An Interview with Allison Jones

Summary

Office Ladies Podcast Episode Summary: An Interview with Allison Jones

Podcast Information:

• Title: Office Ladies
• Hosts: Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
• Episode: An Interview with Allison Jones
• Release Date: November 6, 2024

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Introduction

In this illuminating episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey delve deep into the world behind the scenes of The Office by interviewing the esteemed casting director, Allison Jones. Known for her pivotal role in shaping the beloved characters of the series, Allison shares her extensive experience, casting philosophies, and memorable anecdotes that highlight the making of one of television's most iconic sitcoms.

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Allison Jones: A Pillar in Casting

Allison Jones boasts an illustrious career, having cast for numerous hit TV shows and blockbuster movies. Her portfolio includes renowned series like Family Ties, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Parks and Recreation, Arrested Development, The Good Place, and of course, The Office. In the realm of cinema, she's lent her expertise to films such as Barbie, Superbad, Bridesmaids, and Stepbrothers.

Notable Quote:

Allison Jones [03:04]: "Listen, if you are a fan of movies and television, chances are you have seen Allison's name on some of your favorite programs."

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The Casting Journey of The Office

Allison provides an in-depth look into the challenges and triumphs of casting The Office. Tasked with adapting the British original for an American audience, she emphasized the importance of maintaining the show's essence without merely duplicating its characters.

Key Points:

• Authenticity Over Imitation: Allison aimed to cast real people who could bring genuine authenticity to the show, avoiding the cliché of younger actors playing teenage roles.
• Collaborative Process: Working closely with Greg Daniels, she highlighted the collaborative efforts in shaping the show's vision and casting the right talent.
• Memorable Casting Moments: Allison recounts the audition process, including the heartfelt moments when casting decisions significantly impacted the show and the actors involved.

Notable Quote:

Allison Jones [35:11]: "Finding the right person for the right role is what makes casting special. It’s about matching talent with opportunity."

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Evolution of Audition Processes

The podcast explores how auditioning has evolved, especially with the advent of self-taping, a trend accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Allison discusses the benefits and challenges of remote auditions compared to the traditional in-person reads she was accustomed to.

Key Points:

• Self-Taping Advantages: Increased accessibility for actors nationwide, allowing casting directors to see a broader range of talent without geographical constraints.
• Maintaining Authenticity: Despite technological advancements, Allison emphasizes the importance of capturing an actor's true essence, whether in-person or on tape.
• Emotional Toll: She shares the difficult aspects of her role, such as delivering rejection notices, while also celebrating the joys of discovering new talent.

Notable Quote:

Allison Jones [16:05]: "Actors need to have tenacity. You have to be ready for when the right opportunity comes your way."

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Personal Anecdotes and Memorable Moments

Jenna and Angela share personal stories about their interactions with Allison, highlighting how her casting decisions directly influenced their careers on The Office. From Jenna's persistent callbacks to Angela's memorable auditions, the hosts illustrate the profound impact Allison had on bringing their characters to life.

Key Points:

• Jenna Fischer's Journey: Allison's unwavering belief in Jenna, despite numerous auditions, ultimately secured her the role of Pam Beesly.
• Angela Kinsey's Audition: Angela recounts her experience auditioning for The Office, emphasizing Allison's supportive approach and the heartfelt moments shared during the process.
• Behind-the-Scenes Insights: Discussions about on-set dynamics, memorable episodes, and the lasting legacy of The Office underscore Allison's crucial role in the show's success.

Notable Quote:

Angela Kinsey [57:36]: "We know we wouldn't be here without you, Allison. Truly, it means so much to us."

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Advice for Aspiring Actors

Allison shares invaluable advice for actors navigating the competitive landscape of casting. She underscores the importance of persistence, preparation, and maintaining authenticity throughout the audition process.

Key Points:

• Tenacity: Actors must remain resilient, continually honing their craft and seizing opportunities as they arise.
• Readiness: Building a consistent body of work ensures actors are prepared when casting directors like Allison reach out.
• Authenticity: Staying true to oneself during auditions allows genuine talent to shine through, making a lasting impression.

Notable Quote:

Allison Jones [54:47]: "The best part of casting is getting these people you believe in finally getting them the gigs. It takes so long, but it's wonderfully rewarding."

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Listener Appreciation and Impact

Throughout the interview, Jenna and Angela share heartfelt messages from listeners who express immense gratitude for Allison's contributions to the entertainment industry. These testimonials highlight the far-reaching impact of her work, not just on the show but on the careers of countless actors.

Notable Quote:

Listener Brenna C. [52:42]: "You have been directly responsible for the most beloved characters on our screens. That does not go unnoticed by fans."

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Conclusion

This episode of Office Ladies offers a captivating glimpse into the art of casting through the eyes of Allison Jones. Her dedication, expertise, and heartfelt approach have left an indelible mark on The Office and the broader entertainment landscape. Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey's engaging conversation not only celebrates Allison's achievements but also provides aspiring actors with inspiration and guidance for their own journeys.

Closing Thought:

Allison Jones [54:47]: "For actors, tenacity and readiness are key. Keep building your body of work, and the right opportunity will find you."

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Feel free to listen to the full episode for a comprehensive understanding of Allison Jones' pivotal role in shaping The Office and her enduring influence in the world of casting.

Transcript

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

That is my favorite thing. It makes December so much more pleasurable to me when I can get my gifts out of the way.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, shop early and score the best deals before they're gone. Visit macy's.com through November 23rd for early black Friday deals.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know if you're getting your wardrobe ready for the cold of winter and you're stocking up on some new cozy sweaters or maybe you're looking for something just a little sparkly for a party. Coming up. You can check out Quint's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Quint's has such good deals. We've talked about this before. We have shopped on Quint's. You can get a cashmere sweater for $50.

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Oh, and a weighted blanket just makes you feel so snuggly.

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They're able to do it by partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman. And then they kind of pass that savings on to the consumer. And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices.

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That's Q U I N C E.com officeladies to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

The Office Ladies 6.0.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello everyone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hey.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was so fun to hear. Our new intro.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we are very excited today. We are going to kick off Office Ladies 6.0 with an interview you've all been asking for. Casting director Allison Jones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I can't think of a better person to have as our first interview for Office Lady 6.0. And she is one of the most requested guests you guys have written in about.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. When we go through suggestions of people that Office Ladies fans wanted to hear from, the overwhelming winner is Allison Jones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Listen, if you are a fan of movies and television, chances are you have seen Allison's name on some of your favorite programs. Here are just a few. Okay. She helped cast Family Ties, Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Freaks and Geeks, Spin City, Undeclared, Parks and Recreation, Arrested Development, the Good Place, Rutherford Falls, Curb youb Enthusiasm, and of course, the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

She also casts movies. I'm going to say some movie titles.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do It.

