An Interview with Kathy Bates

Summary

Podcast Summary: Office Ladies – An Interview with Kathy Bates

Episode Information:

• Title: An Interview with Kathy Bates
• Hosts: Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
• Release Date: December 11, 2024

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this special episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey welcome the esteemed actress Kathy Bates for an in-depth conversation. The episode delves into Kathy's experiences on The Office, her new television series Matlock, and her personal health journey, including her battle with cancer and advocacy work.

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2. Kathy Bates' Journey on The Office

Joining the Show: Kathy Bates portrayed Sabre CEO Jo Bennett in The Office across eight episodes during seasons six and seven. Reflecting on her entry into the show, Kathy shared her feelings of nervousness and admiration for the cast's comedic prowess.

Kathy Bates [17:04]: "I felt like when I was doing it, I was really running to catch up, and it was a learning curve."

Character Development: Jo Bennett was a fully realized character from the outset, leaving a lasting impression on both the cast and the audience. Kathy expressed her desire to have further explored Jo's character, highlighting memorable scenes and the intricacies of Jo's personality.

Jenna Fischer [22:21]: "We would have liked that. For sure."

Collaborative Environment: Kathy praised the collaborative atmosphere on set, emphasizing the opportunity to learn from talented actors like Steve Carell and the seamless integration of improvisation within the scripted framework.

Kathy Bates [20:48]: "Steve Carell... he just is such a natural in whatever role he puts on. I don't see him acting."

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3. Exploring Kathy's New Series: Matlock

Overview of Matlock: Kathy Bates stars in the CBS series Matlock, playing Madeline Kingston, a retired lawyer who returns to practice to seek justice for her daughter's death related to the opioid epidemic. The show has garnered significant attention and has been well-received, prompting discussion about its depth and meaningful storytelling.

Kathy Bates [25:56]: "The numbers are just crazy. They were just off the charts."

Character Complexity: Kathy discussed the duality of her character, Maddie Matlock, and the intricate backstory that adds layers to her role. She highlighted the show's balance between episodic cases and overarching narratives that delve into Maddie's personal motivations and challenges.

Kathy Bates [27:17]: "It was a seminal moment for her, that she was really able to make a difference..."

Creative Collaboration: The collaboration with Jenny Ehrman, the creator of Jane the Virgin, is a focal point of the show. Kathy appreciates the creative input and the opportunity to shape her character's journey alongside the writing team.

Kathy Bates [27:17]: "I want to learn something about myself. We're trying to learn from our experiences."

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4. Advocacy and Health Journey

Breast Cancer Survival: Both hosts and Kathy Bates share their experiences with breast cancer. Kathy, a two-time cancer survivor, discusses her battle with ovarian and breast cancer, the challenges of treatment, and her role as a spokesperson for the Lymphatic Education and Research Network (LEARNet).

Jenna Fischer [08:03]: "Kathy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2003 and breast cancer in 2000 and 2012."

Lymphedema Awareness: Kathy elaborates on her advocacy for lymphedema, a condition resulting from lymph node removal during cancer treatment. She emphasizes the importance of education and support for those affected, sharing stories of individuals impacted by the condition.

Kathy Bates [44:10]: "Nearly 10 million people in this country suffer from some kind of lymphedema..."

Emotional Resilience: Both Jenna and Angela speak candidly about the emotional toll of cancer treatment, the importance of support systems, and the ongoing struggle even after completing major treatments.

Angela Kinsey [59:41]: "I cried for 20 minutes. And we couldn't even use it because it was the first time I said out loud she was cancer free."

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5. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Behind-the-Scenes Memories: Kathy shares fond memories from her time on The Office, including interactions with co-stars and the unique aspects of filming alongside them. She reminisces about specific scenes, such as the iconic conference room meeting where her character impresses the team with her legal acumen.

Kathy Bates [06:04]: "How do you know the number?... It's sort of her sneaking her way into the law firm, and she ends up in the big conference room meeting."

Hobbies and Interests: Outside of her professional life, Kathy talks about her hobbies, including reading, coloring, and spending time with her dog. She also touches upon her past musical interests, revealing a personal side beyond her acting career.

Kathy Bates [67:53]: "I love playing. I taught myself how to play. And so it was. I miss it."

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6. Advice for Aspiring Actors

Drawing from her extensive experience, Kathy offers valuable advice to those pursuing acting. She emphasizes the importance of resilience, continuous learning, and maintaining a balance between a strong professional front and an open, compassionate heart.

Kathy Bates [69:48]: "You have to have a head like a bullet and a heart like a baby... protect your heart. Don't let your heart get hurt by strangers who say things about you or your work."

Balancing Art and Emotion: Kathy discusses the delicate balance actors must maintain between being open-hearted in their craft while shielding themselves from external negativity, especially in the age of social media.

Jenna Fischer [71:38]: "I feel like it's sometimes hard to be an artist because you do have to keep that open heart in order to do the work..."

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with heartfelt exchanges between the hosts and Kathy Bates, reflecting on the meaningful conversations and shared experiences. Kathy expresses her gratitude for the opportunity to discuss her advocacy work and personal journey, while Jenna and Angela reaffirm their support and admiration.

Angela Kinsey [73:20]: "Yes. Thank you. First of all, we are going to share everything about the Lymphatic Education and Research Network on our social media."

Upcoming Highlights: Jenna and Angela tease upcoming content related to Kathy's advocacy efforts and their ongoing support for each other's creative endeavors, ensuring listeners remain engaged and informed.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kathy Bates [06:04]: "How do you know the number?... It's sort of her sneaking her way into the law firm, and she ends up in the big conference room meeting."

• Jenna Fischer [08:03]: "Kathy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2003 and breast cancer in 2000 and 2012."

• Kathy Bates [27:17]: "It was a seminal moment for her, that she was really able to make a difference..."

• Angela Kinsey [59:41]: "I cried for 20 minutes. And we couldn't even use it because it was the first time I said out loud she was cancer free."

• Kathy Bates [69:48]: "You have to have a head like a bullet and a heart like a baby... protect your heart. Don't let your heart get hurt by strangers who say things about you or your work."

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Final Note: This episode of Office Ladies offers an inspiring and intimate look into Kathy Bates' multifaceted life, her dedication to her craft, and her unwavering commitment to advocacy. Listeners are encouraged to tune in for more insightful discussions and behind-the-scenes stories from The Office and beyond.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

This is where you want to go for cheese Ang.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I know. I love their cheese. There's such a huge selection.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, and not just that. They also have all the best, like little extras that go on your cheese board. The nuts and the dried fruit and the little jams and the fig stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

Chocolate. You can put chocolate on a cheese board?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's just the way you said it. And they have it at Whole Foods. And don't forget about the 365 by Whole Foods Market, seasonal cookies and baking mixes. Or go to the bakery department for some timeless classics.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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They do.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

We got our kids bed frames at Wayfair and they love them.

