Office Ladies Do Game of Thrones

Summary

Office Ladies Do Game of Thrones
Office Ladies Podcast Episode Summary
Release Date: July 23, 2025

---

Introduction

In this special episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey venture beyond their usual recaps of The Office to delve into the intricate world of Game of Thrones. Titled "Office Ladies Do Game of Thrones," the episode offers an in-depth analysis of the series' pilot episode, "Winter is Coming," enriched with exclusive behind-the-scenes anecdotes and personal insights from the hosts.

---

Episode Overview: "Winter is Coming"

Jenna and Angela kick off the discussion by summarizing the key plot points of the pilot episode:

• The Stark Family and Winterfell:
  Angela Kinsey[04:18] provides an overview of Lord Eddard Stark's concerns regarding the deserter from the Night's Watch and the mysterious death of Jon Arryn, the Hand of the King. The introduction of King Robert Baratheon and the Lannister siblings sets the stage for impending conflicts.

• Viserys and Daenerys Targaryen:
  Angela Kinsey[04:59] explains Viserys Targaryen's attempt to secure an alliance with Khal Drogo of the Dothraki through the marriage of his sister, Daenerys, highlighting the political maneuvering essential for reclaiming the Iron Throne.

• Introduction of the White Walkers:
  The hosts discuss the first chilling appearance of the White Walkers, symbolizing the ancient threat looming over Westeros.

Notable Quote:
"Winter is coming." - Stark Family
[21:22]

---

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

• Unaired Pilot Revelation:
  Jenna Fischer[11:12] uncovers the existence of an unaired pilot shot on film, which was later reshot digitally due to initial feedback labeling it "garbage." This overhaul included recasting roles and refining character dynamics, particularly the incestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei Lannister to ensure clarity and impact.

• Sound Design Excellence:
  Angela Kinsey[20:36] and Jenna Fischer[20:36] praise the show's sound design, noting award-winning contributions by sound designers like Andy Kennedy and Paula Fairfield. The intricate audio elements, such as the creation of White Walker sounds, significantly enhance the series' atmospheric tension.

• Costume Innovations:
  Angela Kinsey[38:08] highlights Michelle Clapton's resourceful costume design, mentioning how IKEA rugs were repurposed into luxurious capes. This ingenuity not only streamlined production but also contributed to the show's distinctive aesthetic.

Notable Quote:
"These White Walkers were designed to be more than mindless creatures; they have a purpose and culture."
[23:10]

---

Character Analysis and Development

• Lord Eddard Stark's Leadership:
  The hosts delve into Ned Stark's honorable but rigid demeanor, exemplified in his declaration, "In the name of Robert of the House Baratheon..." as he sentences a deserter to death. This moment underscores Stark's unwavering commitment to duty, which later repercussions in the series.

• Jamie and Cersei Lannister's Relationship:
  Angela and Jenna dissect the complexity of Jamie and Cersei's incestuous relationship, emphasizing its critical role in the overarching narrative and the subsequent tensions it introduces within the royal court.

• Jon Snow's Ambitions:
  Angela Kinsey[69:58] and Jenna Fischer[69:58] explore Jon Snow's desire to join the Night's Watch, driven by a sense of duty and lack of familial support, setting up his internal conflict and the burdens of his bastard status.

Notable Quote:
"Never forget what you are. You’re a Stark of Winterfell." - Tyrion Lannister
[71:24]

---

Plot and Thematic Elements

• Symbolism of the Dire Wolves:
  The introduction of the direwolf pups symbolizes the destiny of the Stark children, with each pup representing an individual Stark offspring, reinforcing the Stark family’s bond with nature and their resilience.

• Political Intrigue and Power Plays:
  The episode lays the groundwork for the intricate political maneuvers that define Game of Thrones, including King Robert’s request for Ned Stark to serve as the new Hand of the King, and the Lannisters' strategies to maintain their power.

• Foreshadowing and Prophecies:
  The recurring motif "Winter is coming" serves as both a literal and metaphorical warning, hinting at the impending threats and the cyclical nature of power and conflict in Westeros.

---

Behind-the-Scenes Trivia

• Casting Choices and Changes:
  The shift from the original pilot involved significant casting changes, including the portrayal of Ned Stark’s wife and Daenerys, ensuring characters' appearances and dynamics aligned with the revamped script.

• Emilia Clarke's Resilience:
  Jenna Fischer[67:56] shares insight into Emilia Clarke's real-life struggles with traumatic brain aneurysms during filming, highlighting her dedication and strength in bringing Daenerys to life.

• Tyrion’s Iconic Look:
  Angela Kinsey[52:36] discusses Peter Dinklage’s evolving hairstyle from the original pilot to the final version, reflecting the character’s multifaceted personality and the show’s attention to detail.

Notable Quote:
"If someone in the Game of Thrones universe calls you little dove, buckle in." - Angela Kinsey
[73:25]

---

Seasonal and Location Highlights

• Filming Locations:
  The pilot episode was shot across various stunning locales in Iceland and Northern Ireland, capturing the cold, harsh landscapes synonymous with the regions beyond the Wall, and the majestic beauty of Winterfell.

• Award-Winning Sound and Design:
  The sound design not only enhances the viewing experience but also wins accolades, contributing to the show's immersive quality and atmospheric depth.

---

Concluding Thoughts

Jenna and Angela wrap up the episode by reflecting on their deep dive into Game of Thrones, expressing both admiration for the show's complexity and concern over its intense and often dark narrative developments. They tease potential future episodes, hinting at exploring other beloved series like Pride and Prejudice, and invite listeners to engage with their content by suggesting topics and watching alongside them.

Notable Quote:
"We have to figure out if I've gotten roped back into the Game of Thrones story." - Jenna Fischer
[91:12]

---

Final Remarks

Office Ladies Do Game of Thrones serves as a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of the Game of Thrones pilot, blending detailed plot analysis with personal anecdotes and exclusive behind-the-scenes information. Whether you're a seasoned fan or new to the series, this episode offers valuable insights and engaging discussions that illuminate the rich tapestry of Westeros.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. “Winter is coming.” - Stark Family
   [21:22]

2. “Never forget what you are. You’re a Stark of Winterfell.” - Tyrion Lannister
   [71:24]

3. “These White Walkers were designed to be more than mindless creatures; they have a purpose and culture.”
   [23:10]

4. “If someone in the Game of Thrones universe calls you little dove, buckle in.”
   [73:25]

5. “We have to figure out if I've gotten roped back into the Game of Thrones story.” - Jenna Fischer
   [91:12]

---

Conclusion

Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey's foray into Game of Thrones exemplifies their expertise in deep character analysis and narrative breakdowns, transferring their The Office camaraderie to another beloved series with finesse. This episode not only entertains but also educates listeners on the underlying intricacies of Game of Thrones, making it a must-listen for fans seeking a richer understanding of the show's origins and development.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

You know how there's Black Friday in the fall?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, at Macy's there's Black Friday in July and this is so great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Tell me more.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can get 40 to 60% off all of your summer essentials. Let me break that down for you. 30% off select clone sets. You want to smell good when you go back to school. Get it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Now listen up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Comforter sets starting at $19.99.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'd like to say you don't have to wait until that Black Friday to get great deals and start getting your holiday gifts. You my mom buys holiday gifts starting in July.

[Angela Kinsey]

Smart people do.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you can get Barbie, Hot Wheels and more. All toys starting at 14.99.

[Angela Kinsey]

You want to get ready for the cool nights. You can get fleece for under $35, shorts for under $30, T shirts for under 20s and leggings for under 15. Those are crazy savings.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, also 50 to 70% off women's shoes. Shop Macy's Black Friday in July from July 23rd through 27th to get 40 to 60% off all your summer essentials.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shop now@macy's.com or in store.

[Jenna Fischer]

Summer is ending. It's time to do some back to school shopping. And you know what that means lady? It means new shoes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It sure does.

[Jenna Fischer]

I always get my kids a new pair of sneakers to start the new school year.

[Angela Kinsey]

Same.

[Jenna Fischer]

And a great place to get some great brands is famous footwear. They have Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance. Well you can order shoes online or you can go into a famous footwear store and they will measure your kids feet so you don't have to like guess at their size.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here's something though I didn't know about famous footwear. What you can actually have same day delivery options powered by doordash.

[Jenna Fischer]

You can.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's say your kid needs a shoe for school. It's like some like thing. You're like oh my goodness, we didn't get it. They have to have this color. Hello.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's say that's gonna happen. I mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well now I know how I'm solving that problem. You don't have to overspend to make it famous right now. Buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear stor.

[Angela Kinsey]

See store associate for details.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends and now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast. Just for your.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will dive deeper into the World of the Office, with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that can only mean one thing. Welcome to a day that I never thought would happen on our podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

I never thought it would happen either. But it is Office Lady 6.0, and really, anything can happen.

[Angela Kinsey]

So brace yourself, because today it's as Jenna titled it, Office Ladies do Game.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of Thrones Just Winter Is Coming. Okay, Just the first episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're not going to go crazy not.

[Jenna Fischer]

Doing all of Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not yet. I'm holding out hope. All right, so here's what's happening today. We are going to be discussing Winter is Coming. It is the first episode in the Game of Thrones series, and for those of you who know the world, you know the series is based on A Song of Ice and Fire, which is a book series by George R.R. martin, and it was written for television by creators David Benioff and D.B. weiss. And this first episode was directed by Tim Van Patten.

[Jenna Fischer]

I would like to point out that Angela came dressed today in a Mother of Dragons T shirt.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hell yeah. And you know, I have owned it for probably a decade. I also bought Josh a shirt that said Winter is Coming. And we might have posed together in both of them holding our kids Nerf swords.

[Jenna Fischer]

You might have.

[Angela Kinsey]

I might have.

[Jenna Fischer]

You definitely did.

