Second Drink: Sexual Harassment

Summary

Office Ladies Podcast Summary

Episode: Second Drink: Sexual Harassment

Release Date: December 30, 2024

Hosted by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, co-stars from "The Office," the "Office Ladies" podcast offers an in-depth re-watch of classic episodes, providing exclusive behind-the-scenes insights and personal anecdotes. In this episode titled "Second Drink: Sexual Harassment," Jenna and Angela delve into Season 2, Episode 2 of "The Office," unpacking key themes, character developments, and memorable moments from both the show and their experiences on set.

---

Introduction to the Episode

As the hosts kick off the podcast, they briefly touch on New Year's reflections and resolutions, setting a relaxed and conversational tone. They humorously transition from discussing shopping for yoga pants and sports bras to the main focus of the episode: the "Sexual Harassment" episode of "The Office."

---

Meeting Todd Packer for the First Time

One of the central topics of the episode is the introduction of Todd Packer, a character previously known only by his voice, now appearing in person for the first time, portrayed by Dave Koechner.

Angela Kinsey shares an insightful look into Todd Packer's character development:

“Packer is taller than average, larger than life, an irresistibly colorful alpha male bully” (03:32).

This detailed stage direction highlights Todd Packer's dynamic presence in the office, setting him up as both a source of humor and tension.

Jenna Fischer praises BJ Novak’s contribution to the character’s depth:

“BJ is so smart. He's able to walk that line so well. I think this was the perfect coupling to do” (09:35).

---

Character Insights and Fan Reactions

Angela reveals that while rereading the shooting drafts, she discovered valuable character descriptions that had never been shared before, enhancing their understanding of Todd Packer. They also discuss fan-submitted moments, such as Pam’s sassy retort to Todd, which showcases her growing assertiveness:

“That's some Pam sass” (04:53).

Additionally, they address the elusive "goat sound" in a scene outside the warehouse, confirming that they indeed heard it upon revisiting the episode:

“I heard it” (05:17).

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Behind the Scenes: Deleted Scenes and Runners

Jenna shares that shooting deleted scenes often leads to funny outtakes. A notable example is Michael’s extended rant against Toby, captured as a stream of consciousness, which was later included in the superfan episode:

“These were all Rayn's improvisations” (50:25).

They encourage listeners to check out these extra snippets for additional laughs and insights.

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Creating the Character of Todd Packer

Angela recounts her first attempt to record a conversation with Dave Koechner about Todd Packer, which humorously failed to capture audio. Despite this, she gathered valuable tidbits about Dave’s portrayal of Packer:

“Dave and Packer just come in and blow up your world and then kaboom” (25:56).

Jenna Fischer elaborates on the casting process, emphasizing Steve Carell’s role in advocating for Dave:

“Steve was really excited. He is actually the one who pitched Dave to Greg for Todd Packer” (15:09).

This collaboration highlights the chemistry between the actors and the thoughtful casting decisions behind the show.

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Casting Challenges and On-Set Stories

Angela shares a humorous anecdote about her time in the light booth during an improv show with the "Beer Shark Mice," leading to an unexpected and memorable backstage moment involving a giant tire:

“Dave gets this giant tire, and he rolls it across the stage into the audience, and he's like, that's our show, you guys” (18:07).

Jenna Fischer relates this to the dynamic energy Todd Packer brings to the office, making his scenes both chaotic and entertaining.

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Musical and Cultural References

The hosts discuss the origins of popular jokes used in the episode, such as:

• "That's what she said": Clarifying that this joke wasn't original to "The Office" but was revived from older comedic sources.
• William Hung Reference: They explain the topical nature of Ryan’s joke about William Hung, a viral "American Idol" contestant known for his earnest but off-key performances:

“William Hung was an old American Idol reference. He gave a horrible yet very committed rendition of Ricky Martin's She Bangs” (31:37).

These references showcase the show's ability to weave contemporary humor into its narrative seamlessly.

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Analyzing Specific Scenes and Themes

Sexual Harassment Training Seminar: The central plot revolves around Michael’s handling of a sexual harassment training seminar after an upper-level manager is let go. The seminar is fraught with Michael’s ineptitude and Todd Packer’s inappropriate behavior, creating a mix of cringe-worthy and humorous moments.

Phyllis’s Emotional Moment: A poignant scene where Michael stands up for Phyllis after Todd's insensitive joke about a nymphomaniac convention:

“Phyllis her look to Michael when he said it was hilarious” (12:39).

