Peacock Superfan: Boys and Girls with Director Dennie Gordon

Summary

Office Ladies Episode Summary: "Peacock Superfan: Boys and Girls with Director Denny Gordon"

Release Date: May 21, 2025

In this special episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey delve deep into the beloved Season 2 episode "Boys and Girls" of The Office. Joined by guest director Denny Gordon, the trio offers an enriching exploration of the episode’s creation, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and the nuances that make it a fan favorite. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key topics, memorable quotes, and insightful reflections.

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1. Introduction to the Episode and Guest

The episode kicks off with Jenna and Angela expressing their excitement about revisiting "Boys and Girls" with Director Denny Gordon, who holds a special place in their hearts as one of the few female directors on The Office.

Jenna Fischer [02:39]: "We have a really special episode today. We're revisiting 'Boys and Girls' with a very special guest."

Denny Gordon [04:13]: "So fun."

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2. Origin of "Boys and Girls"

Jenna and Angela recount how they pitched the idea for the episode to Greg Daniels, the showrunner. Standing by the copier between reception and accounting, they suggested a storyline centered around corporate seminars for women and men in the workplace, leading to Jan and Michael organizing their own events.

Angela Kinsey [03:04]: "We pitched to Greg one day... we had an idea for an episode about women in corporate America."

Jenna Fischer [03:36]: "BJ was like, okay, okay," indicating the immediate enthusiasm from the writing team.

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3. Denny Gordon’s Role and Experience

Denny shares her journey to directing The Office, highlighting her background in drama and her pivotal meeting with Greg Daniels. She emphasizes the importance of capturing the documentary-style authenticity that The Office is renowned for.

Denny Gordon [14:39]: "When Greg started talking about keeping the documentary feel, it was amazing. It required a very lively camera and spontaneous moments."

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4. Exploring the Superfan Extended Cut

The conversation shifts to the Superfan version of "Boys and Girls," which extends the original 21-minute broadcast to over 31 minutes. Denny explains how additional scenes enhance character development and narrative depth.

Denny Gordon [06:12]: "The extra footage really adds to the story, enriching it beyond the original cut."

Jenna Fischer [16:34]: "The Superfan episode starts with a new cold open... more of Michael versus technology."

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5. Memorable Scenes and Directing Insights

Jenna and Angela highlight specific scenes from the Superfan episode, such as Michael’s comedic struggle with his new flip phone and the heightened conflict between Jim and Roy. Denny provides behind-the-scenes insights into directing these moments, including the challenges of shooting physical comedy and maintaining continuity.

Angela Kinsey [18:25]: "Michael's banging against the glass... it added depth to his character's frustration."

Denny Gordon [22:40]: "We got the box-on-a-shelf stunt in one take, which was crucial for maintaining the episode's pacing."

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6. Character Arcs and Emotional Depth

The trio discusses the emotional arcs within the episode, particularly Pam’s internal struggle with her career aspirations and Jim’s support contrasting with Roy’s disapproval. They reflect on how the extended scenes amplify these storylines, making them more relatable and poignant.

Jenna Fischer [27:00]: "Pam's decision not to pursue the special design program... it adds a dramatic arc that resonates deeply."

Denny Gordon [27:57]: "The audience could see the relatability in Pam giving up her dreams without a supportive partner."

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7. Directing Techniques and Storytelling

Denny delves into her directing philosophy, emphasizing preparation and the importance of capturing spontaneous moments. She shares anecdotes about working with actors like Steve Carell, whose improvisational skills added unexpected layers to scenes.

Denny Gordon [38:31]: "Directing talking heads was a revelation. You have to act the journalist and think on your feet to bring out something new."

Denny Gordon [39:48]: "Steve's improvisation was mesmerizing, keeping the dialogue fresh and engaging."

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8. Personal Reflections and Team Dynamics

Jenna, Angela, and Denny reflect on the enduring friendships forged on the set of The Office. They share heartfelt memories, emphasizing the collaborative spirit fostered by Greg Daniels and the mutual respect among cast and crew.

Angela Kinsey [58:29]: "Our text thread, the Office Peeps, means so much to us. 'Office, family forever,' says BJ, and we truly are."

Denny Gordon [61:54]: "Every director needs improv chops, especially on a show like this. It’s a high-wire act that’s also incredibly fun."

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9. Favorite Moments and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with each participant sharing their favorite moments from the Superfan version of "Boys and Girls." From humorous interactions in the warehouse to touching character developments, these highlights underscore the episode's lasting impact.

Angela Kinsey [59:23]: "Madge pushing a cart and saying, 'I'm wanted in three states,' always cracks me up."

Jenna Fischer [60:19]: "The first shot of the office guys at the staircase, with Dwight comparing the warehouse to Lost, is iconic."

Denny Gordon [60:36]: "Finding joy in every moment we captured. It was an extraordinary experience."

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10. Conclusion

In this episode, Office Ladies successfully bridges the gap between fans and creators, offering an intimate glance into the making of one of The Office's most cherished episodes. Through Denny Gordon’s expertise and the hosts' personal anecdotes, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the creative processes and heartfelt relationships that defined the show.

Jenna Fischer [66:29]: "Thank you so much for everyone for listening. We love doing this podcast so much."

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Notable Quotes:

• Jenna Fischer [02:39]: "We have a really special episode today. We're revisiting 'Boys and Girls' with a very special guest."

• Denny Gordon [14:39]: "When Greg started talking about keeping the documentary feel, it was amazing. It required a very lively camera and spontaneous moments."

• Angela Kinsey [27:00]: "Pam's decision not to pursue the special design program... it adds a dramatic arc that resonates deeply."

• Denny Gordon [38:31]: "Directing talking heads was a revelation. You have to act the journalist and think on your feet to bring out something new."

---

Conclusion: This detailed summary encapsulates the rich discussions and heartfelt moments shared by Jenna, Angela, and Denny. By focusing on the creative intricacies and emotional depth of "Boys and Girls," the Office Ladies podcast episode offers both nostalgic value and new insights for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Jenna Fischer]

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And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the Office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[Denny Gordon]

Hello.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi there. We have a really special episode today. We're so Excited about it. We are going to be revisiting Boys and Girls episode from season two with a very special guest.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. This is season two, episode 15. Boys and girls is very special to us for a number of reasons. First, because this episode was based on an idea that we pitched to Greg on set one day.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. We were standing, I remember, by the copier that was between reception and accounting, and we were chit chatting and we were like, greg, Greg, we have an idea for an episode. And he walked over and we both said, look, we tempt in corporate America. And we would have to go to.

[Jenna Fischer]

These, like, women seminars, like women in the workplace seminars. And so we said, wouldn't it be funny if Jan came in and threw a women in the workplace seminar? And Michael got all jealous and he threw a men in the workplace seminar. And Greg was like, oh, my gosh, I love it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, wait.

[Jenna Fischer]

Bj, come here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, come over here.

