All About Angela Martin

Summary

Podcast Summary: Office Ladies – "All About Angela Martin"

Release Date: June 25, 2025
Hosts: Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
Title: All About Angela Martin

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Introduction

In the "All About Angela Martin" episode of Office Ladies, co-hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey delve deep into the character Angela Martin from the beloved TV series The Office. Celebrating Angela Kinsey’s birthday, the episode combines personal anecdotes, character analysis, favorite moments, and engaging fan theories, providing listeners—both longtime fans and newcomers—with an insightful exploration of Angela Martin's persona and her impact on the show.

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Angela Kinsey's Birthday Celebration

The episode opens with a heartfelt birthday celebration for Angela Kinsey. Jenna Fischer expresses her excitement over the meticulously planned gifts, highlighting the thoughtfulness behind each present.

• Jenna Fischer [02:14]: "I have a beautiful, kind of muted rust color. The colors are beautiful."
• Angela Kinsey [02:25]: "Lady. Look at you in Star Wars merch."

Jenna presents Angela with several meaningful gifts, including a hummingbird mug recreated by Katie Bowler after the original was accidentally broken.

• Jenna Fischer [03:21]: "Get 20% off your first Buffy order using Code Officeladies at Buffy CO."

Angela expresses her gratitude and joy, appreciating the sentimental value of each gift.

• Angela Kinsey [04:20]: "This is so beautiful. Katie, I love it, Jenna. Thank you."

The celebration also includes discussing the personalized pitcher created for Angela, symbolizing her unique personality and love for plants.

• Jenna Fischer [04:42]: "That's because the pitcher you have in your kitchen where you put all your leftover water."

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Character Analysis: Angela Martin

Transitioning from the birthday festivities, Fischer and Kinsey immerse themselves in an in-depth analysis of Angela Martin's character, referencing the show's internal "show bible" and exploring her likes, dislikes, relationships, and quirks.

Show Bible Insights

The hosts reveal personal touches from the show's documentation, including Angela Martin's full name, occupation, and fictional address.

• Jenna Fischer [07:37]: "First of all, it lists your full name, Angela Noel Martin. And it lists your job as head accountant."

Likes and Dislikes

A comprehensive list of Angela's preferences is discussed, illustrating her meticulous and particular nature.

• Jenna Fischer [09:13]: "Angela Martin does not like germs. She is constantly sterilizing her hands."
• Angela Kinsey [09:25]: "And she hates mysteries because she hates being titillated."

Angela's Cats

Angela Kinsey highlights her character’s deep affection for her numerous cats, emphasizing their role in defining Angela’s identity.

• Jenna Fischer [11:21]: "Sprinkles, Garbage, Bandit... that's all of them."
• Angela Kinsey [11:59]: "I just love, love, love that she has a cat named Diane."

Relationships and Favorites

The hosts discuss Angela's complex relationships within the office, her romantic entanglements, and her famous brownie-making skills.

• Jenna Fischer [12:21]: "Angela Martin has had sex with Dwight in his barn."
• Angela Kinsey [13:01]: "Very good."

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Favorite Moments and Personal Insights

Fischer and Kinsey share their favorite Angela Martin moments, recounting specific scenes and behind-the-scenes anecdotes that highlight the character's depth and evolution.

Memorable Scenes

One standout moment is the "Launch Party" scene, where Angela's perfectionism and frustration come to the forefront.

• Jenna Fischer [17:41]: "It's supposed to say launch. Okay. Wow."
• Angela Kinsey [18:01]: "What's next? Oscar? Stay alive."

Bloopers and On-Set Stories

Angela shares a humorous behind-the-scenes story about a blooper involving a close interaction with co-star Rainn Wilson (Dwight Schrute).

• Angela Kinsey [19:00]: "While filming, my face almost touched Dwight's elbow, and he cursed. Everyone laughed."
• Jenna Fischer [19:31]: "What's your blood type? O negative. Universal donor."

Character Growth

The hosts reflect on Angela Martin's character development throughout the series, highlighting key moments that showcase her vulnerability and growth.

• Angela Kinsey [22:43]: "I was most proud of Angela's growth with her relationship to Oscar."

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Fan Theories

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing intriguing fan theories about Angela Martin, addressing popular speculations and providing the hosts' perspectives.

Pam's Responsibility in Sprinkles' Death

Listeners speculate that Pam Beesly indirectly caused the death of Angela's cat, Sprinkles, by pressuring her to attend a company event.

• Jenna Fischer [31:09]: "Both Pam and Dwight contributed to Sprinkle's death."
• Angela Kinsey [32:32]: "She feels peer pressure a little bit."

Garbage and Bandit: The Same Cat?

A theory suggests that Angela's cats Garbage and Bandit are actually the same feline, renamed after Dwight lost the first.

• Jenna Fischer [33:22]: "Garbage is Bandit, Angela renamed him."
• Angela Kinsey [35:08]: "The same cat was not used physically, but they are the same in the storyline."

Is Angela Really a Vegetarian?

Conflicting evidence throughout the series has fans debating whether Angela Martin is truly a vegetarian.

• Jenna Fischer [36:35]: "She insists no vegetables and no seafood."
• Angela Kinsey [38:37]: "She eats beans and pastas but not Brussels sprouts."

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Q&A: Listener Questions

In the Q&A segment, the hosts address listener-submitted questions, providing deeper insights into Angela Martin’s character and Angela Kinsey’s portrayal.

Angela Martin’s Backstory and Upbringing

Listeners inquire about the origins of Angela Martin's personality and her path to Dunder Mifflin.

• Angela Kinsey [42:34]: "Angela needed structure and rules, which is why she chose accounting."
• Jenna Fischer [43:03]: "Angela is a combination of a strict office manager and a proper grandmother."

Impact of Playing Angela on Real Life

Questions arise about how portraying Angela Martin has influenced Angela Kinsey personally and professionally.

• Angela Kinsey [51:42]: "Playing Angela was an escape for me. I’m not confrontational, but Angela was."
• Jenna Fischer [53:32]: "Was Angela being typecast before The Office? Did you have to work hard to get different roles?"

Angela Kinsey discusses the challenges of being typecast and her efforts to diversify her roles post-The Office.

• Angela Kinsey [54:05]: "Angela was the first 'bitch' I ever played, leading to similar roles post-show."
• Jenna Fischer [56:37]: "Playing Angela helped her land varied roles, like in Hot in Cleveland and Hallmark movies."

Future of Dwight and Angela

Listeners are curious about the future of Dwight and Angela’s relationship and whether Angela continues her accounting career.

• Angela Kinsey [68:01]: "They have more children and run the bed and breakfast at Schrute Farms, continuing her accounting skills."
• Jenna Fischer [69:13]: "Angela got all her cats back and they are happily on the farm."