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will dive deeper into the World of the Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0. Hello.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi there.

[Jenna Fischer]

We are so excited because today we get to share our interview with Kathy Bates.

[Angela Kinsey]

Kathy flippin Bates.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got to zoom with Kathy Bates lady. I'm still kind of pinching myself about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I still. Yeah, me too. Like, even afterwards, I was like, we just spent over an hour. Yeah. We talked for so long with Kathy Bates.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. You guys know that Kathy Bates appeared in eight episodes of the Office over seasons six and seven. She was Sabre CEO Jo Bennett. And she shares some really fun memories about her time on the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, you know, she's just a legend. We are so fortunate that we got to work with her, have this amazing conversation with her. She has won an Academy Award, two Emmy Awards, two Golden Globe awards, and two Screen Actors Guild awards. She is currently starring in the new CBS series Matlock. It's a huge hit, and I'm sure she's gonna add more awards to that shelf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, for sure. I love Matlocke.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too. We both started watching it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were watching it. It is so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

It had me from the minute. Like that first scene in the coffee shop.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. The pilot is one of the best pilots I've seen. I told her that, too. Well, we want to share a little bit about her new series. Kathy Bates plays a wealthy retired lawyer named Madeline Kingston. And she returns to practicing law as a way to seek justice for the death of her daughter Ellie, who died as a result of the opioid epidemic.

[Angela Kinsey]

But now you don't find that out till the end of the pilot. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, that's right. When we meet her, we meet her in her fake identity as a sort of, like, needy widow named Maddie Matlock.

[Angela Kinsey]

Who had, like, a crappy ex husband.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And she's raising her grandson on her own. And she is raising her grandson, but not on her own because her husband's still living. Stay with me.

[Angela Kinsey]

And her husband is nice, and her husband is great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Stay with us. And she gets a job at the law firm that she believes has hid evidence that could have saved her daughter's life.

[Angela Kinsey]

And the whole pilot is sort of her sneaking her way into the law firm, and she ends up in the big conference room meeting. And she blows them away. It's a very badass moment. And they decide to give her, like, a two weeks temporary hire to see how she's going to shake out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Kind of test run. So she's in. She's very excited. I just loved this conference room scene. They're all having this meeting and they're in litigation with this other company and they're trying to figure out, like, what would this company be willing to settle at?

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

What would they be willing to settle at? And all of a sudden, like from the back of the room, you hear her be like, I know the number they're willing to settle at. And I'll tell you what it is if you give me a job. And everyone's like, who is this lady?

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where did she come from? And then she goes on to explain how she found out that number they're willing to settle for. And it's much higher than this law firm thought. I actually thought we should listen. Cause I loved it so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's a great scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's avoid traps then.

[Kathy Bates]

How do you know the number? Well, you see, there's this funny thing that happens when women age. We become damn near invisible. Oh, not that I'm complaining. I had my moment in the sun. Plus, it's useful because nobody sees us coming. That's how I got through your security several times. And it's also how I knew that Peabody's counsel grabs coffee and updates his client between 8:15 and 8:25.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's the number?

[Kathy Bates]

Am I hired?

[Angela Kinsey]

No one is hired without a two week trial. What's their ceiling?

[Kathy Bates]

23 million. Which means I just made you $4 million. Do I still need a two week trial?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

So good.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I think what I like about the show is how, you know, people doubting you or people not believing in you or people not seeing you like that can be really hard. But you can also turn it to your advantage.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And make it work for you. And I really like that.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, there's a thing about this character that reminded me of something Phyllis said to you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Years ago.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, me too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. She knew all the scoop happening on the set.

[Jenna Fischer]

She always knew all the best gossip.

[Angela Kinsey]

All the best gossip. But she wasn't a gossip. She was not chatty. She did not share it. And Jenna has shared this before on the podcast. But one time Jenna was like, phyllis, how do you know everything? And she goes, well, when you're invisible, you know, people say stuff around you. People say stuff around you.

[Jenna Fischer]

She's like, I think people don't notice me. So I hear it all.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela, you have a Matlock fun fact to share with us.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do. Rainn Wilson and Melora Hardin both guest starred in the original Matlock series. And Linda Pearl, aka Helene Beasley, played Charlene Matlock in 23 episodes of the original series.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little office Matlock connection there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, something else about Kathy Bates is that she and I are both breast cancer survivors. Kathy is actually a two time cancer survivor. Kathy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2003 and breast cancer in 2000 2012. After being treated for breast cancer, she developed lymphedema and she is now the spokesperson of the Lymphatic Education and Research Network. And she talked with us about that as well. I really appreciated getting to talk with her about this. When you are a cancer patient, there's a language that goes with it. I say to my other breast cancer ladies, like, we speak cancer. And so I got to kind of speak that language with her a little bit and feel really heard. She was so kind.

[Angela Kinsey]

She was very kind and thoughtful. And one of the biggest takeaways from just getting a chance to talk to her for me, was how committed she is to making a difference and to helping others. And I really admired her for that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I really admire her too. You know, she's talked about this desire to be useful and her character talks about that on Matlock being useful. And that's something that I felt with my own journey. If I could just make this somehow useful. It keeps me going. I really identified with that when she talked about that. But guys, it was just an honor to have worked with her and to have her on the podcast. We're going to take a quick break and then our interview with Kathy Bates. This segment is brought to you by Macy's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey everyone. This is your friendly reminder that the holiday season is upon us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Macy's is our one stop shop for gifting this season. I have found gifts for everyone on my list thanks to the Macy's gift guide. In fact, it was their gift guide titled Home that helped me find the perfect gift for my sister this year.

[Angela Kinsey]

They have such good gift guides, lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm so excited that we partnered with them this holiday season because they are truly actually making my holiday shopping so much easier because I have spent so much time with the gift guides.

[Angela Kinsey]

So what'd you get your sister?

[Jenna Fischer]

I got her an air fryer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Great.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I know she's gonna be excited about it because she recently told me that her kids new favorite thing to make at home are pan fried potatoes. But it drives her crazy because of how the oil splatters all over the stove when they make it. Cause I think they like to make it. But they don't love to clean it up, I guess.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that's usually the case. Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Anyway, I don't think I would have thought of an air fryer, but I saw it pop up on the gift guide.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, speaking of gift guides, we also started our own Macy's gift guide where we are putting our picks for the holidays. So, Jenna, I know you added the air fryer to our list.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did, because I think it's such a fun thing. It's kind of like a toy for adults. I feel like it's something you might not buy yourself, but you would love as a gift. Yeah, I have one, too. I love it. Give love, Give. An air fryer. You're going to put a swipe up in our stories too, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

For sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

In general, I love small kitchen appliances. I love a blender, a mini food processor, a rice cooker. That is my personal favorite. I'm going to add a rice cooker to our gift guide.

