Second Drink: Business Ethics with Amy Ryan

Summary

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Office Ladies — Second Drink: "Business Ethics" with Amy Ryan

Podcast: Office Ladies
Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey
Guest: Amy Ryan
Original Air Date: March 30, 2026

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Overview

This “Second Drink” episode is a lively and heartfelt rewatch and behind-the-scenes conversation about "Business Ethics," a fan-favorite episode from Season 5 of The Office. Jenna and Angela are joined by Amy Ryan, who played Holly Flax, to discuss her experience on set, her character’s trajectory, and memorable moments from the episode. The hosts also field fan mail, share deleted scenes, relate personal anecdotes, and provide unique insight into the show’s production and off-camera camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Fan-Favorite Moments from "Business Ethics"

(03:25 – 06:41)

• Jenna and Angela read fan emails about favorite moments in “Business Ethics,” especially highlighting:
  • The Let’s Get Ethical opening scene (dancing in headbands with rewritten lyrics to "Let's Get Physical").
  • The background detail of Michael’s red headband marks disappearing between shots ([03:24] and [03:31]).
  • Michael tackling Jim on learning of his engagement, a moment fans wondered if it was improvised (it was scripted!).
  • Meredith’s confession about bartering sex for discounted paper and Outback Steakhouse gift certificates, and the corporate indifference.

Amy Ryan Interview — Behind the Scenes as Holly Flax

(12:09 – 32:29)

How Amy Joined The Office

• Amy describes the “eerie timing” of roles and mutual fanhood with Paul Lieberstein ([14:45]):

  “I want to do a comedy, and I want to do a comedy like The Office… And at the same time, Paul had reached out. I don’t know who got there first, but it was about the same week.”

• She was initially told Holly would be a one-episode character and “potential love interest”—code for a tryout ([15:52]).
• Holly was loosely based on a character from the British Office, but Amy’s portrayal was shaped on set.

First Impressions & On-Set Atmosphere

• Being a fan, Amy walked onto set amazed at how “much smaller” it felt in person, but was bowled over by the cast’s warmth:

  “It was the most down-to-earth, welcoming, warm group of people, like true ensemble that I met.” ([16:31])

• She emphasizes that, unlike most shows, The Office remained “about the work” with no big egos despite its success ([17:09]).

The Infamous "Let's Get Ethical" Number

• Costume choices like the headbands were wardrobe’s idea, but the actual dance was Amy “just following Steve Carell’s lead” ([17:57]):

  “I was smart enough to get in the sidecar of that motorcycle ride.”

• On set, it was “so hard not to laugh,” with cast members like Oscar Nunez visibly struggling to keep it together on camera ([18:47]).

Improv vs. Scripted on The Office

• Amy dispels the “was it improvised?” myth:

  “It was heavily scripted. Maybe by the third take, Steve would go off script first, and then everyone would follow suit. But it was just so perfectly done that people can’t really tell.” ([19:15])

• Jenna and Angela confirm this was “absolutely” the show’s rhythm. ([20:17])

Coopers Seafood, Recognition, and Real-Life Holly

• Amy shares her real visit to Cooper’s in Scranton in disguise: “Not one person recognized me!” ([26:40])
• Discusses being recognized more in streaming days and by a whole new generation.

On Laughter, Sitcoms, and Her Career

• Amy describes the laughter on set as “a series of sit ups… exhausted but happy” ([23:26]).
• She credits the show for being fun and a healthy antidote to her typical drama roles:

  “Usually I end up in these dramas where I’m crying all day, so this is a much better way to…” ([24:03])

• The familial feel on set and the joy of working on a comedy: “It was a happy place to work.” ([24:48])

Notable Quote

“There’s a lid for every pot. So they finally found each other.”
— Amy Ryan ([14:25]), on the magic of Holly and Michael

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The Office Production Deep Dive: Craft Services & “Snack Masters” Segment

(36:39 – 47:22)

• DVD commentary for “Business Ethics” highlighted beloved crew members: Peter & Vartan (craft services) and Sergio & Alan (caterers)—dubbed the “snack masters.”
• Detailed rundown of the entire crew’s breakfast favorites, including:
  • Steve Carell: mushrooms, ground turkey, egg white scramble with ketchup
  • Rainn Wilson: veggie scramble with egg whites, wheat toast
  • Jenna: “two egg whites scrambled with a little bit of cheese”
  • The legendary “Rasheeda special,” “Johnny K,” and “Creed special” breakfasts, and the hotly-loved chocolate chip cookie cake ([41:24]).
• Touching stories about Peter’s grandfatherly care: making custom sandwiches on porcelain plates with decorative fruit ([44:41]):

  “It was like your grandpa made you a sandwich. And you felt so loved.”

• The communal spirit fostered by the catering crew echoed the “family” theme running through the show on and off camera.

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Episode Breakdown & Key Scenes

Episode Summary and Fast Facts

(09:38 – 12:09)

• “Business Ethics” (Season 5, Episode 3) summary & fast facts:
  • Written by Ryan Ko (who only wrote for the show one season, left for Cougar Town)
  • No Pam in the main episode—deleted art school scenes discussed later
  • Notable deleted subplot: Ryan vs. Kevin “broken car mirror” runner ([56:00])—see next section

Iconic Scenes and Notable Moments

“Let’s Get Ethical” Opening ([03:42]; [49:10])

• Michael and Holly perform their HR-themed rewrite of “Let’s Get Physical,” with earnest dancing and rewritten lines:

  “Let’s get ethical, ethical, I wanna get ethical, let’s get into ethics…” — Amy Ryan as Holly ([03:42])

Michael Tackles Jim ([05:10])

• Fans ask if the “tackling hug” was improvised—it was indeed scripted for maximum mayhem.
• Behind the stunt: Safety mats used, and John Krasinski (“Jim”) did not break character despite how hard it was not to laugh.

Meredith’s Bombshell Confession ([54:23])

• Meredith reveals her long-term “relationship” with the Hammermill paper rep for discounts and steakhouse gift certificates.
  • Jenna notes a continuity catch: Meredith claims a 6-year Hammermill liaison, but Dunder Mifflin only just “landed” Hammermill a couple years earlier ([55:02]).

Deleted Ryan/Kevin Subplot ([55:37])

• Ryan confesses to Kevin that he knocked off his car’s mirror and never took responsibility (“that guy did a lot of things I’m not proud of”). Kevin gets subtle revenge by melting Ryan’s sunglasses in the toaster oven ([57:12]).

  “We’re never gonna get what we need from that guy.” — BJ Novak as Ryan ([56:42])

“Pam at Art School” Deleted Scenes ([58:15+])

• Jenna recounts the cut sequence: Pam and younger classmates go day drinking at a tiki bar (flaming “volcano” drink), Pam feeling out of place, giving a “crazy monologue” about her life goals ([59:49]).

  “At this point, I thought I would be married and running my own art company…” — Jenna as Pam ([60:19])

• Angela shares her own “volcano drink” story from Manhattan Beach (“That’s all you’ll ever need to have. Tread lightly!”).

Michael & Holly at Lunch at “Cooper’s” ([70:00+])

• Restaurant exterior is the real Cooper’s in Scranton; interior was Clancy’s Crab Broiler in Glendale, CA. Set design team recreated Cooper’s look meticulously ([70:03–71:42]).
• Michael tries to order impressively (“The house makes a great red”), but Holly is all business.
• Michael and Holly clash: Holly wants to report Meredith’s ethics violation; Michael wants to keep things “in the family.”

  Holly: “It’s not a family, it’s a workplace.” Michael’s crestfallen response is a key turning point. ([74:24])

Jim & Dwight “Time Theft” Prank ([75:02])

• Jim attempts to catch Dwight wasting company time via stopwatch, purposely getting Battlestar Galactica details wrong to provoke Dwight ([75:02-75:40]).
• Noted fan appreciation for behind-the-camera work: the quick focus between Jim and Dwight during this “comedic dance.”

Creed’s Desk Decor Mystery ([76:21])

• Fan question about a “free bird” on Phyllis’s desk—neither she nor Jenna recalls who put it there. Mystery unsolved!

Angela & Dwight’s “Warehouse Rendezvous” ([78:01])

• Discussion leads to an amusing detour about the average length of sex acts, science of “thrusting,” and how Angela and Dwight only needed “six minutes” in the warehouse ([78:01–81:29]).

  “By the way, this article went on to the evolution of sex. Why is there thrusting? It was fascinating. I was fascinated.” — Angela Kinsey ([81:08])

Finale: Ethics Training Wrap-Up & Steak Tag ([85:03])

• Holly, beaten down by lack of support from corporate, soldiers through reading the ethics binder.
• Michael rallies everyone to the meeting in solidarity.
• End tag: The office happily feasts on steak (supplied by Meredith’s “dealings”). Angela confirms she’s eating potatoes as the office’s resident vegetarian ([86:21]).

