Second Drink: Booze Cruise with Greg Daniels

Summary

Office Ladies Podcast Summary: "Second Drink: Booze Cruise with Greg Daniels"

In the "Second Drink: Booze Cruise with Greg Daniels" episode of Office Ladies, hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey dive deep into the beloved The Office episode titled "Booze Cruise." Released on February 24, 2025, this episode not only dissects the narrative and character developments but also unveils exclusive behind-the-scenes insights, particularly with the participation of The Office creator, Greg Daniels.

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Episode Overview

Jenna Fischer begins the discussion with a concise summary of the episode:

“Michael takes the Office on a booze cruise of Lake Wallenpaupack, exploiting a loophole by labeling it as a leadership training exercise to secure corporate funding.” (08:26)

This sets the stage for a deeper exploration of the episode’s themes, character dynamics, and pivotal moments that have endeared it to fans.

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Guest Stars and Their Impact

The episode features notable guest appearances that significantly enhance the storyline:

• Amy Adams as Katie: This marks Amy Adams' third and final appearance on the show. Prior to her acclaimed role in Junebug, Adams brings charisma and depth to Katie, Michael’s potential love interest.

  “Amy Adams was a hardworking actress with an electric presence. Her humility and kindness made her an instant favorite on set.” (11:34)

• Rob Riggle as Captain Jack Riggs: A real Marine Corps veteran, Riggle embodies the authoritative and disciplined Captain Jack, creating a compelling foil to Michael’s chaotic leadership.

  “Rob Riggle’s authentic military bearing added a layer of realism to Captain Jack, making the dynamic between him and Michael both humorous and believable.” (13:10)

• Brenda Withers as Brenda: Serving as the corporate liaison, Brenda’s presence ensures that Michael’s antics stay under corporate scrutiny, adding tension and comedic relief.

  “Brenda’s constant presence with a beer in hand became a running gag, highlighting the thin line Michael treads between fun and professionalism.” (17:05)

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Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fischer share numerous anecdotes that shed light on the production process:

• Becoming Series Regulars: During the filming of "Booze Cruise," both hosts received exciting news about their transition to series regulars, providing them with job security and solidifying their roles within the show.

  “We were on the boat when we got the call that NBC wanted us as series regulars. We were ecstatic, jumping up and down like two school girls.” (09:48)

• Rob Riggle’s Experience: Riggle recounts his challenging yet exhilarating time on set, especially dealing with freezing waters during night shoots in Rainbow Harbor.

  “Jumping into the freezing water was one of the most exhilarating and chilling experiences I've ever had.” (05:58)

• Seasickness and Production Challenges: The cast endured long hours on a moving boat, battling seasickness and the physical strain of location shooting.

  “Filming from late afternoon until sunrise was intense. You could feel the boat’s motion even when docked.” (19:38)

• Ad-libbing and Improvisation: Many memorable moments, such as the 27 seconds of silence between Jim and Pam, emerged from spontaneous interactions rather than strict script adherence.

  “The 27 seconds of silence were raw and unplanned, capturing the genuine tension and unspoken feelings between Jim and Pam.” (64:57)

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Key Scenes and Their Significance

Several scenes from "Booze Cruise" stand out for their emotional depth and comedic timing:

• Jim and Pam’s Unspoken Feelings: The moment where Jim contemplates saving Pam during an imagined emergency leads to a poignant silence that has become iconic among fans.

  “The 27 seconds of silence between Jim and Pam may hold the record for the longest moment in a comedy, capturing their unspoken emotions perfectly.” (27:00)

• Michael’s Inspirational Speech: Drawing inspiration from Winston Churchill, Michael’s heartfelt speech aims to inspire Jim, intertwining humor with genuine sentiment.

  “I cribbed Winston Churchill’s ‘never give up’ line for Michael’s speech, adding a nerdy yet inspiring touch to his character.” (31:29)

• Phyllis' Breakdown: Phyllis’ struggle to pronounce “drown” adds a layer of vulnerability to her character, balancing the episode’s comedic elements with emotional depth.

  “Phyllis couldn't get the word 'drown' out of her head, breaking character multiple times and adding a heartfelt moment to the scene.” (45:25)

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Production Techniques and Editing

Greg Daniels discusses the distinctive production style of The Office, emphasizing its documentary-like feel that relies heavily on natural interactions and minimal scripting.

• Camera Movements: The seamless zoom-ins and pans were often the result of happy accidents and intuitive direction rather than strict planning.

  “Our approach was more about the Theory of Natural Selection; we let the camera find the story organically, leading to authentic and spontaneous moments.” (77:30)

• Editing Process: With extensive footage, editors played a crucial role in shaping the final narrative, often making tough decisions on what to keep or discard to maintain the show’s integrity.

  “Our editors were phenomenal, turning hours of footage into cohesive and engaging episodes, often adding layers of story that weren’t in the original script.” (78:47)

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

Throughout the episode, several memorable quotes highlight key moments and sentiments:

• Angela on Quince:

  “Here’s the thing we like about Quince. It has a range of high-quality items at prices within reach.” (00:00)

• Greg Daniels on Adapting The Office:

  “I wanted to move network comedy in a new direction, embracing single-camera and eliminating the laugh track to capture realism.” (30:07)

• Angela on Seasickness Remedies:

  “Someone gave me something to chew on... an oil rubbed behind my ears that made me totally fine in minutes.” (51:00)

• Jenna on Michael’s Speech:

  “I took the 'never give up' line from Winston Churchill and cribbed it for Michael’s speech, adding a nerdy yet inspiring touch.” (31:29)

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Concluding Insights

The "Second Drink: Booze Cruise with Greg Daniels" episode offers fans a comprehensive look into one of The Office’s most cherished episodes. With firsthand accounts from Jenna, Angela, and Greg Daniels, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the intricate balance of humor, emotion, and authentic character interactions that define the show. From casting decisions and on-set challenges to the creative liberties that brought enduring moments to life, this episode serves as both a nostalgic trip and an informative deep dive into the making of The Office.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Angela Kinsey (00:00): “Here’s the thing we like about Quince. It has a range of high-quality items at prices within reach.”
• Jenna Fischer (08:26): “Michael takes the Office on a booze cruise of Lake Wallenpaupack, exploiting a loophole…”
• Greg Daniels (13:10): “Rob Riggle’s authentic military bearing added a layer of realism to Captain Jack…”
• Angela Kinsey (09:48): “We were on the boat when we got the call that NBC wanted us as series regulars.”
• Greg Daniels (31:29): “I cribbed Winston Churchill’s ‘never give up’ line for Michael’s speech…”
• Angela Kinsey (27:00): “The 27 seconds of silence between Jim and Pam may hold the record for the longest moment in a comedy.”

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting key discussions, behind-the-scenes stories, and memorable moments that fans of The Office will find both nostalgic and enlightening.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

So Jenna and I love Quince. You know, Quince is this wonderful website that has really affordable but high quality items. Here's the thing we like about Quince. It has a range of high quality items at prices within reach. I just got this set of towels that are really luxurious. I probably normally wouldn't have bought them, but they were such a great deal on Quince and now I have fancy towels that are so soft and cozy, like something out of a really nice hotel, but in my bathroom at home. The best part, all Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to you. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.comofficeladies for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E- dot com officeladies to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com officeladies so if you're a renter and you haven't heard of bilt, we're going to tell you about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

URL so they know we sent you. Join bilt.com officeladies to start earning points on your rent payments today. Grab your life preservers. Everyone get ready to set sail. Today we are taking a second drink of booze cruise.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was such a fun breakdown. Do you remember, Jenna? We had Greg Daniels in the studio with us for the whole thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was so excited. Remember, he was like, I have a time code.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it was his first time being on Office Ladies.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was very special and I felt like we covered this episode so well. We also wrote an entire Chapter about it in our book office BFFs with tons of behind the scenes pictures that we took. But I did find a couple of things that, that we could mention here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

First off, we talked about Mindy's play, Matt and Ben that she did with her friend Brenda Withers, who appears in this episode. This is what got Mindy discovered. And we got this comment from Christine A. Who said Googled Matt and Ben, Mindy Kaling. And the full show comes up on YouTube. Questionable legality, but it's there. So if you wanted to follow up and watch it. There you go. It's very grainy. But I also found a paperback version of the play on Amazon. Angela. Yes, it's been published and it has 4.7 stars out of five.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's very highly rated.

[Jenna Fischer]

Very highly rated. I think, you know, if you're an aspiring writer, maybe reading it would be like a good research or something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, another thing we talked a lot about was the Jim and Pam 27 seconds of silence.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

We recently got a letter from Caio from Brazil, Caillou, I hope I'm saying your name correctly. They write, the 27 seconds of silence in Booze Cruise may hold the record for the longest moment of silence in a comedy. But I was just watching the West Wing episode from season seven called Here Today, and I think that might take the cake. When Tony confesses to CJ that he leaked the space shuttle story. There is a whopping 56.9 seconds of silence between when CJ says they can't talk until the counsel's office shows up and when the lawyer finally does talk, Almost a full minute. That is wild.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, we did 27 seconds of silence. West Wing did almost a full minute.

[Angela Kinsey]

It makes me want to go watch that scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

Me too. Me too. There's gotta be so much playing out on their faces in that minute.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Thank you for writing in. I thought that was so interesting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, finally, Kaley K. Commented on this episode. Quote, I know the extra that jumped from the boat in Booze Cruise. His name is R.C. ormond and he's a stunt actor in Los Angeles.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's fantastic, Kaylee.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you so much. I found his credit. He is listed as Panicked man. And according to his bio, he has appeared as both an actor and stuntman in a wide range of productions from Transformers and the Time Machine to the TV miniseries the Fugitive. I liked this nugget from his bio. His first professional acting job was in the Batman stunt show at Six Flags Over Texas as a teenager.

