Mailbag & Fan Theories

Summary

Office Ladies Episode Summary: "Mailbag & Fan Theories"
Release Date: April 9, 2025
Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey

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In this engaging episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey delve into their listener mailbag and explore intriguing fan theories about their beloved series, The Office. Skipping over advertisements and introductory segments, the pair focus on sharing heartfelt listener interactions and dissecting popular and unconventional theories surrounding the show's characters and setting.

1. Mailbag Highlights

A. Listener Shout-Outs and Gifts

Jenna and Angela begin by expressing their gratitude for the overwhelming support from their listeners. They share stories about fan-submitted letters, cards, and thoughtful gifts that have warmed their hearts.

• Dana L. from Los Angeles sent a card explaining how their podcast provided joy and company, accompanied by the humorous book "What Would Keanu Do?" by Chris Barsanti. Angela shares, “[05:06] Jenna Fischer: When Angela opened this package, she squealed.”

• Martha G. from Virginia sent handmade Christmas pillows featuring an orange cat and a hummingbird, which both hosts adore for their unique patchwork design.

• Brittany Z. from Lafayette, Colorado contributed a creative wedding announcement crafted from a hand-stitched stapler and Jell-O, showcasing the inventive spirit of their listeners.

• Elise from Arizona shared a heartfelt letter detailing how the podcast has been a meaningful part of her life, especially during her marriage to Zaid. Jenna warmly congratulates Elise, “[10:36] Jenna Fischer: Congratulations. And a big thank you to Elise's dad.”

• Sam and Cassie received friendship bracelets from Claire, a fellow Swifty, which Angela highlights as a delightful connection made at a Taylor Swift concert.

Jenna and Angela also respond to deeply personal letters, including those discussing cancer journeys and the impact of their podcast during challenging times like Hurricane Helene, emphasizing the profound connection they share with their audience.

2. Fan Theories Discussion

The core of the episode revolves around two major fan theories: "Is Bob Vance Part of the Scranton Mafia?" and "Is The Office Actually Hell?" The hosts meticulously examine listener-submitted evidence and their own observations to unpack these theories.

A. Is Bob Vance Part of the Scranton Mafia?

Theory Overview:
Listeners, including Megan F. from Omaha and Tegan B. from Wales, propose that Bob Vance, the owner of Vance Refrigeration, might be involved in the Mafia, using his business as a front for illegal activities.

Evidence Presented:

1. Financial Anomalies:
   Kelly B. from Annapolis points out Bob’s extravagant generosity, such as offering $1,000 to hug his wife ([26:14] Jenna Fischer).

2. Phyllis’s References:
   In the Peacock Superfan episode "Branch Closing," Phyllis describes her role in Bob's operations, hinting at illicit activities: “[26:26] Angela Kinsey: My fiance, Bob Vance, he told me he'd give me a job at Vance Refrigeration. I’m called a senior advisor. I don’t even have to come into work and I get paid in cash.”

3. Secret Operations:
   Various episodes depict Bob as having significant influence and possibly using his refrigeration fleet for nefarious purposes, such as hiding bodies.

4. Pop Culture Connections:
   Jenna references the movie The Irishman, where mobsters use refrigerated trucks, drawing parallels to Bob’s business and the Scranton Mafia's historical context.

Hosts’ Analysis:
Angela suggests that while Bob may be involved in shady business, having Phyllis as a mafia wife would complicate matters, potentially conflicting with Michael's responsibilities at Dunder Mifflin. Jenna adds that Phyllis’s continued employment hints at her enjoying her role, regardless of Bob's true nature. They conclude that while Bob likely engages in illegal activities, the full extent of his involvement remains speculative.

Notable Quotes:

• “[26:44] Jenna Fischer: I want you to know Phyllis smiles at the end of that after she realizes it might be a little illegal.”
• “[37:07] Angela Kinsey: Bob Vance of Vance Refrigeration. They’re, like, so jealous.”

B. Is The Office Actually Hell?

Theory Overview:
Rooted in the concept that real-life monotonous and stressful jobs can feel akin to Hell, this theory posits that Dunder Mifflin serves as a purgatorial environment for its employees, with specific episodes symbolizing Hellish elements.

Evidence Presented:

1. Stanley's Heart Attack:
   In the "Stress Relief" episode, Stanley suffers a heart attack during a fire drill, leading some fans to speculate that his death sends him to an eternal Hell-like version of his workplace.

2. Dunder Mifflin as Purgatory:
   The monotony and frustrations experienced by characters like Stanley, who dreams of retirement, are interpreted as manifestations of Hellish traits.

3. Character Roles:
   Certain characters exhibit traits that could symbolize demons or hosts within this Hellish office setting, such as Toby being depicted negatively by many fans.

Hosts’ Analysis:
Angela reflects on her own past monotonous jobs, aligning them with the theory’s premise. The hosts find humor in interpreting Stanley's everyday struggles as metaphysical punishments, ultimately viewing the theory as a playful yet reflective take on workplace dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• “[48:00] Angela Kinsey: Hell is the office. Let’s put it in the terms of how we grew up.”
• “[49:16] Angela Kinsey: So the theory goes, Stanley’s heart attack kills him and he goes to the Bad place. And the bad place for him is Dunder Mifflin.”

3. Exploring Worst Office Characters

In addition to fan theories, Jenna and Angela discuss lists ranking the "worst" characters from The Office, highlighting why certain personalities earned their spots.

• Ryan Howard and Todd Packer:
  Identified as top antagonists due to their manipulative and unprofessional behaviors.

• Jan Levinson:
  Criticized for her volatility and tumultuous relationship with Michael Scott.

• Gabe Lewis and Dwight Schrute:
  Gabe is noted for his awkwardness and lack of social grace, while Dwight is portrayed as excessively aggressive and domineering.

Notable Quotes:

• “[56:24] Jenna Fischer: Can I guess who they are? Robert California.”
• “[57:14] Jenna Fischer: He did cut off the face of that CPR dog. That’s pretty creepy.”

4. Personal Anecdotes and Listener Engagement

Throughout the episode, Jenna and Angela share personal stories related to the discussed theories and their interactions with fans. They engage in lighthearted banter about misunderstood phrases and recount funny incidents from their time on The Office.

