Second Drink: Pilot

Summary

Summary of Office Ladies Podcast Episode: "Second Drink: Pilot"

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Introduction

In the November 11, 2024 release of the Office Ladies podcast titled "Second Drink: Pilot," hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey revisit and dissect the pilot episode of the beloved TV series The Office. This episode serves as a deeper dive following their initial breakdown, offering enhanced insights and exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two former cast members can provide.

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Revisiting the Pilot

Jenna and Angela express their excitement and satisfaction with their rewatch of the pilot episode. Jenna shares her initial reaction:

Jenna Fischer [02:07]: "I re listened to this episode, and I thought we killed it. I really did. I thought we did an amazing job."

Angela adds her agreement, highlighting their thorough exploration of the episode:

Angela Kinsey [02:19]: "I re listened, too. And I was like, damn, okay. But we did go digging around, and we found a few more things we could share."

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Behind-the-Scenes Insights

1. Audition Experiences and Deleted Scenes

   • Jenna’s Audition Story: Jenna discovers her original audition materials, including a deleted talking head scene revealing Roy’s unconventional proposal to Pam via a Valentine’s Day newspaper ad.

     Jenna Fischer [02:37]: "All right, here it is. This is what I said... Which I think is great, because it’s not every day that you get something that's both romantic and thrifty."

   • Angela’s Deleted Scene: Angela discusses an early deleted scene where Dwight is distracted by the boom operator's microphone, illustrating the show's commitment to authenticity.

     Angela Kinsey [04:44]: "It was one of those early talking heads where Ken Kwapis, our director, would just sit us down and start asking us a series of questions to get us talking in character."

2. Filming the Pilot

   • Real Office Environment: The pilot was shot six months prior to the rest of Season 1 in an actual office building in Culver City, which contributed to the authentic documentary-style feel.

     Jenna Fischer [15:46]: "We filmed the pilot six months before the rest of season one. And we shot it on the second floor of a real office building in Culver City."

   • Director’s Rules: Director Ken Kwapis implemented specific rules to maintain the documentary illusion, such as limiting crew presence and simulating real office routines.

     Angela Kinsey [16:30]: "He cleared the entire set of all crew members except for a camera operator, a boom operator, and himself."

3. Character Development and Creative Collaboration

   • Michael Scott’s Depth: Insights into how Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant influenced Michael Scott’s character, ensuring he had glimpses of competence alongside his buffoonish demeanor.

     Jenna Fischer [32:08]: "He... suggested he say that you show glimpses of him actually being a good salesperson. And we do that throughout the show."

   • Jim and Pam’s Relationship: The hosts emphasize the foundational moments of Jim and Pam’s flirtatious interactions, setting the stage for their evolving relationship.

     Angela Kinsey [43:50]: "It is one of the cutest things. It is so pure."

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Notable Scenes and Moments

1. Michael’s Fake Firing of Pam

   • This pivotal scene showcases Michael’s misguided attempt at humor, leading to emotional fallout when Pam is genuinely hurt by the prank.

     Jenna Fischer [57:50]: "So, you guys were amazing in accounting."

   • Jenna reflects on the extensive filming process:

     Jenna Fischer [58:09]: "We shot that scene probably 30 times."

2. Stapler in Jell-O

   • An iconic prank where Jim places Pam’s stapler in Jell-O, exclusive to the American version of the show.

     Angela Kinsey [43:56]: "How? Because how I am blown away every time I see a fan tag me in a photo where they put something in Jell-O."

3. Dwight’s Singing of "Little Drummer Boy"

   • Dwight’s musical moment in the pilot is echoed later in the series, sparking fan theories about intentional nods or delightful coincidences.

     Angela Kinsey [50:02]: "I think it's a coincidence. But how?"

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Cast Interactions and Dynamics

1. Steve Carell’s Professionalism

   • Both hosts praise Steve Carell for his kindness and professionalism off-screen, contrasting with his quirky on-screen persona.

     Angela Kinsey [27:51]: "Steve Carell is one of the nicest people you will ever meet."

     Jenna Fischer [28:21]: "We would sit and have long conversations about the best frozen yogurt in the San Fernando Valley."

2. Rainn Wilson’s Method Acting

   • Jenna recalls her initial impressions of Rainn, noting his intense commitment to character even during auditions.

     Jenna Fischer [20:10]: "I thought he was the weirdest person I'd ever met in my life."

3. Phyllis Smith’s Transition

   • Phyllis Smith, originally a casting associate, is brought into the show due to her earnest performances during audition reads.

     Jenna Fischer [36:42]: "She was so earnest that Ken said to Greg Daniels, 'I want her on the show.'"

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Fan Theories and Hidden Details

• Boom Mic Accidental Cues: Addresses fan theories about subtle camera mistakes, clarifying that many such moments were left intentionally to preserve the documentary feel.

  Angela Kinsey [50:06]: "They left it in. Cause it's a documentary."

• Shared Moments Across Seasons: The hosts explore interesting coincidences, such as Dwight singing "Little Drummer Boy" in the pilot and Angela’s later performance of the same song in Season 3.

  Jenna Fischer [50:57]: "It's a pretty cool observation. I actually really love these fan theories..."

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Personal Reflections and Emotional Highlights

• Podcast Beginnings: Jenna and Angela candidly discuss their nervousness about starting the podcast, emphasizing the emotional significance of revisiting The Office.

  Angela Kinsey [62:12]: "I literally teared up when we let you guys know we were doing a podcast."

• Impact on Lives: They reflect on how rewatching and discussing the pilot has rekindled their friendship and love for the show.

  Jenna Fischer [62:51]: "It's changed our lives forever."

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Conclusion and Future Episodes

The episode wraps up with Jenna and Angela expressing their gratitude to listeners and teasing upcoming discussions. They announce that the next episode will focus on "Diversity Day," encouraging fans to watch along and participate.

Jenna Fischer [63:01]: "We're going to be talking about Diversity Day."

Angela Kinsey [63:09]: "So much fun."

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Notable Quotes

• Jenna Fischer [02:07]: "I re listened to this episode, and I thought we killed it. I really did. I thought we did an amazing job."

• Angela Kinsey [26:03]: "We need to keep the heart beating on the show. That's the heart of the show."

• Jenna Fischer [43:56]: "It's a pretty cool observation. I actually really love these fan theories because I like to think that these accidents, or coincidences, if they are accidents, are part of a fun collective unconscious thing that kind of lend themselves to the magic of the show."

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Final Thoughts

"Second Drink: Pilot" offers an enriching exploration of The Office pilot episode, blending personal anecdotes with in-depth analysis. Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey provide listeners—both longtime fans and newcomers alike—with a comprehensive and engaging look behind the scenes, breathing new life into cherished moments from the show's inception.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Jenna Fischer]

This month is all about gratitude. And, you know, sometimes there's one person that we just don't thank enough, and that's ourselves. Because sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world. And it just. It's not easy.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not. It's a lot to hold.

[Jenna Fischer]

Listen, I think accessing gratitude is so good for your mental health.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And therapy is a great place to do that. And if you are thinking of starting therapy, you can give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule.