[Angela Kinsey]

I definitely did.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Lady, I am actually excited to dive into this with you. I did watch the first two to three seasons of Game of Thrones once in my life, and I enjoyed revisiting this pilot. Why don't we go old school and why don't you give us a summary, lady? Maybe some fast facts.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do it. I know you normally write a summary, but I thought because this is my special show that I would tackle the summary. So here goes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Lord Stark is troubled by news of a deserter from the Night's Watch and the death of his friend Hand of the King, Jon Arryn. Meanwhile, King Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters arrive at the Stark home in Winterfell, where the young Bran Stark climbs a turret and accidentally witnesses a incestuous affair between Jamie and Cersei Lannister, leading to his tragic fall push from Jaime Lannister. And listen, this was a very far fall. I mean, what the f, Jamie. Meanwhile, across the Narrow Sea. That's part of your side.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little sidebar.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is.

[Jenna Fischer]

I like an Angela summary. Has some spice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Has some spice. Meanwhile, across the Narrow Sea, Viserys Targaryen Brokers a marriage deal between his sister Daenerys and Khal Drogo of the Dothraki. He's trying to secure an army to reclaim the Iron Throne. And let's not forget, winter is coming and we witnessed our first White Walker.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's true. I have some questions and maybe I'll pose the first one now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

This Iron Throne that that brother is after.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Viserys.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's not the King of the Lord's place. What's it called?

[Angela Kinsey]

The King of the Lord's Place.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's it called? There's Winterfell, and then there's the House.

[Angela Kinsey]

Of Lord the Red Keep, Westeros. Westeros. King Robert Baratheon.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Where's he live?

[Angela Kinsey]

That's his throne.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, so he is trying to get the throne from Robert. Okay. There's only one throne.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. I was a little bit confused. Yeah, there's one throne, and that's why Robert. It's called Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I thought maybe there were several thrones in play.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, castles have their thrones, but this is the Big Mama Jamaica.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Of Thrones.

[Jenna Fischer]

Got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's why later. We'll get to it. Robert is worried about this Targaryen gal getting married to the Dothraki.

[Jenna Fischer]

I missed that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Missed that.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's not a good sign. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, go on.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do wanna give a cast Shout out. There are 43 cast members in this first episode. They're all phenomenal. It's an amazing group of actors. I'm not gonna list them all. Cause there's 43, and we'd be here. But if anyone wants to know an actor's name. As we're going through this breakdown, I have the full pilot. Should you say Ange, who played that role? I can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Now let's get into some fast facts.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can't wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

Fast fact number one. According to ranker.com, this Game of Thrones pilot that aired on April 17, 2011, is as of January 2025, that's. This year, it is still considered the number one television pilot ranked by fans. Oh, that's kind of amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is really amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Are you curious to hear the top five?

[Jenna Fischer]

I am.

[Angela Kinsey]

Good. Because.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are you going to tell me?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Do you have other thoughts? You paused. You looked off to the side like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I have a personal favorite pilot episode of a show. It's Breaking Bad. Is it on the list?

[Angela Kinsey]

Would you let me do the list, lady?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I'm curious.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I was going to say wait and See if it's on the list. Okay, here are the top five pilots on ranker.com. number one, Game of Thrones. Number two, the Walking Dead. I would agree. That is a very good pilot. I don't even like zombie stuff, but I watched that pilot and I was like, dang, that was good.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Number three, Breaking Bad.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very good pilot. Number four, Lost. I would agree.

[Jenna Fischer]

Really good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really good. Scared the crap out of me. Number five, the Simpsons.

[Jenna Fischer]

Huh? Only one comedy on the list.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So, yes, the pilot performed very well, and the show was a hit. But there was soon to be some online snobbery.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, was it book people versus show people? Cause it was based on a book.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, there's lots of that. There's a very funny meme that's like the people that read the book can't wait to tell you they read the books.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

But the one that got me tickled and cracked me up because I thought it was really spot on, was. And I printed one to show you. And I'll share it in stories. So for all the thousands of people who loved Game of Thrones and they were watching it, in every friend group, there was that one person, and they were so proud of themselves, and they would say, no, I'm not watching it. Yeah, I'm not watching it. And this. Look at this meme. And, you know, each episode came out every week. So this was one of the memes I saw one week. That cracked me up. It said, only one more week until people who don't watch Game of Thrones tell everyone they don't watch Game of Thrones.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's very funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on. That's funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was me.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was you. Okay, moving on to fast fact number two. And I should say, Jenna is going to do fast fact three.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Fast fact number two. I call this Locations and a Trailer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Locations and a trailer.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's got a title. My Fast fact. The Winter is Coming episode was filmed in several locations in Iceland and Northern Ireland, Specifically, Iceland's icy landscapes and dramatic scenery that were used to portray the harsh conditions north of the Wall, where the threat, you know, of the White.

[Jenna Fischer]

Walkers was very snowy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very snowy. And In March of 2011, HBO released the very first trailer for Game of Thrones. And it's pretty long, but I thought we should hear a little snippet of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Get us in the mood.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[C]

I, Eddard of the House Stark.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the north.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sentence you to die. I saw what I saw. I saw The White Walkers.

[C]

You understand why I did it.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was the deserter.

[C]

The man who passes a sentence.

[Jenna Fischer]

Should swing the sword.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is it Trace or the White Walkers?

[Jenna Fischer]

The madman sees what he sees.

[Angela Kinsey]

Fear and blood.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lot of suspense, a lot of great dialogue.

[Angela Kinsey]

Great dialogue. The madman sees what the madman sees. Yeah, and you must have loved that one about the man who makes the sentence has to swing the sword. A sword.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why would. How did you know I liked that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because it's kind of edgy.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is very.

[Angela Kinsey]

The edge. What one man can do, another can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt it for you there. Well, you guys, those are the end of my fast facts. We have a bunch of fun stuff we're gonna sprinkle through. Jenna has fast fact number three, and you guys, it's a doocy. Some real great behind the scenes stuff you're about to share.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I was so impressed with the cast of Game of Thrones that I also went to IMDb to look at the cast list. Like, who are these actors that I know are now famous, but were really a lot of them made famous by this show? And while I was poking around, I saw that there was an episode before Winter Is Coming.

[Angela Kinsey]

The pilot before the pilot.

[Jenna Fischer]

The pilot before the pilot. There is an unaired pilot for Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was shot on film. Winter Is Coming and the rest of the series were all shot on digital, but this original pilot was shot on film like a year before Winter Is Coming came out. I became so curious about it. I was deep diving it and I guess it was not good.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love the quote by their friend that they showed the film to. Did you see the quote, what he said?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I mean, he basically was like, it's garbage. It is a bunch of garbage.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. He said, like, start over.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, exactly. So they did. They rewrote the script and they reshot almost all of it.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they had to recast some people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Two actresses dropped out. They recast the role of Ned Stark's wife and Daenerys. One of the reasons that they had to, like, almost completely reshoot that pilot that didn't air was because they did not recast the kids and they were all like a year older by the time they got around to, like, reshooting and they had to redo it so that they would match. I guess a lot of creative decisions were reworked. For example, they changed the look of the White Walkers and how they acted. Also, the original pilot did not really include the incestuous relationship between the Lannister twins. I guess it Included that they were in a relationship, but it was not clear to people that they were brother and sister. So I don't know if you notice In Winter is coming. Literally, the first line that she says to her brother is, hello, brother. Like, we're gonna make this clear right away this time. I thought that was very funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's also a line, I think, where they're like, that's Cersei's twin, Jaime.

[Jenna Fischer]

They really. They really hammer it home this time. So that final scene is very clear, I guess. There was a book that came out. It's called Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, and it has all kinds of interviews from the cast and crew about this unaired pilot, and I found a lot of more cool tidbits. I'm going to sprinkle them throughout when we break it down. But I just found it all kind of fascinating.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can't believe that, like, HBO gave them the budget to, like, reshoot it. That shows, like, how behind it they were. They were like, you know what? You do not. That does not happen in Hollywood. You do not just get to do over.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do over. Yeah. No, it just also goes to show how much they trusted their friend who they showed it to Craig Mason, when.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was like, yes, Craig Mason, who was in charge of adapting the Last of Us.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have to think he saw Pedro Pascal in Game of Thrones and was like, who's that guy? Someday we have to watch the episode with Pedro Pascal and. Okay, here's my wish list. Before we get into this, after we break this down, somewhere down the road. Doesn't have to be anytime soon. I'll let you have a breather from Game of Thrones. Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want you to watch the episode where we meet Pedro Pascal.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm in. I mean, done.

[Angela Kinsey]

Done. And then I also really want you to watch the Red Wedding, because I think of all the episodes, that was the one where I was like, holy crap sticks. What is happening?

[Jenna Fischer]

Don't, like, a lot of people die in that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I mean, it's not the White Wedding.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. But I do want to say that I know that Pedro Pascal has, like, a horrible, gruesome death in Game of Thrones. I saw an interview about it, and I don't know if I can do that again. Well, he doesn't die in the episode where he's introduced, right? No, of course not. Okay. My heart can't take it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, we'll watch the one where you meet him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where we meet him. And I'll watch this Red Wedding business with You.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, why don't we take a break and then when we come back, we are gonna do Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait. I texted Jenna when I was watching this, and I said, this is so ridiculous that this is my job. I am so happy right now.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're so happy. You've been smiling since I saw you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I know, foreign.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady. If you need to hire someone, that means there's like, a position in your company or in your business that is not being filled, so you probably have extra work to do already. Do you know what you don't also need on top of doing the work of the position you're trying to fill is a bunch of nonsense trying to find the person to fill the position. And this is why you need Indeed.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have no time for nonsense. No, you need. Indeed you do. With sponsored jobs, your posts jump to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com.

[Angela Kinsey]

Officeladies just go to Indeed.com officeladies right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Indeed.com officeladies Terms and conditions apply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hello, everyone. With summer in full swing, you might be getting that familiar urge to refresh your closet, but maybe you don't want to waste money on pieces that you're only going to wear for one season. And that is where Quince comes in.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, quince is my favorite. Oh, and I got all my tennis ladies in on quints now, so I bought this one top. You guys, it's so cute. It's like, like a white kind of linen, and it's got blue stripes. It's so airy because you know, it's hot out. I don't want to be sweaty.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it was not expensive. It looks great with jeans. You can dress it up, you can dress it down.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, my favorite tab on quints is all the housewares. But listen, give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.com officeladies for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com officeladies to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Jenna Fischer]

Quince.com officeladies all right, we are back. And I'd like to bring us into this. Ange, when we watched the Edge together, you were really taken by the wind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you played me a lot of audio of wind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was really taken with the sound design and sound editing on this show.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's fantastic.

