20th Anniversary of The Office with Greg Daniels

Summary

Office Ladies: 20th Anniversary of The Office with Greg Daniels – Detailed Summary

Release Date: March 26, 2025

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Introduction

In this landmark 20th-anniversary episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey celebrate two decades since the debut of the beloved sitcom The Office. To mark this significant milestone, they welcome Greg Daniels—the showrunner and creative force behind the American adaptation—to share exclusive insights, memorable anecdotes, and behind-the-scenes stories that only someone intimately involved with the show's creation can provide.

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Reflection on 20 Years

Jenna and Angela open the episode by expressing their excitement about celebrating the 20th anniversary. They acknowledge the heartfelt messages from fans, Bethany C. from Denver and Brianna S. from Athens, who inquired about special plans for the milestone and potential character and crew breakdowns. The hosts affirm their commitment to honoring these requests by dedicating the episode to Greg Daniels.

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Rewatching the Pilot

As the anniversary approached, Jenna and Angela revisited the pilot episode of The Office, diving deep into their experiences from the very beginning. Angela shares, "[04:19] I went back into some of my... I have a journal entry that I can't wait to share with you guys. It is from our very first day of filming." This nostalgic journey unearths personal memories, such as photos from the pilot party and journal entries penned on the first day of shooting, offering listeners a rare glimpse into their initial emotions and experiences on set.

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Unveiling the Casting Descriptions

A highlight of the episode is the revelation of Greg Daniels' original casting descriptions for key characters:

• Michael Scott: Described as "34 to 44," Michael is portrayed as the "manager of the office and the boastful, unreliable narrator of the documentary." Daniels emphasizes Michael's deluded self-image juxtaposed with his underlying childlike enthusiasm.

• Dwight Schrute: Portrayed as an "obsessed survivalist" with "grandiose nerd action fantasies," Dwight is characterized by his lack of social skills and relentless loyalty to Michael, making him both endearing and exasperating.

• Jim Halpert (originally Jim Nelson): An "ordinary, decent person with good taste," Jim is defined by his clever sarcasm and emotional depth, serving as the show's romantic lead with a balance of likability and subtle complexity.

• Pam Beesly: Described as "26 to 29," Pam is the "receptionist and Jim's friend," embodying kindness, vulnerability, and a gentle sarcasm, positioning her as the relatable "girl next door."

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Discussing Audition Tapes

Jenna and Angela delve into the audition process, playing clips from the original auditions. Notably, they share Michael Scott and Dwight Schrute audition pieces, highlighting how Rainn Wilson's portrayal immediately resonated with Greg Daniels. Jenna remarks, "[10:02] Angela: Wow, that's so much information," underscoring the depth and thoughtfulness of the casting process. These clips illustrate the organic chemistry and character authenticity that would define the show's success.

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Interview with Greg Daniels

Greg Daniels joins the conversation, offering an exhaustive look into the creation and evolution of The Office:

• Origins and Adaptation: Daniels recounts his discovery of the original British series and his subsequent decision to adapt it for American audiences. He shares, "[36:42] Greg: Kind of edgy. It'll do something different," reflecting his vision to preserve the show's unique tone despite network constraints.

• Character Development: Emphasizing emotional storytelling, Daniels discusses his strategy of balancing surface-level comedy with deeper emotional arcs. He explains, "[43:23] Greg: Oh, yeah, that's a huge part of the writers room," highlighting the collaborative effort to enrich character narratives.

• Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes: Greg shares humorous and heartfelt stories from the set, including interactions with cast members, challenges in directing, and memorable moments like directing Rainn Wilson's "Talking Heads." He notes, "[56:33] Greg: What'd you watch on TV last night?" illustrating the casual yet intimate relationship between creators and actors.

• Unproduced Scripts and Storylines: Reflecting on episodes that never made it to air, Daniels discusses the "Pet Day" script, expressing both pride and wistfulness about what could have been.

• Final Season and Legacy: Greg speaks passionately about the show's legacy, its meticulous planning, and the enduring impact it has had on both fans and the television landscape.

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Nostalgia and Memories

Jenna and Angela evoke deep nostalgia, reminiscing about their first days on set, the camaraderie among the cast and crew, and the emotional highs and lows of producing a long-running series. Angela shares, "[29:03] Angela: We went and rewatched the pilot... I just remembered all of that," emphasizing the lasting memories that define their bond and the show's enduring charm.

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Final Call Sheet Questions

In a fun and personal segment, Greg answers traditional "call sheet" questions:

1. First Entertainment Job: Greg reminisces about writing jokes for his father's manager act, inspired by Johnny Carson’s style.

2. Languages and Instruments: He humorously admits to using Duolingo for Spanish, French, and Portuguese and expresses a desire to learn the mandolin despite lacking musical talent.

3. Favorite Places: Greg highlights Santa Fe, New Mexico, expressing a whimsical longing to live there and appreciating its magical ambiance.

4. Weekend Activities: Balancing work and family, Greg mentions driving his youngest child around as she learns to drive—transitioning from creative endeavors to parental responsibilities.

5. Favorite Midnight Snack: He shares a unique recipe involving Greek yogurt and self-rising flour to create a versatile dough, demonstrating his inventive culinary side.

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Jenna and Angela express heartfelt gratitude to Greg Daniels for his invaluable contributions and the listeners for their continued support. They reflect on the journey The Office has taken over 20 years, celebrating its legacy and looking forward to future projects like Greg's upcoming series, The Paper. The hosts emphasize the lasting friendships and creative collaborations that have kept the spirit of The Office alive, ensuring its place in television history.

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Notable Quotes

• Angela Kinsey [04:59]: "I went back into some of my... I have a journal entry that I can't wait to share with you guys."

• Greg Daniels [34:16]: "The idea was he was actually really good as a sales Manager. He just shouldn't have been turned into... a complete midlife crisis."

• Jenna Fischer [73:58]: "Your audition was so extraordinary, Jenna, because it was like, wait a second. This is exactly Pam."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the Office Ladies 20th-anniversary episode, highlighting the celebration of The Office, the deep dive into its creation, and the cherished memories shared between the hosts and Greg Daniels.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Lady. Spring is here. I can't believe it, but spring is here. And you know what that means? It means spring fashion.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cute spring outfits. And Macy's has everything you need. They have new arrivals, colors, exciting brands and they're in store and online.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, I was in a Macy's recently and I saw this really cool Levi's denim jacket. I'm gonna confess I didn't buy it. I'm waiting. I might, but it's lovely.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now is the time to get it, lady. Because from March 28th to April 6th, you will get 30% off all the best brands and an extra 15% off of beauty during their spring VIP sale.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'll have you know I did get some Peter Thomas Roth moisturizer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's always nice. Well, you can shop all of the spring trends right now. Lightweight knits, matching sets, woven skirts, Midi and maxi dresses, timeless jewelry. They just have everything. Not only can you shop for clothes, but Macy's is also having their spring sale on shoes, beauty and home decor.

[Jenna Fischer]

Alright, Macy's spring VIP sale is happening March 28 through April 6. Shop now at Macy's.com or in store. I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0 hello there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi everyone. We have such a big episode of Office Lady 6.0 today because, you know, on Monday it was the 20th anniversary of the Office and we thought, well, we have to celebrate it today. This is a big milestone.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lot of you wrote us about this. Bethany C. From Denver, Colorado said, hello, ladies. The first episode of the Office aired in the US on March 24, 2005, which means this year will mark 20 years. Is there a plan to celebrate the big anniversary? And Brianna S. From Athens, Ohio said something I would be interested in as possible episodes now that you're doing character breakdowns. Would be a cast or crew breakdown, for example. How about all about Greg Daniels? Well, Bethany and Briana, you are in luck. Today we are celebrating the 20th anniversary of the Office with special guest Greg Daniels.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so wonderful talking with Greg. We had such a great conversation about 20 years of the Office. Not only did we ask him about how he came to run the show, but we also reflect on so many wonderful memories.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. As this anniversary was approaching, Angela and I, we both went back and we rewatched the pilot episode of the Office. It was so interesting. We were like the people who go back and start from the beginning in a way.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know I watched the original broadcast and then I went and watched the superfan version because I was curious.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did the same thing and we talked with Greg about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you know, guys, I went back into some of my. Well, I guess it's not my digital clutter, it's my actual clutter. I went into my bin of photos. I found the photos from the pilot from the party we went to after the pilot. Some of those, Jenna, we shared in our book the office BFFs. Some we used in a reel that Josh made for us to celebrate the 20th anniversary. Some I didn't put in either. I'm going to share them in stories. But then. You guys, are you ready for this? I went to my journal that is titled, what's it called, Jenna?

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Early Days.

[Angela Kinsey]

Uh huh. I. I have a journal entry that I can't wait to share with you guys. It is from our very first day of filming.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is nuts to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Are you ready?

[Jenna Fischer]

You told me you found this and I can't wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I've been holding onto this for a while because I found it after we had already broke down the pilot and I was like, oh, dang it. So Here we go. September 20, 2004, 7:30am, first day of shooting of the Office. That Is written in blue ink.

[Jenna Fischer]

That means you wrote this on the set of the Office.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. It's going to be very clear. Okay, so at 7:30am I wrote first day of shooting of the Office. That's in blue ink. Next line is in black ink. This is the best job ever. Next line is in red ink. I have all of these pens on my desk, so I'm trying them all out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, next line is in black ink. My call time was 5am so sleepy. I didn't even really fall asleep in the first place. 12:40pm in red ink.

[Jenna Fischer]

New timestamp, new ink.