This moment highlights Michael’s ability to confront inappropriate behavior, signaling a potential growth in his character.

Blow-Up Doll Comedy: The selection of the right blow-up doll for Michael’s seminar leads to humorous deliberations among the crew:

“We had to decide if she should be wearing underwear or a bikini” (46:39).

This meticulous attention to props underscores the show's commitment to enhancing comedic effect through visual elements.

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Behind-the-Scenes Challenges: Recording and Improvisations

Angela shares a failed attempt to record a meaningful conversation with Dave Koechner, leading to reliance on note-taking:

“I have 30 minutes of me filming my screen with no sound” (14:03).

Despite technical hiccups, the conversation provided valuable insights into Todd Packer's character and Dave's portrayal.

They also discuss improvisational moments, such as Michael’s extended rants, which were often improvised beyond the scripted lines, adding depth and spontaneity to the scenes.

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Recasting Pam’s Mom

The podcast addresses the confusion around Pam’s mom being portrayed by two different actresses. Jenna explains that Shannon Cochran was originally cast but had to be recast due to her theater commitments:

“There was this rule for a very long time that we couldn't do anything. Stunt casting” (57:38).

This adherence to casting integrity ensured consistency in character portrayal, despite logistical challenges.

Angela Kinsey shares a heartwarming moment involving Jim's awkward interaction with Pam’s mom:

“He gets up the courage and he walks over right as Roy walks in, and he just quickly takes, like, a piece of candy and goes back to his desk” (61:42).

This scene emphasizes Jim’s subtle yet effective comedic skills in conveying his character’s emotions.

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Final Thoughts and Character Development

The hosts reflect on Michael’s subtle growth moments, such as standing up to Todd Packer, which hint at his evolving character:

“This is that moment once again where our writers trying to give Michael a little bit of a growth moment” (56:30).

They also discuss the nuanced interactions between Dwight and Toby, highlighting their characters' complexities and the show's ability to blend humor with character-driven narratives.

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Notable Quotes and Insights

Throughout the episode, several memorable quotes provide deeper insights into characters and themes:

• Angela Kinsey (03:32):

  “Packer is taller than average, larger than life, an irresistibly colorful alpha male bully.”

• Jenna Fischer (09:35):

  “BJ is so smart. He's able to walk that line so well. I think this was the perfect coupling to do.”

• Jenna Fischer (43:14):

  “That's what she did.”

• Angela Kinsey (55:48):

  “A boner. And then Phyllis’s reaction is what made it for me. It made that whole scene.”

These quotes encapsulate the hosts' perspectives and the episode's key moments.

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Conclusion

"Second Drink: Sexual Harassment" provides a comprehensive and engaging exploration of "The Office" episode, blending character analysis with behind-the-scenes stories. Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey's chemistry shines as they reminisce about their experiences, uncover hidden details, and offer fresh perspectives on beloved characters and moments. Their ability to balance humor with insightful commentary makes this episode a must-listen for both long-time fans and newcomers eager to understand the intricacies of "The Office."

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Notable Quotes:

• Angela Kinsey (03:32): “Packer is taller than average, larger than life, an irresistibly colorful alpha male bully.”
• Jenna Fischer (09:35): “BJ is so smart. He's able to walk that line so well. I think this was the perfect coupling to do.”
• Angela Kinsey (55:48): “A boner. And then Phyllis’s reaction is what made it for me. It made that whole scene.”
• Jenna Fischer (43:14): “That's what she did.”

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Note: The timestamps correspond to moments within the transcript provided and are included to reference specific discussions and quotes mentioned by the hosts.

Transcript

[Jenna Fischer]

As we close out the year, we can all take a moment to reflect on all we've accomplished this year and maybe set some goals for the next year.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, the New Year is always an opportunity to commit to learning something new. And I think a great way to do that is to kick off 2025 by learning a new language.

[Jenna Fischer]

Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program available on desktop or as an app. It really immerses you in the language that you want to learn.

[Angela Kinsey]

They have 25 languages, Spanish, French, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, Arabic, Polish, to name a few. And they have an intuitive process that helps you pick up a language naturally, first with words, then phrases, then sentences. That always really helps me to start that way.

[Jenna Fischer]

Start the New year off with a resolution you can reach today. Office Ladies listeners can take advantage of this New year special of Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership. Visit rosettastone.com officeladies that's unlimited access to.