[Jenna Fischer]

Absolutely incredible. I asked Sam to grab a clip of the opening one minute of sound.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's hear. Do you hear that? There's a little wind at the end.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just for you, Ange. Yeah, yeah, but you hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's like gates opening.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's clip. Clops of horses.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a giant metal gate. And then they go into this dark tunnel. These three men from the night watches flare. Yeah. Dark icy tunnel. Then they get to another even bigger metal gate that goes up. They come out of that, and you see that that gate is so dwarfed by the size of the giant ice wall that it's built into.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'll have you know the sound designer for this episode was Andy Kennedy. And guess what?

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

He won the Golden Reel Award for best sound editing, short form sound effects and foley and television for Winter is Coming. He was also nominated for an Emmy for Game of Thrones. He left the show in season one, but in general, Game of Thrones was known for its amazing sound design. It won multiple awards starting in season three. Paula Fairfield became sound designer for the show, and she is responsible for creating the cries of the baby dragon from, like, the ground up. She had to, like, figure out what the baby dragons were going to sound like. She and her team were nominated for an Emmy in 2013-2014-2016-2017, and they won an Emmy in 2015 and 2019. And now she's the sound designer for House of Dragon.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, I mean, this is a stellar group of folks.

[Jenna Fischer]

And in the very first minute of the show, I am in, and it's honestly, it's all sound design. I mean, it's like 90% sound design.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's really powerful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Pretty cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you guys, these three Night's Watchmen are now they're beyond the wall and they ride into the snowy forest. There are snow flurries. This is bad. Angela, hot tip. What if you are north of the wall and see snow flurries? Bad sh T is about to happen. Leave immediately.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that the winter that's coming?

[Angela Kinsey]

Winter is the White Walkers. They are one and the same. What? Winter is coming.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, they kept saying it like it had a double meaning.

[Angela Kinsey]

Threat level. Midnight, winter is coming.

[C]

I love that. You're just realizing this in real time right now?

[Jenna Fischer]

I literally just thought winter was coming. Just winter. And the first time I watched the show, I was like, how much longer till winter? Like, how do we not know? It's already snowy. Is winter. Not now.

[C]

Also, that's gonna get annoying. As the show goes on, they reference winter coming for a while, but.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, I know, I know. And I'm like, it's snowing all the time. But winter is what happens in winter.

[Angela Kinsey]

The bad stuff, I guess. So, you know, I mean, for sure, some real hardships coming your way. And if you're north of the wall, real bad. But anyway, Angela, hot tip. You see snow flurries, get the heck out of there. All right, all right. Now, the men, they're deeper in the haunted forest. They're trying to investigate these reports of missing wildlings. Wildlings are sort of the people that live beyond the wall. They're kind of a ragtag group of folks, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Like peasants kind of.

[Angela Kinsey]

Eh, Like, I mean, forest people. Eh? How would you describe wildlings, Sam?

[C]

Yeah, they're feral.

[Jenna Fischer]

Feral, yeah. Got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're wildlings. They're wild in the world.

[Jenna Fischer]

Got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

So one of our night watchmen, he sort of sees some smoke coming out of what looks like a camp area, and he gets on the ground and he crawls to it, and guess what? He is surrounded by snow flurries. Mistake. Do not go there.

[Jenna Fischer]

But he does.

[Angela Kinsey]

He does.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he discovers a bunch of corpses arranged in a kind of spiral pattern in the snow. Yeah, I have a fun fact about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

This was a change from the book. The writers of the series added the idea that the corpses would be arranged in the pattern in the script. They called it a witchy mandala. And it was designed to send the message that the white Walkers were not mindless creatures. They wanted them to be, like, established as beings that had a culture, had a purpose. They thought it would make them scarier.

[Angela Kinsey]

It does.

[Jenna Fischer]

It does.

[Angela Kinsey]

It makes them scarier. Well, the night's watchman who discovered this, his name is William, he is freaked out. He runs back to his other two friends, and he's like, hey, there are corpses everywhere. We, you know, this is craziness. We gotta get out of here.

[Jenna Fischer]

But he says he wants to run away. Why doesn't he want to run back to the wall? Why not? That wall seems super safe. Is it because if he goes back to the wall, they're gonna make him go out again and, like, fight whatever's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Happening that I don't know. The other guy is like, no, we should go to the wall and tell everyone, that's me.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm him. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

But then at 4 minutes and 9 seconds, there's this other night's watchman with kind of short, dark hair. Anyone else think he looks like Matt Damon?

[C]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Also, the answer to your question, Jenna, would be yes, they would make him go fight as a member of the Night's Watch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, but wait a sec. Can we get back to Matt Damon for one second?

[C]

I apologize.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. This is.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sorry that throughout this breakdown, you and Sam are gonna have to explain the show to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

I hope it's that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't mind. I just went down a rabbit hole. That is the question. Is Matt Damon in Game of Thrones last night? I was not the only one that thought this. Okay, look at this. I did a side by side of the night's watchman. He was playing the character Waymar Royce, and in real life, his name is Rob Ostler. Look at this. Side by side.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is. There is a whole Reddit thread of, like, is Matt Damon in Game of Thrones? This was like a.

[Jenna Fischer]

This guy. Has he ever doubled for Matt Damon? Like, has he ever played Matt Damon's brother in a movie?

[Angela Kinsey]

Not that I could find. He's done a bunch of series on BBC1. Look at that, Sam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, that's pretty spot on.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, come on, have Rob Osler.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Matt Damon ever been seen in the same room together? Is it possible that Rob Osler is Matt Damon? He's, like, Matt Damon's British counterpart. Or how about this? Rob, tired of being pigeonholed into, like, serious dramatic British work, took on the alter ego Matt Damon so that he could become, like, an action star in the Bourne Identity. But first he had to write Good Will Hunting with Ben Affleck. Wow, that's some real dedication.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is the long game con. Here's what's gonna happen.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

When I meet Matt Damon.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I met him one time. Remember he took wine off our table at the SAG Awards?

[Jenna Fischer]

I do remember.

[Angela Kinsey]

But if I ever see him again, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna yell, Rob.

[Jenna Fischer]

And see what he does.

[Angela Kinsey]

See if he turns around.

[Jenna Fischer]

See if he turns around. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Anyway.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, that guy, not Matt Damon, wants to go and see what's up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's like, no, bad idea guy.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're going back, and Will is like, to where all the corpses are. Are you crazy?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Guess what? They go back and they're all gone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. There's not even a footprint in the snow.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's because they've all been made into white walker zombies.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. That's what happens after a white walker kills you and dismembers you. Then you get put back together into a zombie.

[C]

Are you just realizing this right now, Jenna?

[Jenna Fischer]

No, no, no, no. This I knew, because I will say, here is my comment on the opening of this show. I wrote down. This show literally opens like a horror movie. I mean, this could be the opening of any horror film. Dismembered bodies arranged in a pattern in the snow. And then the girl that was impaled on the tree is now alive and chasing a guy. And then the white walker beheads a guy. This is literally a zombie movie. So, like, literally the opening of dawn of the Dead, I mean, it's like the same thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's total zombies, but yeah. So the white walker, you know, once he kills you, then he can make you into a white walker minion. Your eyes turn bright blue.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

But they do have a weakness.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's not clear to me yet.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not clear yet.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

It will be revealed. So anyway, the white Walkers, they kill two of the Night's watchmen, the Matt Damon guy and the other one who just wanted to go back to the wall.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Return to the wall and not Matt Damon get killed. And Will is just runs on.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's, like, running for his life.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And then now we have the opening credits.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I do have a little got trivia for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's got. Oh, Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sam, it's going to be a long day that's got.

[C]

Shut this down. This show's done. Wrap it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

We haven't even got to the opening scene. Okay, here is my g. My brain.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was not made for these shows. My brain cannot follow these. I don't want to throw a question.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm going to throw a question out there for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm too logical.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right. Anyway. Got trivia ready?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Get this. The White Walkers had their own language, according to an interview with David J. Peterson. We've talked about him before on the podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's the person who created Dothraki.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. He created several languages for Game of Thrones, and he had a white Walker language that was gonna be called Scroth. I'm quoting David J. Peterson here. He says it was actually going to be for the very first scene of the show where the white walker comes out and cuts the guy's head off. There are parts where you hear them kind of grumble and vocalize. But ultimately, Scroth was scrapped because according to Peterson, I think ultimately they decided they didn't want them to actually say stuff and even subtitle it. That might have been a little corny. Honestly, for the opening scene of the.

[Jenna Fischer]

Show, I like this idea that they just, like zombies do sort of telepathically communicate or just kind of like operate in a different fashion than with language.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, this article went on to say for season two, the sound designer created an ice cracking sound that finally sort of brought this Scroth idea to life. It's what you would hear kind of right before you would see them or when they were around. So it's kind of like a language, but without any verbalization.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, next up, we are going to go to my favorite place in Game of Thrones, and it is Winterfell. And the home of the Stark family.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

From my previous viewing, I remember just loving the Stark family, Loving Winterfell. I thought, this is where I'd like to live. It seems pretty great.

[Angela Kinsey]

A lot of this was shot in Ireland. You love Ireland. You've been there.

[Jenna Fischer]

This makes sense.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we open on that same deserter, Will. He is running over a big green hill and closing in behind him are soldiers. And then we see in the horizon, Winterfell.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. The boys are practicing their bow and arrow shooting, and the girls are practicing their sewing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sansa's really good aria is not. You're gonna see your very first classic aria, side eye.

[Jenna Fischer]

Also, the hairdos on these girls would make Angela Martin swoon.

[Angela Kinsey]

So many braids, real elaborate.

[Jenna Fischer]

Especially Aria, who, by the way, would rather be doing the bow and arrow. We learned very soon that, like, she's pretty good with it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, she's really good.