  “Angela, you can have these potatoes.” — Jenna ([86:58])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Amy Ryan on Holly & Michael:
  “There’s a lid for every pot. So they finally found each other.” ([14:25])

• Angela on watching the “Let’s Get Ethical” live:
  “Oscar’s face says it all. He kind of does this mouth open thing, and that’s him trying not to laugh.” ([18:47])

• Amy on Steve Carell:
  “Anything that I was lucky enough to be paired with Steve… I was smart enough to get in the sidecar of that motorcycle ride.” ([17:57])

• On the emotional tone of the show:
  “It’s not a workplace, it’s actually a family. And that really comes through so beautifully.” — Amy Ryan ([13:42])

• Reflecting on set life:
  “I would go home feeling like I worked out a series of sit ups because my stomach muscles were always in play for laughing so hard.” — Amy Ryan ([23:26])

• Michael Scott’s ideal date (deleted scene):
  “There will be a rose. There will be music and dancing… We make hardcore love. And then we fall asleep on her lanai to the sound of the full moon.” ([64:01])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:25–06:45 — Fan mail: favorite moments from "Business Ethics"
• 12:09–32:29 — Amy Ryan interview (how she got cast, on-set memories, Holly & Michael)
• 36:39–47:22 — Deep dive into craft services and cast eating habits
• 58:15–61:19 — Deleted Pam at art school scenes
• 70:00–73:45 — Real-life Cooper’s & Michael/Holly lunch
• 75:02–76:56 — Jim-Dwight Battlestar prank, camera work, and desk “free bird” mystery
• 78:01–81:29 — Angela/Dwight warehouse rendezvous; amusing research tangent

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is a blend of nostalgia, humor, and deep appreciation for the community fostered on set—both among the cast and crew. Amy Ryan’s stories underscore the show’s warmth and the rare camaraderie behind the camera. The peppering of fan questions, behind-the-scenes trivia, and cast memories brings the Office family feeling to listeners as well. Through laughter, inside jokes (“long crotch” pants, “hot snack” breaks), and the earnestness of Amy’s reflections, the podcast offers both celebration and intimacy for new and returning fans.

Final Note:
The "Second Drink" structure—with its mix of episode breakdown, off-camera recollections, and audience interaction—makes this podcast episode a fun, highly informative companion to The Office viewing experience.

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Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

That's B O-M-B-A-S.com officeladies code officeladies at checkout. Welcome to our second drink of business ethics. I loved this episode and we finally got to have Amy Ryan on the podcast. What a fun interview.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Oh my gosh, she is just the best. She gave us such great behind the scenes details about her time playing Holly Flax AKA Hollis Flax. But that's not all. Listen, we put the word out and we asked you all, what were your favorite moments from the episode? Business ethics. And I just want to say thank you to everyone who responded. It was really fun to read your answers.

[Amy Ryan]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

And there was one particular scene that got a fan mail Flurry. Tanish C. From India said, so I basically love the opening scene where Michael and Holly are dancing with the headbands on and the binder book and they are singing let's get ethical. Ethical. I actually laughed so hard. And Karen Y from Ecuador said it is also her favorite moment and she has a background catch. Karen says at 3 minutes, 24 seconds, you can see two red marks on Michael's forehead from the headband he was wearing for the dance. But at 3 minutes, 31 seconds, the red marks are completely gone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. We must have shot on two different days, I guess. Well, I love this fan mail Flurry. And we thought this moment was adorable. We talk about it, but we didn't play it. And I think we should hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's hear it.

[Amy Ryan]

Let's get ethical, Ethical. I wanna get ethical. Let's get into ethics. Yeah. Let me hear Dunder Mifflin talk. Your body talk. Let me hear your body talk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Woo.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Can we just say their idea of inserting, like, new lyrics and trying to make it fit is. Let me hear your Dunder Mifflin talk. Your Dunder Mifflin talk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah,

[Angela Kinsey]

it cracked me up.

[Jenna Fischer]

I also just love how Amy Ryan, as an actress was just so up for this bit and just match Steve Carell in his silliness. It was so fun to be on set and watch that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, we got to be in the audience. And the thing when you rewatch it is there's a good. I don't know, it feels like a few minutes where they're only dancing and they're not even singing yet. It's pretty great. All right. Another fan favorite moment comes from Chantelle E. She says, my husband has asked me every week since I started listening to the podcast if it was time for this episode. His favorite moment of the entire series is when Michael finds out that Jim and Pam are engaged. The question is, does Steve improvise tackling Jim, or was that scripted? I'm so excited that I am finally able to ask this question for my husband. Exclamation point. There was also lots of all caps in there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, it's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, Chantel, we did talk about this moment when we first broke down the episode, and it was scripted, but we Never described how it's read in the

[Jenna Fischer]

script, which is very funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

So tell your hubby I went to our shooting draft and here is the original scripted scene. And the over the top commotion actually originally started with Kelly. Kelly. Kelly comes into the bullpen and she says, what's everyone talking about? And Creed says, the tall guy got engaged. And then here's the scene description. Kelly screams and falls to the ground uncontrollably. Michael comes in for the day and sees Kelly on the floor. He says, what's going on? Pam, quickly with a voiceover jumping in, says, nothing, nothing. Michael just saying hi. Kelly, barely able to get it out, says, Jim and Pam are engaged and Michael goes to be married. Three question marks, three exclamation points. Michael tackles Jim. Yeah, so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, another fan favorite moment was Meredith's confession. You know, when she shares that she's been sleeping with a Hammermill paper rep for the last six years for lower prices on paper and Outback Steakhouse gift certificates. Sean C. From Maryland said, I like when corporate just doesn't give a about what Meredith is doing.

[Amy Ryan]

And.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Lindsay S. From Canada also loved that storyline and said, I loved it when corporates said that as long as Dunder Mifflin was getting a discount, they were fine with it. Also, when Meredith shares her barbecue with the Office is peak.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, that tag at the end and everyone is eating Outback Steakhouse and they're all so happy about it. It's pretty amazing. So thanks for writing in everyone and sharing your favorite moments from this episode. We'll be doing second drinks every Monday, so write in your fan favorite moments [e-mail] and. And now here is business ethics.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office ladies. Hi, everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

What's up, Ange?

[Angela Kinsey]

What's up with you and your cute pants?

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for saying that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I noticed them right away.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's the thing. I hit a wall with sweatpants.

[Amy Ryan]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Guys, One of the reasons we started this podcast was because I wanted a job I could do in sweatpants. You know, we talked about that a lot early on. Yeah, well, I counted after 409 days of wearing sweatpants. I mean, not every single day, but the Most part, for the last 409 days, I would get out of bed and put on sweatpants. Right? I actually had several pairs of pants that were made of the same material as my sheets.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like a jersey.

[Jenna Fischer]

They're a bamboo, okay. Made by the same company that makes my sheets.

[Angela Kinsey]

Listen, if I could have pants made by people that make bedding.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what I thought. It's like I'm just wearing my bed around all day. I thought I'd hit the jackpot, okay? So after 409 days of this, I hit a wall, and I was like, I need to wear pants, actual pants. So I went out and I bought a pair of pants. Angela, I'm gonna stand up. I'm gonna show you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm gonna describe them to you. I'm gonna take a picture. They kind of look like camouflage, but like very sassy cargo kind of pants.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, that's what I was going for.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sassy cargo.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I love a sassy cargo.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, I.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so here's the thing. I think I'm so used to wearing sweatpants, I'm in the dressing room and I don't know which size of pants to buy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because you've been wearing the baggy britches.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. I went back and forth and back and forth, and I went with the bigger size. And now I've been wearing them for what, I don't know, an hour now. They're all stretched out. They're too big. And look what happens now. They're falling down, and I've got long crotch. Long crotch, lady. I see it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You have long, long crotch gals. You know what we're talking about. When, like, the seam of your pants is, like, halfway between your thigh and your knees. That's long crotch.

[Jenna Fischer]

So what do I do? I've worn them. I can't take them back and get the smaller size. I think I could get someone to alter it in the back.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, I like the sassy cargo minus the long crotch. What are we doing today?

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, let me tell you.

[Angela Kinsey]

For those of you guys wanting to

[Jenna Fischer]

know what we're doing today, it is business ethics. Season 5, Episode 3 oh, yeah. It is written by Ryan Co and directed by Jeffrey Blitz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here is a summary. Jim reluctantly reveals him and Pam's engagement to the office. We'll discuss. Following Ryan's recent actions, corporate has required Holly to conduct a seminar on business ethics. Michael offers immunity to anyone willing to confess to dishonesty at work.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are we, like an episode of Survivor?

[Jenna Fischer]

I know you get immunity, everything you

[Angela Kinsey]

say, and then we're going to light the torch for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, some things are revealed again, we will discuss, and it's going to cause a rift between Michael and Holly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Meanwhile, Jim makes Dwight observe the company's time theft policy, and Meredith provides Outback steakhouse takeout to the entire office. So that's our summary. Would you like fast fact number one?

[Angela Kinsey]

I really would.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, new writer alert. Writer Ryan Ko has joined the staff for season five. Hello, Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello, Ryan.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was only with us for one season as he left to work on Cougar Town.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, we knew lots of folks on Cougar Town.

[Jenna Fischer]

We sure did. Busy Phillips.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He is also a writer and co executive producer of the Simpsons. Welcome, Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Welcome.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fast fact number two. No Pam. Outside of the cold open where you hear Pam's voice, there is no Pam in this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

But there was Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

There was, you guys. There was. I filmed a bunch of scenes at art school and they all got cut out. I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I saw in the deleted scenes, there's like three.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'm going to talk about them as we break down this episode on Office Ladies. Pam will be inserted into this episode again. She will live again.

[Angela Kinsey]

She will. And also, Jenna, there was an amazing Ryan Kevin runner that got deleted for time, and it's great. And I'm going to bring that up, you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're bringing it all back today in business ethics. Fast fact number three, Amy Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Holly is here today.

[Jenna Fischer]

We interviewed Amy Ryan, all about this episode and her time on the Office. Let's hear it. Amy Ryan, welcome to office ladies.