[Angela Kinsey]

25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your New year's [e-mail] OfficeLadies today.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is the New year and I have a question for you. Okay. Did you make any resolutions that you might need to purchase items for? For example, did you think I'm going to do yoga three times a week? But you know what? I could really use some yoga pants.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what? I just made a New Year's resolution. I love playing tennis and I want to try to be better at it. But you know what I need? Maybe a tmi. I need some sports bras.

[Jenna Fischer]

Guess what? I'm gonna send you over to Macy's.com because they are having their after Christmas sale from December 25th all the way to January 1st.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love a sale.

[Jenna Fischer]

Set yourself up for success in 2025. Buy some activewear to help you feel good while you keep your resolutions. I know I am personally more likely to keep up with my fitness goals when I've got something cute on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you need the gear.

[Jenna Fischer]

You need the gear.

[Angela Kinsey]

Shop the Macy's After Christmas sale from December 25th through January 1st.

[Jenna Fischer]

Head to Macy's.com or visit your local Macy's store.

[Angela Kinsey]

Happy holidays everyone. It's almost New Year's. Maybe as you're listening to this you're running some last minute errands. Maybe your in laws or some random cousins are on the way over. Maybe you need a break from it all.

[Jenna Fischer]

Welcome to second Drink, your little escape from the holiday frenzy. This week it is sexual harassment and in this episode we meet Todd Packer for the first time. Now, we had heard his voice on the phone, but this is the first time we meet him. And we talk all about the character of Todd Packer, and Dave Kec shares his memories with us. But, Angela, you said you found something that we missed.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did. You know, I've been going back and rereading the shooting drafts, and lady, we never shared what the stage directions said about Todd Packer. There is a fantastic character description. I want you to hear it. Here's how it. Interior, office, reception area. The door flies open. Pam turns hopefully. Nope, it's Todd Packer striding in like he owns it. Packer is taller than average, larger than life, an irresistibly colorful alpha male bully. Much more fun to watch than to suffer through. Isn't that a great description?

[Jenna Fischer]

That is a really good description.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then, you know, there's that hilarious talking head that Michael has. It's in the episode where he says that Todd Packer and I are like BFFs. And right after it, there was more stage direction about how Michael would act around Todd Packer. I thought it was really funny. Here's what it said. Cut to Michael. Michael is adoring, worshipful, like talking about a gorgeous woman who also saved his life and taught him to ride a bike.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that is BJ Novak for you. He writes the best descriptions. I mean, he's the one that wrote in Diversity Day that when Pam falls asle on Jim's shoulder, it's as if a butterfly had landed on his shoulder.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's how Jim feels that moment.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that's some good BJ stage direction right there, Jenna. We also got some fan mail, and apparently I missed a really good Pam sass moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes. This was right when you were picking up on all the sass.

[Angela Kinsey]

All the sass. So, you know, Todd Packer's talking and he gestures towards Ryan and he says, don't let this little bitch drive you around town. We got lost for, like, half an hour. And then Pam says, I don't have any DUIs, so I can drive myself, but thanks.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I have to agree.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's some Pam sass.

[Jenna Fischer]

Good Pam sass. Well, we also got a letter. A lot of people wrote in to ask if we heard the goat sound. There's this scene outside the warehouse where the guys are heckling Michael. Listen, I don't hear the goat. Do you hear it? Let's play it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't hear it the first time, but then I went back and I Heard it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, let's listen. Oh, okay. That one's still about me. Hey, hey, hey. So you don't have the biggest package. Don't feel bad. I don't feel bad. I don't think he feels bad. No, I don't.

[Angela Kinsey]

You look like you feel bad.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. You know, not exactly what I was looking for, but. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

You look like it from his mama, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, oh, there, I heard it. I heard it. Cause I think I wasn't watching it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is that? Is one of the guys making that sound.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's one of the office workers. I know that. Cause my brother always does that. From this episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh, Sam.

[Angela Kinsey]

No way.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, it's funny. I could hear a horn honk in the background. So I'm like listening so intently and then, yes, there it was.

