Second Drink: Grief Counseling

Summary

Office Ladies - Episode Summary: Second Drink: Grief Counseling
Release Date: June 9, 2025

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Introduction

In the second episode of the "Office Ladies" podcast titled "Second Drink: Grief Counseling," co-hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey delve deep into the "The Office" Season 3, Episode 4, exploring its themes, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and fan reactions. This episode not only dissects the on-screen events but also uncovers intriguing real-life parallels and listener experiences that add a layer of mystery and fascination to the discussion.

Behind-the-Scenes Bird Incidents

Angela Kinsey kicks off the episode by sharing a startling real-life incident that coincided with their recording of "Grief Counseling." While preparing for the breakdown, Angela witnessed a squirrel attacking a bird outside her window, a scene eerily reminiscent of the episode's bird funeral. This uncanny event set the stage for what Angela humorously refers to as the "bird curse."

Shortly after, Jenna Fischer recounts her own experience during the podcast recording when her daughter unexpectedly joined the session, leading to a chaotic yet memorable moment. These incidents sparked a series of similar reports from listeners, suggesting a mysterious connection between the episode and unfortunate bird-related events.

The "Bird Curse" Phenomenon

The hosts reveal that numerous listeners have reported bird-related mishaps coinciding with listening to the "Grief Counseling" episode. From birds flying into windows to unexpected encounters with dead birds during activities like running or pool visits, the frequency and similarity of these incidents have led fans to believe the episode is cursed for birds.

Notable Listener Accounts:

• Darth Gandalf ([04:21]): Experienced a wounded bird flying into the window after listening.
• Hatchjolin ([04:30]): Noticed a dead bird while walking to the community pool post-listening.
• Amy Barbie ([04:46]): Her dogs killed a pheasant the same night she listened to the episode.
• Multiple others reported various bird-related incidents, reinforcing the eerie pattern.

Angela Kinsey ([06:38]): "Should we even be rerunning it?"

Insights from Writer Jen Salata

To address fan theories, Jenna and Angela consult Jen Salata, the writer of the "Grief Counseling" episode. Jen clarifies that the decapitation of Ed Truck, Michael Scott's former boss, was indeed part of the script and not an invention of Creed's storytelling. She explains the inspiration behind choosing a sudden and jarring death to impact Michael's character development.

Jen Salata ([10:06]): "This episode altogether is cursed for birds..."

Additionally, Jen shares insights into the writing process, including how internal character struggles were portrayed and the meticulous planning behind Michael's emotional journey.

Deep Dive into Specific Scenes

1. Cold Open and Production Challenges ([08:32] - [26:17]):

• Originally scripted differently, the cold open was reworked to incorporate elements from the cast's photo shoot, leading to the iconic "Michael's stacked boxes" bit.
• Notable Quote ([13:01] Angela Kinsey): "Jen and I traded emails and texts, and she was so much fun to talk to about this episode."

2. Michael's Grief and Grief Counseling Session ([36:04] - [56:35]):

• Michael struggles to convey his grief over Ed Truck's death, leading to an unorthodox grief counseling session.
• An improvised emotional outburst by Steve Carell revealed deeper layers of Michael's character.
• Notable Quote ([56:28] Angela Kinsey): "We could not keep it together."

3. Jim and Karen's Chip Quest ([29:14] - [76:48]):

• Jim takes Karen on a mission to find her favorite salt and vinegar chips, showcasing early tensions and chemistry between their characters.
• Fan theories question the authenticity of their relationship dynamics, with writers explaining that the relationship was still developing during season three.
• Notable Quote ([71:02] Jenna Fischer): "Have they found the chips?"

4. Dwight's Quirky Tales ([77:00] - [78:42]):

• Dwight shares bizarre stories about absorbing his twin and other peculiar family traditions, adding depth to his eccentric character.
• Notable Quote ([79:05] Angela Kinsey): "We're just saying..."

5. Bird Funeral Scene ([81:31] - [88:47]):

• The office gathers for a heartfelt bird funeral orchestrated by Pam, reflecting Michael's deep-seated fears of being unloved.
• Real-life incidents with birds during the podcast recording add an unnerving backdrop to the discussion.
• Notable Quote ([83:37] Angela Kinsey): "Amen. I'm finished."

Fan Engagement and Questions

Throughout the episode, Jenna and Angela address numerous fan questions, ranging from script details to character development nuances. They also share anecdotes about memorizing lines, on-set improvisations, and connections between character actions and real-life events.

Examples of Fan Questions:

• Chelsea ([84:05]): Inquired if Angela's "Amen" was improvised.
• Tristan ([80:27]): Asked about the development of Jim and Karen's relationship.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jenna Fischer ([08:12]): "Michael finds out that his former boss, Ed Truck, was decapitated in a self-induced drunk driving accident."
• Angela Kinsey ([36:48]): "Ed Truck really got decapitated. Creed actually got some facts that Michael didn't know."
• Jenna Fischer ([53:58]): "He got one of the doves, and what's happening?"
• Angela Kinsey ([56:28]): "We could not keep it together."
• Jenna Fischer ([81:17]): "Michael is very moved by Pam's beautiful coffin."

Conclusion

"Second Drink: Grief Counseling" offers a comprehensive exploration of one of "The Office's" more emotionally charged episodes. Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey expertly intertwine on-screen analysis with personal anecdotes and fan interactions, creating a rich tapestry that both celebrates and critically examines the show's storytelling. The mysterious "bird curse" adds an intriguing layer, blurring the lines between fiction and reality for listeners, and setting the stage for future episodes filled with even more engaging discussions and behind-the-scenes revelations.

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Stay tuned for upcoming episodes of Office Ladies as Jenna and Angela continue their ultimate re-watch of "The Office," bringing exclusive stories and insights from their time on the beloved show.

Transcript

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, everyone, Father's Day is this weekend. Did it sneak up on you? I have to admit, it snuck up on me a little bit. But I'm not worried too much because Macy's is having their Father's Day sale right now, which means I can spring for something extra special for my dad. And you know, I got him a Christmas gift from Macy's.com this year and he loved it. He loved it. I got him this Tommy Hilfiger pullover. And you know where I found it? On the Macy's gift guide. I love their gift guide. They have such great ideas. And you can score 20 to 50% off. Great gifts when you shop the Macy's Father's Day sale. They've got Polo, Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein, Levi's, Hugo Boss, so much more. Shop the Macy's Father's day sale for 20 to 50% off. Great Gifts for Daddy sale runs June 11 through June 15. Shop the Father's Day gift guide now at Macy's.com having people in your corner to help you makes all the difference. And with State Farm, you can feel good knowing that whether you need coverage for your car, your home, or even boats, motorcycles and RVs, you can choose the right amount of coverage for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

With State Farm, an agent can help you along the way. And if things get complicated and you have questions, you. You've got options too. Go [e-mail] or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. You know, this is going to age me a little bit here, but when I got my first car, my dad got me State Farm car insurance. And there was no online and there was no award winning app. And I have to think my dad would be so happy that that was more streamlined now because it really is so helpful, especially the app. It's right on your phone to talk.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hello and welcome to the second drink for grief counseling. Angela, you left me a message last week about this second drink share for today. And all you would say is that you could not believe what you found. You wouldn't tell me any other details. So I literally have no idea what you're about to share. But I can wait no longer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I am pretty excited about this. So you guys remember when we first broke down the episode. Not only did we discuss the fact that the Dunder Mifflin employees were having a bird funeral, but we both had crazy bird stories of our own. Yes, mine happened while I was re watching grief counseling, while I was preparing for the breakdown. Yours happened while you were actually recording this very podcast. I'm not going to spoil the stories. I want you to hear them in real time. They do involve some birds, a squirrel, and a cat. That's all I'm going to say.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, my incident is cemented in our recording of grief counseling because not to spoil anything, but my daughter pops into the podcast we still talk about.

[Jen Salata]

Was.

[Jenna Fischer]

Just really strange timing, like all of it. But how does that connect to what you have to share? I'm so curious.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, apparently there are many of our listeners who believe that this particular podcast breakdown of grief counseling is cursed.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

I could not believe how many people wrote in about it. And they all have the craziest bird stories associated with listening to to us break down grief counseling.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, wait. So when you were preparing grief counseling, you had a bird incident? When we were recording grief counseling, I had a bird incident. And now you're telling me that listeners had bird incidents while listening to grief counseling? Am I getting this right?

[Angela Kinsey]

You're getting this right. Okay, so apparently grief counseling altogether is cursed for birds. I have so many. Let's start with Darth Gandalf, who wrote in to say I. I wanted to reach out to tell you about what happened while listening to the grief counseling podcast episode. After Angela told us about how a squirrel killed a bird and then Jenna's cat had a bird in its mouth, a bird flew into my window.