[Angela Kinsey]

I use my rice cooker so much. Well, I added a few things to our gift guide as well. So my son has really been wanting a pair of nice slippers. You know, he had like his little kid slippers, you know, like the fuzzy ones, and they've fallen apart. But he's, he's older now. He's a teenager and he wanted some cozy slippers, but like also ones that you could walk out in the driveway in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I got him these great Ugg slippers. They are the Ugg men's classic slip on shaggy suede slippers. I can't wait to give them to him. And I added a little something for me on our site.

[Jenna Fischer]

What did you add?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I mean, I love to dress festive this time of year. So I added a cute red sweater and on the front of it in white, it says Mary M E R R Y.

[Jenna Fischer]

So you.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's by Cece and I put it on our storefront so, you know, people who are like me and want to be festive can go there and get it.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Let Macy's be your guide to gifting. Shop our favorites this holiday season directly from our Macy's gift guide Storefront by visiting the link in our Instagram bio. We tried to fill it with lots of ideas, from sweet treats to stocking stuffers and more.

[Angela Kinsey]

Again, head to our Instagram bio for the link to shop directly from our Macy's Gift guide Storefront. Happy shopping. So I want to share with you something that I have started doing every year. I take a picture from our year like a special family memory and I make it into an ornament.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ah, you do?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I've been doing it for years.

[Angela Kinsey]

How have we never talked about this?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know. I have always used Shutterfly to do my Christmas cards. Same, but I also use Shutterfly to do my photo GIFs. Yes, especially during the holidays.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it couldn't be easier. You upload photos from your phone to the Shutterfly app and you can start making your personalized item right then and there.

[Jenna Fischer]

You can design a Shutterfly calendar for your extended family or friend group. You can add in all the birthdays, all the anniversaries and other special holidays.

[Angela Kinsey]

I made my mom a calendar. All her grandkids are each month.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Kathy Bates]

Hi, how are you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who's this puppy on your on your lap?

[Kathy Bates]

This is Zelda Hi, Zelda. Yeah, she's. She's in a licking mode. I don't know why. Hi. How are you guys?

[Angela Kinsey]

So good.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so fun to get to see you again after all these years.

[Kathy Bates]

I know. It's been. Let's see. I think I did the show in 11, like, 12 years ago. Yeah, yeah, 12, 13 years ago. It's been a long time.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's been a long time.

[Angela Kinsey]

A lot of life has happened.

[Kathy Bates]

Yes, indeed it has. How are you guys?

[Jenna Fischer]

We're good. We're loving this new job of podcasting. Kathy. I only got dressed on the top. Look at this. Just got my pajama pants on the bottom.

[Kathy Bates]

I didn't even get dressed. I'm still in bed.

[Jenna Fischer]

You are a master podcaster then, already.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we're basically in our closets here. This is a closet.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm in a closet.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, I see.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's how we do it. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us today. We are so excited to talk with you about the Office, about your new show, Matlock. We are huge fans of Matlock.

[Kathy Bates]

Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. We are loving it, Kathy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And we also want to talk about your work with the Lymphatic Education and Research Network.

[Kathy Bates]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you mind if we start with the Office?

[Kathy Bates]

No, I don't mind at all. Let's begin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Well, I'll kick us off with our first question, and it's one we ask all of our guests that were on the Office, and it's how did you get your job on the Office?

[Kathy Bates]

I think they just offered it to me. I was very lucky. I had not seen the show that much, but I watched a great deal of it when I was preparing for the show. And everyone was so brilliant and so effortless. You guys, I don't know how you did it. I felt like when I was doing it, I was really running to catch up, and it was a learning curve. I don't know if it was like that for you guys when you started working on the show, but working with their different cameras and the level and, you know, the comedy that you guys did, I felt that I was really trying to get the feel of that and trying to do. I always felt after I did an episode that I wasn't sure if I'd really done it the best I could.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's so interesting. I mean, our perspective was that you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Were nailing it, like, from the get go, like when you walked in as Joe Bennett. I would have thought you'd been Joe Bennett your whole life.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, really?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, it was such a fully realized character from the beginning.

[Kathy Bates]

Wow. Well, I think I was nervous because you guys do the comedy so well and I don't think of myself as a comedian. And that you worked with the cameras so well, was that a learning curve for you? I mean, did you, when you started out on it, did you. You had done. When did you start doing it with the camera?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, well, the camera was part of my audition.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, same.

[Jenna Fischer]

So from even the audition process, they were wanting me to relate to or not relate to the camera, throw looks to the camera. And I just studied the British version to prepare for my audition, to watch, because that was such a new idea. And also the idea not just that you would relate to the camera, but that you would be embarrassed that the camera picked up on something that maybe you didn't want it to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Kathy, I remember I was really nervous about how to interact with the camera in our pilot episode. You know, the supporting cast, we were just the background. You know, it was a real lesson in patience. And you just had to wait for that moment, you know, when you. You finally got to have a little interaction. But we spent so much time in the background. And my nose was itching so bad one day and I thought, oh, I can't scratch it because I'm on camera. That's weird. And I was, oh, God, I wanted to scratch it so bad. And I went up to Ken Kwapis, our director, and he must have thought I was, like, so silly. I said, ken, my nose was really itching in that last take, and I scratched it and I'm so sorry. And he was like, angela, you are living a life. Live a life. And the camera captures what it captures. If your nose itches, scratch it. And that was sort of an eye opening moment for me about how to just be in the background.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah. One of the episodes that I think I wish I had prepared for first was when Jo comes in and starts talking about the printers. You know, I would like to have gone back and done that and really gone to town with it. But the other ones I really loved working with, or, I mean, Carell, Steve Carell, I couldn't get over what a fantastic actor and improvisationalist he is. So for me, it was great to be around people like him and John and a whole bunch of the guys and gals that just to try and learn from them how they do what they do because it's invisible. Does that make sense?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it does. You don't feel like you're watching someone act when you Watch Steve like I never do. I always believed him. He just is such a natural in whatever role he puts on. I don't see him acting.

[Kathy Bates]

I didn't see him as Dupont.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, in Foxcatcher.

[Kathy Bates]

That's right. He was nominated for an Academy Award.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Kathy Bates]

I was watching it with a friend, and we were in about 15 minutes, and he said, you know who that is? I said, no, who is that? He said, that Steve Carell. I said, you've got to be kidding me. I can't believe that Steve Carell. I mean, he was just. He disappeared into the character. But back on working with him at the office, I just wish I could have learned more from him, you know, I certainly enjoyed working on the show. I thought it was a lot of fun. I did have a problem transitioning from lines that were written and then the improvisation that we were allowed to do. I don't know if I ever really succeeded. I kept getting tripped up on that. But it was a wonderful experience. I know toward the end, since Steve was leaving, they were interested in me possibly staying on, and I had gone on to do Harry's Law, but, you know, I don't want to cast aspersions on anybody, but I think it would have been fun to stay on the office. You know.