[Angela Kinsey]

How about That I love those stunt shows.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's a really good one at Universal Studios.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Well, we went one step further and we reached out to RC because I wanted to ask him about that experience of jumping in the water. Yeah, here's what he said. He said, so what's really crazy to me is that we filmed that episode 20 years ago. @ the time, I was a big fan of the show. We filmed it in the middle of winter in Rainbow harbor in Long Beach. It was a night shoot, and by the time they got to my scene, it was about one in the morning. Yeah, that water was freezing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I bet.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said I was wearing a wetsuit under my clothes and it was still cold. He went on to share. I remember when we were setting up the scene, a lot of the background actors and even some of the series regulars started asking me questions like, hey, are you the stunt guy that's jumping off the boat? Is the water cold? Are you scared? Can you swim? All great questions. He said all that to say, if I had to narrow my experience down to one quote, this would be it. It was one of the coolest, most exhilarating and chilling experiences I've ever had.

[Angela Kinsey]

That describes all of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

If I had the opportunity to do it all over again, I totally would in a heartbeat. That's how much fun I had on that show. It was pretty awesome. And then he added, just to be clear, I hate cold water with the passion of a thousand suns, but to be blessed with the opportun to work on that show, I didn't even care. And he noted we got the shot in two takes, so he only had to do it twice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I just looked up the average temperature of Rainbow harbor in the winter. It's about 57 degrees.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's about what my cold dip is set on. That's cold.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's cold.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

And who knows what it is at midnight.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, Jenna, we also got a comment from CKfresh522, who wrote in to say there is footage of RC jumping in the water during your video blog at 3 minutes and 10 seconds.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. In the background.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, your whole video journal of our time on the Booze Cruise.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. Well, everyone, we hope you enjoyed these tidbits. Now please enjoy our breakdown of Booze Cruise. I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together, and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you each week.

[Angela Kinsey]

We will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office ladies. We're gonna booze it up today. It is the Booze Cruise episode. Everybody, are you ready to party? Written by Greg Daniels, directed by Ken Kwapus. Angela's been on a booze cruise in the Cayman Islands. Ooh. I've been on a booze cruise of Lake Ozark, Missouri.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's. That's the one I want to go on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. Live band, all of it. Very similar.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, let's get into this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's get into it. I will start with a summary. I feel like this episode doesn't need it, but I'm going to give one anyway. Michael takes the Office on a booze cruise of Lake Wallen. Paw pack. So corporate won't pay for any more parties. But Michael found a loophole. As long as he calls it a leadership training exercise that then corporate will endorse it. So that's what he does. But it's really just an excuse for a party.

[Angela Kinsey]

Michael loves a party.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, let's jump in with fast fact number one. Booze Cruise was the first episode to air on Thursday nights.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, this was NBC huge deal. This was a huge deal for us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Must See TV lineup. We were so giddy about this.

[Angela Kinsey]

We were so excited. I wrote a whole MySpace blog about it. I was so happy.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did too. Announcing our move to Thursday nights. Cause I don't know if people know, but we started on Tuesday nights at 9:30 and now we were moving to the Thursday Must See TV lineup.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was a coveted time slot, you guys. It's where Friends was. It was a big, big deal.

[Jenna Fischer]

It still is. It's still their big night of comedy. So we felt like we'd really made it. And also, this is a fan question from Sean Anaya. In episode two of the podcast, Angela mentioned that she and the other supporting cast members became series regulars during the Booze Cruise. Yes, Angela, how did that feel?

[Angela Kinsey]

It was such an exciting time, Jenna, because, like, you know, our agents called us and said, hey, they want to make you series regulars. We were all so, so excited. It also meant that maybe we wouldn't get fired.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, did that happen in the middle of filming Booze Cruise or at the beginning? What was the time?

[Angela Kinsey]

We were on the boat. I remember we were on the boat when I got the call saying that NBC would like for you to be series regulars and you're going to have like an extended Contract. You're not going to be a week to week day player.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

We were talking. We were also excited. The supporting cast, you and I, we had a break where we got to go off the boat, but we were standing right by the boat. Jenna, we're right by the boat. And I gave Oscar Nunez my camera and I said, oscar, I want you to capture this moment. You and I had been jumping up and down, holding hands, screaming because we were so excited.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you have that photo.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have the photo. And you and I look insane because we're tired. We're tired and we're mid jumping up in air holding hands like two school girls. And Oscar was like, oh, you two are so silly. And he gave us a big hug. But.

[Jenna Fischer]

But this was job security.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And this, yes. This was like. We all knew now, one, our show must be doing well because now they're going to pay us all to be here all the time.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And. And then we knew we had a job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Special. Special. I know things are starting to turn now. We've been talking about how we were really wondering week to week if we had jobs. And now we're starting to feel like, oh, we're on a TV show that going to keep coming back now. We still haven't been picked up for season three yet, but we know, okay, we at least have a job for like another 13 weeks at this point.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was the most job security any of us had had since the beginning of the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. All right, fast fact number two. Let's talk about our guest stars.

[Angela Kinsey]

Big, big guest stars.

[Jenna Fischer]

First up, this is the third and final appearance of Amy Adams as Katie. Now, I went back and I was looking at the timeline. She had not yet been nominated for her Academy Award for Junebug. That happened just a couple weeks after we finished filming this episode. But there was a ton of buzz.

[Angela Kinsey]

There was a lot of buzz that she was going to be an Oscar contender. And it was just so wonderful knowing her the way we did at this point and knowing that she had just been a hardworking actress. Some things had gone her way, some things hadn't. And to just sort of see this electricity around her. And she is just such a humble, sweet, kind person. You just can't help but root for her. And I remember being so happy for her and hopeful.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was seated next to her for pretty much most of the work in this episode. And we just became such good friends doing this. We shared so much about our lives and our hopes and our Dreams. And she was just a very open, warm, generous person. And then, you know, this boat was. No. No frills.

[Angela Kinsey]

No frills.

[Jenna Fischer]

No frills on this boat. Okay. Yeah. We were just sleeping on those benches between takes. And she was all in. Another big guest star from this episode is Rob Riggle as Captain Jack Riggs. All right, so a few facts about Rob in case people don't know. He is a real Marine Corps veteran. He joined the Marines in 1990 with the intention of becoming a naval aviat, but then he left to pursue comedy. Yeah, comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But he stayed a member of the Marine Corps Reserves until He retired in 2013 after 23 years of service. I mean, this is. He's the real deal.

[Angela Kinsey]

He is the real deal. And the man has such a heart for service.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do the softball game with him?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's one of the people.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's one of the people for Children's Mercy Hospital. And Rob is just an inspiration to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you guys out there might recognize him also from SNL or from the Daily show, where he played their military correspondent, or from, like, a gazillion movies, including Furry Vengeance with Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was in Furry Vengeance. And then you won't recognize him from a pilot he and I did called the Gabriels on Fox that never saw the light of day, where we played husband and wife. We had so much fun. I keep telling him, I'm like, rob, someday we're going to get to play husband and wife again.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I would love to see that. You guys would be great. Yeah. So you know him, your friend with him?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, we are pals. So I called him yesterday, and he's, like, the busiest guy ever. I was like, rob, where are you? Are you in Los Angeles? Because the last time I talked to him, he was in Scotland. Oh, he's, like, doing some really fun stuff. But I talked to him and I was like, rob, what do you remember about Captain Jack and the whole Booze Cruise episode? And this is what he said.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

He said, well, Ang, on a personal level, it was one of the first jobs I had after leaving Saturday Night Live. I was so nervous. I was really green, and I hadn't done much in front of a camera. I was scared, and I wanted to do a good job because I loved the show so much and the character was so much fun. He also said he really enjoyed that we shot on the water and that it was a night shoot. And he said, you know, Ange, I don't know if you remember this but no one could retreat to their trailers between scenes. You had nowhere to go. So we all hung out in that boat all night. We sat in the booths and hung out, and people would sort of booth hop between scenes. You would have people that were like, oh, let's go talk to John and Jenna and Amy Adams and David Denman. Oh, let's go talk to the counting, you know? And so he said it was so fun. We would booth hop and everyone would hang out. And I really felt like I got to know some people that night. The second thing he said was he felt really bad for Steve because Steve was shooting Evan Almighty all throughout the day, and then he would come over to our set and film throughout the night. But even though Steve was so tired, he was still kind and thoughtful and professional. And he said that Steve really became an inspiration for him for work ethic. Now, if you know Rob, you know he has an amazing work ethic, but he really saw that in Steve. Okay, so the third thing he said, and he was like, ang, this is going to haunt me. It's haunted me for 14 years.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

He said I had to say lake Wallen paw pack. And he said, ange, did you just hear how I said that? Lake wall and paw pack. I said it like, it just rolled off my tongue, like I grew up there. Yeah, he said I could not get it. He said, I don't even know if they had a usable take. He said, I must have messed it up 10 times in a row. He said I started sweating. I was so embarrassed. Oh, no. He said I could not say wall and paw pack. And he said when his, like, shoot was done and he was driving home, all he did on his drive home from Long beach, it was like a, you know, an hour and a half drive. As he was like, lake Walla Pop back. He said, I could say it with no problem in my car driving home. He said, but I could not say it in the take. And he said, and it's haunted me for 14 years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Rob, I love you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know Rob is fantastic, and I adore him. Thanks so much, Rob.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that was amazing. Good intel, Ange. So we have yet another guest star on this episode. Brenda Withers plays Brenda, the corporate liaison sent on the booze cruise to keep tabs on Michael. And there's some fun facts about Brenda.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's. Let's hear them.

[Jenna Fischer]

Brenda and Mindy Kaling were a writing team before the Office. They wrote and performed in an off Broadway play called Matt and Ben, which was about the friendship of Matt Damon. And Ben Affleck.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they played Matt and Ben.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, Brenda played Matt, and Mindy played Ben. It was set in 1995, and it tells the story of Matt and Ben before they were stars in their apartment fantasizing about being famous. It was a huge hit. It was a smash, critical hit.

[Angela Kinsey]

I would have seen that.

[Jenna Fischer]

I looked up the New York Times review, and it was just glowing. And this really put them on the map. And it's. It's definitely what got Mindy noticed. We haven't even talked about this.

[Angela Kinsey]

We haven't even mentioned who's coming on the show today.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. I was just about to let it roll off my tongue as if we had announced it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I thought about it, too, and I was like, wait, we didn't even say, you guys. We have an amazingly huge awesome. The guest of all guests is on today.