[Ed Helms]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

It wounded its wing but ended up being okay. But I thought that was so crazy and I needed to share. I love you guys so much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Angela Kinsey]

I guess that does kind of.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess that kind of spoils what is in the episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

You'll still hear it. Next person was Hatchjolin, who wrote in to say, I just listened to this one recently, and as I was listening to it, my kids caught my dog killing a bird.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

The next person, Amy Barbie, wrote in to say, I listened to this episode yesterday, and in the same night, my dogs killed a pheasant. This is so creepy. Tarajade101 said, I absolutely love your podcast, but this episode is definitely cursed. My cat has never in all caps, killed a bird and brought it back to my house until I was listening to this episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, this is nuts.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I'm not even done. Kristin Powers wrote in and said, y' all, I finished this podcast episode this morning and decided to head to our community pool for a little while afterward. There was, in all caps, a freaking dead bird floating in the water. Then she put three emojis. Scary face, vomit face, crying face. I don't know what is up with you guys and the bird curse, but I hope it's over soon. Sideways Laffy Face, EP Netter wrote in and said, I'm behind but had to share. I just finished listening to grief counseling while going for a run, and at the very end, finishing up the last stretch of my run, I passed a dead cardinal on the sidewalk. What is up? Fitting right in with the theme.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my gosh, this is someone who listened Later.

[Angela Kinsey]

It doesn't matter. Apparently when you listen. Bethany0301 said, this episode is cursed. Just getting around to listening to this episode. On my walk this morning and finishing up, I passed a dead yellow bird on the sidewalk that was not there when I began my walk. Okay. Jamiegirl19 said, I ended up listening to the podcast episode a few days late, but the night I listened to it, my mom saw a hawk eating a dove in her backyard. Lastly, Megatron wrote in and said, oh my God, I never comment on anything like this, but I am so creeped out. I was listening to this episode on a run and there were two dead birds on my path. What is happening, lady?

[Jenna Fischer]

Should we even be rerunning it?

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel. I don't know. Isn't that so crazy?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my gosh. Okay, well, I guess here is our second drink of grief counseling.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, and hopefully it won't have the same bird curse effect this time around.

[Jenna Fischer]

Good luck, everyone. I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast. Just for your.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Ladies. Hi, everybody.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello. Welcome to Office Ladies. I'm so excited about this episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so good, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And we, we reached out to lots of folks, so we have some fun, fun stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is grief counseling. And guys, if we can get you depressed by the end of this podcast, we've done our job.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Michael.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's season three, episode four, written by Jen Salata and directed by Roger Nygaard.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jen Salata is one of my favorite people, Jenna. 100% she is just such a delight and was so much fun on set because she would always crack up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. She was one of our worst laughers, which made her the best laugher.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Hey, Jenna, you know what I'd love right now?

[Jenna Fischer]

I hope it's a summary.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a summary. Woot, woot.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, here it is. Michael finds out that his former boss, Ed Truck, was decapitated in a self induced drunk driving accident. Nobody seems upset though. Or certainly not upset enough. Which causes Michael to question if anyone would care about his death. Of course, he doesn't know that that's what he's worried about.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, he doesn't understand really, the depths of his sadness.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

He wants everyone to love him and be sad for him if he wasn't around.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Make a fuss about him. Well, first he leads everyone in some grief counseling, but then later, he forces everyone to participate in a bird funeral. Meanwhile, over in Stanford, Jim is put in charge of supervising Karen for the day, but decides to put their work on hold so they can search for her favorite bag of chips. Oh, we're gonna have so much to say about that.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is a really odd tangent and I don't mean to take us really weird, really fast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do it, Jenna.

[Angela Kinsey]

While I was rewatching this episode, I hear a commotion outside of my. That's what she shed.

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

And a squirrel is eating a little bird.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's worse than what I thought you were gonna say.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And so I was like, wait, what's he eating? What's he eating? I start filming it. I have video of me filming this squirrel, and in the background you can hear grief counseling and a bird funeral. Oh, my God, it was so crazy. But apparently squirrels are like. They're like an opportunist. You know, if there's a little bird's nest, they go for a baby bird. They do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Squirrels are terrible. Everyone thinks they're so cute cause of their fluffy tails, but they're awful. Look it up, everybody. Squirrels carry more disease than rats.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bleh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Look it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Sorry. But it just was kind of crazy that I was watching an episode that had a bird funeral and then I saw a squirrel attack a bird. It was crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, how do we get back from that? Hit me with some fast facts.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, fast fact number one. This episode was written by Jen Salata. We said that. And Angela reached out to Jen for this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Jen and I traded emails and texts, and she was so much fun to talk to about this episode. She was so excited to share information. And so she sent in a whole bunch of audio clips that we are going to play, and she is going to come back as a full awesome guest for maybe two episodes coming up. Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ooh, ooh.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're trying to figure out scheduling and whatnot, but she is in, and I cannot wait.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, let's play her. Hello, audio clip. Sam.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jen Salata]

Hey, guys, it's Jen. I miss you. I'm loving your podcast. I am learning so much. I had no idea of the drama behind the scenes of Booze Cruise where you were floating away at sea. Angela. With Phyllis and Rain and Brian. Amazing. Anyway, I'm loving it, and I'm gonna answer some grief counseling questions, so I'll send them in separate audio files.

[Jenna Fischer]

Aw. Isn't it nice to hear her voice, Ang?

[Angela Kinsey]

I love her voice. I find her voice really soothing. Now, listen, we were chatting back and forth, and I was listening to her voice a lot. And Jen, I think you have real good podcast voice.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Jen, are you doing voiceover work? Like, I'd buy anything you're selling with.

[Angela Kinsey]

Your voice or just call me and talk to me at the end of my day. Just leave me a message every day, just kind of telling me what you did, because I will listen to that as I like. Do the dishes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I agree. And Angela, in one of the clips that Jen sent, she explains a little bit about the process of writing this episode for her. Right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. It's so fascinating. Sam, can you play it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Enjoy Jen's voice, everyone.

[Jen Salata]

One thing about this episode that really stuck with me personally was it was a thrill because it was hard to tell stories on other shows about characters going through internal things. And in this case with Michael, it was even more than that, because this character was going through something internal and he was unaware of it, which made it really exciting to write because I love internal stories. But it also made it kind of difficult to explain at times. And I remember that I created a little chart where it said, here's what Michael is doing and saying in the scene. And then in bold under it, I wrote what was actually happening to Michael underneath it all. And, of course, Steve got it all intuitively, and he's a genius. It was such a treat to be able to write and tell that kind of story. And then, Jenna, to have you be aware of what it was that was going on with Michael, to have Pam sort of sense it and see it and fix it without it being spoken was just such a delight as a writer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that amazing?

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it. I love that she had, like, secret notes and charts in her script about the emotional journey of characters. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I find all of that so interesting. Just, like, the writer's process and what she wrote and how then it ended up playing, you know?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Angela, I just realized something. What she was tracking.

[Angela Kinsey]

She was tracking.

[Jenna Fischer]

She was tracking Michael's emotional journey. She tracked it.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, well, we are gonna hear more from Jen throughout the episode. So, Jenna, why don't you fast fact me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. I'm calling fast fact number two, the big fight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, you did a shoulder shimmy.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Are you intrigued?

[Angela Kinsey]

I am.

[Jenna Fischer]

In Mindy Kaling's book, Is Everyone Hanging Out Without Me, she writes a chapter about working on the Office and being a writer and also being a performer. And she said in her book that she and Greg Daniels got into such a huge fight during this episode that she stormed off the set, she kicked his car. Yes, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's so good. I forgot about that.

[Jenna Fischer]

But rather than have me read you the passage, Angela, wouldn't you rather hear it in Mindy's voice?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, guess what. There's an audiobook.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Hit play, Sam. I want to hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. Here is the clip from the audiobook of Is Everyone Hanging Out Without Me? And Other Concerns. It's published by Penguin Random House, LLC and read by Mindy Kaling.

[Ed Helms]

I tend to fight with Greg the most. My friend and fellow office writer Steve Healy believes it is because I am emotional and intuitive and Greg is more cerebral and logical. Or as I like to think of it, I am a sensitive poet and Greg is a mean robot. Our fighting is legendary. One time, late at night, our script coordinator, Sean, and our head writer, Danny, both brought in their dogs, and upon seeing each other, they got into a violent barking fight. Paul Lieberstein glanced over and joked, oh, I thought that was just Greg and Mindy. What do we fight about? I wish I could say there were big, smart philosophical issues about writing or comedy, but sometimes they're as small as. If we do that cold open where Kevin dumps a terrine of chili on himself, I will quit the show. We did that cold open, by the way, and it was a hit. And I'm still working at the show, I can get a little theatrical, which makes sense, because after all, I came up through the theatre, said in my snootiest masterpiece theater voice, I will tell you about the worst fight we ever had. In a very heated rewrite session for the season three episode, Grief Counseling, I was Arguing with Greg so much, he finally said in front of all 12 writers, if you're going to resist what I'm doing here, you can just go home, Mindy. Greg never sends anyone home or even hints at it. Greg is the kind of guy who is so agreeable. I frequently find him on our studio lot, embroiled in some long, boring conversation with random person while his lunch is getting cold in his to go container. And he's a boss. I would never talk to anyone if I was the boss. I would only talk to my attorney and my psychic. So anyway, my very nice boss had just hugely reprimanded me. Greg suggesting I go home unless I adjusted my attitude was the harshest he'd ever been to anyone in the three years I'd been on the show. There was silence. No one looked at me. People pretended to be absorbed in their phones. One writer didn't even have a phone. He just pretended to be absorbed in his hand. I was so embarrassed and angry that I got up, stomped out of the room, stole a 24 pack of bottled water from the production office, kicked the bumper of Greg's car, and left the studio.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is that amazing?