[Amy Ryan]

Hi, office ladies. I'm so glad to be here and to see your beautiful faces and the interior of your closets.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I was going to say welcome to our closets.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amy, it's so good to see you. Holly Flax. Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hollis. We found out your name is Hollis.

[Amy Ryan]

Is that right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Because it's on your little name placard. Yes.

[Amy Ryan]

I don't know if I ever knew that. That's a really good tip.

[Jenna Fischer]

Would you have played the character differently, Tony?

[Amy Ryan]

I would have been much more, you know, refined. I feel like Hollis is much more refined. And maybe I would have had an accent. I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think if your character had been a Supreme court judge, you might have gone by Hollis.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

But you ended up in hr, and so you went with the less formal Holly, maybe.

[Amy Ryan]

That's correct. You. Yeah. When you run hr, you really want to be more approachable, you know, kind of A, you know, warm, fuzzy character.

[Jenna Fischer]

That makes sense.

[Angela Kinsey]

Holly was a warm, fuzzy character, and we're in love with her. I am so enamored by Holly and Michael. Jenna and I have cried because Michael is, like, finally with someone that cares about him.

[Amy Ryan]

She's dead.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, in watching it episode by episode, and just four years of Michael not having a partner, to suddenly see a woman partner with him and joke with him and like his jokes, I did. I cried.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, I. You know, in preparation for meeting you both today, I rewatched the episode. I hadn't watched the show in a long time, save for, like, popping in the room when my daughter was on her third pass of the series. It is so moving. I think all the characters are so moving. There's. I know everyone's talked about this before, but that element of the family, you know, it's not a workplace, it's actually a family. And that really comes through so beautifully. But Holly and Michael, I mean, I've always said, you know, there's a lid for every pot. So they finally found each other. But she has a high tolerance, I suppose, for. For that kind of guy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we always like to ask people, amy, how did you come to be on the show? And we did a little research. Paul Lieberstein told us that they came to you, they were huge fans, but that you had simultaneously mentioned to your agent you might like to do our show.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

So what was that process? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

How did it go down?

[Amy Ryan]

That is true. And the timing was eerie because I did say that to my agent. It was soon after the Oscars, and I was like, you know, I'm doing a lot of dramas, and if I have any kind of cachet right now at this moment, I want to do a comedy, and I want to do a comedy like the Office, because I was never good at the four camera sitcom. I just felt too much pressure. And it wasn't like, I always feel like characters weren't really rooted in reality the way the Office was. And that goes back to how I met Paul Lieberstein. We were both employed on the Naked Truth, and he was a writer. My agent had kind of reached out, and at the same time, Paul had reached out, I guess, to him. I don't know who got there first, but it was. I really think it was like, about the same week. And Paul had mentioned that he was also a fan of the Wire, as were some of the other writers. So it was kind of a culmination of all those worlds coming together.

[Angela Kinsey]

And did they pitch the character of Holly? To you or did you like have a script to read or anything?

[Amy Ryan]

I don't remember reading a script. I remember saying hearing it was a one episode only and potential love interest, which obviously I knew was code for we'll see how you do, kid, if we have you back. I remember also because I was a big fan of the British series. David finally gets a woman who likes him too. So it was loosely based, I think on her for the first episode. And then our group took it to a different level. So there was no script that I was privy to. But I knew the. I knew the kind of general idea of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

What was it like to walk onto the set for the first time?

[Amy Ryan]

Really weird. It was really weird. It's because also then now I'm a fan of the American version and you start to know the set obviously from the comfort. Comfort of your couch or your tablet or whatever it is. You know, when you get there, it's like, oh, everything's smaller. And then there you all were, so warm and welcoming. You know, there's always an element of being the new kid in school and how's that going to go down? But. And also you guys at this point are on a really massive, you know, big hit show. And it was the most down to earth, welcoming, warm group of people, like true ensemble that I met. And even to the end, I feel like you hear all those stories of shows that become so successful and the bad behavior starts coming out. But at least I didn't see any of that. And I just thought it was always about the work. And you guys really set such a beautiful tone there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you said you rewatched business ethics and one of my favorite parts is when you and Michael do the let's Get Physical.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. That's so funny. I watched that with my daughter and we watched that scene like two times in a row. Just him reaching in, trying to hit the play button. And then the two of you running in with those headbands and your dance number. How. How did you guys come up with all that?

[Amy Ryan]

What do we do? Well, I get the, the headbands. I have to give credit for wardrobe. I mean, that was pretty wonderful and ridiculous. Just that having that visual, the dance, honestly, that's me just following Steve like anything, you know, I always. Anything that I was lucky enough to be partnered paired with Steve. I was smart enough to get in the sidecar of that motorcycle ride. Like, I'm not going to lead this year. He's going to have a better idea. So that was, that was just me Kind of, you know. Yeah. Literally following his choreography.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I wasn't there because my character was at art school, so I am super bummed that I did not get to see that done live. Did you guys do, like, tons of takes of it? You were there. And do you guys remember?

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so hard not to laugh from the minute it started. And when I was rewatching it, Oscar's face says it all. He's in the front. And I was like, I don't want to be in the front. Please don't put me in the front. Because I knew I was going to get so tickled. And Oscar does this thing when he's trying not to break. And, you know, we know each other's tales after all those years where he kind of does this mouth open thing, and that's him trying not to laugh. So you go back and watch Oscar's

[Amy Ryan]

like, I'm going to.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so funny.

[Amy Ryan]

First of all, being in that conference, you know, that's kind of the most famous part of the set, Right? Here we go. And someone gets to present something. And it's better when, again, you're paired with someone next to you. But those scenes where I'm alone giving the conference, my hands are, like, white knuckled. I'm, like, trying to be, like, you know, very casual holding my hands. But if you look closely, my hands are just like two iron fists of nerves. That's the other thing. Like, the everyone always asks me, is the office was that a lot of improv? And I said, no, it was. I remember Scripty coming up to me, you know, correcting me for, like, of. Instead of at, like, something really tiny. And I tell people and tell me if I'm wrong. I was like, it was heavily scripted. And then maybe by the third take, Steve would go off script first, and then everyone would follow suit. That's my recollection of it. Would you say that's right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Absolutely.

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah. And in that, I just think it was again, like, you guys are so in tune with each other and no one trying to beat anyone to the punchline. It was just a constant setup. And it was. I thought it was just so perfect. And I think that's why people can't really tell between the scripted and when it goes to improv. It was just a. Just so perfectly done.

[Jenna Fischer]

I wanted to ask you about those restaurant scenes. Oh, yeah, the Coopers.

[Angela Kinsey]

Coopers.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's that whole runner about the chastity belt where he's trying to explain what a chastity belt is.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, My gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you're like a chastity belt.

[Amy Ryan]

I think, like, the really fun part of their relationship is that it's always a surprise when, like, Holly's on board with him with some joke. And then those moments, like the chassis belt where she's so horrified and yet so forgiving, you know, here she is this. You know, she's still flirty with this guy and she likes him and not sure where it's gonna go, but she's gonna give that a pass. You know, Always with Steve, it was so hard not to la. There was also, like a thrill that sets in. Look, I remember when I was 25, I went skydiving and I did it where you're strapped to the other instructor. And just as the airplane door opened up and he made me look out, we were about, I guess, 13,000ft near. And I remember the thought in my head is, okay, I'm going to die or I'm going to have the time of my life. Pick one. And I remember picking. I'm gonna have fun. And as nervous as I was, you know, being like in those scenes with Steve, I remember that moment too. Like, oh, just pick one. Why don't you have fun instead? You know, and certainly with him at the lead, like, we're all gonna look good, you know, he's gonna take us along for the ride, I feel. But. But it was so hard not to laugh. Like painfully hard not to laugh. But I felt like we were dropped into another place of concentration that kind of pulled it all along, if that makes sense.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Did you know Steve before?

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah, in a very. I had this minuscule part in Dan in real life that Steve starred in was this big extended family comedy. We all. There's a whole group of us there on location in Rhode island. And so we all became friends. And then I think it was about like six months after that film is when the Office came up. And I believe they ran the idea by Steve of casting me. And I guess it helped. I knew him from Rhode island for that little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we always ask everyone if they have any, like, favorite memories from their time on the show, like any kind of behind the scenes moment or just something that you remember that stood out to you during your time on the Office.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, my gosh, there's so, so much. I mean, just. Just in a general note, I would honestly not, no exaggeration. I would go home feeling like I worked out a series of sit ups because my stomach muscles were always in play for laughing so hard. And I just Go home exhausted but happy. And that was a nice feeling. But there's. And speaking of that, like, kind of the uncontrollable laughter, there's the episode where Daryl helps me move and he comes in the car ride. The truck ride.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Amy Ryan]

Me, Steve, and Craig, like, holed up in that truck all day, kind of. Probably. We had a little bit of lack of oxygen, but we couldn't. We were in hysterics and could barely get through the scenes. And it was. That was like one of the highlights of my time there was just spending the day with those two guys just laughing. I mean, I say that, but I'd also be on set and laughing all the time, too. It was just very new to me. Usually I end up in these dramas where I'm crying all day, so this is a much better way to.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember that, too. And I remember my agents asking me if I wanted to do dramas in my downtime. You mentioned you were like, I've done a lot of dramas. I want to do a comedy. Do you want to take a stab at some drama? And I was like, I don't think so. I think I'm really liking the jobs where I just laugh all day because I'm, like, in a good mood a lot. So let's just keep doing the comedies. It was like, it was a happy place to work.

[Angela Kinsey]

My only request was if I could ever have a scene where I didn't frown.