[Jenna Fischer]

Barbie, Ladybird, Talladega Nights, 40 Year Old Virgin, Superbad, Thunder Force, Knocked Up, Sing Ghostbusters, Funny People, Bridesmaids, Stepbrothers. Oh, my gosh. I mean, there's so many.

[Angela Kinsey]

So many. We didn't even list them all. We didn't even come close. This woman is a powerhouse and has forever made her mark on the entertainment industry. And Jenna, before we play our interview with Allison, I thought we might want to answer this fan question.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's from Amelia in Akron, Ohio. Jenna and Angela, what unique gift does Allyson bring to the casting experience compared to other casting directors you've worked with?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I think when you listen to our interview with her, you are going to hear what a thoughtful and engaging person she is. And for me, going in to meet with her was very different from meeting with other casting directors. She has a real curiosity about people, and I felt like she was very interested in getting to know me as a person as well as me as a performer.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's exactly it. When I walked into her office, I was nervous, but she was instantly so calming to me, and I felt like she was working with me. That's how I felt. She wanted me to do the best performance I could, and I really felt that from her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we asked you guys to send in your questions for Allison, and you sent in so many fantastic questions, and we tried to ask her as many as we could.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is such a fantastic interview with an amazing woman. Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, Alison Jones is here. Let's go. Peloton.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, sweet Peloton. I love my Peloton. Peloton has workouts for every mood. My general mood is I don't feel like doing this, but Cody Rigsby, he gets me there.

[Angela Kinsey]

You love Cody. Here's what I like about Peloton. I love the variety of training programs because I'm not going to want the same workout that Josh wants. We're super different, and Peloton has something for both of us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, there's so many ways to challenge yourself. If you're training for a 5k, a 10k, a marathon, they have programs for strength training. They've got boot camps. Oh my gosh, they have pilates. They have just great stretching.

[Angela Kinsey]

And their coaches are really motivating. They keep you going.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Hello, Allison.

[Allison Jones]

Hello.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so fun to have you in the studio.

[Allison Jones]

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not just Alison in the studio, but three bins of stuff that you brought from your storage facility.

[Allison Jones]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

You also brought us absolutely gorgeous floral arrangements.

[Allison Jones]

Well, you deserve them. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're so pretty. And we have a little something for you because you're our very first guest on office lady 6.0.

[Allison Jones]

Thank you so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is for you.

[Allison Jones]

Thank you. Can't wait. I've been looking at it to see what it is.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, the folks at Odyssey helped us make these for our guests moving forward, and we're so tickled.

[Allison Jones]

This is fantastic.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, turn it around, turn it around.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, my Gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, tell people what it says.

[Allison Jones]

World's best podcast guest. Woo hoo. That's fantastic. It's a mug. And who drew the cartoon?

[Angela Kinsey]

Our friend Ileana.

[Allison Jones]

It's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, she's a great artist.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah. I remember fondly sitting across from Steve when he was testing for the pilot and he had the world's best boss mug holding it. And he was reading his monologue audition and he was holding this. So very good. Yay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Allison, we told our fans we were going to be interviewing you and they sent in a ton of questions and I thought we could kick things off with this one. This is from Chelsea Frazier In Greenville, S.C. chelsea asked, did you go to college? And if so, what did you study? I'd imagine that casting would take someone who's good with people, like maybe sociology or communications. But I'm curious where Allison built that amazing ability to spot a good fit.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, God bless you, Chelsea. That's a good question. I did indeed go to college. Not for any kind of media anything. I went. I grew up back east and I went to college in Los Angeles at Pomona College. And I was an art major and a math minor. After that I went to business school, of all places, at ucla, got an MBA degree, went to work in advertising for a year in New York City. I didn't like it. I was miserable. And a friend of mine from business school, Lydia Woodward, who is a very successful writer, producer, she wrote, er, et cetera, China Beach, a lot of shows. She said, I'm at afi. It's a gas. You should come out and do it. You can get good loans, student loans. So I did that and I went to the American Film Institute. And after afi, I needed a job. And my same friend Lydia said, I think you'd like casting because you remember faces. So I just applied for. That was when you had to type letters to try to get an interview and you had to follow up the letter with a phone call. Anyway, one person called me back and I got the job with a casting director named Judith Wiener, the late Judith Weiner, who at the time was doing a lot of comedy for Whit Thomas Harris. And this is the mid-80s. And so I started doing a lot of comedy. Then I started doing a lot of comedy. My own taste was definitely developed just by having a bunch of brothers and sisters. And my own vibe was developed.

[Jenna Fischer]

How many brothers and sisters do you have?

[Allison Jones]

I have five.

[Jenna Fischer]

So you're one of six.

[Allison Jones]

I'm one of six. And we were all into things like in the 60s and 70s, we worshiped the Three Stooges. We worshiped Rona Martin's laughing. We worshiped a lot of comedy back then. Peter Sellers, Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau. Anyway, that was definitely developed for me by my older siblings, and we all were big comedy fans.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, you know, Alison, my dad would enter a room and he would go.

[Allison Jones]

Into, oh, it was like Walter Mathau.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I didn't know what he was doing till years later.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, my God. And then I watched, quote lines from the Odd Couple in the Party, Peter Sellers forever and ever.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this next question is one that we ask all of our guests.

[Allison Jones]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is, how did you get your job on the Office?

[Allison Jones]

Okay. I think I had just finished doing a show called Freaks and Geeks, and I think Greg Daniels liked the realness of the actors that we hired on Freaks and Geeks, which was the first time I had ever been asked to cast a show like that. It was kind of. When you look back, it was pretty earth shattering to cast teenagers who were not like, you know, then we called them WB people. The WB, the gorgeous kids who were 28 playing 18, because everyone had to be so pretty.

[Angela Kinsey]

And everyone.

[Allison Jones]

Everyone had to be Dawson's Creek. And they were all in their mid-20s playing, you know, 17, 18. But Paul Feig and Judd Apatow were like, we just want real kids. And I understood immediately, being having been one of those myself then they were making a lot more teen shows than they do now. So having pretty well versed in the teens stuff, it was the kids who didn't get the show I did right before that called Roswell High, who I brought in for Freaks and Geeks, who I remembered were so good. And they came in like James Franco, Jason Siegel. They came in and they were right for Freaks and Geeks. Jill Greenberg, my colleague in New York, and Corrine Mares, my colleague in Vancouver, equally major in doing the pilot of Freaks and Geeks. With getting the real kids, Seth Rogen and Jill Greenberg found Sam Levine. But anyway, Greg, I think just like the way that was cast. And so he called me in and I interviewed, and I was so nervous because I. HBO had just started airing the British Office at the same time they had also started airing Leg. So it was like, what is this brand new, unbelievably smart, funny way they're doing comedy in Britain? It's incredible. So anyway, I was so excited to get an interview for the Office. I'm sure he interviewed quite a few people. Greg is thorough. We had a good talk And Greg was, you know, he's very thoughtful about his process and I appreciate that. But I got that with Greg. I think there were probably a lot, a handful of casting people who interviewed for it, as we still have to interview for all of our jobs, like actors. And we do the same things. We beat ourselves up after an interview.