[Angela Kinsey]

It's amazing. I love the detail that she took a 24 pack of water. She was like, oh, I'm leaving.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am leaving, but I'm going to be hydrated. Well, listen, she goes on to say that after this, she went to a nail salon to get a pedicure. And the woman asked her, oh, do you have the day off? And Mindy was like, no, my boss threw me out of work. And the woman was like, oh, you got fired? And that's when Mindy was like, oh, wait, wait, what am I doing here? And she drove back to work and she told everyone she'd been in the bathroom. But Angela, she did keep that water.

[Angela Kinsey]

Good for you, Mindy. Her book is so fantastic. I own this book. It is hilarious. It is a great read, Mindy. Thank you so much for letting us use a little excerpt from it. And you have to come on the show. And she is, guys, because I texted her and she's coming on. Just wait.

[Jenna Fischer]

She's coming on. We won't say when, but it's happening. It's soon. You guys, if you're looking for entertainment right now, give it a try. The audiobook is available on the Penguin House audio website and soundcloud.com and thank you to Penguin Random House for letting us play.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love knowing that this was going on in the backdrop of us filming this episode. You're kicking a car. You're taking water. Jen Salata's on set cracking up. What is happening in the writers room?

[Jenna Fischer]

Should we move on to fast fact number three?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I don't know how you beat one and two, but go for it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I'm not sure I will, but I got a little scoop from Kentopedia about this episode. Ooh. All right. On the first shoot day of this episode, Kent reminded me that we had our big season three photo shoot for NBC where we did a big cast photoshoot, we did individual photos all in character. And since there weren't a lot of scenes happening in the break room, that's what we use for the photo shoot. I don't know if you remember it, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

They set up a desk, and then they would switch out the props on the desk and we would take single photos. And I have this very stern single photo of me holding a pencil and a pad of paper with a drawing on it that I have never felt properly represents the character of Pam. Because I think I look like. I think I look like a teacher who's ready to scold you in this photo, as opposed to a woman going through a life altering journey of love and expression.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a photo of me looking very stern in a sort of a severe ponytail, and I'm holding up a card with a cat on it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm. Well, then they took the desks away and they loaded the break room with paper boxes, and we all posed in front of them. Do you remember that one?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do. Because it was actually a very small space, and when they got us all in there, they then couldn't figure out how to get us all in the photo. Yeah, we were so jam packed. And so they had tiered these boxes like a little pyramid. And guess who had to crawl up to the tippity top and is at the very top. And really, I just look like a very tiny floating head in the way back of the photo. It's me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, then they moved us all over to the warehouse. Do you remember this? And they made it rain paper on us.

[Angela Kinsey]

They blew paper in a giant fan.

[Jenna Fischer]

This was a little insane because it took. I mean, I can't even remember how many times to blow the paper.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I have a great photo from this day. I don't know who took it actually, but it's in between. Whenever they blew the paper in the air, then they'd have to stop and reset it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, they'd have to pick up all the paper from the ground.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And then someone would have to bring it back and toss it back in the air. Right. So it was like a 20 minute turnaround between these setups and in between the setups, we all had to just stay there in the warehouse. We're like on the loading dock area, right? Yeah. And I'm in my skirt and my blouse, my severe ponytail, and I squat down ladylike in a skirt. You know how you can tuck your skirt up in your leg and squat down so you're not ruining the mystery for anyone. Sure, Jenna. You said sure like you weren't sure. I squat down in my Angela Martin outfit to talk to Paul Lieberstein. So there's this great photo of everyone sort of mealing about in between this paper setup, and I'm squatting down so completely out of character talking to Paul. I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, it was really crazy because we would have to shoot these whole episodes, but then also, like, when they would be setting up a new scene, we would run off to the warehouse and take pictures with the paper coming down on us.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. It was a bizarre day.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was super bizarre. And when Kent wrote me and reminded me of that, it all kind of came flooding back like, oh, yeah. You remember how weird that was? Yeah. Well, listen, should we take a break and then get into this episode?

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do it. Let's do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. We'll be right back. Oh, Office Ladies listeners, we did a little detective work and do we have the scoop for you. So what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.

[Angela Kinsey]

We put on our sleuthing hats and confirmed that's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance. So, yeah, sometimes it pays to be.

[Jenna Fischer]

A detective, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Angela Kinsey]

Learn more at discover.com credit card Guess what?

[Jenna Fischer]

We are so excited to be part of SHRM25. What is SHRM25? You're asking yourself? Don't worry, I'm going to tell you. It is the world's largest HR conference for HR professionals. It's an annual conference that HR pros look forward to attending to each year to learn about the latest HR trends, networking with peers and enjoying some entertaining conversations. And guess what? The Office ladies are going to be there this year.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, you know, I have been to a SHRM conference. I went in 2023 when it was in Florida. I had the best time.

[Jenna Fischer]

SHRM25 is happening in San Diego June 29th through July 2nd. Head to shrm.orgofficeladies to register.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, so we're back. We are in the bullpen. That's what we would call the big main room where, you know, Michael would always come out and talk to everyone. And he is doing a bit, guys. He has stacked.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, he's got a bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

He has stacked up some boxes of paper. Jenna, now that I remember that we were doing the photo shoot, I feel like those were the boxes that were in the break room that we took pictures on. I'm not even kidding.

[Jenna Fischer]

They very may well have been.

[Angela Kinsey]

So Michael's doing that classic, like, stairs or escalator bit, you know, where you stack up a bunch of stuff and then you slowly just kind of crouch down. And Dwight thinks it is the funniest thing he's ever seen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. Rain's reaction is like, if you showed that to a five year old.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Utter glee. And just. This is the best joke he's ever seen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ever seen. It is. And also he's laughing as if he's never heard of it. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is all new.

[Angela Kinsey]

He made it. He made it to be an adult man and has never seen the fake stairs bit. But, you know, I think, you know, in this episode, Pam is a little bit of the gym. Pam has taken on the jokester role, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So Ryan and Kevin joined in. They ask him to get little things like a pen, you know. But then Pam showing a little bit of Pam sass is like, how about a cup of coffee? How about you give me a cup of coffee? And Michael's like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I have a lot to say about this cold open, Ange.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I want to hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

First of all, this was not the original cold open in the script.

[Angela Kinsey]

Somebody has the original script.

[Jenna Fischer]

I've got a shooting draft of grief counseling.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's hear it.

[Jenna Fischer]

The original cold open was in Stamford, and it involved. Yeah. And it involved a co worker of Jim wanting him to look at photos of her baby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh, I saw this in a deleted scene. And she gets really put out with him because she shows him a picture of her husband and the baby in the bathtub. And Jim is like, finds it off putting. He's like, oh, God, they're in the bathtub. And she's like, oh, you know what? Come back to me when you have kids, okay? Like, she gets really mad at him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this was the original cold open. This cold open was added later, and we shot it at the end of the week because it was an ad.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we had all those boxes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had all Those boxes from our photo shoot. Oh, my gosh. I wonder if they were inspired. They were like, wait, I know what we can do with these.

[Angela Kinsey]

We have all these boxes just stacked in the middle of the soundstage.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lot of people wrote in and said, oh, my gosh. How many takes did you guys do of this cold open? Because if you notice, Steve looks like he's, like, sweating when he brings Pam her coffee. He's sweating. He is so tired. Kent told me we did 10 takes 10 times. And every time we did a take, Steve went up and down the stairs three times.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he did that 30 times.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was getting, like, a major. Like, what are those? Like, your quads? Says the person who never works out. What are those called?

[Jenna Fischer]

Your quads? He was getting like, there's probably some quad and glute.

[Angela Kinsey]

Quad and glute. And then he had to crawl around. Any wonder. Poor guy.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Kent also told me that we actually did six different camera setups for this scene because they had to move the camera in different places to do the shot. When he's crawling, when he goes inside the kitchen for his talking head, which is technically part of it. So. Yeah, but he. He walked up and down the stairs 30 times.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh, Steve, your butt. You must have been so sore. Well, I have two. Two little things in this opening scene. First of all, at 51 seconds, I think Angela kind of smiles.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

When Pam says, get a cup of coffee, Angela kind of has a smile. Like, there is a brief moment where I think she's on your side. I just wanted that to be documented.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then I have a great fan catch at 1 minute, 27 seconds. Ready for this?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Kelly and Chloe Harrigan and Shannon Rajalski. They wrote in, and they noticed that when Michael returns from the kitchen, when he's crawling on the ground, that. That is Jim's coffee mug. That's the coffee mug that Jim always uses.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Isn't that a great catch? And I was like, I wonder if that was a little nod to Jim so that Jim's presence got to be in Scranton for a little moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that. Great catch, guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Great catch.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so then we move into Michael's office, and he's on the phone with Jan, who informs him that they have lost Ed Truck.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then Michael's like, well, I have his number somewhere. I can find it for you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And she's like, no, Michael, Ed Truck has died. He goes out into the room, he breaks the news to everybody. Kelly rushes up, gives him a hug.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, we have a special appearance by Kelly's extensions and her bangs. They make a special appearance.

[Jenna Fischer]

They are hugging Michael, giving him some comfort. And then Michael approaches Pam for a little awkward hug.

[Angela Kinsey]

So awkward. And lady, I have a track moment. I'm tracking it. I'm tracking it.

[Jenna Fischer]

What are you tracking?

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, I love to track the plants at front reception.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are there more new plants?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, whatever happens to them, they make an appearance, and then we never see them again. At 3 minutes, 29 seconds, I am pretty sure that's a succulent. We have a succulent.