Personal Hell Stories:

• Jenna describes her aversion to prolonged social engagements, likening obligatory dinner parties to her personal form of Hell.
• Angela shares her frustration with repetitive and intrusive behaviors during confined travel situations.

Notable Quotes:

• “[53:28] Jenna Fischer: We’re leaving and be like, we need.”
• “[54:10] Angela Kinsey: One time I was on a bus and there was a woman sitting behind me and it was like a two-hour bus ride and she had a water bottle that she kept doing this to.”

5. Closing Thoughts and Key Anecdote

As the episode wraps up, Jenna and Angela reflect on the depth and creativity of their fandom, encouraging listeners to continue sharing their thoughts and theories. They conclude with an uplifting anecdote inspired by Keanu Reeves:

• Keanu's Wisdom:
  “[58:16] Angela Kinsey: People can’t be excellent to you unless you’re being excellent to yourself.”
  Jenna echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of self-love and excellence in relationships.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “[05:06] Jenna Fischer: When Angela opened this package, she squealed.”
• “[26:14] Angela Kinsey: It’s true, he’s got some deep pockets.”
• “[48:00] Angela Kinsey: Hell is the office. Let’s put it in the terms of how we grew up.”
• “[58:16] Angela Kinsey: People can’t be excellent to you unless you’re being excellent to yourself.”

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This episode of Office Ladies not only showcases the deep bond between Jenna and Angela but also highlights the vibrant and imaginative The Office fan community. Whether unraveling complex theories or sharing heartfelt listener messages, the hosts provide a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of their favorite show.

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For more delightful insights and behind-the-scenes stories from The Office, tune in to future episodes of Office Ladies each week.

Transcript

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello. Good morning.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I'm excited about today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

Today warms my heart.

[Angela Kinsey]

Warms my heart. Brought me joy. And it's all because of you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. Ange, tell everybody what we're doing today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we are covering two very funny fan theories.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, you guys had a lot to say about our Is Toby the Scranton Strangler fan theory. So we thought we would explore a few more that you have made us aware of.

[Angela Kinsey]

But you guys, we're not going to debate these two like we did. Toby is the Scranton Strangler. Although I would really like to do another debate.

[Jenna Fischer]

I would as well, yes. We need to find another debate topic.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. If you have any ideas.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Hit us up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But today we're going to do more of a deep dive. Yeah, I took one. Angela took the other. I took is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have thoughts.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have lots of fan evidence saying that he is.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm going to tackle a fan theory. You guys, it's pretty out there, but it's called is the office actually hell.

[Jenna Fischer]

He told me about?

[Angela Kinsey]

This is Dunder Mifflin, where you go if you go to the bad place.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, boy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, boy.

[Jenna Fischer]

But before we get to our fan theories, we also wanted to dive into some of the things we have found in our office lady's mailbag, because we picked up more mail from our PO Box, and we suddenly got a delivery that had been sitting at Earwolf since 2023.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, you guys, we love hearing from you. And here's the thing. You know what we were both saying? We're so thankful they didn't toss it out, so thank you for bringing it to us.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we went through it and it was just. It was such a special day, Ange. It meant the world to us.

[Angela Kinsey]

It really was. Jenna. You know, we were both so moved that you all take the time to sit down and write us letters and cards. And we were reading them and we were laughing and we were tearing up, and we would interrupt each other. We'd say, wait, wait, you have to hear this. You have to hear this. Or we would hold something up and, you know, just. Thank you so much for your kindness.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Your mail. It made us laugh. It made us cry. We appreciate you sharing with us, and we're excited to share some of the treasures now with everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela, do you want to kick us off?

[Angela Kinsey]

I will. I'm going to kick us off. I mean, this just tickled me. I want to shout out Dana L. From Los Angeles. Dana wrote us a card sharing what the office and our podcast mean to her. They really kept her company and brought her joy. And she says she appreciates our positivity, our friendship and womanhood. Then she said, please accept this silly book as a token of my deep gratitude. You guys. It's a book titled what Would Keanu Do?

[Jenna Fischer]

When Angela opened this package, she squealed.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got so excited.

[Angela Kinsey]

Listen to this title. It's what Would Keanu Do? And then underneath it, it says, personal philosophy and awe inspiring advice from the patron saint of. Whoa. Again, Again.

[Jenna Fischer]

Keanu as a patron saint on the COVID Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is written by Chris Barsanti. Here is the summary of the book. It says, this book examines everyday challenges people face and help solve the same problems by applying the philosophical lessons exposed by Keanu Reeves or one of his films.

[Jenna Fischer]

So if I gave you a problem right now, could you open up to a page in the book and tell me how to solve it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Possibly.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

It also has, and I'm quoting, Keanu Dotes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Anecdotes. But Keanu dotes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Keanu dotes. Here's one of them. And this is from Keanu himself. Not one of his characters. The simple act of paying attention can take you a long way. So just sit with that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I see this book?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. All right. I don't know who needs to hear this, but trust your gut. For Point Break's Johnny Utah. Buying two meatball subs is a lesson in listening to your instincts.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, Johnny Utah, it's a deep thinker. Didn't he also say, surf's up, bruh? Well, Dana, thank you for that. That is no doubt a gift that's going to keep on giving. We might have to bring up some Keanu Keanikdotes as we move along. Office Lady 6.0.

[Jenna Fischer]

Loved it. Well, we would also like to give a very big thank you to Martha G. From Virginia. Martha, we got your Christmas pillows.

[Angela Kinsey]

They are so stinking cute.

[Jenna Fischer]

They are amazing. They came with sweet handmade cards. Mine had an orange cat. Angela, yours had a hummingbird. We love these pillows. And you know what I love about them? They're circles. Everybody, I want you to. When I said pillow, you probably thought square, but, oh, no, they are like a patchwork pattern like you might see on a quilt. And they are a circle. And I literally can't wait to put mine out next Christmas.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait. I'm going to put this out every single Christmas.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, Every Christmas, Martha. Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was our biggest box.

[Angela Kinsey]

We were excited about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We thought, what's inside this giant box? You made our day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Next up for me, y'all know I love a wedding. I love a wedding. And I just want to give a shout out to every single person that sent us baby announcements, graduations, and, of course, weddings. You are so creative with your announcements and invitations. I. I mean, I'm just going to highlight a few, but I love them all. First up, Brittany Z. In Lafayette, Colorado. She sent us a hand stitch stapler in Jell O with her wedding announcement.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that so cute?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ugh. I opened the invitation. I didn't know this was going to fall out of it. This is adorable. So creative. Then we got a wedding invitation from Kelsey. She. She wrote us to tell us how much she loved the podcast, and she also sent us a Keanu Reeves coloring book.