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Conclusion

In "All About Angela Martin," Office Ladies offers a comprehensive and heartfelt exploration of one of The Office's most intricate characters. Through personal stories, detailed character analysis, and engaging discussions on fan theories, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey provide a rich narrative that deepens fans' appreciation for Angela Martin. Celebrating Angela Kinsey’s birthday adds a personal touch, emphasizing the genuine friendship and camaraderie between the hosts. This episode serves as both a tribute to Angela Martin’s role in The Office and a testament to the enduring legacy of the show.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jenna Fischer [07:37]: "First of all, it lists your full name, Angela Noel Martin."
• Angela Kinsey [09:25]: "And she hates mysteries because she hates being titillated."
• Jenna Fischer [17:41]: "It's supposed to say launch. Okay. Wow."
• Angela Kinsey [19:00]: "What's your blood type? O negative. Universal donor."
• Jenna Fischer [31:09]: "Both Pam and Dwight contributed to Sprinkle's death."
• Angela Kinsey [35:08]: "The same cat was not used physically, but they are the same in the storyline."

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This summary captures the essence of the "All About Angela Martin" episode, highlighting key discussions, personal insights, and specific quotes to provide a thorough understanding of the content without requiring prior listening.

Transcript

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady. I got my Buffy sheets and my Buffy comforter. I know. The thing about them is that they're, like, super luxurious. And they're so soft, and they're amazing, and all those things are true.

[Angela Kinsey]

But they are the big B.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's the big B?

[Angela Kinsey]

Breathable.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. That's not even what I was gonna say.

[Angela Kinsey]

What were you gonna say?

[Jenna Fischer]

I was gonna say the color.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I do love the color.

[Jenna Fischer]

I got this, like, beautiful, kind of muted rust color. I wasn't sure, like, what exactly it was gonna be like. The colors are beautiful. And then I got blue sheets.

[Angela Kinsey]

I got the blue. I got the bl. And blue sheets, but they're this really pretty, kind of pale blue.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Buffy is committed to always being chemical free, which I like as well.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's also the most awarded bedding brand out there. They have hundreds of awards. I did not know they gave awards for sheets, but I'm not surprised.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm not surprised. And Buffy just won House Beautiful's Editor's Choice Award for luxury sheets.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Gentle enough to use every single day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself. Visit dermalogica.com and use code smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with 65% purchase. I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together, and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello. Hi.

[Jenna Fischer]

Today it is all about Angela Martin. And it is also Angela Kinsey's birthday celebration.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is. It is. You guys, I walked into. I mean, just such a beautiful arrangement on the table. You guys clearly know me. There were roses, a cake, a little bottle of.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

A little sloth for my tea.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. You put, like, loose tea leaves inside the sloth, and then he hangs on the side of your cup.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's so cute. I can't wait. And then maybe my favorite. It looks like a pad of butter. Yeah, it looks just like a pad of butter, but it's notepad. It's like sticky notes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, I've had that butter pad of paper for so long, and I've been saving it to give to you. I'm so delighted the day has come.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm so tickled by it. And then there's some bags, but I'll wait and open them later.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think you should open them now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am so excited to give you these gifts, Angela. I think maybe they're the greatest presents I've ever given a person for any occasion, ever. I am so excited, and I had help. I'll explain.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I want you to start by opening the small bag.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

You have to read the bottom.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a hummingbird mug. There's hummingbirds on it. It's clearly handmade, and they're surrounded by flowers. To Angela. Jenna is sorry because about a month.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ago, I broke your hummingbird mug that we got from Katie Bowler.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, by accident. You were doing the dishes, and it just slipped off the rack.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, lady, I contacted Katie, and I asked her if she would make you another one, and she did.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is so beautiful, Katie. I love it, Jenna. Thank you. I didn't want to make you feel bad, but I was really sad.

[Jenna Fischer]

I knew you were really sad because you were going out of your way to not make me feel bad, which was a major tell that you were so bummed. And, you know, during season nine of the Office, my beloved Pam mug fell on the ground and broke.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know what it's like to lose a precious mug.

[Angela Kinsey]

My favorite mug.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is so beautiful. Thank you both so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I asked Katie to make you something else.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that's in the big bag.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, you guys. Oh, this is so beautiful. It is this beautiful pitcher that you would, like, put water in or iced tea, and it's got these beautiful plants etched on it. She's such a great artist. And it says, for the plants, lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's because the pitcher you have in your kitchen where you put all your leftover water. We were saying someone came to your house and they accidentally drank water out of it, thinking it was for people. And I said, you need a picture that says for the plants.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now you have one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, this is so beautiful. Thank you all so much. Thank you, Jenna. Thank you, Katie, and thank you, Cassie, for the flowers, of course. Happy birthday. Thank you. What a wonderful way to start the day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Katie said she had never made anything like the for the plants pitcher before. I think it's such a good idea. I said, I'm worried people might want them. And she said, okay, well, you just tell everybody that I was so delighted to make these items for Angela, but I'm actually on pause right now with my ceramics store. She is getting married this summer. Her daughter's graduating from high school, but she said in the fall, she's hoping to restock. And you can follow her on Instagram at katiessketchbook. She said, quote, if I get my act together, that's where I'll keep everyone up to date.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Katie, when you're ready to open your store back up, you just tell us, and we'll share about it in our instastories.

[Jenna Fischer]

Aw, this was so fun. Katie and I have been spending the last month going back and forth for these gifts.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just love it. I love it so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, lady, before we pivot into All About Angela Martin, you know, when we did our episode all About Pam Beasley, you wore a special shirt for me to celebrate Pam Beasley.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

You wore a Pam sass. Yes, well, I wanted to wear a special shirt today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, is this why you haven't been able to take your hoodie off? Jenna has been having a hot flash.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I said off the mic. I said, take your hoodie off, and you wouldn't.

[Jenna Fischer]

I said, I will eventually. Yes. So this shirt is really more in honor of Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

But here it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Lady. Look at you in Star wars merch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Star wars merch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just for you, lady. Wait, I have to take a picture of you. Did you buy this shirt special?

[Jenna Fischer]

I bought it at Disneyland.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's hilarious. Well, thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Angela Kinsey is delighted.

[Jenna Fischer]

I went to Disneyland with my family recently, and we went to Star Wars Land. And, you know, now I've seen the first three movies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I was just so tickled. I became. I couldn't help myself. I bought a shirt.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, now you knew what different things meant.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did. I was like, look, it's the Millennium Falcon. And I know what that is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not only am I so tickled that you're wearing that, but I know you have a whole day after this, so you'll be wearing that everywhere you go today.

[Jenna Fischer]

I will. All right, now it is officially time to pivot into All About Angela Martin. And I thought that we could kick things off with this haiku.

[Angela Kinsey]

A haiku?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Written by Kat M. In North Carolina. Here is the Angela Martin haiku. Little cat lady. Always seemed to be angry. Just needed some love.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cat. That completely sums her up.

[Jenna Fischer]

It really does. It's a well written haiku. And then of course, as you know, we always like to visit the show bible for our all about characters. And yours did not disappoint, Angela. First of all, it lists your full name, Angela Noel Martin. And it lists your job as head accountant.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you for noting that I am the head accountant.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then, per the art department, this is a note in the show bible. It says, per Art department. You have an address? Oh, you live at 948 Bednar street in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

[Angela Kinsey]

I never knew that.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I realized that the art department would always assign us addresses. And then I had one on my fakie driver's license for Pam. And you probably had it on anything they made for you. That was personal. But I don't think it ever appeared in the show for any reason. So that's why it said per Art department.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hmm.