[Jenna Fischer]

We would have liked that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Would have loved that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Kathy Bates]

And really developed that character more.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, she had so much. You know, she was so layered. I mean, the scenes between Michael and Jo on the private plane were just so brilliant. I loved those. I wanted to see more of her world. Like, where does she go? And the Great Danes and your outfits and your hair. Were you a part of the look of Joe Bennett?

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, I had this fur coat that I had found that was kind of strips of fur that. That was kind of really kind of low class. But I insisted on wearing that. That was just so inappropriate. And I think, yes, we worked on the hair and the look for her, and it's been a while, so forgive me, I can't remember the wonderful people who worked with me on that to really create something that was out of style. You know, I think she figured. It's what they say, when you figure out what style looks good on you, you stay with it, regardless of your age or anything or fashion. And also just her swagger, you know, I felt she had a lot of swagger and that she was probably a bull in a china shop.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's.

[Kathy Bates]

That's how she ran her company, was. It was just sort of steamrolling over Everybody and with her money. And I loved the Great Danes. I really did. They were great. There was one scene where I said, let's have the great dame. We have to have one of them staring over my shoulder.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, I remember that. It's so brilliant.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, the trainers walk around with a lot of baby diapers, the old fashioned ones, because those dogs slobber a lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is it? So would they wipe them with the baby diaper?

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, the baby. They keep their slobber there from coming out. And they were mother and a son, actually. And I think they weighed about 120 pounds each. Just huge. But really sweet, you know, not really, you know, not really bright. But they were, you know, we had fun with them. And I loved the scene where one was looking over my shoulder.

[Angela Kinsey]

So when that one looks over your shoulder, its head is bigger than yours. It's like its presence on camera is so big.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah. We kept trying to get him to bark. I don't know if we ever succeeded. I can't remember now.

[Jenna Fischer]

What was it like for you to be reunited with Rainn Wilson? He shared with us that you gave him his big break on Six Feet Under.

[Kathy Bates]

You know what? He was so funny. I'll always have this memory. He came up for some reason. We were shooting in Ruth's room and he had just been hired at the funeral home. And so he was rushing out the door. He had to do something. We gave him something to do. He had to go do it really quickly. And he ran out into the hallway and he took a right and then there was this pause and he ran left because he realized that he didn't know where he was going because this was a completely new environment for him. And I thought, oh, my God, this guy is brilliant. It was such an amazing choice. It was a shock. He was so wonderful to work with, so inventive, so funny. Well, all of the things that you saw working with him on the show, I'm sure when I worked with him on your show, he had evolved quite a bit, you know, as an actor. And he's a very funny guy. Really, really liked working with him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, we are both watching Matlocke and we are loving it. I mean, everyone is loving it, Kathy. It is just taking off like wildfire. And we would love to talk to you about it.

[Kathy Bates]

Well, I'm happy to talk about it. Yeah, we're, we're. The numbers are just crazy. They were just off the charts. And the best part about it is that everybody involved with it, whether it's the President of the studio, Amy Reisenbach, who's been our big fan, and David Stapp, the president of the studio, and George Cheeks, who's kind of over all of us in Paramount. They're also normal, you know, and they're accessible. They communicate and they send emails, and, you know, they came to our last Table 3, and I've never had that happen before. And then, of course, there's Jenny Ehrman, who. Who created Jane the Virgin. And she's brilliant. Her mind works like a Rubik's cube. And the layers that she's created in this series is just fascinating. And I'm also an executive producer on the show, so they send me the episodes to take a look at, see if I have any suggestions. And, I mean, it's just. I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait for what's coming up. So when I first met Jenny, you know, I first read the script, and as I was reading along, it seemed like it was just episodic, you know, that it was a case for the week.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Kathy Bates]

And then, of course, there's the twist at the end. And I was thrilled because I think, okay, now this has got substance. It's about something. It's about something meaningful. It's something I can really sink my teeth into. And I read it on a Friday. I met with her on a Monday, and I said, don't change a word. I want to do this. And then we started talking about the character and where it was going and the. The who she was, where she came from, all of the things, how she had planned this all out with her grandson, you know, and it was. It was fascinating. I just. I didn't. I've never imagined playing a character like this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you're really playing two characters, right? So you're playing this sort of like, explain that to people. Because if you watch the first episode, if you watch the pilot, it's one of the best pilots of anything I've ever seen. I remember seeing the pilot for Breaking Bad and thinking, wow, that was a great pilot. And I felt the same way when I saw the pilot for Matlock. The twist at the end is genius. But you had me from the minute you stood at that coffee counter.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you're bumbling. You get a guy to pay for your coffee.

[Angela Kinsey]

You get candies.

[Jenna Fischer]

Your candies in your hand, and you trick your way in to this law firm, into their boardroom, into a job. It is amazing.

[Kathy Bates]

I think so, too. I mean, I had to keep asking Jenny questions about Is this possible? I remember asking a friend of mine who's in corporate law, not corporate law, but he's in the corporate world. He's a dear friend of mine. I said, could you do this? Could you do this? And he thought about it for a minute. He said, yeah, I could. And then I. I don't have kids. So I talked to my niece. She has a daughter who's now grown. And I said, but could you do this? Could you be this, you know, devious and deceitful and lie to people all the time for your daughter? And she said, yes. She said, when you're a mother, your love for your child is savage. And I love, of course, that the fact that she's older. I would never have believed that I could have done a series like this at my age, been asked to do one, and that we've gotten letters from people, from women who say, thank you. I don't feel invisible anymore. I think that you'll see as the series goes on that Matlock is really falling in love with being a lawyer again. You know, she was in mourning for years and years, and then her grandson saw this Reddit post and said, you know, this is a way to get back at them. You know, she can plan everything she wants, but she doesn't expect to be a trial lawyer. And you find out later on in the third episode that she, you know, went into contract law because of a sexual abuse experience instead of going into litigation, which is what she really wanted. And I'm jumping all over here, but that was a seminal moment for her, that she was really able to make a difference, but that she was able to remember her own sexual assault. And it changed her opinion about what young women go through nowadays. And it also shows not just the sexual assault, which is what we all talk about and how bad that is and how prevalent that is, but it talks about what happens then, what happens after. Do you make a different career choice? For women that are trying to get into show business and they get into a really bad situation, what happens to them after that? And in this case, we see Maddie taking a divergent path, one that she wasn't happy with, and she didn't realize that until she met this young woman. So the fact that she's learning all of this from everyone is a very powerful thing to say in an episodic television show on network.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was going to say the idea, you know, I'm 53, but I'm still discovering things about myself. And that life is a discovery. You don't age out of discovery. And I think sometimes we dismiss that. We think that we can't discover new things about ourselves. And I've really connected to that in this show.