[Jenna Fischer]

Greg Daniels, the creator of the show, is coming on the episode today.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's gonna be here any minute, is gonna sit with us. We're. We are a little giddy, as you can tell. We're super giddy. And I believe he went and saw this show and that's how he discovered Mindy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, we'll have to. We'll ask him.

[Angela Kinsey]

We'll ask him because he'll be here.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he's gonna be here. Yes, that's right. Greg Daniels, showrunner of the Office and writer of this episode, will be joining us. That's hilarious. Why did we not lead with that? Talk about burying the lead?

[Angela Kinsey]

I think we're just so excited. I know I'm watching the clock because he's gonna be here soon. So I was like, oh, let's get fast facts done, because then Greg's going to be here.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, just get fast Facts done. Hey, now, hurry up and get your fast facts done.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a good tidbit for fast. No, I'm kidding.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm kidding. All right, well, let's finish with these fast facts so that Greg can get in here fast. Fact number three. We shot on location, guys. On a boat. On a boat.

[Angela Kinsey]

On a boat.

[Jenna Fischer]

This was outside of the Long beach harbor, which is about 45 minutes south of Los Angeles. We shot there for three days. Now, for two of the days, we filmed while the boat was docked. And then there was one night when we were moving because we were in Long beach and they put us up at a hotel. I had these grand fantasies that we were going to be all hanging out back at the hotel and, like, kind of partying or something. I don't know. I, like, have this idea. I never really been on location before.

[Angela Kinsey]

We never even saw the hotel. Literally, we were on the boat all night, and we would go to the hotel and maybe sleep a few hours, and then we'd go right back.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have no memory of the hotel. No. Yeah, I. I did bring poker chips, thinking that we would hang out at the hotel and play poker, but it never happened. We actually filmed from, like, late afternoon overnight until the sun came up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I wrote in my journal that we filmed from 2:30pm and usually wrapped around 5am and I wrote I felt the motion of that boat all week. The next week, I would be in line at the grocery store and realize I was swaying.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. It was intense because even when the boat wasn't moving, you're still on water.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, yeah, even I actually think it's worse when you're just docked because then it's like doing this weird, like, kind of thing. And when you're moving, you know, it's better. It's like a forward motion, but that kind of rocking against the dock for days on it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. It's bringing back memories.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have some fantastic photos from this episode because I brought my camera, my old school camera. I already mentioned, we got a photo when I found out I was series regular, but I had it on the boat with me the whole time. So I have. I have so many. I was looking at all my office photos, all my memorabilia, and Booze Cruise is a huge chunk of photos.

[Jenna Fischer]

I brought my camcorder. Back then, we didn't have iPhones on this boat, but I had a little camcorder and I filmed all of us behind the scenes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember this.

[Jenna Fischer]

A documentary of Booze Cruise, which you can find on YouTube. If you go on YouTube and like, Jenna Fisher Booze Cruise documentary, it'll pop up. It's amazing. I interviewed crew members, I asked them what they did, and it's very funny because you see us getting on the boat. Dave Rogers, our editor, I gave him all the footage and he put together this video. You see us all getting on the boat. We're like, yeah, the Booze Cruise. And then the first night, we're like, yeah, Booze Cruise. We're still. We're doing it. We're doing it. Like, by the third night, no one will speak to me, but you definitely see the progression.

[Angela Kinsey]

I watched the whole thing, and it just made me smile. I just. Man, it just brought me right back. And we also look 12 years old.

[Jenna Fischer]

We do.

[Angela Kinsey]

We Just look. So I was like, oh, man. Time has marched on across my face.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was like, wow, we look so young.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that's all I've got. Should we go get Greg and bring him in here and break down this episode?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, because I have a ton of note cards.

[Jenna Fischer]

You really do?

[Angela Kinsey]

I really do.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela guys got here early because.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because I had so many note cards.

[Jenna Fischer]

She had so many note cards that she was like, I. I came in and I was shocked. I said, what is this? Here it is, though. All right, well, let's do it.

[Angela Kinsey]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, you often hear about, like, the red flags to look for in a relationship, but what if. What if we, like, changed that focus and started making a list of the green flags that we were looking for in friends and partners? You know, like, more like, instead of framing it, here's what I'm avoiding. Be like, here's what I want to run toward.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

And you know, BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide, you can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

And just like that, a State Farm agent will be there to help you choose the coverage you need. No matter where you are in life, when you need coverage options, your State Farm agent is there to help. On the phone or in person.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, guys, we're back from our break, and we are sitting here with Greg Daniels.

[C]

Yay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Writer of Booze Cruise, showrunner of the Office. Greg, thank you so much for coming in.

[C]

Well, thank you so much for inviting me. I love your show. You guys are so good together. It's so entertaining to hear you, and it's so fun for me to hear your voices and your points of view and everything.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

If not for you, Greg, we would not be best friends, and this show wouldn't exist.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our lives would be completely. I. I don't even know. I can't even put it into words, honestly, because now I'll get emotional. Here I go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angel's crying already.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't. Sorry. It just all kind of hit me.

[C]

You know how Jim says he'll bet a paycheck that Michael in this episode is gonna do the Titanic thing?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

I would have said Angela was gonna tear up.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it happened already.

[C]

It happened so soon.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I'm sorry. I just. It just all, like, the wave hit me of just gratitude. I have for you, just absolute gratitude in my heart.

[C]

Likewise.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. It was a great time for all of us. And if your friendship was the only thing that came out of it, that would be cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

And yet it's not, is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Greg, when we have guests, we always like to start with asking them how did they end up being on the Office? How did you end up developing the Office for American television?

[C]

I will go back a little ways because I was kind of already with a career at the time that the show started.

[Angela Kinsey]

You had a very successful career, Greg. I mean, you had done King. I won't list your IMDb, but you were the real deal.

[C]

Go ahead. I don't know it enough.

[Jenna Fischer]

You created King of the Hill and you were running that show, but you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Had written on Saturday Night Live and Simpsons, the Simpsons Forever. And, oh, my gosh, there's that one song that you wrote on the Simpsons that is just amazing. Anyway, okay, okay.

[C]

Who needs a Quickie Mart?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[C]

Who needs yes. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. So you were the real deal. It was. Things were cooking, so.

[C]

Yeah, so I was in a good position. You know how they say, like, you need 10,000 hours to be good at something?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[C]

So I had sort of 10,000 hours on the Simpsons and Saturday Night Live, and then I had another, like, 15,000 hours on King of the Hill. So I was like, prepared. And what happened was my agent sent me the tape of the Office and it was pretty unknown over here and it had a pretty boring title and I didn't watch it.

[Angela Kinsey]

The BBC version.

[C]

The BBC version, yes. And so he called me. It was over Christmas, like, two years before our show came out. And he said, all right, I'm going to send this to somebody else if you don't watch it. And I was like, oh, okay, hang on, hang on. I'll watch it tonight. And I put it in around 11. And I stayed up till, like, three in the morning watching it. I thought it was just brilliant. So, you know, I called and I said, I really want to meet these guys. And I had been kind of like a good little student, you know, always in my career. And I always wanted to interact with people who I respected. And, you know, I sold the episode to Seinfeld so I could work with Larry David. And that was like a career important move for me. And I kind of identified that Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant had done something that put them in the top ranks of people working in this profession. So I really wanted to meet them, and I didn't really think it could be adapted. So I was kind of scamming them. I was like, I'm going to go meet you and make this interesting, take your knowledge from you, ask you questions.

[Jenna Fischer]

Build a relationship, maybe for something in the future. You never know.

[C]

It's not going to be this. And anyway, so we met over at Ben Silverman's office because he had the rights, and we got along very well because it turned out that they loved American tv and specifically the Simpsons, and specifically their favorite episode, or Ricky's favorite episode was Homer Badman, which I had written. And so we kind of hit it off.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's amazing.

[C]

And I was telling them, you know, all the kind of theories that I had about making a TV show that I put into place in King of the Hill, which was, you know, a slower pace and allowing for awkwardness and realism and all this stuff. And it was. They really responded to that. So we decided, well, maybe I would be the person to adapt it into America. And then there was a couple of, you know, months where we were kind of hammering it out. And. But it was always, the thought was always to bring it to someplace cool and cable y. Because the show was not like what was on tv. You know, I think the biggest show at the time was Will and Grace, which was very kind of multi camera.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fastest, far more broad.

[C]

Yeah. Very different feel, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. It didn't have a network feel of, like, television.

[C]

Yeah, it felt weird. And so we were talking about, well, maybe we'll go to hbo. And. And apparently Kevin Riley at FX really likes it. And so we had a couple of thoughts. And anyway, so I signed on to do it, and then Kevin Reilly left FX and went to NBC and HBO didn't want to do it because they didn't want to do a remake. And Ben was like, you got to sell this to NBC. And then I got very worried because I was like, this is not going to work on NBC.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're like, this isn't what I signed up for. Cool cable show.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. And I also had these stress dreams where I would be put on trial by all the comedy nerds in the world for doing this lousy NBC version of the Office. But eventually we were like, well, maybe the value of it will be to move network comedy into a new direction, maybe open it up just a little bit and make it more like what I liked about animation, which was single camera and didn't have a laugh track and stuff like that. So I was like, okay. I kind of convinced myself it was worth doing just for that.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it ushered in this whole new type of American television completely.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, well, let's get into Boo's cruise.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, let's do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jenna, what was the inspiration for this episode?

[C]

You know, one of the things we were doing was we were looking for classic office situations and trying to test them for was there comic potential. And the idea of going on a booze cruise sounded funny. And this was like our biggest episode yet. You know, this was where we were kind of feeling some oats as a show. And if you remember, they bought a whole bunch of hotel rooms for everybody. And this was sort of going to be like the new thing. We were maybe going to have more location shooting and it was very exciting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Speaking of the booze cruise, when we were on the boat, I remember I was standing next to you and I had told you that I had been on a booze cruise and I had done a snorkel shot. Like, when we were talking about that.