[Jenna Fischer]

Although you also lived in Ohio at one point. Season 5, Episode 15 that Little Nugget Is Revealed Angela's backstory. Also, you have additional jobs. In addition to being head accountant. Angela Martin was also head of the PPC and safety officer, along with Dwight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I made a list of Angela Martin's dislikes and likes. Okay, here are Angela Martin's dislikes. Thinks green is whorish. Also thinks orange is whorish.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

Doesn't like to gamble.

[Angela Kinsey]

Nope.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then I thought, considering that she has filed a complaint against everyone in the office, she probably dislikes everyone in some way.

[Angela Kinsey]

Some way everyone has bumped her at some point.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Angela Martin does not like germs. She is constantly sterilizing her hands. And she wears a mask to work. She does not like movie Monday. She is offended by the Kama Sutra. She thinks malls are awful and humiliating. She does not like making people laugh. And she does not like murder mystery games. But she has a number of likes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, let's hear them.

[Jenna Fischer]

She's a very balanced person. There is a yang to her yang. She likes the colors gray, dark gray, and charcoal.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

She likes performance reviews as she enjoys being judged. She likes babies dressed as adults. She thinks it's okay to drink. She has sleep apnea and likes to read before bed. But she hates mysteries because she hates being titillated. So I get a little bit of a like dislike there. She is a history buff, and she enjoys Ben Franklin's lecture. And of course, she loves her cats and dressing her cats in outfits. And she also licks them and she sleeps with them in bed. So Angela's cats are a very famous part of her personality.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Her identity. And when we had our interview with Billie Eilish, you guys did a cat naming contest. But do you know how many cats Angela has? How many cats she might have more. So maybe I should say, how many cats does she mention in this series?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my goodness. Is it around 13?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's more.

[Angela Kinsey]

How many?

[Jenna Fischer]

18.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was gonna guess 13 or 17.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I went lower and I have all their names.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here they are.

[Angela Kinsey]

For the record.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

All 18 cat names.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sprinkles.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Garbage, Bandit. Although, and I'll get to this later, there's a big fan theory going around that Garbage and Bandit are the same cats. So 18 names, maybe 17 cats. Princess Lady, Mr. Ash Petals, Comstock, Ember, Milky Way, Diane, Lumpy, Philip, Tinky, Crinklepuss, Bandit 2, Pollock Baggins, and Lady Eragon. That's all of them.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I just love, love, love that she has a cat named Diane.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know of all these names that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is my absolute favorite.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I would say almost as famous as Angela is for her cats, she might also be famous for her lovers.

[Angela Kinsey]

She has a few.

[Jenna Fischer]

While she has called Pam the office mattress and was disgusted seeing Michael and Donna making out, Angela Martin has had sex with Dwight in his barn. And also in the warehouse. And also in the office, she dated Andy and the senator. However, she does consider first base to be just a kiss on the forehead. And she wouldn't hug Andy in public. So she's an interesting. Yes. And finally, I thought we should note Angela is very good at making brownies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very good.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, they're Kevin's favorites.

[Jenna Fischer]

Double fudge.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And there you have it. That is your summary, Office Bible tribute to Angela Martin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I am so glad that you listed all of the cats, because I get asked that a lot, so I'll have to, like, save that audio clip.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. Well, I printed it out for you if you want. I even have a breakdown of when each of the cats names appeared in the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So I can give that to you.

[Angela Kinsey]

If you want such serious Dr. Thibodeau action.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, that was a wonderful show Bible. I mean, I did learn a few new things, like her address.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, when you did my show Bible, there were things in there I didn't even remember. And it was very fun to hear it all.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, why don't we take a break and when we Come back. We are going to go through our Angela Martin favorite moments and our areas of interest.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, let's say you realized your business needed to hire someone. But like yesterday, how can you find amazing candidates fast?

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, I know this answer. I know you know it's Indeed.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

If you are that person that we're talking about and you need to hire someone fast, you definitely need Indeed. I wonder what Dunder Mifflin would have been like if they'd used Indeed. Would Kevin have a job?

[Angela Kinsey]

Probably not. Neither would Meredith.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Indeed.com officeladies Terms and conditions apply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hiring Indeed is all you need. This podcast is brought to you by.

[Jenna Fischer]

Squarespace and it makes sense that it's brought to you by squarespace because the officeladies.com webpage is thanks to Squarespace.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

All right, we are back and you know what we should say. Unfortunately, Sam is not here with us today. He woke up sick and he couldn't come in the studio to celebrate your birthday. But Angela, he says happy Birthday.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you, Sam. I hope you feel better soon.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I had also asked everybody if they would please pick their Favorite Angela Martin moment. I want to start with this one that was sent in by Denise S. In Medford, Oregon.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a nice comforter and several cozy pillows. I usually read a chapter of a book and it slides out by 8:30. That's how I sleep at night. Well, Denise, I love that you love that quote because several people have asked me to write that on things like when I sign things.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Denise went on to say the audacity of the documentary crew and the reveal of the question at the end. It's just so perfect.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was really fun. That was a fun one.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is a fun one. Like the way it pays off. You realize what they asked you at the very end?

[Angela Kinsey]

At the end, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, next up, lady, I'm gonna share my favorite. It is from Launch Party. This is a scene that leads into my favorite Angela Martin talking head. It starts with Angela and Phyllis are hanging up a sign. And Angela realizes that Phyllis has hung up a sign that says Lunch party instead of Launch party. And then Phyllis has a talking head where she says she's been doing some research on how to deal with difficult people. Yeah, here it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

So how do you feel about the fact that the banner says Lunch? I feel angry. Angry at you. Angry at you for doing something stupid. Angry at me for believing you could do something not stupid. I'm so sorry to hear that. That must be awful. It is awful. You've made this day awful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Maybe you could just change the U into an A.

[Angela Kinsey]

Then it would say lanch party. Kevin, would it really be better if it said lanch party?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, lunch party.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's supposed to say launch. Okay. Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Easy, booster. See, Nobody cares about this party anyway.

[Angela Kinsey]

I care. Plan a party, Angela. Oh, and the entire world will see it. Oh, and here's $65 for your budget. Oh, and here are four idiots who'll do nothing but weigh you down. Oh, and your cat's still dead, lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

The whole thing, it's so. It is just so funny, your reactions to everybody. The just like how put upon you are by the inefficiency of everyone around you. I don't know, it just.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's wonder and a $65 budget.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know to throw a party for. How many people are in this office?

[Angela Kinsey]

The whole office.

[Jenna Fischer]

How do you feed everyone?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, especially if you spent a lot of money on a banner that was worded wrong.

[Jenna Fischer]

So listen, Sam couldn't be here, but he did send in his clip. Should we have a listen?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hello, Angela. Happy birthday. I'm really sorry I Can't be there today. I am sick. My personal favorite Angela moment is. I forget what episode it's from. It's where Dwight is hitting on Isabelle, and Angela walks up behind him. Just something about her face. It's so earnest and so sincere in the way Rain reacts.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's just great.

[Jenna Fischer]

This clip, I think, is from the bloopers, because you can hear everyone laughing afterwards, but it's great. So here it is. What's your blood type?

[Angela Kinsey]

O negative.

[Jenna Fischer]

Universal donor. Universal donor. That's a little bit of a visual one, but I know exactly what he's talking about.