[Kathy Bates]

I agree. Yeah, I agree. That's a really good point. Every time I do something, I want to learn from it. And one of the most valuable things, as I was saying, being an exact producer and being able to see the cuts, I'm learning things about my acting, like bad habits, you know, that I want to change without restricting myself. But we're always learning. We're always evolving as artists, as people. We're trying to learn from our experiences. And seeing that happen in a show like this is so. I think that's one of the reasons people are so attracted to it. And it's people from all walks of life, which is what I really like. I feel so grateful that everyone on the show, I think that even the crew, there was a sense when we came back to do episode two, because it was the first time we'd shot in America, we shot the pilot in Toronto. So when we came back to do it here, there was just this buzz and this excitement about getting ready to do the show and the crew. You could feel it on the set. It was just. It was. It was new to me to feel that. And so, I mean, we would all go around looking at each other, or even the day players or the guest cast that would come in would just be looking at us going, oh, my God, we can't believe it's like this is this. We've never worked on a show like this. So it's not just the material that we're putting out for everybody. It's also the experience of doing it every day and the joy of connecting and being vulnerable to one another so that the work really blossoms and you learn something about yourself. All I can say is I'm grateful. I'm just so grateful to have this experience.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, the way you talk about it and the way your face lights up and the way you talk about the people and the crew and the experience, it just reminds me so much of working on the Office, doesn't it, you, Angela?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, so much. Especially Kathy, when you were talking about how exciting it is to get the scripts and have an input. You know, there was such a creative collaboration. Greg Daniels set the tone for that, that we could go to the writers and we could pitch ideas to them, and that was so powerful and meaningful, even as a supporting cast member. So I love that. And you see it in the work. You see the creative collaboration. It's why we're hooked from the minute you're on screen. The cast is so fantastic. I really love the cast. And we can't wait. You know, we'll keep talking about it.

[Kathy Bates]

But I felt like for a minute I felt you were talking about the Office.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Kathy Bates]

Because it's the same way.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, it is.

[Kathy Bates]

You were full blown people. And there was, as you said before, you're living. That's what I'm always saying to Jenny. I don't want to play Maddie. I want to be Maddie. So that's what you guys were doing. And the feeling on the set of the Office is I thought you were talking about you guys. It's the same thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is. It's the same thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] officeladies well, you know, we also would love to talk to you about your advocacy work and your recent health journey and I know Jenna had reached out to you and I would love to start that part of this conversation.

[Kathy Bates]

Great. Jenna, can you tell me where you are in terms of your I know I heard that you have breast cancer. Could you tell me a little bit about where you are in that journey?

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure. So I was diagnosed last December, December 2023. In January I had a lumpectomy and then I had a reconstructive surgery. I had a breast reduction and lift and what they were able to do was take some of my own breast tissue and sort of fill in the hole where they removed the cancer. So I was reconstructed on the one side using my own tissue and then they made the other side match and then I did 12 rounds of taxel chemotherapy. I got that once a week and I did three weeks of radiation and my breast cancer is triple positive. So it was positive for estrogen, progesterone, and HER2. And so for a year I received these immunotherapy infusions of a drug called herceptin, which is a miracle drug that was discovered in my lifetime. Before this drug was introduced to the treatment plan for women with her two positive breast cancers, the survival rate was one of the lowest of the breast cancer diagnoses, and now it's one of the highest. And so I feel very blessed that this is part of my treatment plan. And so I've got a few more infusions of that ahead of me. I get those once every three weeks. And then I will be on tamoxifen, which is an estrogen blocker, for five years. And that's my treatment plan. So I'm finished with the big three, as I called them, the surgery, the chemo, and the radiation. And now I still have a few things, you know, ahead of me, but I, you know, I'm. I'm riding waves of random side effects. Every day it's a little different, you know, it's. I know you. I don't know if you can relate, but one of the hardest parts of this whole process has been just the intense need for flexibility on a day to day basis according to what my body can do, you know, and that's hard for me because I'm a real planner. I love a schedule. I love to do what I say I was going to do. And so that's kind of where I am in the process.

[Kathy Bates]

Well, I had breast cancer. Let's see. Right. I think right as I started, after I started working with you guys, it was 2012. Yeah. And I had a very bad experience with it. I'd had ovarian in 2003, and for some reason, even though I went through nine rounds of chemo for that, that was. The chemo was really hard. It was. We had to do. I can't remember the names of the drugs, but I remember they gave me steroids and then I would be coming off the steroids and just getting. I don't know if you've gone through that, but that's been really difficult. That was very difficult.

[Jenna Fischer]

I got steroids before each round of chemo and I found that the steroids, the side effects of the steroids, having me be real, amped and then crashing kind of right as the chemo would hit me. That was a rough couple days.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, yeah. That was what really. That was difficult for me. But with the breast cancer, that, that sort of came out of nowhere. I Was speaking at Sloan Kettering about being a cancer survivor with ovarian cancer, and then came home and discovered I had breast cancer, which was kind of ironic. And because it ran in my runs in my family, I said, you know, just take both off. Because I had. Mainly it was in my left breast, but there were some troubling things in my right breast. And so I decided to have them both removed. I didn't opt for reconstruction. I don't know why. I think at the time, I just. I didn't want to do it. And they put drains in, and they're very thick, heavy. Not heavy, but thick plastic drains.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm familiar. I had the drains. Yes.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah. And for some reason, on the left side, it must have hit a nerve. I don't know what it was, but it was so painful. And I realized when they removed it, that's what the extra pain was. There was the pain involved. And then I developed lymphedema after that, which my arms were very swollen. I could only wear men's shirts for a long time. And through my doctor here, I met Bill Rapisi, who is the CEO of the Lymphatic Education and Research Network. He asked me to come aboard as a national spokesperson. And I said, bill, I don't. I've never done this before. I don't know if I can do a good job, what's involved. But he told me a couple of really disturbing facts, that nearly 10 million people in this country suffer from some kind of lymphedema, and about 50,000 of those are congenital. So it strikes kids. When we were lobbying in Congress, I met a man who lost three kids to pulmonary lymphedema. Doctors in medical school, in four years of medical school, spend 15 minutes on learning about the lymphatic system and see.

[Angela Kinsey]

Kathy, I did not know what lymphedema was. And when you started talking about it is when I learned about it. And Jenna had shared with me as well. So I think this is so important to talk about.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Something like 20% of breast cancer patients develop lymphedema. And it's because when you get your breast cancer surgery, something that is just standard is they remove some of your lymph nodes to test them for cancer, to see if the cancer has spread that from the breast, those lymph nodes underneath your arm, that's first stop shopping for the cancer. So they test those lymph nodes, but they remove them. And when you mess with the lymphatic system like that, when you do that surgery you increase your risk of developing lymphedema. And it was something that luckily my doctor did explain to me before my surgery. They educated me on the warning signs about my arms swelling or my legs or ankles swelling. And my cancer was on my left side. And I had my lymph nodes removed on my left side. And they have told me that whenever I get a blood pressure cuff, it needs to be on my right side. And if I'm going to get an iv, it needs to be placed on my right side, because that is just how incredibly vulnerable your lymphatic system is to disturbance.