[Angela Kinsey]

Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am grateful for therapy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com officeladies today to get 10% off your first month.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's better. Help. H e l p.com officeladies well, it's my favorite time of year because this is the time of year we always go up into the mountains to the woods, and we get a cabin. And it's just that cozy time to be with family. I love it. And we always stay at an Airbnb. We want a kitchen. We want a yard. We want a fireplace. We can spread out. The kids aren't right on top of each other. I love to find a cozy cabin on Airbnb.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I also like an Airbnb over a hotel when I'm traveling because I like the added privacy. I like that I don't have to get fully dressed to have some breakfast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, there's that.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know me, and I like that my kids. Bedtime doesn't have to be my bedtime.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right. Because you're not sort of all crammed into the same space.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly. Well, the holidays are a big time for travel. Maybe you're heading out to see family in another city, and maybe you don't want to stay all on top of them either. Consider an Airbnb for your next adventure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Second Drink.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Every Monday, we are rerunning the Office. Ladies rewatch episodes in order from the beginning. And today we are taking a second drink of the pilot. I re listened to this episode, and I thought we killed it. I really did. I thought we did an amazing job. I was legitimately impressed. I mean, there is a ton of great info in this.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I re listened, too. And I was like, damn, okay. But we did go digging around, and we found a few more things we could share.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'll start. I have a background catch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

There is a kitten calendar at reception. Pam has a kitten calendar on the wall.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like Angela and Pam could have been friends if not for maybe everything.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I have another one. Last week, we had our interview with Alison Jones.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when I was digging around preparing for that interview, I found my audition materials. I had saved them. And in those materials, there was a talking head that I had to do for my audition, and it reveals how Roy proposed to Pam. Mm. And I know we shot it. It did not make it in the original episode, but I believe it is in the Peacock Superfan episode of the pilot. But I thought I could read it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, here it is. This is what I said. Yeah, we're engaged. Roy proposed on Valentine's Day. Well, he didn't actually do it in person. He did it through one of the little Valentine's ads in the paper. It must have cost money by the word because it only said, roy love Pam, marriage, question mark. Which I think is great, because it's not every day that you get something that's both romantic and thrifty, and that's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Really what everyone wants. Every young girl's dream is romance plus thrifty. I know, man.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, we all know Kevin's philosophy. Why say lot word when few word do trick? It's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

And look at all the ladies Kevin has.

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly. Incidentally, that talking head was taken from the British office. It was in the episode Training Day. I'm glad we didn't include it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I don't think we need that much information about Pam's unhappiness yet.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I like some of the backstory that we created for Pam and Roy. I love the stuff we're gonna find out about him and his brother leaving her at the hockey game and about the jet Ski, all that. So I like that stuff a little better.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, here's what I'm bringing to second drink today. When we originally broke down the pilot, Jenna, you talked about a fun deleted scene where Dwight is distracted by the boom operator's microphone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was one of those early talking heads where Ken Kwapis, our director, would just sit us down and start asking us a series of questions to get us talking in character. We didn't play it, but I thought it'd be fun for you guys to hear. No, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can you move it?

[Angela Kinsey]

Is that all right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Can you make that work? That's fine. You don't need it.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can. That's fine. We'll keep it. I'm sorry.

[Jenna Fischer]

It makes me nervous.

[Angela Kinsey]

Understood.

[Jenna Fischer]

But it's what we need to capture.

[Angela Kinsey]

What you're saying as clearly as possible.

[Jenna Fischer]

I understand it's in a blind spot because I'm trained in several martial arts, and one of them includes an awareness that the masters bring of anything on.

[Angela Kinsey]

All sides of you.

[Jenna Fischer]

It can be behind you or whatever. This is directly in a blind spot. So I'm trained to respond negatively to something right above my head. This now I have an eye on you see, it's in my periphery. And if I needed to block it, attack it, stop it somehow, I could come right out.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I know you're doing your.

[Jenna Fischer]

Job, but I'm doing my job.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is his job in this moment? To, like, karate kick the boom operator's microphone.

[Jenna Fischer]

His job in life is to be aware of any unexpected, I guess, danger. Correct.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. He is my chihuahua. He is biscuit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Yes. Well, I'm really glad you played that clip because I wished we had played it during our breakdown of the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

I also love hearing Ken.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, me too. Well, like I said, I really enjoyed re listening to this episode, so maybe we should get to it. Our second drink of the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

And be sure to join us this Wednesday for Office Lady 6.0. It is all about Michael Scott.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. You all wrote in and wanted to know more about Michael Scott's family of origin. Well, I uncovered some good stuff and I can't wait to share.

[Angela Kinsey]

She won't even tell me. She's keeping it a surprise.

[Jenna Fischer]

You have to wait till Wednesday.

[Angela Kinsey]

We'll see you Wednesday. But for now, here is the pilot of the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Ladies. Hello, everybody. This is Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi. This is Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

And this is our very first Office Ladies podcast.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am so excited, Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm so excited. I'm a little bit freaking out.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm freaking out. We hope you guys like it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We have been working really hard. This is a dream we've had for years of getting to work together again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because we became best friends while working on the Office together.

[Angela Kinsey]

We did. We ate lunch together every single Day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Every single day. And I think the hardest part for me about the show ending was not getting to see you every day, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is so special to get to work with your best friend every day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

What a gift.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was the thing, you know, Steve Carell told us, and I just love this moment so much. He said to Jenna and I, no matter what happens with the show, this is what you two will take from it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he was so right.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's true. And we've been trying to figure out some way that we could work together again ever since. So here it is. It's a dream realized.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a dream realized. We thought, what a better time. The 15 year anniversary is coming out and I had like three Rubbermaid bins of photos in my shed and I was going through them and I was getting really nostalgic. And I was telling Jenna about it. I was like, jenna, we had such an amazing time on that show. I mean, it just was one of the joys of my life.

[Jenna Fischer]

And, you know, I hadn't watched most of the episodes since they aired, so this has been a real treat for me to go back and finally rewatch them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me too. And it's so good, you guys. I mean, we become kind of nerdy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Fans of our own show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Become nerdy fans. And here's the thing, when we were filming it, you're kind of living and breathing the day of it. And I watched them all when they aired, but now I'm watching them just as like an audience. And it's just so fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's been so much fun. And I feel like here it is. It's the office bringing us back together again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so special.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so special.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, we're geeking out, so we're geeking out.

[Angela Kinsey]

And listen, you guys, we just want you to know we're so excited that you're going to, like, join us in this journey and rewatch every week with us. Listen to us chitty chat about being best friends. And there are gonna be times that maybe we forget something, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Or we miss something or we miss something. Cause we're not experts. We just. We're on the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're on the show and we love the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

You are actually probably the expert.

[Angela Kinsey]

You guys are the experts. So please watch along with us. Send in questions, and let's just rewatch it together.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we're gonna start from the beginning. We're gonna start with the pilot and we're gonna watch it in order.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh that brings us to the pilot.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is it.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is it. I feel it.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what we're gonna talk about today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so just so you know how Jenna works, you guys, she has, like, her list she prints out. She has her laptop, she has two notepads. And then I just bring a whole bunch of colored note cards with a Sharpie. That sort of paints a picture of how we process information.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. I'm a little bit more. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know, Jonah. You're more organized. It's okay. You can say it.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you're more colorful.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, well, okay. Well, I guess I'm gonna take that as a compliment.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so let's get started.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's get started.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're gonna talk about the pilot. This is season one, episode one. This episode is written by Ricky Gervais, Stephen Merchant and Greg Daniels, and directed by Ken Kwapis. Let's start with a synopsis.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think that's a good place to start.