[Phyllis Smith]

God, why did I say that?

[Allison Jones]

That was stupid.

[Angela Kinsey]

Allison, with your resume, you still interview. They don't look at everything you've done and just say, give me Alison Jones, please.

[Allison Jones]

Not always. Believe it or not. I know, I know. I agree. For half hours. I still have to sometimes, which is sad to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, I got a call to play the bitch on a show recently and they wanted me to come in and read. And I always do.

[Allison Jones]

I always do.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was traveling and I was like going to miss the window to audition. And I said, you know, if they want to see me play a bitch, ask them to watch the first nine years of the Office. Like, just ask them to watch nine seasons, any episode.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they'll find the bitch.

[Allison Jones]

Wow. I'm sorry about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's okay.

[Allison Jones]

An excruciating part of my job is having to have people come in who should never have to audition. And still people, young producers, young directors, young studio people, young everything, have to see people read because they don't have imagination. Like, I have a fine tuned imagination about taking someone their personality and seeing if it can be transferred into an acting thing, which is a large part, I will say, of how the Judd Apatow, Paul Feig office School of comedy came along. Because we have to look beyond how people do line readings and see what they're like as people again. People like Judd and huge comedy geniuses who sort of started this whole real comedy kind of vibe or improv y kind of comedy vibe. They'll see what they can bring to it as opposed to see how they read the lines that you wrote. Yeah, it doesn't have to be word for word, you know. And people who are funnier than anything that's written on the page get a chance to improvise, like Steve Carell and some of the early Second City people who came to town when I first met them, Nia Vardalos and Steve Carell, people like that who were a Second City back in the early 90s probably would come in and bless them all, not be the greatest auditioners. Comedy doesn't always translate well into auditioning with somebody else's sitcom jokes and punching the lines up. And back in the 90s, if you didn't on book, as they say. I think producers were horrified. No, she changed that line. I can't hire them. But with the onslaught of a lot of improv comedy, from standup comedy to improv comedy, casting. One of the sad things is having to have people read who absolutely don't need to read.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I don't.

[Allison Jones]

I normally we all feel that way. I guarantee all casting people have great empathy for actors or believe me, we wouldn't be doing this.

[Jenna Fischer]

I talk to aspiring actors, sometimes go into their classes and take questions. And one of the things that I always really try to tell people is that the casting director is rooting for you. They want nothing more than for you to come in and be great. Because if you're great, their job is done and they have found you and it's exciting to them. So they are absolutely rooting for you. And. And I say, like, it's okay to ask a question. Let them help you get this job.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, yeah, that's perfect. That's perfect. I mean, now it's still a little bit different because now I think the trend has headed to a lot of self taping.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Allison Jones]

Which for me, self taping is better for. Like a lot of pre reads when you. I can meet infinitely more people with pre tape with.

[Jenna Fischer]

We should tell people what a pre tape is. That's where if you get an audition for a show, they email you the materials and then in your house, you put yourself on tape reading the scene and then you send it back to the casting director. But back when we were auditioning, it was more common that you would have to physically go into the casting office and sit across from someone like Phyllis or someone like you. And you read the scene with us.

[Allison Jones]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we could even get maybe a little notes or feedback in the moment. But now it really is a lot more. Since COVID especially you send in a tape of yourself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Well, I think it's less stressful.

[Allison Jones]

I think so too. And I think actors, we now give people the choice, they'll often pick. I don't want to drive across town at 2:00 and I can do 10 takes at home. Those are considered pre reads. I mean, and then they go to the producers and then we still have auditions with producers, but I think it's in person. Oh, for sure. We couldn't for a while. And that was, you know, it was. I'll be honest, it was fairly hurtful when during COVID people would accuse casting people of not doing our jobs because we were having people Self tape. That was massively hurtful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

Because as a rule, who goes to bat more for an actor than a casting person?

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly.

[Allison Jones]

Nobody does.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Allison Jones]

So many people out there have gigantic parts and careers and they have no idea how close they came to not getting that job until a casting director fought for them and showed them every piece of tape we could find. Showed them being interviewed on every talk show, everything. Or didn't let them take another job and made sure they stayed available for the pilot of the Office kind of thing. That was rough. But what came of that is that all the self taping, what came of it was we can put so many more people on tape everywhere, you know, Britain, everywhere. And they get shots at it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Cause they're not having to come into the room so you can audition wherever you are.

[Allison Jones]

Well, for people we don't know, it just opens it up. It opens up the floodgates and we can see if we're casting kids, they can go home and do it with their folks and.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure.

[Allison Jones]

And we are trained to spot something on the video. We don't necessarily go by line read.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

We leave that to the executive producers and then we argue with that. Guys, look at this person. This kid is fantastic. He's green, but he can, you know, that's what you get. You get. It's a leap of faith. And you take someone green who you like their vibe and you go with it. Boy, that has worked for me in comedy, that's for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I love not having to sit in the hallway anymore. The long hallway where you're waiting to go in and there's like eight people that look almost just like you. And then you can hear the audition. You can hear the person before you reading the same lines you're about to read.

[Jenna Fischer]

Am I crazy? I like all of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Allison Jones]

No, it's okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

You like the hallway a little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

What do you like about the hallway?

[Allison Jones]

You wouldn't anymore.

[Jenna Fischer]

I wouldn't.

[Allison Jones]

I don't think so. Maybe when you're younger and you really have to audition and go for something, you like that hallway. Because there's the camaraderie. What I always admire is the camaraderie of actors seeing each other at auditions and they're friendly and they haven't seen someone in a while and say, hey. And they're really thinking, oh, I'm up against this person. I'm up against this person again and again. Because a lot of actors know who they're up against. They see the sign in sheet and they know who just came in.

[Jenna Fischer]

My biggest competition, my whole career was always Alison Hannigan.

[Allison Jones]

I'm sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Alison Hannigan and I would be at every actor, same auditions.

[Allison Jones]

What would your Angela? Every actor would have the one they always saw at every audience.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep. And Mary Lynn Ricekop was another one. Okay.

[Allison Jones]

I bet. In fact, she was.

[Jenna Fischer]

She was good for Pam.