[Angela Kinsey]

Am so sleepy, but am having the time of my life. 4:35pm in black ink. Am absolutely so punchy. Drew a black heart. Okay, almost asleep with my eyes open. Oh. Just got flowers from my agent. Congrats, etc. Very nice. Okay, next thing. Blue ink. Here is the letterhead from our fake company. Also one of my call sheets.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then you taped it inside. Oh, stop it. It's so cute.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, next entry in black ink. Gosh, I so want this show to be a success. Next entry. I'm already looking forward to Christmas. Is that nuts? It's my favorite time of the year. I can't wait to decorate.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow, that was a hard pivot.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's what was on your mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, are you ready? Final entry from the first day. My pantyhose are cutting me in half. How do women wear these all the time? Seriously? Question mark, exclamation point. I want to ditch them. Exclamation point.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you did.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I did. There you go. First day on the set of the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's pretty amazing, Sam.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't believe you didn't pop on to give me a hard time about all the different color ink.

[Greg Daniels]

I didn't want to interrupt, but it was killing me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why was I so excited about all my different pins?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know.

[Greg Daniels]

I like to think it's your different moods.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Alison Jones found something in her clutter as well, and she sent it to me out of the blue. She found the casting descriptions for the main cast. These were written by Greg Daniels, and I thought it would be so fun to read them.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait to hear these. I knew you got them, but I haven't heard them yet. And I thought what would be fun is, as you read one, I would play some of the audition tapes that are online, and we can go back and forth.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it. All right, let's start With Michael Scott, here is how he is described. 34 to 44, Michael Scott is the manager of the office and the boastful, unreliable narrator of the documentary. He is a legend in his own mind who, who thinks he is a comic genius, fountain of business wisdom and his employee's cool friend. He believes in his version of reality with the sincere enthusiasm of a nine year old child thinking he can do karate. However, the documentary reveals the truth. He is a buffoon. A pathetic mid level bureaucrat overdue for a midlife crisis, whom decent people pity as a sad little man when his inappropriate behavior hasn't appalled them into silence. Horribly overconfident, he is a train wreck of bad leadership characteristics, only redeemed a bit by his childish enthusiasm. Despite continual proofs that he's an ass, he clings shamelessly to his deluded self image like a shipwreck survivor clinging to a scrap of wood. And then it says, we need an actor who can play a juicy comic character. Someone with an expressive face to get a laugh on, a smug look. Someone with the heart of a nine year old, but who plays between 34 and 44. Someone whose face and physique do not command natural respect, that is not buff and handsome, boyish, not rugged, capable of high spirited, sunny energy as well as small specific acting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow, that's so much information.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here is Steve reading for Michael. This is just a portion of his audition, but let's hear it.

[Greg Daniels]

Actually, people say I am the best boss they've ever had. The world's greatest boss given to me. They go, michael, we have never worked in a place like this before. I mean, you are a riot. You get the best out of us. And I say, well, que serras are off, you know, and if it's true, awesome. What is queso Ross? Well, it's kind of, it's, it, it's kind of a non sequitur. I've been told it's kind of, you know, kind of filler words. Have you ever heard of filler words? It's kind of like that, you know, Que sera, sera. If I had to define what it meant, I'd say, what context did I use? It just son.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn'T that so great? And I love that you can hear Ken Kwafus.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, what's so crazy about it is that it starts and it just sounds like an episode of the Office. Like it just sounds like he's. It doesn't sound like an audition at all. I know, but then you see how our auditions went, which is that we would do the prepared material and then Ken would just throw a question at.

[Angela Kinsey]

Us, like, what's K. Serraska?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, exactly. It's a filler word. Yeah, it's just one of those filler words. So great. Are you ready to hear about Dwight Schrute?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here is how Greg described him in the breakdown. Dwight is the team leader and Michael Scott's sidekick. He really admires Michael Scott, although it is unclear if this is due to Scott's personality or Dwight's officious inclination to look up to whoever is above him in the hierarchy. Dwight is obsessed with survival, personal security tactics, and other grandiose nerd action fantasies. Probably because he got his ass kicked a lot as a kid. A volunteer policeman on the weekends, he takes any excuse to go on a power trip in the office. Yet his survival training appears to be more Gilligan's island than Green Berets. Although aggressively horny, he has no idea how to behave with women. His unpleasant social habits and annoying personality suggest an unsocialized loner, a sort of Caliban or Golem. If stuck in an elevator, he would probably start drinking his own urine after 10 minutes. I have just like, side note. Just this idea that Dwight gets stuck in an elevator goes all the way back to the breakdown. I love that. Like how Dwight would behave in an elevator. All right, going on. He said his lack of social skills render him the butt of office jokes and thus unbearable. If Scott is redeemed by having the heart of a nine year old, then Dwight can perhaps be pitied for his interior. Teenage geek. We need someone who can be believable as a geek. Someone who has no desire to be likable or please an audience except through total identification with his character.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is so Rain. I know. I have to think the minute Rainn walked in the room, they were like, well, crap, that's Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Someone who can seem reasonable to himself while saying insane things. Who understands the comedy of playing it straight. Late twenties to thirties.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh my gosh. Okay, well, now we have to hear Rain auditioning for Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Urine is sterile, okay? That's a fact.

[Greg Daniels]

Did you know that when you are in the field, you can clean a wound by whizzing on it? True. It is in the first aid guidebook.

[Jenna Fischer]

From the American Red Cross Association. So it's totally unfair for me to get in trouble for whizzing in the sink. Amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I know there's so much more footage, but that's what you can pull from online and you hear him immediately as Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

I Felt like as all of us. And this was true when I went back just now and rewatched the pilot. I think Rain as Dwight was the most fully realized of all of us from day one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Day one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. All right, next up is the breakdown for Jim Nelson. The original name was Jim Nelson. Jim is a sales rep in the office who has to share a workspace with Dwight. He is an ordinary, decent person with good taste leading a life of quiet desperation. He likes people, is a good listener, and wanted to be a psychologist.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

His clever sarcasm and takes to the camera are little defense against the vulgarity that surrounds him. Although they make Pam the receptionist laugh. You wish he would be more assertive in love and at work. After playing with Pam, his chief enjoyment in the office is using his superior social and emotional skills to prank Dwight. Although you get the sense that when he indulges in his immature impulses, he is letting the environment defeat him. We need someone likable around 30 who can get laughs by raising an eyebrow or doing a take to the camera. He needs to be pleasant looking enough for you to root for him to get the girl without being a hunk in any way. Although hidden by his ordinariness and bad haircut, Jim is the romantic lead they.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wrote in Bad haircut. Yeah. All right, here is John auditioning for Jim.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm a sales rep, which means that my job is to speak to clients on the phone about quantity, type of.

[Greg Daniels]

Paper.

[Jenna Fischer]

Whether we can supply it to them, whether they can pay for it, and I'm boring myself just talking, but to be honest, it's. I mean, that just sounds like it's from the show. Honestly, I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was an audition tape.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, finally, here is Pam Beasley's breakdown. 26 to 29 was the age range, and it says Pam is the receptionist and Jim's friend. Pam is decent, reasonable and friendly. She has the manner of a nice kindergarten teacher or a future mom. She is an ordinary woman with a sense of humor. She allows her loutish boss and fiance to push her around some, but she can exhibit flashes of working class toughness in protecting her friends. She's not cynical or a smartass, although her way of disagreeing is a gentle sarcasm. She's not arrogant or glamorous or overtly sexy, but she is cute compared to the other office workers. And she loves to play with Jim, who understands her better than Roy, her fiance. Jim and Pam probably would not have met without being thrown together in the office, but they have become true friends and their flirting is more Serious than they acknowledge. Pam needs to be soft and kind and vulnerable. Pretty too, but definitely not a head turner. More of a likable, accessible, pretty. A working world girl next door type who can deliver sarcasm with a light touch, yet a touch of the tragic waif. Pam is the other romantic lead.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh man. When you watch your audition tape, when you watch the pilot, Jenna, you got Pam right away. You just did. And let's hear you audition for Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

I hope they get rid of me because then I might actually get off my ass and do something because I don't think it's many little girls dreams to grow up and be a receptionist. And I don't know what I'm going to do. But whatever it is, it's got to be a career move, not just another arbitrary job. Jim's advice was that it's better to be at the bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than halfway up one you don't. Yeah, I remember doing that.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's not quoting Roy even in the audition.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, next up, I have two batches of shorter clips of multiple characters auditioning. We have BJ for Ryan, Craig for Daryl, David for Roy, Dave for Todd, and Melora for Jan. Let's hear them.

[Greg Daniels]

Okay, I'm into foreign films. I read the New Yorker, love Shakespeare. Did you happen to see the Dunder Mifflin flag out in the parking lot? Isn't it inspiring? I think I want it on my coffin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hey, baby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Uh, yeah. Would you mind if I went out for a drink with these guys?

[Greg Daniels]

Uh, no, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's gotta hear let's go home.

[Greg Daniels]

It's a gimmick, I think. Really? You know, Casual Friday. One day you let your hair down. That's pathetic, Michael.

[Jenna Fischer]

Go on. Can we not talk about downsizing? Don't we have to sooner or later?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, but right now what we have to decide is do you full Stanford people in into this branch or vice versa? Those are just quick little snippets of each person auditioning.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then what's the other batch? Do you have the rest of you guys?

[Angela Kinsey]

I have Brian for Kevin, Oscar for Oscar, Angela for Pam, Leslie for Stanley and Kate for Meredith.

[Greg Daniels]

What'd you watch on TV last night?