[Angela Kinsey]

The reason why everyone's laughing is because on that particular take, it was the first time we did sort of this gag where our director, Matt Stone, was like, angela, I want you to sneak up as close to Rain. You know, like, kind of get almost right under his armpit. Like, get as close to him as you can and just kind of peer up at him. And we didn't tell Rain how close I was gonna get to him. And so when we did it, when he turned, his elbow was, like, kind of right at my face. So he's like, oh, my God. And he, like, cursed. And everyone started laughing. And then Matt was like, okay, you guys have to do that exactly again. We have to do it again. And then that's the one that ended up in the episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, the other thing about it that's so funny, Angela, it was such a good piece of direction, and you so nail it. Is because Rain and Kellen, who played Isabel, are so tall.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you are so sneaky and tiny as you sort of come up and you just appear.

[Angela Kinsey]

And also, normally my character wore, like, really high heels. And for that particular scene, because we wanted that sight gag, I wore, like, ballerina flats.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I'm basically my full five one right there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness. All right, Cassie, do you have a favorite Angela Martin moment?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do, and I think it's probably the most famous one. But I have to go with it. Cause it's what my heart tells me. And it's the Save Bandit moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think it's just perfect television. Every beat, every moment is perfect.

[Angela Kinsey]

And when you broke down the episode and talked about all that was involved and the crew, like, truly incredible work. So here it is.

[Jenna Fischer]

Remember your exit points. Exit points, people. What's next? Oscar? Stay alive. I'm getting help.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pull me up.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're too heavy.

[Angela Kinsey]

I only weigh 82 pounds. Say, bandit. Sometimes you just hear a little bit of a scene, and you are right Back there. That is one for me. One of the things that cracked me up is after we did our first take, the director for that episode, Jeff Blitz, was like, I want to just, like, up the anxiety of this moment. Like, up the stakes, like, even more, like, heighten it. And I didn't intend on doing this, but after I did it, Jeff was like, you have to do that every time. So Oscar yells down at me, and I did this, like, you know that, like, gravel thing you do with your voice? I'm like, owe. I need to pass. Like, I kind of. Because I was just so in the moment. And he was like, you have to do that every time now. I was like, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Those are so fun. I loved hearing all of those.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela, do you have a favorite Angela Martin moment?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man. You know, there's so many moments I'm so thankful I got to play and scenes I got to be a part of. But I have, I think, one of my all time favorite speeches, and it's to Phyllis. And it's also in Launch Party.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. That is such a good Angela Phyllis episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that is one of my favorite dynamics is between you and Phyllis. I feel like I could watch a whole show about you guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

I asked for assorted cutlery, and I got back spoons. These are worthless. I want to understand what you're saying, but it's difficult for me when you use that tone. Phyllis, these are spoons. Spoons have rounded tops and are used to scoop things. What we need are forks which have prongs or tiny spears on top. And we need knives which have blades. Do you understand me now?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Goody. That was such a blast to do.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like the reason I love Angela Martin in that episode so much is that she is my, like, interior monologue for every time I've had to deal with, like, an inefficient situation. Like, I managed to suppress it, but on the inside, that is. I have a little Angela Martin saying all those things.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're like, I only got 65 bucks and four idiots.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that was really fun. I loved hearing everyone's favorite moments.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, now, Angela, I'd love to turn it over to you. I'd love to hear about your Angela Martin area of interest.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, first, to kick things off, I'd like to share a character review that I found of Angela Martin. Because several of you wrote in to ask me what it was like to play a character that was, well, many times very unlikable. She could be hypocritical judgy, downright mean. And you know, I have seen the Reddit threads about, you know, some of the most unlikable characters on the Office, and Angela Martin usually makes the list. She also made some Internet lists of unlikable characters like this one titled quote, after re watching the Office, I made a definitive ranking of all of the characters. Here's what I came up with, from worst to best.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Huh. There are 23 characters at number 23, ranked the worst. Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, this is worse than Ryan Howard.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is what they go on to say. Quote. Okay, some might think that this is unfair to her, but honestly, she was just not a good person. The only good thing about her character was how she complimented Dwight. She was a cheater, a liar, and actively aimed to hurt other people. Not to mention that she was also annoying, mean, and showed no remorse for her actions. I do think she did show some remorse. She had some growth.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's the one say that I don't agree with. And why I would put Ryan Howard lower than Angela was because Ryan was also a liar and a cheater, and he strung people along for his own benefit.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was very manipulative. He was.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he never shows any remorse for it. Whereas Angela, she has growth. So, lady, I would put Ryan Howard as number 23 and maybe you're number 22. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I definitely hear this person on a lot of those points. Would you like to know who made the number one best, Best character, favorite.

[Jenna Fischer]

Favorite in this list, meaning like best person or favorite? Phyllis?

[Angela Kinsey]

Michael Scott.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, I mean, he's a crowd pleaser.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's a crowd pleaser. Well, I would like to point out that Angela Martin did not make the most unlikable the Office characters list on movieweb.com or screenrant.com I love that you're.

[Jenna Fischer]

Shouting out the two places that left you off the list that left you. Thanks, guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Anyway, I thought we had to address an all about Angela Martin. The fact that, you know, she's not very likable a lot of the times. All right, well, you know, I also felt like a big part of my character was her wardrobe. And the costume department on the Office really came through for me and really helped me build this character. So my area of interest is how to dress like Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I love that you're gonna talk about this, Angela, because it really is true how there are some roles that you where your costume is, as soon as you put it on, you just immediately feel more in Character?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Like that person.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

The first thing you need to know is you do not need to wear pantyhose or stockings of any kind.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. Now, that is Angela MacKenzie.

[Angela Kinsey]

Second, you are allowed a comfortable shoe like Sass shoes, but you will also need a 3 inch heel because the love of your life is very tall. Third, you need at least one pencil skirt. Four, you will need several floofy blouses with a high collar and a minimum of 32 tiny buttons. Five, you will sometimes wear a sweater vest. Be sure and change out the regular buttons on it for buttons with cat faces.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved that detail that they did for you. I did, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Six, you will need a color palette. It will be shades of gray and beige. Sometimes a pastel if you're feeling flirty. Seven, you will need only one Halloween costume to wear each year. It will be a cat, and you will make it yourself. Eight, Christmas is its own category. You will need some holiday plaid and you will always wear a Christmas brooch. Nine, should you find yourself by a lake, you will wear a bucket hat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ah, yes. Sun protection.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. 10, you will rarely wear dressy trousers, but if you do, they will need to be a dark color, nothing bright, nothing with a print design, nothing flashy. And that's how you can dress like Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, I would add to this that Angela Martin's hair was part of her overall look that was just as important as her costume. So I think you might want to add some sort of braid or tight bun to this list of how to dress like Angela Martin. I don't know. Is hair considered dressing? I kind of think it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. No. I think you will need to make sure that you have something high and tight and very groomed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

No hair out of place.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I do want to give a shout out. This is a gift that I treasure. I framed it. It hangs right outside my closet door. A wonderful artist named Morgan made such a beautiful watercolor for me, and it features several of Angela Martin's looks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. You know, Morgan is the artist who did Beasley's Botanicals.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where she made a little drawing of every one of the plants that was ever on Pam's desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And she made a mug out of it. I have it as a mug. I have the original. And then she made one of little. They're little like watercolors of all of your elaborate blouses.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And dresses. And I just love this so much. I'm going to share it in our stories. Morgan. I just. I Smile every day I see it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela. My area of interest is called Angela Martin. Fan theories.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, there's fan theories.