[Allison Jones]

She was. And she was really good, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know, I know. She and I tested against each other many a time.

[Allison Jones]

Yes, I'm sure you did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mary Lynn has a very funny bit that she does in her standup where people ask for her autograph and they say, you were great as Pam. And she just was like, okay.

[Allison Jones]

She just like.

[Angela Kinsey]

She just doesn't even react anymore.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's very funny. I have a very funny Marilyn Rice Gibson, which is that I had been auditioning for this pilot for the Dan Band. So he was doing this show and there was the part of the waitress. It was the lead girl. And when I read the sides, I thought, oh, I'm gonna do like my best Marilyn Ricegub. That is, I'm literally gonna do an impression of her because that's how I see this part. And I walked into the test audition and she was sitting right there. And I thought, you know what? At least I knew what they were going for. Like, I at least interpreted it right. And then guess what? There was one other girl. There was tall, blonde, Australian actress. She got the part.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mary Lynn and I did not get it. It went to the third girl, but I thought that was really funny. Yeah, I was like, oh, yep, there she is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, mine is Rachel Harris.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, sure, of course.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then she ended up playing my sister in the finale, which is perfect.

[Allison Jones]

The best.

[Angela Kinsey]

But I like, there's a show out there somewhere where we're related.

[Allison Jones]

Yes. The Groundlings was very, very good to the Office. Everybody in the Groundlings in UCB and all of that. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, speaking of that, a lot of people wrote in to ask, how do you start casting a project? Can you tell us a little bit about how you assemble a cast and what were some of the things that you and Greg first talked about in terms of a vision for the show?

[Allison Jones]

Well, we had a template, the British Office, and I think we discussed it didn't make sense to me to really do duplicates of the people in the British Office, but their kind of essence, you know, Jim was a little less self confident, that kind of thing. And so I think he mostly discussed just real people. He Just. We just need to get real people in here to start to audition. So I started by doing a lot of pre reads, meaning they came to my office and would read the sides, and I would. At the time, I don't think we taped pre reads. We could ask Phyllis that question. I don't think we did. And that we were in an office across from CBS Radford, and it was just Phyllis and me the before times. Phyllis, when she was. Yes, that's right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

And we always pre read every casting director. You do so much legwork, you're pre reading so many actors, blah, blah, blah. I knew Jenna. I knew you because you had already done Undeclared. Right? You had done.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, well, yeah.

[Allison Jones]

And I just knew you. Cause of Naomi.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. You took a general meeting with me.

[Allison Jones]

Yes, that's right. Was Phyllis there?

[Jenna Fischer]

Phyllis was there.

[Allison Jones]

St. Louis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then you called me in for a role on Undeclared.

[Allison Jones]

Right, Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I got it right. It was one line.

[Allison Jones]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then you called me back all the time for different shows, and I never got any jobs. But for five years, you kept bringing me into your office. Allison, didn't you do Spin City? Spin City was my very first job.

[Allison Jones]

Spin City job.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was the very first one. And then Undeclared.

[Allison Jones]

Okay, great.

[Jenna Fischer]

You had brought me in for Freaks and Geeks.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, right.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I didn't go anywhere.

[Allison Jones]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

But you just kept calling me back and calling me back and calling me back for auditions. And then for the office, you called Naomi and you said, I'm going to bring Jenna straight to producers. I think she would be great for this role of Pam, but you need to tell her something. Tell her two things. Dare to bore me with your audition. I'll never forget those words. Dare to bore me. Do not come in and do a bunch of comedy shtick. She needs to play it super real. And also, no glam. I want her coming in looking natural.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what they're looking for. I was like, got it.

[Allison Jones]

Well, you came to mind immediately, for sure. Jenna Fisher for that part. And also those were the days where you didn't have to attach big names to anything. Greg was very open just to new faces and real people, and I knew what he meant right away. So I just went back, and I would usually do a week or two of pre reads, getting to know everybody, and I would call Naomi and we would get all the Groundlings in and et cetera, et cetera. And I did not want to duplicate the people on the British show. But just their sort of their essence and their. What they would bring to a similar character. I think the pilot of the Office had a bit of a mandate from NBC to do it. Like the pilot of the British Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Allison Jones]

It was scripted the same. With all due respect to Greg, it bugged me that we had some Britishisms in the script. Like you like a drink after work. I'll never forget that. That's such not an American way to say that. Not an American way to say that. That was Jim. All the gyms had to say, so you like a drink after work. And I was like, oh, Americans, don't say that. Please change it. But I don't think it was changed, at least for the auditions. So it's a couple weeks of pre reading. I have all the lists of who came in to pre read here if you ever want to look at them.

[Jenna Fischer]

I kind of.

[Allison Jones]

Oh. Including, you know, so many people now who are huge and who then went on to read for producers but didn't get the job.

[Angela Kinsey]

Allison, you gave me when the show wrapped as a gift, my sign in sheet, the date I auditioned and I still have it.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, good. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I even kept it in the red folder.

[Allison Jones]

You gave it to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

And reading the same day that I was reading was Kathryn Hahn.

[Allison Jones]

Oh my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

See that stuff is great about casting many colleagues and I have those old sign in sheets and the old sheets with notes about what we said about actors and things at the time. Everybody who was anybody in comedy came in. A couple people passed or had deals at CBS or something and couldn't come in. But everybody wanted to do the show. So we had a lot of great producer sessions.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember my producer session with you.

[Allison Jones]

I'm sure you do. You were in the stellar first day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. You said that you found half the cast the first day. The first day of producer session.

[Allison Jones]

It usually happens, by the way.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that right?

[Allison Jones]

Uh huh. That's very common. Casting People bring in their favorite people first and if you get them on the day they're available. There are so many independent variables in casting. We're at mercy of other people's scheduling, blah, blah, blah, blah. But frequently for a movie and pilots, et cetera, you cast it the first week. But because you have to go through the steps and people don't know and they can't think and they can't decide. There's 8,000 people who have to agree on one person now anyway. More than was then, for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I remember coming in.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you told me, big table. Yes.

[Allison Jones]

Big conference table kind of thing. It was not a good audition space.

[Jenna Fischer]

But you told me we're going to do a little improv at the producer's session. I'm just going to ask you some questions, and then you answer how you think Pam would answer the question. And I remember thinking, okay, Allison's note was, dare to bore me. So, okay. So I'm sitting there, the camera is on me. There's all these people watching me. And you say, so, Pam, do you like being a receptionist? And I went like this, no. And then I didn't say anything else. And the room was like crickets. And my heart was pounding. I'm, like, sweating. And then everybody burst into laughter. And I was like, yes. That's what I was going for. Because I thought, listen, this gal. My circumstances are that my crazy boss has brought me in front of a documentary crew. I don't have media training. I don't know how to give a good interview. I don't wanna say anything bad, but I also don't wanna lie. So I'm gonna just say no and leave it at that. And I thought the more interesting thing would be all the things you see me not say.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Than anything I could possibly say. Cause I am not a clever improviser with lines. I am not a Zach Woods. I do not have that command of language. But I'm like. But perhaps there's much I could say without saying much at all.