[Jenna Fischer]

Much better than her brother.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I do have to point out, speaking of hair, an older man is going to approach the Stark family. Buckle in for some serious facial hair alert. Okay, It's Sir Roderick Castle. He is the master at arms at Winterfell. But he has these long white lamb chops like that go down the side of his cheeks, and then they meet underneath his chin and he braids them into, like, a little ponytail. It's so crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have a whole hair breakdown coming up. Oh, wow. I became a little bit obsessed with the hair on the show, and I went on IMDb looking at all the people who did the hair on the show, and there's like a dozen people whose job was crowd hair. Yeah, there were so many people who worked on this show. The crew was humongous.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have for later a little bit that would piggyback off of that for the costume department.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we're gonna learn about the deserter. Lord Stark is notified about it, so he's like, all right, I gotta go, you know, chop his head off for deserting. And he wants his sons, even his youngest, Bran. And Caitlin's like, he's 10. He's 10. He doesn't need to witness this. And Ned's like, he won't be a boy forever. And winter is coming.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not actual cold winter.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just bad stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep. And he needs to be ready.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do wanna point out we have a super kaduper stare down. Caitlin is gonna peer over at Jon Snow and.

[Jenna Fischer]

I saw it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. She does what I'm calling the, quote, nose flare glare. Yeah, she flares her nose at him.

[Jenna Fischer]

She doesn't like him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Doesn't like him at all.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so we're gonna be out in just the hills and there's a little spot where you can get beheaded. This is clearly their beheading spot.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's like a tree that's got a divot in it. We have our very first long name title speech. That's a classic Game of Thrones moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep. I know. You love them.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love them. So I'm gonna recite it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Lord Stark, as he's about to swing the sword, says, in the name of Robert of the House Baratheon, first of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, I, Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the north, sentence you to die.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's a lot. You have to learn. That's a lot of. You gotta get that. You gotta get that right.

[Jenna Fischer]

As an actor, that's as hard as medical jargon, I think.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also just as Lord Stark.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, what if he fumbled that right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Before he beheaded the deserter?

[Angela Kinsey]

That would be kind of a wah wah.

[Jenna Fischer]

It really would. How often does he have to say that? Like, does he have to open every meeting with that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, that's a mouthful. It is.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, he does it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He cuts off the guy's head.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Bran watches it. The little 10 year old, he sees it. I had questions at this point, like, what do they do with the guy's body and the guy's head? They've come so far to do the beheading. How do they dispose of the body? The tree stump thing it looked clean when they got there. Is that someone's job?

[Angela Kinsey]

It had some red. It didn't have.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm not gonna get in the weeds about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did have a moment of curiosity. That's all I'm saying.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like where your brain goes. It's very sort of like chores list. Who's chore. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who has to now deal with the chopped up guy. Cause someone does.

[Angela Kinsey]

Someone does. And I'm telling you right now, if they're smart, they'd burn them. Spoiler.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, this guy. This guy that was just beheaded.

[Angela Kinsey]

Will, all dead people should be burned. Oh, Sam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, they should.

[Angela Kinsey]

All of the dead should be burned.

[C]

It's true. Oh, all of them.

[Angela Kinsey]

All of them.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Anyway, well, they're making their way back to Winterfell and they come across a giant dead animal. I'll have you know that animal, that stag, I guess it was real. It was not a fakie dead animal. It had been dead for about two days and it was decomposing. And they talk. All the actors talk about. It was really smelly.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what?

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, I read the dad to all the Lannisters, Tywin Lannister, I don't know is. He's not. But I read that he had to gut a deer, like prep a deer for an episode in a scene. He really did it. They gave him a dead deer that he one practiced on and then one he did it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why? Unnecessary. You know what I just saw on Instagram that I was like, oh, my God, we have to ask for this. You know how we always talk about, like, when you have to eat steak or something like that in a scene and it just fills you up and it's like, hard to do take after take after take of eating steak. But, like, what if there was a scene where you had to eat steak? This prop guy figured out a way to make a big hunk of watermelon look like a steak by putting on like.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like balsamic or something smoky.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, like a. I can't remember what he used. I think he used, like, liquid smoke on top of it. And then he, like, painted it with a little bit of, like, edible food coloring that was brown. It looked like a steak. And then when you cut into it, the inside it just looked really rare. I was like, oh, my God, that's genius. And I bet that guy could have made a real convincing fake deer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you know, probably.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a lot of watermelon.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm not saying he made it out of watermelon. I'm just saying, like, if you can make a piece of watermelon look like steak, you could make a fakie deer to cut up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Anyway, we do see, though now also a dead wolf, and it's got an antler, like, through its neck.

[Jenna Fischer]

A dire wolf.

[Angela Kinsey]

So the dire wolf and the deer, they kind of tussled, I guess so. And neither of them made it. But what we find are six little pups.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ned wants to have them killed. Ned's like, kill em.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ned's like, hey, they're not gonna survive without their mother. And then Bran really wants one. And Jon Snow was like, you know what? They're the symbol of your house, you know, and they were here for a reason. And there's five of them, one for each of your children. They should each have one. And then Ned gives a very dad speech where he's like, you will clean up after it. You will take care of it. If it dies, you will bury it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I wrote it down. What I wrote down was, has anyone written Ned Stark's Book of Parenting? Like, is there a parody book? Because so far he has laid down the following wisdom. The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

You will train them yourselves. You will feed them yourselves. If they die, you will bury them yourselves. I have a feeling, like, there's gotta be, like, some stocking stuffer. Ned Stark Book of Parenting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I also like when he says, a madman sees what a madman sees. That's just kind of like, look, it is what it is.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are you gonna do?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's why. I mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. No, I like it. Well, there is an extra pup. At first, we only see five, but there is a sixth one. It's the runt. And Jon Snow is gonna get the runt.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Because he's not a real Stark.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're learning he's not a Stark.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not a full fledged Stark. I do have a costume. Fun fact.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, what is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

This is from a Great article on MentalFloss.com. you might have noticed in these wintry scenes, these guys are all wearing these gigantic coats, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Game of Thrones owns much of the credit for its character's iconic looks to costume designer Michelle Clapton. And she would oversee a team of anywhere from 70 to 100 customers each season because they had to have all of these costumes for so many actors.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

But.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they're not like, shopping for those either. That's like you're creating this, Creating sewing.

[Angela Kinsey]

So listen to this.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

This is so creative. Clapton revealed that several of the show's luxurious looking capes and coats were made from IKEA rugs. She said we'd take anything we can. We'd cut, we'd shave them. Then we'd add, like, a strong leather strap. And following this share of hers, IKEA created a set of instructions for how to turn one of their rugs into a cape.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is brilliant.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it so much. I have a wolf pup. Fun fact.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so you know each of the Stark kids are going to get a wolf and Sansa names her wolf Lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady was played by a pup named Zuni from Malik. Northern Inuit dogs. Sophie Turner, who plays Sansa, adopted Lady as her own pet when the first season wrapped.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I thought that was so cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

You already knew that. Everybody already knew that.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, it's not. It's not. It's. Listen, I was just a fan of the show, so I was like, everyone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Knows Sophie Turner has her wolves. Not everyone does.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, they don't, Sam. Did you know that?

[C]

I did not know that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey. There you go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I guess after season one, all live animals were replaced by cgi. And I guess dead animals were replaced by real dead animals, per your fun fact about the deer. Yeah, but live animals became CGI after season one.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's good.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can take us into this next thing because we're now at King's Landing. That's the land I was trying to think of earlier. Capital of the Seven Kingdoms. And Jon Arryn, the previous Hand of the King, has died. Hand of the King was very clear to me. It's the king's sidekick. Kind of sounds like the person who does all the work while the king is, like, drinking and having fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. It's his, like, counselor person.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. We see a shot of Jon Arryn and he's dead. And he has rocks on his eyes. And the rocks have eyes painted on them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I became curious. I know this show is made up, but it seems to be a type of medieval alternate reality. I wondered if this was based on anything.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I know in, like, old Westerns, they would put coins on the people's eyes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Do you know why?

[Angela Kinsey]

So the eyelids don't roll back and open.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I guess your eyeballs, like, deflate and then your eyelids can pop open. So you can put a coin or a sword stone on the eyelid to keep them closed so it doesn't freak people out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Or they sew them shut for, like, wakes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, nowadays they put, like, fakie eyeballs.

[Angela Kinsey]

In so their eyes are open?

[Jenna Fischer]

No, no, no. So they stay shut. It's like, I believe, a fakie eyeball. That's what it said. Modern undertakers put fake eyeballs in place. It makes the facial contours look correct, per the website I read.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, now we're gonna meet Jaime and Cersei Lannister. They're the twins. The minute I saw these two, I knew they were gonna hook up. And then as soon as I heard they were brother and sister, I was even more sure they were gonna hook up. Like, I just knew it.

[Angela Kinsey]

We should say the Lannisters have a very distinctive look. They're all very blonde, very blue eyed. And the Starks kind of all have brown hair. You know, there are these patterns in how these different groups look.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. Well, the hottie brother and sister, they're both super good looking as well. They're gonna talk about the death of Jon Arryn.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. Cersei thinks Jaime should be Hand of the King.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but he does not want that responsibility. Their days are too long and their lives are too short. Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know that's some foreshadowing, but you know what?

[Jenna Fischer]

He says he doesn't want the job, but then later he's gonna like, get in this pissing contest with Ned Stark, who, I mean, is gonna get offered the job. And now he's like, his feathers are ruffled. But you just said you don't want it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, like, settle down, Jamie.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. Pick a lane. Right, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do you want?

[Angela Kinsey]

What do you want besides your sister? Well, now we're gonna see a raven and it's flying towards Winterfell. It comes with a message. Catelyn Stark is going to make her way through this muddy courtyard to the very iconic Game of Thrones piece of scenery.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is it the tree with the red leaves? It's so pretty. I wrote it down. I said the production design is so pretty. Here.