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't. I rented a movie.

[Greg Daniels]

I watched that special victim svu. Never seen that friggin repeat. Well, that sucks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Doesn't.

[Greg Daniels]

Not for me. I hadn't seen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is a question of trust.

[Greg Daniels]

It's communication.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do you trust me? Do you trust me? Yes or no?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I trust you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like that because it's not often that you get something that's both romantic and thrifty. So there's that going. I said if corporal wants to come here and interfere. You ain't messing with my chillin. I am if anyone's going to.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, but Michael, what if they do downsize here?

[Angela Kinsey]

Not gonna happen.

[Greg Daniels]

It could be out of your hands.

[Angela Kinsey]

Michael, was there anything that you wanted to add to the agenda?

[Jenna Fischer]

That was it. Kate just got one line. Is there anything you wanted to add to the agenda?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, they're just little clips. Our auditions were much longer. We improvised a whole bunch and did all these different take. But that's what we have access to. And I don't have me auditioning for Angela Martin. We might have to hit up Dave Rogers for that when we do All About Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, we should. Let's see if we can get ahold of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know that would be going into the archives for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well listen everyone, we're gonna take a break and when we come back we have a fantastic interview with showrunner Greg Daniels.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, you do. What are you going to say?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, well, it's about reaching the right audience lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I believe a bad example of business to business marketing would be when I get served like an ad online for something that's clearly not for me. For example, when I was getting shampoo ads and I had no hair.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh yeah, right.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Bad marketing.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. So you can try it yourself.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Greg Daniels.

[Angela Kinsey]

Welcome, Greg.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here you are.

[Angela Kinsey]

You were on the regular Office Ladies and now you're on Office Ladies 6.0.

[Greg Daniels]

How did you jump to 6.0 instead of 2.0?

[Jenna Fischer]

Greg.

[Angela Kinsey]

Greg. This is a Deep Cut.

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, that's a joke from the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

This interview is not going well.

[Greg Daniels]

So wait, what show is this?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think I saw this in Hot Girl. Michael says that Katie.

[Angela Kinsey]

Katie is Pam 6.0, right?

[Greg Daniels]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what? This is really making me question why you've been doing that. No, why? We named our show A Deep Cut that is so deep that even the creator does not recall.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like it. I like the mystery for those that don't know. No, it's not. We are so thrilled to have you here. This is a big occasion in the world of The Office. This is a huge anniversary that we've come here together to celebrate. It is the 20th anniversary of the Office.

[Greg Daniels]

Crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Crazy.

[Greg Daniels]

Is it crazy, though? Now, here's the thing. I realized that for a lot of times that people would say that. I think the sort of expected thing is like, oh, I can't believe so much time has gone by. Da, da, da, da. But then I was questioning, like, that didn't really sit right with me. And I was like, no, I think it feels like it's been a long time to me. So I don't know. How does it feel to you?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I think it's a combo platter. I think sometimes it feels like a whole different existence. You know, it was such a chapter, so long ago. And then sometimes we will hear a clip or revisit an episode, and I'll remember, you know, what we were doing that week, and then you're right back there. So it's a little bit like going through an old family album of photos. In a way.

[Greg Daniels]

I had a weird experience because we are doing season 14 and 15 of King of the Hill.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Greg Daniels]

If you can imagine that. And that's a much older show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

And so I was writing for those characters and, you know, and I hadn't really thought about them since before our show started. And I was just so happy to kind of talk to the characters again. It was very kind of hippy, dippy thing going on in my head, but I was like, oh, my gosh, Peggy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, that's right.

[Greg Daniels]

I haven't talked to you in ages.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. Jenna said that one time you said, you know, we have all stayed in touch, you know, the cast. We have this text thread. But you were like, I miss, like, Meredith and Kevin, and I miss Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I see rain, but I don't.

[Greg Daniels]

Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Get to talk to Dwight again. I'd love to talk to that guy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Some weird dreams. You just gotta eat, like, weird, cheesy things right before bed.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, I do have dreams where we're shooting again.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And I'm back on set, and we're all there. And sometimes the dream is like, we're making the show, but then sometimes the dream is that we've created a reunion show. It's like, present day. So I've had both of these dreams.

[Greg Daniels]

And is one of them a nightmare?

[Jenna Fischer]

Actually, the reunion one's a nightmare. So take that for what it's worth. It's usually me. It's usually wrapped up in that idea of, like, oh, my gosh. I said yes to this, and I forgot to prepare, and I don't remember how to be Pam. Know what I'm doing.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, I feel like it's incredibly stressful to have a show that you really care about on the air because it can go south at the last second and everybody can be mad and you can ruin it. And it was such a nice feeling for me when we finally stopped producing new episodes of the show. So I was like, okay, it's safe.

[Angela Kinsey]

Did it. Did it. Put it on the shelf, Put to bed? Yeah, yeah. I still remember when I. You know, one of the things Jen and I did for this episode is we went and rewatched the pilot, and we went and watched the superfan cut of the pilot because neither of us had seen that. And I still like when I watched it. What came back to me was that feeling when we would walk on the stage in the morning, like before we started filming. And we'd walk down that corridor and we'd go in the back way, you know, past hair and makeup. And then you were all of a sudden in the Dunder Mifflin offices. I just remembered all of that. How I would walk to my desk in the morning.

[Greg Daniels]

Are you picturing the offices from the pilot in season one?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, I'm picturing. I always picture the ones where we filmed the majority of the time. Although I do remember that office because Oscar and I made such asses of ourselves. And when we filmed in Culver City, I think I've told this story before, that he and I decided to walk down the stairs, you know. Cause we filmed upstairs to our trailers, and we decided to walk, swinging our arms, left to right, left to right, and kicking our legs. And we made these noises, and we were being so silly. And behind us was Terry Weinberg. And like all the network producers, network suits and people we didn't even know, we just knew they were important because they all went into the room to chat and. And Oscar was like, oh, God, we're fired. We're fired. So I do remember that building very clearly, but I can remember what it felt like to walk on set. Do you remember what it felt like?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. That is something I wish I could do. I wish that. And to me, it's still there. I've never been back to those same stages. I know that there's, like, game shows and stuff that shows, I think Always.

[Greg Daniels]

Sunny in Philadelphia shot there.

[Jenna Fischer]

They have. Yeah. Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Which is weird. Do you remember in season one, and this might have been the pilot But I remember that to get to the stage, you had to go up a couple of stairs or down a couple of stairs. And there was a very low concrete ceiling lintel at the doorway. And I would come running onto the set to give a note and bash my head against this lintel. And then eventually they put a big rubber bumper there that said like Greg Daniels memorial head bumper or something so that I wouldn't knock myself out.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

Trying to rush in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, I never had that problem because I never will.

[Greg Daniels]

That's not a problem you have to worry about.

[Angela Kinsey]

I clear a doorway very easily.

[Jenna Fischer]

When's the last time you watched an episode of the Office start to finish?

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, I watch them periodically. It comes up because, as you probably know, I'm doing the next documentary from the same documentary crew, this new show, the Paper. Yes, the Paper. And so a lot of times we'll have some things that we wanted to do differently and then they may not be 100% working out. And I'll go back and I'll check the original show and we'll be like, oh, that's why we had the blinds that are 2 inches apart, not 1 inch apart, so you can see people's faces and things like that.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's my shots.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. Yeah. I love going back and watching the show. And then of course, you know, I have a 15 year old and she doesn't know what it is and she's.

[Jenna Fischer]

Watching it for the first time.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. So sometimes I'll watch it with her. And yeah, she's just plowing through all that era, though. She just finished New Girl. She just started Arrested Development.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's just like, yeah, that's a pretty.

[Jenna Fischer]

Great time in television comedy, actually.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, we did that. Part of our Pandemic watch with our kids was Friends and then the Office and Isabel just turned to me one day and said, mom, you're so mean to everybody. When we were watching the Office, I was like, I know, but it's not me. But yeah, that was kind of hard for her to reconcile.

[Jenna Fischer]

My kids still haven't watched the Office. We're watching Modern Family right now.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes, we did watch that too.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I wondered, like, would. Okay, now that you kind of have this, like, there's their version of Talking Heads. And I know they speak to the camera. I'm like, maybe now they'll want to watch the Office. But they haven't expressed interest yet.

[Angela Kinsey]

They'll get there.

[Greg Daniels]

I found that when you remove the jealousy of them winning the Emmy every year, this show is really great. It really improved my experience watching Modern Family. Yeah. Recently.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know we did go up against them a lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

We really did.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, well, Greg, one of the questions we always ask our guests, how did it come about that you got your job creating the Office?