[Jenna Fischer]

My goodness.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then she said, I know how much you gals love weddings. So I wanted to share my wedding invitation. It's from 2016. But, Jenna, this is so creative. I mean, it looks like a book.

[Jenna Fischer]

It looks like you're holding a little book.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. So her and her husband Walker got married in Georgia, and their wedding had a book theme. Come on. Their invitation is like a little book, and when you open it up, it's like the library card. Do you see the library card?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my. This is definitely the most creative wedding invitation I've ever seen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And look, you pull out the, like, catalog card, like, if you've checked out the book from the library. Yes. And then that's where you check if you're accepting or going.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's the thing you send back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that so cute? I just couldn't get over it. I'll put it in our stories. So creative. Next, I wanted to share this sweet note from Elise. She married Zaid this past month in Arizona, and she sent us the cutest little stationery. Look at this little cat. So cute. And this is what she wrote. Dear Jenna And Angela, in 2019, my dad told me he thought I'd like a new podcast. It was made by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. I became an avid office ladies listener right away. It was right around the same time that I started dating this new guy. I love a dot, dot, dot. All these years later, and I've never stopped listening to your pod. And I'm about to marry that guy. Wow. It feels like your podcast has been such a real and meaningful part of this time in my life. And I can't think of any better ladies and besties to truly be my own besties and favorite storytellers. And most of all, two amazing moms during this chapter of my own life and girlhood. Thanks for all that you do. And they got married this year in January of 2025.

[Jenna Fischer]

Congratulations. And a big thank you to Elise's dad.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that so sweet?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then look, Sam, Cassie, she said. Ps. Hi, Sam. Hi, Cassie. Hi. Hi. Hi, Elise. Congratulations on your wedding. Lastly, I want to shout out Dan and Andrea, who sent out the cutest little invite cards that said, it is our wedding with the balloons.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's so cute.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they invited us all to their wedding. They said, don't worry. We promise we didn't steal any of Pam's ideas, and we won't kid and we won't kidnap Angela. They said they're still debating where to take their mini moon. Maybe Niagara or Scranton.

[Jenna Fischer]

Aw.

[Angela Kinsey]

But anyway, so cute. Everyone is so creative. Thank you for sharing your invitations with us. I love seeing your baby announcements, graduation invites, all of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, lady, I opened a couple that I want to share as well. First of all, speaking of books, we got a baby shower announcement from way back in July 2023. It was honoring Michelle D. From Carmel, New York. And here's what I loved. Now, I know this has become, I think, kind of popular with baby showers, but I sure wish this was around when I had my babies. She said, one small request. Please bring a book instead of a card. By signing your book, we'll remember and share your special gift even when you're not there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, like a children's book.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. This has become a trend where at baby showers, you bring a children's book and you write a little message in it. And then your child kind of starts off with a library filled with not just great books, but messages from loved ones.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is so wonderful.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think this is a thing now. Don't you wish that you had that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do. Same especially because people who are parents before you, they know the good ones. You might know a few from your childhood, but then they'll be like, oh, you also need to read this one. Or, that's a great gift.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know which one I always give as a baby shower gift?

[Angela Kinsey]

Which one?

[Jenna Fischer]

The Tiger who Came to Tea. My kids loved it. It is, like, I think over in the uk this is like, in the world of, like, Goodnight Moon, because the British know this book, and it was actually a British person who gave it to me, and my kids absolutely adored it. It's about a tiger who comes over and eats all the food, came for tea, and ate all the food. I think it's an oldie but a goodie over there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, one of the books my mom saved from when I was a little one and I still have it, was the story of Ferdinand.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So I read my actual copy of Growing up to Isabel, and it's still in publication, so that's one that I give as a gift.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I also want to shout out a big congratulations to Mackenzie M. Who sent us her graduation announcement from Arizona College of Nursing. She's a nurse. Mackenzie, thank You. We need nurses.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And good luck in your new career.

[Angela Kinsey]

Next up is a letter that we got from Camille in Tennessee, and it just warmed my heart. Camille says that she listens to the Office Ladies podcast to keep her company. She lives with her cat, Dolly Parton, and she says whenever she gets home and sees Dolly, she says, hey, lady. Camille, thank you so much for your letter. It just brought me so much joy. And hi to Dolly Parton. Hey, lady. And then also, she went to Iceland, and she went to the penis museum, and she said the biggest one there is the sperm whale penis. Here's a picture of her with it.

[Jenna Fischer]

She sent a Polaroid. A tiny Polaroid from the penis museum. That is incredible.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is her and Dolly. Dolly Parton. What a great name for her cat. I thought that was so cute. Anyway, Camille, just thank you for your letter. It just. It brought me joy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I love the reminder that we need to get to this penis museum. We need to make this a real goal. We're very good, Angela. When we get determined and we set a goal, we make it happen. So I think we need to really make this a real goal.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Josh wants to go to Iceland. He keeps bringing it up, and I'm like, babe, I don't know if I can go there without Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Am I coming on your family trip this year? Maybe just for. I'll pop over for one day of your family vacation. Okay, well, I've got another place for us to go as well. We got a letter from Amanda B. In Allentown, Pennsylvania, whose daughter's name is Cece, by the way. And I want to thank you for including your photo of the Titanic museum in Tennessee.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna is now obsessed with this Titanic museum.

[Jenna Fischer]

I looked it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

It looks incredible.

[Angela Kinsey]

Amanda, she really wants to go.

[Jenna Fischer]

I really want to go. It's like this immersive experience where you go on the boat and you learn all about the boat itself, which. Ange, come on. You love a ship.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love a boat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Boats and trains. Sign me up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Boat facts. And then you learn about all the people who were on the boat and they have built a boat. I think they built something that looks like the inside of the grand staircase.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, No, I would love it. I mean, I want to see this Viking ship that they found at the bottom of the ocean and they rebuilt it, and you can go see it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where's that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. I just. I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know that it's somewhere.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know it exists.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's somewhere.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're going to go to it. I've heard about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I read about it. It was interesting to me too. All right, maybe we need to pick a theme for some of our travel. Like, what if we did a year of Ships, and we just went around and, like, looked at ships?