[C]

After, did we roll with that right away from that.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no. We were so. I think we read. We had the table read. We read the script, and I went up to you and I was like, this is great. I said, you know, I went on one of these, and it is. It gets crazy. I mean, there were snorkel shots, and you're like, snorkel shots? And you're like, okay, I want to talk to you more about snorkel shots. And then you kind of went off, and we were like, just like you were busy with the episode. It was a very big episode. And then we were on the boat, and I think you had mentioned it to Phil Shea, and so he had snorkels. And I just remember all of a sudden I was, like, talking to Brian and Oscar and I heard, angela, Angela, get over here. And it was you. And you're like, get over here. Talk to them about snorkel shots. I was like, oh, okay, you pour it at the top. But, you know, and so we sort of had this quick snorkel shot tutorial, and then it made it in the episode.

[C]

That's great. But it was just about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was just so fun. I always. We talk about this a lot, how you were so open to, like, in the moment, like, collaboration and getting people's ideas, and it made for such a fun, awesome work environment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, completely.

[C]

I love that work that you guys did. Because, you know, part of the thing that I wanted to do with the show was, like, the experiences that I'd had that I didn't like in show business were mostly like, Factory made tv, where they keep the writers over here and the actors are over here and nobody talks to each other, and they got to get the scripts out fast. And it didn't feel very creative. And I really wanted to mix it all and have a more handmade feel to it. And so I had, you know, I had a lot of the writers act, and I would ask the. Some of the actors to write. And I always love to get access to the kind of actor prepares work that you guys did, you know, And I would hop on any great ad lib. Like, that whole thing with Rain being Amish just came out of an ad lib, if you remember where he was talking about his grandfather's name and he said, dwight, Shrewd Amish. And then we were like, ooh.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then you just ran with it.

[C]

Yeah, that sounded fun. I also remember in the casting process, like, I, you know, we. We initially wanted Steve, and then he took that other show, Come to Papa, before Allison Jones came on Board. I don't know if you know that.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[C]

Yeah, so we had heard, Ben had specifically heard about how cool, great Steve was in Bruce Almighty. And he really had that amazing sort of scene stealing moment where he's speaking in tongues as the newscaster.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[C]

And everybody knew he was really great and would be a good choice for this. And I'm very methodical, as you know. And I was like, okay, that sounds great. First, I want to get the casting director on board. And I really wanted to use Alison Jones from her work on Freaks and Geeks, which I loved. And it took two weeks to get her on board. And in those two weeks, Steve took this other show and we were like, ah, you know, it might have been.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that.

[C]

Yeah, it was awful. So then we went on this incredibly long process of looking at every single person in town who could possibly be in the age range for Michael Scott and including various writer friends that I had who I threw into the mix and, you know, just normal people. Like, I'd be walking down the street, go, oh, you look good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Read this.

[C]

Yeah. But anyway, it came full circle. And then after three months of intense casting, we got a little tip off from Kevin Riley that maybe Come to Papa wasn't going to go the distance and we could get Steve in second position to that other show and we'd be safe.

[Jenna Fischer]

And so let's get into Boo's cruise.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

No card.

[C]

No card.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, okay. I have no cards.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm saying no card.

[C]

No card.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, wait, Greg has a no card.

[C]

No card. Minute 45.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes, yes.

[C]

An early one. I believe Kevin is packing a Speedo.

[Angela Kinsey]

A metallic blue Speedo. And lots of condoms.

[C]

And condoms.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, and lots of condoms. He's also. We have a great Jim, Pam talking head. A joint talking head, which I know was really fun for you guys to do. Right before that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Where we're reading the memo from Michael that he has sent around telling us to prepare for a surprise outing. He tells us to pack a toothbrush, a swimsuit, a ski mask, and wear your rubber soled shoes. I love how delighted Pam is by Jim and this talking head. And also at 1 minute 53 seconds, please notice the winter Scranton backdrop outside of the window of our talking head. We would change those backdrops seasonally. They were. We had a springtime one. We had a summer and a winter. So this was our winter backdoor drop out the window.

[C]

January on Lake Wallen Pop.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Stanley's like a booze cruise in January.

[Jenna Fischer]

And also on that note, like we said, we are jumping ahead, but at 6 minutes 45 seconds, when Kevin is walking down the ramp to get on the boat, he is wearing a ski mask. There you see a man in a ski mask.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Jenna, you're right.

[Jenna Fischer]

He followed the memo to a T. Wait, okay, wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now wait. We do have to give our background people who love the background stuff in the cold open. What all is in the vending machine?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes, the cold open. Jim puts Dwight's stuff in the vending machine. Pam buys Dwight's pencil cup, which is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Letter H is the metal pencil cup. Someone did a deep dive. G is Dwight's desk nameplate. FF is a picture frame of Rain's actual family.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Fan question. Hannah Watkins asks, there is a framed picture in the vending machine. Is that a real photo from Rainn's childhood? It is a photo of Rain's aunt and uncle and nephew. Yes.

[C]

Rain had brought in, I remember a family photo album of sort of country cousins of his that lived in Oregon, I think. And that was part of what he was drawing from for Dwight for his character. I think we put it in a frame.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's perfect.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good. HH was a stapler. I was Mike. Greg, I might say this wrong. Mike Lieberthal. It was a bobblehead of a Phillies baseball coach. I don't know.

[C]

Well, that's something that you shouldn't really go to me for, I'll tell you that right now. There was, I mean, Phil Shea, who was a brilliant prop master on our show for the whole time of the show, used to go to Scranton and return with truckloads of tchotchkes from the different businesses and giveaway pens and local sports figure bobbleheads and stuff. And I think that was on the Penguins, maybe.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, he was a Phillies.

[C]

He's a Phillies.

[Angela Kinsey]

I looked him up. I googled him. Mike Lieberthal. He was a Philadelphia Phillies catcher on their baseball team. And then also letter J is Dwight's wallet.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And Jim gives Dwight a bag of nickels to get all his stuff back, which I love that detail. So then we go to the scene where Stanley goes into Michael's office to find out if they will be spending the night. And Michael is so coy and just loves that nobody knows where they're going. And Stanley says, should my wife tell her boss she's not coming in tomorrow?

[Angela Kinsey]

And he's like, Stanley, Bo family. Banana and Anna family, me, my mom and Lee. Stanley, like, he can't of course, Stanley can't get anything out because Michael's interrupting him with his ridiculous, like, song.

[C]

Well, that was also, like, an early season running joke, was him changing people's names. He did it to Pam constantly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Seems like we kind of dropped that after a few years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he didn't really do that to people anymore. All right, so we move into the conference room where Michael finally reveals to everyone that they're going on a booze cruise of Lake Wall and Paw Pack. I became obsessed with the question personally, do they really have booze cruises of Lake Wallen Palmpack? Yes and no. I did a deep dive on the Internet.

[C]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

So what they mostly have are pontoon boat tours, open aired tours, where a guide tells you about the scenery.

[C]

Well, that boat, the real boat that we filmed on was a boat from Long beach harbor and was big metal boat. I can't picture how it would have gotten to Lake Wall and Paw Pack, which is, you know. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, I did a little bit of a deep dive. I think they have, like, a motor.

[Jenna Fischer]

Restriction law on Lake Wall and Paw Pack.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So, like, you can only have, like. I don't think our boat size would be permitted.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, supposedly they do have a dinner cruise, so if you're in the area, you can look that up. I'm sure there's beer and wine. I mean, I'm not sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

But wait, can we. Okay. In the conference room scene, first of all, these are some of my favorite scenes because Michael has something he so desperately is trying to say, and then we just keep interrupting him.

[C]

I went and looked at the first draft of the episode, and there is a scene that was in the first draft where Brenda, the person from corporate, tells Michael that she hears he's planning this booze cruise. And she tells him that Corporate won't pay for it unless it has a certain amount of educational content. And he panics because he hadn't prepared anything. And then we go into the conference room scene, and he's trying to make up stuff off the top of his head.

[Angela Kinsey]

Leadership. So it's the pause. It's all about the pause. But we had a very hard time keeping a straight face in the scene, as we often did in conference room scenes. And I caught a few people breaking Mindy. Mindy at 3 minutes, 41 seconds when.

[Jenna Fischer]

She says, I took the tags off already. When she talking about her bathing suit, because, you know, Michael says, bring a bathing suit, and now she doesn't need one. Mindy puts her hand to her mouth. Yeah, and that's what she would do when she.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's her talent.

[C]

Mindy was an easy breaker, that's for sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

So easy. Her hair is half up, half down, half Kelly. We're tracking when Kelly is fully Mindy.

[C]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because, Greg, maybe you can shine some light on this. Mindy, the character of Kelly Kapoor started out as a very kind of, like, stuffy updo.

[Angela Kinsey]

Her hair was in a bun. She has, like, a paisley top on.

[Jenna Fischer]

With, like, all the way up to her neck.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like an ascot kind of thingy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And then she very slowly just turns into Mindy Kaling. Yes, basically. And now she's. Her hair has transitioned.

[C]

Well, this is a long campaign that Mindy waged behind the scenes taking, you know, and I know she plotted it, and everybody. Every step was a victory. And a lot of it would be. We'd kind of do a double take and go, hey, wait, what? What are you wearing?

[Angela Kinsey]

And she would have Sly.

[C]

She would have slipped something in. Yeah. And she kind of hijacked that character and made it into her character.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we are enjoying watching the slow evolution of this. It's been really fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I think her hair has now transformed. We're waiting for her wardrobe to transform. And also we're waiting for the first Beyonce reference, which has not happened yet.

[C]

Well, Brenda, also. I don't know. This is maybe. Is this a fast fact? Fast fact.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did discuss Brenda in Fast Facts, but we were going to come to you and ask you for your input about Brenda.

[C]

Well, Brenda was Mindy's writing and performance partner in the play. That is how I cast Mindy, because Mindy wrote this off Broadway play called Matt and Ben about Matt Damon and Ben Affleck writing Good Will Hunting. And Mindy played Ben Affleck, and Brenda, who's in Booze Cruise, played Matt Damon. And it was a hilarious play.

[Angela Kinsey]

You went and saw it?

[C]

Yes, I went and saw it.

[Jenna Fischer]

By accident or on purpose?

[C]

No, I was actually. I was a guest of my wife, Suzanne Daniels, who was a network executive, possibly at the WB at that time. I'm not exactly sure where she was working, and she went to see it to do talent scouting, and I.