[Angela Kinsey]

So clearly a goat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, finally, when we broke down this episode, I shared that there was a very funny runner in deleted scenes where Michael is just going off on Toby. Just like it goes on and on and on. This runner of him just.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's sitting at his desk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it's like every crappy thing he's thought about Toby is just coming out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like stream of consciousness. They have been added to the end of the superfan episode for sexual harassment. It's really fun. I think we should hear them. And we have your stupid rules to blame. Toby. Toby actually gets alimony from his ex wife because she makes more. So that's kind of embarrassing. Not that I'd mind, but it would never happen to me because I would make the marriage work. People seem to like him because they think he's one of us, but he's not. He's this weird loner who just tells people, don't do this, don't do that. Hire this person for this reason. I would complain about him, but who would I go to to complain about Toby? Toby Bias. And what does he do about that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Nothing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he's Toby. What kind of name is that? It's almost a girl's name. I think I've known more girls named Toby than guys. He just kind of makes my skin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Crawl a little bit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Toby is the devil. Toby's the devil.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love Michael hating Toby.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love it so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

So much. Well, we will see you next Monday for second drink of office Olympics. And then next Wednesday, January 8th, we are back for our episode is Toby.

[Jenna Fischer]

The Scranton Strangler with special guest Paul Lieberstein. And now here is sexual harassment.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Ladies. Welcome to the Office ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Welcome, everybody.

[Jenna Fischer]

Today we're talking about the episode Sexual Harassment.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, it's a doozy.

[Jenna Fischer]

And if you're listening with your kids, we're gonna try to keep it clean, folks. Yeah, maybe you want to pre screen this one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I mean, the subject matter alone.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Well, they had to walk a line when they were writing and making this episode. And we're gonna walk a line today talking about it. Angela, I see you're eating a Pop Tart.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, I am. It's a brown sugar pop Tart.

[Jenna Fischer]

Brown sugar. I didn't know cinnamon or brown sugar. It has some brown icing on it. This is.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it's the cinnamon brown sugar pop Tart. Am I right, guys in the booth? Yeah, it's the cinnamon brown sugar pop Tart.

[Jenna Fischer]

This has been a sticking point in my friendship with Angela for a long time, which is that she can eat things like Pop Tarts, donuts, pancakes for breakfast.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is a bad time for me to tell you. I also had two muffins before the Pop Tart.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. It is. All right, guys, Today is Sexual Harassment, Season 2, Episode 2. This was written by BJ Novak and directed by Ken Kwapis. You've probably heard those names before. I want to point out in my first fast fact that BJ Novak wrote Diversity Day and Ken Kwapus directed it.

[Angela Kinsey]

So they already had a little bit of a great back and forth.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. They are paired together again. I guess Greg assigned BJ the script of Sexual Harassment because of the good job he had done on Diversity Day on touchy subjects. Yes. Oh, well. And. And then Ken was asked to direct it. I think it makes sense. Ken Kwapas is such a gentleman. BJ is so smart. He's able to walk that line so well. I think this was the perfect coupling to do. I do too bring this episode to life. Here's a quick summary for this episode. When an upper level manager is let go because of sexual harassment, corporate requires in the company to undergo sexual harassment training. Michael's crude friend Todd Packer comes into the office and starts harassing everyone. Kind of a twofer there.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go. And years later, we would have our own seminars that NBC would have us attend. We've talked about this. And they would use clips from this episode of what not to do at.

[Jenna Fischer]

Work and other episodes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And other episodes. We're like, oh, hey, it's us again. Oh, yeah. No one should be doing that. Okay. Okay, good.

[Jenna Fischer]

And also, you know, after reading the scripts, the network originally wanted to air Sexual Harassment as our season premiere for season two. I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Probably. Probably good that we eased into that one.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. Because this brings me to my second fast fact, which is that this episode originally aired with a warning.

[Angela Kinsey]

It did, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is very unusual for network television.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I didn't know that it aired.

[Jenna Fischer]

With a warning before the episode. That said, this episode contains adult content and subject matter.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you know why? All right, parents, this is where you're gonna wanna start.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe. Maybe mute us on earmuffs. Earmuffs on the kids.

[Jenna Fischer]

It all came down to the word boner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. With Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

With Phyllis. The scene with Phyllis at the end when Steve says something like, no, I'm just afraid I'll get a boner. The network wanted to change it to I am afraid I'll get a schwing. And they BJ and Wayne's World.

[Angela Kinsey]

NBC is like, let's make it Wayne's World.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's make it a schwing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm afraid I'll get a schwing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And BJ fought to keep Boner in the episode. The warning was their way of having a compromise. We were surprised that clitoris made it in the episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, there's a whole runner with a blow up doll, I think.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pam's supposed to kiss a blow up doll. There's, to me, many red flags here. A lot of stuff happening, but they got. They got stuck on Boner.