[BJ Novak]

Come here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sitting over by Creed. And he was like, get over here. Grab a notepad. And literally he was like, jot this down.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he was like, tell him what you just told me. So we told BJ same thing. And then Greg goes, then what happens? And we were like, we don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

We don't know. That's all we got.

[Jenna Fischer]

But BJ was like, okay, okay. And he would ask us some questions. And I think there were, like, a number of things that kind of made their way into the episode that were based on some of the questions that BJ asked us. And then he got assigned to write it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Boys and girls.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Denny Gordon]

So fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it was also really special to us because it was directed by Denny Gordon, who at the time in 2006, was only the second woman to direct an episode of the Office. And she joined us in the studio to talk about her time on the show. This was such a wonderful interview.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness. From the minute she walked in the door, you'll hear yes, and you'll get it. She's just amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

She just walked in the door and hugged us and told us how proud she was of us. I know, we were, like, trying not to tear up because we respect her so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. We actually wrote about Denny Gordon in our book, the office BFFs. We did a little research for the book, and we found that of the 55 different directors that we had on the Office, only six were women. Denny directed two episodes of the Office. Actually, she directed the Secret and Boys and Girls. She is such a trailblazer among female directors in Film and television. She was one of the first women to graduate from the Yale School of drama with an MFA in directing. She has directed over 100 hours of network television, as well as films and commercials. She has a very long and impressive resume, and she's also directed several episodes of John Krasinski's show, Jack Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, and we talked to her about that, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

We did.

[Angela Kinsey]

We also shared a photo in our book that we took during the filming of Boys and Girls. It's really special to us. We were basically on set one day and we looked around and realized it was just us gals that were working the whole day. So we all gathered around Denny for a picture.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so great. You have to share it in stories.

[Angela Kinsey]

I will. We're also going to discuss the extra footage added to the Superfan version of Boys and Girls. So the original broadcast ran at 21 minutes and 21 seconds, and the extended cut has an additional 10 minutes and 84 seconds. So that's a lot of extra scenes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, when we talked to Dave Rogers about creating the superfan episodes, he said Boys and Girls was one of his favorites. He gave us his list of top 10 superfan episodes, and this is one of them. I loved watching it. I mean, I can see why he said that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So many of the scenes are extended.

[Angela Kinsey]

And also, not only are they extended, but they really add to the story.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, exactly. I think really enrich the story.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, before we go to break, let me give a quick summary of the episode. But rather than have me summarize the episode, let's hear what Pam has to say. Today's a women in the workplace thing. Jan's coming in from corporate to talk to all the women about I don't really know what. But Michael's not allowed in. She said that about five times. And then, of course, Michael has his version of what's happening. Let's hear that.

[BJ Novak]

Yeah. Translation. I have been banned from my own conference room so that Jan can talk in secret to all the girls. Sorry, women of the workplace. About what?

[Denny Gordon]

I don't know.

[BJ Novak]

Clothes. Me.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's so put out that they're talking about me.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Probably him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Michael gets upset when he's excluded from the seminar, so of course he's going to have his own meeting with all of the men down in the warehouse. And meanwhile, in this episode, this is the one where Jan tells Pam about a special design program that the company is offering. Jim is encouraging her to do it, Roy is not. And ultimately, Pam Decides not to pursue it. Very dramatic arc in the story.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very dramatic. That Pam talking head kind of breaks my heart.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, the superfan episode starts with a whole new cold open. And lady, I loved it because it's more of Michael versus technology.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, it's very funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it starts with Michael hanging out at front reception.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He tells Pam that he's really overwhelmed because he just spent $400 on a new phone because he liked the rington, only to learn that you can choose any ringtone you want.

[Angela Kinsey]

He thought the ringtone came specifically with the phone.

[Jenna Fischer]

But also, lady, he has a flip phone. He spent $400 on a flip phone.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did they ever cost that? I wanted to look it up, but I didn't.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then Michael's, like, going through all the different ringtones. Some are, like, classical, but the one that he really loves makes the sound kind of like a jackhammer. And he makes the noise. It's like. And Jim goes, do you mean vibrate? Because they all have vibrations.

[Jenna Fischer]

They all have.

[Angela Kinsey]

That little bit of old tech. Made me chuckle.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, why don't we go to break, and when we come back, you are going to hear our conversation about this peacock extended episode of Boys and Girls with director Denny Gordon. It is not to be missed.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Denny hello and welcome to the studio.

[Denny Gordon]

I am super excited to be here. I've been fans of your show and thank you for having me. I mean, it took me back to look at all the old episodes, and what a blast. How deliciously fun. Normally, I can't go back and look at episodes, and this was just beyond fun. So thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, wow. Well, we have been wanting to talk to you for a long time. So you really just made our dreams come true by being here today.

[Denny Gordon]

Bless you. Bless you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, you directed two episodes of the Office. You directed the Secret, and Boys and Girls, we always ask people this question. How did you get your job directing the Office?

[Denny Gordon]

Well, I had done a couple of shows with our beloved Ken Guapis, and we knew each other. And I think he started talking to Greg Daniels about me. And I think Greg and I had the same agents, so I think Richard White's super agent was, you know, blah, blahing about me. So I got an interview, and of course, you were the hottest show on the planet at the time. I mean, and continued to be so, like, I was so thrilled. I thought, even if I don't get a job, I'm just so excited to be in the mix and have a chance to talk. And I met Greg at the Earth Cafe, and what was crazy was it was not even an interview. It was like Greg just started downloading to me all these wonderful idiosyncrasies about the show, you know, how you shot it and your process and how you created this environment and how special it was, and just all these tips on how I might, you know, come live in that world with you for a while. So when I got a chance to come over, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow, that's so great. So we've asked a lot of people about their first meeting with Greg, and they've said that a lot of times. Conversation went to all kinds of places and lasted like an hour. And it sounds like you guys had a great first meeting.

[Denny Gordon]

It was a great first meeting. He dropped so much knowledge on me. So many things I still remember to this day and think of in all the work that I'm doing, one of the things he was how important it was to just remember we were a documentary. And it had never dawned on me, even though I'd been devoted to your show and watching was, you know, that sometimes, you know, we would rehearse something, and then there'd be a swish pan to rain or, you know, something, and how that always had to stay spontaneous and how you had to keep the camera late in getting there because you don't know that magical moment is gonna happen. So it, you know, really required a very lively camera. And of course, Randall was awesome and the operating was so key and it was just so of the moment. And when Greg started talking about that and how we keep that so that it feels like we're capturing life, which was so critical on this show. When he started talking about that, it was so amazing. And yeah, I think our conversation spun around a lot of ways. But he did really get me so excited and intrigued because I began to see how you worked and the process. You know, there's this secret little world and we close the door and all the crew is gone and there we are and you're powdering your own nose and you're journaling at your desk and everybody is just, you know, you remember, everybody's just behaving. And it was such a magical time and place. I've never experienced that anywhere before. So it was like such a gift. Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

How did you prep for directing the show?