[Angela Kinsey]

You went with her.

[C]

That was super funny. Yeah. And it was great. And then by coincidence, Mindy's spec script came in, like, the next day for me to read for staffing, for writers, and I was like, hey, wait, that's the one I just saw on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Amazing.

[C]

Yeah, amazing. Terrific.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

I would have loved to seen that. So now we have Brenda, and she's like the corporate Person. You guys, I just have to point out something about Brenda. I know we're not on the boat yet, but Brenda drinks the whole boat ride. She's there to check in on Michael. She has a beer in her hand. You look. Look at her scenes on the boat. She has a beer the whole time.

[C]

She'S at the bar. I mean, he only sees her when she's at the bar. Pretty much.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pretty much. Or she walks up with a beer, like to check in on him. Wait, before we get out of the conference room scene, Phyllis broke so hard. Do you remember this?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. So Michael has said that the sales team could be. Is like the furnace of the ship because it keeps.

[Jenna Fischer]

Keeps things moving along.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

He compares them to the people from Titanic.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right, titanic. And at 5 minutes, 20 seconds, Phyllis has to put her head down because she starts laughing because she says she asked what the furnace does. And then at 5 minutes, 50 seconds, she says everyone in the engine room drown. Do you remember that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

She could not get out the word drown. Like, she couldn't. She just broke every time. And you can see her, like, starting to break.

[Jenna Fischer]

That would. That made me break on the day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

What so sadly realized that everyone in.

[Angela Kinsey]

The engine room drowned but Michael. Everyone drew. Well, now let's. We have to have the moment. Everyone gets on the boat. We've left the conference room.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're jumping around a little. At 6 minutes, 20 seconds, Michael says that Pam is Marianne. Katie and Jim are the professor and ginger. Angela's Mrs. Howell, Kelly's the native. Stanley is one of the Globetrotters. Michael is a skipper, and Dwight is Gilligan. And this begins the war between Captain Jack and Captain Michael.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I love that Michael has worn his captain hat to the booze cruise. He has it on in the booze cruise, and he still has it on. And now they're having their little power struggle. Who is going to be the boss of this trip? Captain Jack is clearly going to win. I mean, I feel like his boundary is very strong from the beginning.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very strong. And I want you to know we.

[Jenna Fischer]

Should say Captain Jack, played by Rob Riggle.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[C]

Was a marine.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was a marine.

[C]

Yes. So there's a lot of authenticity to Captain Jack's military bearing there.

[Jenna Fischer]

How did you find Rob?

[C]

Well, I mean, you know Rob.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right, I know Rob. We talked a little bit about it in one of our fast facts. But Rob wanted me to give you a message because I talked to him yesterday and he said, thank you so much. Also, he's Sorry that he couldn't say Lake Wallen. Pop.

[C]

Rob was in the Alison Jones orbit, and we certainly knew about him. And I don't know whether he came in for one of the other parts. Like he might have come in for Dwight or something. I'm not 100% sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did that happen sometimes? People who had come in for main cast members, you would ping them for a future episode?

[C]

Sure, yeah. I mean, I think Allison released some of the audition tapes as part of a DVD extra, but there were a lot of cool people that came in. It would have been very interesting to see Seth Rogen as Dwight, for instance.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, definitely. Or Kristen Wiig as Pam. Yeah, I think she came in to read Pam.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I think she's in my site on my. On my.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Katherine Hahn.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Allison Jones gave me my sign in Sheet Day, and Kathryn Hahn is on it. And Bob Odenkirk is on it.

[C]

Yeah, well, Bob was really the number two. If we didn't have Steve, it would have been Bob. He did a great job. And then in season nine, we brought him back as the sort of echo.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was so fantastic, too.

[C]

Yeah, he's great.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I have a lot of fan questions about the boat.

[C]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

So since we're getting on the boat, Casey Wright asked, was the boat really moving? And Sam Pellett asked how cold it was. The boat was really moving through the water for one of the days of shooting. The other two days, I believe it was docked and it was cold. It was December 2005, which was chilly, especially at night out on the water. A lot of people wondered, were you pretending to be that cold? I remember being cold.

[C]

Yes. There was a lot of pretending.

[Angela Kinsey]

Your cheeks are, like, bright pink in that scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[C]

So Lorne Michaels has a thing that he says sometimes where, like, he will get in character underwear for the actors and, yeah, I think this is it. And people will say, well, why? Who cares? It's not going to be on camera. And he goes, yes, but the actors know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I kind of get that. Yeah, I kind of get that.

[C]

And so we certainly believed in that and went out on this real boat in Long beach harbor. And it was this huge thing. And to me, the key of it was that romantic scene on the top deck between Pam and Jim. And, you know, I just thought it'd be so pretty up there with the twinkling lights of the harbor in the background and everything. So we do that scene, and later in the editing room, somebody was like, what'd you do? Did you just put a row of Christmas lights against a black piece of duvetyne there and do it in a studio.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we're like, no, we're on a boat. We're on an actual boat.

[C]

But it didn't really look that impressive when it came down. It was just this one little twinkle thing of lights on the horizon.

[Jenna Fischer]

We could have been on a soundstage.

[C]

Yeah. We could have been nice and toasty.

[Angela Kinsey]

And comfortable, but the wind was blowing, and I could. I don't know, I could tell you're on a boat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, one of the challenges of being on the boat was how sick everyone got. Greg, do you remember that?

[C]

We were all. Yeah, there was a lot of sickness.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I. I did not get seasick. But do you remember coming up to Kate Flannery and I and saying, hey, you guys, I want to get some B roll of people vomiting off the side of the boat. Craig, do you remember?

[C]

That would be something I would have done.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was like three in the morning, and you said. So you had Matt Sohn grab as many people as he could. And we had the choice of cream of mushroom or minestrone.

[C]

Oh, oh, right, right, right. Fake vomiting.

[Angela Kinsey]

The fake vomiting. The fake vomiting. And I did minestrone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, good choice.

[Angela Kinsey]

You had to take a swig of it and hold it in your mouth until action and then puke it. And the. I don't know, 5 to 10 seconds you held it in your mouth was the most horrible thing because you were just like. Like, trying not to gag. So I didn't puke for real, but I did fake puke.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I got really sick. So did David Denman. And I was wearing those wristbands.

[C]

Yes. We were trying to pass out boning, too, and stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, there was all. There were all these remedies, but nothing really works. Seasickness gum.

[Angela Kinsey]

Someone gave me something to chew on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Maybe the gum. Yeah, there's like a ginger gum. So at one point, the real captain of the boat heard that I was struggling. There were three captains. And then there was also there was Dwight steering the ship and a guy. And then a real guy. At one point, the real captain of the ship heard I was struggling, and he got out this oil that he rubbed behind my ears. And about 10 minutes later, I was totally fine.

[C]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I had written about this in my diary. I looked it up, and I found some on Amazon. Here's what's in it.

[C]

Here's where we turn this whole thing into an essential oils pitch podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

By the way, we're sponsored by. Yeah, sold by Jan. Jan's essential oils and candles. So here's what it has in it. Lavender, peppermint, chamomile, something called ylang ylang birch. And then it has frankincense and myrrh. That's the stuff that the wise men gave to Jesus. I know two of the things.

[C]

Very expensive stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, fancy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who knew? I didn't even. I mean, I know frankincense and myrrh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Are real, but I didn't know they were real. I mean, I just thought they were part of a Christmas song that's not real.

[Jenna Fischer]

But, like, what are they? I guess they are what you rub behind your ears when you're seasick.

[C]

It sounds like they just threw everything in the kitchen sink into this.

[Angela Kinsey]

The ylang ylang. I don't know. Ylang ylang ylang ylang.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so in the script, there was a scene, Greg, that as the boat is pulling away, Toby's car suddenly drives up. And he. And Michael yells at him from the ship, oh, come on, what's up? He's like, I'm sorry, there was an accident or there was traffic. And then Michael says, we're not going back. We're not going back for him. Just leave him. And then Paul turns to camera as Toby, and he kind of gives a little wink.

[C]

It's a big smile.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like he did it on purpose. But you can find that in the deleted scenes. We shot it. Yes, we shot it, and it was very nice. And that is why Toby is not on the boat. For anyone who was wondering, maybe we should just.

[C]

There's a lot of excuses for why Toby wouldn't be on things so that he could help out as a writer and producer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Toby and BJ and Mindy, like, they sat in the. You know, Mindy was in the annex, like, things like that.

[C]

I thought I was so clever in season one, making them actors so that they would have this experience of being actors. And then at some point in season two, I'm looking around and 50% of the writers are gone because they're on set. And I'm like, oh, what have I done?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. At 7 minutes, 55 seconds, Rob Riggle breaks. He totally breaks.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

We talked about it. It stayed in the shot. So Rob, as Captain Jack, is going over the safety features of the boat. And Michael really wants to hijack this speech and give it, and he can't. So he just starts doing, like, the flight attendant, like, pointing to the exit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Rob just breaks. He just starts laughing, but he just keeps going. And then rain as Dwight laughs And so it just sort of like. But it stays in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

But Rob was like, yeah, I just laughed, but I just kept talking through my laugh.

[C]

When Steve is doing his dancing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[C]

I remember, like, trying to build the reactions because everybody's supposed to be, like, unimpressed and just, you know, straight faced. And it was almost impossible because everybody was breaking. Made him do that over and over.

[Angela Kinsey]

And over again for so long. That's. I remember. I was. I remember when we rewatched it, I just wrote, oh, my gosh, Michael's dance. Because he danced for so long.

[C]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

In my journal I said that. We started taping that around 2am like, it was really late.

[C]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

A fan question from Tara Leichke. Was Steve stance choreographed?

[C]

I don't think so. I really think he improvised that. I don't remember it being in the script. I think he just kind of went for it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have the script at home for this episode and I read it and there is no direction for Michael's dance. In the script. It just says, pan over to see Michael doing a weird dance. Yeah, that's it. That was as much as. There was another fan question about the dance. Steve Dresser says, how many takes of that superb dance did it take to get Steve's full moves?

[C]

I'm gonna say about six, I think.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

What do you think? What do you remember?