[Jenna Fischer]

There are many fan theories about Angela Martin. And I realize that, you know, some of them we've touched on, but many of them we haven't, I feel, like, discussed quite enough.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when we opened up our mailbag for questions for this episode. So many fan theory letters.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I mean, I feel like I know a few of them, but I didn't know there were many. Many.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we're gonna discuss three today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here is the first one from Frankie M. In Berkhampstead, uk. I was just rewatching Fun Run, and I realized that the death of Sprinkles and the breakdown of duangela's relationship is completely Pam's fault.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

She was organizing for people to visit Meredith in the hospital, and Angela said she couldn't go because of her cat. Pam guilts her into going anyway by bringing up the ppc, which is why Dwight is left in charge of Sprinkles. And Linda C. From Phoenix, Arizona, said, how do you feel about the theory that Pam is responsible for Sprinkle's death because she guilted Angela into visiting Meredith instead of going home at lunchtime?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like we touched on this a little bit when we broke down that episode, but, lady, so many letters, and there's, like, articles online about, is Pam really responsible for the death of Sprinkles?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, if Angela really connected with that. Look out, Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. I mean, here is my thought. I think Pam was kind of right to encourage Angela to visit Meredith in the hospital. But at the same time, like, as Jenna, if I knew how sick, like, someone's cat was, I would certainly excuse them from attending because Sprinkles really needed her medicine.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And unfortunately, Angela thought Dwight could handle it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

When he could not. Yeah. I think if. If it were me in that moment, I would just be like, here's a card. Give it to Meredith.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm gonna go check on my cat. I know, but, yeah, she kind of felt peer pressure a little bit.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I think it's fair to say that both Pam and Dwight contributed to Sprinkle's death. But then also, maybe Meredith did by getting hit by the car in the first place.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, then we need to point to Michael. Exactly.

[Jenna Fischer]

This goes. This trail goes bad.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe it's all the way to Michael for creating this moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kind of true. All right, fan theory number two. Oh, my gosh. This was also a fan mail flurry. People would like us to discuss. Are Garbage and Bandit the same cat just renamed from Alpha M in Utah? In Dunder Mifflin Infinity Part 1, Dwight releases a cat that he had trapped for Angela named Garbage, tries to win you over with Garbage. He releases this cat down in the warehouse area.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then In Money Part 2, Andy gives Angela a cat that he found in the warehouse in this same general area. So the theory goes that Garbage is the same cat.

[Angela Kinsey]

So basically, they're saying the cat that Dwight released into the warehouse and then the cat that Andy brings to Angela are one and the same.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, but then the cat that Angela gets from Andy is the same cat that lives in her drawer that then goes in the ceiling. So that must be Bandit. So the question is, from GenB in Crawford, Georgia, garbage is bandit. Right. Was the same cat used? Well, no, the same cat was not used. The cat that played Garbage is not the same cat that played. Played Bandit. However, we did talk about this in our breakdown of Money Part two, and you and I agreed, Angela, that we think that Garbage is the cat that Andy trapped and gave to Angela. We agreed that she renamed him Bandit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, we followed the logic that this is the same cat that was in the warehouse.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I remember that. And then I think I shared this. But just for everyone to know, the cat that played Garbage was one of the biggest cats I've ever held in my life.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was so big.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so big.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I don't think I could have put that cat up in the ceiling.

[Jenna Fischer]

So that's the question. Which is, like, was it intended to be the same cat? Like, is this theory like what was intended? And did we just switch cats? Because you couldn't physically throw the original cat up into the ceiling, we had to recast. Or was it like. We don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, we don't know. Except I do agree. I think that Garbage is Bandit, that Angela renames it. I also think Angela would never, ever call a cat Garbage. So if she was given that cat again from Andy, and she's trying to be spiteful to Dwight, and this time she's taking the cat, even though it was the same cat, she would rename it for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I went back and I watched this part of the episode where Angela discovers this cat in a box on her desk. There's a look that she shares with Dwight when she receives the cat, but then, thanks, Andy for it. And then Dwight's face just falls. He's so sad. And I think that she knows that the cat he gave her and now Andy's getting credit for it. Yeah, like she wouldn't accept it from Dwight, but she'll accept it from Andy. And it's like this extra dagger.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, because you would have to know, and Dwight would have to know how much willpower it would take for Angela not to accept a cat from anyone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Correct. All right, well, I enjoyed that discussion.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now we're moving into fan theory number three, which is that Angela is not really a vegetarian. Oh, lady, there is so much conflicting evidence.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a question for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Did people bring up the chicken piccata at the hospital? Okay, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So it all starts in email surveillance. She's at the barbecue, Jim offers her some barbecue, and Angela says, I'm a vegetarian. Then in business ethics, she only eats potato salad. This is when Meredith has slept with the rep and has gotten everyone's steak.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then there's other little moments where this idea of her being a vegetarian plays out. For example, Kate H. From Parkersburg, West Virginia, pointed out while watching Dinner Party, I noticed something that is a true testament to the attention to detail in the show. When everyone finally gets their long awaited dinner, Angela Martin covers the meat on her plate with a napkin. I thought it was so cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

I improvised that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just thought she wouldn't want to look at it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kate said, as a super fan, I know that Angela is a vegetarian, so it came as no surprise. But I love when there are little details that are callbacks or support a character's backstory. So wonderful support for that character backstory. But there are a lot of times when Angela seems to not be a vegetarian. For example, in Money, when Andy asks her out to dinner, she says she'll go, but she insists no vegetables and no seafood. What is she eating?

[Angela Kinsey]

Listen, I have two very good friends who are vegetarians, and they don't like vegetables and they don't like seafood.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do they eat?

[Angela Kinsey]

They eat a lot of, like, beans, pastas, but they don't want a Brussels sprout or carrots. Like, they eat potatoes. So that wasn't too far off the mark for me. She just might not like some vegetables.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, but then as you mentioned, Angela, how do you explain this one? In Jury Duty, she says Philip was conceived after, quote, too much wine and chicken piccata. And also in Moving on, she eats the meat stew with Aunt Shirley, which you said she did as a courtesy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I sort of thought maybe she just had the broth. The one that is the most puzzling to me is the chicken piccata, the wine sa. So I'm like, did she decide to eat meat when she was pregnant? She wasn't pregnant yet.

[Jenna Fischer]

No. No. That's how she got pregnant.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's how she got pregnant. That's the one that's like. That doesn't quite track.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep. Well, listen, why don't we take a break and when we come back we're gonna do our all about Angela Martin Q and A I'm so excited about this. You guys wrote in the best questions and I'm excited to hear the answers.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am too.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

From all nighters to all time personal bests.

[Jenna Fischer]

From building pillow forts to building a.

[Angela Kinsey]

Life for all the big and small.

[Jenna Fischer]

Moments that make up your whole world.

[Angela Kinsey]

DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com all.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right, we are back and I'm just so excited to dig into this Q and A section. Angela, I think the character that you developed is so just deliciously complex and interesting. She is full of surprises and she is nothing like you in real life. In fact, we got a letter that made me chuckle and I'd like to start with it. Okay, it's from Lisa in Calgary Alberta, who said, not a question, just a cute story for Angela. I was telling my mom, a new office fan who I got listening to the podcast, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thanks, Lisa.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Getting us new listeners. Yeah, I was telling my mom about the podcast, and my son Liam piped up and said, it is good. It's good to know Angela isn't a bee in real life.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thanks, Liam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Anytime we talk about the Office, he assures people that Angela is a really good actor and not really a bee.