[Denny Gordon]

Well, crazily enough, I had been making a film in the uk, so I had watched the UK version. I was out of my mind over. And I remember saying to somebody, a producer, we should buy the rights. Of course, you guys, I think were already in production, but I watched, of course, all of season one, and I think it was such a well oiled machine, you guys. I mean, I think I had the script well before I came and I think I came over a couple days to observe. I don't know, maybe Ken was directing. And I got a chance to observe because it was so unusual. It was pretty rare air. And how you guys worked and how you achieved what you were achieving, really needed, you know, needed to be a good fit. And so I was super keen to, you know, fit in and fall in line. Of course, Ken Kwap is the hardest act to follow, you know, on the planet as a director. It's like, oh my God, we're not worthy. And I remember thinking, you know, I just. With this group of superstars, I don't need to be doing your homework for you. You will do your homework for you. You know these people so well that, man, I'm just lucky if I can come in and maybe figure out what's the most fun place to play this scene. Where's the chance for physical comedy? That's how I can help. But that you guys knew yourselves so well that, that it was just, how do I keep that atmosphere going so you can live and breathe? You know, in this moment, you certainly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Put the camera, I thought, in some really fantastic Places. And if you watch the Superfan episodes, there are a few tags and things. There's a shot of Madge in the warehouse pushing her cart. And the camera is really low on the ground, so you're kind of looking up her neck and up her nose a little bit. And she's just pissed off at just being a part of it. But it just built that moment. So wonderful.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, thank you. I know. I'd forgotten about so much of that. That's what was so delicious about these extended episodes. These super fan episodes are crazy great. Aren't they amazing?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Yes. It's so. There was. Especially this episode, there was so much extra. It was able to breathe. In fact, let's jump in, because this episode opens and Jan has, like, gathered all the women in the conference room. She's gonna start her women in the workplace seminar. But Michael, of course, is super jealous and annoyed that he's not included, so he keeps busting in. Jan eventually throws him out. The Superfan episode is so great because it just includes more stuff from Jan. She talks about how men who are assertive are respected, but women who are assertive get called the B word or the C word. And it just kind of builds even more on the premise, which I really loved. And we were curious, what were your thoughts when you first read this script? Like, did this speak to you in any way? It definitely spoke to me.

[Denny Gordon]

It totally spoke to me. You know, at this point in my career, I think I had been everywhere I'd gone to direct. I was usually the only woman in the whole season. So it's like I really, you know, was relating. It's so much better now, and we've still got miles to go. But at the time, I was always, you know, the lonely chicken. And I remember thinking how great the script was that BJ Novak wrote, and that we were gonna get to see all of you guys reacting to this idea, you know, pre human resources, pre canceling, like, women in the workplace, boys and girls, you know, what do people really think of these issues? And it was. I just thought, if I do it right, we're gonna have, like, all these wonderful surprises about your characters and how you really feel about things. It was a goldmine. I knew, you know, BJ had just, like, it was the tip of the iceberg, and there was always gonna be so much extra. I mean, I remember we were 10 minutes over in the extra super version. We had 10 minutes of gold that the audience didn't get to see.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

And so glad for that. Cause jokes didn't even have time to pay off, you know, in lots of ways, like the fact that the guys had unloaded, that Michael had told them to unload the truck. And we thought, okay, well, that goes. But then we realized that that was a shipment going out. Out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So.

[Denny Gordon]

So we really needed that time to let it breathe. So thank God for the super episodes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wanted to talk about a scene that's extended in the Super Fan that I thought really built with that extra footage. So Michael has come into the conference room, and he's interrupted this women's meeting, and Jan throws him out, and he just can't take it. He can't take it that the ladies have this meeting. So he gathers the guys in the bullpen. Of course, he sits right up against that conference room window. He even kind of bangs it. And they're so loud. And the way you cut the scene back and forth. In the extended version, you can actually hear how inappropriate Michael's being because you actually go into the conference room. Whereas in the original, the way it's edited, they're outside the whole time. And I thought, denny, we should hear it.

[Denny Gordon]

Yes. Oh, God, what fun. My favorite. Yeah, he's really banging against that glass.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

So to be in a position of.

[Jenna Fischer]

Leadership, you often need to be assertive. Right.

[Denny Gordon]

You have to be able to state a firm opinion. And this means that you have to give up the fantasy of being everyone's friend.

[BJ Novak]

Well, first of all, I just want to warm up a little bit. Now, I know this is going to sound crazy to you, but in India, they do this thing called laughter therapy, and I want to try it out. It's when a group of people just get together, and they laugh as hard as they can. So I want to try that with you right now. On the count of three, let's laugh as hard and loudly as we can. Ready? One, two, three.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness.

[BJ Novak]

Let's just clap. Let's just clap. Ready?

[Denny Gordon]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[BJ Novak]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Denny Gordon]

I don't know what you're doing here.

[BJ Novak]

Just having a little guys in the workplace thing.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, my God, I love that so much. And what was so great, I think we discovered this in rehearsal was, you know, what's Jan gonna do? And she goes back in and closes the blind so that they're not even there. There was another physical comedy moment I think we discovered. But, yeah, that teed up everything that's gonna follow.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Denny Gordon]

And I loved it so much. God, there was just so much there. And what a Poignant episode. I remember, you know, and going around the room and hearing from everybody on your side and every. You know, you all had such interesting reactions. I think you said you were in the most mature relationship of your adult life. Yes. And then we cut to you and Rain being super awkward going through a door.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Denny Gordon]

You know, and then the reveal of your interest in art and that you actually started a beautiful drawing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Denny Gordon]

Tell me about that. Did you just make that up on. Was that in the script, or did you just do that?

[Jenna Fischer]

That was. Phil Shea, the prop master, gave me that notebook with that sketch in various forms of being done, because I couldn't draw something like that. And so that was, like, his contribution that I be, like, kind of doing that sketch. And. I know. I noticed that, too. I thought, what a great detail, right?

[Denny Gordon]

Yeah. Such a fantastic detail. And, you know, the thing that is so incredible, you know, in our life, we're maybe blessed to have a be on a show where everyone cares so much about what we're doing that our prop man would be so deeply involved in the story that he would think that for you and offer that up to you. I mean, that was part of the magic of the thing. Every single person in that family was rooting for the best show possible. I mean, that's just one example.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's truly how it felt, though. Like, we're only as good as our weakest person or, you know, like, everyone was a collective, and. And, Denny, you just came right in to the fold, just like that. Like, I felt like you elevated us. And Jen and I have talked about this on the podcast. Just. We had this moment where we all looked around, and we're like, it's only us gals. There's only gals on the set today.

[Denny Gordon]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

How special that was in that moment.