[Jenna Fischer]

Succulent alert.

[Angela Kinsey]

Succulent alert at front reception. We'll probably never see it again. But when Michael hugs Pam awkwardly, you get a nice shot of that succulent.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm not kidding. I really need to start a spreadsheet.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. A really complex spreadsheet.

[Jenna Fischer]

All the things we're tracking. Well, next we move over to the Stanford office, and a staff meeting becomes very awkward when Josh is super sexist and condescending to Karen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, he. He was. He sort of just totally dismissed her. I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, seriously. And then he puts Jim in charge of her for the day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, gross.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is this just like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is. This is like a physical representation of mansplaining? I feel like.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you know what? You check in on that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Why don't you oversee that, Jim?

[Angela Kinsey]

Why don't you check in on that?

[Jenna Fischer]

And she's like, yeah, thanks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, thanks.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we had a fan catch from Brandon. He says, at 3 minutes and 42 seconds, when Karen is flipping through her stack of papers, I think I see a page from the script in her note.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's such a good catch. You do? I froze it. Oh, yeah, she's got a little script page. We used to do that, Remember, Ang? We used to hide script pages in our notebooks. I used to keep them in a drawer, like, in between takes. I would open my drawer and I would be like, okay, wait, did I get it? Did I get it to get it? And then I shut my drawer again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. We had scripts hidden everywhere on that set that we could just peek at between scenes to make sure we were, like, on our lines or if we wanted to prep right before. And, I mean, obviously we had worked on them and we knew our lines, but when you're doing a bunch of takes, sometimes you're like, oh, wait, crap, what was that? And you just want to do a.

[Jenna Fischer]

Quick peek, but also, you know, they would have their writer's draft, and then we would read it at a table read, and then they would make a bunch of changes, and they would start on Monday with what was called the shooting draft. And that's what I have. I have a bunch of shooting drafts left over. But every single morning, we would arrive to work, and there would be a stack of new pages. They were rewritten scenes just for that day.

[Angela Kinsey]

They would hand you the pages sometimes that morning and be like, okay, here we go, guys. These are your changes for the day.

[Jenna Fischer]

You better believe we were hiding pages in our desks and notebooks, but, yes, Brandon, you saw one.

[Angela Kinsey]

That. That just tickled me, because that is so true. That's a good catch. Okay, so now at 4 minutes, 2 seconds, Karen is really disappointed, you guys, because the chips that she likes, they're not in the vending machine. But I think Jim felt bad at the way Josh treated her, and he now wants to make amends, right? He wants to try to help her find these potato chips. And this whole scene about Karen and her potato chips just got me thinking about Rasheeda's breakfast order.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do you remember her breakfast order?

[Jenna Fischer]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, we often were in hair and makeup together at the same time, and I texted her because I was like, rasheeda, I totally just had this memory of your breakfast order. Here was the great thing about our caterer, Sergio. First of all, he was amazing. But if your order became kind of popular, if other people liked it, you would get your name on the menu.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

So you would walk up to the truck to order breakfast in the morning, the food truck, and you could order a Rasheeda, Angela size. Because I always wanted everything half portion. Cause it was just big. The portions were big. And I'm a little person, so I'd always say, can I have half of that? So they started calling it Angela. Sighs so here's what the Rasheeda was. And Sergio. I ran into Sergio a while back because I was working on a Netflix show, and he was the caterer for it for Mindy's show. Never have I ever. Really? He was the caterer? Yeah. Mindy hired him, which was fantastic. We had a little mini office reunion. And here's the Rasheeda, which you can still order from Sergio. Ready?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

A corn tortilla, poached egg, black beans, avocado, turkey bacon, cholula on the side. And I was texting with Rashida about it, and she was like, I don't even know how I functioned after eating that. Like, why should I have just gone and taken a nap. But that's called the Rashida.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I can get that Angela size if I'm not that hungry.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I'd like the Rashida Angela size, please.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. That brought back so many memories. Molly Neck wrote in to say, guys, you can see her favorite chips in the vending machine slot B1.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so there's a row of potato chips in the vending machine, but apparently those aren't the ones that Karen wants.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, Karen wants salt and vinegar potato chips. I did a mini deep dive on hers potato chips, and Philadelphia magazine did a ranking of all the hers potato chips, and salt and vinegar was their number one chip. So it might make sense that it was hard to find because it's their. It's the number one chip. Close behind was cheddar horseradish. Pam's favorite. Sour cream and onion was number four.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our favorite is their barbecue chips. I love their hers barbecue chips.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know where that is in.

[Angela Kinsey]

The ranking on the ranking. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sorry I didn't look that one up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I do have a script catch for you as well. We're not done talking about this yet. In the shooting draft of the script, her favorite chips were going to be salsa verde Doritos. Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

So here we go. We're going back to Scranton, and Creed is in Michael's office with Dwight and Michael, and he tells them that Ed was decapitated. And Michael's like, what? And he goes, yeah, he was flying down the road. He'd been drinking, and I guess he ran into a semi truck. Right. And was decapitated.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela, we got a lot of mail about this scene with Creed. Okay. There is a very, very big debate online over whether or not Creed, the character, is making it up that Ed was decapitated or if it's the truth.

[Angela Kinsey]

The truth within the show. And, you know, Creed told some crazy stories, both on camera and off camera. So I can see where this sort of, like, controversy, if you will, around Creed's retelling of this. Is it true? Is it not?

[Jenna Fischer]

Fiona, Danielle, Kelly, Danny, Mackenzie, Adam, and Valerie, they all said, how did Creed know the details of Ed Truck's death if Michael was the first to know from corporate. So their theory is that Creed's making it up because there's no possible way for him to know more details than Michael. And then Maria pointed out that Creed lies later in another episode and says that Dwight was decapitated. That's in the episode the Return. So she's like, maybe Creed is just obsessed with decapitation because he's a weird character. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here's the thing. I love that you guys were all writing back and forth about this. I think that because Creed knew Ed, he actually knew Ed. Maybe there was someone he called. But we decided, hey, let's go to the source. Let's ask Jen Salata. Was this story made up by Creed the character, or was it truth in the sort of scope of the show, did this really happen? So here's what Jen had to say.

[Jen Salata]

Did Ed Truck really get decapitated? Sadly for Ed Truck, he did really get decapitated. It sounds like a Creed story, but it actually was a true story. In the world of our show, there's no Ed Truck, and he didn't really lose his head. However, in the world of the office, he did get decapitated for real.

[Angela Kinsey]

We.

[Jen Salata]

I think it was Greg that came up with the decapitation. I can't quite remember, and Greg can't remember, but I remember spending a lot of time talking about the way Michael's former boss would die and how it had to be something very sudden and jarring so that it could be a shock to Michael Scott's system that he could just freak out one day because he's just living his life and going into the office, and then all of a sudden, he could be dead. So that. I think that is where the decapitation came from. Unfortunately, I also can't remember who came up with his kappas dictated from his head. I feel like it wasn't me because I would have been really proud of it if it was me, and I'd remember that. But, yeah, the decapitation was real for Ed Truck. Sorry, Ed Truck.

[Jenna Fischer]

There you have it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ed Truck really got decapitated. Creed actually got some facts that Michael didn't know. This is the slippery slope with Creed, and let me tell you, this is true in real life. And as his character, he'll say something, and you're like, that's not true. And then it's 100% true. And then he'll say something else, and it's total bs so, yes, welcome to the world of Creed.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is true. Well, after this, Michael decides to break the news to the whole office. I love the little couplet. I just loved it. I watched it over and over of Michael being like, I don't know how to tell you this. And then Dwight is like, ed Truck was decapitated.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he goes, what? What are you doing?

[Jenna Fischer]

He's like, you said you didn't know how to say it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You said you didn't know how to say it. Dwight is so literal.

[Jenna Fischer]

So literal. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God. It made me laugh so hard, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, lady, I want to talk about something in this scene, because at 5 minutes, 38 seconds, I wrote down Angela's face.

[Angela Kinsey]

What'd they do?

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like in this moment, you have what I would consider to be a quintessential Angela reaction. You made so many sour faces on our show, and they are so funny to me because I never see you make these faces in real life. They are so not your personality, but they have been turned into memes. You are known for this just disapproving look, but it's like. It's just funny to me because in real life, you are nothing like this.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, people write in and say, oh, you have resting bitch face. You've heard that expression, right? Rbf. But now they're just calling it resting Angela Martin face. It's like, resting Angela face. But this is cracking me up right now, like, in a whole different way, because I am doing this show called Be Our Chef. You know, I'm hosting this family cooking competition.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, you know, I know this. We watch it. We watch it religiously. My kids love this show, you guys. It's a cooking show. It's on Disney plus. You have to watch it. It's families cooking and competing, and Angela's the host, and it is just the sweetest, most uplifting, most. Just pure fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that is so sweet. Here's the thing my family's doing. So you're saying that you froze on my face making the sour face?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

My family keeps doing, like, freezing the screen when I'm making the weirdest faces. I guess in Be Our Chef, I have learned that I talk really animated, and I move my hands around, and I. It's like, I'm Jim Carrey. My kids think I look crazy most of the time on Br Chef, and their favorite thing now is to screen, grab it and text me.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm loving it. And Angela, I have to say this. Last Friday, when it came on, I was like, guys, I. Guys, we're gonna watch Be Our Chef. And Angela's aunt. And my daughter goes, you really love Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw.