[Jenna Fischer]

Great. All right, so in this episode, we're gonna meet the employees of Dunder Mifflin Paper Company, as introduced by their manager, Michael Scott.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is just a normal day at an ordinary, like, workplace. Just people living their lives.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. A pilot episode is usually introducing each of the characters and also the convention of the show. And in this case, the convention of the show is that this is a document.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right. This is the world you're gonna see every day. Is this paper company?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Now, I had an idea.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think for each episode, we should have something called Fast Facts.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are you even talking about? That sounds crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

A fast fact.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is a fast fact?

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, stay with me here. A fast fact is a fact about that episode, and then we talk about it. Not necessarily fast.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, do I have to talk quickly?

[Jenna Fischer]

No. Here's an example of a fast fact.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

The show the Office is actually an adaptation of a British show of the same name, the Office.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. It was called the Office. It was written by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. It's fantastic.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was a huge fan of it before I even went to the audition for the American version of the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Same. I had watched the entire series, and then I got a phone call that they were doing an American version and asking me to audition for the receptionist, and I about pooped myself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Yes. I was excited and nervous because I loved the British version so much, and I was like, oh, I hope they do it justice. And I mean, come on. Years later, I think we did it well.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got a lot of critical attention when we were making the pilot, and not a lot of love because people really thought we were gonna mess it up. People were worried because this, the British show, was award winning, critically acclaimed. It's considered still to this day one of the greatest television comedies ever made.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it deserves all of that. It is, because it is amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And so there was a lot of pressure on us when we were going in to make this. And something that I think is often said is that we did a shot by shot remake of the British pilot. Which is not true.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is not true.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is not a shot for shot remake. But we did use their script as a template and there are some adjustments.

[Angela Kinsey]

There are elements, though. There are elements that are the same that if you watch it and watch this one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. For example, in general, each of the characters and like the fact that there's this buffoonish, silly boss in their version named David Brent and ours, Michael Scott. But if you look at the talking heads, there are some differences.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And also, like, the way the story is told is a little different. I mean, some of the points are the same that happen, but it's told differently.

[Jenna Fischer]

But Greg Daniels was the person who was tasked with Americanizing the British show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant kind of oversaw that process. But they. For example, they were not on set when we were shooting the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Nope.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, they came and they visited with us. I remember sitting and getting to have lunch with Ricky Gervais.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Because I was such.

[Angela Kinsey]

Were you nervous?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. I was a super fan of the British version.

[Angela Kinsey]

Me, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I had been cast in the pilot. And they came and they listened to us do a table read. And afterwards they asked me, John Raine, Steve and BJ and Greg to join them for lunch to discuss the show. And I remember thinking, if I get fired tomorrow, at least I got to have lunch with Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. At least that happened. That was, to me, just huge.

[Angela Kinsey]

Was it a fun lunch? I was not at that lunch. I was not invited.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was so much fun, Angela. And I remember Ricky saying something in that lunch that was really important. He said, you know, in England, you can be really, really bad at your job for a long time and you never get fired. He's like, in America, that's gonna frustrate people. So my one piece of advice is that Michael can be a buffoon, he can be silly, he can be irritating. But you should. I suggest he said that you show glimpses of him actually being a good salesperson. And we do that throughout the show. You see in future episodes that he is actually good at sales. And he said, that's going to be an important, I think, piece of the puzzle. And Steven Merchant said, my piece of advice would be to lean a little bit more into the Jim and Pam relationship.

[Angela Kinsey]

He said he knew the heart of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said, that's really going to be the heart of your show. Because the British version, they did six episodes for their first season, six episodes for their second season, and one big Christmas special. And they knew that for American television, we were looking to do years, years, and we ended up doing 200. So he said, you need to keep the heart beating on the show. And so that's the heart of the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's Jim and Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, I have another fast fact. We filmed the pilot six months before the rest of season one. And we shot it on the second floor of a real office building in Culver City.

[Angela Kinsey]

So it was an actual office building. And a lot of times on sets, they build the office. So if they want to film and get a certain camera angle, they can move a wall, they can move a window, they can move a door.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because they built it, they actually say wall flying out, and they move a whole wall.

[Angela Kinsey]

They move a whole wall.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's insane.

[Angela Kinsey]

On our show, because it was in an actual office building. You just had to work with it. And it sort of really lended itself to the documentary style, that all the shots weren't going to look pretty. They weren't going to be lined up just right because they had to work around actual walls and windows. They couldn't just pop them out.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember speaking to Ken Kwapis, our director, about setting certain rules for the documentary style of filming. And he said it was very important to him that for all of the actors and the crew, that the set felt like a real working office and a real documentary was happening. And so one of the rules that he came up with was that he cleared the entire set of all crew members except for a camera operator, a boom operator and himself.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that was it.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was it.

[Jenna Fischer]

He also made all of the actors come in every morning, go through hair and makeup, and then sit at our desks starting at 7:30am and we had to pretend to work.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he walked around with the documentary crew and filmed us for 30 minutes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, just us quietly working.

[Jenna Fischer]

And little shots that you see, for example, of Pam doing whiteout. That is a piece of B roll from one of those working mornings that we did. And we did that every day on the pilot. Something else about this episode that I noticed is that there is a random exterior shot of a building.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, Jenna, let me tell you. Well, wait, wait. Let me grab one of my colorful note cards, as you call them. Exterior shot at 9, 29. 9 minutes and 29 seconds. Not our building.

[Jenna Fischer]

With a huge exclamation point. See, this is a big discovery.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is a big discovery for me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Not only not our building, it wasn't the building we were filming in. I don't know where they got that shot. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's like stock footage from something.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think it was stock footage. And then we never use it again. That was it.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was it.

[Jenna Fischer]

They should go back and take that out.

[Angela Kinsey]

See you later.

[Jenna Fischer]

And put a shot of the reels under Mifflin. Exterior.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna's getting sassy on you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I'm gonna call someone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Someone. Get it right.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, here is my last fast fact.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Meredith is not Meredith.

[Angela Kinsey]

She is not. She is Henriette. It's Henriette.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Meredith is played by Henriette Mantel in the pilot episode, Not Cate Flannery. This is true. Henriette Mantel was a comedy actress who had just broken out because she had played Alice in the Brady Bunch films and she was there for the pilot. And then it was six months later that we got picked up and then we started filming the rest of the episodes. And I guess the rumor was she was not available and we had to recast her.

[Angela Kinsey]

And so Cate Flannery came in. Here is my fast. Kate Flannery and I met years before the office. We were in a all female improv group called Bitch Planet. Woo hoo. Awesome. At like 10pm that's when you want to.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's exactly when you want your comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's when you want to watch improv. Kate and I had known each other for a really long time, and also Oscar Nunez and I did a sketch comedy show together called Hot Towel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where do you get these names, Angela?

[Angela Kinsey]

So it was really fun for me because here I am. Like, I was so nervous the first day. I didn't know Oscar had been cast. He didn't know I had been cast. You guys, this was sort of before. This was before smartphones. Like, it's not like you like texted someone, you got a role or you put it on your social media. There was none of that.