[Denny Gordon]

It was. It was. And I just. I thought it was just so wonderful, you know, sitting in the. In, you know, in the conference room and being able to, you know, get reactions from each of you. Of course, each woman coming from her different place and time. You remember Kate's line. She says, hi, I'm Kate, and I'm an Ow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

It was just so full of gold. And everybody having, you know, Mindy wanting an suv and what everybody wanted was so in character and such a reveal. I think the audience. I don't know. Did the audience love the episode as much as we three do?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think they do. And people remind me a lot of Pam's dream to have a terrace that she can plant flowers on. I get asked that question a lot. Do I think Pam ever got her terrace with flowers? Because that. And in the superfan episode, that's even more extended, like, her talking about that and what that means to her. I really loved that. That was based on a story that I told BJ Novak about reading a book when I was younger. It was like a choose your own adventure book. And the girl in the book had a house with, like, a. What do you call that? It almost looks like a little tower, you know, where it's like a round room, kind of a.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like a Rapunzel tower.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little bit like a Rapunzel tower. And the girl in the book would just. This was her special place, and she got a new little sister, but she could go to her tower and daydream. And I used to think, oh, I hope one day I can have a house with, like, my own tower room. And I'll just make it my own little library where I read books and be creative. It just sounded, like, so wonderful. And he turned that into a terrace with plants. So I think when I was doing those talking heads, and as Pam when I was talking about them, I was trying to summon the little girl in me who wanted her tower house.

[Angela Kinsey]

Beautiful.

[Denny Gordon]

Beautiful.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think that's why it's so relatable, too, because every little kid does have a dream like that of something that feels a little magical, Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

I love that it resonates with the audience, you know, and that you told the story so well. You know, it's not a lot to ask that you can have a room with some plants and a view, you know? Yeah, yeah. And such a lovely dream. I think that really kicked off the whole poignancy of your dreams. And then the whole art school subplot or the art training subplot, which was. Which was so great in the script and the way you played it that we know this is something that your hearts desire, but, like, you're already. Even though Jan's trying to make it possible for you, you're already thinking of all the reasons why not and how much it meant that, you know, Roy versus Jim. That, you know, Roy was never gonna be on board with this. But who's your greatest supporter? Who's your biggest fan? Is Jim. And the whole poignancy of that arc and how sometimes we all give up on our dreams at some point. Cause it's just too hard or because.

[Jenna Fischer]

You don't have the cheerleader in the place where you need it the most. I mean, if the person you're living with and spending your life with isn't lifting up your dreams and aspirations. That is a really hard wind to push against.

[Denny Gordon]

No. And I think that we began, you know, we. The audience, we saw that. And it relates to the episode that I did prior to this. In the Secret. When you find out that that crush that everybody's talking about Jim having is not in the past. It's right here, right now. And how you are just. And you played it so beautifully, just, like, so secretly thrilled that it's today. And then you're going down in the elevator together, and then we, the audience, are going, keep them together. Keep them together. Please, please, please. We need this love to blossom. It just teed up everything so well that followed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, well, the Superfan episode has more of this Jim Pam arc. It actually turns a little physical between Jim and Roy. This is not in the original episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

It happens down in the warehouse. Roy, you know, has heard that Jim told Pam she should take the job, and he's ticked off about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It starts with Roy shoving Jim.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we have a clip.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's hear it. Let's hear it.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, boy. We're fighting.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're fighting.

[BJ Novak]

Hey, look at us, huh? All working together, getting along, united. Man to brothers.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like a union.

[Denny Gordon]

Better.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hey, what the hell, man? You don't tell her what to do, all right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on, man. I was just giving her my opinion.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, well, it has nothing to do with you.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's between her and me, all right? You gotta respect that. Oh, yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

In front of all the guys in the warehouse. You gotta respect that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

Wow. It's amazing that. Cause there'd been all these undercurrents and all these rumors, you know, I guess it was inevitable that it would get, you know, that it would come out at some point.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

I can't remember. Was that in the original script?

[Jenna Fischer]

That was in the original script, but it did not make it into the original episode.

[Denny Gordon]

Right, right. Oh, it's so important that it got to that hot level.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And Jim looks like when Roy yells at him. You've gotta respect that. He looks like someone just slapped him across the face. Like, just the embarrassment and sort of being held accountable in a way in front of everyone to his feelings. It's really powerful.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then Jim goes up to the kitchen, and Pam's sitting there, and he's like, really? You're not gonna. Not gonna do it, huh?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, God, I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

And she is. It's so awkward between them.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Pam has a line that now makes sense. Because she's like, how'd you know? You're like, well, Roy just, you know, slammed me to the ground.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, man. And, you know, we saw that life, you know, we could all understand what that life was gonna be like going forward. That flat line of a life. Going forward with Roy, as opposed to being with your best friend who really gets you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And wants the best for you.

[Denny Gordon]

He sees you. You were seen by Jim. I mean, such a fantastic relationship. I remember. That is one thing that Greg talked to me about early on. He said, you know, you're gonna really get into big time on this very precious storyline that we have. And he teased some of the story out to me at that point. You know, very delicate. Very delicate stuff. And, boy, I mean, and how that romance captured everybody in America, man, we were rooting for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I just know in my own life, I feel such gratitude that my parents supported my dream of being an actor. Like, my key relationships supported me. Like, I always felt like on each step of the journey, there was at least one person who was telling me I could do it. And even with that, it was hard, you know, even with my parents saying, listen, we don't know if you'll ever make any money doing this or make a living, but if this is what is in your heart, then we're here for you.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, my God, what a gift.

[Jenna Fischer]

What a gift. Such a gift. Cause I talk to a lot of acting students and creative students, and they don't have that support. And I know how hard that is. And Pam didn't have it. I don't imagine, like, her parents were encouraging her to become an artist either.

[Denny Gordon]

You know, she had a good job at Dunder Mifflin. Why fool with it? Yeah, I'm sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly.

[Denny Gordon]

But no, it's a wonderful. I had the same thing. My parents just said, you know, do it. Follow your heart, and the rest will follow. We can't wait to see where it's all going. And, you know, that. What a wonderful thing. I said that to my son all the time. Like, I don't know where you're going, but can't wait to see.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was it always directing for you?

[Denny Gordon]

Always, always. I mean, for like, a nanosecond, I thought, oh, I'm gonna. Maybe I'll try being an actress. And then I got, my God, you have to have a skin like a rhinoceros. I don't know how you guys do it. I got kicked in the teeth a couple times, and I said, okay, try that next. And my Directors who I was working with said, you tend to boss everybody else around. Maybe you want to think about directing instead of acting, because that might be a better fit. And that was in college. And then the head of the theater department at my college, he said, why don't you take a show? Do a show? And so I did a show. I did Samuel Beckett's Endgame and had a blast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Denny Gordon]

Yeah. Really amazing play. And. And then he said, you should apply to Yale Drama School. And I went, oh, no, that's. Oh, no. I was really, Pam on that. I was like, oh, that's not for me. That. That's rich blood. They said. I said, they don't. They only take, like, four students. And he said, yeah, you could be one of those four.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man.