[Angela Kinsey]

I would say, though, Jenna, you're an excellent emotional improviser because you have great reactions and you react very honestly. That's another form of improv.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, thank you. I think of myself as not a very good improviser, actually.

[Angela Kinsey]

I disagree.

[Jenna Fischer]

I disagree. I feel like I'm a good reactor to improvising, I guess.

[Allison Jones]

But that's what the Office was all about. That style was reacting as opposed to acting.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I remember you giving me a little wink after that moment. Oh, I hope you talk about, like, encouraging the actor. And I was like, okay, good. And I. You know, and I wanted to do right by you. Cause you had believed in me for all those years. I wanted. You know, I wanted to pay that back by doing a good job.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remember them all so vividly. I do. And I would read Phyllis did the taping. Those were the days where it was VHS tape, and we had to transfer the VHS tapes in real time and make, like, six copies of each VHS tape. I have them here. Oh, my gosh. And then send them to NBC or send them to. We had to overnight them to England to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. And you'd play, record and you have to record for 90 minutes while you go through all the auditions. Kids don't have to do that these days. They just. And something is digitally recorded.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember being so nervous knowing that you were sending our tapes to Ricky Gervais.

[Allison Jones]

I probably never said anything I like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think my agent might have told me that, you know, you call them, you're like, any feedback? Any feedback?

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they said, well, they did send you to Ricky and Stephen. And I was like, ah. I'm like, well, that's good news. I'm really scared.

[Allison Jones]

I also remember right after your audition. Cause you were really maybe one of the first four people to read. I don't have the exact number of people, but that was our first session. And Terri Weinberg, you did a long audition. Cause we had a lot of pages then to audition. And then Terri said to you, I could watch you read all day long. I remember she said that. I think I even have that on tape, her saying that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my gosh.

[Allison Jones]

After your audition. So she picked you right off the bat. I love Terry, but it was such a, it was such a long process. But you were a no brainer to bring in for the first day anyway. I do try to bring in who I think are the best for the first days so that the writers get encouraged, et cetera, et cetera.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's so sweet.

[Allison Jones]

Can I'm curious to ask you, how versed were you on the British pilot? Cause I had thought that maybe Steve Carell never really watched the British pilot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Steve Carell?

[Allison Jones]

Cause he didn't wanna imitate.

[Jenna Fischer]

Steve did.

[Allison Jones]

He never did.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, he never did.

[Allison Jones]

And what about you guys?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I loved it.

[Allison Jones]

You did. You were aware of it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved it. But I remember that and I was like, wow, that's gonna be huge and scary and daunting because it was done so well and I was so worried. But I thought, if anyone can do it, it'll be Greg. If anyone can like give it a really great like second go, it would be Greg.

[Allison Jones]

And I think NBC had just done Coupling. And it wasn't. It was not, it did not.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was not translated. And I, I remember getting the call about the Office and I was so excited. I watched the whole thing.

[Allison Jones]

Yes, so you did, you did.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, and I, I thought, really, they're going to put that on American television. And then I was so worried, oh no, are they going to change it?

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, right.

[Jenna Fischer]

But as soon As I met Greg, and really, as soon as I got the phone call from your office saying, dare to bore me, I was like, oh, they're doing it. They're really going to do it. They're going to take a big swing. And I was excited.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, it was something. I remember vividly the first meeting we had with the network when he had a list of names and they were like, let's try Philip Seymour Hoffman. And then, you know, let's go for Paul Giamatti or whatever. And I'm so jaded. I'm like, they're never going to do. In those days, nobody did tv. TV was. The comedy was the bottom of the barrel. It's so true. It was the bottom of the barrel.

[Jenna Fischer]

To me, it was the top of the mountain.

[Allison Jones]

It's all I ever wanted to, but for the business, bottom of the barrel for sure. You're a comedy casting person. You're a comedy actor, you're a comedy writer, you're a comedy director. You couldn't get out of it. But anyway, this was the first time, other than Freaks and Geeks, I had the opportunity to get real people who didn't have to be, you know, vaudeville funny or sitcom funny, which is a very difficult thing to be. And so that just goes back into my past. Of the various kinds of comedy I have been able to witness being, you know, that's a whole other story comedy now being in a bit of a coma. But.

[Jenna Fischer]

But they wanted, like names like Paul.

[Allison Jones]

G. Well, they went right. Yes, right away they wanted to. That wasn't always the way it was at NBC anyway. Some networks always had to attach a big name. I recall CBS always wanted to attach a big name to get anything going. NBC was more into standups at the time and having a deal with it. They always made deals with certain standup comedians and develop roles for. But in fact, Steve Carell at the time was under contract to a show for one of the standups they had done a deal with and did a. Probably a nine episode Tom Papa. Tom Papa, Come to Papa. He was on Tom Papa's show. And we had to wait for him to be released from that for NBC to even have a shot at getting Steve Carell. But Nancy Perkins, who was the head of casting at NBC Universal, always knew Steve would be a top choice for this. I think everybody pretty much knew Steve would be a top choice for this, but for the first month or so we couldn't get him. And it was like, oh, okay, we'll keep bringing people in. And we brought in the Best of the Best, everybody was a different version of Michael Scott. That could have worked. Patton Oswalt could have worked. Bob Odenkirk would have been amazing. And, you know, all the Dwights we saw could have been a different version of it. That happens in casting a lot. You do have a lot of versions.

[Angela Kinsey]

But on the day I read, you know, yeah, I saw that.

[Allison Jones]

I remember you standing up there in front of the camera and everything. I do. I totally remember, I said, oh, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Eric Stonestreet read that day.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Good for Kevin.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that funny?

[Allison Jones]

That's amazing. I probably have proof of that. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it was on my. On my sign in.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lot of people wanted to know who was the hardest role to cast. Was it Michael Scott?

[Allison Jones]

I would say, for me, as a casting person, the hardest. We. No, we had choices for Michael Scott. For me, it wasn't the hardest. For me, it was finding a good Brian or a good. It was the supporting cast that we didn't quite know if they would be sustained through the whole show if they were in the British Office.

[Angela Kinsey]

So filling out those were harder.

[Allison Jones]

Filling out the world was actually tougher because for smaller roles, as you probably know from your early days in auditioning, it's really hard to be totally real and interesting and fun and just say, yes and no, it's enough. Or no, it's enough.