[Angela Kinsey]

Year of ships. Oh, my God, I love it, lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

We could do a year of trains.

[Angela Kinsey]

Year of trains and ships. There is a train ride I really want to go on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which one?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, there's a few. Yeah, I mean, there's one that goes through Scotland that I've always wanted to do.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's the one. That's the first one that comes to mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Also, I believe you're referring to the Oseberg ship.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's in Norway.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you, Sam. Google Norway.

[Jenna Fischer]

Norway seems like a wonderful place to visit.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want to go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Amanda B. If we make it to the Titanic museum in Tennessee, it's because of you. So thank you for writing us.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, next up is the sweetest postcard that I got. It's a Taylor Swift postcard, and it's addressed to Angela Kinsey, head of the PPC podcast queen and fellow Swifty. It cracked me up. It's from Claire, and here's what she had to say. Claire writes Angela, exclamation point. It was so fun getting to meet you at nola. You know, she means New Orleans. You were so incredibly kind and gave me your blue Karma is a cat friendship bracelet. I think I may have blacked out when I met you because I was so excited that I fear I never gave you a bracelet. I made one for you and Jenna as well. I love your podcast and Yalls friendship, praising God that Jenna is cancer free. And I made the pink bracelet for her. The other one matches your podcast cover photo. Wishing you all a blessed rest of your year, Claire.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that is so thoughtful.

[Angela Kinsey]

I met her at the Taylor Swift concert. You know, the ERAS tour in New Orleans. Yes, and look, she did. She sent us bracelets. Isn't this so sweet?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angela, you know, I went to Taylor's very last show in Vancouver with my daughter, and I love the Swifties.

[Angela Kinsey]

The Swifties were great. Isabel and I had the best time. It was just an absolute, like. I mean, just overflowing of, like, joy and love. Positivity, positivity. Here's your bracelet. You know, a few people sent us friendship bracelets. We love them. Sam and Cassie, you got yours as well? Mm. They're great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, as we're finishing up this mailbag, section. I did want to just shout out a few letters that were very meaningful to me personally. Several of you have written me about my cancer journey, but you've written me about your own. And I just. I don't want to share personal details of other people, but I want you to know that I have been reading each and every one. Jasmine, Amanda, thank you for your letters and for sharing with me about your journeys and just all of you, I just want you to know that I'm reading them, and they are really comforting to me. And you all sent me photos as well, and just thank you. And then Angela and I both wanted to just say thank you to Jamie Dee from North Carolina. Jamie, you wrote us a card just talking about, you know, what happened in Asheville.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

After Hurricane Helene hit and that you were part of that community and what that was like for you. And we just want to say that we're so glad that our podcast brought you some relief during that really trying time, which we know is still ongoing. And we're just. We're thinking of you, and we love y'all.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And, you know, we thought we would end this top of show with a fun fan encounter. I love meeting people.

[Jenna Fischer]

We know this about you, Ange.

[Angela Kinsey]

We know if you come up and talk to me, I'm gonna chat your ear off. I hope you're not in a hurry. And I was traveling through Austin, Texas, a few months ago, and I met the nicest lady, and she told me such a sweet story, and I wanted to share it with you all on the podcast. I asked her, I said, hey, can you say it all again and I'll record us? And she was like, okay, so here. This is from my iPhone, Sam. Can you play it? Okay, here I am in Austin, Texas, in the ladies room at the airport, and I just met Jamie. And, Jamie, will you tell everyone what you just told me? I had both my babies listening to your podcast. Office Ladies Babies. That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Like, while she was in labor, she was listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes. And then she was holding her baby as we were talking. And, you know, we weren't, like, in the bathroom stalls. We were, like, in that little entrance part of, you know, that you walk through the little hallway. And then we both exited the bathroom, and our husbands were both outside waiting for us. And her husband was like, hey. Cause I was like, hey, I heard you guys listen to the Office Ladies. He was like, man, we love Office Ladies.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, I've heard of people who watch the Office while they're in labor to distract. But oh my gosh. She listened to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, her baby.

[Jenna Fischer]

Both times.

[Angela Kinsey]

Both times.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my gosh. Well, listen, why don't we take a break and when we come back, I will dive into the fan theory. Is Bob Vance part of the Scranton Mafia?

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait to hear this because then I want to weigh in. I want.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

All right, we are back and are you ready to discuss is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, I am.

[Jenna Fischer]

So When I was going through our digital mailbag, I came across this letter from Megan F. In Omaha, Nebraska who said, I've been thinking about this for years. I am convinced that Bob Vance is either part of the Mafia or a loan shark. Little sprinklings of information throughout the seasons ever since he first appeared has solidified my stance and I would like to know where you ladies as well as Sam and Cassie stand on this take, but didn't stop there. Also got this letter from Tegan B. In Wales, uk who watches the Office with her daughter Bailey. Tegan wrote in after we broke down the Mafia episode and said this hearing, you guys take us through the Mafia episode. I had one question on my mind the whole time. Have you guys heard the Bob Vance mob boss fan theory? I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it, but here is the Reddit link. I would love to hear what you guys think on this one, especially after all the deep diving you guys did about mobs and Scranton during the Mafia episode. Yeah, well I went to this Reddit thread. It was part of the Dunder Mifflin Reddit thread and it listed several reasons why Bob Vance might be in the Mafia and I'm going to go through them. We also got mail from folks with ideas that I didn't see on the thread and I checked those as well. So here's the Bob Vance is actually in the Mafia and just tried to sell himself as a fridge salesman in this documentary so he'd look like a legitimate business in front of the public and the police who may be suspicious of him. And so begins the evidence, starting with a letter we got from Kelly B. In Annapolis, Maryland, who said in Crime Aid, Bob doesn't even blink about bidding $1,000 to hug his wife.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's true, he's got some deep pockets.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Kelly also mentioned this talking head that was added to the Peacock Superfan episode of Branch Closing. Listen to this.

[Angela Kinsey]

My fiance, Bob Vance, he told me he'd give me a job at Vance Refrigeration. I'm called a senior advisor. I don't even have to come into work and I get paid in cash. Now that I say that out loud, it sounds illegal.