[Greg Daniels]

Yes. Okay. So basically what happened was I had been doing King of the Hill, and it was very good experience for me, and it was probably around season eight, and I was not really needed there, and my deal at 20th was up, and so I was a free agent, and I was looking around at all sorts of different things to be the next project. And I had some real interesting meetings about the Muppet show, which someone else did later, and a couple of other things. And my agent sent me a tape, VHS tape, called the Office Before Christmas break, like probably 2003, December maybe. And it was a little bit of a boring title, and I didn't watch it. And then so he called me, like, January 3rd, and said, all right, I'm going to send it to the next guy if you don't want to do it. And I was like, hang on, hang on. Let me watch it and I'll watch it tonight. And I started it, and I just fell in love with it. The first season of six episodes, and I stayed up late watching all of them. And then I was like, this stuff is absolutely brilliant. It doesn't feel like American tv, but I desperately want to meet the people who made it and just try and figure out how it works, because it's the best thing that I had seen. So I ended up having a meeting with Ricky and Steven when they came to the US to interview people to adapt it. And it turned out that I had written Ricky Gervais favorite Simpsons episode, which was called Homer Badman. And so that was good, kind of getting us off on the right foot. And a lot of the stuff that I brought to King of the Hill had resonance with them in terms of the realism of the show and the sincerity, I guess, at times. And so we kind of hit it off. And so I said, okay, maybe I'll adapt this. And at the time, we definitely thought it would be probably on HBO or something like that. And Kevin Riley was interested, and he was at fx, and he very much got the show and was enthusiastic about it. So we were like, all right, well, FX would work. That's pretty cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

It has an edge. Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Kind of edgy. It'll do something different. And so I signed on to Adapt it. And then Kevin went to NBC and he still wanted it. And then Silverman was like, yeah, yeah, let's do it for NBC. And I was like, you know, it doesn't feel like NBC. You know, NBC was multicam. And so going into it, I was kind of like, all right, well, if we do it for NBC, we probably won't win, probably won't be successful, but maybe we'll, like, nudge the ship of comedy in a direction that I would rather see it float in than the complete multicam direction. And, yeah, so that's how I got into it. And then the other thing was, I did not think that the original show was ever going to air in America, because when you think of other British adaptations like all in the Family, no one's ever seen the British show that all in the Family was based on. So I just figured it was obvious that they wouldn't run the British original about two months before we aired, which they did. That was scary.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'm curious, looking back from your perspective, when did you know that our version was going to stick? Or when did you feel like we were sort of a hit show, I guess.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, that all happened season two. I don't know if you remember the pilot, but I had a little. Some words after the pilot, and we all went out to a bar, I think when it stopped shooting. Do you remember that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, and we said goodbye.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I said, I'll see you on the next job.

[Angela Kinsey]

I actually found pictures from that. And I was telling Jenna this because when we did our book, we went through and looked at a ton of pictures and we found some from the pilot and things like that. But I actually found pictures from that bar that we all went to.

[Greg Daniels]

And I remember thinking, well, that was such a fun experience. It was completely worth. Doesn't need to be successful for me to have found happiness in shooting that pilot and meeting everybody. And it was super good. And I remember also saying something similar at the end of season one. I was like, all right, this will.

[Jenna Fischer]

Probably tank our six episodes of season one, our very short season one.

[Greg Daniels]

But it was very exciting in season two because it just kept going up and up and up in season two. And by the end of season two, I think, like on Casino Night, we were kind of a successful show by then, I think.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do you attribute that to in season two? Do you think it's changes we made? Was it just people getting used to it? Like, what do you think it was?

[Greg Daniels]

Well, from my perspective, Kevin Riley wasn't sure he was gonna Pick up season two. And there was a lot of drama before the upfronts for that year where I don't know if this is. I think this is known in some places, but the company kind of lowered the budget and stripped everybody's bonuses out. And they really did a lot of belt tightening to bring us back. And I had to go pitch a new direction to Kevin before he would greenlight the next season. And this actually does go back a little bit to King of the Hill again, because what I had done at King of the Hill was say, okay, Hank has a lot of unlikable aspects to him, but I'm going to build all these likable features to him to, like, undo whatever anybody's misgivings might be like. If he maybe appears a little misogynistic at times, then I'm going to make him super supportive of his wife and also, you know, a complete Boy Scout prude when it comes to his niece that's living with him and, you know, various things like that. So going into it, I was like, all right. I was very, very so much in love with the original British show that we didn't make too many changes to Michael's character in the first season. So I was kind of like, I think I know what. I know what I need to do. I need to do the same thing I did with Hank. And I had a list of different things that would rehabilitate Michael's character in the eyes of the audience. And they became maybe the first six or eight episodes. So the emotional plot of the Dundees is, you know, the staff is very irritated by Michael, but if somebody outside the staff criticizes him, they'll defend him. And so that's sort of like a family dynamic kind of thing where it solves the problem of, is he really hated by his staff? No, he's not. He's, you know, they have some sort of family feeling towards him. And then there was booze. Cruise was from my initial napkin that I went in to pitch Kevin Reilly was let Michael give some really good advice to somebody that the audience really wants him to say. So when Michael tells Jim, never give up, that's exactly what the audience wanted somebody to tell Jim. So the idea that Michael has that insight is good for Michael in the coup. He's actually pretty good at sales, so he's not a total incompetent.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Greg Daniels]

The idea was like, there's something called the Peter Principle. Do you know that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. So the idea was he was actually really good as a sales Manager. He just shouldn't have been turned into. Promoted into the general manager or the branch manager. So, you know, different things like that. I had maybe six or eight things that I thought would fix his character over the course of the season. So from my perspective, a lot of it is these things were chipping away at whatever the problems were and kind of making a new version of Michael where he was more of a, you know, exasperating uncle than, like, an evil boss.

[Angela Kinsey]

A jerky boss. Yeah. I love hearing about that process of you laying out the emotional plot for a character. That's the stuff I always find so fascinating. Did you do that with multiple characters on the show? Did you know what their emotional plot was, or were you charting that?

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, yeah, that's a huge part of the writers room. Yeah. And one of the big things with Pam, for instance, is, okay, what's going on with Pam? What are the obstacles to Pam and Jim getting together? Right. So the show starts, and the obstacle is Roy, and she's engaged. And then he takes his shot, and she's not ready to break up with Roy or to cheat or anything, so she turns him down. And then Jim goes to Connecticut, and by the time he comes back, he has a new girlfriend, which, from his perspective, is okay because he was turned down. And, you know, Pam is watching him with Karen. And, you know, the big obstacle at the second half of that season was sort of Pam's confidence level and does she get the courage to say what she wants. And in beach games, when she walks across the coals, that's, you know, that's a moment that was like, a year in preparation because it's getting her to feel enough.

[Angela Kinsey]

Emboldened.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. So cool.

[Greg Daniels]

There's a lot of that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then my writing predilection is to have an emotional story that is extremely well worked out, but is what I would call like, underwater and only surfaces at one moment in the show to do its job and then disappears underwater again. But you have to get that submarine at the right place. You know, you have to plot its path all the way when it's not noticed by the audience, you know, all the way through the episode moments.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

And so one of the problems with, for me doing rewrites is sometimes you forget, because you're just looking at the surface of the plot. You're forgetting that some of these lines are also charting a course for the submarine. And you're like, I got a better joke. And you switch the joke to something Else that works for the surface plot but doesn't help the submarine get where it needs to go.

[Angela Kinsey]

So you're constantly balancing the sort of surface story with the heart story that's lying underneath. A little bit, yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Before King of the Hill, I had the experience of working on other shows where they didn't take the emotional storyline very seriously. And a lot of comedy writers at that time had a term which they used called treacle cutter. And the idea was that at the end of an episode, there'd be some treacle that was some little piece of, like, aww, hug. And then that they needed to have a joke after that called the treacle cutter because they were so disgusted that they had just tugged on the heartstrings, done some sort of treacle. And I was like, well, you don't have to be embarrassed if it isn't treacle. You know, if it actually works and you actually feel something, then you don't need a little treacle cutter, you know? But it's a lot of underappreciated effort to put all those little beats in.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's so many good Jim and Pam ones, too, when you rewatch it. One of my favorites is when they're just listening to the voicemails at the end of the day. That was one of my favorites.

[Greg Daniels]

I think Business School is possibly my favorite episode, but I think that one is such a great Pam Michael moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

At the art show.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, at the art show. When he's the only one who is really enthusiastic about her art.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. He's the one that showed up. He's also the only person that knew Sprinkle who got upset about Sprinkles.

[Greg Daniels]

I just watched that. Yeah, yeah. In Fun Run.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. He did get the name wrong a second time.

[Angela Kinsey]

He got it right. He got it right the first time.

[Greg Daniels]

He did.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then he was back to Michael, but he literally turned and goes, oh, no. He's like. He was heartbroken for her.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is there any storyline or card that was on the wall that you didn't get to do that? Who still wish.

[Greg Daniels]

We have that whole Pet Day script.

[Jenna Fischer]

We have a whole script that didn't get produced.

[Angela Kinsey]

Can you share a little bit about what that scri story was all about?

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. So we had. I think it would have been season one. Right. So I think we had only enough budget for five episodes, but we had enough script budget for six. So I wrote an extra episode called Pet Day where Michael encourages everybody to bring their pets in. And I think Dwight brought in a demi wolf. Anyway, at the end of the day, I was like, I'm going to make sure all the writers get a script, and I'll take that one and shelve it and maybe it'll come back later. And it never came back later.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have to imagine if you were Kent Sibornak and you got handed Pet Day, he was just like, how am I? Because I do remember this script. How do I get this demi wolf? But then also there was a bird that was in it, and this was gonna be a lot of animals on set.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. I think a lot of people would probably have said unproducible.

[Angela Kinsey]

I Hope Angela had 13 of her cats there.

[Greg Daniels]

I gotta go back and look at that script. I know she had cats.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, who knew almost every single of Angela Martin's cats was Billie Eilish.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes. She's a huge fan.

[Angela Kinsey]

She came on the show, we played an office trivia game with her, and, I mean, I was struggling to name them all, and she got them. I was like, wow, that's. That's amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are there any celebrities that you've met that have just gone on and on and on about the Office that maybe surprised you?

[Greg Daniels]

Well, I love that your premise is that I'm meeting a lot of celebrities.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're at all the fancy parties. In our mind, you're out there hopnubbing.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. No, no. I mean, I heard somewhere that Spielberg really liked the show. Like Hugh D Abates.