[Jenna Fischer]

That seems about right. I can't remember when he started slapping his legs, if that was early on or later.

[C]

And the worm, I mean, they were different. I feel like there were different versions of the dance. And then we kind of made the highlight in the room.

[Jenna Fischer]

And there's on the deleted scenes. You can see even more of the dancing if you want to.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember when Ken finally was like, okay, cut. Steve was on the ground doing the last one.

[C]

Yeah, that was the last one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And he got up and everyone applauded for him. And, like, you guys came over and gave him a hug because he had really gone for.

[C]

It was exhausting. Yeah, he completely did. That was amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's a fan question. Was there music playing when Michael danced or was it added later? My memory is that it was added later.

[C]

I mean, I feel like what we often did was we would do one take with the music and then somebody would have a little earwig, you know, and they would say, do you want to do it with an earwig? And a lot of effort had gone into making a tiny invisible thing that could play the soundtrack. And then the actor would go, no, I don't need it. And then do the next five takes just for memory. That's how I feel like it probably went down. I do remember some fun facts about the band on Booze Cruise.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, we had a lot of questions about the band.

[C]

Yes, exactly. Because my friend Bob Thiel Jr. As you were pointing out on your card, who did our theme song was in the band. And three out of the four band people were the guys who played our theme song. Hall, Craigen and Dylan. Also Dylan O'Brien, who's a big songwriter in LA. And these guys were. Friend of mine. Friends of mine or Bob was. And the theme song for the Office was written by Jay Ferguson, but he sent over a version of it on synthesizer which was, you know, a little. It was great. It was obviously great song. Loved it, but it didn't sound. Didn't have the energy that you'd want. And so Bob had this kind of rock and band that he put together of his friends, and we went and recorded the theme song with all live instruments in a session.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that is so cool. I did not know that. Yeah, that is so cool.

[C]

And then he became, you know, then he called his band the Scrantones. And then he came to Scranton with us and would play at our parties often.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he was in the. I had a fan write in and say that he's also in Phyllis's wedding with Kevin in Scrantonicity.

[Jenna Fischer]

I had a fan as well. Vanessa McLoad said that she noticed that at least one of the band members shows up later in Scrantonicity at Phyllis's wedding.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's Bob.

[C]

Bob. You know, Bob also did music. The music for Sons of Anarchy and the Mayans. So he's quite talented.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's so talented. I have it 11 minutes, 14 seconds. This is really crazy. If you know these three people. Phyllis, Kevin and Angela are dancing together. Oh, what I'm telling you.

[C]

Isn't there a shot of Phyllis dancing with Creed at one point?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes, towards the end there is. They're dancing together, but we're doing that awkward dance where, like, I almost feel like in eighth grade where, like, a group of girls dance together, except it's me, Phyllis and Kevin, and we're just kind of doing a little sway like that. It's just very funny to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I don't know if you remember, Greg, but there was a runner. I read it in the script and then I went back and I saw it in the deleted scenes. There was this whole runner through this episode that Oscar is a really mean drunk.

[C]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

So on the cruise.

[C]

Yeah. I didn't like that. I reread the script too, and I was like, ooh, glad we didn't use this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where he's just. He's getting drunk and then he's going around and he's insulting all of you. So that is probably why Oscar is not dancing with you guys. And also later he's isolated himself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, later it's just Kevin and I in the booth.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, that's probably why, because Oscar's off, like, talking about you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I forgot about that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I want to go back to the scene with Jim, Katie, Pam, and Roy sitting around the table.

[C]

Great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Katie makes a comment where she says, ah, we're at the cool table. And then they all talk about what they were like in high school, except Jim. We don't hear about Jim, but we find out that Katie was a cheerleader and that Pam was artsy fartsy. Thanks, Roy. And that Roy played sports. And then Amy does her little cheer. Amy, as Katie, does her awesome cheer. And that was not in the script. We found out on the set that Amy Adams was a cheerleader and she knew a bunch of cheers and she did. You had her do little cheers for us to react to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Amy and I did a few cheers together. We were all really punchy, you guys. It was like three in the morning, you know.

[C]

So do you remember? Cause I remember when we were doing that scene and Amy started to do the cheerleader stuff, we did a couple of takes of it, and then Ken wanted to move on and something was bothering me and I didn't want to move on from that scene. And I realized that the balance. She kind of shifted the balance because Amy Adams, obviously very charismatic, you know, beautiful actress, and she did that really fun, cute cheerleader thing. And then we were going to move on, and I realized, like, Pam is just basically not participating on the same level here. She's kind of denying the cheerleader thing, but she isn't doing her own charismatic thing. And we went back and at 9:09, I went back to you and I said, you got to kick this up a notch. Do something. Do you remember that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you kind of mocked her cheerleader thing and you did that.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I was like, yeah, because that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was not in the script.

[C]

That wasn't.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was added in the moment. And that's. Yeah, I kind of. I kind of flirt with Jim there. We have a private moment at the table.

[Angela Kinsey]

I thought that was, like, so bold with Roy sitting next to you. Like, when I watched it again, I was like, wait, she's flirting with Jim, with Roy next to her, and also kind of making fun of Katie. Yeah, I was like, pam's having a moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think it was an important connection there, Greg, because it is certainly going to help give Jim the courage to do what he's going to attempt to do, which is tell Pam his feelings. I think without that little moment of them bonding over how ridiculous their significant others are being, it's like you need to see them as that bonded couple so it doesn't come so out of the blue that Jim would think this could be my moment.

[C]

Well, also, Pam really gives him an opening on the top of the boat there.

[Jenna Fischer]

She does, yeah.

[C]

That, to me, the Jim thing of it was she's engaged and he wants to be a good person and, you know, respect the fact that she's engaged. But he's also like, there's all these clues coming in that there could be something and he doesn't go for it. And it's very frustrating to watch.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so painful to watch, but also feels so honest because that's how you would be. You'd want to say everything and you wouldn't be able to.

[C]

Well, I remember, to me, that was probably one of the most personal and sort of raw things that I would have put into a script because it did not feel like a very, like, noble Jim, successful, social, social guy moment. It felt really like people are gonna hate him for this or disrespect him or whatever. So I kind of felt it was risky to put it out there. I don't know. It was very hard also in the edit to keep it that long.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, yeah, we talk about it.

[C]

The same length that you guys really did in the scene. And there was a lot of urge to, like, trim that up. That's an awful long time to have people not talk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, let's talk about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

So beautiful. It's so beautiful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Pam and Jim are on the deck of that boat, and Pam does give him an opening. She says, sometimes I just don't get Roy. And this is the first time we've seen her complain about Roy to Jim to disparage her relationship. Really. It's the first time she's verbalized it. I don't. I'm pretty sure. And then it is 27 seconds of silence. And a fan wrote in, Anthony Sneed said, what was the motivation behind that awkward silence?

[C]

There's a lot going on in those 27 seconds. Just because people aren't talking doesn't mean nothing's going on. And I think that you look at his face and, you know, you can see him trying out different things and thinking and being, you know, urged to go forward and blocked and, you know, and then I think also on your face, there's all this kind of, like, disappointment that he's not going to do anything. And face saving when you're like, well, I'm cold. And kind of. It was kind of good that it was cold, actually. And we really did shoot it out in the harbor because I think you wouldn't have been able to, like, your nose was red.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was cold.

[C]

Yeah. You were cold.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I believed it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, Greg, it wasn't in the script that there would be a big pause. It didn't say, there's a long, big pause.

[C]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

It just says that they look at each other. And then finally Pam says, yeah, but I remember on the day, you really encouraging us to take our time and don't be afraid to just look at each other.

[C]

Well, I mean, that was part of. I think what made the show so special was that and so different from what was on TV was that moments of behavior were really important. More so than jokes and setups and punchlines and lines and stuff. And I think that came out of appreciating what's good about a documentary. And documentaries just are all about finding the truth in what people are doing and leaning in. And no matter what they think they're doing or what they say they're doing, what do their actions show you that they're doing? And this was like a good, romantic example of it all being in between the lines and it all being on the faces and not in the script.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is so smartly said.

[Jenna Fischer]

You guys, should we talk about what else was going on during this scene?

[Angela Kinsey]

Do you mean when half of the cast got lost at sea?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. All right, so here's the deal. When we started this scene, I think we knew it was gonna take a while. And so they told the other cast members that they could leave for the day. But the only way to get off the boat. Because we weren't gonna take the boat back and dock it.

[Angela Kinsey]

No. There were these little dinghies that would pull up and you would get in the little boat and it would take you to shore.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly. Well, that did not go as planned.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, it didn't.

[C]

I remember getting this panicky radio thing. The boat with Phyllis on it is gone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Look. Look at my card.

[C]

You were on the boat, too?

[Angela Kinsey]

I was stranded on the boat.

[C]

Yeah. And Brian, too. Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Rain. And I wrote about it in my journal.

[C]

Yeah, it's crazy. Well, for some reason it fixated on me that it was Phyllis, that Phyllis was. That we had lost Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

He seems like the most vulnerable of the group. Right, Kind Phyllis.

[C]

Yeah. So. So I wrote her about and she.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait to hear what she says. Yeah.

[C]

Well, she says the first memory, she said it was about 2:30 in the morning and she was waiting to leave the ship. And her first memory was seeing Steve Carell on a tiny little boat holding onto some kind of a pole with no life jacket, disappearing into the night. And she remembers thinking that if NBC knew that their star didn't have a life jacket and was being pulled off back to the harbor, they would be upset. And then she got on the boat and she thought it was Oscar, Brian and somebody from the wardrobe department.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wrote about it the day.

[C]

That was you. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[C]

She says, I'm not sure if Angela was there or not. And then she talks. Everything was fine. Pulling away. We were enjoying the smell of the ocean, the lights in the distance. And then all of a sudden, nothing. The engine died. So you were there.

[Angela Kinsey]

So this is what I wrote the day after we filmed the scene. All right. I wrote one of the coolest things that happened to me while we shot this episode. Happened the last night, or I guess I should say the morning of rain. Phyllis and Brian and I were all wrapped at 5:30am we were on the main boat, but they said they had more shooting to do. So we could stay on the big boat and like sleep in a booth. Yeah, or they said they had these little rubber boats that would pull up next to the big boat that we could get on and they would take us to shore. So we said, okay, we'll do that. They said it's about a 15 minute boat ride on the little rubber dinghy. So we decided to do it. It was really tricky getting on the rubber boat.