[Jenna Fischer]

Or yes, or you have one line. One line, and your audition scene is one line. You're like, how do I stand out? How do I show that I can?

[Allison Jones]

It's even tougher for us because you need to see what can be sustained in the background compared to how amazing they were on the British Office. Still, I think the best comedy ever made is the British Office. If I can confess that I do. Other than Allison.

[Jenna Fischer]

Alice.

[Allison Jones]

I know, sorry.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, wait. It's Office Lady 6.0. She can say that, you know, just.

[Allison Jones]

Because he invented it. But I would say that for me, the hardest was choosing all these amazing people from Groundlings and stuff and really bringing them forward and seeing what Greg could get out of them. In terms of characters, I mean, the happiest day for me was when Ken Kwapis came up to me and said, alison, let Phyllis read with the actors. I want to see if she can do it. This was at the testing. Cause I was reading with Steve Carell and stuff while they had the professional cameraman there taking it. And so Ken just came up to me and asked if I could let Phyllis read. I was like, yeah, that'd be great. And he said, maybe she could be in the background. I'm like, oh, my God, yes, she'll get a day's pay. So anyway, she didn't know at the time that's what was happening. She did not know that Ken had spotted Phyllis as someone who should be on the show. So we switched to Phyllis reading and she read. Did she read with you and John?

[Jenna Fischer]

She read with me.

[Angela Kinsey]

She did.

[Allison Jones]

Okay. She then started reading with everybody in the room. And of course she was great. She read with me and she read with you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

When I. So I think one of the things that helped me a lot was my first audition for the show was for Pam.

[Allison Jones]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you and I can share about that.

[Allison Jones]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

But right before I got the audition, well, first of all, Greg reached out to me and he said, ang, you've been doing improv for years. He had been to every show I had done, and I was one of the most annoying people who had three shows a week at some little theater with no parking. So I was doing all these shows, and Greg came to all of them. He was so supportive, and he was like, angela, this is perfect for you. Because he had done a lot of projects that I had not gone in for because I wasn't right for. But he said, they don't want anyone with credits. I'm like, thanks, Greg. Any well known people, they want people who can, you know. He goes, I want someone who's good on their feet and can improvise. And he was like, so I want you to come in, but here's the deal. No one can know we're related. It will only hurt your chances. And I was like, okay, great. And then I went in and I'm in a little, tiny lobby room. Tiny, tiny little room. It was the bungalow and it was me and Kathryn Hahn sitting across from each other. And I was like, oh, balls.

[Allison Jones]

We had famous people on the couch. I recall it was a small, crappy little couch. She was.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she was so lovely and nice. And I went in and Phyllis was reading and Greg was in the way, way back, all the way against the back wall. And I finished my audition and I felt really good about it. I was like, that's the best Pam I can do. Although everyone laughed when I called Michael a jerk. And I thought, I don't think people are supposed to laugh here. I think that's supposed to be a.

[Allison Jones]

Moment that was in the fake fire firing scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah. And then of course, when I saw Jenna do it as Pam and she like, Tears up when she calls him a jerk. I was feisty when I called him a jerk. But at the end of the audition, I was getting up to leave, and Greg, like, tucked his hands into his body so no one could see. He made, like, a little cave out of his body, and he did two thumbs up and, like, smiled. And I was like, oh, well, if anything, Greg thought I did a good job, and that's enough for me. Right. And then I got the call that they liked me, but they didn't think I was Pam, which is no surprise. And then two months went by, and I got a call, and they said, we want you to come read for this kind of prickly lady in accounting. But you said to me, don't wear any makeup.

[Allison Jones]

I'm sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Don't try to look cute. Like, really an accountant in a small company. No, like, really don't do your hair. So I didn't. I didn't do my hair. I pulled it back in a low ponytail, and I just wore all gray. Cause I was trying to see what do I have that looks businessy. But I didn't really have anything. And I literally wore no makeup, no mascara, and, like, a light chapstick.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

And went in, and I had one line, and I thought that thing that you said, how do you make one line interesting?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's so tough. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then Ken, after I did my one line, which is, well, I think if they're gonna fire someone, it'll probably be me. Oh, that was my line. And then after that, Kent had me stay in character and ask me a few questions. And that's. I think what did. It really was that they. Then they could believe that I would be this character.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

They asked me something like, what do you think about Oscar? And I was like, do you have a stapler that works, but you have to push it down? It doesn't really always work. And I said something really boring.

[Jenna Fischer]

You said, a stapler is great, but you still have to push it down.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what you think of him. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I improvised that. And then. Yeah, but you have a whole other side to that story.

[Allison Jones]

Yes. When we wanted to get you approved to play the role, by that time, I did know that you were a relative of.

[Angela Kinsey]

You didn't know at first.

[Allison Jones]

I did not know. No. Greg, though, to his credit, he brought in all of his Simpson writer friends to audition. And I was blown over by how cool and weird these comedy guys were, because everybody in comedy writing seems to start as a performer. It seems that way. Probably Greg did not. I'm guessing he did not.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't think he did, no.

[Allison Jones]

But I said, I think we have to have a plan. Nobody can say that Angela is part of Greg's. Is an in law, is a sister in law. So Phyllis and I, Phyllis being before times Phyllis, we said, okay, we're just going to talk about her and try to get her approved. But nobody can ever mention that she's a relative or that Greg is actually super familiar with her comedy and her style. So when it came to time to discuss you, Greg started throwing up all these roadblocks and like, was practically blew it. Yeah, he practically blew it. And so Phyllis and I were like, no, we love her. She's great. She's not like any other female on the show. She's not like Pam. And somehow we got you approved. But Greg was testing us or something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Greg, I mean, like, when I've asked him about it, he was like, I couldn't give it away. I had to, like, he had to.

[Jenna Fischer]

Be like, very skeptical. Like, well, are you?

[Allison Jones]

He was, he challenged us. And Phyllis and I were like, he's blowing Greg's overspelling us.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah. He was protesting too much. Yeah. However, you did not get it because you were related to Greg. You got it because you were really good. Thank you. I would be the first to stop something that didn't work just because it was a relation, believe me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I believe that. And I also know that Greg wouldn't bring me in.

[Allison Jones]

No, he wouldn't have.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because he was very honest about Greg.

[Allison Jones]

Was really good at asking improv questions, though. Very, very good at coming up with questions to ask actors that would let them just go for it. Yeah. Very smart. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

To two former party planning committee members.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you know what the one thing the party planning committee never planned?

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

A wedding.

[Jenna Fischer]

We did not.

[Angela Kinsey]

Could you imagine Phyllis, Angela, Pam and Meredith planning your wedding?