[Angela Kinsey]

No way.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is news to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Greg Daniels]

So that's good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna has a good one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Tell the story about Angelina Jolie.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, tell it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I was at a party and Angelina Jolie was there with a few of her kids, and I clocked her, and I noticed out of my peripheral vision that she was walking right toward me. And I was like, who's behind me? Who's she walking to? And she came right up to me and introduced herself. She said, hi, my name's Angie, and I just wanted to tell you my family, we are such a huge family.

[Greg Daniels]

And you're like, no autographs. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was like, get out of here. She was so nice and warm, and I was like, what? And she said, I'm here with my kids and we watch it together, and they're huge fans. Would you mind saying hello to them? And I said, yes. And I walked over and talked to them all, and she was so nice. She was so nice. She was like, oh, we should get lunch sometime or we should. And I was like, yes, of course we should. But then I'm Like, I don't know how to follow up on that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Is that like a real let's have lunch, or is that kind of like, she said it Party chit chat.

[Jenna Fischer]

She said it twice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, then you should have gotten her information.

[Jenna Fischer]

But also, one time, Michael Douglas offered me his house in Spain. In Spain to vacation at because I did a movie with him. He said it three times on two different days. So, like, the first day he said it twice. He's like, oh, Catherine and I have a house in Spain. You can use it. And the next day, when Lee was visiting, he said, did Jenna tell you about our place in Spain? You two are welcome to use it.

[Greg Daniels]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

And yet I have not vacationed at his house in Spain. I just. I don't know how to.

[Angela Kinsey]

How do you transition that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, how do I make that happen?

[Angela Kinsey]

I would have followed up on that also. Maybe if you just have houses in Spain and whatnot, you're very gracious about it. Maybe you're just like, go to my house in Monaco. I don't know.

[Greg Daniels]

Maybe there's a tax reason. It's like, look at that.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're so cynical. You're like, what's in it for Michael?

[Angela Kinsey]

I can write it off. Okay, I have a question. Since we're reflecting on 20 years, we were debating about including this question, and we got tickled about it. So just take it with a grain of salt. Is there a storyline or episode that you think we maybe jumped the shark with?

[Greg Daniels]

When you look back, oh, my goodness.

[Jenna Fischer]

We almost jumped a horse over Niagara Falls. Yes, but we did it that we know we came very close.

[Greg Daniels]

Boy. Well, I mean, the notion of jump the shark for me is like, there's a dividing line between the show was good and then the show was kind of cheesy.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I think that's not my intention with the question.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, I think it's more like, was there a moment or a decision where you're like, eh, if I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have gone down that road.

[Greg Daniels]

I'm pretty proud of the show. I'm not going to go there. And also, I think that I learned on King of the Hill, I was very worried about. We had an episode where. I know I've been talking a lot about King of the Hill on this Office Ladies podcast, but we had an episode where all of Hank and his friends became volunteer firemen, and they were just like, the Three Stooges go to a firehouse. And I was completely sweating it because there was no subterranean Emotional story on that one. It was just all goofball stuff. And I was like, well, that was it. We broke the show. And then a whole bunch of people were like, that's my favorite episode. And I was like, oh, okay. It's just a different. It's just slightly different gear. Yeah. And once you have established what your main gear is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

It's kind of fun to do something a little broader or a little weirder or something. Cause there's gonna be some people who. That's the standout.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you're sitting across from two people who love the show and think it's perfect.

[Greg Daniels]

So what would your. Yeah. Let's ask. You've been doing the in depth rewatch. Where did we go wrong?

[Jenna Fischer]

There's one episode that I would remove. I feel bad saying it. It's our clip show that we were forced to do. Oh, oh, remember that episode? It's like. I don't even know if you call it an episode. It was called the Banker.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wouldn't.

[Greg Daniels]

It felt like it was like a wraparound.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was like a couple minutes of a wraparound. NBC made us do is what I'm feeling.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. I don't remember the backstory on that.

[Jenna Fischer]

It doesn't. Well, and the thing is, is that the part that was original where this banker comes in to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, and he's fantastic. The guy that played the banker.

[Jenna Fischer]

Great actor. And he has some scenes with Toby that then justify all of the flashing back. All that stuff is great. It was an interesting premise for an episode which is that this insurance bank. Right. He had to come in and he's like, do you have any HR problems? Like this idea that Toby, who knows everything wrong with the Office is having to kind of protect the office. I would have loved for the whole episode to be that. But instead we had to keep going to all these clips. So I think it doesn't. That is the one that. It's hard to even say it was an episode of the Office. But.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. It almost doesn't register. I don't even remember it, really.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I think otherwise, in watching all the episodes, I don't think we ever jumped the shark. I don't think that there's. I think we did just have different gears. And then in rewatching the show, when we get to one of those episodes with a different gear, I am excited about it.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. And again, people will come up and they'll, you know, they'll love that kind of stuff. And the other thing about the show is because of the Cold opens. And because of the subplots, for me, there's memorable moments that I have no idea what episode they're in. You know, like, parkour cold open. Like, I don't know where what episode that's in, what season that's in. Yeah, it's just such a great, you know, sketch comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

We get such great cold opens. And, you know, we're watching the webisodes now as well, and the webisodes are great. I just love learning new things about characters, but that ring true, but maybe you just haven't seen them as much even. There was this very funny one where Gabe is so incredibly jealous that Oscar has a blog on the Saber page that Joe Bennett loves and. And Gabe just covets Joe Bennett's favor, so he tries to start a podcast. And it just cracked me up.

[Greg Daniels]

You know what's so crazy? I can't. I forgot her name was Jo Bennett. And I'm working with Joe Bennett, the animator now. He does a show called Common side Effects with office writer Steve Healy. The two of them created it for the animation company that I do with Mike Judge. And so I've been working with and talking to Joe Bennett for such a long time, I forgot that's her name.

[Angela Kinsey]

You did have a funny expression come on your face when I was pitching it. All right, I have another question for you. If you were a character on the show, Greg, which character?

[Greg Daniels]

I'm a character on the show. I'm Michael's neighbor.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're the yarn salesman.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're the yarn salesman. We loved it. So if you weren't the yarn salesman that lives next to Michael in the condo, who would you identify most with, and what main cast character would you be?

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, well, look, you know, I'm not going to pretend that I have the necessary charisma to be the star of the show, but as somebody who, in the social world of the Office, was the boss and was previously the boss on the prior show that I did, I tend to identify with boss problems and the way people interact with Michael. So, for instance, the episode where Michael has to fire someone on Halloween but still wants to be friends with them, you know what I mean? Like, that's a real boss point of view kind of a storyline. And, you know, just sort of. Also, Steve and I are pretty much the same age, and so, like, the idea that, you know, he's super into. I want to pump you up, you know. Yeah. All these things that are, like, you know, hit exactly right for somebody of that age group. So I would. I would probably identify with Michael Foreign.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

I know it's early in the year, but we're already talking about our summer family trip. And, you know, we like to Airbnb.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know this well.

[Angela Kinsey]

We like to have a kitchen, and I like to be able to walk out in my robe in the morning and have a cup of tea. And as you call it, Jenna, I like a long Runway.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, you know, Lee is working in Oklahoma right now, and we're going to come out to visit him, and he got us a really nice Airbnb to stay in as a whole family that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is so nice so that we could.

[Jenna Fischer]

Spread out and everybody could sleep well.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then you feel like you're at home even though you're in a different lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't want to sleep in the same room as my whole family. That's why I can't do hotels great anymore.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, because you all bunk up and share a bathroom.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I like the space.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like a refrigerator, a real refrigerator. I like to have snacks, as you know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do know this. Yes, you do.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't want to call room service. I want them right there.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, we tried. Definitely had all these great plans to go shoot there. The weird thing about Scranton is it's remarkably beautiful in a way that Panorama City has trouble, you know, measuring up to it. Cause there's beautiful trees all around Scranton.

[Angela Kinsey]

And there's that lake. It's really pretty.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. And, you know, and it was. It was a big deal in the 1800s. So the buildings in the downtown are like these cool stone buildings. And it's just got, like a lot of beauty and character that we shortchanged it. But I did try to shoot there, and part of it is the difficulty of starting the season with Scranton or something like that. It was like you couldn't put it in the middle of the season because it would just blow the whole schedule up. And so it either had to be the very beginning or the very end. And I don't know, it just escaped us. Parks and Rec went to England to shoot one season. And the only way to do that was to put it. Like, the first three days of shooting for the season were in England, and then it would get salted in later.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, like I said, I've been watching Modern Family with my family.

[Greg Daniels]

Do they go to Hawaii?

[Jenna Fischer]

They have gone to Hawaii. They have. I believe they've gone to Australia. They're going a lot of places.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, we went to Long beach and.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, you got to go to Niagara.

[Jenna Fischer]

I got to go to Niagara. And that was actually really cool. I mean, that was. I don't know if I would have gone to Niagara Falls otherwise in my life. And it's one of the wonders of the world. So that was pretty cool.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Steve went to New York, like, with the skeleton crew.

[Greg Daniels]

We had that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Greg Daniels]

That was super fun. I was in the van for that. That was a crazy thing because our permits, you know, we didn't. We weren't like a movie where we would shut down the street and get all these extras to come in and pretend to be real New Yorkers. We were in two vans. And basically a van would roll up to Times Square. Steve would jump out, Randall would jump out with the camera. And I think I directed that episode. And so I was out there just.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sort of guerrilla style.