[Jenna Fischer]

So you walked in and were completely surprised.

[Angela Kinsey]

Completely surprised. When I saw Oscar. And not only did I see Oscar But Kin Kwapa sat us next to each other, so I was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna be okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

My buddy's here. And then Brian walked in as Kevin and I was like, here we go. We're off to the races.

[Jenna Fischer]

You guys were amazing in accounting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you so much. It's true. I'm giving you a compliment.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you so much. So, yeah, so I was so excited to have these friends that I had performed with for years before the office. Sitting in my little corner back there.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember meeting everyone for the first time. Do you remember your first impressions of people? I remember my first impression of Rainn Wilson.

[Angela Kinsey]

Tell me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I met Rainn Wilson at a live test audition. So for all the leads of the show, they brought us into screen test and they mixed and matched us. There were four PAMs and four Dwights and four Jims and four Michaels and we spent an entire day being mixed and matched with each other. And I remember I met Rainn Wilson and he was in character, but I couldn't really know that because I. I didn't know Rain yet. And I thought he was the weirdest person I'd ever met in my life.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, he was in character the whole time?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he just was quite so method, Rain like that.

[Angela Kinsey]

So method.

[Jenna Fischer]

But you know what? I kind of did the same thing. I did my Pam hairstyle. The hairstyle that I wore on the show I sort of invented through the audition process that sort of half up, half down, scrunchy, air dried, curl. And so I was very quiet. I didn't talk to people in the waiting room because I just thought Pam was sort of not a chatter and I didn't want to get out of character.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember one of the first things. This is so random, but it's true. That first week of filming, Rainn's wife came to have lunch. And this is the main interaction I remember from Rain. During the pilot episode, Rainn introduced me to his wife. She was pregnant at the time with their son.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he said, this is my wife Holly, bearer of my seed. And I was like, what? And she started laughing. But that was just Rain being rain.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's Rain.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is rain. But wouldn't Dwight say that? He would also say bearer of my seed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. It's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's carrying my seed. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like we all had little parts of our characters in us, but I don't know if that's true of you because you are so opposite from Angela. Martin.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am. I was thinking about how you were saying, like, you stayed in character and so did rainn in between your auditions in the lobby. I would not have. I would have been like, chitty chat chat for sure. And then I would have just turned into a bitch when I entered the room.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, I didn't have any scenes with rain in the pilot of substance. I didn't have any one on one scenes. So for me, when we were shooting the pilot, the people that I really bonded with were Steve, John, and you because you were over the little. You were my closest seatmate in the office. So you and I bonded. And I remember after we finished the pilot and we all left and we didn't know if we were going to be picked up or make any more. Shortly after that, I turned 30 years old. It was a big milestone birthday for me, and I really wondered if I should invite any of you guys. And I didn't. I didn't invite you guys because I thought, well, I'm probably never gonna see them again.

[Angela Kinsey]

Should I throw you another 30th birthday party and invite everyone?

[Jenna Fischer]

Would you?

[Angela Kinsey]

And then we could just say, Happy 30th, will you? Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Cause now you guys are some of my closest friends and you aren't at my milestone birthday.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw. Okay, we have to throw you a 30th birthday party. It won't be weird.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, guys, so next up, we are going to break down this episode. We're gonna really get into the nitty gritty. We're gonna talk about scenes and. And stories. So stick with us.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, sweet Peloton. I love my peloton. Peloton has workouts for every mood. My general mood is I don't feel like doing this, but Cody Rigsby, he gets me there.

[Angela Kinsey]

You love Cody. Here's what I like about peloton. I love the variety of training programs because I'm not going to want the same workout that Josh wants. We're super different. And peloton has something for both of us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, there's so many ways to challenge yourself. If you're training for a 5k, a 10k, a marathon, they have programs for strength training. They've got boot camps. Oh, my gosh. They have pilates. They have just great stretching.

[Angela Kinsey]

And their coaches are really motivating. They keep you going.

[Jenna Fischer]

Find your push, find your power with Peloton. @onepeleton.com we've been talking about the simplisafe home security system for a long time. Now and I'm very excited because SimpliSafe is now offering our listeners 60% off. Just visit simplisafe.com officeladies well, you guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

SimpliSafe is offering our listeners exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale this week only. You can get 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is their best offer of the year. Head to simplisafe.com officeladies that's simplisafe.com officeladers there's no safe like Simplisafe. Klarna is your smarter everyday spending partner. For the holiday season. Shoppers can use Klarna's Pay in 4 product to split their purchase into four interest free payments.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's really great, especially this time of year when I feel like we're all spending a little bit more than we usually do. This is an opportunity to stretch your payments over time which makes them just so much more digestible. Klarna enables smarter shopping through their cash back offering the Klarna card and their search and compare feature. I mean that's pretty cool. If you know there's something you want to get, Klarna can help you figure out the best place to get it for the best price. Choose Klarna at your favorite retailers or shop [e-mail] CA resident loans made or.

[Angela Kinsey]

Arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License NMLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required. Klarna may get a commission. Limitations, terms and conditions apply. All right, Ann, we're back. We're talking about the pilot episode of the Office and I think we should talk about some of our favorite moments. Jenna?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, well, one of my favorites moments is the dynamic between Pam and Michael. I mean, selfishly, I guess I'm in that moment. But I really loved working with Steve Carell. I really loved how much he let me be silent and just look at.

[Angela Kinsey]

Him and just react.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, I loved that. But I especially love whenever Melora Hardin, who plays Jan Levinson Gould, got in the mix.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's so commanding. Just like Melora's presence is like I'm scared of her. Yes, I get it. I get why he was a little scared of her.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I love the scene where Michael tries to throw Pam under the bus about why he doesn't have the agenda that he's supposed to have. And it's because he told her to throw it in the receptacle, the trash can that is a special filing cabinet for corporate memos. And I remember shooting that scene and I just remember every time that Pam said, you told me to put it in a special filing cabinet that is a trash can, that we would giggle. And so I just remember the matter of factness of that moment and how fun that was.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pam totally stood up for herself in her own little way in that moment. Here's the thing about Steve Carell. He is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He is so nice. I know. It's almost even become like a joke, like Steve Carell's the nicest person ever, but he is.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. And people ask me a lot, what's it like to work with Steve Carell? Are you just laughing all the time and no, you're not laughing all the time. Because Steve isn't on all the time. He's not one of those. He's a real person. He's a real person and he's, he's. I've worked with comedians who are on all the time who walk around and you can just. They can't turn off their joke making brain.

[Angela Kinsey]

I drive my car.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sorry, it's a little insane. Steve is not like that. You and Steve and I would sit and have long conversations about the best frozen yogurt in the San Fernando Valley.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I will never forget the morning on Monday mornings, Steve would come out of his office, out of Michael Scott's office. Between scenes, he would walk over to Jenna and I and we would talk about our weekends. And one Monday morning he walked over and he was like, ladies, guess what I did this weekend? We're like, what? And he goes, I went to Target.

[Jenna Fischer]

He would talk to us about his Target run. It was really, really sweet. You know, recently I was in a Michaels purchasing some supplies for a crafting job. And the checkout guy said, oh my gosh, now this is getting crazy. This morning Oscar Nunez came in here, then Steve Carell, and now you. What, do you guys all live here?