[Jenna Fischer]

She is your best friend. And I said, she is my best friend.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw, that is so sweet.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. That is so sweet.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so, yes, I make weird faces, everybody. I make weird faces. While we're talking about my weird faces, Jenna, in this scene where Dwight asks Angela to Put his head on ice. Right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, this is around 5 minutes, 44 seconds. Right at the top of the scene. I'm getting something out of the vending machine. Did you notice my jacket?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, lady, I have the same time code. Five minutes, 44 seconds. I wrote. Angela. Wardrobe, what's up? I know. What is up with your very odd short sleeved jacket? What is this item?

[Angela Kinsey]

It is a short. It's a. It's a.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can it be purchased or was this made for you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Now, I think someone purchased it or found it in a warehouse like nb. But it is a short sleeve, pinstriped, kind of like a dress jacket. And I jokingly called it to wardrobe, my Janet Jackson jacket. Because do you remember? I loved Janet Jackson. And do you remember Rhythm Nation, her album Rhythm Nation? Okay, watch the music video of the song. All right. She is wearing this pinstriped jacket. Of course, mine was short sleeve. Hers was, like, regular. But we jokingly called this to the wardrobe department. My Janet Jackson jacket. I don't know. It was so weird. It was weird. It was. It was like short sleeve.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sorry to whoever designed it, but it's like your short sleeve blouse is peeking out underneath your short sleeve jacket. It's an odd design.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a total mess. It's a total mess. But it makes. It makes me laugh to look back on it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It a little bit reminds me of something that you might see on Project Runway when they had to, like, make a jacket out of another jacket, but they had to, like, reimagine the jacket.

[Angela Kinsey]

Reimagine the jacket. And they just made it a short sleeve jacket. And they were voted off.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, pretty much. All right, guys, so then we have a pretty adorable Dwight talking head where he says that he wants to be frozen when he dies. Even if they have to do it in pieces. Even if he is decapitated, he wants to be frozen because he will wake up stronger than ever, and he will have been able to use that time to figure out how he died and how he could have better defended himself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah. He's thought it through. He's thought it through.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love talking heads.

[Angela Kinsey]

Angela does not want to participate in this. She doesn't want to.

[Jenna Fischer]

No. So now Michael is on the phone with Jan, and he really doesn't understand why they have a day honoring Martin Luther King when he didn't even work at Dunder Mifflin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, but Ed Truck. Ed Truck sat at his same desk and has died. And Jan's like, okay, listen, do you want to just give everyone the day off. And he's like, you don't get these people. They wouldn't want that.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, they don't want to go home. What they want is a robot statue of Ed Truck.

[Angela Kinsey]

The eyes light up. Yeah, that's what they want.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we had a fan question here from Sierra. When Michael is on the phone with Jan and has an article with a picture of himself and Ed on the desk in front of him, he slowly drags the corner of an envelope down to cover Ed's head, you know, because he'd been decapitated. Was that scripted? Yes, that action was scripted. It was in the script. And then of course, you see, they made the camera, made sure to capture it.

[Angela Kinsey]

So smart, so smart. So thought out. Well, I really thought Dwight's drawing of the robot with the six foot extension cord to the wall so it couldn't attack him. I thought that was fantastic. And I wanted to know who drew it. But we probably don't know, do we?

[Jenna Fischer]

We don't know. We had fan questions about that too, Ange and I tried to find out, but I couldn't get the answer for you. I'm sorry. That's all right. I don't think it was rain.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shay drew it in the back just quickly on the notepad.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sure. But I feel. I feel like I can say with 99% certainty it was not rain.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like rain might have doodled on it during the scene, but the original drawing was not rain.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, now we have to go back over to Stanford. I actually texted Ed Helms. I said, ed, you just made me do the snort laugh so hard. Because here we are, Jim and Karen are still trying to find these chips. They're having a hard time, but Jim's like, we're not going to quit. And she's like, I'm not a quitter. And then Andy's like, what? What's the game? What are we playing? I'm in. And then they tell him we can't find the chips. And he's like, did you check the vending machine? They're like, oh, no. Actually, we checked the fax machine. And you see how pissed off Andy gets at them because he knows. He knows they're being smartasses. And he just looks at them so seriously and goes, did you check your butt?

[Jenna Fischer]

It made me laugh out loud.

[Angela Kinsey]

It made me laugh so hard. I, like watched it twice back to back because I was like, oh, my God. And then I texted Ed. I said, ed, you are so funny in this scene, I texted him the line and he was like. We were like trading texts about it, just cracking up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that line is in the script. I went and looked. I had to know. But I don't know if you noticed, in this scene, 7 minutes, 35 seconds, the smile post it is gone from Jim's computer.

[Angela Kinsey]

You've been tracking that post IT lady?

[Jenna Fischer]

I've been tracking it all right. And I don't know if you notice, I mean, he's acting more like Jim now, right? Like, he's got a little thing. He's dazzling a lady with his charm. He took.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's getting more comfortable. Yeah, he's more comfortable. And he has an adventure within work. Right. That's kind of like this is a boring job to Jim. So he always has to find a distraction to get him through the day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jim's the guy who makes work more fun, right. With his little things like this that he does. So he's back to his old ways.

[Angela Kinsey]

Back at the Scranton branch, Michael is just obsessed now. He just can't stop thinking about Ed Truck. And he's really starting to internalize it about himself. Right? Like, what if I were gone? No one cares here. No one cares. And he decides that they probably need some grief counseling. They're in denial.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, yeah. He wants us to know the stages of grief, and he feels like it's his job to take us through them. He doesn't know if he can get us all the way to acceptance, but if he can get us depressed, he will have done his job.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's such a great line.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's such a good line.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a really great little tidbit right here.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so in the deleted scenes, Toby is actually a trained grief counselor.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And so, you know, Dwight's like, Toby should probably lead us through this. He's a trained grief counselor. And Toby starts to walk them through the steps. They're in the conference room and Michael's like, oh, you're ruining everything. It's going to take me forever to undo what you've done. And of course, Toby was being perfectly normal and appropriate, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Michael's like, you're ruining it. And this whole scene is in the conference room, taking place around the conference table. Everyone's sitting there and Michael's like, that's it. I'm going to have to fix everything you've ruined. Toby, Ryan, Dwight, take the conference table out. We're going to take a five minute break while they reset. And we're coming back in here. And I'm going to lead you in grief counseling. And I about fell out of my chair because in my knowledge, that is the first time we have ever referenced the dang conference table.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. And now we know who's always moving it. It's Dwight and Ryan.

[Angela Kinsey]

Dwight and Ryan. Where they put it, I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

But we don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was the first time I ever heard Michael say, okay, let's get the conference table out of here.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Acknowledging that the conference table can be removed and replaced on a whim. How do they get it out of the doorway?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. They probably have to take it apart. But Michael's like, we're gonna take five to ten minute break, and when we get back in here, we're gonna get down to it. And then the next scene is them with the little ball that they're about to toss around. But that's a deleted scene. That sets it up.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that. I love that. Well, listen, why don't we take a break, and then when we come back, we will meet Michael in the conference room for some. Some of his grief counseling.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And maybe.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sound good?

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe Roy will stop by. Who knows?

[Jenna Fischer]

He might, because Pam might need a little break as well. All right, we'll be right back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, let's say you realized your business needed to hire someone, but, like, yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, I know this answer. I know you know it's Indeed.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

If you are that person that we're talking about and you need to hire someone fast, you definitely need Indeed. I wonder what Dunder Mifflin would have been like if they'd used Indeed. Would Kevin have a job?

[Angela Kinsey]

Probably not. Neither would Meredith.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Officeladies, just go to Indeed.com officeladies right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Indeed.com officeladies Terms and conditions apply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Jenna Fischer]

Lady, you know that I love horror movies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

And there's a very popular part of the horror movie where, like, the person is home alone and they're just, like, locking up their house. They're turning off the lights, they're heading to bed, and, you know, something's gonna go down.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you know what would throw a huge monkey wrench into this horror movie that I'm describing?

[Angela Kinsey]

If the character in the movie is smart, they would have gotten simply safe like I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. The movie would be over. That's right. Nothing would happen to them.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

That's simplisafe.com officeladies there's no safe like SimpliSafe. This podcast is brought to you by.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Head to squarespace.com officeladies for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com officeladies to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we're back. Here we are. Angela, what did you do during the break?

[Angela Kinsey]

I went and got an iced tea. Jenna and I said hi to my husband and I walked up, I guess behind him kind of quietly and I scared the crap out of him. Oh boy. That's what I did on my break. I was like, hey. He was like, ah. Why does it get me so tickled? I, I like, I don't know why spooking him makes me laugh so hard.

[Jenna Fischer]

I got a cup of coffee and then I put the sheets from the washer into the dryer, and I'm all excited that I'm podcasting and doing the laundry at the same time, because, you know, I love a good multitasking.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I have laundry going, lady. I start it in the morning. Oh, it's going okay. It's also, I find that when I do laundry, I can't podcast in my closet because you can hear the dryer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

On the days I do laundry, I podcast in my shed.

[Jenna Fischer]

There you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go. Making it work. Podcasting from home.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm in my pajamas. I never said that at the beginning.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I noticed.