[Kathy Bates]

Well, I'm thrilled to hear you say all of that because that means that the doctors have learned about it and are making patients aware of it. When I had breast cancer, and I had my breast cancer done at a top notch place here, but the doctors didn't talk to me about that. I kept talking to them about it because I had been dating a guy at the time who had it in his left arm, and it's progressive and it's incurable. And he had gone through experimental treatment to survive cancer and did not want to go to another doctor until, you know, ever in his life. And as a result, his arm became like wood.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kathy Bates]

And that was my fear. And also that, you know, I was afraid that that was what lymphedema was. And I was full of rage because I had told the doctors, I'm worried about this, I'm worried about this, I'm worried about this. And they took so many lymph nodes. But I'm thrilled that they told you all of that, because back then, my doctor had to go and look it up on the Internet.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah. He found this woman, wonderful Dr. Emily Eicher, who was able to work with me and get my arms down over a period of time. And now that I've lost a lot of weight, that really helped. But trying to educate people over the last 10 years has been a real journey. We would get emails from people. I remember one guy, I'll never forget him, John Dayo, who wrote us an email. And at the end of the email, all capital letters, help me, Help me. Help me, Help me, Help me. Because the people are in so much pain, they don't know who to go to. I'm really proud of all of the work that we've done with learn. Our CEO has gone all around the world. We have now the first National Commission on Lymphatic Disease at the nih. They had their first meeting a couple of Months ago. And we worked really hard to have that happen. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut, the congresswoman there, was instrumental in getting us the attention that we needed to get this commission going. We got a grant from the CDC for publicity to really create our outreach for people. We're now working on the DoD because it's not just underneath our arms. If these veterans come back and their traumatic injuries have damaged their lymph system, they're at risk. We have a man who wanted to be in the Coast Guard, and he came back from the military, and he was just a mess, and he had to give up that dream. That's been the most moving and sad parts of this, is realizing that people had to give up their greens because of. And there's a kind of lymphedema that happens when you're, like, late teens, early 20s, when you're just beginning your life, and out of nowhere, they don't know what it is. It's some predisposition that occurs at that time. And I appreciate so much you're letting me talk about it on your show, because education is key. And I always tell the people that are at our lobby Sessions in Washington, D.C. your pain is your power. Your story is your power. And the fact that you can share your story with me and you can tell people how far we've come. Yeah, it's amazing that you have perky breasts.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, And I do. I do like how my shirts fit me better now. I'll say that. And my hair, Kathy, after chemotherapy, so before chemotherapy, my hair was almost all gray. And after chemotherapy, my hair is growing in, not gray.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I heard that people said, oh, if you have straight hair, it might come back curly. If you have curly hair, like, it'll come back a different texture. It might come back a different color.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, you're not having to color your hair.

[Jenna Fischer]

How about that?

[Kathy Bates]

That's so great. I'm jelly. I'm totally jelly. No, I lost everything. I lost every hair everywhere. Some of it I'm glad I lost, but it took me a while to get it back. Yeah, it was hard.

[Jenna Fischer]

They don't. You know, they. When I heard that I was going to have to have chemo, my first two thoughts were, I don't want to throw up, and I don't want to lose my hair. That's what I associated chemotherapy with. And I didn't throw up, but I did lose my hair. And it didn't occur to me till it was happening that it is all your hair. It's your eyebrows and your eyelashes and all of it everywhere. And it's weird. My eyebrows came back real quickly, though. I was happy for that because I was not great at drawing them in. But. But it's really weird to not have eyelashes. Yeah.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah. I don't think my eyelashes really came back. Or maybe it's just being older. Yeah. I had a friend of mine, actually, Judy Corey, who did my hair for Misery. She came, and that was back in 2003.

[Jenna Fischer]

She.

[Kathy Bates]

She came over and shaved my head for me. And then after I had a bald head, I mean, I. I did use all these. Had things made like caps and all this bullshit wigs and everything. And finally, I just thought I saw Melissa Etheridge, you know, just wailing on her guitar on some kind of a show. It was bald head. And I thought, okay, you know, time to just stop all this hiding and. And just be who you are. But I'm thrilled that there are all of these new. What was the H1 that you said? Herpa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. Herceptin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Herceptin.

[Kathy Bates]

Herceptin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Herceptin. Yeah. It's a targeted immunotherapy. I mean, really, it's only been out for about 25 years, and it has just drastically changed the prognosis for women with her two positive breast cancers.

[Kathy Bates]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's really amazing.

[Kathy Bates]

Wow. Oh, bless you. You didn't have to go through that. And you're not having any problems with your arm?

[Jenna Fischer]

I am not, no. And I'm really. I'm really grateful for that. And. And after my surgery, my doctor also prescribed some physical therapy, so I was able to get that side moving. You know, it's very tender, though. I have to say, of all my scars, of all of the ways that I've been poked and prodded in this process of getting a port and all the things that scar underneath my arm from where they removed the lymph nodes is the most tender. It's still tight when I try to raise my arm above my head. It is really, truly such a sensitive area.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, it's going to be tender, I think. I mean, this is new. You've only had it, what, for a year? Gone through it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. January is the anniversary of my surgery.

[Kathy Bates]

Look at all you've done in a year.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, Kathy, I remember you worked right after your chemotherapy. You went back to work pretty quickly. And I read something that you said, which was that it was a little bit of an opportunity to be not a cancer patient. You got to play a character. And I have kept working through my treatment, and I needed that for my mental health. I needed a place that I went throughout the week. And I just laughed with my best friend. And we talked about these great memories of our time on this show together because really, truly, it is so many appointments, it is so much of my life and my time is spent with doctors and being a patient that I needed a place where I wasn't that.

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, it's true. Lynn Redgrave, God rest her, she was going through fifth stage breast cancer and on the downward slope. I wasn't done with chemotherapy, actually. I just was about to start it, and I was having gastro problems. And she said, you got to do this. You can be somebody else, you know, as you're saying, for the day. And she was right. You know, it gave me. Although I was pretty cranky for a while because I just wasn't. I wasn't healed yet. You know, I was. It was a little too soon, but it was also, I. I couldn't turn down the payday. I really needed the payday because I really dropped out. I was scared. I was one of those people. And this was with the ovarian. I. I was one of those people who stayed up at night, you know, and looked at the Internet to see if I could divine anything. But knock wood, it's been 20 years and, and, And I don't think I'm going to be having more problems with that. How are you doing emotionally?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, you're so kind to ask, how am I doing emotionally. I'm okay most of the time, but at least once a week I get mad because every day I feel like I have to swim upstream a little bit. I have to swim against the current just to have a normal day. And it's exhausting. But I am really so very well supported by my husband and by friends, by Angela. But I did notice that there was a real swell of support during chemotherapy, I think, because people know how hard that is to get through. And when the chemo was over, some of the support went away. Sometimes I feel like I'm bothering people or I feel like they're going to get frustrated with me. They're going to be like, geez, is this ever going to end with her? And that's how I feel. I feel like, geez, is this ever going to end with me? But I do still need support. And I think that's something I would want people to know if they have a friend or a family member going through this, is that the struggle doesn't End when the treatments, quote, unquote, end.