[Angela Kinsey]

So it's a tree with a white bark. It's got these very red leaves, red SAP. It's often found in the Godswoods is what it's called. That's the forested area within the castle walls. And many of these trees have faces carved into their trunks and they're considered sacred by the followers of the old gods.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Well, it's beautiful. I was very impressed. So are you telling me that, like, many important conversations are gonna happen at this tree or trees like it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're sacred and they kind of in some ways are like all knowing. And.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this is where Caitlyn is gonna tell Ned about the Hand of the King dying. And this guy was like a father to Ned. We're gonna learn. He is crushed. She also says, you know what's coming next.

[Angela Kinsey]

The Raven had more news.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

The king and queen and their whole entourage are on their way to Winterfell.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what that means?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

They are gonna want you to be the next Hand. Caitlyn's like, you can always say no.

[Angela Kinsey]

She really wants him to say no.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, she's gonna make that clear.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now we're inside the Winterfell castle. There's lots and lots of hubbub. Cause they're getting ready.

[Jenna Fischer]

The king is coming.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. There's food prep in the Great hall. And we learn that Lord Tyrion's chamber is going to need a lot of candles because he likes to stay up late reading. And Master Luwin says, I heard he drinks all night.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. This is the other sibling to the hottie brother and sister who are getting it on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And Caitlin says, how much could he possibly drink, a man of his stature?

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is foreshadowing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Foreshadowing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, also, now the Stark boys are going to get shaves and haircuts in preparation.

[Angela Kinsey]

So prerequisite for this scene is everyone had to be shirtless. Yes, I noticed everybody has their shirt off. Calm down, hbo.

[Jenna Fischer]

Don't get me started.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

On the number of breasts we're gonna see in this Lots of Boobs episode. It's literally the Benny Hill of drama. So many boobs. But, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just love the Benny Hill reference.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, that's what I thought of. I was like, what is this? Remember that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I. Of course I remember.

[Jenna Fischer]

We all remember it from our childhood.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a comedy show, but there was lots of boobs.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was on tv. It was on tv.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a comedy sketch show. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then just boobs. Topless women.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. The boys obviously didn't need to, like, shower or anything before their haircuts because they also are kind of, like, sweaty and dirty and shirtless. I noticed the writers think that this shaving scene is, quote, the worst scene we've ever written and probably the most embarrassing.

[Angela Kinsey]

That includes the pilot. Before the pilot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, they said that the only reason it was there was because there were a few snippets that they did use from the original show, and their beards weren't gonna match. So this was designed to create continuity between, like, their shaggy beards before and then their, like, non shaggy beards after.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, this was, like, a forced.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was.

[Angela Kinsey]

And HBO was like, make them topless.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess so. So, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, everyone is sort of like, watching the entourage of the king and queen make its way. Bran has scaled up the castle walls. He's watching. I mean, this kid can climb.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's, like, way up high. And his mom catches him and is like, hey, no more climbing. Foreshadowing at 25 minutes, 35 seconds, as everyone is riding in with their red flags and the lion symbol, that's the symbol of the Lannisters. We see Prince Joffrey for the first time. And one of my favorite characters from the series, the Hound.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's the Hound?

[Angela Kinsey]

The Hound is the younger brother of Ser Gregar, AKA the Mountain. The Hound is the personal guard of Prince Joffrey. The Mountain protects the queen. Anyway, they're not really featured in this episode. But, lady, as someone is a fan of the series, this is the Hound. You're seeing the Hound. And then when the Stark family lines up, 25 minutes, 58 seconds for the first time ever. And he doesn't have a single word in this episode. And you only see him here. It's Hodor.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, Hodor. I wondered when we were gonna see Hodor.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hodor's right there.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have a spoiler. Oh, about this moment, because what's gonna happen is the king is gonna arrive. He comes in sort of last. He gets off his horse. He walks over to Ned. He's like, you've gotten fat. And then Ned kind of looks at him like someone else, and they laugh and they hug and, oh, look, they're old friends. And then the king goes and he, like, greets all the Starks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's the thing. I guess that when Robert greets the Starks, he hugs Ned, he hugs Catelyn, he ruffles Rickon's hair, and he shakes hands with Robb. He does not touch Bran, Sansa, Arya, or Jon Stark. Here's the thing. All four of the Starks that Robert makes physical contact with die violently in future seasons, and the four that he doesn't touch survive. This strange coincidence became a popular theory that Robert has the touch of death.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Sam.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do you think of that coincidence?

[C]

Jenna, I need you to watch every episode. I need this to continue for years.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it that you need to continue?

[C]

There's just so many horrible, heinous things.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm, like, replaying all the things.

[C]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, she doesn't even know about Reek yet.

[C]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

Poor Reek. Poor Reek.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, I know Jon Snow dies, and I know he Gets revived. I know, because there were, like, articles about it where people were freaking out, pissed off.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, now, pretty quickly, King Robert is gonna say to Lord Stark, I want, you know, take me to your crypt. I need to pay my respects. Circe is like, hey, we've been writing for a month, my love. Surely the dead can wait. Robert's like, nope. Cersei is pissed. She's embarrassed. She's not happy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we're going to find out why.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I thought he wanted to pay his respects to, like, the men who had fallen in his service.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no. It's always about a woman.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He had the hots for Ned Stark's sister, who's buried down below. But wait, first I need to go back to Queen Cersei getting out of the Chariot. Because all I could think about was, oh, my God, I would be so queasy. And she is so sour. She looks like she could throw up. Truly. And it's no doubt that she is so cranky. But also, did you know that Lena Headley was pregnant while filming this episode?

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And so that's why in so many of her scenes, she's either, like, wrapped in furs or, like, sitting down or, like, the opening, she's totally you. In Dinner Party. Like, in the opening scene when she's like, hello, brother. She's, like, leaning forward. And that was so, like, her robe would, like, cover up her belly. And then at the end when they're getting it on, originally she was gonna be naked. She couldn't be naked. Cause she was so obviously pregnant, so they had her clothed. And then I guess that started the trend where whenever Cersei has sex, she's always clothed. She's, like, the one person we don't see nude in the series, apparently.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, I have to imagine, much like Paul Feig, Tim Van Patten had to sort of figure out, how do we have a sex scene and not see the belly? Which is what you had to do with Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Where do we put him to block it all?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so now we're gonna go down to the crypt.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And Robert is paying his respects to Ned's sister. He was clearly in love with her. He says to Ned, we were meant to rule together. If your sister had lived, we would have been bound by blood. And he's like, you know what, though? It's not too late. I have a son, you have a daughter. Let's join our houses.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is also when he says, I want you to be the new Hand of the King.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like, he just says it. And I mean, how can you say no to that? This guy just rode for 30 days to personally ask you. He came with his whole family.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, this is a lot of pressure.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he says, I need you.

[Jenna Fischer]

They're old friends.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, they're old friends.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did you think that these two guys looked slightly different in this scene compared to the rest of the episode?

[Angela Kinsey]

Tell me why.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is one of two full scenes that were left over from the original pilot. It was also shot on film, so it looks a little different.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

And the next scene coming up, this is the other scene that survived from the original pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it's Tyrion Lannister, and he's, you know, he's with a lady and getting serviced by the lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

He is.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Jamie bursts in and says, look, our sister is requesting your attention.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. This is when I got real interested in everyone's hair, this scene. Yeah. When I saw Peter Dinklage's hair.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

His blonde hair. They have clearly dyed all of the actors hair. Cause Lena Headley as well was like, kind of known for being a brunette. Right. And now she's a wig. Clearly wearing a wig.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cause the Lannisters are blonde, so they tried to make Petyr a blonde.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I really felt like Peter Dinklage's hair in this scene had a hint of Ryan during Michael Scott Paper Company.

[Angela Kinsey]

It had a little hint of like early 90s sun in by the swimming pool.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I guess, like I said, this scene was from the original pilot and this was their first take on his hair. I guess in the book, Tyrion's hair is described as so blonde it seemed white. This is a wig.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

So for the pilot, Peter Dinklage wore a wig, but by the final version, they changed it to look more natural. And you can see his hair change throughout the pilot. You can tell when it was wig and when it was different wig, no wig. Mm. Speaking of hair, because they became so obsessed, Joffrey also had a different haircut in the original pilot. It was more of a page boy cut. It was kind of like Henry viii. They decided that this more modern cut in the version that aired gave him a type of spitefulness without making him look so dorky.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hmm, I see it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And finally, before we leave this scene, I need to give an actor shout out to the woman who plays the sex worker with Tyrion. She was played by Esme Bianco, and she's gonna go on to be a recurring character. I remember her from the first time I watched the series because I thought she was so good. And I found this quote from her. She said, I was originally cast and my name was the Redheaded Whore. I didn't have a name at that point and I was only meant to do this one scene. And they ended up loving her so much that she became a recurring character and they named her Ra's.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's in the series for a long time.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember her.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, well, basically, I guess Cersei wants Tyrion and Jaime to keep her company. Cause they hate the Starks and they don't want to sit through this long meal with them. And then Jaime, I guess, gets three more girls for Tyrion. I don't know what's happening here.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's like, I know you. We're gonna get this all over at once.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So just have like four ladies at one time. And then please come to dinner and.

[Angela Kinsey]

Make it to dinner.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we're back in the crypt now and Robert is just still talking about Ned's sister and just like saying, why did you have to bury her in a place like this? She needs to be on a hilltop somewhere with sun and clouds. And Robert says, you know, in my dreams, I kill him every night.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who's him? Who's he talking about? He kills. Who is this? Who killed Ned's sister?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, is that who he wants to kill? I can't answer any of this, Sam. I can't answer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Or you can?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no. Because we have pouring out hope. Here's the thing, though, okay? Ned says, it's done, you, Grace. The Targaryens are gone. And then Robert says, not all of them. Dun, dun, dun.

[Jenna Fischer]

And now we're gonna meet some.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're gonna go across the Narrow Sea to Pentos.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're gonna meet Denarius. Why do you say it like that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Pentos, just a made up place.

[Angela Kinsey]

This whole. Have you never watched anything that is like, written like a movie? It's all fiction.

[C]

Everything is made up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Everything is made up, is made up. I mean, but it's Dunder Mifflin. Oh, sure, that's name.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know, but paper companies are real. Scranton, Pennsylvania is real. The jobs we're doing are actual jobs.