[Jenna Fischer]

I didn't.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't say anything, but I noticed.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did my hair, though. I don't know what that says about me. When my hair is done, I feel good even if I'm still in my pajamas.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, guys, we are back in the conference room, and Michael is going to lead us in some grief exercises. It involves taking a ball, and when you have the ball, you can talk about a moment of grief in your life. Michael goes first. Yeah, of course Michael goes first. And he talks about Ed Truck. Angela. When he says his feelings about Ed Truck, it's so good. He goes on and on. I asked Sam to pull a clip so that we could all listen to it together.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, God. I'm so happy about this because I wrote in my journal that in this scene, this particular, like, moment, we could not get through.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, lady, it's not in the script. This was, I think, an improvisation by Steve.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God. Okay, well, there's one line. I'm not gonna say it yet. Let's listen to it. There's one line that I wrote in my journal. We all disintegrated, so.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God. Wait, hold on. What is it, baby? Sunny got a bird. Oh, okay. Hold on. Okay, I'll be right back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

He got one of the doves, and what's happening?

[Angela Kinsey]

Got a bird. Sunny is their cat. So here's the thing. This. This podcast started with me telling about a squirrel that ate a bird, and now their cat just got a bird. I'm telling you, this is the bird funeral podcast.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, okay. I'm so sorry. I'm bad.

[Angela Kinsey]

What happened?

[Jenna Fischer]

What happened, you guys? We got a grocery delivery, and Sunny shot out the door and I guess caught a bird. Right? This is so insane that we're doing this episode right now. And, Angela, you had a squirrel eating your birds when you were prepping.

[Angela Kinsey]

I had a squirrel eating a Bird. Now, your cat has, like, attacked a bird.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, but listen, it's good news. I have good news. We caught Sunny. We wrestled him to the ground, we got the bird out of his mouth, and it's a pretty big bird. And he was unharmed. The bird was unharmed.

[Angela Kinsey]

You saved the bird.

[Jenna Fischer]

The bird's okay. Michael would be so happy.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's gonna happen next week for the initiation?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't want to be initiated. Jenna. No, I don't want it. Please don't bring that over here.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't want any of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, well, that was crazy and so sorry. I can't. I can't believe this is all happening in grief counseling, but let's. Okay, where were we?

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, let's play this clip of Michael talking about his grief of Ed Truck.

[Angela Kinsey]

I lost Ed Truck. And it feels like somebody took my heart and dropped it into a bucket of boiling tears. And at the same time, somebody else is hitting my soul in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer. And then a third guy walks in and starts punching me in the grief bone. And I am crying, and nobody can hear me because I am terribly, terribly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Terribly alone. Angela, can I guess the line that we couldn't get through?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is it frozen sledgehammer?

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, I put. I put. Every one of us broke when he said that his soul was getting hit in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Jen Salata]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what I wrote in my journal. I said we could not keep it together.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. I said that's not in the script. I don't know if he was handed that rewrite on the day, but it feels like. That's a Steve. That's a Steve improv. That feels like Steve to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Man. Man, that got us good, though.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, man, that is so good. Well, then Roy walks in. There's a problem with Pam's car. Can she come down to the parking lot and take a look at it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. So there is an extended scene of this in the deleted scenes. So if you thought it was awkward enough, their conversation by the car, it's extended and even more awkward. Jenna, here's my question for you. How did Roy know that she was stuck in the conference room? How. How did he know there was grief counseling? How?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, okay. I think you're implying that she called Roy and told him about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm just saying, how did he know? How did he know?

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I have a take on it. I think Michael called Darryl down in the warehouse and Said bring everyone up for some grief counseling. And Daryl was like, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

No. Well, that. That would explain it. Yes, that would explain it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We had a fan question from Alexa Porter. Was there ever talk of putting Pam and Roy back together, or was it all just a setup to mess with our feelings? Well, there was talk in the writers room that maybe Roy could win Pam back. Remember, David Denman was made a series regular for season three.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he's going to be making a lot of appearances this season. I can tell you guys. Nothing was decided at this point about what would happen with Jim and Pam. What would happen with Pam and Roy? They were feeling it out week to week. I totally remember that. I also remember it was constantly said that maybe, maybe in the series of the Office, Jim and Pam would not end up together in the end, but would instead lead one another to their actual true loves. It had not been decided right now that Jim and Pam were one another's true loves.

[Angela Kinsey]

When you just said that, I got angry. Oh, no. I was like, no. Jim and Pam end up together? No. Ugh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think maybe that's why the writing of their characters felt so authentic, because the writers were figuring out their relationship at the same time that Jim and Pam were.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So we're, as an audience, we feel that, like, what will happen? We don't know. These are two people on journeys trying to find themselves, and hopefully that leads them back to each other.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm. Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, so while Pam and Roy are out in the parking lot, I'm sure Pam was really hoping that she's gonna come back to the, like, conference room and the grief counseling's almost over. But, no, they waited for her because they're family too.

[Jenna Fischer]

They waited for her.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. There's a great scene on the dvd. It's a deleted scene. And Michael is trying to get everyone to loosen up. Right. For the grief counseling. He's like, hey, guys, take your jackets off, Loosen your ties, Take off your shoes, ladies. Let your hair down. And Angela goes, I don't think Kevin should take off his shoes. Oh. And Kevin gets really annoyed. And then he has a talking head that he says, all right, listen, I have hyperhidrosis. Okay? So we find out that he has this disease that makes your feet sweat really, really badly. So I guess he's been taking his shoes off over in accounting. I love this little tidbit, and I'm sad it didn't make it in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this explains why when Pam walks into the room, Kevin's feet are up on her chair and his shoes Are off.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. People wrote in and asked about that. It's because in the delet, Michael's getting everyone to loosen up and we find out that Kevin has. How do you say it? Hyperhidrosis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela, I love that. That's a good catch. That's a good catch. Good tip. Tidbit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Tidbit. It's a kenzie tidbit.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. So when Pam does finally get back, they begin again. And Dwight is the first one to share. Oh, this is one of my favorite things. And Dwight shares that he was supposed to have a twin, but he absorbed the twin in utero. All right, we had a fan question from Eira Tajali. Did Rainn Wilson make the whole absorbing twin thing up or was it scripted? Well, first of all, I will tell you it is not in the script. I don't know if rain made it up, but in the script, Dwight was supposed to say this. He was supposed to say, in The Blizzard of 9712 Shrewts died in the basement of our house. They drank beer cider that had already turned president. McKinley declared it a national emergency. Now my favorite thing about that is that clearly it's not 1997. It's like 1897.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, I guess.

[Jenna Fischer]

But that was originally Dwight's grief share.

[Angela Kinsey]

So here's the thing. I reached out to Jen Salata about this and this is maybe one of my favorite text threads of all time. This is what tickled me so much, is that Jen Salata, Jenna, she's one of our people. She's a deep diver. The minute I asked her, she went on a deep dive for the whole afternoon. Ready? So I say, okay, Jen, Dwight's speech about absorbing his twin is not in the script. Was that an improv? Did you tell him on the day? She goes, oh my God, I don't remember. Oh my God, I love that speech. And sadly, it wasn't mine. I'm going to start texting people. Please hold.

[Jen Salata]

Oh, I love this so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

This happened throughout the day. She said, I texted Rain. Rain actually thinks it was an alt pitched from Paul. Jen said, here's a side note. I had a friend that reabsorbed his twin, but I definitely didn't come up with the strength of a baby. She said, I'm going to check with Paul where that part came from. Please hold. She texts Paul. Paul says he thinks it was Justin Spitzer. Hold one second. Now texting Justin.

[Jenna Fischer]

Justin was another one of our writers.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is what Justin texted Jen back. I still remember that because it was early season Three. And I was so nervous about proving myself, I guess. Yes, I came up with it, but the thing that really sold it to me was the last line about him having the strength of a grown man plus a baby. And that was something that Paul Lieberstein added after. So I think he deserves a fair amount of credit as well.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm giving that a slow clap. A big clap.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was a two hander that Paul and Justin pitched.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that we got to the bottom of that mystery because it is one of my all time favorite Dwight Isms. Also, guys, Justin Spitzer is the creator of the show Superstore.

[Angela Kinsey]

Justin is so talented. He's so talented.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Love him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Anyway, I think the only place to go from here is back to our grief circle and we need to hear from some others.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so we're back into the grief counseling scene and Stanley has just refused. He is not going to participate. No chunks. That ball back at Michael.

[Jenna Fischer]

I heard that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you heard that. But Pam agrees to participate and she's going to share a story about her family. But it's clearly just the synopsis for the movie Million Dollar Baby.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, again, Pam is now the gem. She's the jokester.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And then Ryan joins in and he shares a story that is very clearly the Lion King.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, he says the word Mufasa. I mean, come on. But then Kevin catches on and he's tickled. He wants to participate, he wants to play the game, but he goes too broad, too on the nose. And he basically breaks down Weekend at Bernie's. And Michael's like, what? Hold up. That's a movie. And he gets really ticked off.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so there was a lot of curiosity about these movie plots. In the conference room. We got a fan question from Tristan, who wants to know when everyone is in the conference room for Michael's counseling session. Did the cast improvise the movie plots that were mentioned or were they scripted?