[Greg Daniels]

And it would be guerrilla style until somebody went, it's a 40 year old virgin. And then suddenly, because it was right after the movie came out, crowds would start to jam in on us and we'd be like, well, we got what we got, and we'd jump back in the van and we'd go to someplace else. It was extremely exciting shoot. And I kept telling the line producers afterwards, no matter what situation it was in, I was like, why can't we just jump in a van and go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Shoot it like New York and just.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hop out really quick?

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I remember one year, because the St. Patrick's Day parade is so famous in Scranton, there was always a lot of talk about us incorporating that parade into an episode. There were so many pitches about someone being in the parade or whatever it was. And I remember one year, Greg, you told me me, you said, I think we're going to do it. The problem is that, you know, we can't shoot the real parade because then the episode will come out after St. Patrick's Day. So if we want it to be this.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. We'd have to shoot it like in August or something or.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you told me that Scranton agreed to move their parade to August for us. And I was like, the whole city is going to make a fake parade parade for us.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's pretty amazing.

[Greg Daniels]

The city is super cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

And actually, I'm still in touch with Tim Holmes and Michelle Dempsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah, Remember them? Of course.

[Greg Daniels]

And they're having a 20th anniversary exhibit in the Everhart Museum coming up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's fantastic.

[Greg Daniels]

Museum in Scranton.

[Angela Kinsey]

We'll share that in our Instagram stories.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly when it's happening, but it's coming up soon. I know we've been trying to get props and stuff to be sent out there.

[Jenna Fischer]

What are they gonna have there? Have they gotten items? Do you know?

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, I put them in touch with the NBC Prop Storage Group, like the desks and stuff. Well, a lot of that stuff was sold.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, right. That's right. That's right. I did hear that you told us that, I think.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, yeah, No, I was like, I'm gonna hang on to all of the stuff. And they were like, no, no, we have to save it for the Smithsonian. And then I turned around, and they were selling it on some auction place.

[Angela Kinsey]

But, well, it'd be cool to check out that exhibit. I want to go online and look.

[Greg Daniels]

At it, but, you know, I have Pam's desk. You've seen that, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sorry.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, what?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm gonna start crying. You have my desk? The whole thing is.

[Greg Daniels]

I bought your reception desk online.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, you bought it in the auction?

[Greg Daniels]

I bought it in the auction, yeah. It's in my offices.

[Angela Kinsey]

No way.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Grant, can we come see it?

[Jenna Fischer]

The reception desk for your offices?

[Greg Daniels]

No, it's just sort of, like, on an area of its own with little.

[Angela Kinsey]

You have to go sit in it, Jenna.

[Greg Daniels]

I don't know if you want to go sit in it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know.

[Greg Daniels]

It's so weird. It's out of context.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't. Oh, my God. I don't know how that would be, emotionally.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, it's extremely heavy. I was considering sending it to the Everhart Museum for this exhibit, but you'd.

[Angela Kinsey]

Have to ship it, like, on a big truck or something.

[Greg Daniels]

Might fall apart, I don't know. And I'm worried.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was a real funky height, so it was really hard to get my legs underneath it.

[Greg Daniels]

There's, like, a shelf on the. Sort of an awkward place on the back of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

There is. And also, it was very narrow. Like, it's not deep. So it only was as deep as a keyboard. So if I ever had to pretend like I was writing something down, there was nowhere to write it down, or I'd have to, like, move the keyboard.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, I think it's sort of, like, made for two levels. Right. Like, if you wanted to type, you have a keyboard on a shelf that's sort of halfway down, and you can, like, lower the chair or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, it was just, like. There was just, like, a desk portion, but then there was the upper portion where people would stand and Jim would rest his elbows.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So a lot of times in the show, if I'm writing a message or something and you see that I'm doing it on that upper portion, it's. Cause there was really barely any desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that worked well for camera, though.

[Jenna Fischer]

It did, yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

No, it was a really well made piece of furniture. It was very iconic. Fit the space perfectly. It was unusual.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want to come see it.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can report Back, Jenna, think on it. All right, I have another question for you, Greg. If you could go back and relive a moment from your time on the Office, what would it be?

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, my goodness. Well, I have to say that I loved, obviously, hanging out with the writers, but directing was the most fun, probably because of the cast and interacting with the cast. And I just. I don't know. The first thing that popped into my head was there was times when I would direct Rainn doing Talking Heads, and we would get the giggles and just, you know, it was super, super fun. Because I also think that I have to say that Rainn, you know, that Dwight is also another aspect that I identify with strongly, is the kind of weird survivalist nerd part, you know, so. So, yeah, so he and I would really kind of get into a groove going into that side of Dwight and the Talking Heads. And there's other characters I had to be. I couldn't direct. Like, for some reason, Creed would have a meltdown if I was in the room directing. So I would have to say to Creed, like, hey, I'm super busy. I gotta go use the bathroom. You just keep going with the DP or whatever. And I'd watch out and I'd listen to him so that he could do it without me staring at him. I don't know what the issue was there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I love the bloopers so much, and my kids love the bloopers. So I've watched quite a lot of them. And I would say the person that breaks the most is Rainn and his Talking Heads.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's all over the bloopers. Yes.

[Greg Daniels]

His brain goes ahead of the material, like searching for alternates and stuff. Cause he's sort of. He knows he has the ability to, like, go off script and do his own thing. And so sometimes he would get ahead of the material and start cracking up about what he could say, what he was going to do that he knows is terribly wrong.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

You know? Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

We also talked earlier about all of the auditions. We went back in sort of honor of the 20th anniversary, and we watched all these audition tapes because they're online.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird, isn't it, that they're all out there? I mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. They're not the full audition, you know, tapes. They're just little clips.

[Greg Daniels]

No, I remember we had to get permission. I think they were a DVD extra.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I see.

[Greg Daniels]

And I think we had to get permission from everybody because it's not cool to just, like, leak the audition tapes.

[Angela Kinsey]

But no, no, no, you're right. They're on. I forget what season it is, but there's one DVD box that has a whole bunch of extras. It has, like, 21 minutes of bloopers, and it has the. When everyone Went to Scranton, and it has cast interviews, and I think it has audition tapes. It's sort of a commemorative.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, they also did that sort of, like, retrospective before our finale, and they put some of our audition tapes in there as well.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So do you remember that process of all of us auditioning?

[Greg Daniels]

Sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was many months.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. Well, the funny thing is, where we're shooting the paper is across the street on the lot from the little bungalow that Reveille was based at, that we'd had all of our auditions at. And I don't know if you remember this, but sitting in that bungalow hour after hour, it's really funny because the tram goes right past it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. For the Universal Studios Tour. The tram.

[Greg Daniels]

The tram goes past it. And every, like, 12 minutes, you hear someone go in, and here is where they're going to find the stars of tomorrow. And we'll be sitting there looking at everybody. No, I remember it well. I mean, I'm sure we've talked about this before, but your audition was so extraordinary, Jenna, because it was like, wait a second. This is exactly Pam. I don't understand what she's doing. She doesn't seem to really be doing anything, and yet she's 100% the character. And a lot of, you know, everybody was trying so hard in most auditions, and you were almost, like, knowing, like, not. Yes. Anding you were like, negating all the suggestions for improv.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was.

[Greg Daniels]

Do you remember that? Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was a conscious decision.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, it was. It was brilliant. And I remember just thinking, like, oh, my God. Well, that's Pam. We know that. I'm pretty sure I was asking you. I can't remember if I was asking you or Alison Jones right afterwards, but I was like, what are you doing? How are you doing this?

[Jenna Fischer]

You did. And I said, well, I work as an administrative assistant. For real. That's what I've done for the last seven years. And you were like, really? Really? Wow. Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

That's crazy. And I know you worked at 1-800-Dentist.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. 1, 800 dentists about broke me.

[Greg Daniels]

So you had a lot of accurate office work.

[Angela Kinsey]

What was interesting is that I think. But I didn't know it at the time because my first audition was for Pam, but I really just. I knew who Angela Martin was because she was the office manager. And she planned the Christmas party. Like, when I look back on it, you know, like, just. And she yelled at me because I did a bow wrong on a stair banister for the Office Christmas party. But I didn't know all of that when I first went in.

[Greg Daniels]

No, but I could easily buy that. You at one point mentioned that. And that's why you were the head of the party planning committee. Because it goes both ways. Right. I mean, we were listening to everything that you related to in the character, and often that would turn into script ideas.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's true. You know, we talk about this so much, Greg, because we've never had an experience like we've had on the set of the Office. And the whole cast talks about this. It's because of you. It's because you made us feel, even if it wasn't always the case, you made us feel like we were part of a creative collaboration and that our voices felt heard when we spoke for our character or shared what we thought our character would say. And, you know, I know it's been 20 years, but I'll hold that forever close in my heart that you created that environment for us as creators and creative people.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, it was more fun that way, I think. I think everybody was energized to participate. Yes, because you never knew what we would use.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but it wasn't just the actors, too. There are so many people who were part of our crew that have expanded their roles in the industry thanks to the opportunities and the championship that you provided. I just think of someone like Randall Einhorn, who started as a camera operator dp and now he's his own executive producer, showrunner, director, multi hyphenate.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, well, I would have tried to keep him as a dp. Yeah, he's a very good dp.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's very good.

[Jenna Fischer]

And actually, I could use this.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm sure he still grabs the camera and looks through it too.

[Greg Daniels]

I'm sure. Yeah. He is a strong creative vision, Randall. He was so much a part of the visual style that we developed. Because when I think about it, you know, the original show was cinema verite style, very kind of hangback, and a.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lot of very low angles. I noticed in rewatching the pilot, which.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really low.