[Denny Gordon]

So I applied, and I couldn't believe it. I got my acceptance letter on April Fool's Day, and I was so sure that my friends had pranked me.

[Angela Kinsey]

They pranked you?

[Denny Gordon]

And. And it was. I always consider that my first big. You know, And. Yeah, so.

[Angela Kinsey]

But you had someone that believed in you.

[Denny Gordon]

I had someone that believed in me and was pushing me. So. Yeah. And I think we know that Jim is gonna continue to push Pam, and who knows where that all could go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

We captured some really wonderful moments because of that. Not just your arc, but everybody else and kind of where they were and what they were doing, how checked out they were of the whole process or.

[Angela Kinsey]

How committed they were or how judgy they were.

[Denny Gordon]

How judgy they were. Do you ever think how fun it would be to just go back there again? If they talk to you guys about, wouldn't it be just dreamy to do a reunion show?

[Jenna Fischer]

I wish that I could. Like, if I ever found, like, a genie in a bottle and I got three wishes, I think one of my wishes would be that I could go back and shoot an episode of the Office again. But, like, go back and, like, reshoot Boys and Girls. Like, just experience it and live with this perspective.

[Angela Kinsey]

After all these years, I would love to sit in a party planning committee scene. It would make me so happy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

Do you. Does anybody come to you for that? Has an NPC come to you guys for that?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't think we can get the whole group back together. And I also think, like, I don't know if there's, like, a. I don't want to undo the bow that we put on the end of it by, like, figuring out a way that all these people are back in the office again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Like, so we just treasure it, you know, but doing this podcast, it feels like we get to revisit it a little bit.

[Denny Gordon]

Of course, of course.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

And I wanted to ask you, with your directing experience, when you joined the office, had you done any talking heads? Had you directed talking heads?

[Denny Gordon]

No. And the talking heads thing was like a revelation because I realized that, okay, I have an acting background, and now I have to act the journalist.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Denny Gordon]

You know, I have to be watching you answer my questions. And while I'm enjoying so much your answer and just seeing how that's gonna drop into the cut, I have to get ahead of it too, at the same time and be thinking about what I can ask you. That's gonna bring out something fun and surprising and new. And I would just get so mesmerized. And that especially happened with Steve. We're in the mid. We're in the middle of Steve coming up with, you know, spouting some gold, and I'm just like.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I have to ask you about one of his talking heads. And I laugh so hard because it's so much longer in the superfan version than what originally aired. So basically, Jan has just kicked them out. He grabs the guys. He's like, we're gonna go down to the warehouse, and he has this talking head, and let's hear it. Let's hear it.

[BJ Novak]

We're gonna head down there, all of us guys and all of those guys together. We're gonna be one guy today. The office and the warehouse. The waffice journey of self discovery. Oh, I think this is gonna work out great because managing the warehouse is a very important part of my job, and I haven't been there in months.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, my God. I know. What such a great idea to go down below, down to the depths. So great. So great.

[Angela Kinsey]

When you were doing the talking heads with Steve, were you prepared for how much off script he would sometimes go and then come back to the written script so seamlessly?

[Denny Gordon]

No, I was just amazed. And I think that's how I got so mesmerized and lost, because I remember at one point, we literally looked at each other, and he's looking to me like, blink, blink. Do you have another question for me? And I'M so completely caught up in his performance and the way his mind worked that we could go off on these crazy tangents and then he would bring us back. I mean, I had an improv background, thank God. And I think that, you know, every director needs that no matter what they're doing. But especially in this high stakes game of the Office, you need your improv chops. You just have to have it because it's such a high wire act, what you guys were doing and so dangerous. That's when it got great. It's like we didn't really know what was gonna happen and, you know, that we could just. Who knows, you just gotta. I remember talking to Randy Einhorn, our dp, about this and just saying, we just have to be ready. We have to be ready. We don't know what Steve's gonna do. We don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know especially Steve or even Rainer, and you don't know what's gonna happen and just be ready to go to it and capture that gold. And what I so admired in so many ways, you know, the craft, especially boys and girls. But it seemed like even when someone was just in the, you know, in the deep background, there was something delicious happening that you, you wanted to rack, focus to it and see what it was. It was just nonstop.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, everybody's on, everyone's playing their part. I, I loved just seeing Kevin in the background. Once he said that he would back up Jim if Roy came for him. Just how Brian played, like this tension throughout the episode, like.

[Denny Gordon]

Didn'T break into that. All of that just so delicious. And, you know, that's why I look back so nostalgically at it because when did we get a chance to do something that, you know, incredibly layered and, you know, just everybody. I just felt like a composer and you guys, it's just all these Stradivarius violins playing at the same time.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jenny, you mentioned that you had some improv background. And I'm so curious, what does that mean?

[Denny Gordon]

Well, when I was, I was at Yale Drama School because, you know, I told you April Fools, I got pranked into going and was fantastic preparation because, you know, you had to do everything. The directors had to act. I had to pass an acting audition before I could get into the directing program, which I think was pretty brilliant, that you could never put yourself in a position where you could be speaking to actors and not really understand what it is to be in the shoes.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's fantastic.

[Denny Gordon]

So that's a very wonderful part. Of that program. But we did have a little cabaret theater, and we did have a lot of classes in improvisation, and it just taught me so much. I always like to do an improv pass. And I try to. I tell my people, you know, let's make time for one where. And I tell the writers, too. Like, you know, we've got the written version. Let's do. I call it the wing ding. Let's go. Let's just get. Let's get. Let's get a wing Ding in the can, because something magical might happen and how delicious that's gonna be. And so, yeah, I think having that background really helped me, you know, to blend with you guys and the way your heads were working, it made a big difference.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's so cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I certainly felt like we had the ability to improv when you were on set. And there are some directors that you can just feel that ease. And I don't know if the word permission is the right word, but you just feel that creative dance. And I remember that even with us gals in the conference room, because not all of that was scripted. There were a few little moments here and there where we got to play around. And poor Jan. Most of it was at Jan's expense.

[Denny Gordon]

I remember your great line because it was talking about aspirational dressing, and you said, clearly, Jan aspires to be a slut or a whore. A whore.

[Angela Kinsey]

But why? Because she has on black stockings and black high heels.

[Denny Gordon]

Like, imagine.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. And there is extra moments, like as Jan's leaving and all the gals go to the window to watch her leave. Kelly says, I like her shoes. And my character goes, I don't like why.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

They're a very sensible low heel. Yes.

[Denny Gordon]

No, I love that. It was a bridge too far for you. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

She crossed the line.