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna? To my knowledge, they were all scripted. That's how I remember it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. I looked these up in the shooting draft. And Pam's Million Dollar Baby story and Kevin's Weekend at Bernie story are both in the script. However, Ryan's fake movie story is different. Ah, yes. In the script, he talks about Thelma and Louise. This is what he says. He says, my mom's sister Thelma died last year. She was with her friend named Lou C. A cop was trying to pull them over, and I guess the brakes must have not been working because they ended up driving over a cliff and it was a total shock to everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, well, we wanted to get to the bottom of this, so we reached out to the source, the writer of this episode, Jen Salata. And this is what she had to say.

[Jen Salata]

For the movies and the grief counseling session. I was really excited. It was really fun to think about. I went off on script and needed to find a way that everybody would sit there with Michael Scott and not share their own personal stories of huge loss because it just didn't seem like they would do that. So I thought they should share movies plot lines as if they were their own lives. And I came up with Million Dollar Baby for Eugena, for Pam, and then also for Kevin, Weekend at Bernie's. And for Ryan, I had a different one. I think BJ came up with the Lion King. I don't quite remember, but I think it was bj. And I love that one. The one I had. I actually found my first draft of the script. I had Ryan. I'll read you the line. It's not as good as the Lion King one, but I have Ryan say, this is almost too horrible to talk about, but I had a cousin who was a big city lawyer and he was visiting an Amish town not far from here, and he was smothered to death in their grain silo. And then I had Michael say, ooh, that must have made you really sad. Did it? And Ryan says, yes. So I think that was Witness. So I had Ryan's from Witness. I wish I could remember some of the other ones because I feel like we had other ones that we pitched on, but those were the ones from my first draft. And then of course, the Lion King circle of life was fantastic. And Ryan saying, it'll take about an hour and a half to tell. It was like such a great line.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is amazing. By the way, my college roommate and I used to watch Witness and we would say to each other all the time, be careful out among them. English thank you. That is my moving quote from Witness. But isn't that wild, Jenna, that Ryan's. Ryan's movie went through three versions. It was Witness and then it was, I guess Thelma and Louise according to your script. But the Lion King is what made it in the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, clearly they had a lot of alts for these movie plots. But all of them were scripted, guys. All of them written by our awesome writers. We did not improvise that scene stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

Love that. Love that little tidbit. Jensalata.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, guys, Michael gets pretty upset that people are not taking this seriously, you know, he says the guy who used to do his job and sit at his desk has died and no one cares.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Toby tries to talk him down and tries to explain that this is just life and that this morning he saw a bird fly into the window downstairs and die. Michael freaks out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. Toby, Toby, what are you thinking? He totally attaches to that. Now Michael's grief for Ed is somehow wrapped into this bird. It's going to be a whole thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. He runs downstairs, he freaks out. He wants to see if the bird is alive. I had a fan catch here from Kendra at 14 minutes, 33 seconds when Michael runs through the front door to get the bird. He runs past the security desk, and the security guard is not Hank.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, good catch.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Different security guard.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hank took a personal day, you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess so. Well, Michael attempts to resuscitate the bird in the kitchen. Angela, you're not pleased.

[Angela Kinsey]

So Michael is determined to save this bird. He brings it into the kitchen. Angela Martin is not pleased. She's like, no, that shouldn't be in here. Get it out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, she is not pleased. And Angela, she's not wrong.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. Thank you, Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're welcome. You're welcome. We had a fan question from Ellie Friedlander. She wants to know, was that a real dead bird? No, no, no, no. Ellie was a fake bird. I reached out to Phil. He told me that he found three dead fake bird options and presented them to Jen, Roger, our director, and Greg. They chose the one that you see in the show. And Angela, I have to say, when he texted me back that he presented the three dead birds, I imagined in my head that they were on a silver tray. Because remember, Phil would always present you your props on a silver tray.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I was just imagining it. And I wrote it back and I said, phil, were they on a silver tray? And he said, you know me too well.

[Angela Kinsey]

These are the moments in our show where I'm like, hey, babe, how was your day? What'd you do today? Well, I had to find three fake dead birds. Yeah, I scoured.

[Jenna Fischer]

Or like, like when Greg goes home and his wife Suzanne is like, hey, hon, how'd it go shooting today? He's like, great. I picked a dead bird. Yeah, I picked the yellow one.

[Angela Kinsey]

I made my dead bird selection.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, exactly. Well, Michael then tells the staff, Attention, attention. We are holding a funeral for this bird at 4pm in the parking lot. Be there. It's on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna. Now I think it's time to check back in on Jim and Karen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. Have they found the chips?

[Angela Kinsey]

Where are they? Where are they in their search for this very hard to find potato chip.

[Jenna Fischer]

Bag that's actually in the vending machine.

[Angela Kinsey]

That might be in the vending machine.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is in the vending machine.

[Angela Kinsey]

That, according to a fan catch, is B1 in the vending machine.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's right there waiting for them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Karen kind of impresses Jim because she decides to call Montreal, the Montreal factory, to see if they have them. And she speaks French. Mais oui. Mais oui. Mais oui. A lot of people wrote in about this. Brianna Bullard and many, many others want to know, does Rashida Jones actually know French? So I texted Rashida, since we're already texting about her breakfast order. She's probably like, angela, what is happening? This is what she said. She goes, no. At this time, I didn't know French. I worked really hard on that line. But a few years later, I ended up going to France to do a French immersion school in the south of France. Maybe this scene was the beginning, and it got me inspired. Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's crazy. She did not speak French, but now she does.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I was like, I want to go to a French immersion class in the south of France. That sounds amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Same. Same. I took French in high school.

[Angela Kinsey]

You did?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I have a story about that, actually.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I tell this real quickly?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I took French in high school from Sister Landry. I went to a Catholic school. Sister Landry was my French teacher. And I dreamed. I told you guys this before. I dreamed from the time I was a little girl that I would one day go to Paris. And then in my 30s, that finally happened. Of course, at this point, I was now very far from my French training. Couldn't really speak French. But Lee and I, we went to a little farmer's market. And I guess in France, you don't touch the fruit. Uh, oh, okay. You don't select your own produce. You point to it, or you trust the person selling the produce to select the best pieces for you. I didn't know this. Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I would have been. I pick up things, I thump them, I smell them.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, lady, don't do it. If you go to a farmer's market in France, here's my hot tip for you. Do not touch the fruit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Don't thump the melon.

[Jenna Fischer]

The melon in France. Okay, okay. Now, all through this trip, we'd been going to restaurants and we'd been going to tourist places, and I was just fumbling with my French. I Couldn't get anything out. I could read the menus, but I couldn't order anything. I was. I thought I was going to really help us, but I couldn't help us. But here we are. We're at this little market. I have done the faux pas. I believe that's French. The faux pas of touching the fruit. And this woman turns to her co worker and goes off on me. She, in French, is calling me, like, kind of like, you're a piece of trash, basically.

[Angela Kinsey]

Whatever.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was just these Americans come here and they touch our fruit. She was, like, going on and on, okay, in French. I. I was this mixture of just, like, embarrassed, but also felt like, I'm sorry. How was I supposed to know that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm a nice person.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm not a bad person. I'm sorry. I picked up that banana, and Angela.

[Jenna Fischer]

This fluent French spilled out of my mouth at this woman. And in French, I suddenly had the command to say, I'm so sorry, but in the United States, we pick our own fruit. I didn't know about your custom. I apologize, but you don't need to say nasty things about me. And the look on her face was like, oh. Because she certainly didn't think that the fruit touching American could speak French or understand French. And by the way, I didn't know that I had such a command of the language until I was insulted in a farmer's market in Paris.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then your superpower came out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know how, like, some. Some superheroes, their power doesn't come through until they're in crisis?

[Jenna Fischer]

I was like a mom lifting a car off her baby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so now we're back at Dunder Mifflin, and Kelly is crying by the copier in the annex. Yeah, she is in tears. Michael thinks he's finally made a breakthrough until she reveals that she's really crying about her plans with Ryan. I have a question about this scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is up with this second copier in the annex? Is it always there?

[Angela Kinsey]

I have never seen it before.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is happening?

[Angela Kinsey]

I think they just rolled it in from the bullpen for the scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like they did. And they did it because in the background in the break room, Dwight is in there. You can see him over Kelly's shoulder trying to shove this bird into an empty soda can. I feel like that's why they had to put the copier there, to combine these two moments, to have a reason for Michael to be back there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right. And for him to see over his shoulder and all of that. Exactly. That copier did not live there in that hallway. They just shook it there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I did not think so. I feel like I will track this. It's gonna be a soft track, but I am gonna look for this co.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it should be a very soft track, because I. I would be bold enough to say I think it might be the only time it's in the annex. I know that's setting myself up for some fan mail of, like, Angela actually in season eight. But I'm just saying I don't. I don't think that copier visits the annex very often.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. But this leads us into one of my favorite Dwight talking heads, where he explains he's justifying why is he shoving this bird into a can. And it's because he grew up on a farm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, guys, they reburied his grandfather in an old oil drum. Okay, hold on.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, the same grandfather that was buried in the suit that he wore? Like, what's happening? How many times has this guy been brought up out of the ground?

[Jenna Fischer]

This is one of my favorite things about our show. Teresa S. Also loves it. She wrote in to say in Casino Night, Dwight says that his grandfather was buried in the tuxedo he's wearing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And in grief counseling, he said his grandfather was reburied in an oil drum.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Reburied.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

She wrote reburied.

[Angela Kinsey]

What happened?