[Jenna Fischer]

I want you to know Phyllis smiles at the end of that after she realizes it might be a little illegal. She smirks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why is she smirking?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think she's kind of turned on by this idea that Bob Vance has some sort of operation going where he can pay cash. It might be illegal, but I think she's a little turned on by him breaking the rules. Oh, Phyllis. That's what I took from it. Because you're gonna see in these clips that Phyllis is often throwing around things Bob will do or won't do. Okay, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's like muscle. She brags about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, she sure does. In fact, Kelly B. Points out that Phyllis has a talking head in season six, Happy Hour, where she talks about, like, going out with Bob Vance. And she says, I tend to wear something low cut, get men to flirt with me, and Bob beats them up. And again, they are twisted.

[Angela Kinsey]

They are twisted.

[Jenna Fischer]

There are a number of episodes that reference Bob muscling people.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

For example, when Karen comes to Scranton and she doesn't even know who Bob Vance is, she's like, who? Phyllis tells her, you have a lot to learn about this town, sweetie.

[Angela Kinsey]

He runs the show, girl.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right. And how about this clip from Secret Santa when Phyllis confronts Jim about wanting to be Santa? Well, I'm trying, Phyllis, you're Santa.

[Angela Kinsey]

The only Santa.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what I want.

[Angela Kinsey]

You promised me this. Don't make me get Bob involved.

[Jenna Fischer]

What would Bob do?

[Angela Kinsey]

Never mind. I shouldn't have said that. Hmm. He'd break both your arms, apparently.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Caitlin S. From North Carolina, who's currently living in Hawaii, wrote in to say there's a deleted scene that Angela mentioned in the episode broke, where Phyl, you take away my perks. See you later, alligator. What's that in reference to? It's all sounding like it's in reference to Bob.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And now I've got what I think are maybe my two most damning pieces of evidence that Bob Vance is in the mafia.

[Angela Kinsey]

I've been waiting for one I'm going to see. Is it part of this?

[Jenna Fischer]

Aaron O. From Mesa, Arizona, said, currently watching the superfan episodes on Season 6, Episode 6, Mafia. Can we please talk about Phyllis's statement about the FBI being jealous of Bob Vance's success?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mobsters have a front. Sometimes it's selling insurance, sometimes it's waste management or sanitation. Yeah, a lot of criminals launder money through a legitimate business. I mean, Bob has been accused several times because the FBI is jealous of his success.

[Jenna Fischer]

The FBI has investigated Bob several times for cause. They're jealous of his success.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bob Vance of Vance Refrigeration. They're, like, so jealous.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But now I'm gonna bring you to the web series the Outburst.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, this is the one about the trial, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yep. This is what I've been waiting for.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's hear it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why doesn't everyone just mind their Own business. When you talk so loudly on your phone. You made it everyone's business, Oscar.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I didn't bother you when everybody in the office was talking about Bob's grand ju indictments.

[Angela Kinsey]

So he was exonerated on all counts. None of the witnesses even showed up for the trial. None. That's the one I've been waiting for.

[Jenna Fischer]

There was a grand jury indictment, and then none of the witnesses showed up. Yeah, that's sounding very mafia like to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

They were scared. They didn't want to go up against Bob, the head of the Scranton mafia.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think perhaps the biggest piece of evidence comes from your deep dive, Angela, on the Scranton mafia, which I guess did exist. Does it still? We don't know, but it did. I went back and I re listened to your deep dive from our episode Mafia, and I found something I want to point out. You mention someone named Frank Sheeran. He was a real mobster who was accused of killing Jimmy Hoffa. And he had links to Russell Bufalino, who was a Scranton mobster. So these are real people?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And in the movie the Irishman, we see how these two people met. Now, I don't know if this is true or if this was just part of the movie, but in this movie, Sheeran meets Bufalino when his truck breaks down at a gas station and Sheeran helps him fix the carburetor. Guess what kind of truck the Scranton mobster was driving?

[Angela Kinsey]

A refrigeration truck. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[Jenna Fischer]

He used it to deliver meat. He drove a refrigeration truck? Could it be he was driving a Vance refrigeration truck? Does it go back?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. I guess you can store more than just meat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. Many people pointed out that refrigerated trucks are a great place to hide bodies.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that there's several people sleuthing on this.

[Jenna Fischer]

So many. So many. Here was my sleuth, because I didn't see anyone sleuth this. I wondered if there was any evidence in the episode Phyllis's Wedding, I was like, did she have a mob wedding? Like, would there be evidence in her wedding? So I looked up elements of a mob wedding. Like, how have they been portrayed in other movies and things there? Were there any similarities?

[Angela Kinsey]

There is an over the top wedding cake with a refrigerator on top of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that's on my list.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

In the Godfather, we meet Don Corleone, played by Marlon Brando, at the wedding of his daughter. This is also where we are introduced to the entire Corleone crime family. There's Also a wedding scene in the movie Goodfellas and in Casino. So I watched all of these wedding scenes, and I took notes, and I compared them to Phyllis's wedding. One note. In the Godfather movie, they introduced this idea that a mob boss cannot refuse a request on the day of his daughter's wedding.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is not true. It was made up for the movie.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's kind of like considered a little bit of a scandal because in general, the film was very intentional about trying to stay true to the specifics of the Sicilian Mafia. But this was made up.

[Angela Kinsey]

They missed that one.

[Jenna Fischer]

They did. But here are the things that I observed that were at both a mob wedding and Phyllis's wedding. And I only went with things that all these weddings had in common.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was not a comparison I thought I'd hear today.

[Jenna Fischer]

There it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm very excited about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Very large weddings, all of them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lots of guests.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Big, big wedding, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

But also very large bridal parties. All of these weddings. So many bridesmaids and bridesmaids dresses. Giant cake.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Live music. Maybe with a celebrity singer. Is Kevin a local celebrity? I don't know. Maybe that's a stretch. But live music. There's no DJs at any of these weddings. Lavish. Very lavish. Throwing around your wealth.

[Angela Kinsey]

Large, lavish. You got another L for me?

[Jenna Fischer]

Live music.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, live.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

All the elves.

[Angela Kinsey]

Large. Live music. Lavish.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm. Now, in Goodfellas, the bride sits in a chair, and there's this receiving line of people that walk up and just give her envelopes of cash. That did not happen to Phyllis. That we know of, that we saw in the documentary. But I watched the super Fan of Phyllis wedding. I wanted to see all the footage that was now included in the canon. And I did see this moment, which is in all episodes. This is when Michael is in the receiving line and he gets to Bob Vance, and they have this exchange. Listen to this. Congratulations, Bob.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're a good man. But just know, if you ever lay a finger on Phyllis, I will kill you. If you ever lay a finger on Phyllis, I'll kill you. Agreed.