[Amy Ryan]

That's true.

[Jenna Fischer]

You had to frown your way through this comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, do you get recognized as Holly Flax, like, when you're out and about?

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, I do. I do. And it's interesting. I'm sure you guys have noticed there's being recognized when the show was on the air and then the whole streaming version of the show, that has kind of taken it to a whole new level. And everyone's getting younger. My daughter's friends, and so, yeah, I do. I still get. I still get recognized. You know, years ago, not that long ago, a few years ago, my family and our really good friends, we went to Scranton because there's this amazing antique store called All Good Things. And it's just a warehouse, a giant warehouse of just every old antique knob, hinge, dresser, door, toilet. It goes on. It goes on forever. It's really cool. And so we go there, and then we're looking for something to eat, and we're hungry, and they pull in, and I was kind of behind the eight ball on this, and we. We pull into Cooper's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Amy Ryan]

And I Go. Oh, no, no, no, you guys. No, I. I'm pretty. I mean, I don't get harassed being, you know, but I. I'm pretty shy. If someone comes up to me on the street, I say hello and thank you, but. But I also have a lot of privacy. People don't always recognize me. But I was like, hell, no, we are not going into Cooper's. I am Holly from the office. I cannot walk into Cooper's. I cannot, I cannot, I cannot. And they're like. And my one friend Anne, who was there, she's kind of naughty. She's like, oh, it good. We have to. We have to. So they talk me into it, but I go in and I've got my head down, and I'm just, like, waiting. I'm waiting to be treated, you know, like the Beatles here or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we.

[Amy Ryan]

We sit in a booth, and this old, tired waitress comes up, and she takes our order, and my friend. And right away she's like, this place is amazing. You know, what. What's the story here? She's like, oh, well, we've been here for X amount of years. And it was also used in the set of the Office, but, you know, I mean, people used to be excited about that, but they're not any. Can I get you. I was, like, so offended. Not one person recognized me. I know. Not one. Not one. And we left. We gave her a good tip and we left. And I was like, so, so bummed. But anyway, that's my Cooper story. It's pretty cool inside, though. I think our set decoration did a pretty great job. But the real Cooper's is pretty cool. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, when people hear this podcast and they realize they might have been at Cooper's with Holly Flax and didn't know

[Angela Kinsey]

it,

[Jenna Fischer]

they're gonna be like, what day?

[Angela Kinsey]

What day?

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's part of, like, a whole Scranton the Office fan tour now. You know, they have, like, a whole tour, and you can go around Scranton and go to all the spots.

[Amy Ryan]

So maybe.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe don't go back, because maybe it will be the Beatles experience.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amy, before you were gonna come on the podcast, I admit, I googled you, which is a weird thing to do. It's weird to Google someone, you know,

[Angela Kinsey]

it is so weird.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so weird. And I, you know, had never done that before googled you, but I did, and I saw all of your stage work and stage experience, which I. I knew that you did theater, but I didn't know that you got your first touring job right out of school. That you toured with Biloxi Blues right

[Angela Kinsey]

out of high school?

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So did you ever have like that day job? Did you ever have or were you able to work pretty consistently as an actress right out of school?

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah. So I went to a performing arts high school in New York and then a month or so after graduation, I was cast in the touring company of Biloxi Blues and I toured for nine months and thought, well, that's easy. I'll work all the time. I guess I didn't work for a long time afterwards, but, but I, after the tour, you know, I was still only like 18, 19, so, you know, I went back home. So I didn't have rent. I was still, you know, my family, we lived in New York, so I was able to afford a life in New York by just being an actor and doing acting jobs until I moved out of the house in my mid-30s. I know, but I. No, yeah, I'm very lucky. I've only ever been an actor save before high school graduation. I worked at my aunt and uncle's ice cream shop in Vermont when I was 16. But, yeah, acting's been my only job.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's amazing.

[Amy Ryan]

It's kind of weird, but I, you know, I, I do think of how any young actor artist moves to la, moves to New York from other places or, you know, to Chicago with. I always think of that person like suitcase in hand and, you know, room share list, like my hat go just goes off to them because it's so hard. It's so hard. I don't know how people do it. You know, I was lucky that I already lived in New York and could go home for home cooked meals and all that kind of stuff. But I'm glad they're doing it somehow.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are you working on anything now, Amy?

[Amy Ryan]

I just finished this new first season of this Hulu series called Only Murders in the Building with Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena Gomez. And it was again, like, it was a throwback to again, Jenna, like you say, doing the comedies, like, oh, this feels fun. I'm in a good mood and certainly shooting through a pandemic. I wouldn't want to be on a heavy drama right now. It's just too intense. But it was a joy to be around those people during this time. But that's it. And I don't know what I'll do Next. Even after 33 years. Like, I never know what's next. So let's see what happens.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Amy, thank you so much for coming on Office Ladies and sharing your memories of being on the show. It was so cool to be back in touch with you and see you again.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, same here. I really miss you guys and I hope all's well with your families and hope to see you in person.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, that would be amazing. Jen and I have said we want to do like a, like an office lady's lunch, like call up all the guests.

[Amy Ryan]

That would be amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Have a lunch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wouldn't that be so fun? Yeah.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh gosh. Well, let's do it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do it. Thank you so much, Amy.

[Amy Ryan]

Thanks for having me on your show. I miss you all and hope to see you soon.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

You guys know Squarespace? We've talked about it for a long time because we love it. We use it every single day. It is our Office Ladies website. We have been growing as a company and we keep adding new features like dropdowns. We have a little shop icon, we have banners that say kind of what's happening on the podcast and it really is just such a great tool to build the perfect website for your company or whatever your passion is that you want to share with the world.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

And there's so many tools we haven't even used yet that Squarespace provides. I mean, lady, who knows what's next for us?

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I love her.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love her.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, when we got finished with that interview, you guys, I asked her what color were her walls? Because her room, it was like painted all this, like kind of dark blue, gray color, navy blue. Very cozy looking.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. And she was in a red dress and her hair was perfect. I kind of want to get that bob. I don't know if I can pull it off.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was such a cute Bob.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was. Well, you know, obviously we're going to put photos from our Zoomy Zoom in the Instagram.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So you can see it all. The wall, the bob. It's coming at you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, before we get into this episode, I need to share with you who was on the DVD commentary.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

But I'm going to let BJ tell you what.

[BJ Novak]

Welcome to the commentary on business ethics. This is BJ Novak speaking. And this is a very special commentary because I have with me here four of the most Beloved crew members on the office to give us a behind the scenes look at how things go not just with this episode, but every day for the past hundred episodes. So seated with me, why don't we make introductions. From my left.

[Amy Ryan]

Vortung Chikirian.

[Jenna Fischer]

Peter Evangelatos.

[BJ Novak]

Sergio Jacoman, Alan Mork. And here's how it works. There are.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Oh, my God. I know, I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I had the same reaction.

[Jenna Fischer]

And their voices are on the whole thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Oh, my goodness.

[Amy Ryan]

I did not.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, I know. I texted bj. I said, bj, I have teared up. I have laughed. I have had every emotion.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, guys. Okay. We should say who they are.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so Peter and Vartan, they did our craft services. They provided the cast and crew with stacks, drinks, meals, anything that you could want and fed us in overtime. We called them the snack masters. Peter was so beloved to us. He was like our grandpa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he took such good care of us. He passed away a few years ago. Our cast and crew were heartbroken. We loved this man. And it was a delight to get to hear his voice in this DVD commentary. I felt like I spent, you know, an evening with him when I rewatched it. And I texted BJ immediately and he said, oh, my God, Angela, where is this? Where can I hear it? Where does it live? He said, I'm so happy it made you happy. He said, I'm so happy it exists. And he said that he pitched that Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Alan do this commentary. And people were like, what? No, you're crazy. But he was like, you know, like, they are like our sustenance. They took such good care of us.

[Jenna Fischer]

We should say Sergio and Alan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

They were big time catering and they fed us lunch and breakfast.

[Angela Kinsey]

They did our big main meals. Yeah, Breakfast and lunch. And Peter and Vartan did everything in between. Yeah. And I really want to share with you what all they talked about on the DVD commentary.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

They talked about food the whole entire episode. I learned nothing about the actual episode, but I learned what everyone has for breakfast and people's particular, like, request. And it was so delightful. And I think the office fans are going to love this.

[Jenna Fischer]

You gotta say, okay. You have to share.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, okay, here we go. And then I promise we will get to business ethics, you guys. Okay, first of all, we love people's process. How is their day started? What do they do? Sergio and Alan shared that they got to set very, very early. Well, we knew this. I looked up our call sheets. You guys know I Have digital clutter. I have all of our call sheets for years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Average CAS call time started at 5am that meant hair and makeup had to be there at 4am that meant that Sergio and Alan had to have a full breakfast ready at 4am wow. So they would go to bed at 7pm and get up between midnight and 1am to be at work at 2am to start cooking. Alan said every morning I was cooking bacon at 3am and they kind of joked that he was like Michael Scott. He, like, woke up and had to start cooking bacon. But, you know, they fed breakfast to around 150 people.

[Amy Ryan]

Yep.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because the crew got a hot breakfast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Everybody, everybody. Cast and crew. Sergio and Alan. Like, BJ would just mention someone's name and they knew their breakfast order.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, say, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ready?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Steve would have mushrooms, ground turkey, egg white scramble with a side of ketchup.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Rain would have a veggie scramble with egg whites and one piece of wheat toast. Jenna.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Would have two egg whites scrambled with a little bit of cheese.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

Paul Lieberstein would have an egg white scramble with onions and peppers with Sergio's famous homemade egg white salsa on the side.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were very into egg whites as a cast, I'm discovering.