[Greg Daniels]

Like when Jan, our pilot was different dp. That was Peter Smoker.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. And I think he. He was borrowing from that way that the British show was shot because they're very similar. And then when Randall came on, I noticed that camera went up on his shoulder and it was a different look.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, Smokeler had one of these devices that was like a crane with a wire that.

[Angela Kinsey]

On the harness.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. It wasn't so much on the shoulder. And Randall and Matt Sohn came from reality shows like Survivor. And the interesting thing was that in between the pilot and season one, I had to hire a writing staff because there was no writing staff on the pilot. And so when you're hiring a writing staff, you read tons of scripts and then you have interviews with the script writers that you like. So I probably had 50 interviews. And part of it is you're pitching the show to them because if you're getting a really hot writer, they need to be wooed a little bit. So I would try to come up with some bull about why this show was the most important show.

[Angela Kinsey]

He had your sales pitch?

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, my sales pitch. And the more I pitched it, the more it sort of started to boil it into something. And part of the sales pitch was that in a world of YouTube and everybody having a cheap camcorder that people were shooting their own stuff. And our show was shot the way you shoot your own life.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Greg Daniels]

And then I also had another thing about reality shows, and this is the new genre or whatever at the time. So by the time I had finished interviewing all these writers, I really was, like, had a strong philosophy behind how the show should look. And. And Terry Weinberg, who you mentioned, I remember her. I'm not sure exactly how she and Ben came into contact with these reality show camera operators, but I think they were also doing reality programming like Biggest Loser or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, Reveille did Biggest Loser.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. So that's how I met Randall. And it was a terrific added piece of the puzzle to start leaning into this reality.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, it makes perfect sense that you say that. I don't know why I haven't ever thought of it, but just the way we used to hold camcorders is exactly the point of view. And that's amazing. I have never thought of that before.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, it's slightly different with phones, I think, at least the way I hold a phone. But if you're really good at phones, they have little handles and stuff, so the phone doesn't wiggle around.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, now you're working on the paper. But you finished shooting.

[Greg Daniels]

We finished shooting the first season. We've at the moment, at this point, we've locked picture on six of the first 10.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's exciting.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. Yeah. And it is exciting. And, you know, there's a lot of our old crew on the show, Kelly Cantley and Kasha Trojak. Or the. You know, and Rusty Mahmoud. They're all like, the whole ad staff is the same guys. And Sergio is catering it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You were so nice you invited us to set. We haven't shared about it yet, but when we saw our crew, when we saw Sergio, we about lost our mind. And I was like, sergio, do you still make your salsa? And he was like, yeah. So, I mean, that was wonderful to see those faces.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, it's very nice to have them around and they keep you honest. Like, Ben Patrick was doing sound and. And at one point he came to me, he was like, this isn't right. You're not doing it right. And I had to talk him out of a tree at one point.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, one of the things that happened on the set when we were there, I think I can tell this story. You tell me, if not. And there was a section of people, and so I thought, oh, I'll be friendly and I'll just come over and I'll say. I'm like, oh, what do you all do on the show? And they all said, oh, we're employees.

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right in the background. And we sit here all the time. And that was their spot. And I was like, I did that. I sat. They're like, we are on the show, but we're sitting here because we're in the background of this moment.

[Greg Daniels]

They're on deck.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And I was like, oh, my gosh. That's what we did. We all sat there all the time. And I think one of the reasons why our show was successful was because we were all there all the time. We were all in it all the time.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, well, there's a lot of reasons, I think, why our show worked. I mean, the cast, first and foremost. But the spirit of the cast and crew being in it together was very special. And, you know, and I think I had a lot of theories about that I got from Monty Python, I think, which was huge show for me. When I'm 12, Monty Python comes out in the US and I'm just like, when you're a 12 year old, that's the.

[Angela Kinsey]

I fought in your general direction.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah. So we would always do that. But I mean, the thing about Monty Python was the writers and the performers were the same people. And you could just get this feeling of them all living in a house somewhere, getting. Getting weirder and weirder together, like this little, you know, cult that had split off from society. Yeah. So I was definitely trying to encourage that with our little group.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, one of the things I love when I look back at pictures. Is that picture when we wrapped, you know, that final moment, and how we were all in the scene together, just walking out of the building and the crew had all gathered around when you were about to yell, you know, cut for the last time. I felt like that was our show was that big room of people, you.

[Greg Daniels]

Know, and we were missing our wrap party. Do you remember?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes. We were late to our own party, which is kind of perfect in itself.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. Because the party was doing the show, so nobody wanted that party to end. And the party where you're drinking ginger ale in some rented warehouse was not gonna be as good as.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right, that moment. Yeah, that's one of the moments I would do again. I think.

[Jenna Fischer]

You would wrap the series again.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, just that moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

But that's what I mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, that moment, that feeling of camaraderie is really special. And there's that amazing picture and I don't know why I'm tearing up, but I think just because it's that moment when we sort of collectively said goodbye was so powerful and just special.

[Greg Daniels]

And, you know, the finale really turned out well, didn't it? I think that makes a big difference because I think there's so many people who watch the finale and then they just crank it up to season one again and start watching again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. I really get it. In our rewatch and having seen some of these episodes I haven't seen since we made them, I'm just like, I'm ready to start again. Like, we watched the pilot yesterday and I'm like, well, I'm ready to watch it again.

[Jenna Fischer]

We change. The characters do grow, but they grow really slowly in a way that's very satisfying. And so I think that's one of the things that is enjoyable about watching it again and again and starting over is that you really are starting at the beginning of a journey with these people. And it's kind of even fun to know now where they're gonna end up.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

For sure. As you go back and watch the second time.

[Greg Daniels]

Have you ever seen a documentary that was called 7Up when it started?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. 14Up, 21Up.

[Greg Daniels]

I don't know what they're up to now. They're like 63 up or something. But it's every seven years they check in with this group of British people who start as seven year olds. Yeah, it's really moving to see what happens to them. But I think that part of the bones of the show is that it is a documentary for real. And it can tap into some of the things that make documentaries emotional. And the finale was like that. It was kind of like people summing their lives up and, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. When you go back and watch the pilot in this superfan version that we watched was a Jim talking head that was extended that I hadn't seen. And that's one of the things in the rewatch. There's so many talking heads I hadn't seen because we're not there when we film each other's talking heads, you know, so there's all these kind of surprises. And Jim says, well, let's see. I'm not married. I don't have kids, but I was able to buy a car. So I have a car, and my car is five years old. And I'm just like. Then I think about all the places where Jim goes and where he ends up and his life. I was just thinking about that. That's exactly what you're talking about. I felt like I had watched him become his fully realized self.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. A lot of the extras for the pilot were stuff that I had added to the British script. And then when we had to cut it down to time, a lot of those had to go. Had to go. Because the original story had all the beats in it. But a lot of those little grace notes were nice.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, the superfan episode is really satisfying to watch. It's really, really fun to watch.

[Greg Daniels]

That's good.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you get to feel that difference between the British pilot and then where you can know that our show is eventually going. It's cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like that. We've watched the whole original broadcast, and now we get to see. It's like, we got a dessert, you know, and I appreciate it. And then, you know, we were talking to Dave Rogers about it, and just the absolute care and integrity that he wants to make sure that these superfan episodes do not venture too far off the original mission. And I'm just like, they could not be in better hands. And I know he's working directly with you on them. And we're so thankful that Dave is sort of helping with all of that.

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, God. Yeah. Well, Dave is really the custodian of every moment of the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's such a beautiful phrase.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

He just knows everything about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

As opposed to me, who's like Mrs. 6.0 Joe and Joe Bennett.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, before we move on to the final part of this interview, I know everybody's gonna want us to ask. You don't have to answer. But we have to ask you about this news story that came out about a certain somebody who might be on the paper.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

A certain character from the office. Oscar.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes. Well, we can now confirm you remember that when you visited the set there was extreme secrecy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. He wasn't even called Oscar like on the script and stuff.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, my hope was that the first script promo or the first piece of footage that it would be a surprise.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like when Steve showed up in the finale.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Greg Daniels]

It's very difficult to keep a surprise nowadays with the amount of entertainment journalism. And somebody sniffed it out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. How?

[Greg Daniels]

How did someone sniff it out? I don't know. But, you know, I mean, there was a lot of times where the tram would go by and Oscar would like dive behind a trash can or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

When we were visiting, the TR tram went by and the NBC, the coordinator who had coordinated our visit, they were like, move away. Move away from the tram.

[Greg Daniels]

Move.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like they didn't want the tram to see us visiting.

[Angela Kinsey]

We dove behind a trailer and then a woman who just happened to be walking through the lot saw us and was like, oh, my gosh. And asked for our picture and said yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're like, sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that NBC woman sprinted out and said, you have to. You can't post that. You can't. And we were like, oh. And she was like, okay, you guys get in your cars.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Greg Daniels]

Well, it's interesting because I always feel like it's more fun for surprises to hit while you're having the experience of watching the show. And for an ordinary person who is going to watch the show several years later without paying attention to whatever the pre launch publicity was. Yeah, Blogs and stuff is just going to be watching it. So you want to build it so that the surprises are for the people watching the show. But sometimes it's very difficult to promote things if you're going to try and keep a secret. So for instance, I am also putting the finishing touches on the last season of Upload season four. And we ended season three on an enormous cliffhanger of which version of our lead character, Nathan Robbie Amell. He's a digital person, he's been uploaded and at some point he was illegally copied. And there's two of them in season three. And then we sort of ended on this cliffhanger of one of them has been destroyed. And anyway, so we're like, oh, cool, it's gonna be such an exciting beginning to season four. And when you find out which one. And now I'm realizing, like, I don't know how to promote this because all of the, you know, all of the.