[C]

There were kings and queens, I guess.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's just so many names to remember in places and lands and relationships. It's like the fact that I was watching this pilot and I was following along with an outline that Ainsley made for me and I still was like, wait, who's that? Like, I had a literal. Like, it was Literally printed on a sheet of paper for me, and I can't hold it in my brain.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is learning a whole new world. Isn't that what happens when you read a book? Don't you learn a whole new world?

[C]

Yeah, but she just watched Lord of the Rings, so I'm sure her tank is pretty full of names and places.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Gosh, she's tapped out. She's tapped out. Well, anyway, I have a little trivia about this scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, all of that is to say I was enjoy. I enjoy this pilot. I think it's a good show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, I do have a little bit of. Got trivia.

[Jenna Fischer]

Game of Thrones trivia. I'm keeping up.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, apparently in the books, the Targaryens had silver hair and violet eyes. And during shooting, Daenerys and Viserys originally wore violet contact lenses.

[Jenna Fischer]

I read that.

[Angela Kinsey]

But the writers decided they impacted the actor's ability to portray emotion, so they were like, nope, smart. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's what I am learning when I meet this guy Viserys. Yeah, so we've got another brother sister relationship with weird sexual undertones. And more than that, though, if you are a man with blonde hair in the Game of Thrones, in that universe, your character is very likely to be a creeper. Almost all the blond men are total creepers.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, I'll track it in my rewatch. Well, he's a super creeper. He needs her to be perfect because he's going to be presenting her today to Khal Drago, who's very important in the Dothraki. He wants this union to go well because he wants his army so he can go and get his throne back. Have a little foreshadowing. Denarius is going to get into a bathtub, and they're like, no, no, no, it's too hot. She doesn't even feel a thing. She just gets right in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I read that, like, later. She's gonna, like, walk the fire or something. I don't know. She can be hot is what we know. Well, listen, in the next scene, we are gonna meet this Khal Drago person.

[Angela Kinsey]

Khal Drago.

[Jenna Fischer]

Karl Drago.

[Angela Kinsey]

No r. Sorry. Call. Call.

[Jenna Fischer]

Say it again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Carl. His name is not Carl.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm trying. I am really trying.

[Angela Kinsey]

By the way, you are?

[Jenna Fischer]

Carl Drogo.

[Angela Kinsey]

Khal Drogo, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're going to meet him, but why don't we take a break, and I will learn the names and then we will be back to finish breaking down Game of Thrones as a young adult. Finding the right path to your future can feel overwhelming.

[Angela Kinsey]

It starts with Year Up United's tuition free job training program, Career Pathways.

[Jenna Fischer]

If you're without a bachelor's degree but have a high school diploma or ged, you can get Skills first training to succeed in the industries you're passionate about, all while earning a weekly educational stipend to offset basic expenses.

[Angela Kinsey]

From there, you'll have access to internships and hands on experiences with Fortune 500 companies. And with Year Up United's job placement services and personalized coaching and mentorship, you can put your knowledge, skills, skills and most importantly, confidence into practice.

[Jenna Fischer]

Apply to Europe United today and take the first step toward achieving the career you want. Visit europe.org to learn more.

[Angela Kinsey]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, did you know that workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health, with 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress?

[Angela Kinsey]

I did not know that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we can't just say goodbye to these things, you know, we can't just say goodbye to work. But you can start a focus on wellness.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And that focus on wellness can come in many forms. It can be for me taking a walk.

[Jenna Fischer]

You could reach out to a therapist on BetterHelp. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. They've served over 5 million people globally.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's convenient too. You can join a session with the therapist at the click of a button.

[Jenna Fischer]

And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with BetterHelp, our listeners.

[Angela Kinsey]

Get 10% off their first month at.

[Jenna Fischer]

Betterhelp.Com officeladies that's betterhelph e lp.com officeladies having people in your corner to help you makes all the difference. And with State Farm, you can feel good knowing that whether you need coverage for your car, your home, or even boats, motorcycles and RVs, you can choose the right amount of coverage for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

With State Farm, an agent can help you along the way. And if things get complicated and you have questions, you've got options too. Go [e-mail] or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. You know this is going to age me a little bit here, but when I got my first car, my dad got me State Farm car insurance and there was no online and there was no award winning app and I have to think my dad would be so happy that that was more Streamlined now, because it really is so helpful, especially the app. It's right on your phone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Talk to your agent to help you choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to help protect the things you value most. File a claim right on the State Farm mobile app.

[Angela Kinsey]

Reach a real person when you need to talk to someone, like a good neighbor. State Farm is there, we are back, and Daenerys is waiting for Khal Drago. I guess Dothraki are notoriously late. They run a little behind.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who's this helper guy? Who's this guy who's, like, in his ear? The guy who he introduces the brother and sister to call?

[Angela Kinsey]

He just works for them. I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, I got an audio clip because, Angela, he does the, like, the name and the house thing, and I know how much you like it, so let's listen.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think you really like it, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm starting to like it. I want to write my own for myself.

[Angela Kinsey]

May I present my honored guests, Viserys.

[C]

Of House Targaryen, the third of his.

[Angela Kinsey]

Name, the rightful King the of King.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of the Andals and the First Men.

[Angela Kinsey]

And his sister, Daenerys of House Targaryen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, the house thing. It's a big thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wrote one for you. Do you remember?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't. You did?

[Angela Kinsey]

I did, lady, for your birthday one year, I posted on Office Lady's Pod and I wrote my version of your Game of Thrones title.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna of House Fisher, the First of Her Name, the Summary Master, Queen of the Fast Facts, Protector of the Chucket, Lady Regent of Wiffle Ball, Maker of Bread, Stringer of Cheese, Commander of the Hockey Moms, Keeper of Sunny Cat, and Mother of Podcasting. I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so great.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I wrote. I wrote one for myself.

[Jenna Fischer]

You did?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where's that one?

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's see. It's because I walk through my house and I pick up all the cups and bowls. I'm that person.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

We have three kids. There's cups and bowls and all kinds of things. And I just walk.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am familiar.

[Angela Kinsey]

I pick them up. So I had my daughter take a picture of me on one of these errands.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Of picking up cups and bowls. And then I wrote this for myself. Cups. Kinsey of House Clutter, first of Her Name, Keeper of the Mess, Protector of the bowls and Cups left behind, Mother of stacking items, and Queen of making only one trip to retrieve everything.

[Jenna Fischer]

These are great, Ang.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I love them.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I don't know if you know this, but Screen Rant did A breakdown of what houses, different office characters might come from.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I didn't know this, so I only pulled the ones that made sense based on having just watched the pilot, because they listed a lot of houses that didn't make sense to me. But they said that both Jim Halpert and Michael Scott were House Stark. Oh, do you agree with that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Jim Halpert?

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, here's what they said about Jim. They said, quote, sure, sometimes Jim will goof off from time to time and pull elaborate pranks on his coworkers, but at the end of the day, he is the character that the majority of people at Dunder Mifflin look up to. He has a big heart and he will do pretty much anything for the people he loves most. He'll make some mistakes along the way, but he's only human, just like the people of House Stark. And for Michael, they said, quote, he is no stranger to slipping up and making cringe worthy mistakes, just like the characters in House Stark. Yet, like the Stark family, whenever the chips are down, they get right back up. They also said Michael Scott is the heart and soul of the series. And for that reason, he seems like a good fit for House Stark.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, he does pull a lot of shenanigans that could have ended him up in the Night's Watch, I will say that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, the Night's Watch is a punishment?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. I thought you like, volunteered. I mean, Jon Snow is going to be like, I'm going. I want to volunteer. I thought it was like a, like a monastery kind of thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

He doesn't have anywhere to go, kind of because he's not a Stark, so he won't have titles or land.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are we gonna find out who his mom is? It's a big mystery right now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Eventually.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I guess when the writers were interviewing to do this job, they met with George R.R. martin and he kind of gave them like a test. He was like, who do you think Jon Snow's mother is? And they made their guess and he liked it. I don't know. Maybe he had a secret idea all along. Oh, and they made the right guess? I don't know. This is what I read online.

[Jenna Fischer]

Very interesting. Who do you think this article said belongs to the House Lannister?

[Angela Kinsey]

Angela.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[C]

Ryan.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ryan and Kelly.

[C]

Ah, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

They said that the Lannisters are all about keeping up with appearances and they're obsessed with their image. Okay, so there you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go. Well, I do have a costume catch in this scene. Daenerys has on this sort of very sheer dress. It's see through.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not hiding much. But holding the dress up on her shoulders are these elaborate silver sort of like brooches.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they have three dragons. They do foreshadowing. Three dragon heads make up the brooch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Interesting. Well, Kahl is gonna ride up on his horse, basically. He's just like testosterone on a horse.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. He's played by Jason Momoa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. He has a long braid.

[Angela Kinsey]

Long braid and lots of eyeliner.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when, I guess in their world, if they are, like, defeated in a battle, they have to cut their hair.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Cut their ponytail. And his is really long. He's never been defeated.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's never been cut.

[Angela Kinsey]

Nope. Never been cut.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And he kind of looks at Daenerys and then he rides away.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Viserys is like, well, what happened? Where's he going? And he learns that, like, listen, he must have liked her because, trust me, if he didn't, we'd know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And Daenerys is like, ugh, I don't want to get married to this guy. I just want to go home. And he's like. Viserys is like, sister, how? Where's home? We have no home. That's the whole point. And then he's so mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

I said, this is what I'm calling a major a hole alert.

[Jenna Fischer]

For sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's like, I'd let the whole tribe have their way with you. All 40,000 men. Their horses too, if that's what it takes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

There is gonna be a really good revenge scene for her with him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I think I remember it. It's in the first couple seasons.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was satisfying. Emilia Clarke, who plays Daenerys, she just leaps off the screen. She is so great.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

And she doesn't have a ton of dialogue and she just emotes. She's so good. Did you know, though, I was googling about her, did you know that she suffered two traumatic brain aneurysms during the filming of Game of Thrones?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Holy. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

She was, like, carrying around this, like, secret medical issue.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Very scary. Life threatening.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is what's happening. I'm like, not only am I getting caught up on the plot of Game of Thrones, I'm getting caught up on the private lives of all the people who starred in this show.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. It's a lot of life that happened that's like the Office. Like, people ask us about an episode and we're like, oh, well, this was also happening in my Life at the time.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, now we're back at Winterfell.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sansa's getting ready for dinner. She wants to know, do you think Joffrey's gonna find her attractive? She really wants to marry him.