[Denny Gordon]

She crossed the line into slept them. No, there was just so much gold like that. My God.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we also did have a pretty big stunt with you. Now, we never had stunts, hardly ever, but you had this one where Michael has the. And he's trying to put a box on a shelf, and then he knocks them all, and they domino and they crash. And we were so curious about shooting that. Did you guys get it in one?

[Denny Gordon]

We got it in one because, you know, as successful as the show was, you know, we were always up against it in terms of time and money. And also, I was pretty sure that it would deaden if we had to do take two. So I told everybody, we're gonna get this in one take. So let's just sort of loosely rehearse it, and what happens happens. And I think the art department had helped me. We kind of rigged the shelves so that they would domino down, but. And, you know, Steve was great. He had a pretty good idea of how to make that thing swing. But, yeah, that was one take. And then what was so challenging was that as the guys further destroyed the warehouse, you know, we had to shoot that in continuity. You know, getting the Styrofoam peanuts down. And all the mess that we were making had to be in continuity because we were, you know, progressing, destroying the workplace.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then Dwight's spud gun that goes into Daryl's window as well.

[Denny Gordon]

I miss that in the shorter cut. That was so great.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember in episodes following this episode that Daryl's window was, like, being repaired. And then there was no real context for it, but it was because Dwight shot the window with his potato gun. Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

Maybe in our dreams, we were all imagining we'd get to do a longer version and keep all the gold. I remember inviting you and Krasinski into the edit room once. Cause I was like, oh, my God, you know, I gotta make all these hard choices. We gotta get this down to airtime.

[Jenna Fischer]

Were we helpful?

[Denny Gordon]

You were very helpful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Really?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, I'm very helpful.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm glad to hear that.

[Denny Gordon]

Well, because it was so much about you, I think it may. I don't know if it was the first episode I did or the second, but I just thought, look, you guys are inhabiting this. Let's see what you're thinking about this. And you will be remembering things that you did. And did we capture it the way you remembered it? You know, oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't remember you doing that, but I have no doubt that you did. And that was something that they did on the show a lot, was invite the actors to come into the editing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Room, which is so unique.

[Jenna Fischer]

Never happened to me again.

[Denny Gordon]

Really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. No, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we didn't know that. We thought that was pretty normal. So our jobs after were like, are we. Does anyone want us to watch some of the dailies? They're like, no, isn't that terrible?

[Denny Gordon]

So many of the things that were set in place and the procedures and the rhythms were designed to succeed. And there's a reason why they just. And I often. I mean, I wonder, like, how did that begin? Did Greg say, this is the way we're doing it? Or was it Ken coming in and saying, this is the way we're gonna do it? Because it's clearly. It's all based on success. We're all in this together.

[Angela Kinsey]

I really think it's Greg. I mean, you know, even from the very beginning of the show, if someone had a thought, he's just a curious person. I remember him going to the accountants in the production trailer and asking their input about, like, what they thought of this scene, did it seem realistic, you know, And I think he encouraged that in his whole group. I still remember Dave Rogers telling me one time, Ang, we had just filmed Casino Night. And he was like, ange, I want you to come and see the take where you slapped Dwight. He was like, I don't know if you know this, but Matt Sohn caught your little smile after the slap. And he said, and I put it in. And I was like, that's just so special. And so I went into the editing bay and I saw that. And I just don't think that happens very often. And I think that was Greg. Greg made us all a team like that.

[Denny Gordon]

It doesn't. I love having actors in the edit room, you know, when I'm ready to show it to them if they can take it. Because you have to ask them first, like, if we have a lot more to shoot. I don't want them to be freaked out for the going forward at the choices they've made. I have to always see, are you someone who can. Are you strong tail?

[Angela Kinsey]

Can you take it? Yeah.

[Denny Gordon]

Can you take it? But once it's well after the fact.

[Jenna Fischer]

Then I like to see playback on set. Sometimes I do too, because my training. When I came out to la, I ended up studying with a really great teacher who was really helping me with on camera auditioning when you'd have to go on tape and he would have us do the audition on tape, and then we would sit in class and we would all watch the auditions. But you were only allowed to comment on your own. You were not allowed to give notes to other actors. And I have to say, like, so often, like, watching it back, I was like, oh, yeah, I see it. My face is in my script too much. I didn't have the first three lines memorized. That moment of decision that I thought was powerful in my head is not reading. I need to try something else. So when I'm on set, like, if I'm wondering, like, am I nailing this? Am I giving this what it's supposed to have? I'll ask, can I watch playback of that last one? Because I can just see it. I can see that what needs to be there isn't there. And I'll Be like, oh, I got it. Sometimes, like, for me. But a lot of times I find that directors and producers are kind of scared to show actors playback, because I think maybe some people spiral. But I find it really helpful.

[Denny Gordon]

I think it is incredibly helpful. I just finished this project in the uk, and it was like, we were like a Tower of Babel. There were, like, five different languages being spoken on set, and it was so great for some of the actors. I said, just come and sit for a second and let me show you what you did. They think they're like, I got it. You know, it's so much faster than giving a note. In some cases, it's like, oh, geez. I thought, okay, got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I love it.

[Denny Gordon]

And then you'll go nail it. You love it too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I do. Cause it just like what you said. It's. It's immediate. You just see it right away. You're like, oh, why am I. I'm, like, looking at the plate that's about to break.

[Denny Gordon]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe I shouldn't be anticipating this. This whatever it is that's coming across my face.

[Denny Gordon]

Right, right. God, how fun our jobs are.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

So fun, right?

[Denny Gordon]

You know, I don't know anything that's more fun. I mean, everybody in Hollywood's trying to pivot right now and be like, you know, how could we possibly do anything else when we love it so much?

[Jenna Fischer]

What's your favorite part of directing? Do you love pre production? Do you love shooting? Do you love editing? What do you like?

[Denny Gordon]

You know, it's crazy. I really love all of it in the prep. It's such a heady time because you can dream and invent and imagine, and then your dreams get kicked in the teeth a little bit because there's not the money or time to do what you're dreaming. But I love the prep, and for me, it's all about the prep. And the more prepped I am, we'll have much more fun when we're shooting, because when we're shooting, it's like, you know, we've really thought about this. It's like, yeah, well, you know, you need that drawing and that notebook of drawings. You know, we will have already thought about that. We're not always blessed to have such a wonderful prop man in our pocket. I love the shooting. I love the thrill of it. I think what makes our work a little addicting is that you look at a schedule, you know, and you go, oh, my God, I've got to do this, this, this, and this today. And we'll never make it. And then somehow we do. And at the end of the day, you're so, as the Brits say, chuffed. Like, man, we did it. High five all around. You know, it's like we actually survived this. And I can't think of any other craft or business where at the end of the day, you get to have share that joy with everybody. Like, we faced the impossible today, and all these disastrous things happened and we still crushed. That's part of the fun. You have to do that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Absolutely.

[Denny Gordon]

I mean, that's why we become production junkies. We have to keep going back to that high.