[Angela Kinsey]

We love crafting. We love crafting. And we're all here.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're all sort of. I guess we all live around this one Michaels crafting store. I texted Steve and I said, Steve, the checkout guy at Michael's, told me you were buying some crafting supplies today. And he said, oh, yes, I needed some glue sticks. And he sort of told me what he needed. He's. What were you there for?

[Angela Kinsey]

But that is Steve.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is Steve. That's the kind of stuff we would talk to him about. And so to then. To have that man then shift into this scene where he's just being awful to my character. Awful.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like throwing you under the bus in front of the big boss lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. When our real dynamic was just like, so much, so much love. So in the scene, Jan tells Michael there's going to be downsizing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is big news.

[Angela Kinsey]

Big news.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is important. Michael should be paying attention. We've already established that he's thrown away the agenda for the meeting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, he should take this seriously.

[Jenna Fischer]

But instead, he takes a phone call from his friend Todd Packer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Todd Packer, his party buddy, who he clearly covets. He thinks this guy's amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Another interesting fact about this scene is that the voice of Todd Packer that comes on the phone is not the voice of the real Todd Packer.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are you talking about?

[Jenna Fischer]

Dave Koechner ends up playing Todd Packer when we meet him in season two. This role is played by Dave Koechner, but Dave was not hired when we shot the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

What? He's not.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, I was think it sounds like Dave Koechner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Who is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

But I'm thinking it can't be Dave Koechner. Right?

[Angela Kinsey]

All this time I thought it was Dave Koechner.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's not Dave.

[Angela Kinsey]

Who is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

I texted Dave Rogers, our editor, knower of all things.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, he is knower of all office facts.

[Jenna Fischer]

He is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. What did Dave say?

[Jenna Fischer]

Dave said that the voice is played by Toby Huss.

[Angela Kinsey]

Toby Huss?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Very famous voice actor. He was on King of the Hill for years.

[Angela Kinsey]

And friends of Greg Daniels.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Toby Huss is so talented.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

How about that?

[Jenna Fischer]

That is Todd Packer's voice in the pilot episode. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I loved. Here's one of the things I loved about the pilot and just sort of the brilliance that was Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant and Greg and their collaboration building this world out is that so many, like, truths about the characters were established in all these subtle ways. And one of the things I loved is that Michael is clearly thrilled that the camera people are there. Oh, he is so excited.

[Jenna Fischer]

He could not have signed up for this fast.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, he jumped at the chance at this and he thinks he is One of the world's best comedians.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

In the world. He is one of the funniest people in the world.

[Jenna Fischer]

He has that amazing talking head where he talks about who his heroes are.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they are Bob Hope, Abraham Lincoln, Bono, and God.

[Angela Kinsey]

Probably. He said probably.

[Jenna Fischer]

Probably God. And here's a little tidbit Steve wrote that.

[Angela Kinsey]

He did?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God, I love that. I didn't know that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Greg asked him, would you mind writing a list of who you believe are Michael Scott's heroes?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, so brilliant, Bob.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it made it in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, well. And he just. Every chance he gets, he's, like, looking to the camera and doing his comedy bits. And this sort of sets up just Michael's love of being liked and being appreciated. And he wants everyone to think he's, like, the fun boss and he thinks he's legitimately talented.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, there's that scene where he does the $6 million man where he's walking away from Pam's desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

I could not get through that scene. And in fact, in order to get my reaction shot, they had to make Steve leave the set because I couldn't get through it. So that react. Yes. That reaction of me was not while Steve was actually doing anything, because every time he did it, I laughed.

[Angela Kinsey]

I started laughing. Yeah, well, he's so giddy to do his $6 million man. I timed it. Cause as I watched it, I was like, wow, this is a long time to commit to this bit. Cause he's like, Fa ta. He did it. It started at 9 minutes, 40 seconds, and it doesn't end until 10 minutes, 2 seconds.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is 22 seconds of the slow mo bit.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think that's.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's a ton. When you think of, like, the whole scope of an episode for 22 seconds, he went, Fa ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ba, ta, ta.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, that's probably why I couldn't get through it. That's why they couldn't get a reaction of me because I couldn't hold it for 20 seconds. I couldn't hold a straight face that long.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he was so desperate for you to look at him and have some kind of reaction. Oh, man. Okay, what else? What else?

[Jenna Fischer]

There's the conference room scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where Michael officially announces that there is going to be downsizing at Dunder Mifflin. This is a big theme of the pilot. This is the news that Jan gives him when she comes into the office. That Dunder Mifflin can no longer support both a Scranton branch and a Stanford branch and that they're going to have to prove who is the branch that should stay. But even if Scranton gets to stay, there might be downsizing of employees.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. The company's hurting and they have to make some cutbacks and they have to fire some people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And so Michael goes into the conference room, and this is the first time we see Michael in the conference room. And of course, Dwight won't give him the space to do that.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's their first power struggle, which you'll see for years to come.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's the first time he refers to himself as the assistant regional manager.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is great. And I noticed something about this conference room scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

What? I bet I have it on my note card.

[Jenna Fischer]

I bet you have it that there are some extras in this scene that are never to be seen again. There are two women.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do you want me to refer to it? Let me just tell you what I wrote on my note card.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Conference room faces, semicolon.

[Jenna Fischer]

So in the background, there are two women, and they are the real production company accountants for our show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. We needed more people to fill out the space, and they pulled in our actual accountants from our production office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Ken Copas, the director, walked into the production office and asked if anyone would like to be in the background of a scene. And those two women came and sat there for that couple of hours. They were so giddy. They loved it.

[Angela Kinsey]

They loved it. They loved it. And then also in the conference room, some faces you might see sprinkled through the first season, but then they don't go past that season, are Luann Kelly, who worked in the Annex. She is someone that you see a lot. I get asked a lot. Who is the lady in the Annex?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. She was sort of over where Mindy ends up sitting by Kelly's desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then also, of course, Devon and Creed, who ultimately do have a storyline that will come later.

[Jenna Fischer]

Not until season two.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

So for an entire season, you just see Devon and Creed in the background of scenes. They don't get any lines until the second season.

[Angela Kinsey]

But that is the only scene our actual accountants are in. Because then they had to go back to work.

[Jenna Fischer]

They did.

[Angela Kinsey]

They had to actually go back to being accountants for the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think this is an interesting tidbit. Phyllis Smith, who plays Phyllis on the show, she was the casting associate for the Office. So when I auditioned for the Office, she read my audition scenes with me, Everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

I read my scene with Phyllis. That's who I read my scene with.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And Ken Kwopp Is the director with so taken with how she did her readings with the actors?

[Angela Kinsey]

She's so earnest, you guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

She is so earnest and so real that he said to Greg Daniels, I want her on the show. Can I give her a part on the show? And so Phyllis went from being a casting associate, which she had done for years with Alison Jones, the casting director, worked with Phyllis, to having a part on this pilot. And I think because we all thought the show was going nowhere, it was fine. And after the pilot was over, she went back to being a casting associate.

[Angela Kinsey]

She went right back to work. Phyllis has a great story that she tells that the way she found out that she got Phyllis is that she got sides. And they said Phyllis, you know, so.

[Jenna Fischer]

There was a character, and they named it Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Ken was like, that's you. You're Phyllis. And she was like, what?