[Angela Kinsey]

Keep it coming. Kate had egg white scramble with turkey bacon. Oscar curveball grilled cheese with tomato. Amy Ryan, who's our guest this week, Spinach and egg scramble. Now, some cast members had their breakfast order become classics because they became so popular.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

So you could order these three. We've already discussed the Rasheeda special.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Remember, invented by Rasheeda. Black beans, turkey bacon, avocado, egg whites, Sergio salsa, two corn tortillas on the side.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. That's a Rasheeda.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was the most popular. Okay, okay. The Rashita.

[Jenna Fischer]

Inventing the most popular breakfast.

[Angela Kinsey]

In fact, it was like one of Mindy's regular orders was the Rashita. Okay. The Johnny K, invented by John Krasinski. Tomatoes and broccoli with egg whites and a little cheddar cheese. Sounds right. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kind of gross. I don't want to eat broccoli first thing in the morning. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm not gonna lie. There were, you know, a few times I would cross over here and make up with John. It didn't smell good.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's coming back to me now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Smell good. Okay. The Creed special. I learned something. Creed is apparently a big goat cheese fan. He loves goat cheese in the morning. Oh, yeah. So they said that he would have goat cheese spinach onions and egg whites with green tea. Oh. They also shared the two cast members who were always there the earliest.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, let me guess.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kate and Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

Leslie and Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And, you know, I looked at the call sheets. Leslie, Phyllis, me and Kate were always called in at 5am okay. The four of us, I clearly didn't make the early list, but Leslie would order his breakfast at 4:45.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Sergio and Alan also did a huge lunch with multiple meat, fish, veggie choices, salad bar, dessert bar. But they said there was one item they featured just on a whim at the dessert table. And it became incredibly popular. And if they wouldn't have it, people would, like, get, like, annoyed. They'd be like, where is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I guess?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was it the warm chocolate chip cookie bar?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Yes. It was the chocolate chip cookie cake. And they served it, like, hot and melted, kind of gooey. It was so good, you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

The chocolate chip cookie cake was Steve Carell's, like, kryptonite. I don't know. This guy would eat so healthy, but he had to eat this chocolate chip cookie cake.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is one treat. But literally, they said they didn't think much about it. They made it one time, and then everybody. Everyone was like, where is it? Where is it? They had to make it, like, every day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So now I have to talk about Peter and Vartan. They were the snack masters. They had kind of like a full kitchen right on the set, right outside the Dunder Mifflin bullpen.

[Amy Ryan]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, they had a fridge. You could have cereal, they had milk, that you could make your own sandwich. But they would also have a little food bar. And here's what they had to share. Peter talked about how he had been in the business forever. He also said, I thought this was kind of funny that our cast, we were tea obsessed. He had hundreds of different types of teas. And you might have noticed that I didn't make Sergio and Alan's breakfast list

[Jenna Fischer]

because you would never eat an egg

[Angela Kinsey]

in the morning because Peter and Vartan got donuts every morning. So I would go get a donut from Peter and Vartan. Also, BJ liked the Porto's coffee cake. And then Peter said sometimes he would make you and I sandwiches.

[Jenna Fischer]

He would.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he said he loved doing it. And he would put them on a porcelain plate and bring them to us.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm crying again.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, I know. He took such good care of us.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can't explain to you, like, the care with which he would make us a sandwich. It's so silly and simple. But he would. He'd put it on a porcelain plate, and he'd always, like, garnish it with some cute little, like, fruit or, like,

[Angela Kinsey]

a little, like, he'd cut into a shape or.

[Jenna Fischer]

It really was. It was like your grandpa made you a sandwich.

[Angela Kinsey]

It really was.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you felt so loved.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was so happy to do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

He said that he would make you a tuna fish sandwich, and he'd make me ham and cheese. I cried through this commentary, Jenna. I laughed so hard because Peter and Vartan give each other, like, such a hard time. Lovingly. And they're so funny. Alan called them the Middle Eastern odd couple because Peter is from Greece and Vartan is from Iraq. They had a hilarious banter, the two of them. They also talked about their infamous 10am hot snack.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hot snack.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. Peter said they like to mix it up every day. He said on Mondays, for example, there'd be tacos and burritos. One of the most popular hot snack items was Alban de Gas soup. Well, they talked about that, but they said they're turkey chili. Oh, they said their turkey chili they had to serve twice a week. People wanted it. They loved it. Ed Helms, in particular loved the turkey chili, and he came up with a little tip.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it, Ed?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, they had garnishes on the side for the chili. They had shredded cheese, and they had onions. Ed would put the raw onions at the bottom of his bowl, add the hot turkey chili on top, and the heat from the chili would caramelize the onions at the bottom.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. It became a thing, so. And much like our Dunder Mifflin counterparts, they said the cast and crew had their favorite pizza places to order from if we went into overtime and we got second meal. Steve loved Mulberry's pizza, and we all loved Barone's pizza. Yes, it was a delight. You guys, I just have to tell you, we loved these men so much. I was lucky enough to work with Sergio again when I guest starred on Mindy's show. Never have I ever. She still wants Sergio on her projects. It was so awesome. These guys were our family.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And they took such good care of us. And if you have ever wondered why, the only thing my dad talked about was the food when he visited set. Listen to this commentary.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved it, too. And I know I went on and on, but I had to share it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I hope everyone else found it interesting because I loved that trip down memory lane. Thank you, Angela. You're Welcome.

[Angela Kinsey]

Welcome. All right. Shall we get into this episode?

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess we can. I will pull myself together.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

This episode starts with Jim and Pam on the phone. Pam is kind of mad because nobody congratulated her on her engagement. And Jim says, yeah, I didn't tell anyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then he's like, let's tell him. And he puts Pam on speakerphone, and it goes, I think exactly how Jim thought it would go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. It ends with Michael arriving and hearing the news and tackling Jim to the floor. We got a fan question from Kyle T. And Peyton M. How was the stunt done where Michael knocks Jim over with a hug?

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, John's face is just amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, that is a really hard thing to do, to know you're gonna be tackled. But keep your body relaxed and not, like, wince. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not expect the tackle.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I wasn't there. I was backstage on a phone, so I didn't see it go down. Angela, do you remember, was there, like, a mattress or something that they landed on?

[Angela Kinsey]

There was a big, blue, squishy thing. You know what I mean? A big blue square. It looked like a gymnastics kind of mat, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

But it was so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have to imagine John lost it, because John did not do well in scenes like that, especially with Steve. Like, I don't.

[Angela Kinsey]

My memory of it is they didn't do it very many times. Okay, well, now we're into the episode. It's Ethics Day. Holly has passed out a form everyone has to fill out. She's going to be taking this seriously.

[Jenna Fischer]

She is. She explains that she is going to be running her first meeting. But don't worry. We talked about this with Amy Ryan. Michael's going to help her out, and they're going to start it off with their version of let's Get Physical with

[Angela Kinsey]

headbands and dancing and a boombox. Jenna, I worked in corporate America. I have been in human resources seminars that we had to go to. I'm telling you, they had skits.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

When I watched this, I had such a flood of memories coming back of sitting in a tiny little conference room when I worked at this company and our human resources department, there were two people. They would come in and act out skits of what's inappropriate. We had one guy, his name was Tom, and we had a gal, her name was Susan. And he'd be like, susan, that skirt looks really nice on you today. Hey, time to party. And then Susan would do a face like, huh? And then they'd freeze. And then Tom would say, what was inappropriate in this moment. And we'd all have to raise our hands and be like, he was kind of gross about her skirt.

[Jenna Fischer]

I only had to watch, like, produced videos of weird things. I've never seen a live presentation.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no. I watch skits.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had a fan question about this scene from Patricia B. She said, I'm wondering if some of the younger office fans even know the song that Holly and Michael are performing. She wants to know, Angela, did your kids watch this one with you? Did you have to explain the song parody?

[Angela Kinsey]

Isabel watched it with me. She didn't ask about the song. She just thought it was funny. She probably thinks we made it up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. This was, I guess, for our younger listeners, a very famous song by Olivia Newton John, let's Get Physical. And the music video was, like, her in, like, an aerobics class singing and dancing with a headband. Jane Fonda had, like, these workout videos at the time, too. This was, like, a little trend.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sexy working out.

[Angela Kinsey]

But your sexy workout included tights, leg warmers, high tops, leotard.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

Headband. Wristband.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a whole thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was. I remember it well. Well, Holly begins her ethics meeting by explaining that there's been some misconduct. She's clearly talking about Ryan, who's been hired again.

[Angela Kinsey]

So hilarious.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I know. And then she starts going through the results of the quiz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, pretty much. She's got this binder.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she's got to go through the binder.

[Jenna Fischer]

The HR binder.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had a fan question from Peyton M. In the conference room scene. Did Creed and Meredith actually break when Stanley said the meeting was a waste of time, or was it script scripted for them to laugh While I looked at the script? It was scripted. The script said people laugh a lot. That was the direction in the script.

[Angela Kinsey]

So the meeting isn't going so great. And Michael's like, you're losing them. Yeah. She pulls Holly aside. You are losing them. They expect a lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. It's really sweet. He's trying to help her in this meeting because he really wants her to succeed. So he says, let's get rid of the binder. This is your opportunity to speak up without any repercussions. He's like, guys, what are some things maybe you've done at work to waste time? What have you done? Anything or anything you want to share?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. You have immunity. Go for it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, during this time, Michael confesses that he didn't work for five days when he discovered YouTube.