[Jenna Fischer]

No fingers will be laid on Phyllis. Hmm. He seemed very comfortable making that threat.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, so did Michael.

[Jenna Fischer]

But no, I don't know. If you see. If you see the scene, I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

He'S got a gravity to him when he says it. Bob Vance.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm. So I don't know. What do you think? Do we think that Bob Vance is in the Mafia? Is Vance Refrigeration a front? Is it just a money laundering operation?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, look, I think he's definitely into some shady business. Okay, I say he's into shady business. Sam. I could see the money laundering thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, definitely illegal activity. But I think if he was in the Mafia, Phyllis wouldn't work. I think she would be a mafia wife, a liability. Yeah. And also, I feel like Michael would know, and it would just be bad. He'd have to take out too many Dunder Mifflin employees.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I like what you're saying about Phyllis here. I hear that, like, why do they want to have to file with the irs?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. She wouldn't have her job anymore.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. But he's up to some shady business.

[Jenna Fischer]

It doesn't seem like she needs her job, but she does continue to work. She must like it. I guess. I think she does in some capacity. We should dive into that. In all about Phyllis Lappin.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think she likes her job.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do, too. Well, finally, Bobby Rayshafer did an interview with Cracked.com last December, and they asked him about this. They said the online fandom has some crazy theories about Bob. Some think he's in the Mafia. What do you think? So here is from Bob Vance himself. Bobby Rayshafer said maybe something fell off a truck here or there. Who knows? I never played that, though. So it was never part of his backstory. He was not ever playing this. He was never told to play it or directed to play it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like that. I like. Maybe something fell off the truck every once in a while. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, I think in my neighborhood, there's a business we wonder about.

[Angela Kinsey]

This isn't the building with no windows, because we got to the bottom of that. No, we mom detected of that.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is a chocolate shop.

[Angela Kinsey]

You think it's a front?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's a chocolate and flower shop. And I took my kids and my niece and nephew in there many summers ago. And the chocolate was, like, so expensive. It was like, I've never seen chocolate at this price. And the flowers were. I don't know. I just. We all. We left with no chocolate. I was like, I'm sorry. This is the most expensive, expensive chocolate on earth. They didn't seem sad to lose our business. I was like, what are you selling in here? Because you're not. Who's buying this chocolate?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Okay. So we have a thing like this in our family, too. There's this little, tiny, little mini mall that we drive by on a regular basis. And I don't know if it's because we've been watching Ozark. And so now we're like, everything's up front. Everything's up front.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's a money laundering front.

[Angela Kinsey]

But the businesses in this little mini mall are like some kind of yoga studio and then a hair removal and then a psychic. No one's ever parked in the parking lot, ever. They're constantly doing work to the building. They just put all this tile in the front to make it look like a waterfall. I'm like, that's expensive. Tiny little crystal tiles. I'm like, this is a front. This is a front. No one's going there.

[Jenna Fischer]

This chocolate shop is in a little mini mall as well, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

We talk about it all the time. We never see people going in and out. Yeah, it opens, but for weird times.

[Angela Kinsey]

It never looks opened. You can't park there. And I was like, josh, we need to sign up for, like, one of the yoga classes to see our.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'll go with you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Go get a consult for hair removal or something to see Lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is our next Mom Detectives. I will sign up for a yoga class in that strip mall with you, and I need you to come. Come try to buy some chocolate with me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're going to get to the bottom of it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

This has opened a whole new Mom Detective moment. I wasn't expecting. All right, well, everyone, that is the fan theory is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia. Angela, I'm sure you'll put a poll in stories so you all can weigh in. Why don't we take a break and we'll find out if the office is really. Hello. I can't be the only person who feels like I'm constantly running out to an event, like a dinner or a school function in the same four outfits. Because I basically just have fallen into this pattern of rewearing the same few pieces that I've owned for years. But thanks to Daily look, it's easier than ever to refresh your wardrobe. Get event ready. It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. Dailylook provides you with a dedicated personal stylist. Hello. Thank you. Who curates a box of clothes just for you. Each box is tailored to your body shape, to your preferences, to your lifestyle. Hello. Drawstring pants. And it's delivered right to your door so you can enjoy the ease of trying everything on at home. Thank you. And you save time and effort. Whatever you don't like, you just send it back. There's free shipping included. Plus, you get real personal stylists, not just algorithms, so you get a personalized experience each time. Elevate Your style by signing [e-mail] today. Take your style [e-mail] and get 50% off your first styling feet when you use code officeladies at checkout. Mother's Day is next month, and I don't know about you, but my mom is kind of hard to shop for because I feel like she already has everything she needs. And if you ask her what she wants, she says, I have everything I need.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, my mom never wants anyone to make a fuss about her. She's like, don't. No, no, no. But you know what, Mom? We love you, and we want to make a fuss.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I want to get her something sparkly and special this year. And Macy's is having their diamond sale right now with up to 70% off.

[Angela Kinsey]

70% off is just a huge savings on sparkly items.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, they have Le Vienn, which is one of my favorite brands, so I'm kind of, like, going in that direction.

[Angela Kinsey]

They have a lot of different choices, too. They have Lab grown diamond bracelets, Lab grown bridal diamonds, engagement rings, fine jewelry, diamond studs and pendants.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, dad, I love you, but I think I might be the better person to pick out some nice jewelry for Mom.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe.

[Jenna Fischer]

So shop Macy's diamond sale right now with up to 70% off.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shop in store or online@macy's.com April 8th through the 20th.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, lady. You know that Lee was just shooting his movie in Oklahoma City, and the movie gave him a place to stay because he was there for months.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

But for two of those weeks, me and the kids came out to join him. And the place he was staying in that the movie provided, it was just too small.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're a whole family.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're a whole family. He went on Airbnb, got us the most beautiful, spacious place to stay with the nicest host.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, if you're planning a trip or you're working somewhere and you want to stay at an Airbnb, I think you guys gotta check out their guest favorite because those are the most loved homes on Airbnb.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were a guest favorite. We were in a guest favorite.

[Angela Kinsey]

You scared me.