[Jenna Fischer]

They got stuck on boner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, sorry, there's too many. That's what she says in this episode. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

That could be a drinking game for this episode. Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

We don't condone that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mature.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

But even still, even with the warning, there was one network in Kentucky that refused to air this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, really?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So we.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sorry, Kentucky.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got pulled off the air.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can watch it on Netflix right now. Yeah, folks in Kentucky, that is so funny to me because the word boner, sorry to go back there, is so funny. Phyllis's reaction to the word boner.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. It wouldn't be the same if it was swing.

[Angela Kinsey]

It wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be the same. And for me, what made that moment funny was Phyllis her look to Michael when he said it was hilarious. So. Okay, moving on.

[Jenna Fischer]

We can talk more about that scene later in the episode. We can? Really. I have a lot to say about that scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, gosh. More. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

My third fast fact is that we get to meet Todd Packer. Finally, the Todd Packer in the flesh comes into the office, played by Dave Koechner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. So I have known Dave Koechner. Oh, my gosh, maybe 16 years. I've known him a really long time. We met back at Improv Olympic. He had taken Second City in Chicago, and he knew Steve from Second City and Nancy. Steve's wife Nancy. I called Dave last night, and I was like, dave, we're going to do sexual harassment. And he was like, do you have people come in the booth? I was like, we do. Dave. Can you come in tomorrow? And he's like, nah, I'm working. I was like, okay. And then I said, oh, Dave, can I record our conversation? He was like, yeah, sure. Tell me when you're ready to go. Oh, this is great. Yes, it's great. So I did the swipe up on my iPhone. You know where your flashlight is?

[Jenna Fischer]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, underneath, like, by your flashlight.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. My phone.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. There's a little record button.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I hit the record button, and I was like, let's do this.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm feeling like this isn't going where we're hoping.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Dave and I talked for half an hour.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have 30 minutes of me filming my screen with no sound.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. It's a record button. How was I supposed to know it doesn't record sound?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know where to begin with this one because I'm 100 years old. Well, it's just that that's sort of like when my mom wrote me my first email.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

She called me on the phone and said, why haven't you responded to my email that I sent you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I said, well, I never got your email. What email address did you send it to? And she said, I sent it to you. I sent it to Jenna. And I said, I don't understand. And she said, I opened the email box and it said to. And I wrote Jenna. She just sent an email to Jenna. That is very similar to what you've done here with the record button on your phone. A little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on now.

[Jenna Fischer]

A little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait a minute.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's kind of.

[Angela Kinsey]

Anyway, whatever, guys, the long story short, here is, Dave, thank you so much for talking to me last night for half an hour. And I wrote down everything we talked About. Because it didn't record.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do have a gazillion note cards today.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have.

[Jenna Fischer]

Angela had to move seats because she has so many note cards.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have so many note cards. I have lots of little fun tidbits from Dave, but I'll save those as we go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, that's great. Something I'd like to expand on is what you were saying about Steve Carell starting at Second City in Chicago. I think a lot of people don't realize the long journey that a lot of us took before we landed on the Office. And in particular, Steve Carell, he was doing comedy in Chicago on Second City for a very, very long time. And then he and his wife, Nancy, they moved to New York City because she had an audition for Saturday Night.

[Angela Kinsey]

Live and she got it.

[Jenna Fischer]

She did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Her and Dave were on Saturday Night Live together. So they had known each other for a really long time and journeyed through quite a bit. And Steve was really excited. He is actually the one who pitched Dave to Greg for Todd Packer. He was really like, you gotta cast Dave Koechner. They had just done Anchorman together, and he just knew that they'd be off to the races and it'd be so much fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

And their dynamic in Anchorman was amazing. Their chemistry there was amazing, but it makes sense because they had been schlepping through Chicago to New York to LA together, doing comedy for close to 15 years.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. They'd known each other for so long.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you were in those circles, Angela. I never got into that. I never did the comedy, improv, sketch comedy thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I had met Dave years ago at Improv Olympic out here in Los Angeles. It was called iowest, and he was part of a phenomenal improv show called Beer Shark Mice. These guys were amazing. They were like, the best of the best. It would sell out. It would be standing room only. They were amazing. It was Mike Coleman, Pat Finn, Neil Flynn, and Pete Holney, Dave Koechner, and then also Paul Valencourt. They were just phenomenal.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow, what a show.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was great. So, like, listen, if you're an improv nerd out there, these guys are the best of the best. I was working in the light booth. I was in charge of calling their lights, and I was really intimidated because the person in the light booth makes it fade to black when you feel that the show has wrapped up. So what?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's kind of on you to decide.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's on me. And here I am like.