[Angela Kinsey]

Liam out there spreading the good word for me.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know this family is doing a lot for us.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, let's dig into the questions. Question number one, it's a twofer first from Colette V in Long Island, New York. Hello, ladies. So I know you've poked fun at Jenna for her actory background prep, but I was wondering, Angela, how much of a background did you mentally develop for Angela Martin? Like, I wonder what happened in her upbringing that made her so particular? And then Eli B. From Maryland said, I'd like to know about Angela Kinsey's backstory for Angela Martin. Is she from Scranton? How did she end up at Dunder Mifflin? Why did she choose accounting?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, Colette and Eli, those are great questions. You know, I never thought Angela was from Scranton. I saw her sort of like my friends that I grew up with in Indonesia whose parents were in the military, and they moved around a lot, which might also explain her need for structure and why she liked Dwight. And I also saw her as someone that needed order and rules, and I think that's why she picked accounting. You know, numbers make sense.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And as far as my actor prep, you know, I'm a people watcher, and I kind of collect characters as I go through life. I'll jot down little notes about people I meet. Jenna, I'll leave you messages about people who I think are great characters. We kind of do that all the time with each other.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do it more, though, Angela, in your descriptions of people you've observed, they're always so loving and so detailed, and you find, like, just in the world, you find so many characters. This is so true about you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I think people are so fascinating, you know, and I usually mesh a few of those different people when I start to create a role. So for Angela Martin, she was a combination of this woman who I worked with at 1-800-Dentist. She was the office manager. She was in charge of front reception, the mailroom. And I've shared this before on the podcast, she was in charge of Planning the Christmas party, the big company Christmas party. And she was allowed a few people to help her, and you got a little extra money and I signed up to do it. But, man, was this party high stakes for her. She took it so seriously. And I've shared this before, but she literally yelled at me because I was doing a Christmas bow incorrectly on the stair banister leading into the party. She was like, let me do it. I was like, okay. So I had that lady in mind. And then the second person I used for Angela Martin was my grandmother. Now, she wasn't judgy or mean, but she was very, very proper. She was just a very proper lady. She always dressed up for the day. She wore lots of brooches, and she had a lot of cats. She had this barn, and she had all these barn cats that she would feed. I mean, I remember one time going over there and I looked out the back door because it was getting near dinner time and there were so many cats. And part of my family lore story is that as her eyesight grew worse as she aged, one time a bobcat came up to the back door. Oh, my gosh. And she fed the bobcat.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And she was like, oh, I've got the biggest cat. And we were all there one time, and it walked up. My dad was like, mom, that's a bobcat. So that is also part of Angela Martin for me now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that why you had a picture of her on your desk?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes, I had a picture of her. And I. It was a black and white photo. It was in a frame that said, I heart Grandma, and my eyes are closed in the picture.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so wonderful.

[Angela Kinsey]

But she would do that. She would frame pictures of you and there would be someone's finger over the lens, but it went in a frame. You know, it didn't matter if your eyes were open or closed. She was going to put it in a frame and display it. Another thing I drew on as I shaped Angela Martin was actually. And I've never shared this before. I have never told you this, Jenna. What? So when I was doing all my auditions, you know, I auditioned first for Pam, and then between that time and when I came in for Angela Martin was several months. And I had started reading the book the Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I look back now on that, and I think about how informing that book was for me as I went in. I didn't know, you know, I didn't know was going to audition for Angela Martin. It just sort of happened. And I was immersed in this world of, like, 1870s New York society. It was the golden age. There were all these social rules. There was repressed feelings and unconsummated love. And I just feel like Angela is someone that would have felt right at home in an older, more conservative world, for sure. And that's what I was reading when I went in to audition, and I'd sort of forgotten about that. And then I went back to my journal that I was keeping that year, and I wrote in my journal about this book and how I kept thinking about it, and I kept thinking about these characters and how the ending broke my heart. And that's what I was reading when I went in for my audition.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am getting chills at the serendipity of that. How there are these times in an artist's life where there are things that are informing your art and your career, and you don't even know it. You don't even know, like, why you're doing it or how it's gonna happen. It's this, like, it's part of the weird magic of our industry and what we do. That. Oh, my God, I love that story so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I was sort of inviting this creative narrative I didn't even realize I was inviting. And when I went in to read for the role of, at the time, just the persnickety accountant. Right. I made this choice to have really, really good proper posture. And I sat shoulders back, like, straight up, and almost to the point where, like, I got a back, like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because you were really forcing this posture.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's how I went in the room with this posture. And I think that book sort of was informing me. So I sort of feel like I went in there with this sort of, like, Persona. I didn't even realize.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I just love that so much. Now, lady. I have usually been reaching out to Greg about the origin of people's names, but you said you played a part. I mean, obviously Angela is Angela, but that you played a part in how she got the last name Martin. Will you share?

[Angela Kinsey]

I will. So Greg came over to the accounting department, and he was like, hey, you guys, we need last names for you. And we were like, oh. He goes, why don't you jot down a few that you think fit your character? And we were like, okay. And Brian felt very strongly about Malone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And that connection to the Irish.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And I wrote a few down. And one of the ones I wrote was Martin. At the time, I had a friend. Like, we were, like, all in our 20s, and his name was Martin, and I thought, oh, that might be kind of fun. I didn't even really think about it. And me and Brian and Oscar talk about this, but Greg ended up picking Malone, Martin and Martinez.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. The three M's of accounting.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. So we always thought that would be a fun spinoff, you know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. And Ms. Accounting firm.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Well, Angela, we got a fun letter from someone about your name, Angela Martin. And it made me laugh because, remember, we did have a discussion about Mensa.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. They didn't let you in?

[Jenna Fischer]

They didn't let me in. I didn't.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm sure I'm not in either.

[Jenna Fischer]

I didn't make it it. But here is a really fun share from Emily L. In Charlotte, North Carolina, who said, hello. I recently joined Mensa and was checking out their website to see what they offer to members. First of all, Emily, congratulations. Yeah, Emily said they have a gift shop online and various things to purchase. I saw they have membership certificates that you can purchase with your name on them. Well, all of the examples say Angela Martin.

[Angela Kinsey]

No way.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, Angela. Angela Martin is the Mensa certificate shop store, I guess, template example. It's so amazing. She put a link. So we're going to have to link to this in stories.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm looking up Mensa right now. I'm looking up the website.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's mensastore.com collections members.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Gosh. Just so you guys know, Minsa has a lot of merch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, really?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. But she's absolutely right. If you go to that link and I'll put it in our stories, it says Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

There you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's so funny. I wonder if someone that does merch for Mensa is an office fan.

[Jenna Fischer]

They must be. And also, this does beg the question, do you think Angela Martin is in Mensa?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do as well. This is why life is so frustrating to her.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, that was just question number one. Look at how much wonderful information we got from just one question. Here's question two. We've talked so much on the show, Ange, about how different you are from your character. I mean, anyone who listens to the podcast can hear that. And we had a lot of people write in about the differences between you and your character. For example, Amanda E. From Illinois said, I'm so excited for this episode because I think Angela is one of the most underrated characters in the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aww.