[Kathy Bates]

You know, I think that's a great point. And I think that's exactly what I experienced when I had ovarian cancer. You know, I had a friend at the time who was so supportive, supportive. And I remember at one point my. We were getting ready to go somewhere and I was sitting on the step doing my lacing my shoes and my cap fell off. And he sort of laughed and I just said, this is so hard for me. And then I found out that as I progressed through the chemotherapy, this was for ovarian, that people have exactly that reaction, only they left sooner during my. Because it went on for nine months. My doctor wanted me to do it for six months, but he said, you're doing well, so let's do it, you know, another three months. And people just sort of dropped away because they didn't. They said, wow, you know, isn't this over? Isn't it going to be done? Is it? You know, they didn't have the, the patience really. And so I went to my chemotherapy sessions by myself.

[Jenna Fischer]

I got to Kathy.

[Kathy Bates]

Well, I got to the point of where I would just go by myself. It was easier to go and hope that I got the really good looking Russian nurse who would come in. I don't know what his name was. I can't remember Vasily or something like that or Yvonne or what. I was like, oh my God, he's. He's here today. Great, great. But it would take about four hours, you know, to, to be in there. And they gave me a private room and all of that. So being a VIP help and thank God with the breast cancer, I didn't have to go through chemotherapy or radiation. And which is one reason why I opted to just make it a double. Yeah, but I was really enraged after. But we talked about that before and it wasn't until I sat with Dr. Eicher, you know, and I told her all of the things I was feeling and the rage that I was feeling. And she's this charming little woman, Czechoslovakian, and she's just said something like, okay, well, let's have a glass of champagne and then we will begin the rest of your life. Somehow she just slowly pulled me out of my rage. And then working with, with learn, I was able to use it, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

To, to give it purpose.

[Kathy Bates]

To give it purpose, to give back, to do something real in the real world, which is like what you guys are doing. Angela, have you ever had to deal with anything like this?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. My grandmother and my aunt were all breast cancer survivors. My grandmother passed away, but not from cancer. And my. My aunt, my mom's sister had a really rough go, but she's doing much better now. So I go and, you know, get my mammograms and try to stay on top of it. But, you know, when Jenna got her diagnosis, all I wanted to do was be a source of support, and I wanted to just be strong for her. And, you know, we never really talked it out about just the scary side of it and those emotions until we sat down on our podcast to talk about it for the first time. And I think I cried for 20 minutes. And we couldn't even use it because it was the first time I said out loud she was cancer free. You know, it's like I. And we finally talked about it, I completely fell apart. I held it together for a year, but then I just fell apart, because just watching someone you care about go through it and not knowing what the hell you can do other than to just say, I'm thinking of you and I love you, and I'm praying for you, and. And that's about it, you know, and just try to keep being there for her and being steadfast and hoping I was enough to help her when she needed it. But it is so important that you guys are sharing about it. It's so important. We've had so many people reach out to us. When Jenna shared. And, Kathy, I know you're having this experience, too, that the burden of feeling alone in it, the burden of feeling like you can't talk about it, that itself is just too much to bear, I think, on top of everything else. And I'm so happy to be part of this conversation with you all and for people listening to hear it.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, thank you. Too many of us and younger and younger and younger are getting breast cancer. Developing breast cancer. And I'm so heartened by what I've learned from you today, Jenna, because to realize that the strides that they've made just in the last 20 years is phenomenal, and I wish I'd had that kind of treatment. I'm trying to remember the name of the chemo that I was on for ovarian.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did you get it every three weeks? Yeah, Yeah, I got one that was once a week.

[Kathy Bates]

Do you recall the name of it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Mine was called Taxol.

[Kathy Bates]

You know, I think that's the same one I had, but only every three weeks. Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

They can do it in other doses. Yeah, they can do it. Yeah.

[Kathy Bates]

Did you know that it comes from the Yew tree. And the druids felt that the yew tree was represented. Rebirth.

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fischer]

But can I tell you something? So every time they brought. I'm going to get emotional. Every time they brought the chemotherapy in to the room, and every time they bring the Herceptin in, my husband would go up to it and he would thank it for being there. He would say, thank you. We welcome you into Jenna's body to do your work. You are welcome here. We are so excited to have you here. We are happy you exist, and we welcome you into her body to rid her of this cancer.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

My husband said. He said if when it gets in the room, we tense up and we hate it and we're negative, he said that. It's just. He was like, I want us to have a different attitude when it comes in the room. I want us to have an attitude of gratitude. I want us to thank it for being here. And he said, I think that that will. That openness in your body to accept this medicine will help it do its work. That's what he said. Isn't that beautiful?

[Kathy Bates]

Phenomenal. That's phenomenal. And I think it's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I can't believe what you said about that tree.

[Kathy Bates]

Oh, yes. My niece dug that up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Kathy Bates]

You know, I was an old hippie at one point in my life, so. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Kathy, thank you for sharing all of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, thank you. First of all, we are going to share everything about the Lymphatic Education and Research Network on our social media. I will put swipe up to links so people can learn more. And then we thought we would end this interview with a tradition from the office call sheets. On the back of our call sheets, they would do a few questions and get to know the cast and crew, and they would feature a new person each week. So Jenna and I picked our three favorite questions that were the regular questions, and we'd like to ask them to you.

[Kathy Bates]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

The first one is, what is a place that you have been to that you absolutely loved?

[Kathy Bates]

I was at a place called the Spring Cottage. It was in England. It was on the Thames. It belonged to Lady Astor. It's now part of the national preserve there. And we were doing a movie, and I got to stay down at the Spring Cottage, and it was right on the river, and it had its own boat. It had a butler, if you can believe that. And it's where Lady Sutherland lived. And Queen Victoria would come and have tea there, and you can look at pictures of it. It's just so beautiful. Cliveden House, Taplow. Yeah. Built for Queen Victoria by the Sutherland, and it's located on the River Thames in the grounds of Cliveden House. It's a three bedroom riverside property with a private garden and covered porch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that sounds lovely.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, done. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

But Kathy, you've also, like, traveled the country in an rv, right?