[Jenna Fischer]

You're like the person lowering the curtain at the End of the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And I'm just like, a newbie at the theater. Like, I'm like, really? You're gonna trust me? Was there no one else? And so I was calling lights, and I really felt like the show wrapped up, and it was about 30 minutes, and I pulled it to black, and they were like, what? And then afterwards, Dave and everyone was like, ange, we had a whole another round to go. You called the lights way too soon. And I was like, I am so sorry. I'm so sorry. I felt so horrible. All right, so it's the next week, and Dave comes up to me and says, ange, let us go about 45 minutes tonight. I'm like, okay, Dave. Got it. Set my timer.

[Jenna Fischer]

You set a timer? I love that I set a timer. That's very Jenna of you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't want to get it wrong. So anyway, I'm up in the light booth at 39 minutes. I thought they had their out. Jenna. Okay, I did not pull lights.

[Jenna Fischer]

You did.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no. And then they went to 45 minutes, and then it was almost an hour.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't want to pull the lights. I didn't. I was too nervous. I don't know. I froze.

[Jenna Fischer]

They're probably just out there just flailing on stage.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was getting awkward. And Dave walks backstage, and someone had left, I don't know, a spare tire to, like, a truck or a Jeep. It was enormous. So Dave gets this giant tire, and he rolls it across the stage into the audience, and he's like, that's our show, you guys. And I was like, oh, crap.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, did you. When the tire went across the stage, did you finally go to Black Age?

[Angela Kinsey]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so you got his signal.

[Angela Kinsey]

I got it. I got it. Dave, the tire. I got it. And I went backstage, and I was like, you guys? And we all started cracking up. And they still talk about it. They still talk about the tire. Anyway, I just love those guys so much. And believe it or not, I did call lights for them a few more times until they got their official person. But that is how I met Dave Koechner.

[Jenna Fischer]

Didn't Greg Daniels go to a few of those shows? I mean, maybe not Dave's in particular, but.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no. Greg loved supporting, like, small improv theaters, and a lot of improvisers ended up on our show. So I know Rainn Wilson would make fun of me, but I'd be like, oh, you know, whoever actor is showing up. I did a Sunday show with him, and he'd be like, did you do in private, Amanda? Like. Yes, Rain.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Rain and I were the two classically trained theater actors.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, don't we know it. Oh, don't we know it. I heard quite a bit about it, yeah. All right, before things take a turn here, maybe we should go to a break.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, let's go to a break. The holidays are all about sharing with family. Meals, couches, stories, Grandma's secret pecan pie recipe. And now you can also share a cart. With Instacart's family carts, everyone can add what they want to one group cart from wherever they are. So you don't have to go from room to room to find out who wants cranberry sauce or who should get mini marshmallows for the yams or collecting votes for sugar cookies. Versus short. Just share a cart and then share the meals and the moments. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus, enjoy free delivery on your first three orders. Service fees and terms apply. What is Dax?

[Angela Kinsey]

Are you tracking all our cars on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Carvana Value Tracker on all our devices? Yes, Kristen. Yes, I am. Well, I've been looking for my phone for. In Dax's domain, we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth. All of them? All of them. Value surge trucks up 3.9%. That's a great offer.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Sell. Sell. Track your car's value with Carvana Value tracker Today. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 + to use Gemini live. And we're back talking about the sexual harassment episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here we go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here we go. Buckle in, everyone. As they say in rewatching this episode, Angela, I was very uncomfortable. Yeah, I was more squirmy during this than Diversity Day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know. They're both equally squirmy for me.

[Jenna Fischer]

But then I was squirmy during Hot Girl. I. I think that I had forgotten how really cringy and uncomfortable the show can get sometimes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, we pushed it. We pushed it to the line and then went over the line.

[Jenna Fischer]

How did this show get on the air? I mean, I know this particular episode got on with a warning but in general, what was going on?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. I mean, you know, I grew up overseas and I grew up with a lot of British television and they definitely pushed the line. And I think the show was in the spirit of the BBC version. And I don't know, I think, like some of the cringy moments that you end up laughing. I don't know. I love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know that Kevin Reilly, who was at NBC at the time, was a huge champion for our show. I really credit him with us sticking around. He believed in us and there were a lot of people there who didn't get it and who didn't think that this was a good idea.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, it's true. He fought for us. And when we finally won an Emmy for Best Comedy Ensemble, we all went backstage for photos and the guys, the cast picked up Kevin Reilly up in the air and that's the photo that was in the LA Times, because we all knew that he put his neck on the line for us. And I mean, I'll always be grateful for, to Kevin for that.