[Jenna Fischer]

A question I'm curious about, and I'm sure many people will ask, is how did it feel to play a character that has a demeanor so opposite of your natural self? Was it difficult to play a cold and stony character for almost a decade?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, well, Amanda, that's. That's really nice of you to say all of that. You know, Angela Martin was just an escape for me in real life. I am not a very confrontational person. I don't like to make a fuss. So getting to play someone who's not afraid to just let people have it was. It was actually really fun. I do have to say I had the hardest time being mean to Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Phyllis is literally the nicest person on.

[Angela Kinsey]

The earth, and she just has the sweetest his face. And it was so hard to be mean to her. And I did struggle with how judgy Angela could be. And I also struggled with all the buns.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, literally headaches.

[Angela Kinsey]

Headaches like the pulled hair and the bobby pins. I don't know how people wear such high, tight buns for hours and hours. And, you know, my friends did joke that, like, if I would go and meet them out after work after a day of filming, like, you know, go do improv or whatever, they said I would have resting bitch face. That I had spent all day not allowing myself to smile. And people, I've had strangers, like, stop me and be like, hey, you okay? And I'm like, what? No, I'm great. But I guess I just have this, like, scowly frown on my face.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did you feel like that finally went away after the show ended? Do you still get that from people?

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like, no, not as much anymore. I think my face is finally relaxed. It took years, though.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I have a question, sort of a follow up, which is how has playing the role of Angela Martin affected you in real life? I mean, I know you said people would stop you on the street, or I guess another way to say it is, like, how has it affected your career being so known for a type of person that is, like, so different from who you are? And we also got a fan letter from Kelly W. In West Africa, Oregon, Ontario. Kelly, you get around Kelly, who said, Angela Martin has quickly become my absolute favorite character. She always has the best reactions and also fully embodies the concept of schneidenfreude. Look it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Schneidenfreude. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Knowing Angela's true personality now makes it an even more outstanding performance. My question is, was Angela being typecast before the office or did it begin afterwards? And have you had to work hard to get different roles? Oh, gosh, it's A lot of questions.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just threw it. Yes, it is. Well, you know, no, Angela was the first bitch I ever played.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And Greg did say to me, you know, there's good career safety because in an office, there's always one bitch. So he said, that's actually job security.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. For future office related projects.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. But, you know, so after the Office, I did. I got a series of roles where people wanted me to play the persnickety lady. Yeah, I had a few jobs right after the office. One was on New Girl, and I did not play the bitch on that one. So that was fun. But I did get a series of offers to play the bitch, and I only took one because it was with Betty White. It was Hot in Cleveland.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's a good one.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I was like, I have. I mean, she's just this legend, and I just want to occupy the same space with her just once. And I was trying not to just go back to that well of like, oh, people are wanting to cast me as the Persnick v. Lady. But I remember telling my agents, yes, I will do it. I will absolutely do it. And I found an interview where I was asked about it. I was on the set of Hot in Cleveland, and here's what I had to say. Hello, my name is Angela Kinsey, and I will be playing Dr. Teresa Carson. I am the headmistress of a snooty preschool, and I'm Joy in Cleveland. Wow, that is a big hand. She reminds me a little bit of my office character and the fact that she's. Well, she takes everything very seriously, but she wears a lot better suits. You know, I met Betty White and she held my hand when we were talking, and I was like. She told me she's, like, so cute.

[Jenna Fischer]

I want to hug her.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I. I don't know why everyone's so tall. Minus Betty, of course. Betty's taller than me because, you know, I'm 5:1. But no, it's like the land of tall people. This week we also have guest starring Craig Ferguson, who I love. He's already cracking me up. So I'm a little worried about Tape Night because he looks at me with the goofiest look on his face so many times in the scene, and I just lose it. So, yeah, I realized I was playing another version of Angela Martin on that show, but I just was so delighted. But it is one reason why I was so thrilled to be in Haters Back off on Netflix and the Tall Girl movies because I got to play sort of Just like these moms that were very interesting characters, but they weren't bitchy.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then your Hallmark Christmas movie, oh, my gosh. Is maybe the closest thing to you in real life. Probably just like you love a holiday.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do love a holiday.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're a good neighbor.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm not gonna make everyone wear a onesie all day, though.

[Jenna Fischer]

You. That's true. You love a holiday, but you don't force people to dress up or anything.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's true.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, Angela, question number four. We got this fan question from Ella M. In Louisiana, who said, angela, your character changes so much over the course of nine seasons. She shows emotion to Dwight and even Pam at times. In early seasons, she's strictly private and severe, but toward the end, she is more open with her co workers and shows different sides of herself. How did you show this new emotional side of Angela that people sympathize with in the later seasons while also still maintaining her stern personality? And also, Kristin, A. From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, said, looking back on Angela's journey, is there a particular moment where you feel she grew the most as a character or one that you were particularly proud of her?

[Angela Kinsey]

Such thoughtful questions. I'm really just moved by the time and care that people put into writing these questions.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. So good. Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

So nice of them. One of the things I loved about the fact that our show was on for nine years is that you really felt the passage of time with these characters with this world, and all of the characters got progressively more comfortable with the documentary crew being there. Just naturally you would. And I do think a lot of the characters over time evolved and changed. And I always felt like, for Angela, it was the love of Dwight that helped her come out of her shell. And he challenged her in so many ways, and she loved the challenge. It made her try new things and meet new people and do experiences that she would have never done, except that she loved him. And I think she was the better for us.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Angela, do you have a moment where you were particularly proud of the character?

[Angela Kinsey]