[Jenna Fischer]

Footage is very clear.

[Greg Daniels]

It's going to make it pretty clear which one, you know, which one survived. But I wasn't thinking along those lines. But yeah, so I was really trying to protect Oscar to be a fun surprise for people watching the new show to suddenly realize that he was a part of it. And the essential story of the show. I mean, Oscar's wonderful. It's not a spinoff series for what happens to Oscar. It's more the show of the documentary crew looking around for something else to do a documentary about and finding this newspaper that has fallen on hard times like most newspapers and does not even have a budget for any reporters. So the idea is that a very idealistic person comes in to try and put this newspaper back on his feet and finds out that's Donal Gleason finds out that he doesn't have the budget to hire reporters and has to turn the existing staff of ad salespeople and accountants and truck drivers into reporters to make some content for the paper. And they don't know what they're doing and hilarity ensues.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we're so excited to watch it. Do you know when it's going to air? Do you have an air date?

[Greg Daniels]

I think probably in the fall, like a back to school kind of a thing. Like it's like the old days.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we can't wait to watch the paper. And you'll let us know when we can start sharing about it?

[Greg Daniels]

Yes, of course. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, thank you. So Greg, we've started asking our guests the call sheet questions. That's what we call them. These were the questions on the back of our call sheets where we would get to know a crew member. So we're going to ask you the office call sheet questions. Okay, ready? Question number one. What was your first entertainment job?

[Greg Daniels]

Ahaha. Well, I'll tell you that I track it from. It's not really a job, but my father worked for Capital Cities Broadcasting as his career when I was a kid and he worked at different radio stations and at one point he was the manager of a rock radio station in Rhode island and he used to go to this managers meeting for all of the other station managers and he entertained at the meeting. He had a Carnac style act where he had. He would.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like Johnny Carson.

[Greg Daniels]

Like Johnny Carson where he would put an envelope up to his head and you know, read the answers and then open up the envelope and there would be the joke. And so I wrote jokes for him for that act. And we've used it in the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember that.

[Angela Kinsey]

When Michael does it.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes. And we used the same joke. That was my first joke.

[Angela Kinsey]

How old were you?

[Greg Daniels]

I was like, a teenager. And he did it for many years, and eventually various friends of mine wrote for him. And at one point, he had Conan writing for him and this guy, Mike Reese, who was one of the showrunners of the Simpsons, who before. And obviously before, you know, they had big careers.

[Jenna Fischer]

So in your dad's, like, employee circle and just circle of friends, do they just think your dad is the funniest person they've ever met? Like, the best comedy writers.

[Greg Daniels]

I've stolen a ton of stories. My dad has lived through a lot of funny things, and he turns them into very funny stories, and I've used them. So, for instance, I wrote an episode of seinfeld that was 100% based on my dad, where he lived in New York City, and he had a car, but it was too expensive to have a garage. So every two days, he would drive around looking for a parking space, and sometimes it would take 45 minutes an hour to find a parking space. So at one point he found one. He was so excited, and he started to back into it, and this other guy tried to front into it, and neither of them were.

[Angela Kinsey]

You remember that episode? Yes. And it was like a standoff in the parking spot.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah. And this happened to him, and he wouldn't leave, and a friend of his walked by and he flagged him down, and he had him tell my mom to make him dinner and bring it to the parking spot. And so I pitched that to Larry David and sold that as a freelance episode. So I feel like I've taken enough from him where I'm happy to have given him, you know, jokes for his manager act.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that. I love that.

[Greg Daniels]

So that would be my first. I mean, that wasn't a paid job. First paid job was Conan and I probably working for, not necessarily the news back in the day.

[Angela Kinsey]

As writing partners.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes, we were writing partners.

[Jenna Fischer]

Next question. Do you speak any other languages or play a musical instrument?

[Greg Daniels]

It's so funny you should bring that up, because I am pounding away at duolingo right now.

[Angela Kinsey]

What language?

[Greg Daniels]

I'm doing Spanish and French and Portuguese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Greg Daniels]

Like, Japanese. I'm trying a whole bunch to see what sticks. Yeah, well, sometimes you're mostly Spanish. I'm making the most progress in Spanish, but sometimes I'll try some other ones. And I just was at McCabe's guitar shop last week, and I was listening to a concert, and somebody was Playing a mandolin. And I was like, God damn it, I gotta learn how to play the mandolin before I die. I really want to learn that. But I have really no musical ability.

[Angela Kinsey]

So Creed plays the mandolin, does he?

[Greg Daniels]

I'll bet he's great.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, next question. What's a place you've been to that you absolutely loved?

[Greg Daniels]

Well, I'm like, kind of like, no matter where I go, I'm always like, could I live here? This is cool. And I remember driving out to LA with Conan and another friend, Rob Lizevnik, to have jobs that not necessarily the news. And we drove through Santa Fe, New Mexico, and I remember being like, oh, my God, this place is magical. How could I work here? And the only job that I thought I might be able to work on was the newspaper, because they had a newspaper there. So I had a little fantasy of.

[Angela Kinsey]

Living in Santa Fe.

[Greg Daniels]

Living in Santa Fe and working for whatever their newspaper was.

[Jenna Fischer]

My in laws live in Santa Fe.

[Greg Daniels]

Really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Lee's dad and stepmom live in Santa Fe.

[Greg Daniels]

We go there all the time there. It's just like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, it's very high elevation. Actually kind of sneaks up on you. But we moved to Santa Fe during the pandemic to be closer to them, and that was our pod.

[Greg Daniels]

That's cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, that's really cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's great.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, question number four. What do you like to do on the weekends?

[Greg Daniels]

Well, you know, I still have kids who can't drive. My youngest is just learning how to drive, and so my weekends are mostly driving her around.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I can't relate.

[Angela Kinsey]

I say something. I'm just parent Uber, you know?

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what you do on the weekends.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do you like to do on the weekends?

[Greg Daniels]

I don't need to.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's no.

[Greg Daniels]

There's no point in having dreams until she gets her driver's license.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's gonna change your life.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, last question. What is your favorite midnight snack?

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, man. I just. Okay, so Paul Lieberstein, his son, had a recipe that they shared with me when he was in first grade. It's the easiest thing to make in the world. It's Greek yogurt and self rising flour mixed and it becomes a dough. And you can then bake it and you can make a bagel out of it. You can make a biscuit out of it. It's like a good dough. And so what I've been doing lately is putting different things inside of it and making like a little bread Pie? Yeah, Like a little hot pocket.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like what do you put in there?

[Greg Daniels]

Put it in the toaster oven. I put in some chicken and onions. The middle of the night, the other.

[Jenna Fischer]

Night, you whip up a from scratch dough.

[Greg Daniels]

It's not.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Greg Daniels]

Very nice.

[Angela Kinsey]

That sounds really good.

[Greg Daniels]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm gonna hit you up for that recipe, actually.

[Greg Daniels]

Oh, you just heard it. There's no, nothing moving.

[Jenna Fischer]

What are the proportions? Is it like 50?

[Greg Daniels]

50.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, so a cup of dough and a cup of yogurt.

[Greg Daniels]

Like cup of yogurt, cup of flour.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right. Cup of flour, cup of yogurt.

[Greg Daniels]

And to keep it to two ingredients, it's self rising flour, which is basically flour that already has baking powder mixed into it. Sure. But you could just put in a teaspoon of baking powder to a cup.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of flour and then you knead it up and then you can just stir.

[Greg Daniels]

It up and you press it into the tray that comes with the toaster oven and then you put whatever filling you want on top of it and you just kind of fold the flaps up and try and seal it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

How long do you bake it for?

[Greg Daniels]

I don't know, 25 minutes. Doesn't matter. You can't really over bake it that much. Just gets a little crustier. It's not like exact science.

[Angela Kinsey]

Greg, we have asked so many people this question, and that is the most unique answer that we've ever given.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it. Oh, Greg, thank you so much for coming in and well, it's always so.

[Greg Daniels]

Fun marking this occasion and obviously I'm very interested in the content of your show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are we doing okay? Did we get it right?

[Greg Daniels]

It's fabulous. You know, and you guys always do your homework so well and you always have such interesting questions and, you know, such a fun experience to come on the show and to hang out with you guys. I miss having you in my daily life.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw, Greg, I feel the same way. Thank you so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, we so appreciate too, the fans send in fantastic questions, so we have to, like, thank them for helping inspire us to ask you the things we do ask you. But what a joy to see you. And we can't wait to talk more about the paper with you when you're ready.

[Greg Daniels]

Sure. Well, I can't wait for people to see it. My hope is that if you like the Office, you'll like this new thing because it has some tonal similarities and a great cast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Fantastic cast and writers.

[Greg Daniels]

It's a marvelous cast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And crew that we all know.

[Greg Daniels]

Yes, well, we're in the world.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, Greg. Well, we love you so much. Thank you so much for being here.

[Greg Daniels]

Okay. Have a great rest of your broadcast. I started that and I didn't know how to end it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You did the thing. Whenever, like, we joke about this. Like, when we don't know how to get out of something, we either sing.

[Greg Daniels]

It or we do a voice. Yeah, I turned into an old fisherman. You did.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thanks, Greg.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kieffer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubaco.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese. Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

[Angela Kinsey]

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