[C]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

We just had to climb out a ladder off the side of the boat and these guys.

[C]

It's very unstable. Phyllis said that at one point she had to switch boats. She was terrified of falling in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And I said, okay, the little rubber boat. Picture the kind of like rubber boat that the Navy SEALs do the backflips off of with the little, like me, like out boat. That's what this looked like. So we're lowered down into it and it was me, Rain, Jen, one of our wardrobe gals, Phyllis and Brian. It was tiny and really bouncy. We took off. It was dark out and the ocean looked like black glass. It was very peaceful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, it's so poetic. Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sorry. About five minutes into our ride, our engine made a weird whirring sound and stopped working. And then we heard the boat driver radio and say, the engine's dead. You need to come get us. Brian started laughing and said, you've got to be kidding me. Then we just floated in the darkness, which felt like for a while, it was quiet and peaceful.

[C]

It turned into the Titanic.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, I know. And then we. Another rubber boat pulled up. And then we had to just straddle from one rubber boat with just two guys kind of holding it together into the other one. This was very tricky. We slowly made our way past the Queen Mary. Picture an old cruise ship that looks like the Titanic and there was a huge plume of fire coming from a refinery behind it. Rain said to me, this is so surreal. And that's exactly what it was.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, the wheels really came off when we went on locations.

[Angela Kinsey]

We talk about this a little bit.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, you know, this is for season nine, but, you know, Death Bus almost killed us all.

[C]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Work Bus.

[C]

Work Bus.

[Angela Kinsey]

Work Bus. We've called it Death Bus for so.

[Jenna Fischer]

Long, the cast calls it Death Bus. All right, well, we'll take a break and we'll be back.

[Angela Kinsey]

This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. We love Squarespace. We have talked about it for years. So here's the thing. Squarespace is an all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. I was just talking to a friend who's about to start a business. She wants a website. I was like, go to Squarespace. They have all these different templates. You can design it just for what you need and it's easy to use. Depending on what your business is, Squarespace can help you set up email campaigns. They can also help you with your analytics. So you know when people are coming to your site, what they're looking at. It gives you all the details. Squarespace also has Fluid Engine. Fluid Engine is a next generation website editor. It's never been easier for anyone to unlock unbreakable creativity. So you choose your website starting point and you customize, customize every design detail and you can reimagine it. You can drag and drop technology for your desktop or mobile. What we love about Squarespace is as our company has grown, our website needs have changed. And Squarespace has everything you need to adapt and make the website look exactly the way you want it and fit your needs. We love Squarespace. Head over to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, go to Squarespace OfficeLadies to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So one of my favorite things is happening right now at Macy's. It is their end of season winter clearance. I love a clearance sale and Macy's has a fantastic one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, they are offering 50% off fine jewelry, 20 to 30% off women's shoes, 20 to to 30% off handbags and wallets. I love a nice new handbag, Angela, but I do not need one so much that I'm gonna spend full price. I'm just not gonna do it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Guess what I just did.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did you get a new handbag?

[Angela Kinsey]

I did because they are having such good sales and I wanted a new brown handbag. Look, it's right here.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's very cute.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so cute. It was on sale and I only went for that one. But since they were having such good sales, I got one in black too. So I have them for whichever outfit I want.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well done.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. Thank you, Macy's.

[Jenna Fischer]

They are also offering 30 to 40% off winter accessories and up to 50% off bedding, dining and entertaining cookware, small appliances and more. Get great prices site wide and storewide with Macy's and their end of season winter clearance sale.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shop in store or online@macy's.com Today's episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness applied that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I really have to thank my dad for doing such a good job at educating me about money, about budgeting, about saving, but also about investing. I remember him sitting down and asking me how do you plan to invest? And I really thank him for that. He was very financially responsible. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com office ladies or download the Acorns app to get started.

[Angela Kinsey]

Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier 3 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and FCC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] OfficeLadies all right, we are back from break. I have a Question for you, Greg.

[C]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I've been waiting to ask you this. I know we're sort of jumping around with time codes, but at 11 minutes, 34 seconds, there's this beautiful shot that goes outside of the boat and goes around the boat. You pass Dwight, right? Like, steering, and it goes around the boat. How did we do that?

[C]

That is Kent Zabornak. So Kent was our line producer, and he was also in the dga, and, you know, he managed to launch us on the budget that we had, which was tiny, you know, into Long beach harbor on a boat for days and get hotel rooms for everybody. And he realized that we really needed a shot like that. And he shot that himself with his own equipment, you know, while we were shooting the rest of it, because he just had an instinct that there was no way the production could get that and stop everything. And, you know, so that was kind of a guerrilla move and super valuable. And Kent was fantastic at doing those kind of things. Like, he was always stitching together amazing stuff on our little budget.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is so cool. I did not know that. Did you? Like, when I saw it, I was like, wait, I. I know. Randall and Matt were inside with us.

[C]

Yeah. Who did?

[Angela Kinsey]

Our camera guys. I was like, how did that happen? And then I was like, is that a plane? Like, it's in the air? Like, how that. I mean, is it a drone? Like, what is it?

[C]

He's on one of those dinghies. He's on one of those Zodiacs.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's on a dinghy. Okay. All right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow. This is another question about a camera movement. So, you know, after they're at the bar and they're all talking about who they would save, Jim gets up his courage, and he's gonna walk over to Pam and he says, I would save the receptionist. I think I need to make that clear. Well, right before that, Greg Phelps noticed at 14 minutes, 37 seconds, there's a continuous shot of Jim looking down the length of the boat to Pam. As he thinks about who he would save, the camera then zooms in on Pam at the exact moment she has a really cute laughing smile. How did you time that out so perfectly? He wants to know, Jenna, were you given a cue when the camera was about to zoom in on you? But we used to do that stuff all the time. That was. Go ahead.

[C]

People, I think, have the wrong idea about how we did the show in a way, because, like, most filmmaking is super intentional. And you would say to the camera operator, okay, at this signal, you need to zoom in. And then you'd try and get the actor to do it at exactly the right time. And our show was more like the Theory of Natural Selection. Kind of like there would be a situation, and I would give notes or the directors would give notes to the camera operators that were not about what they did specifically, but more about their intentions. So we would say, okay, you're really interested in what he sees down at the end of the hall, so just go find it. And we had all these people who'd come from reality shows who were used to finding the story on their own. And that turned out great, you know, And I can't really speak for Ken as the director. He directed it, and he might have known exactly what he was going for and kept doing it until he got it. But a lot of the times there were just lots of happy accidents. And then you'd tell the story through all the happy accidents. And you had enough flexibility that you could have gone a bunch of different ways with it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think our editors don't get enough credit. Well, first of all, I think our camera operators don't get enough credit for all of those happy accidents. But then you would assemble those with the editors in the editing room to tell even more of a story than what was in the script.

[C]

Totally. The editors are amazing. We had fantastic editors. This one was Dean Dave Rogers. As you know, I'm still working with work with him all the time. Brilliant. Claire Scanlan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Claire Scanlon.

[C]

Also brilliant. And there was enormous amounts of leeway for the editors and in post because, like, a documentary, we shot way more stuff than we could ever possibly use. And so our rough cuts were always about 38 minutes long. But the show's only 21 minutes and, you know, six seconds or something like that. So tons of good material was discarded. And that was, like, a large part of my job. Like, I loved being on set, and I also loved being with the writers. But this whole other area of my job was sitting with the editors. And they're fun people, too, with great creative ideas. And you could tell so many different versions of the show by what you left in and what you took out. And there was always a thing where you'd go, everybody kind of agreed on the first six or eight minutes to get rid of. And probably we all agreed having Oscar make snarky, mean comments is not great or whatever it is. But then you get to, like, about 26 minutes. And there was a lot of really good stuff. And I used to have all these regrets about things that were great that couldn't get in the show. One of them for this, if you remember, was Creed sitting in with the band and us finding out that he'd been in the Grassroots. And that was, like, fantastic. And we had all this footage, and I found footage of him from, you know, late 60s and, you know, playing guitar with the Grassroots on Playboy After Dark with Hugh Hefner. Like, all this great footage, which was going to be the B roll under the. You know, under him, talking about playing with all these greats in the late 60s. And that was in for a really long time. I think it's in the DVD extras.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. It's in the deleted scenes. It's great. Michael, the. The guitar player is gonna take a break. And then Michael tries to fill in for him, and he's horrible. And then Creed says, let me give it a shot. And then he just gets up there and rocks out. And it's so cool and satisfying. And then he has a talking head where he explains that he is himself, basically, that he is Creed Bratton, member.

[C]

Of Grassroots, and that he kind of fried his brain with drug use and now he can barely concentrate on his job. And then there's a talking head of Angela going, he wasn't that good. Or something like that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I've seen better. Oh, man. By the way, I would wear a shirt that says, I'd save the receptionist. I think that is.

[Jenna Fischer]

We should have shirts that say, I'd save the receptionist.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think that's so cute.

[C]

I think Ken did a really good job with that, too, because that was, I believe, supposed to just be a talking head.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, in the script, it's a talking head.

[C]

Yeah. And he really rightly said, well, where exactly did he say this? Because he, you know, he had the thought. And then he walks over to Pam, and then she gets interrupted by Roy setting a date. So he couldn't figure out where there was going to be a time to interview him about this. And so he sort of invented this on the fly interview where he kind of just passed the cameraman and said it into camera. Then it was cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, very cool. I really liked that.

[Jenna Fischer]

No. And you're with him. Like, Jim's got his courage. He's going to save the receptionist. He almost gets up to Pam, and that's when Roy stands up and says that he's setting a wedding date. June 10. Fan question from Ed's Arquiza said, was Pam genuinely happy when Roy proposed, or was she just caught up in the moment? Well, I looked at the script. The script said, Pam looks happy. So I played It. That Pam was genuinely kind of overcome with this moment. You know, she's been trying to get Roy's attention. I think she wants him to treat her like this so badly.