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

So we've talked about you a lot on the podcast for Allison and we've had a lot of guests come on who are actors who were on the show, a lot of guest stars and they tell stories about how you remembered them. I mean, I told a story today about how for five years you kept calling me in and we got fan mail about it. Isabel H. From San Luis Obispo, California said, a lot of cast members have mentioned how you remember auditions and think of them for future roles. It's a testament to how special you make actors feel and how much you remember them. It's so touching. How do you store all this information and have this kind of recall? And then Caitlin from Syracuse, New York, said, please talk about either your seemingly photographic memory or your amazing filing system. So many times we have heard actors or guest actors, talked about how you remembered them and called them up for a role when it was right for them. How on earth do you keep track of so many people?

[Allison Jones]

We got so many in those days, we actually had memories. We had an actual memory, not a digital memory. For me, and for. I will again speak for all my colleagues in casting. If we meet somebody that we think is special or gives a good audition, you cannot wait to bring them again to get them apart. And sometimes that takes 40 auditions before they get something. And you have to just keep bringing them in and bringing them in. But the memory part comes to probably me being old when my brain worked. And you do remember. Cause it's what we do. We do remember somebody who gives a great audition or somebody you bump into and say, oh, I'm glad I bumped into him. I gotta bring him in for this. Gotta bring him from that role. And that's a big part of casting, I think, because what makes you like casting and what makes me like casting is getting the right person for the right role. The remembering part comes from auditioning so many people. And certainly I would write down something, remember him for somebody who's grumpy, or remember, because this guy was great. This, that, and the other thing. Or. And then you just keep bringing people in. All of casting, people do that. We just see someone we love and we can't wait to get them a job. And there's also. We talk with each other all the time. We're like, you gotta meet this person. This person was fabulous. We just have to remember because that is part of our job. And Also, again, frankly, 30 years ago, you did have a better memory in your own brain than you do now digitally. I mean, I still am not. I have no filing system at all. I look at my old audition sheets. I look at my old auditions. If somebody's especially good. People I've met recently that I didn't know. Wonderful standup named Kat Cohen. I can't wait to get her a really great, great job because she's so good and everybody I know will love her. Am I allowed to Say that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Allison Jones]

She'll be thrilled.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly.

[Allison Jones]

She's pretty famous in the standup world. So when I see someone come along and I know that person is effing fabulous, I will not stop until I get them something good. And at my early days, the office early days, it was Kristen Schall, people like that. It was Jenna Fisher. It was just those people you had to work, Neil Casey, all these unbelievable. Zach Woods. Aubrey just had to meet them. And you're like, I gotta get them in. Gotta meet Mike Shore, gotta meet Greg Daniels. Cause that is my job. And it's also, thank God, what I like about it. So for whatever proclivity I have for actors and comedy people and people who make me laugh and people who are clearly very talented, maybe better at drama than comedy, blah, blah, blah, blah. We remember them because we like them and we can focus on that. You know, it's a whole discussion about how memory works. But still, I do not have any kind of digital anything now. I don't watch. I should, but I don't watch enough TikTok or YouTube or anything like that. I sort of remember visually as well. I think I remember visually to get technical. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you also go to see Groundling shows or UC shows?

[Allison Jones]

Yes. Not as much as scouting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that like a scouting thing?

[Allison Jones]

I never per se went scouting, but I mean, as I'm here scouting or anything like the poor agents have to do, sometimes they go to an industry night and they see if they should sign certain people or whatever. We also have a network of comedy managers who need to get more credit than they ever get. I didn't discover anybody. The comedy manager discovered that person before I brought them in. You know, Christie Smith discovered Charlene Yee, Jimmy Miller discovered everybody. Dave, Becky, Dave Minor. They discovered all these people and brought them up from nothing and encouraged them and put together these shows with them and. And all the greats are with all these unbelievable comedy managers. So I give them all the credit for doing the discovering.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that's how I feel about Naomi.

[Allison Jones]

Naomi, everybody she signs ends up on snl. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kristen Wiig, Jerry Miner.

[Allison Jones]

Yep, exactly. So for whatever reason, whatever thing we have in our brains that makes us focus on. I mean, we can visually and hear people in our brains. Maybe we're all psychos. I don't know. But. But whatever that is, comedy managers need to have a lot more credit, too. Do they get credit? I don't know. I don't even know. But I always say I didn't discover a soul. They all came from these Great managers and agents. And then slowly improv comedy kind of got a presence in the comedy world. And we would bring those people into audition.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's see. We have a question here from Kimberly Ness from Rochester, Minnesota, writes in and says, Allison, what was your all time favorite episode of the Office and why?

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow. I mean, it could be as a fan or from a casting perspective, I guess.

[Allison Jones]

Well, it would be both. My all time favorite episode, it probably as a fan was the basketball one. When Stanley was bouncing the basketball and he couldn't do it that episode. And I think I went to the set that day, so I saw a little bit of it. So it was my. That had to have been my all time favorite episode. It's not everybody else.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's one of our all time favorites.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, it is. That's a pretty great episode. And also Phyllis wedding, for obvious reasons. Cause it was Phyllis and she was so good. And also Jim and Pam's wedding for sure. And then you came dancing down the aisle like that YouTube video. Yeah, I think they took that from the YouTube video.

[Jenna Fischer]

They did, yeah.

[Allison Jones]

So that was pretty cool. I think those were my favorite episodes for sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Allison, we just got so much mail for you. Cause our fans just adore you and the work that you've done on creating the Office and so many of their favorite shows. So I wanted to read you this. This is from Brenna C. In New York. Hi, Allison. Not a question, but just wanted to say how much of an impact you have had on the television industry throughout the years. It is so comforting and delightful to be watching a sitcom from a decade within the last 30 plus years and see your name pop up. You have been directly responsible for the most beloved characters on our screens. And that does not go unnoticed by fans.

[Allison Jones]

So nice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Anyone who knows TV knows Allison Jones. We see you and we appreciate you. Thank you for taking chances on people who are trying to live their dreams. Because it makes dreams real for millions of people from that point on.

[Allison Jones]

Thank you, Brenna.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that so?

[Allison Jones]

Yes. That's amazing. Yes. Thank you so much. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we got a lot of letters like that.

[Allison Jones]

That's incredible.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, for me, Alison, I was out here for eight years and you were the casting director that kept calling me back. I just needed you really to believe in me and give me that access to those parts.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that is what changed my life. But it also kept me going. I mean, just the fact that every six or seven months Allison Jones would call with a apart for me. Maybe it was just A guest star. Maybe it was a new pilot. That was why I wasn't flying back home to St. Louis and giving up was because my phone would ring and you would bring me in.