[Jenna Fischer]

We wrote a part for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Based on the numerous readings with actors.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, you're now in the show Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is just so cool, because Phyllis had wanted to be an actress. She had been an actress. She had been a burlesque dancer.

[Angela Kinsey]

Burlesque dancer. No one can shimmy. No one can shimmy like Phyllis. Like, she has a great shimmy. She had an amazing photo on her desk because Ken Kwapis wanted us to personalize our desk for the pilot episode and moving forward. So we all brought in something from home. I have a photo of myself and my grandmother in a frame that says I heart grandma, and my eyes are closed in the photo, but my grandmother framed it anyway. And so I have that on my desk, and it just kind of, like, tickled me and made me think of my grandmother.

[Jenna Fischer]

I had a picture of me and my sister swimming in Lake of the Ozarks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And Phyllis had a picture of herself in her full burlesque outfit with a red feather boa draped over her shoulders.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela, let's take a quick break.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jenna, you gonna get a snack?

[Angela Kinsey]

Why?

[Jenna Fischer]

Because you always get a snack during the breaks. I do.

[Angela Kinsey]

Get ready, everybody, because Macy's Black Friday starts now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Shop early and score the best deals before they're gone.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love to get all of my shopping done early. I have a list that I make, and this year, I am going to Macy's.com to get all of those great deals, and then I don't have to worry the rest of the holiday season.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is my favorite thing. It makes December so much more pleasurable to me when I can get my gifts out of the way.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Shop early and score the best deals before they're gone. Visit macy's.com through November 23rd for early black Friday deals. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We have talked to you guys a lot about Squarespace. It is an all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place. All on your terms. You guys know we use Squarespace. We have for years. We love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Do you know a website I can get completely lost on in the best way I do? Wayfair. I know there is so much stuff that is so good. I like to get a bowl of my mini cheese crackers and pick out new stuff on Wayfair.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know you can walk through every room of my house and there's one item from Wayfair in each room.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like we're not telling people anything they don't already know. But Wayfair is the place to shop for all things home. Literally everything from sofas to spatulas. You name it, they have it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here are a few items from Wayfair in my house right now.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

A cozy chair. Two kids desks in their bedroom. Two nightstands and two bed frames.

[Jenna Fischer]

Everything you need for your living room. Outdoor areas. We didn't even talk about that. Bedroom and more. Wayfair makes it easy with fast and free shipping, even on the big stuff. And they'll even help you set it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

That's W a Y f a I r.com.

[Jenna Fischer]

So then we get to that crazy scene where Michael is walking Ryan the temp around. So he's just been told that we need downsizing, and then he hires a temp. It's the opposite of down.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's the opposite. Can I just say one thing I love, too, is when Dwight has his talking head and he said, I've been talking about downsizing for years. I brought it up in my interview. Like, who does that? He was, like, interviewing for a job, and it's like, you should downsize.

[Jenna Fischer]

I would like this job. I suggest you get rid of three other people. So here's a little fun fact. It's not a fast fact, but a fun fact is that BJ Novak was the first person cast on the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was. Greg Daniels saw him doing standup comedy, and he thought he was like, this guy. I want this guy. And so he offered BJ a role as both a writer and the role of Ryan the temp on the show. So when I came in for my audition, BJ was already cast. He was the very first person. And he was also the first example of that synergy of having people who were both performers and writers for the.

[Angela Kinsey]

Show, which was so great. Something that we haven't talked about, but we will talk about it many times, as the show goes, is that what a wonderful creative collaboration we had between the writers and the actors. And that was because of Greg Daniels. He sort of set the tone that he wanted this creative collaboration. He wanted to hear our ideas and he wanted writers on the set. And I think we were just so much the better for it. I've been on other shows now that where the writers and the actors are separate and there's not a lot of.

[Jenna Fischer]

Collaboration, and it feels weird after having experienced something else.

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fischer]

Greg really trusted us to be the experts of our characters. So whenever he was trying to mull something over or justify something, he would come to us and ask us. Just in the way that he went to Steve and said, hey, do you have any thoughts on who Michael Scott's heroes would be?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

He trusted us to have done our homework and know our characters so well that we could contribute.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it was great. It was really special.

[Jenna Fischer]

So also in that scene that is the famous stapler in Jell O. The stapler goes in Jello. I have seen so many people recreate this.

[Angela Kinsey]

How? Because how I am blown away every time I see a fan tag me in a photo where they put something in Jell O. I'm like, I'm very impressed. Where to Go.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Something we haven't mentioned is the flirtation between Jim and Pam in this episode. And it goes on through the whole first two thirds of this episode or three quarters of this episode. Little, little thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

What did I write on my pink note card, Jenna?

[Jenna Fischer]

Mixed berries.

[Angela Kinsey]

End quotes. He's on to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is one of the cutest things. It is so pure. It is like that's. That's flirting for them, that he knows your favorite yogurt.

[Jenna Fischer]

But up until the end, you are just sort of following this flirtation between the two characters. And then all of a sudden, Roy walks in the door. David Denman carrying that weird trash bag. We never know what's in that trash bag. What is he carrying?

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved it so much when John is. Jem is like, what's in the bag? And Roy's like, yeah, Jim, just tell her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, tell her I'll meet her in the car. Yeah, but I think it is such a. I remember watching the pilot with people and having them be shocked by, like, oh, wait.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, crap. She's been engaged three years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Three years since.

[Angela Kinsey]

Holy moly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And then Jim has that heartbreaking talking head. Do I think I'll be invited to the wedding? Oh, Jim. Breaking hearts. John.

[Angela Kinsey]

Chris, he's breaking hearts. He's right out of the gate. He's breaking hearts.

[Jenna Fischer]

He really is. So another really cute, flirty moment between Jim and Pam after the conference room scene where we all find out there's gonna be downsizing. The camera cuts to different groups of people talking about downsizing. But when it cuts to Jim and Pam, we are not talking about downsizing.

[Angela Kinsey]

What are you guys talking about?

[Jenna Fischer]

We are talking about your cat party. Do you remember this?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do. I do.

[Jenna Fischer]

So this is. I feel like this is really significant and kind of goes on the heels of what we were talking about with Greg wanting to collaborate with actors. So Ken said, listen, I'm just gonna roll the camera. You two just talk to each other. Don't push it. Just talk. Make each other laugh.

[Angela Kinsey]

And so here's something you should know, is that earlier in the scene, Ken had asked me if I would pass out papers in the background.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I only had three lines in the episode. They were, you know, otherwise, I was just background, basically for that, you know, pilot. So he asked me if I would pass out papers, and I had just doodled a little drawing of a cat. And I said, you're invited to Sprinkle's birthday party. I just sort of made up that my character had found a cat in the parking lot. I don't know. I was just sort of bored.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we all made up backstories.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ourselves.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just made up backstory that my character had found this cat in the parking lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I think it's really significant because you, in your character. Actory prep work, decided that your character was a crazy cat lady. I guess I did, because you kind of decorated your desk with some cats.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now, the prop department that set my desk had a paper clip holder that was a cat laying on its side, and it holds paper clips.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

I took it from my desk. I still have it. I might have stolen it as a memento. And so I think I was just looking at that and I was doodling. And truth be told, there's only about three things I can draw in real life that look like the actual thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

And one of them is a cat.