[Angela Kinsey]

She does. She's like, says to her mom, I want to be queen. Please, please make Father say yes to taking this job as Hand of the King. It's the only thing I've ever wanted.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Sansa. Oh, Sansa. If we could go back in time and have a conversation with Sansa right there.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I saw Joffrey for, like, four seconds on his horse, and I know he's a total dick. Well, like every other Lana cigar.

[Angela Kinsey]

It gets so much worse.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I know. I saw. I watched.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no. It's so much worse than you can get. Forget Joffrey. Insert absolute human walking nightmare.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. Oh. All right, well, we're gonna go to dinner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cersei has to sit there and watch her husband, like, fill up.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess just, like, one of the bar wenches or something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not a waitress. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she's just, like. She's over it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. She's so sour.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's super sour. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

She is the Angela Martin of Game of Thrones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very sour. Jon Snow is outside. He's not even in the hall. He's practicing his sword skills, and his uncle comes up. It's Uncle Benjen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. So I just wanna say I'm really proud that I followed this scene. Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why?

[Jenna Fischer]

So tell me if I got it right. Ned's brother Benjen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is part of the Night Watch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, but you just told me that you had to be, like, banished to that. But he seems like he is, like, wears this with honor. Did he do something wrong?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. Sam, do you know? What did Benjen do? How did he end up on the Night's Watch?

[C]

I don't remember, actually.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, anyway.

[Angela Kinsey]

You want me to look that up?

[Jenna Fischer]

No, it's not important. I'm just really proud that I know that he works for the Night Watch. Jon Snow wants to work for the Night Watch? Benjen says, don't do it. You can't have a family. Jon Snow says, it doesn't matter. I don't have a family anyway. And then he goes inside, and then.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, wait. But we also find out why Jon Snow isn't in the party.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he's not really.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, Caitlyn doesn't want. She's so tacky. Oh, it's Caitlyn Caitlyn. See, I thought I got this scene. You've got so many components of it. But no, Caitlyn doesn't want him around. That's another reason he wants to go to the Night's Watch. Cause he's like, caitlin has it out for me also.

[C]

I just looked it up. Benjen just signed up and joined the Night's Watch.

[Jenna Fischer]

You can also just sign up.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can also sign up. My understanding of it is for some people, it's like a calling, a calling of service.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Jon Snow is feeling the calling, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

But he also doesn't have a lot of options.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he has, you know, Catelyn, who hates him, and he's not going to inherit any land or titles or anything.

[Jenna Fischer]

Benjen's going to go into the party, and then out of the shadows comes Tyrion. And he says, never forget what you are. You're a bastard.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wear it like armor so it can't be used against you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And then he has that just heartbreaking line.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Because Jon's like, what would you know about it?

[Jenna Fischer]

And he says, all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, when you meet his dad, they are gonna have a real rocky relationship.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. All right, well, Benjen's gonna go say hi to his brother Ned. And guess what? Benjen knew the guy that Ned beheaded earlier.

[Angela Kinsey]

He said he was a good guy, a true Ranger. So now we've got talk of White Walkers. We have dire wolves south of the Wall. Winter is coming, y'. All.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why does no one believe that he saw the White Walkers? Like, why?

[Angela Kinsey]

Because.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why do we just not believe him?

[Angela Kinsey]

Ned says they haven't been around for a thousand years, so if they're gonna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Come back, someone has to be the first one to see them.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're not gonna be believed at first. I'm telling you, that's how it works.

[Jenna Fischer]

So the first report of the White Walkers is gonna get dismissed?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

How many more are gonna get dismissed?

[Angela Kinsey]

Who knows? I mean, are there really aliens? I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

People have said they've seen them.

[C]

Sam, Honestly. Yeah, that tracks.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm really loving, like, having Sam here so I can. Because he's just such my Game of Thrones buddy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, Sansa, Sansa, Sansa. So sorry. Everybody's gonna hate me after this podcast. I can't get anyone's name.

[C]

You're making such a valiant effort.

[Jenna Fischer]

You are.

[Angela Kinsey]

And there's going to be so many people that are going to be like, jenna, I'm with You? I. I don't know. Being with Ron.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, no. I don't know. You just told me. Sansa.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sansa. It's. What's interesting to me is that you go a little bit into your fake voice you do for your cats, like your cat Andi. So you go, sansa, Sansa. Like, it's just Sansa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God. Sansa says, oh, my God. I made my dress. I met it all by myself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, I have an Angela hot tip here.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Cersei is going to say, hello, little dove, but you are a beauty. How old are you? Angela hot tip. If someone in the Game of Thrones universe calls you little dove, buckle in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sh.

[Angela Kinsey]

T is about to go down.

[Jenna Fischer]

Really?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. It's going to get real.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, she's 13. She hasn't had her period yet. That's a personal question. But then she wants to know if she made her own dress and she's like, I did. And she's like, you should make me one sometime. But it's all, like, very like, I'm scared. I'm scared of the queen.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have another Angela hot tip. What if Cersei pretends to be nice to you? Run. Yeah, this is some mean girls BS Remember in Mean Girls when she was like, oh, where's your necklace from? It's so fetch. Or whatever.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, that means she hates it. She thinks it's horrible.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

She didn't like her dress. Sansa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I have an interesting fact that I read that I thought you might find interesting, Angela, which is that while most married women in the series take on their husband's last name, like Catelyn and Lysa Tully, who took the names Stark and Arryn, respectively. Cersei.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cersei.

[Jenna Fischer]

Cersei Lannister, who is married to King Barathan, did not.

[Angela Kinsey]

Baratheon.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jesus.

[C]

I'm watching Jenna shut down in real time. Her body's shutting down.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just say it like Andy. You're closer to the mark. Okay, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm just going to call them how I know them. The queen, who is our last name is Lannister, did not take her husband's last name. And the reason is that the name of the house that currently holds the Iron Throne can only be inherited through birth. It is not given through marriage. So, Sansa.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sansa.

[Jenna Fischer]

If Sansa marries Joffrey, she would still be Sansa Stark, but her child would be a Lannister. Right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

When Joffrey becomes king, which is gonna happen really soon. I saw it. This king is, like, not Long for the world. Neither is Ned Stark, by the way.

[Angela Kinsey]

And neither is Joffrey, by the way.

[Jenna Fischer]

Joffrey lasts a little longer.

[Angela Kinsey]

A little bit longer. All right, now we have the weird Jamie Ned Dick pissing contest.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I didn't get it. I didn't get it. Why?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's the Queen's brother. That's all he wants to. To be is literally in the Queen. He doesn't want to be Hand to the King. Is it that he wants to be king?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what he wants.

[Angela Kinsey]

They just. Yeah, the Lannisters, they just want a lot. Okay, so whatever. The dinner ends. Ned and Cat are in bed now and he tells her that he belongs up north with her, not down in the Capitol. And then they are interrupted.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

There has been a raven. There is a letter. Wait for it. 48 minutes, 43 seconds. Our very first wax seal.

[Jenna Fischer]

We have a wax seal.

[Angela Kinsey]

We have a wax seal.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's been spotted.

[Angela Kinsey]

Caitlin opens the letter and all the color drains out of her face.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was sent from the Eyrie. That's where her and her sister are from. And I guess her sister has fled the Capitol and gone back home because she says Jon Arryn, who was. Her husband, was murdered by the Lannisters. And she says King Baratheon is now in danger.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So Kat takes the letter. I loved it. She goes over, she burns it right away. Oh, I wish we could still do that today. Just, you know, you get a piece of information. Like, I know we delete emails. Or you can delete a text.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not the same.

[Jenna Fischer]

Throw it in an actual fire. You know what I would like on my phone? I would like a button that's like a tiny fireplace so that when I delete an email, it's like I'm throwing it in a fire. Wouldn't that be fun? I bet you would delete a lot more emails if you threw it in a fire, lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Or if there was some sound effect.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like if I got a satisfaction.

[Jenna Fischer]

We could make a lot of money with this idea. I'm just saying. And we could even like maybe like try to link it to Game of Thrones. It could be the got fire. And that's where like, you throw all the stuff you don't want.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe it's just a dragon that burns your shit up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. Dragon fire.

[Angela Kinsey]

Dragon fire.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that's if you really want to burn it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why wouldn't you really want to burn it? Guess I'm Getting rid of stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess if you burn it in a firewall.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't want to half ass burn it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, here's what I wrote. I wrote this. Wait, I literally wrote.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Cat's sister was the wife of the Hand of the King.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jon Arryn's wife.

[Jenna Fischer]

Cat's sister's husband was like a father to Cat's husband, Ned. So Ned's brother in law was like a father to him. Right, the sisters, that means their brothers in laws. Ned's sister was the King's special love.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who are the Lannisters and how did they infiltrate this whole system? That's what I wrote down.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think the Lannisters, they just have always had a ton of money.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. And money came with the marriages. So probably when he married her, he got some money. 49 minutes and 37 seconds. There are lots of fakey scars on Ned Stark's chest. And I really like the scarlet detail like of his battle scars. I thought it was cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I like it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Shout out to the battle scars.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shout out to the battle scars. We do find out in this scene as well that it is impacted on Ned, that the King is in danger. This is his childhood friend and there really is no one he can trust. And he does need Ned. And now Ned feels the calling to go protect his friend and his king.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but I mean, who are we kidding? He was never gonna say no. He couldn't say no.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. He was trying to think about it. He was trying to figure out a way to say no.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like he was just putting off the inevitable to have like one last good night with Kat before he had to be like, babe, they were maybe gonna get it on if they weren't interrupted by the raven.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe so. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, or maybe they already had. Maybe they already had.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I think he was.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a nice night.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was stringing along. Yeah. You didn't want to give the bad news and then kill the mood.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, now we're going to go to a Dothraki wedding, which was really something.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's like people are dancing, fighting, making out, having sex, all just in one big area.