[Angela Kinsey]

That made me laugh so hard.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said he watched Cookie Monster sings Chocolate Rain about A thousand times.

[Angela Kinsey]

Did you go watch it?

[Jenna Fischer]

I had to know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Of course.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's the thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

Chocolate Rain, according to its Wikipedia page, was a song by American singer Tay Zonde.

[Angela Kinsey]

I went and watched Tay's last night.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, you did?

[Angela Kinsey]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

You watched it as well?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he wrote this song and he uploaded a video to YouTube. It was 4 minutes, 52 seconds long. He uploaded it, everyone, because I know you Want to know. April 22, 2007.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember. It went viral.

[Jenna Fischer]

Viral.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like before things went viral.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was ranked the hottest viral video of summer 2007, and it was awarded the 2008 YouTube Award in the category of music. So this song then became the subject of, like, parodies, remixes, tributes. It was everywhere.

[Angela Kinsey]

Even Cookie Monster.

[Jenna Fischer]

Not Cookie Monster.

[Amy Ryan]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

We made that up. There was no Cookie Monster sings Chocolate Rain. They wrote that. And after the episode aired, people made them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ah, no way.

[Jenna Fischer]

I didn't know that. Isn't that crazy?

[Angela Kinsey]

That is crazy. You know, I did go to. To every version you could imagine of this song. I looked it up and I did notice the one where Cookie Monster is singing it. The first comment said, who else is here? Because of Michael Scott.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Michael has opened the door to confession time and people are just letting it fly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. The big confession comes from Meredith, who says that she has been having a six year affair with the Hammermill rep in exchange for discounts on our supplies. And also Outback Steakhouse gift certificates.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bruce Myers, Bruce Meyers and Meredith. Six years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, here's something. Wasn't there in that previous episode. We finally landed the Hammer Mill replacement when they went to that big conference and it was only a few, remember? I think there's a little continuity catch here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Continuity error.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So she's been sleeping with him for six years, but we only just landed him, like, two years ago. I don't know, Meredith.

[Angela Kinsey]

Show Bible.

[Jenna Fischer]

Show Bible.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sort it out, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Holly is troubled.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Holly is like, this is a serious ethics violation. I have to report this.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna, There was one other confession that rattled someone else. What? Ryan made a confession and Kevin is like, what? This is the beginning of the runner. Sam, can you play it?

[BJ Novak]

Last year, you guys were riding me really hard for the website, and I just peeled out my Z3 and I knocked the mirror off somebody's car. I never said a thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, what?

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Kevin's like, what? And then immediately after this conference room scene, Kevin approaches Ryan in the kitchen and confronts him.

[Jenna Fischer]

You knocked the mirror off of my car?

[BJ Novak]

Yeah. Isn't that messed up?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[BJ Novak]

That guy did a lot of things I'm not proud of. Wait, when you say that guy, do you.

[Angela Kinsey]

You mean you?

[BJ Novak]

I mean the guy I used to be. I'm Ryan 2.0. And if it makes you feel any better, that guy did a lot of messed up stuff to me too.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, you mean that you did a

[BJ Novak]

lot of messed up stuff to you. Look, I feel you too, okay? That guy took no responsibility for his actions.

[Jenna Fischer]

But are you gonna pay for my mirror?

[BJ Novak]

If I have to answer for everything that guy did, I'm never gonna move on.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was like $200.

[BJ Novak]

We're never gonna get what we need from that guy.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, my love of Ryan in this rewatch, and I am so sad that did not make it in the episode, but I am so glad it exists.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know I showed it to Sam and Sam was like, I know these people. I know these people.

[BJ Novak]

Yeah, that's a good example of Los Angeles.

[Angela Kinsey]

But yeah. So Kevin gets Ryan back by putting his sunglasses, his really nice sunglasses in the toaster oven.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Melts them. But that was Kevin 1.0.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He can't be responsible for what that guy did.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. So that was the Ryan Kevin runner that got deleted because we just ran out of time. But I thought it was so great.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so good. So now we have the scene where Michael and Holly are gonna meet privately with Meredith to discuss her liaison. Yes. You know, Michael is trying very hard to help Meredith say the things she needs to say to get out of trouble.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Meredith is not getting it.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's not getting it at all. And Kate is so funny in this scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

So funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we do have a classic gym prank.

[Jenna Fischer]

We get a gym prank.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. It's been a bit. And I thought it was so funny. And I can tell that John and Rain were having such a good time just cause we know them. Like you gave John that prop, that stopwatch.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's loving that stopwatch.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's loving it. Yeah. Dwight had said in the conference room that he doesn't do anything personal at work.

[Jenna Fischer]

He wastes no time.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wastes no time. And so Jim's gonna show him he's gonna like time every single thing he does.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, right about now is when we would have gone to see Pam at art school. And I'm gonna tell you about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay?

[Jenna Fischer]

So Pam and her classmates, they get to class and there's a note on the door. No class today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Canceled.

[Jenna Fischer]

Canceled. So her friends are like, let's go get Drinks. And Pam's like, I can't. And her friend Alex, who was played by Rich Summer, says, what do you have to do? You're supposed to be in class right now. We know you don't have plans. So they get her to go to this tiki bar for a little day drinking. And I totally remember shooting this, Angela. We're all drinking out of this big, giant volcano bowl. There's a flame. It's on fire. Yeah, we had to have a safety meeting about it. And in the scene, two of the other art students, they're trying to decode this text message. They're wondering what to text back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it's like a guy, right? So she's like, wanting to text a guy back but not seem, like, too into him. You know how you have to write the perfect text back Exactly. To someone you're into, but you don't want to seem too desperate?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Pam is spiraling. Remember I said in the other episode that we purposely cast people who would seem younger and hipper than Pam so she would be this fish out of water in art school?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, she's kind of spiraling about that. And she has this great crazy monologue that she blurts out, sam, will you play the Pam tiki bar scene for me?

[Angela Kinsey]

He put a wink at the end. Does that mean something? Mm, means he's a dork.

[Jenna Fischer]

So how do I write back?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, showing him that I'm also a dork?

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, he knows.

[Jenna Fischer]

Don't ask me. I don't even know what I'm doing here. I'm, like, way older than you guys. I mean, like, I have a fiance and I had, like, a 10 year plan. And, like, is graphic design even art at this point? I thought that I would be married and running my own art company,

[Angela Kinsey]

But

[Jenna Fischer]

I would just put, like, big lol, little lol winky face. Oh, okay. Okay. I thought that was so interesting. We just got a window into what Pam thought her life would be. She says at this point she thought she would be married and running her own art company.

[Angela Kinsey]

What does she mean by art company?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

It sounds like something like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like a kid grader.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, like someday I'm gonna own an art company.

[Jenna Fischer]

Does that mean she sells art supplies?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

What does she mean by that? I don't know. I thought it was so. It was such a window into Pam.

[Angela Kinsey]

I thought I did too. And, you know, it goes on to show that she drank the whole volcano herself. Basically.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. There are more scenes at this bar. She gets to really tipsy. But then she has this really peppy talking head where she says, if she were in Scranton right now, she'd be an alcoholic. But she's not. She's in New York. So she's a moody artist. She loves New York.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I was really bummed that these scenes got cut because one of the art students, the guy who you hear trying to help the girl with her text message, was played by one of my very good friends. And in real life, John Cabrera. You might know him because he was a longtime cast member on Gilmore Girls. He played Brian Fuller. He was the bass player in Lane's band. So we filmed all of these scenes at Pam's art school. They never made it into an episode. He doesn't even have a credit on IMDb for being on the Office because all his scenes got cut. But we had the best time.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna, have you ever had a volcano? No. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Have you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Once.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Once in a while.

[Jenna Fischer]

I thought we made that up. That's a real thing. Is it on fire?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, it's served.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sam is nodding like, how many have you had, Sam?

[BJ Novak]

Sorry. That was the most aggressive I've ever.

[Jenna Fischer]

You like?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, It's a staple of the tiki bar community. Yeah, I've had one. That's all you'll ever need to have. I had one at a bar in Manhattan beach for a friend's birthday. We got the volcano. Cause my friend's birthday, you know, we were, like, 25 years old. It's a huge, huge bowl. It comes on fire. All these different straws in it. It's usually a mixture of, like, pineapple or grapefruit or lime juice, maple syrup, several different types of rums.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I felt real gross the next day. And what's so funny is I had Pam's experience. Like, you're just all drinking it. You can't tell who's had more more or what, because there's all these straws flopping out of it. And the photos from this evening are real special. We all decided to see if we could do the splits.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, it was one of those nights.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't do the splits. No, you do it. I do it. So, volcano guys, tread lightly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Am I too old to have this experience? I think so. Damn it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You won't feel good.

[Jenna Fischer]

The next day, I missed my chance. I started drinking late in life.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I really did.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it's okay that you navigated your life without having the volcano experience.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know. I'm having some fomo. Well, now Michael is going to invite Holly to lunch because it's okay if, like, two attractive people go to lunch. You know, they work together, they're attractive, they can eat lunch.

[Angela Kinsey]

They can eat lunch. It's not an official date. And there was a deleted Michael talking head that if it was an official date, Holly would know because it would go like this. No, this is not an official date.

[Amy Ryan]

When it is an official date, she

[Angela Kinsey]

will be aware of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

There will be a rose.