[Angela Kinsey]

The whole time you were telling that story, I thought of this moment that I always say to my daughter when we think something can't happen, like, how are we going to pull this off? There's that movie Shakespeare in Love, and everything's going wrong with the play. They were like, how's that going to happen? He goes, it's the theater. It's a mystery.

[Denny Gordon]

No, I love that. Was that. Who was that that said Geoffrey Rush? Geoffrey Rush. Yes, it was Geoffrey Rush.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was Geoffrey Rush.

[Denny Gordon]

It's a mystery.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's a mystery.

[Denny Gordon]

I love that. I've said that on set a couple times. Yeah, I do love that. Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you still direct theater?

[Denny Gordon]

No, sadly, I don't. And you know what? I'm so keen to give it another whack. I've been reading about this wonderful play on Broadway that Sarah Snook is starring in, and they're using a lot of cameras, and I thought, this is such an exciting place, you know, a new way of telling a story, new media, where cameras meet performance, live performance. And I'm dying to get to New York to see it. And I just. I would love to do something like that. That would really be up my. Up my alley. And I am dying to see how they're doing it, because I keep hearing there's moments where they go in close on her hands. She's playing about six, eight parts. It sounds like a tour de force, but, yeah, I'd love to do theater again anytime, anywhere. Would really love. Now I'm writing and doing some personal projects that I'm into, and I just finished this massive project. Did I mention this in the UK with Guy Ritchie?

[Angela Kinsey]

No. What are you doing?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, it's called Young Sherlock and Guy Ritchie is the executive producer. It's like we go back from the movies with Robert Downey and Jude Law. We go back, and now Sherlock is a Just a young man at Oxford and. God, we Had a blast. We had such a great cast. I got reunited with Colin Firth with. I'd done a movie and we had Joseph Fiennes and then his nephew hero Fiennes, gonna be a huge star, plays Sherlock. And it was super fun to try to shoot in Guy Ritchie style, you know, which is so crazy and muscular and completely nutball. We had just the best time. I literally just got back from that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait to watch that.

[Denny Gordon]

That's coming in the fall.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man.

[Denny Gordon]

I think Amazon's thinking of it as kind of a big tentpole. Fingers crossed. We had a blast, so we hope the audience does well.

[Jenna Fischer]

You also had reunited with John Krasinski on season two of Jack Ryan. How was that?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, my God. Well, he advocated for it and I was so grateful because I think he just really needed a familiar face, you know, at that point. And we'd had such a good time together. And that show was crazy and really hard and we were in all these like super dangerous locations.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was gonna say they filmed that all over the place.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, my God. Well, we were in the jungle, you know, we had poisonous snakes and poisonous spiders and everything. And 120 degrees. And then we were in Moscow and New York and London. It was completely nuts. And everything that could go wrong did go wrong. And so, you know, naturally we needed to laugh our way through it or otherwise we would have jumped off a cliff. That was really hard. That was a blast. And he's asked me back a couple of times. It's never quite worked out. But that turned out to be such a big thing, you know, big franchise for him. And how fun knowing him as Jim, right? To see him develop into this huge leading man. I mean, we all knew he had that in him. I remember one time you said, I mean, look at him. Do you remember that? Like, look at this guy. I mean, of course. And see him develop as a director. Because we'd wake up every morning and we'd talk about the box office for a quiet place and that was just exploding. We would like shake our heads and go, oh, my God, John, here you go. You're a big ass director now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I remember on the set I would say to John, john, I think you're our Tom Hanks. Like, this is your Bosom Buddies. Like, this is literally just the start of something for you. Like, I know people will always know you as Jim Halpert and all of that, but, like, when people think of Tom Hanks, they don't think of Bosom Buddies, they think of everything. Else Tom Hanks has done. I was like, I think you're gonna be our Tom Hanks, John. I really do.

[Denny Gordon]

Boy, that was astute. Yeah, that was astute. Yeah. What a meteoric rise, too. Just the best.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just the best. I texted him. I watched a quiet place on an airplane. Probably not the best place. I was so freaked out on the plane and having big reactions. This lady next to me was like, what is happening with you? But, yeah, it's just been such a joy to watch our castmates have these new chapters of their life. And, you know, we all still have a text thread, the cast.

[Denny Gordon]

I was gonna ask you if you guys did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's called the Office Peeps. And we check in on it, and it means so much to us that we have each other still through all of these different seasons of life. And we check in, and BJ always says, office, family forever.

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, I love that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Denny Gordon]

I love that. Well, you know, because I think even at the time, you all knew that you were creating something extraordinarily special and that the likelihood of it coming again was slim and that somehow everything was firing on all cylinders and that you had to just sort of revel in your time. And I just. I think everybody felt that. Everybody knew that. And you know how joyous that was.

[Angela Kinsey]

And this group of people, too. We all knew each other well before anyone knew us. You know, like, we journeyed that other part of this industry, which is being at the very beginning, and it just builds a lifelong friendship in you.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember one of my good friends from back home in St. Louis when I was getting married, she said, I'm sorry to be nerdy, but are there gonna be any famous people at your wedding? And I said, no, not really. No. I don't think there's gonna be any famous people. And she said, oh, the cast of the Office isn't coming. And I said, oh, no, they're coming. Sorry. I don't think of them as famous people.

[Denny Gordon]

Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I think that still holds true to this day, as, you know, even as people are household names to us. They're just those people who were touching up their noses themselves on set or.

[Angela Kinsey]

Helping you buy your Honda. I remember Phyllis looking at cars online with me, things like that.

[Denny Gordon]

I completely love that. These are. What does BJ say? Friends forever. Office, family forever. There you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just said one thing. Since we all rewatched this superfan version of Boys and Girls. I know there was a moment that made me laugh every time that got me. It Was my favorite moment. And it's such a tiny moment. And the way you shot it is so brilliant. Michael has everyone in the warehouse seated in a circle, and he's like, guy talk. And he has his shirt unbuttoned and he says, hasselhoff. Yes, he's like, hasselhoff. But the thing that got me is I only saw a group of men. And then Madge leans forward and says, hey, do you want me to go? And he's like, no, why would I? And she's like, I'll go.

[Denny Gordon]

I know. I love that moment. I love that moment. It was pretty easy lens wise for her to just lean back. And I remember thinking, like, we have to hide her until that moment.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good.

[Denny Gordon]

I love that you love that moment. But, yeah, there's so many.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, there's so many. Do you have a favorite moment in your rewatch of this?

[Denny Gordon]

God, again, so many. Oh, God. I mean, it's just like the whole episode, there's never a moment where I felt let down. I mean, rain doing angels in the snow with the Styrofoam that Michael has emptied all the bags. And there were so many moments like that. Just loved every bit of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can tell you one of my favorites is that first shot of all the office guys at the top of the staircase, and they're looking down at, like, the hustle and bustle and the machinery and the music of the warehouse. And I love that line when Dwight says, remember on Lost when they met the others? And that's what it's like. And Michael has that line where he says, it's like, meet the Fockers, but it's like meet the warehouse. It's like, Michael, this warehouse has been here, but they're all almost discovering this world for the first time. And the way you shot it, like, they really are almost discovered ascending into this other place.