I was most proud of Angela's growth with her relationship to Oscar.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I always truly saw Oscar as Angela Martin's best friend in the office. He's who she would talk to and commiserate with, and they had the same taste as men.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And although they certainly had their differences of opinion and they would often butt heads, I always believed she really cared for him. So I was really happy when the writers wrote the arc where Oscar offers Angela and baby Philip to come live with him. I loved their dynamic as roommates that was so much fun to play. And if you watch the wedding of Dwight and Angela, it is Oscar who is taking care of baby Philip. So she trusts him with the things that matter most to her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, that's beautiful.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So that growth and that relationship meant a lot to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, Angela, you also mentioned Johangela Lady. I know that you and Rayn share a special bond after playing one another's fictional love interests for nine years. Can you talk a little bit about it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's so interesting to me because pretty much right away, the first time we had to be in a scene together where there was this undercurrent of romance. You know, we just had an instant chemistry. And he had sat at that desk across the way for a while. You know, I don't know. I didn't ever see who Angela's relationship would be in the office. Like, I just assumed she would have a relationship outside of the office. And the minute the writers wrote that storyline, it just instantly made so much sense. And I remember at the table read, when it was revealed that their Birkenstocks were rubbing back and forth at Jim's barbecue, the whole table, like the whole room let out this like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And there was like light bulb, light bulb. Like everyone. It was like, oh my gosh. Of course, of course Dwight and Angela. I hadn't thought of it at all. You know, and then we didn't get much direction about our characters and who they were to each other in this relationship. We were given great dialogue, but all the rest of it just really happened spontaneously. I think it was just Rain being Dwight and me being Angela Martin. It just all kind of happened. You know, you've said that thing where when you auditioned with John, it was like you guys were doing this dance, but neither of you even knew it.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, it was as if they turned on a song and John and I both started dancing the same dance routine, but we'd never talked about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's exactly what I felt with Rayn. I knew whatever he did as Dwight, it was so instinctively in me how Angela would respond. And doing those scenes with him were such a joy. And it's also funny. And I think maybe why we have chemistry because we really are like brother and sister. And we really just teased the crap out of each other and were real smart asses to one another. We just played doubles tennis together a while back and he came up to me and he was like, I think they're hitting them too, because they know they'll get the point. They're avoiding me. And I said, rain, they've hit them to you. You couldn't run and get that. You literally do some cardio. You know what I mean? We just kind of always go at each other, like. But it's always loving. And my favorite thing is when I get a text from him that's like, hey, idiot, I miss you. And I'm like, I miss you too, dumbass. But, yeah, it was just there. I don't know how to explain it.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, lady. During our All About Pam episode, I shared about the music I listened to that made me cry as Pam. And you said you would share your Angela crying song, so do tell.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, when I first started acting, I had taken a class that explored emotions and scenes. You know, we would take a scene, we would write markers alongside the dialogue that would show the emotion going on in the subtext of whatever we were saying. And as part of that class, we explored how music can affect you and help you be prepared for a scene that has a lot of emotion. We had to pick a song, go up on stage, sit in a chair by ourselves, facing the entire class. The teacher would hit play, and then we would have to slowly cry throughout the song in front of everyone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so daunting and terrifying. And I did it. And this is the song I picked. It's called that's the Way Love Goes. I've been throwing horseshoes over my left.

[Jenna Fischer]

Shoulder Older I've spent most all my.

[Angela Kinsey]

Life Searching for that four leaf clover.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yet you ran with me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Chasing my rainbow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Honey, I love you, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

And.

[Jenna Fischer]

That'S the way love goes okay, so you seem like you're getting a little choked up even just listening to that clip. Does it still trigger you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I mean, okay, when I picked that song, my dad was still alive, but my dad loved Merle Haggard, okay? He loved all the old country musicians. And the interesting thing for me now is that I think that song always just made me think of just this unconditional love that I had from my family and what that means to me now for me, when I have to get emotional in a scene, I don't need the song anymore. I think a lot of life has happened to me, and I will sort of tap into some of the sadness that life has brought. And then you're there. And so I think think hearing that song now and sharing it with you, because I've never shared it with you before, and you're someone who holds such a special place in My heart that I just thought about, like, how thankful I am to have you in my life and to have this job that we get to do together. So my tears and my emotion are very connected to the fact that, like, I feel so safe sharing with you, Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

So that's kind of why I got a little teary, is that I was like, it felt so lovely to be able to share something like that with you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, thank you, lady. I'm so glad that we're doing this episode and that you're getting to share so much about your process and your approach to character. Because as we all know, I will drone on and on and on about my process as I am a nerdy, nerdy theater nerdy nerd. And I love to break down character. I love to talk to other actors about how they do it. You do not often share those things. You're very, very humble. But you are a very technically proficient actor. You are a thoughtful actor. You add complexities to your character. And this has been such a joy, getting to draw that out of you for the world to know, which I knew, but for the world to hear the time and care that you, you put into your acting work. Oh, I've loved it.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is your theater nerd dream.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And also because I'm getting to get you to talk about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I don't know why. I'm very shy about it. I don't know what that is. I just sort of keep more of that to myself, maybe because I feel a little vulnerable sharing about it. But I'm happy to do it here with you.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, well, to finish things up, we got a couple questions about what has happened to Angela since the show has ended. We got a question from Emily M. In Brisbane, Australia, who said, Ms. Angela, can I ask where you see Dwight and Angela now? Did they have more children? Did Angela get her pair of small, well behaved boys in the end? I would love to hear your thoughts on Dwight and Angela and how their life played out together. Miranda B. From Brazil was wondering, did Angela stop working at Dunder Mifflin after they got married? Oscar has her position as head of the accounting department, and Dwight describes Angela as his, quote, former accountant. But do you think she would be happy being a homemaker? Because I've always felt that Angela is the kind of woman who likes having a career. Finally, Gavin J. From Cardiff, Wales, said, when Angela's cats got taken away by animal control near the end of season nine after leaving Senator Robert Lipton, did she eventually get them back. Please say yes. As a cat dad, I hope the answer is a positive one. So Angela, where are Dwight and Angela? Did they have more kids? Did she keep working and did she get her cats back?

[Angela Kinsey]

First of all, this is a very international question. We have Australia, Brazil and whales. That is awesome. Okay, you guys, here are my thoughts. I definitely think Dwight and Angela had more children. I definitely think she got her pair of well behaved boys and I think they're very happy. I think they found their person and they're living their life on that beet farm. I think. Miranda, in answer to your question, I think that Angela is probably running the bed and breakfast on Schrute Farms.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is. Yes. Oh, I like that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think she would probably wanna be a very hands on mom. So I think she would probably even maybe homeschool. But I think she is running the bed and breakfast and I think she does all the bookkeeping for the farm. It's a very big property, you know. It's a very big property. So I think she does the bookkeeping. The Schrutes now also own the business part. So I think Angela has quite a bit of accounting that she's still doing. And lastly, Gavin, I do think she got all of her cats back.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh good.

[Angela Kinsey]

A hundred percent. And I think they're all on the farm. I mean there was a deleted scene that was written that her cats attack the doves that are released at her wedding.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I do think all of her cats are there on the farm. Don't you worry about.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, lady, I loved this episode. All about Angela Martin and Angela Kinsey's birthday.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was super fun. And before we go, I wanted to give a shout out to Kaylee from Tyler, Texas. I have driven through Tyler many times and Kaylee said she felt a real connection to Angela Martin. And here is what she wrote. I just want to send some love for my girl Angela Martin. She is the character I relate to the most most though hopefully not the bitchiness and judgment. And I think she doesn't get enough credit as a rule follower and introvert who often feels more comfortable holding some boundaries between my work life and my personal life. Angela makes sense to me. She's not perfect by any stretch, but she's a hard working, dedicated woman who is a reasonable person in a very unreasonable workplace. In the Dundees, it's funny when she refuses to get up and accept the tight ass award, but in real life, Michael is beyond inappropriate.

[Jenna Fischer]

It.

[Angela Kinsey]

Angela stands up for herself by saying no. And I appreciate that. And one Last thought, having a theme for a party can make it more fun, even if she might be a little too strict sometimes. So thank you, Angela Martin, for making all of us, quote, buy the book, work until 5 spreadsheet, making people out there feel seen. I love you both.

[Jenna Fischer]

Aww.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thanks, Kaylee.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kaylee, I love your take on Angela Martin. I love that you're relating to all those things. What a great episode. Thank you, everybody.

[Angela Kinsey]

And thank you guys all so much for your questions. They were so just really wonderful. And I hope this wasn't too much Angela Martin for everyone. But what a great, fun birthday and I can't wait to have some of my cake. I will not eat it on the mic, but I am about to have a piece of birthday cake.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, everyone, thanks for writing in. We'll see you next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

See you then.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubico.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Rees Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Repertory by Craig Pratten.