[Angela Kinsey]

There will be music and dancing. Bottle of red, bottle of white, bottle of water. I have to drink more water. Some whispered conversation, some giggling, a little wine. We head back to her place. I will skip ahead to protect our dignity. But we make hardcore love. And then we fall asleep on her lanai to the sound of the full moon moon. And then chocolate chip pancakes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I haven't had a volcano, but I've had that date.

[Angela Kinsey]

You've had that date?

[Jenna Fischer]

I've had that date.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's a good date. I just want a shirt that says hardcore love. And you know what? You gotta fall asleep to the sound of the moon.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do. You do. Oh, well, he suggests that they go to Cooper's restaurant. And I've got some good information to share about that. So why don't we take a break and we'll come back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Great. So I have a little fashion thing I've been doing lately.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, I don't know if you've noticed, but next to my watch on my wrist, I've started stacking a few little bangle y bracelets.

[Jenna Fischer]

It looks good, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

So I have this gold one on right now that I love. It's called the Penelope bracelet by Jenny Bird. Have you been on their website? It's so great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, I have earrings. Coming from Jenny Bird. Jenny Bird is amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

What I'm learning is that one great little jewelry accent can make you look put together.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's true. This is a thing that stylists have taught me over the years. If you add a piece of jewelry or like, a belt maybe, or just you don't just get dressed, then there's an extra step, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

So it's like, oh, maybe I'm just in, like, a regular T shirt and jeans, but I've got this great little bracelet that makes me look like I'm like, mm, look at me. I'm sassy. So here's the thing. Their pieces are lightweight. They're comfortable. They go with everything. They're not fussy, but they make you look fantastic. And I like that because I'm Not a fussy person.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're not a fussy person. You can get 20% off your first order with Jenny Bird by visiting jenny-bird.com and use code office ladies at checkout. You have heard us talk about quints before, but I've got a quints story for you. I talked about the jeans that the cool mom complimented me. I got those on quints. I was at a book club and one of the ladies told me she bought the jeans and she loves them. We're really getting the word out about Quint's.

[Angela Kinsey]

We love Quince. Go to their website. They have so many great products and they're really well made. Like the little sweater that I've been wanting. It's back in stock, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories. They cut out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores. Just great quality clothing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Go to quince.com officeladies for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q u I n c e.com officeladies for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Angela Kinsey]

Quince.com officeladies did you know that Whole

[Jenna Fischer]

Foods is color coded now? If you go through the store and you see a yellow sign. Mm. Yellow sign means sale. Oh. It means low price. Same high quality. But it means sale.

[Angela Kinsey]

Huh?

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I love Whole Foods Market when it comes time for easy dinners because they have so many things that are really great. And I'm sometimes on the rush, like when Josh isn't cooking. Then it's left to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just want to go in and grab a few things. They have burritos ready to go, soups, so much more.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, they have the best empanadas. Have you gotten their empanadas? I have. They're so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, and also for those weeknight shortcuts, you can go to the aisles that feature the 365 brand. Rice, beans, chunky salsas.

[Jenna Fischer]

Voila.

[Angela Kinsey]

You could have taco night like that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Whole Foods Market just makes it easy to eat well. So try something new and stay on budget. Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market.

[Angela Kinsey]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, we are going to take a moment to celebrate women and all that they carry at work, in relationships, in families, and in the many roles they hold every single day. And we need to remind ourselves about how much we matter and that therapy offers a space for us to take care of ourselves in the way we deserve.

[Jenna Fischer]

Therapy can also be a place to set boundaries and build confidence. Just take care of your own well being for a change. BetterHelp makes therapy accessible and flexible. Their therapists are fully licensed in the US and follow a strict code of conduct.

[Angela Kinsey]

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

[Jenna Fischer]

Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com officeladies that's better.

[Angela Kinsey]

H E L p.com officeladies.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, we are back. Michael and Holly have gone to lunch. We got fan questions from Kelly W, Sammy B. And Carolyn P. What is the restaurant that Holly and Michael went to? Angela, you saw the outside shot of this restaurant?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I've been there. In real life, it is a real

[Jenna Fischer]

restaurant in Scranton called Cooper's Seafood House. And we did not go to Cooper's. So we used a shot of the outside, the interior. I got all the scoop from jamesapedia.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jamesapedia is back. And Amy Ryan said they did an amazing job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amazing, right? I looked at pictures online of the real Coopers and I compared them to screenshots because that's what I do now, I guess, is that. And we really congratulations to our set designers. They did a great job redressing this.

[Angela Kinsey]

What did jamesapedia have?

[Jenna Fischer]

Jamesapedia said that we shot the interior at Clancy's Crab broiler in Glendale, California, that we started shooting at 8am that day. And there was a note on the call sheet that said the restaurant will be open for business at 11am so they had three hours to film all of those restaurant scenes. Oh. And I asked him, I said, now, when it says they're going to open back up at 11am does that mean we have to be done filming and get all our stuff out? Because we changed the look of the restaurant. And he said what we would normally do is we would get in there really, really early and dress it, do our scenes and get out as much as we can by 11 o'.

[Amy Ryan]

Clock.

[Jenna Fischer]

But they would go back the next day to like do a full cleanup. So the patrons that day ate in a kind of hybrid restaurant of Clancy's Crab Broiler slash Cooper seafood.

[Angela Kinsey]

Say that 10 times fast.

[Jenna Fischer]

I could barely say Clancy's one crab broiler. Clancy's crab broiler.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here's a little something about Cooper's.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Brian Baumgartner and I went there in 2007 in Scranton. If you go to Cooper's Seafood House website online, there are a bunch of photos in their gallery section of Brian

[Jenna Fischer]

and I. I saw them.

[Angela Kinsey]

One in particular. I am barefoot and standing on top of a table.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I missed that one.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a good one. I'll put it. I'll put it in our stories. Clearly, Brian and I were there to have a good time, and we did. We had a blast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this scene originally started with Michael ordering for he and Holly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. He was going to be fancy man on a date. He said this restaurant was business romantic.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's what he ordered. We'll have the chowders to start. Then the lobster feast for two. And do you have a house red? And then he wants you to know, house makes a great red. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like. Where did he come up with that? He heard that somewhere someone was like, the house wine is very good. The house makes a great red. And now he's like, he thinks the house is the winery.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, Holly says she just wants a chef salad, no dressing, with an iced tea. Yeah, she's not going to have any house red. And then the waitress says to Michael, do you still want the two lobsters? And Michael says, yes, yes, I do,

[Angela Kinsey]

because now he's a little embarrassed.

[Jenna Fischer]

So later in the scene, when you see Michael and he's got two lobsters and a big bowl of soup and a red wine, this is why.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, it's at 13 minutes, 44 seconds. You'll see how he ordered double.

[Jenna Fischer]

Incidentally, on the Cooper's menu, there is a recurring Tuesday special called Twin Tails and a cup of soup. And it is two lobster tails and a bread bowl of soup. And I am dying to know if this Tuesday special predated this episode of the Office or if they created this as a special after Michael ordered two lobster tails and a bowl of soup. I don't know how to find out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we'll have to go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Anyone? Cooper's? Anyone? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here's the thing. We are going to Scranton.

[Jenna Fischer]

We are?

[Angela Kinsey]

I can't wait.

[Jenna Fischer]

Should we order two lobster tails and a bowl of soup and the house red?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're gonna do so much eating in Scranton.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like, the bulk of our trip there is just eating our way through Scranton.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this lunch, it just is not going well. They cannot get on the same page about what to do with Meredith.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, they can't. Michael was trying to just connect with Holly, get to know her. He asks her, you know, about where she grew up? Des Moines. We find out she's from Des Moines, Iowa.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Holly is being business. This is a business lunch. And she feels gross about Meredith. They have this couplet of dialogue that really sums it up. Holly says, I'm saying that Meredith's behavior is unethical and a little icky, and I don't think I want to work in an environment where that sort of conduct is tolerated. Michael says, well, you have to tolerate a lot when you're a part of a family. And Holly delivers such a low blow. If you know Michael. She says, it's not a family. It's a workplace. Oh, my gosh, the look on his face. Like, how do they come back from this?

[Jenna Fischer]

Meanwhile, back at the office, Jim is really trying to trap Dwight into wasting time. He's trying to get him to have personal conversations. He tries to explain an episode of Battlestar Galactica to Andy, purposely getting everything wrong and inserting all kinds of other characters.

[Angela Kinsey]

All kinds of other characters. He says, it's like the crazy monsters and stuff. There's Klingons and Wookiees. He says, there's a guy named Dumbledore. They're trying to get a ring back to Morgan. This is triggering every button in Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved Rain in this scene where he just was. And I also just loved the way John would hold up the stopwatch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. They were doing this beautiful, like, comedic dance. It was so good.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was so good. You know, we had a fan point out. Lindsay H. Said, I am so impressed with the camera focus when Jim is talking to Andy about Battlestar Galactic Star wars slash Harry Potter slash Lord of the Rings Star Wars. Anyway, she says the camera focuses on Jim, then Dwight, and back and forth so quickly and flawlessly. She just wanted to give kudos to our camera operators. Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, John and Rain are doing this dance, but they're in it with the camera operator, and that was flawless. I agree, Lindsay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

We also had a fan catch from Justin S. Jenna, I know you and Phyllis are both from St. Louis, and I'm a big Cardinals fan myself. And I couldn't help but notice that there is a free bird on Phyllis's desk over Dwight's shoulder. And I was just wondering, how did the free bird get there? Guys, I texted Phyllis about it. Yeah, we don't know. She said, oh, maybe that was when David Freese and Matt Holliday came to visit and I was like, no, they haven't come to visit yet. I'll tell you guys that story later. That was amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

You guys were so excited.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I know they hadn't visited yet because Ellie was with us when they visited. So Phyllis and I went back and forth and she's like, I didn't bring it in. She said, I don't know who put it there. I didn't put it there. Phyllis didn't put it there. We don't know who put it there. Well, Justin, I'm sorry. I'm going to try to get to the bottom of it, you know, Answer pending.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, Jim has a talking head that Dwight hasn't stopped working for a second. He even sneezed with his eyes open. Which Jim was like, I didn't know that was possible, you guys. He peed in a soda bottle. He peed under his desk. I mean, he is not gonna waste any time.