[Jenna Fischer]

The episode begins with Michael walking up to Jim's desk to see if he has received his hilarious email forward. Michael has a talking head where he declares himself the king of forwards.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he says, that's how I like to do business.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a funny story about a behind the scenes moment that happened on set while we were filming a big group scene in the bullpen, talking about these email forwards.

[Jenna Fischer]

And was I there?

[Angela Kinsey]

You were there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, remind me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Everyone was there. Everyone was there. Kelly was there. Still with an updo. When is the episode where Kelly becomes Mindy?

[Jenna Fischer]

Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's what we need to look for. No. So this is an episode that John Krasinski and I will never forget because he about fell out of his chair at 9 minutes, 16 seconds. We're talking about the email forwards and Michael's really upset that they want him to stop doing this. And I say, I hate them. You send me these filthy emails and you say, Forward them to 10 people or you'll have bad luck. Right, that's my line. So we had been working on this scene for a while and then we went to lunch and we came back.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's always so hard to pick up a scene with lunch in between.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And I think it was like around 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ooh, everyone's real off at that time.

[Angela Kinsey]

Everyone's a little tired. People are a little bit more punchy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we're in a big group scene. So here's the thing you should know about me, I was born in Louisiana. My family's from Texas and Louisiana. I have a really, really hard time saying a vowel in front of an L. And two times in my career on the Office, they almost dropped a line because I could not say it. One time they actually did. I'll save that story for later. It was between Andy Bernard and myself. I couldn't say the line. I just kept sounding like such a hillbilly that they just dropped the line. But this line, I said, I hate them. You send me these filthy emails. And John about fell out of his chair and he went, the south has arrived. And I was like, what? What? I didn't even hear it. He was like, angela. And like eight of you turned and looked at me and at the same time, you were like, you said, feelthy, feelthy. And I said, how do you say it? And you're like, filthy. And I had to, like, really concentrate. Filthy, filthy. Because I automatically want to say filthy, filthy. But somewhere there's footage of me saying, you send me these filthy emails. And John lost it.

[Jenna Fischer]

You and John had a great relationship on the show. You guys were big brother, kid sister, and it was so sweet. I loved your banter and I loved just. I don't know, you guys were really cute. You would tease one another.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. He felt like my big brother, even though he's, like, younger than me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

But he did. He felt like my big brother that I teased and he loved it. When I slipped into Southern drawl, he'd be like, hello. He loved it.

[Jenna Fischer]

So next up, Todd Packer comes in the office and, boy, does Dave Koechner own a room when he enters that room.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Dave told me last night on the phone, he said, todd Packer just comes in and blows up your world and then kaboom. Leaves no consequences.

[Jenna Fischer]

MIC DROPS yeah, see you later.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then he's out. I have a little tidbit about Dave.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, tell me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so Dave told me he actually auditioned for Michael Scott.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. He had known Greg Daniels for years. He had done a pilot for one of Greg's writers on King of the Hill. So he knew Greg for a long time and they brought him in for Michael Scott and he said, ang, I was obsessed with the BBC version and all I had in my head was Ricky Gervais.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's.

[Angela Kinsey]

I couldn't do it any other way.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he was doing a little bit of an impersonation of Ricky.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And I think a lot of people did that, that came in, but Steve had not seen it, and I think that really helped him kind of make his own person.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

But he told me when they brought him in for Todd Packer, he was so excited because, yes, it was based on Finchy. Right. In the BBC ver.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. So in the BBC version, David Brent has a friend named Chris Finch and they call him Finchy and he is the Todd Packer of the British show. Basically, it's just this one sided best friendship. And if you can believe Chris Finch is worse than Todd Packer, if you watch the British show, you think it can't get worse than Todd Packer. If you're looking for that, check out the British version.

[Angela Kinsey]

Exactly. Dave said that he was so excited to come in for Todd Packer because they were just like, dave, do whatever. And he just was like, oh, I got this. I got this. Him and Steve had just done Anchorman as we talked about, so he knew it was just gonna be playtime. I asked Dave, I was like, what is something you remember about that first day as Todd Packer? And he said, I remember the writing. I remember reading that script and thinking how fantastic it was. And I thought, when you have writing this good, anything is possible. I can go anywhere because what I have is so solid. And I said, did you improvise any of that? He said, honestly, I can't remember because I remember thinking the writing was so good. He said, if you see things that feel spontaneous. He said, the physicality of Todd Packer is very me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is him. You know, like all the stuff he does with Michael, the physical stuff, that's just Dave bringing life to Todd Packer. But he really just was just blown away by how good the writing was.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember when he came in, I was legitimately shocked and stunned.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, our show had been very quiet.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, right. Oh, right. He's just a burst of energy.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he was so loud. And so a lot of my reactions to him are real. They're like, what? Why are we. Why are we shouting?