[Angela Kinsey]

One of them is a cat. I can draw.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's kind of true for me.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can draw a palm tree, I can draw a cat, and I can draw Snoopy. Hey, there you go. And I guess I had just doodled a cat, and so I'd written on. So maybe my poor skills at drawing is also what gave birth to this moment. But I drew this cat and I wrote, you're invited to Sprinkle's birthday party in the parking lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you gave it to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

I handed it to you.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember earlier, and it was weird. I remember getting it in the background of the scene and thinking, I don't know what this is, but I stuck it to my computer monitor.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it was on a post it. And you stuck it to your computer.

[Jenna Fischer]

So when Ken Kwap has asked me to talk to John about anything to do this scene. Just talk to each other. I noticed that post it note, and I said, are you gonna go? Something like, I hear Angela's cat party on Sunday. And he.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's like, oh, no, it's ridiculous.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, definitely not. And then we giggle. And that is the bit that they left in the episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that's the birth of Sprinkles.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was the birth of Sprinkles that turned into this cat birthday party. Greg honed in on that. He was like, what is the cat birthday party? And I said, well, Angela gave me this post it note about her birthday party for her cat or something. And he loved it. And then for four seasons.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We discussed Sprinkles until his untimely death.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, okay. Yes. That's another episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

I won't be thinking about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

One of my favorite Michael moments, too yeah, so that was really fun how just these little elements of us in the background sort of being bored and improvising made it into the show. Yeah, it's so special to me. All right, so I have something that I am so curious about. And Jenna, I don't even know if you know this fans out there. I don't know if you know it or if we need to text Dave Rogers, our editor extraordinaire. So, my Dwangela fans, did you notice in the pilot episode that Dwight is singing Little Drummer Boy as he unpacks his desk? Angela, he's singing like, come, they told me. But then he goes, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And then in season three, I karaoke Little Drummer Boy and Dwight joins in and sings with me. Now, that story is that I was very nervous to sing. I don't like singing in front of people. And Rainn, as Dwight just jumped in and kind of, like, supported me, so I wasn't up there alone. And he kneeled down and he held the microphone for me, and I'm just like, oh, my God. I mean, what? That's weird.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like that has to be a coincidence.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it's a coincidence. But how? And so many fans say to me, like, what amazing synergy it is that Dwight is singing Little Drummer Boy in the pilot. And then in season three, I sing it to him. Now, did a writer remember that? Was that something that like, or was that just in the subconscious of the show? I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know. You know what I found? I found this article, and I can't remember where. I apologize. I found an article that was all about secret messages in the pilot episode. And one of the secret messages that someone points out is that in the scene where Roy comes in the door for the first time, the boom mic dips into frame and. And someone wondered, was that a nod to the boom operator Brian that we will meet in season nine?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, that was just an accident.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was it foreshadowing to let us know that there are three men in Pam's life? Jim, Roy, and Brian?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, that was just a boom operator accident. And they left it in. Cause it's a documentary.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, we left that stuff in all the time. That was the thing that we. We coveted that we loved it. If the camera person fumbled or if the boom accidentally wasn't shot, we still used it. And we could. And that was actually great because sometimes you're on a set and your best take is ruined because of some, you know, technical problem. Technical accident on the set, but we were able to use all of it. We didn't have to put it on the cutting room floor.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. So, yeah. So no conspiracy, but yeah. I don't know if Dwight singing Little Drummer Boy in the pilot and Angela singing it in Benihana Christmas in season three is just a crazy coincidence. But it's cool, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's a pretty cool observation. I actually really love these fan theories because I like to think that these accidents, or coincidences, if they are accidents, are part of a fun collective unconscious thing that kind of lend itself to the magic of the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow, Jenna, that was really deep.

[Jenna Fischer]

It kind of was. I got real philosophical there.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I feel like I just had, like, a vision of what you were, like in college or something.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, you sat around, like, maybe, like, you wore, like, black turtlenecks and, like. I don't know. I've just been.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was kind of like. I was kind of like art show Pam with my turtleneck.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

My jumper.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I like it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Spilling philosophy. All right, Angela, what have you got for us?

[Angela Kinsey]

I only had one speaking scene in the pilot, and so did Brian. It was back in accounting when Angela and Kevin are trying to figure out who's going to be fired for downsizing. We were really nervous about shooting the scene. It's the only time we speak, and it was at the end of the day Ken Kwapis, who is. You know, we've said the nicest guy, was like, go ahead. And I said, somebody's gonna be fired. It'll probably be me. And Brian. As Kevin says, yeah, it'll probably be you. And Ken came up to me and goes, hey, Angela, can you do it again? And, like, just give it, like, half. Give it half.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hmm.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I guess I was like, was I too big? Was I Like, somebody's gonna be fired. It'll probably be me. And then so I was like, somebody will probably be fired. It'll probably be me. Someone's gonna get fired. Is that exact line, somebody's gonna be fired. It'll probably be me. Then he came up and he goes, half of that. I said, oh, okay. So then I was like, somebody's gonna be fired. It'll probably be me. And he goes, half of that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I said, oh, my God, I'm gonna get fired, because I'm like, an improv sketch comedy actor, and clearly I'm too broad. And so ultimately, the take they use, by the end of it, I literally was like, somebody's gonna be fired. It'll probably be me. And then Brian's like, yeah, it'll probably be you. And Kid was like, we got it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was like, do you wanna point out what you noticed about this scene as well?

[Angela Kinsey]

About.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. So, Kevin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here's my tidbit, guys. Is that when I watch this, and Brian, I wanna call you about it. You just sound like Brian to me. You don't sound like the Kevin voice. Okay, can we play it? I bet it's gonna be me. Probably.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, it'll be you.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's Brian.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh, that's Brian. That is Brian's voice. That's not. Because Kevin would have been like, yeah, it'll probably.

[Angela Kinsey]

It'll probably be me. Yeah, that's a horrible Kevin.

[Jenna Fischer]

We just really did not do that well.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I want to call Brian about it, but when I watched it, I was like, wait a second. Like, that's Brian. But I think in the pilot we were still sort of like figuring out our characters and who they were.

[Jenna Fischer]

However, I have to say, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

I went into the deleted scenes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

On the dvd, Season one dvd. And there is. This is something we did on the pilot. Some of it was an acting exercise where they called us each into the conference room separately and they just asked us unscripted lines about our characters and about our relationship to other characters. I remember this.

[Angela Kinsey]

It wasn't written.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was not written.

[Angela Kinsey]

We just improvised.

[Jenna Fischer]

So this was sort of, I think, an exercise that Ken wanted to do that Greg and Ken came up with. In addition to that thing where they filmed us all just working, they also filmed us being interviewed in character. And I think Greg thought, this will be great. Maybe I could use some of these little tidbits here and there. Well, there is a series of interviews with each of the members of accounting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where you guys are all trash talking each other very subtly. And Angela, you have this incredible deleted scene talking head where they ask you about Oscar.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is this where I compare him to a stapler?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Sam, can you pull that up so we can listen to that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oscar, how do I describe him? He's like a stapler. Do I need a stapler? Yes. But I'm still the one that has to push it down. I did. I improvised that because I was trying to think of, like, what? Like, how does Angela see Oscar? And he's just like, he's necessary, but he's. He ends up being more work for her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's annoying.