[Jenna Fischer]

I had to know if you can sneeze with your eyes open.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can't.

[Jenna Fischer]

You can. What? Yeah, mythbusters did a whole story on it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mythbusters.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I watched it late last night when I suddenly had to know.

[Angela Kinsey]

We both went on two random tangents. Just wait for mine.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is yours about the average amount of time someone has sex? Because I went on that tangent too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Oh, my God. Okay. Because there's. All of a sudden, Dwight is like, not wasting time. Not wasting time. And then he comes back and Jim is like 19 minutes and 48 seconds. What were you up to? And Dwight is like, none of your business, basically. And then it cuts to Angela Martin buttoning her blouse. Did you read the research on Business Insider?

[Jenna Fischer]

I read several articles at, like, midnight last night.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

On this subject.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our search history. Oh, my God. Delete our search history. First of all, the one research I read about was fascinating because they gave 500 couples stopwatches. It is as awkward as it sounds. They had to hit start and stop.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know how we talk about this, but maybe parents, if you're listening

[Angela Kinsey]

with your kids, earmuffs for 30 seconds. Earmuffs?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. They had to record their sex time over a four week period.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they had to press start on the stopwatch at the moment of penetration. Oh, God. And they had to press stop at ejaculation.

[Angela Kinsey]

We read the same article. Oh, my God. You know what I found? Amazing is the range was from 33 seconds to 44 minutes. Yeah, that's a huge, huge variation.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. And then what was really interesting to me was I read this whole article by a sex therapist who, after doing a bunch of research, broke down the ideal amount of penetration time in a sex act. I mean, this is insane. I told Lee all last night, everything I'd read. He's like, how are you sharing this on offer, ladies? I was like, I don't know. But I found it so fascinating.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

So what she found was that in surveying the person being penetrated, that their ideal amount of penetration time in sex was anywhere from 5 to 11 minutes. But all of sex, they all wanted more than just penetration. So she deemed that, like, the ideal amount of sex encompassing more than just that moment would be around 19 minutes, and that it should consist of 10 minutes of foreplay and nine minutes of actual intercourse, that she felt this was the bullseye after all of her research.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, something I discovered in my research is that of these 500 couples surveyed, the average time was 5.4 minutes. And this was true across continents. I mean, literally, it's a global thing. And this got me to thinking 19 minutes and 48 seconds. Yeah, I did the math. I think it took them six minutes to get down to the warehouse, six

[Jenna Fischer]

minutes to walk down a set of

[Angela Kinsey]

stairs or take the elevator. It's not close. They have to go in the elevator or stairs, and they have to go down the corridor through the warehouse to that back room. Open it up.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so six minutes to get there. They need six minutes back.

[Angela Kinsey]

That leaves them six minutes in the middle. Oh, I think they had six minutes to shag.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I think what we've discovered in all our research is you can have a really satisfying shag in six minutes.

[Angela Kinsey]

By the way, this article went on to the evolution of sex. Why is there thrusting? It was fascinating. I was fascinated.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, the things we have learned and

[Angela Kinsey]

shared with you all. So you're welcome.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, let's get back to this Michael Holly story. Okay. This whole lunch has really strained things between Michael and Holly. When he gets back, he has a talking head where he says he won't even ride the elevator with her, and then he throws her leftovers in the trash. Yeah, and then up in the kitchen, he's pouring himself some coffee. She puts her cup out. Not only does he not pour coffee in her cup, he takes the whole pot and walks out of the kitchen.

[Angela Kinsey]

She called Dunder Mifflin a workplace, and it is his family, and you do not do that.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do not. If Holly wants to use the copier now, she's going to have to wait For Michael to copy a plaque off the wall first.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, well, Holly has a talking head. Things are tense. People are suspicious of her. Her best friend in the office won't even speak to her. So now we have a little window into Holly. She really sees Michael as her best friend.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now, Angela, in the script, there was a scene here where Michael calls Toby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

For help with Holly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. It's in the deleted scenes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, guys, it's so good, because Toby basically says at the end of all of this, oh, well, Michael, I think Holly's doing the right thing. And in fact, now that you've told me, I'm obligated to report this Meredith incident to HR as well. Yeah, but that's how desperate Michael is, is he's gonna call Toby, who I guess is still in a hospital in

[Angela Kinsey]

Costa Rica, and he's still not nice to him. He calls Toby for help, but he's still not nice.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is not the last HR rep that's gonna be involved. Kendall from corporate has called, and Holly's going to come in Michael's office, and they're going to discuss it with Kendall.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had a fan question from Megan Q, who voices Kendall from corporate hr. Kendall was played by John Hartman. Now, the role of Kendall was first mentioned in the episode the Job when David Wallace mentions his dislike for the HR rep, Kendall during Jim's job interview in New York.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow, that's a major callback.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. But we also brought him up again in weight loss, I guess. And here's the thing. Kendall is going to come back two more times this season. He comes back in person in Stress Relief and Company Picnic. He's always played by John Hartman. You might recognize John. He had roles in Mad Men, Arrested Development, the Good Place, Blackish, Space Force, and Monk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ah, there it is.

[Amy Ryan]

Of course.

[Angela Kinsey]

There it is. Well, you think Kendall is going to get Holly's back, right. And agree with her, but instead, he just shuts her down, Says he doesn't really see this as a huge infraction. And what she needed to do was to get everyone through that binder. That was her job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, we just needed you to get signatures. Are you able to get signatures or not? Because every other branch got signatures.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I think Michael feels badly for her in this moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel badly for her.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do, too. She's doing the right thing, and corporate doesn't have her back.

[Jenna Fischer]

So Holly is just going to go out to the bullpen and say, hey, guys, I have to finish this ethics training. She has to finish reading from the binder so she can say she did it. No one is giving her any respect. Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. Well, Michael's gonna step up. Yeah. Because he does feel bad for her. So he goes out there and he goes, if you don't get in there right now, he loses it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so funny. Everyone goes in. She reads from the binder, and the look on Michael's face as she's, like, reading from the boring binder. He's in love again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I don't think he ever fell out of love. They had their first spat.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess they did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Because Holly looks appreciative. They're both like, oh, okay, we're back.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're gonna get through this.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

At the very end of this episode, we have a tag. Everyone's in the break room. They're eating steak. That was clearly provided by Meredith. We had a fan question from Kelly

[Angela Kinsey]

W. Okay, Kelly, what is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

During the last scene when everyone's eating steak in the break room, what is everyone actually eating? Is it prop food or actually real expensive steak? Steak. And Savi A wants to know. Angela, what were you eating since your character is a vegetarian?

[Angela Kinsey]

I was eating potatoes.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what it looked like to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was eating potatoes. That's something we thought about. One of the things that Peter and Vartan shared is that our prop food was amazingly good food.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That they didn't give us, like, kind of crappy food to eat in scenes. And Peter and Vartan would work with props, but I would have to think that that Phil Shea and his team got us really good food from a restaurant.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was gonna be my guess. Whenever I ate food in a scene, it was delicious.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So it was probably some really good steak.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

What a day at work. Hey, guys, come in and eat these steak and ribs for an hour.

[Angela Kinsey]

Angela, you can have these potatoes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sorry, Ange. Well, there you have it. That's business ethics.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Thank you so much to Amy Ryan.

[Jenna Fischer]

And thank you to James o' Carey for giving me the lowdown on Cooper's.

[Angela Kinsey]

And thank you to BJ Novak for pitching Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Alan to do the DVD commentary. That was just so wonderful. If you guys love the show, you'll love these commentaries.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think on that note, we might go have a volcano.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I hope all of you guys have some hardcore love in your life

[Jenna Fischer]

for approximately 19 minutes or an average of six minutes. That would be fine. See you next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bye, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Lady's second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Matt Beagle.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our second Drinks episodes are produced by Molly Nugent.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratt. Lady, have you ever invested in something that seemed really amazing at first but then did not live up to the hype?

[Jenna Fischer]

I once got this kind of fancy jacket that looked amazing in the store, but then I wore it out once and I realized it was not comfortable and now it just lives in my closet collecting dust.

[Angela Kinsey]

LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend.

[Jenna Fischer]

Bullspend is when you optimize for numbers that look great. Impressions reach reactions, but then those numbers don't actually drive revenue. Invest in what actually looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generate the highest ROAS 121% of all major ad networks. You can reach the right buyers by targeting company, industry, job title and more.

[Angela Kinsey]

So cut the bull. Spend advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com office that's LinkedIn.com office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Having the right people in your corner. It just makes all the difference lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

Having you in my corner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw. Well, right back at you. Well, we are working with State Farm and one of the things I like about State Farm is knowing that you have that support. Because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Whether you need coverage for your car or your home, you can choose the right amount of coverage for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. You can go [e-mail] or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility variables vary by state.