[Jenna Fischer]

So sorry. It's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're so excited.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, yeah. I mean, you're actually getting a home other people have stayed in, and, you know, it's been well reviewed. Well, listen, we are huge fans of Airbnb for so many reasons. So for your next adventure, consider Airbnb. Welcome back to Office Lady 6.0. And to my fan theory that, well, it's a journey, y'all. It's a journey. It all started when I was Googling the office fan theories. I was a lady who Googled all right as we do. And I came across this article on mentalfloss.com in September of 2022. It was titled 12 Compelling Fan Theories about the Office. And number seven was listed as the office is actually hell. And I was like, what? Come on, that's crazy. Also, I have to ask you a quick question, because when I was growing up, like, hell was like a curse word. I mean, I know it's not anymore. Really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure. I mean, you'd have to say, h e double hockey sticks.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what we said.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

We would say, what in the H e double hockey sticks is going on?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do people still say that? H e double hockey sticks.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't probably think so somewhere, but I'm not sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think somewhere.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think somewhere people are still saying.

[Jenna Fischer]

It or, you know, another one we would do. You'd be like, what the hello is going on?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Jenna Fischer]

You, like, turn it into something else, but you get it in there, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Like saying, shut the front door.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly. See you next Tuesday. That's a real. Oh, oh, oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela. Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

What? I didn't come up with it. My friend's mom said that one time, and we all about fell out of our chairs. Jen, is this your first time hearing that? You know what?

[Jenna Fischer]

I've heard that phrase before, and I am Angela today because I never put it together, and I am one now that I have said that. Just thinking when I'm saying that, that. What I'm saying is that that person is just someone I don't want to see for a long time. I'm gonna see you next Tuesday.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right? Like how I thought the sloppy thing was about leftovers.

[Jenna Fischer]

We've not ever told that story, Angela. And I don't know if you want to go there now or not, but.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't even know if we should. I think we can say this.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a horrible phrase that for years I have thought, mean, you were just really sloppy at something, like maybe, or you used your leftovers anyway. I thought it was like, a food reference.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's not.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not. And I said it one time in front of you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

The phrase is sloppy seconds. And I said, I don't want that person's sloppy seconds.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. Because I don't want their messy leftovers.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I said that to you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you were like, what?

[Angela Kinsey]

And you were so offend, like, taken aback. And I was like, what are you talking about?

[Jenna Fischer]

I said, that is one of the most crass things you've ever said, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I was like, I don't want your leftovers.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then you were so innocent.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then I was horrified.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was spiraled. Because you realized you have said that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think I have. I think I said it one time, like, at a. Like a parent meeting. I think I said, well, no one wants those sloppy seconds. I think that's insane. I'm so embarrassed. I've replayed that parent teacher meeting. I'm like, oh, my gosh. It was like, years ago. And I don't know, maybe I've said it other places.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, there is a chance that I've said, see you. See you next Tuesday. Because it just went on. It just connected for me. The light work.

[Angela Kinsey]

Anyway, we are ladies that don't know phrases.

[Jenna Fischer]

We should maybe Google more.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't want to Google that one that I thought was leftovers ever.

[Jenna Fischer]

Not. Do not. Because it is a very.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't want to talk about it. I'm embarrassed about it. I can't believe I didn't understand what it was.

[Jenna Fischer]

I want to warn people to not Google it if they don't want to be offended. It is a reference that. How can I explain it? It's just without an e. It's bad, and it's a very misogynistic term.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it is not at all about leftover food or being a sloppy person, which is what I thought it was. Yeah, I'm still horrified by that. Okay. Okay. Well, there. We have finally discussed it. It's something that everyone here. For y'all listening, it was maybe like an afternoon where you guys completely lost it. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Where was I? Okay. He Double hockey sticks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Hell is the office.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hell is the office. Let's put it in the terms of how we grew up. Is the office actually H e double hockey sticks? Okay, I know it's out there. It's out there.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, listen, I have had some really boring, monotonous jobs, especially when I was temping. That felt like a form of maybe purgatory.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I was curious. Maybe this fan theory is talking about those places you get stuck in. And maybe Dunder Mifflin is something like that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, okay. I'm hearing it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was curious. This is what the article said in MentalFloss.com. a bunch of people sincerely believe that the Scranton office is hell but that it didn't become a Hellscape until after one key episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

What episode?

[Angela Kinsey]

Lady, I couldn't believe this. Stress Relief.

[Jenna Fischer]

The one where Dwight starts the fire in the office?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Well, here's what the article says. In the first part of Stress Relief, Stanley has a heart attack in the middle of the safety drill.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Stanley survives, and then he has to return to work. The theory says, what if Stanley really died that day? Huh?

[Jenna Fischer]

And then what?

[Angela Kinsey]

So the theory goes, Stanley's heart attack kills him and he goes to the Bad place. And the bad place for him is Dunder Mifflin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that does make me laugh.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

That would be Stanley's hell, wouldn't it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Having to endure working at Dunder Mifflin. He wants to retire so desperately.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, Stanley.

[Angela Kinsey]

He can't wait to get out of there at five o'clock every day.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, all that man wants is a bubble bath and a glass of red wine.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's it. Well, this article made me curious about this theory. I wondered what other Office fans thought, and I dug a little deeper and I think I found what was the original post about it that started it all.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was 10 years ago, way before the Mental Floss article.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And basically, an Office fan kind of came up with this theory because they felt like the show took a nosedive after Stress Relief.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, so this theory is based on the fact that they just didn't like any episodes from that point on?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. They said the show kind of became cartoonish. The characters got more exaggerated and broad and, you know, I think the theory that Dunder Mifflin is Stanley's hell is. That is kind of funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, I can see that. Have you seen that thing on Instagram where people post their personal hell? Like some person is like, my personal hell is having to spend eternity figuring out what's for dinner every night.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's so funny, because that is something that drives Josh crazy. He's always like, what are we having for dinner tonight? Because he's such a planner.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, this did lead me down the rabbit hole. And there are some funny theories about characters on the Office that might be the devil. Oh, for example, Toby. They're like, is Toby the devil? Cause he drives Michael so crazy. Is he Satan?

[Jenna Fischer]

Is Toby.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's the Scranton Strangler. He's the devil. Everybody. He's just Toby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Everyone dumps on Toby.