[Jenna Fischer]

What was so clear to me when I was watching Them was this accounting dynamic had already started. Yeah, this little pod that you guys form, this little trio. It was there from the very beginning. Also, I do have to point fans, all of the deleted scenes are fantastic. Rainn Wilson has some talking heads. There is a long extended deleted scene talking head of him talking to Ken Kwapis who played the documentarian for us. He would ask us the questions our director all about where the boom microphone was. Rain as Dwight was very distracted by the boom. By the boom.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he was saying, I really need you to move that. Ken says we can put it in your blind spot. And he says something like, I don't have a blind spot. I've been trained. So it's especially distracting for me. You need to understand that I'm highly trained. And it's just this little like non presentational conversation between Dwight and the documentarian about how to be mic'd.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just wanna say one thing. So many great things that were established in the pilot that you go on to see for years to come. Of course, one of the big ones is the Jim versus Dwight. Like sort of their battle. Right. And the pranks that Jim is gonna do on Dwight. And I love that. It just started out so simply with Dwight pushing all of Jim's papers back to his desk and then Jim making the pencil wall that it's just ridiculous. Like.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that was borrowed from the British show. In the British show they have the same desk war. But instead the Jim character piles up a bunch of boxes. He makes a box wall between the desks. And we did that when we filmed the pilot. We had Jim make a box wall. And in fact you can see it in the background of conference room scenes. You can see a bunch of boxes piled up on Jim's desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

Milady. I'm gonna go back and look later.

[Jenna Fischer]

When we got picked up, we reshot that scene and turned it into a little pencil thing. And you can also see that Rayn's hair is a little bit different in the pencil scene compared to the rest of the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not as poofy.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. Yeah, exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Rain as Dwight went through poofy hair phase. Which looks like they used a little miniature like rolling brush to blow dry his hair. And then he went through flat parted down the middle phase.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Rain created the hairstyle for Dwight and he's said before that it is based on the hairstyle that he when he was a 16 year old boy. And so he did his own hair for the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

That makes me laugh. I've seen those photos of Rainn. They're crazy.

[Jenna Fischer]

You wore your own clothes in the pilot.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wore my own clothes in the pilot.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so the last sort of thing I think we need to talk about is this big prank on Pam, quote, unquote. The scene where Michael fake fires her.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, he's so excited. Cause Jim has had a very successful prank, and Michael just. He wants to be in the spotlight. He wants to be the funny guy.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he's gonna show off for Ryan the tem, and he's gonna fake fire Pam. And it, of course, goes horribly wrong, and she ends up in tears. And we shot that scene probably 30 times.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

And at the beginning of the scene, you can see everyone in the background kind of getting ready to leave for the day. And all those people had to wait for hours. They would have to start in the background, and then we would do this whole scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh, I know, Jenna. I know. I was there. I had to grab my jacket, my coat, and my purse. Put them down. My coat and my purse.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think of any scene in the entire history of the Office, this is the one that I've done the most because we did about 30 takes of it that day. But it was also my audition scene. This was one of my audition scenes. And so I auditioned for months for this role.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did that scene one time when I auditioned for the role of Pam, and I didn't get it.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is such a crazy, crazy bit of trivia. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Your first audition for the Office was for the role of Pam.

[Angela Kinsey]

Was for the role of Pam. And I wore a pink sweater.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

We both had the same instinct, Sam. Worse. Pink sweater.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wore a pink sweater, my hair down, and I was told to look, you know, like, not too fancy. So I didn't do too much with my hair and makeup, and I went in and I did the scene, and it was for a room full of people, the producers. And when we got to the point where Michael fake fires you and you start to cry and you call him a jerk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

When I called him a jerk, everyone started to laugh. And I thought I did something wrong. I don't think they're supposed to laugh at this moment. And of course, like Jenna, you were so brilliant because you brought such a vulnerability to Pam that even though this job sucks and she hates it, she needs it. She needs this crappy job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you really felt her in that moment. You just. My heart broke for her. And when you call him a jerk, it's just like you're really wounded. And it checks Michael in his place of that wasn't cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, it's funny because this was a somewhat controversial scene about whether or not it should be included. When Ricky and Steven were counseling Greg, I understand that they told him that he should consider cutting this scene because they said that it's in their pilot and they felt like they always had to fight to come back from it, that it made the boss a little too mean and not. And so later they really leaned into his buffoonery. But Greg fought to keep it in. He thought, no, we're going to try it. We're going to let her cry. We're going to let Michael be mean to her. Now, there was an alt line where I think that sometimes instead of saying, you're a jerk, I said, you're a sad little man. And they said, that's too harsh.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's harsh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Too harsh.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can't come back from that. That is harsh. So here's a little fun tidbit. Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Another tidbit, not a fast fact.

[Angela Kinsey]

A tidbit from Angela Kinsey. When Michael wants to prank Pam in front of Ryan the temp, Michael, as Steve turns to Ryan, B.J. and says, have you ever seen, you know, do you like prank shows? Have you ever seen Punk'd? BJ was on Punk'd.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was on Punk'd.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was on season two of Punk'd. So I thought that was a nice little nod that he's looking at someone who was on Punk'd and says, do you like punk'd? And BJ's like, yeah, like, as Ryan. Anyway, that's a Kinsey tidbit for ya.

[Jenna Fischer]

So the end of this episode, Pam has been crying and Jim wants to cheer her up. So he puts Michael's world's best boss mug in Jell O. Now, this was exclusive to our show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

So the whole.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not in the BBC version.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. The mug itself is set up in an early talking head. And then this convention of ending the episode with Jim doing something sweet for Pam by putting the mug in Jell O. That was all Greg Daniels idea. And I think it's such a sweet way to end the show. Yeah, yeah. And so. And now. And then, of course, the iconic world's best.

[Angela Kinsey]

We just did it.

[Jenna Fischer]

We did it.

[Angela Kinsey]

We did it. We were really nervous.

[Jenna Fischer]

We did our first podcast, you guys. We really. We were really nervous. We actually, in the middle of doing this, I was getting so nervous that Angela made turn off the microphones and have a dance party.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

To loosen me up.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did. I put on Taylor Swift's paper rings and I made her dance around and get out of her head.

[Jenna Fischer]

I was spiraling.

[Angela Kinsey]

You were. But here's the thing. This is why we're nervous. It's because the show means so much to us and we are new, obviously, to the podcast scene. And your support has been overwhelming. I literally teared up when we let you guys know we were doing a podcast. And to the immediate support from all of you out there, I got a little emotional.

[Jenna Fischer]

Me, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I just. Thank you guys so much and just know how much it means to us that this show that is so special to us keeps finding an audience. It just really means the world to us.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's changed our lives forever. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So thank you. Thank you, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, first one next week, since we're going in order, we're going to be talking about Diversity Day.

[Angela Kinsey]

So much fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

So if you want to watch it with us, just watch Diversity Day by next Wednesday and then we'll talk about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you hear that? That's our theme music by my neighbor, Creed Bratton. It's his song rubber tree with Mr.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ed Helms on banjo. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies second drink this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, and our audio engineer and associate producer is Daniela Silva.

[Jenna Fischer]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Wise Berman and Leah Reese Dennis.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance, too. With the name your price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote [e-mail] to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.