[Jenna Fischer]

What is the story behind Dwight's grandfather? Was he exhumed for some reason? And did Dwight take the tuxedo off his dead grandfather?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Before reburying him and then fold him up? It sounds like it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Then he folded him up and tried to shove him in a drum.

[Jenna Fischer]

Teresa. That's exactly what it sounds like. This is some of my favorite writing on our show. In that moment in Casino Night when Dwight just says he's wearing a tuxedo. My grandfather. Grandfather was buried in it. That's it. We say no more about it. And then three episodes later, he's like, when my grandfather was reburied. And it's like, slowly, it's all coming together sort of. Sort of not completely. Is one of my favorite bits of how our show is written.

[Angela Kinsey]

So now we're at reception, right? And Pam has prepared this really beautiful box for the bird funeral. I mean, it is amazing, the attention to detail. She asked Dwight if he would perhaps want to play a song. She's like, do you have your recorder? He's like, always, always has always, always. And, you know, Pam has this really sweet talking head where she's like, well, you know what? I didn't anticipate I'd be throwing a bird funeral today, but you never know working here.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. We had a fan question from Andrew. Asks, did Jenna make the box for the bird funeral herself, or was that a filche creation? Either way, how was it constructed? Well, guys, I did not make it. Phil Shea made it. He said he actually made a few options and presented them again to Jen and Roger and Greg. They picked the one that they liked, and then Phil had to make multiples of it because, you know, it gets set on fire.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he had to make a whole bunch of those. I looked it up in the script, and it was described in the script. So here's what Phil had to go off of it. Said it is a hollowed out tissue box with tissue padding in the center for the bird to lie on. And the outside is decorated in tissue paper and has a tiny little toothpick cross. My favorite part are the.

[Angela Kinsey]

The handles.

[Jenna Fischer]

The handles made out of the pencils. So that was a fill addition. That was just fill.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Yeah. He needed to make sure that tiny bird casket had little bars for his. The pallbearers. That's right, the tiny pallbearers.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. We are gonna wrap things up in Stamford now, guys. Jim found the chips. He left them on her desk. He's quite pleased with himself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I really wanted my mom to record a sting that said Flirty Jim, but we. We couldn't. We couldn't get it together.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, these scenes drove people crazy. I went back and looked at some of the comments from when this aired. Oh, here is what they said. D. Temp said, I feel kind of weird about Jim and Karen, but Hartman said the Karen thing. Why, oh, why am I liking it? But I am.

[Angela Kinsey]

Whoa. I remember people freaking out about it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Keely said, Jim and Karen have great chemistry. And Mandy said. Okay, I'm sorry. I can't believe there are actually people out there who are okay with Jim hooking up with Karen.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what I remember.

[Jenna Fischer]

But Kim E. Said this. Jim likes to buy chips for all his ladies. And I'm with you, Kim. As Pam. I'm like, oh, is this what you do? You just find all the girls their favorite chips?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's his game.

[Jenna Fischer]

Are we saying that right? Oh, is that your game?

[Angela Kinsey]

You and I. I. 100%.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm sure we are.

[Angela Kinsey]

Doubt we are.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sam's giving us an okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sam gave us an okay. That's his game.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, should we go to this bird funeral, Angela, I can't wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

Please take me there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we're out in the driveway really next to the warehouse.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was an actual parking lot that we used, and it was right next to the warehouse. And that's where we filmed this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Michael is very moved by Pam's beautiful coffin. It starts with Pam saying a few words about the bird, but we. We slowly realize that Pam is speaking about the bird, but she's speaking to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Michael about his feelings about death and.

[Jenna Fischer]

Loss and about his aloneness. She talks a lot about how just because the bird was alone doesn't mean he was unloved, that he was very loved and respected by the other birds.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then she sings a song. I was very surprised by this for Pam. She really put herself out there. She sings on the wings of Love. She's accompanied by Dwight on the recorder. Michael is very moved. He's holding hands, he's swaying. He's tearing up.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got a lot of questions about this scene. Richard H. Really covers them all. He says, did Rain already know how to play the recorder? Did Jenna sing the entire song or did the singing end where the scene was cut? He also wanted to know, did we rehearse our duet? Here's what I can tell you. Yes. Rain knew how to play the recorder. Remember he played it and take your daughter to work day.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's actually very good.

[Jenna Fischer]

But listen to all of the instruments that Rain can play in real life. Angela. He can play the recorder. Piano, clarinet, saxophone, bassoon, guitar, drums, xylophone, bells and a little tuba and baritone.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are you, a one man band, Rain?

[Jenna Fischer]

He kind of is.

[Angela Kinsey]

I knew you could play the bassoon because your book the Bassoon King is great. So I knew that, but I didn't know you were a walking one man show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Suffice it to say, Rain knew his stuff. And we did rehearse, but just a little bit. Right before the scene, Rain and I practiced separately. I had listened to the song over and over again to memorize the words. I had to sing the first verse through the chorus. That's what I had to do over and over again. I was so nervous.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I thought you did fantastic.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a fan question from the scene. Jenna. Okay, so Chelsea wrote in and said, was Angela's Amen improvised? A lot of people wrote in about this because it was so quick. After Pam is done talking, people wanted to know if I improvised that. No, that was scripted. And folks wanted to know why did Angela do it? And I said, I think personally, the direction that you know, they gave me was that Angela had had enough of this charade, this bird funeral. Pam had gone on and on. Enough. Amen. I'm done.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that's how you finish it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Amen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Amen. I'm finished.

[Angela Kinsey]

Amen. Stop talking.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, exactly. Speaking of the script, I have a script catch. Okay, so, you know, in the scene, we set the box on fire. In the shooting draft of the script, we buried the bird. There was a scene where Michael and Dwight are digging a hole outside. And then we all gather around this hole, and it got changed to fire. But I don't know why. I think maybe Angela. There was really no grass in this area that we shot.

[Angela Kinsey]

We had no grass. There was a hedge with maybe like, I don't know, three feet of dirt. Like, yeah, there was. I mean, not even. There is a deleted scene where Michael and Dwight are trying to dig a hole there. And then the business on the other side yells at them and they run away.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, okay. Well, there you go. Well, we had another fan question about this fire. Then Clara Johnson wants to know, did you actually set the bird on fire? Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Real fire, fake bird.

[Jenna Fischer]

Kent told me they had to hire a special effects guy to oversee the fire and the extinguishing, and they had to get a special permit to be allowed to set the fire. And he said, we did three takes. Three takes. The fire. And Phil told me, though, that the special effects guys were worried that the fake dead bird might give off toxic fumes when it burned. So they actually took it out of the box and just put a wad of toilet paper in there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, not toilet paper.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Too soon. Too soon, Angela. Too soon.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then finally, we had a fan catch from Peter K. He said, I noticed the box was burned in some shredded paper. Could this be further evidence that Pam does use the shredder?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, look at that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Nice one, Peter.

[Angela Kinsey]

It would appear so. Well, you know, Jen actually left us a really great message about this scene. And she was talking about the fact that we never got to shoot outside. And when we did, everyone would get really excited. And she explains a little bit about that. So, Sam, can you play that?

[Jen Salata]

One thing that I remember from the grief counseling episode is that when I went to the sound mix, they were showing us the playback of the episode, and it was still a little bit unusual when the characters went outside. It was still a little bit of a treat. So we get to this bird funeral scene, and our characters are outside, and I just remembered hearing kind of an enormous amount of birds, and I think that it was because we were outside. It was because we had a bird funeral. It was so exciting for the amazing sound people who do a fantastic job to put a lot of bird noises in because for the longest time when we're inside the office, they're just putting dot matrix printer sounds and just faxes and old fashioned office noises. So it must have been such a treat in a field day to be able to go outside and hear birds and especially on theme with the funeral. So I remember there's a slight exaggeration, but it sounded a little bit like Alfred Hitchcock. The birds when first. When I first heard the playback for the bird funeral.

[Angela Kinsey]

But.

[Jen Salata]

But they quickly made a wonderful adjustment and it was the right amount of outside birds.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that. I love that our sound mixers got so excited. They put like hundreds of birds and they were like, okay, guys, there's not this many birds outside. Let's. Let's dial it back.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Yes. Oh, what good insight from Jen this week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Thank you so much, Jen Salata, for sending in those clips and for texting me. You are amazing. We so appreciate it. And thank you, Rasheeda, for letting me bug you about all kinds of random things yesterday.

[Jenna Fischer]

And also Phil Shea and Kent Sabornak. Thank you guys for helping us make this podcast so great.

[Angela Kinsey]

And thanks so much to Mindy Kaling for letting us take a clip from your book. Is everyone hanging out without me? And other concerns. It's hilarious. We love you, Mindy.

[Jenna Fischer]

So there you have it, guys. That's the grief counseling episode. Did we do it? Are we leaving you depressed? I hope not.

[Angela Kinsey]

I hope not. And hopefully next week we won't have any more dead birds to tell you about in our lives. Stay safe out there, flying friends.

[Jenna Fischer]

Stay safe out there, everyone. We love you. Thank you for listening to Office Lady's second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jo, Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins and our audio engineer and associate producer is Daniela Silva.

[Jenna Fischer]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Wise Berman and Leah Reese. Dennis.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. If you live in California and you're looking to buy a home, let's face it, buying a home in California can feel like a lot. It is overwhelming. But with a realtor, it doesn't have to be.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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