[Jenna Fischer]

Toby is just Toby. That's what someone wrote in and said.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, there is another one that Michaels Hill might just be Living in the condo with Jan. Oh, like dinner party? Yeah. I mean, you remember this moment. I'm so, so sorry for the temperature in here. The sliding glass door shattered, so.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's actually a really cute story. Do you want to tell it, babe.

[Jenna Fischer]

Or should I tell it?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't like that story. Babe, come on. It's a cute story.

[Jenna Fischer]

Michael ran through the sliding glass door.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because he thought he heard the ice cream truck. Stop it. I mean, I like ice cream, okay? Sue me. Oh, no, don't.

[Jenna Fischer]

I shouldn't say that jokingly because she will sue me.

[Angela Kinsey]

She loves to sue.

[Jenna Fischer]

She loves lawsuits.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, honey, that door was extremely clean, and it looked invisible. You are so right.

[Jenna Fischer]

You are so right. Because. Because before I lived here, the glass was always covered in smudges. And I moved in and I cleaned.

[Angela Kinsey]

It, So I guess that makes me the devil. You are. She is. She is the devil.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm in hell.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm burning. Help me. You shouldn't joke about that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is there more wine in the kitchen? I will get it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I will get it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that Pam's response to all that is that she'd like another glass of wine. Lady. If I had to think what my personal hell is, it might be this dinner party. Truly to imagine as an introvert, where for all of eternity, I have to go to a dinner party that they haven't served me any food after 40 minutes. Cause I'm done socializing now at 40 minutes in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, small talk. No food.

[Jenna Fischer]

So much small talk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cringy, dramatic moment that you have to then sit through.

[Jenna Fischer]

Also, like an obligated dinner party. Not with my actual friends, but like something that I've been obligated to go to and sit through that is going on forever. Yeah. Yeah, that could be mine.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Sam, Cassie, do you have a personal hell moment? Every six months, we have to call our Internet because the Internet bill goes up and we have to pretend that.

[Jenna Fischer]

We'Re leaving and be like, we need.

[Angela Kinsey]

To talk to retention. Retention?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's a department. That's a department. And you act like you're leaving, and then they'll lower your bill back to the rate, but every six months, we have to do it, and it drives me nuts. Why are they raising it every six months? Because it's bad. Internet monopolies being evil. Yes. A retention department.

[Jenna Fischer]

I knew my personality that I would look forward to that call every six months.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna, do you want to do it for us every six months? I mean, maybe you just signed up to talk to the retention department.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hmm.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know, Sam. I would say mine would be permanently trapped on a bad date with someone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Not asking anything about you, just talking at you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah, that's no fun. Oh, Sam, have you had one of those lately? Yes, I have. Oh, no, no. That's a fresh memory. It felt fresh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela, what about you?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, I thought about this when I was researching this fan theory, and mine is so specific. But you know when you're traveling somewhere and you're sort of in a confined space? I don't know, the shuttle to the airport, train, buses, a plane. Just that confined space. One time I was on a bus and there was a woman sitting behind me and it was like a two hour bus ride and she had a water bottle that she kept doing this to. My Gosh, I brought this prop in special so I could do this. She did it for two hours. This sound. And I'm sorry for y'all listening. I thought, I'm gonna lose it. This is horrible. If this ride was any longer, I don't know what I'd do. I might turn around and just grab it and throw it out the window. Please.

[Jenna Fischer]

Your personal hell is so simple and specific.

[Angela Kinsey]

It really is.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's not layered with anything else.

[Angela Kinsey]

No. Do not crunch a water bottle. Or like, if you have a wrapper behind me.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's very. It's like an ASMR thing for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I guess so. But yeah, that would be it for me. That would be my bad place. So that is that fan theory. It did lead me to some other interesting articles. There are several lists of, like, characters that make the worst list.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Meaning they're horrible people.

[Angela Kinsey]

Horrible people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, from the office. Characters.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I guess who they are?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, there's one on screen rant lists the top five baddies of the office and lists reasons why they're so horrible.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. Robert California.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not on the list.

[Jenna Fischer]

What? I've lost. This list has lost all credibility already.

[Angela Kinsey]

Then I won't read the rest of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I am curious, Ryan Howard, is he on the list?

[Angela Kinsey]

Number one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, thankfully, that is happening. Okay, I don't know. Those are the people who come to mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Todd Packer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh, of course. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Todd Packer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, Jan. Jan makes the list.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's so horrible about Jan?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, she made Michael sleep on a bench at the foot of the bed. She made him get a vasectomy multiple times or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, I'm sorry. Fine, fine. I'll give it Gabe. Gabe.

[Angela Kinsey]

He really cringes people out. They are cringe. Creeped out by him. Is cringed out a phrase. Probably not, but remember, he did film Stanley secretly for his movie. And then Oscar's grandmother. Remember, he's filming.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, that's creepy. That's creepy.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then number five. Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dwight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I mean, people think he's a menace. He throws snowballs at you until you're freaked out. He killed Angela's cat. He's always doing these safety drills that put people in harm's way.

[Jenna Fischer]

He did cut off the face of that CPR dog. That's pretty creepy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And that was the beginning of the end for that one Reddit user.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, exactly. Oh, my goodness. Well, all right. Interesting theories.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go. Do we want to do a poll? Do you think Dunder Mifflin is the he double hockey sticks place?

[Jenna Fischer]

We'll find out what you think. But thank you everyone for writing in.

[Angela Kinsey]

All your letters, all your theories, your questions, your comments. We just love you guys. We love hearing from you, lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

Should we end with a key anecdote?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yes. Let's see. All right, here's a Keanu from 2016. Keanu said, People can't be excellent to you unless you're being excellent to yourself.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, Keanu.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Keanu. When you're right, you're right, Keanu.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's true. It's true. You cannot accept love into you if you are not already loving yourself. I mean, it's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I think that's the perfect key anecdote to end this episode on.

[Jenna Fischer]

I agree. Everyone, thank you so much and we'll see you next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bye.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odysee and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Keefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubaco.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dennis Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basel.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. I've been counted out, dismissed, passed over, Told I'd never be a golfer with just one arm. But the only thing that feels better than proving people wrong is out driving them. I'm 14 year old golfer Tommy Morrissey and I want to be remembered for.

[Jenna Fischer]

My ability as a champion partner of the Masters.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America bank of America NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.