[Angela Kinsey]

And so she's also invested years into this relationship. And I feel like. I feel for her because she's like, all right, we're gonna. We're gonna do it. This is it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

I think it makes it so much worse, too, because he had his moment on the deck.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

And she was quite receptive there. And then he didn't go for anything. And then here. Look how happy she is that she, you know, finally, after three years of being, you know, strung along.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you could just picture, like, oh, maybe I could have made that face on her if I'd said something upstairs, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. It's heartbreaking. And then he's mean to Katie.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Amy's. First of all, Amy's reaction is so sweet.

[Angela Kinsey]

So sweet.

[Jenna Fischer]

She is. I mean, she's waiting for her moment. Please propose to her somebody. Because she's like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Amazing. And then she. You're right. Jim breaks up with Katie very abruptly. Gibb Jenkins actually wrote in and said, jim. Jim Jenkins, you.

[Angela Kinsey]

You.

[C]

But you just. Come on first.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not real. Also, you just rolled into it. Like, I thought it was part of your sentence. You're like. And then Katie. Jibbity Jenkins.

[C]

I was like, is this a, like, a Missouri thing?

[Angela Kinsey]

I'll be Jibby Jenkins from Dog Patch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jim Jenkins. Jibbity Jenkins says Jim was kind of a dick to Katie the entire cruise for no reason other than he wanted to be with Pam. She's really innocent through all this. And then he just breaks up with her.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, don't break up with someone on a boat.

[C]

Well, yeah, there was the. A lot of the writers said that, too, to me, and I thought it was the most efficient breakup you could possibly have. Pretty much, you know, and we always had time issues, and I just didn't really want to see a long, drawn out scene with Katie and, you know, just wasn't about that. And it seemed to me he was motivated to be brusque and, you know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he was.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was really upset.

[C]

He was hurting.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was hurting, and he just sort of lashed out. I didn't think it needed to be long. I thought it was perfect. But I also love. And this is something we've talked about a lot, Greg, is that these characters are flawed people. They're not perfect people. So they're going to have moments Like, Pam was petty. I think Pam has been petty. And my character is certainly. We've talked about. My character is certainly, you know, not the nicest person.

[C]

And you went the longest being not the nicest of any character.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[C]

And which was great, because then when we got into season nine and I was kind of casting about for what the arc of season nine should be, it was like, well, there's only one character left who hasn't warmed up at all. Let's put Angela through hell this year.

[Angela Kinsey]

And let her soften just a smidge.

[C]

Let her deserve a happy ending.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So then we have a scene where we see that Captain Jack and Meredith are sneaking away to make out. Get it on something. Meredith's gonna come back later without a shirt on and just a life preserver.

[Angela Kinsey]

Letter her dad wrote her. Do you remember that letter?

[C]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That said, dear Kate, stop taking your clothes off. Thanks, dad.

[C]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this gives Michael the opening to take the microphone and really start his presentation, which he does by announcing that the ship is sinking. Most of the people don't realize that this is a metaphor. Passengers panic and a man jumps overboard. JT wrote in to ask who was the actual person who jumped in the water. And a lot of people are asking what happened to that person.

[C]

Yes, well, that was one of the non Dunder Mifflin people on the boat. And as I recall, he was not supposed to jump off the boat, as I recall. I mean, I may be blowing this because it was a while ago, but I think there was a little bit of shock that one of the extras jumped off the boat in that take. And I. I think we were probably not supposed to let him jump off the boat.

[Jenna Fischer]

On the DVD commentary, Greg, you said he really jumped out of the window into the freezing cold water.

[C]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you said that you always felt bad that there is no. Like, this person jumped on camera.

[Angela Kinsey]

It wasn't on camera.

[Jenna Fischer]

He didn't jump in above. He didn't jump in a boat. Like, he had to be fished out of the water.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's a rubber dinghy there.

[Jenna Fischer]

I believe it only happened the one time.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. I think he went. I think he may have either misinterpreted some direction or he just was super enthusiastic. I don't. I have a slight memory of that being a little too gorilla.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's like Kent was out there running that shot. Kent's Vornak.

[C]

Kent was in the boat. They were supposed to catch him, but he went. He was filming, took the shot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, I loved at. So this is around 17 minutes, 34 seconds for my time code, people. But I love that the Dunder Mifflin employees know immediately that there's no emergency. And, like, even, like, Kevin and Angela, like, we are in a booth together. Oscar, I guess, is off somewhere being snarky, and we're like, no, no, guys, no, no. There's nothing but.

[C]

Right? You're trying to calm it down.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you pan across all the different Dunder Mifflin employees, and they're like, oh, God, here we go. But the rest of the boat doesn't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this. Oh, go ahead. What were you gonna say?

[C]

Well, I was just saying this was leading up to him being handcuffed on the roof.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes.

[C]

And the kind of secret impetus for this whole episode was that, you know, we had come on the air in the first season, and we were given six episodes, and we didn't do a great job in the ratings, and there was a lot of question whether we'd get invited back. And so at one point in between the seasons, Kevin Riley said, come in and pitch me a new take on the show. Why should I bring you guys back?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. Pressure.

[C]

There was a lot of pressure. And so I. I had initially kind of thought that the Office was such a special, unique show, which I had so much respect for, that I wouldn't change very much on it. And I realized that I needed to change something. And I had some experience with this, with King of the Hill, in making Hank likable. The lead of King of the Hill, and he had certain qualities that were invented to keep him likable. And so I was like, oh, this isn't really that different because Michael has some negative qualities. And I just got to find a way to give him some stories that are going to warm him up. And so I wrote out a bunch of story ideas somewhere, like in. Probably in Norms. No, we weren't at Norms yet. That was my go to place in the mornings on Sherman Way in Woodman. But, yeah, so I was in some coffee shop, and I wrote down a bunch of moments that I thought would warm him up. And one of them was that, for instance, that even though the staff finds him irritating, they'll back him against an outsider. So that was like the end of Dundees. And one of them was like, he should be good at his job, which happened in the Client. He actually was a good salesperson. And this one was that he should give a piece of really good advice to somebody, that the audience was gonna be happy that that Advice was transferred, you know, and you'd be like, yeah, good for you, Michael. And so it was sort of all about him telling Jim to never give up on the top of that thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bfd.

[C]

Yeah. Bfd. Right. Engaged, ain't married. Yeah. But that's what the audience wanted to see. You know, Jim was so sad. You wanted someone to give him some hope and keep this Jim Pam thing going. And so Michael kind of stepped in, and I took the never, ever, ever give up from actually the Winston Churchill's speech, which, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is perfectly you.

[C]

So nerdy of me, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

This is perfectly you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[C]

But, like, I always choke up at the speeches of Winston Churchill, World War II, and, you know, fight him on the beaches, you know, and he has something where he says, never, ever, ever, ever give in, you know? And I was like, that's cool. I'm gonna crib that for Michael.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it worked. And it also worked for me, but, like, on a different level for Michael. Like, it works for Jim, but for Michael, the whole episode, he just wanted someone to feel inspired by him.

[C]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, so when. When Roy and Al, he was like, is this. Cause of the talk you and I had? And he goes, no, Captain Jack. And he's like, ugh. So you see, like, Jim's appreciation in this moment, and I feel like Michael feels it. And I'm like, oh, Michael got one person.

[C]

Yeah, it was great. Cause the two plots kind of intersect there for a moment. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when Jim first walks up to Michael as an audience member, I'm thinking, oh, gosh, this is the worst person for him to be around right now. I know, I know. He is so vulnerable. He. This is bad. And then it turns into what it is, and it's perfect. Perfect.

[C]

After a few of those, Michael starts to get to be a better lead.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, guys, we did it.

[Angela Kinsey]

We did it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Greg, thank you so much. I want to give a plug. You have a new show coming up called Upload, which premieres on Amazon prime this April. This is crazy. This is the first show that you have written since you wrote the finale of the Office.

[C]

That's correct. I've been working on this for so long, it's kind of ridiculous. We had our strike in 2008, and this was my sort of idea to write a book. Like a sci fi book.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[C]

And then we went back to work, and so, you know, it was gestating for a long time. And it's sort of a romance, very intense, and it's set in the future I am in.

[Angela Kinsey]

I Am in. I love sci fi. I am so in.

[C]

Well, it's got a very kind of accessible, more Harry Pottery than like on a spaceship kind of deal. And. Yeah. And anyway, so I have been working on it pretty much since the Office went down, which is ridiculous. But I wrote it, I sold it to hbo, it was there for a couple years and then it went over to Amazon and we shot it in Vancouver at the beginning of the year. And yeah, it's finally coming out.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait to see it. I love all of this. These are like, some of my favorite movies.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's a comedy.

[C]

Yeah, it's funny too. It's a comedy. It's like a lot of stuff. There's a mystery. It's basically there's this idea that in the future, medical imagery will get much better and virtual reality and it'll become possible if you're in an accident and you get to the hospital in time to have your brain scanned and then you can be uploaded. It's called upload into a virtual reality hotel that's run by all the big tech companies. So the six big tech companies that have things like Alexa and Siri, they have programmed these luxurious sort of virtual hotels along the lines of different themes. So, like the Facebook one is like a casino and the Apple one is like, you know, some sort of beachy kind of resort. And the one that he ends up being uploaded in is like this mountain hotel on a lake. And anyway, that's now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Did his body die? But then he uploaded. Is that a spoiler?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, his brain was scanned.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, I know, but I'm saying is.

[C]

But that's the end of your head. It burns your head off when. When the scan happens.

[Jenna Fischer]

When the scan happens. So you have died in the real world.

[C]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And now you live out the information.

[C]

Upload exists and it's digitally presented in a piece of software so that you think you're still alive.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love it. I love it. Upload on Amazon. I can't wait.

[Jenna Fischer]

In April. So, yeah, guys, if you want more from the man who gave you the office, you have to check out upload. Thanks, Greg, so much.

[C]

What a pleasure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Lady's second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our executive director producer is Cassie Jerkins and our audio engineer and associate producer is Daniela Silva.

[Jenna Fischer]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Wise Berman and Leah Reese Dennis.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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