[Jenna Fischer]

I wrote my thoughts first. I made a list of their wedding gifts because. What's her name? Daenerys and Call. Call are sitting there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. They're sort of receiving people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And here's what they got. They got a silver bowl filled with something. They got a chest of snakes. They are just sitting there. They're not talking. They're watching these gifts Go by. I wrote, I'm worried she's getting a sunburn on her shoulders. Then I wrote, a fight breaks out because two men want to do a humping dance with the same woman. It's true. It turns into a full on sword fight with sickle swords. And one of the men gets his guts spilled out and dies. Oh, and then kind of beheaded. Everyone loves the violence because, quote, a Dothraki wedding without at least three deaths is considered a dull affair.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I also want to point out that Denarius is also given a chest with three dragon eggs. Yeah, they've turned to stone, but they're always going to be beautiful, so she's happy about that.

[Jenna Fischer]

But wait, before she gets the dragon's eggs, some dude walks up and gives her some books. He gives her the songs and histories from the seven Kingdoms. And I wrote, do I sense some chemistry? He's blonde, but I don't think he's a creeper is what I wrote.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, that's Jorah Mormont. And he ends up being like a counselor to her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they have their hills and valleys, but he's a dear friend to her and cares for her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, then I wrote, and now here come the eggs. The dragon eggs. I remember these. This is gonna be her storyline for the next two years. These eggs and these dragons. These dragons to her are like these foster kittens that I have.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

They're all over her all the time. She's constantly taking care of them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. She is the mother of dragons.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what she becomes.

[Jenna Fischer]

But then I wrote this. Where do they keep all this stuff? Because they're like a traveling society.

[Angela Kinsey]

Society.

[Jenna Fischer]

They're nomad. Right. So like a good portion of their caravan is just all their crap.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like all these wedding gifts, they've just got a cart.

[Angela Kinsey]

A cart they have to pull around. Do have to say one thing while we're talking about dragons, which is, Sam, have you watched House of Dragon?

[C]

I have, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good.

[C]

It's really good.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love it so much. It's a prequel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, I wondered from this wedding scene, when this guy gets his head sliced open in the fight, I wondered how many prosthetic heads this show has made. There are so many beheadings. Yeah, I couldn't find out that answer. But the Washington Post did do an article called, quote, an Illustrated guide to all 6,887 deaths in game of Thrones. They break it down by season. Deadliest locations and deadliest weapons. Can you guess the deadliest location?

[Angela Kinsey]

King's Landing.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's not.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not the Red Keep at the end.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's Winterfell. Winterfell has a total of 3,709 deaths over the series. King's Landing only has 1,357.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really? That's what, like Khaleesi does at the end is only 1000. Hmm.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what it said. Do you know what the deadliest weapon is?

[C]

Broadsword.

[Jenna Fischer]

Nope. The Blade is third, with 801 deaths.

[Angela Kinsey]

A dragon. Yes, a dragon.

[Jenna Fischer]

An animal. An animal. More people are killed by an animal. It's 1,756 deaths by animal, followed by 1,244 by magic. They also have a category for the deadliest killers. This one got me excited. This one. This stat might keep me watching. Drogon came in number one. I don't know why it's spelled that way. Is that a thing? The Drogon.

[Angela Kinsey]

Drogon.

[Jenna Fischer]

Drogon. They had a picture of a dragon. Is Drogon a special dragon?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Very big.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Drogon came in number one as the deadliest killer with 1,426 kills. Do you know who got number two? What character is the deadliest killer after Drogon?

[C]

The Hound.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

The Mountain?

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[C]

Ramsay Bolton.

[Jenna Fischer]

1,278 kills.

[C]

Khaleesi?

[Jenna Fischer]

Nope.

[Angela Kinsey]

Smoke guy?

[Jenna Fischer]

They say it's Arya Stark.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh. Oh. Well, she was with the man of Many Faces for a while. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So that got me excited. I was like, I'll watch that gal.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I know why. I know why. Aria.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of course. I thought she had, like, a whole list of shit. That's what I'm trying.

[C]

I'm trying to point out stuff to you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't see you. Cause of reflection. Yeah. Oh, of course, Aria. Duh. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you know the deadliest season? In season one, there are only 59 deaths.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was gonna say winter, but I guess season three.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, season eight, with 4,000, 548 deaths. There you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here's what's gonna happen now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Kahl is done.

[Angela Kinsey]

Khal is done. And I guess his gift to Daenerys is this very beautiful white horse that he puts her on. And they're gonna ride off. Viserys says, make him happy. I'm like, shut up, Viserys.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I noticed. This is gonna be kind of the first time when we see Emilia Clarke and Jason Momoa standing next to each other when he presents her with this horse. I looked it up. She is five foot two. Jason Momoa is six foot four. Angela Kinsey is five foot one and Rainn Wilson is six foot two. So it's an almost exact height difference by just one inch. They've got one inch on you guys. But then I tried to Google to see if she had to stand on a lot of boxes when she was filming this. I couldn't get a straight answer. But if you ever meet her, it might be something you guys talk about.

[Angela Kinsey]

I now wanna rewatch and just think about how often they would have Rainnn Wilson seated and me standing in a scene. Cause that way they could get us both in frame.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I wonder if Kahl is seated a lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's see.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ooh, let's see. Does that mean you're gonna watch more? Hehehe.

[Jenna Fischer]

I might. I'm sort of reinvested.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. It's the wedding night.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wedding night on a cliff on some rocks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's not even a bed.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's. It's not.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's nothing cozy and intimate about this.

[Jenna Fischer]

I want to tell you. I was really rooting for Call to be like this sensitive and attentive lover. I wanted him to go against type, you know, I just think it would have been a cool twist. Instead, he is not sensitive and he rapes her on these rocks. I looked this up and in the book he's very gentle and it's what I wanted. He waits until Daenerys warms up to him. She consents by putting his hand between her thighs. She enjoys the sex. And that in the unseen pilot of the show, they went with a scene that was more like the one in the book. But when asked about changing it for Winter is coming, George R.R. martin said, ultimately you would have to ask the showrunners because it wasn't his idea. But it has been speculated that given the forced nature of the wedding and Daenerys young age, that modern audiences would not have accepted the sex as consensual and they chose to depict it as forced. Clark believed that the rape and Viserys abuse were instrumental in building up empathy for her character and for her eventual. I believe she has a comeuppance.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't know that it was written differently. And there is a storyline where she sort of tells him, like, this is not how we're going to do this.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like. I remember that. I feel like there's this moment where she is like, I believe this can be pleasurable for both of us.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Am I remembering this right?

[Angela Kinsey]

You are.

[Jenna Fischer]

You are. And they start like becoming like lovers and they Fall in. Loves him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I thought so. Yeah. And so there is this scene where she's kind of learned from her ladies of court, if you will, in the Dothraki, she has women that sort of tend to her, and she's like, I don't know anything about sex. This is all I know. There's gotta be more.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And so he comes to her one night and literally, she just stops him and is like, no, we're not doing it this way anymore. And then it's like, they.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's on.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's on. They're really invested in each other, and he kind of learns that, like, oh, maybe I didn't know this is how you could be with someone, you know, kind of thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember watching it the first time and being, like, slightly conflicted about that whole storyline. I was like, this feels like, very.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, they could have just started that way.

[Jenna Fischer]

They could have just started.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like the against type thing of, like, that's what. He seems gruff on the exterior, but now this is his wife and he's gonna take care of her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, well, we're not done with disturbing sexual encounters.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly. Okay, well, wait, before we get there, we do have a scene between Ned and the king, and they're about to go hunting, and King Robert just says, thank you. Thank you for being my Hand of the King and that. He says, you are my last loyal friend. So, yeah, now we're up in the tower. Yeah, we're up in the tower. Bran is scaling the wall once again. He's climbing up to the very top wall. And he looks in and what does he see?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep. Jaime and Cersei, they are getting it on.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're getting it on. They both look up and see him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he's doing a horrible job of peeping. How long did he need to watch that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. He's, like, caught. He's busted. And Jamie grabs him and has him, like, by the shirt. And he's kind of half hanging out the window.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Jaime's gonna just tell him, like, hey, get out of here. Jaime's not going to hurt him. But then Cersei, over and over is like, he saw. He saw. And she's basically saying to him, he cannot have witnessed this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do we think this is why they killed Jon Arryn, too? Is because Jon Arryn was onto them? Because they sort of allude to that. They're like, what if he told?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, no, for sure. Jon Arryn found out for sure, I think.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so. So many people have to die to Keep this secret.

[Angela Kinsey]

Secret? Yeah. Well, Jaime, like, shoves him out the window, and you don't know what happens to Bran. And then he sort of casually turns to Cersei and say, ugh, the things we do for love.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that's the end of the episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that's the end of the episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's it.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's it. That was so fun. And thank you for watching it, Jenna. I think maybe now I owe you one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm. Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what? Will you all write in and say, what should I pick for Angela to watch?

[Angela Kinsey]

Now, be nice, y'.

[Jenna Fischer]

All. I don't know. I mean, you already watched the Edge for me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So that's all I could ever really ask for. I feel satisfied. I do.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have so many things I want you to watch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, maybe I'll have to watch another one of yours.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I really can't believe you haven't seen Pride and Prejudice.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I need that to happen in my life.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of course. Well, I have to decide now if I've gotten roped back into the Game of Thrones story, which I. I don't know. I just know what's gonna happen, which is that all of these terrible people are gonna keep doing terrible things, and they're gonna kill all the people I like, and I just know if I can go down that road again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, when you put it that way. All right, well, you guys write in. Let us know if there's something you want me to watch, and maybe, Jenna, we can take a break from Game of Thrones. I'm not going to give up on it with you. And maybe we watch Pride and Prejudice.

[Jenna Fischer]

I would be up for that.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, well, listen, everyone, thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

For tuning in to Office Lady's. Do Game of Thrones. Next time, we might do Pride and Prejudice. See you then.

[Angela Kinsey]

Have a good one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our exception executive producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubaco.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dennis Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.