[Kathy Bates]

Yes, I did. I recently sold it, but I loved it.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is one of my favorite memories of being in hair and makeup with you is that I was wanting to go on a road trip and you were telling me about your RV trips in hair and makeup, and that was a dream of my dad's and I just loved it. I hung on your every word. I was like, I want to load up and go see America.

[Kathy Bates]

It's great. When I bought it, my niece said at the time, it's the boomer thing to do. But we found these wonderful places to stay, and a lot of them, I guess it is a boomer thing to do. You can find these beautiful places with your pads that you have all of your electricity. You have like a, you know, a barbecue place, but then they'll have a main building where you can do laundry. And there's. I mean, some of them are just out of this world. I highly recommend them, especially if you have a loved one. It's really a couples thing to do.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Kathy Bates]

Or a family thing to do.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm curious, what was your favorite spot that you visited in your rv or what did you go to? A lot of national parks and things.

[Kathy Bates]

Actually, my favorite place, I went to my hometown, Memphis, and through friends, I found a very simple spot on the western side of the Mississippi. And we were right there with the Mississippi River. Literally, there was nothing in between us. And his family had left it to him, this piece of property, and he turned it into an RV park. I don't know what it is now. That was one of my favorite places.

[Angela Kinsey]

Two of your favorite places are on a river, Kathy?

[Kathy Bates]

Yeah, I like rivers.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our next question is, do you play a musical instrument?

[Kathy Bates]

I used to play the guitar, and I don't anymore, but I. I have a couple of ones that I really, really enjoy. And the first job I ever got was a movie called Taking off. And I had. I played a song that I wrote when I was 16, and it was in the movie. It was Milos Forman's first film, American film.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Kathy Bates]

But that's been many, many years ago. I loved playing. I taught myself how to play. And so it was. I miss it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow. Okay. That is so cool. I mean, you wrote a song that's in a movie that's just. It's amazing. That's pretty cool. Last question. What do you like to do on the weekends?

[Kathy Bates]

It depends what I like to do on the weekends. Sometimes I like to go to a real movie theater and see a movie. Sometimes I'm learning lines. It's depending if I'm working or not. What else do I like to do? I like to color. I like to color coloring books and stuff. And I have, in fact, Jenny Ehrman, who wrote our series, just sent me a box of wonderful pencils and coloring books because she loves to do that. And I have an app on my iPad that I love to do. I love the color. I love to listen to books on tape. That's one of the things I'm really starting to enjoy on my hiatus, is that I'm now back to listening to books and reading a lot of different kinds of books. I just finished a book called the Conclave last night, which is brilliant. I know there's a film out about it. I want to go and see that. So, yes, I'll do. I like to read. I like to color. I guess it's kind of like a. I don't know. Maybe I'm. It's stuck at 13 years old. I don't know. But those are the kinds of things I like to do and be with my dog, my puppy, and just very low key.

[Angela Kinsey]

That sounds lovely.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Kathy, you are such an icon of the entertainment business. You're such an icon. And I wondered if we could end the interview by asking you, what is the best piece of advice you received in your career? And what advice might you give an aspiring actor?

[Kathy Bates]

Well, it all boils down to someone once told me, you have to have a head like a bullet and a heart like a baby. And I could expand on that by saying, especially nowadays with social media being so powerful and powerful in negative ways is that you really have to be. You have to get strong, you have to get tough, and at the same time not get cynical or bitter. But you've got to protect yourself. I don't advocate being on social media, unless in your case, it's a great thing for your show. You need to do that. But I don't want to read negative things about myself. I just think that the best kind of advice I could give is, if you're serious about being an actor, if you want to be an actor like Cillian Murphy or Anthony Hopkins or Cape Blanchett, you have to Study. You have to work. You can't just be. It's wonderful to be young and to be given an opportunity. And if you've got that spark, if you've got it and you can really sail out there, that's great. And then I'd say, protect your heart. Don't let your heart get hurt by strangers who say things about you or your work. Because work is what got us here. Work is what gonna keep us here. I mean, it's like you guys were talking about the collaborative aspect of your work, and that was the focus of what you did, and that's what made it so wonderful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I love that. I feel like it's sometimes hard to be an artist because you do have to keep that open heart in order to do the work, but that makes it so that you're. I don't know, it's. It's so easy to get wounded when you have that open heart. So it's such a balance.

[Kathy Bates]

It is. It's a gift to be porous. It works great in your work, but it's not so great in the world outside. It can be difficult. But I remember producer, because I got very hurt one time in London by an awful interviewer, and I literally left the tour. And I remember the producer coming to me and saying, have to get a lot tougher. You're going to have to toughen up, you know, and he was right. Anyway, I appreciate being able to chat with you in a very open and safe way. And I think we talked about some wonderful things. And I'm so happy for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, thank you.

[Kathy Bates]

Happy for you, Jenna, that you're. That you come through this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kathy, it was. It was such an honor to work with you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, you did something at our first table read together that I never forgot. You sat down at the table and you had the script and you got out a golden folding fan, the kind that you go like and you would fan yourself because you were hot, you know? And I thought to myself, one day, I am going to earn the right to fan myself with a golden fan. Kathy, my goal in life is to win a Tony. I want to do a Broadway show. I want to win a Tony. And when I walk up on that stage to accept my award, I am going to get out a golden fan and I am going to fan myself in your honor.

[Kathy Bates]

I'll wait for that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I really will.

[Kathy Bates]

I'm excited for you to do that. Angela, thank you so much. It was great speaking with you today. I really appreciate it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you so much. Kathy, you're a light in the world and we, we just adore you. So thank you so much.

[Kathy Bates]

Thank you so much for the opportunity. Bye, guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bye. Take care.

[Kathy Bates]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man, I just loved all of that. I loved just spending time with her. I really felt like we got to spend time with her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I just love how happy in this new job, in this new chapter of her life, you and I can really relate to that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Matlock, you guys airs on CBS every Thursday at 9pm Eastern and it's also streaming on Paramount plus and it's already been picked up for a second season.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, Angela, we also said we would share a swipe up in our stories where people can learn more about lymphedema. And I would also like to include a link to the breast cancer risk assessment test. It is a test that you can take online at home to calculate your risk for developing breast cancer. And it's kind of based on your age, breast density, family history, and if you have an increased risk, you can share those results with your doctor and you might qualify for additional diagnostic testing. For example, if you are at a high risk but you're younger than 40, you might qualify for an annual mammogram much sooner. I have said before that my success with treatment is due to my very early detection. So it's really worth taking the test.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So important.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, everyone, thanks for listening today. We're going to be back with you on Friday with a special holiday bonus episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, we can't wait. It's really festive, it's really fun and we just hope you guys have a great week. Know that we're thinking of you and we'll see you Friday.

[Jenna Fischer]

See you then. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubaco.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dennis Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hey everyone, we want to tell you about Klarna.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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