[Denny Gordon]

Right. I remember that with Dwight going down into the warehouse, going down at the bottom. We're so masculine down there, you know, so much testosterone down there. And it was so, you know, and. And Michael's saying, you know, I. I'm call white collar, blue collar. I'm collar blind. And everybody goes, exactly. It was so fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Denny, we love to end our interviews with the call sheet questions. You know, these were the questions that were on the back of the call sheet in the later seasons of the show. And we would get to know a crew member or a cast member. And so here we go. Are you ready?

[Denny Gordon]

I'm ready.

[Angela Kinsey]

What was your first Entertainment job.

[Denny Gordon]

You know, I got a job as an actress. That was my first entertainment job.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little.

[Denny Gordon]

A little, you know, municipal theater in Minneapolis St. Paul called the Stagecoach. It was a summer theater, and I got that job while I was still in high school. But it was an actual paying job. It was incredible. I was actually a little late to getting to college because of it. So, yeah, that's when I thought I could be an actress.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did you have to sing and dance for that part?

[Denny Gordon]

I had to sing and dance, yeah. I had to sing and dance. It was super fun, but I was kind of terrible. You know, we were doing, like, you know, old melodramas and stuff like that. Like, if you stuck with it for the very long, you would develop, you know, all these loathsome habits. You had to get out fast.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, second question. Do you speak any other languages?

[Denny Gordon]

I do, I do. But, like, one I don't even know how to use, which is German. I speak German. I was very lucky in my grammar school that there was this extraordinary woman that started offering German to us in fourth grade. So I took it and then got to high school and thought, well, I'll just keep this up. And then got to college and thought, oh, I'll just keep this up. And finally, like, when I was scratching around in New York trying to get arrested, I got a job translating. So it was a useful side hustle, but German. And if you get me really drunk, I can sing downtown in German.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really? Do we have. Do we have any booze?

[Denny Gordon]

Later. Wear some booze. Later.

[Angela Kinsey]

Later. All right, next question. What's a place you've been to that you absolutely loved?

[Denny Gordon]

There's so many, you know, I work mostly internationally these days. There's so many. It would have to be Italy. And I think I would say Portofino. Just beautiful blue, blue ocean water, of course, incredible food, and just sort of this rare little village hanging on the side of a cliff. And I remember being there with my husband, and we were just getting. We were just falling in love. It just seems so idyllic. I love to go back there in my mind. Portofino, Italy, people.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oof.

[Jenna Fischer]

Question number four. What do you like to do on the weekend?

[Denny Gordon]

I love to watch old movies. I've got four books going at once, usually. And one of the nights, Friday, Saturday or Sunday, I just love to have a bunch of friends over and cook. That's my favorite, favorite thing. Love to cook. And I live part time in LA and part time on an island on Orcas island up in Washington State. Which, by the way, I had turned Ken and Marissa onto. And so I see them all the time. They were at my son's wedding a year ago. We see each other all the time.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's wonderful.

[Denny Gordon]

Can you imagine that? I get to have Ken Kwapas in my life forever now. So amazing. So yeah, cooking most of the time on weekends. The joyous things are, you know, up there gathering a tribe.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is your go to meal or what do you love to cook? What's your signature?

[Denny Gordon]

I'm pretty famous for my garlic chicken. I take a chicken, I stuff it full of rosemary, and then I spread garlic all around the outside and in the inside. And the secret is Maldon sea salt flakes to kind of keep it juicy. You make a crust of salt that is a perennial. That's a perennial. Love to make that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love it. I love that. You're also kind of famous for it. You're known in circles.

[Denny Gordon]

Some of my friends will literally call me up and said, you're not invited, but I really need your chicken. Can you bring one over?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, the last this Cole sheet question is number five. What is your favorite midnight snack?

[Denny Gordon]

Well, it's so wicked, of course, but it's ice cream. It's ice cream. And I've learned like, I can't have it in the refrigerator. If I have it, it's gonna go. It's gonna be the midnight snack and I'm gonna go eat the whole frickin tub.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's the flavor that does you in?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh, God, it's chocolate. It's almost always chocolate oriented, but maybe with some caramel or some nuts, it's like, oh, it's my downfall. It's my downfall. I guess we all have them, but I've learned if I want to stay slender, which is like, that was years ago. What am I talking about? But no ice cream. Don't keep any ice cream in the refrigerator. Get it out, make somebody else eat it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Aw, Denny, this was wonderful. Is there anything that we failed to ask you or that you would like to share before we go?

[Denny Gordon]

Oh my God, it was such a great talk. You guys made it so easy. I just want to say one moment that I love from Boys and girls is when Jim comes back upstairs and he says, why did it go? And you said, we watched a video about our changing body.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. That's such a good joke.

[Denny Gordon]

It was so classic. No, I think we. I think we covered everything. All our favorite moments. It was just joyous to walk down memory lane with you guys. Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. So much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, a big thank you to Denny for joining us in the studio. And before we go, we did wanna mention a couple of extra little scenes in the Superfan episode that we just loved.

[Angela Kinsey]

So many fantastic, tiny moments. There are such gems. Like there's a whole Toby runner. Cause, you know, he doesn't go down into the warehouse. So the camera kind of checks in on him throughout the day, and he's reading the paper. He's juggling. At one point, he's full on taking a nap. Like, he's put chairs together and made a little bed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And there's a lot of extra stuff that happens both in the conference room with Jan, but also down in the warehouse. We talked a little bit about it with Denny. There's this great moment at the end where all the guys realize that they have been unloading a truck that was meant for delivery. Yes. It's so fun. And we also talked a little bit about our other favorite moment, which are these two tags at the very end of the episode with Lonnie and Madge.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So Lonnie is Saran wrapping a big group of boxes, and the camera crew is filming him. And then that moment follows Madge pushing a cart. They cracked us up. Let's hear him. Why are you even filming this? I'm walking. Let's see how interesting I can make this. How's that? Is that getting better? How about that one? I turn the corner, I pretend I a race car sometime.

[Denny Gordon]

And I'm fat.

[Angela Kinsey]

So sometime I got to take a breath.

[BJ Novak]

What?

[Denny Gordon]

Don't take me.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm wanted in three states. She's wanted in three states.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, it's just great when I see those moments. That is when I really super appreciate those bigger episodes because we had so many funny people on the show, and bits like that would get cut for time. So I love that there's a place for them to live.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, thank you so much for everyone for listening. We love doing this podcast so much, and we're just so thankful for days like today.

[Jenna Fischer]

We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bebekow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is mixed and matched by Chris Basil.

[Angela Kinsey]

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