[Allison Jones]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I so appreciate it.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, you're so welcome. And also, I'm so proud you're both so good at this. This podcast thing. It's quite amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Allison Jones]

But I would say that that is a large amount of faith that we have in people and in actors. And what I want, when actors ask about what's the thing that you can advise actors on? Or what is the one word you have for actors? And I say tenacity. Faith for the people who have to choose you. Leap of faith for the people who have to choose you. And for actors, tenacity. So many actors. God bless him. Ken Jiang. I brought him in so many times for Curb. He finally got a Curb. He finally got an office, and now Ken is doing okay. But, yes, we have faith, and you have to have the tenacity. So. And that is the big story of many successful actors, I think, having the tenacity and the.

[Jenna Fischer]

My acting coach, he used to say, success is opportunity meets readiness. Yes, you can't control the opportunities, but you can control the readiness. So you just be ready for when Alison Jones calls. Basically, you're the opportunity piece.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, good. Thank you very much.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, you know, I just tried to always be ready. And he also said the key is building a consistent body of work so that every time. And he would literally use your name because you were the casting director that was calling, he would say, every time Allison calls, you are ready, and you show her a consistent body of work. And if you do those two things, eventually. Eventually the right fit will find you.

[Allison Jones]

Right. My first boss, to whom I owe everything, the late Judith Weiner. Anyway, I owe her everything in terms of any kind of casting theory. But she used to always say, there is one perfect part for every actor, so. And I believe that she said, there's one perfect part for every actor. Well, and keep bringing them in. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you for fighting for us, because.

[Allison Jones]

Oh, please.

[Angela Kinsey]

We know you did.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, we do. All the time.

[Angela Kinsey]

We know we wouldn't be here without you, Allison. Truly, it means so much to us, really.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'll get.

[Allison Jones]

Thank you for this.

[Angela Kinsey]

Choked up.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, No, I would, too. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

You changed our lives.

[Allison Jones]

After I came back to the office, after interviewing with Greg and everybody, I remember saying to Phyllis the before times, phyllis, God, I hope I get this job. I think it would be one of the most important Jobs I've ever had. This show is fantastic. It's the office. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And little did I know it was more important for Phyllis. Hugely life changing and important for me. But at the time, who knew?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, who knew?

[Allison Jones]

It was really important for Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

So amazing.

[Allison Jones]

And for the people who. Who make Inside Out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

How proud are we of Phyllis? She's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

So amazing.

[Allison Jones]

I was crying. Yeah. At that. That you just said, hi, Phyllis. So happy for Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

So happy for Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Allison, this was absolutely delightful. Is there any memory or anything that we have not touched on that you'd like to share with our listeners? I'm going to look through our questions one more time.

[Allison Jones]

Yes, I would like to share. You had a question there that you didn't ask. You had asked on the questions. Something about a special phone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes, here it is.

[Allison Jones]

Read that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. This was my question. This is from Jenna F. In Los Angeles.

[Allison Jones]

Yeah, I love it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna F. Writes in something.

[Allison Jones]

Okay, Jenna. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Jenna said, I'm sure it's great to call and tell someone that they got a role, but you have to make a dozen other calls to tell all the other people that they didn't get the role. And what's that like?

[Allison Jones]

Telling the actors they got the roles is the job, but mostly the managers and the agents. So we have to call and tell the agents and the managers that their client did or didn't get the role. And the one I remember the most is you, Jenna Fisher. What? And you got the office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Allison Jones]

I. Probably the worst call was having to tell Bob Odenkirk he didn't get the office. But I was able to tell the people who got the office they got the office. So I called up Michael Green, that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was my agent at the time.

[Allison Jones]

Your agent at the time, Michael Green. And they always know what you're calling about right after a test. And I said, hi, Michael. And the import of it hit me as much as it probably hit him and would have hit you. I said, I am calling to tell you that Jenna Fisher got the office. It's exactly what I said. And there was silence. There was silence. I think he was probably crying a little bit. I was even getting emotional because for some reason I'm getting emotional now because for some reason, at the time it hit me that that was a big deal for Jenna Fisher to get the office.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was a big deal for me.

[Allison Jones]

And who even knew at the time what would happen with the office?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Allison Jones]

You know, so that is the one that I remember the most I hate having to call. I hate making those calls. It falls on us. Of course. God forbid. Over the years, I've had to call and actually fire actors from a set. It's awful. No, it's awful because people don't man up and do it themselves. You know, directors and things, they don't want to do that kind of thing. So we get to do the dirty work. So what it's like is it's awful, but it's great to be able to tell an agent or a manager that their client got a huge role that we know will be life changing. And even the best are the small role that will be life changing. When I get to hire somebody phenomenal for one line on Curb youb Enthusiasm and they're the ones who sent bottles of wine and flowers. It's like, yeah, you're spending your whole salary and it's one line, but to them, it's the start of everything. So that's what's the greatest part of casting, is getting these people you believe in finally getting them the gigs. And it takes so long. Jack Black used to come in for one line parts all the time, and he killed it. And talk about a person who could kill one line. It was Jack Black I could kill in a good way. And when he finally started getting the parts, it was phenomenal. You know, the rest is history for Jack Black, but still probably a full decade of Jack Black. But anyway, it's the small parts that are pretty amazing too. And the unknown people to get a part, you know, that it's a joyful, wonderful thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Alison, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, Allison, thank you. You had such a deeply impactful role in casting the Office. And I'm just so excited to share this interview with our fans.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I just loved that so much. You know, Angela, I realize we never even cracked open her three bins of stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, but she said she'll bring them back anytime.

[Jenna Fischer]

We all laughed about it after we finished the inter. We were like, Alison, you carry those.

[Angela Kinsey]

All the way up. Oh, my goodness.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I just love getting to see her in person. We've traded so many emails back and forth over the years of doing this podcast. And Angela, I know you ran into her recently, but I had not seen her in person in so long and it was so great.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was. It was just so wonderful. Well, thank you everyone for writing in with your questions. They were just terrific. And let us know who you us to talk to next.

[Jenna Fischer]

And don't forget, on Monday, we are going to start rerunning our rewatch starting with the pilot and we have some really fun second drink tidbits for that one. We're going to pop on before every episode and give you some new thoughts and observations about those episodes and some.

[Angela Kinsey]

New nuggets that we're finding. All right you guys, we hope you had a great Wednesday. We will see you next week for more Office lady six.

[Jenna Fischer]

See you then. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our Executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our Associate producer is Ainsley Bubaco.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's Executive producer are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. Klarna is your smarter everyday spending partner for the holiday season, shoppers can use Klarna's pay in for product to split their purchase into four interest free payments.

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Phyllis Smith]

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