[Angela Kinsey]

What is happening?

[Jenna Fischer]

This thing is a lot. This is so. Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because I'm 75. I'm Jenna Fisher. Why are you being so loud? I asked Dave because Michael has a line where he says that Todd Packer is his bff Best Friend Forever.

[Jenna Fischer]

I saw that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And I said, dave, how does Michael, like, how is he best friends with Todd Packer? He said something I thought was so sweet, actually, and just insightful into Michael. He said, oh, Angela. He said, michael is so innocent and naive. He's almost childlike. He doesn't get a lot of what Todd Packer is and how.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's such a good observation.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, he's like a little brother looking up to someone, and maybe somewhere down the road he'll see. How inappropriate. But he's just in this childlike enamored phase.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I love that Dave Koechner.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, now it's time to talk about that famous Jim Talking head with the phrase, what has two thumbs and hates Todd Packer? This guy. All right, that joke of, like, what has two thumbs and likes blank? And also the very famous line from this episode. That's what she said. Those are not original jokes. We did not make those up. BJ Novak did not write them. BJ said those are things that he just heard in college as a college student, and he kind of dusted them off and brought them back to this episode, and then they took off. I mean, especially. That's what she said.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, well, that makes sense, because Todd Packer is sort of like a bratty frat guy, right?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Yes. And that's what she said. Had actually been on snl. Chevy Chase had a bit where he said it. It was in Wayne's World. But the origin of that joke is a British joke. But the phrase isn't. That's what she said.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

The phrase is, as the actress said to the bishop, did you like mine?

[Angela Kinsey]

So that just rolls off the tongue?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, but it dwindled in popularity. It was kind of no longer in use until Ricky Gervais brought it back. He used to start saying it. He used to say, as the actress said to the bishop, but it never quite was the same as that's what she said.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, this is really off topic, but, you know, I'm gonna have a she shed for myself. I'm making a home office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I do. It's all you talk about.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, I know. I'm, like, constantly online and on Pinterest looking at little sheds that I can make into a home office. And I've started the process, but I posted a photo of me with a shed, and a fan wrote in. Please call your shed your. That's what she shed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, you have to.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Someone start needle pointing a pillow right now. Oh, my gosh. I'll do it. I like to needlepoint.

[Angela Kinsey]

Will you needlepoint me? That's what she shed. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what she shed.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, a hundred percent. Here's another cultural reference from this episode, when Ryan takes Todd Packer down to the parking lot to drive him somewhere because of his DUIs, he has a WL hum. Oh, yes, right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I have this on a card which.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of course, Tod wants everyone to think says, well, Hung. But Ryan says, oh, are you a big fan of William Hung? Do the millennials out there know who William Hung is? Do they get this joke, I wonder. Cause this was a very, like, topical.

[Angela Kinsey]

Of the time kind of joke.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. So William Hung was an old American Idol reference. He was a contestant, and he gave this horrible yet very committed rendition of Ricky Martin's She Bangs.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Season three. And, like, the judges could barely hold it together. Bless his heart.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was so pure, so honest. He was like an engineering student.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

His secret passion in life was this thing. Well, this. This was before social media. And yet this went, quote, unquote, viral, this video of him auditioning. And he became a huge sensation. He went on tour.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I think he did like, a version of, like, a TED Talk about success. But you can still find it. Cause I watched it last night.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

William Hung.

[Jenna Fischer]

I had to look it up because when I watched this episode, it brought up the memory of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, can we just mention that Todd Packer drives a red convertible Corvette? I mean, buddy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. I think it was supposed to be a Mustang, and they couldn't get one, and so it got changed to a Corvette.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it's perfect.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is pretty perfect. Also, in this episode, we learned that Pam's mom is coming into the office, and little Pam just keeps sneaking looks at the door.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so cute. Pam loves her mom.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is gonna seem like I'm being snarky to Pam's mom. Hear me out.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, well, I'm already feeling defensive.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay?

[Jenna Fischer]

Pam loves her mom.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pam's mom says, oh, is this your area? I'm like, what, has she never been to the office in three years? Three years you've been working at Dunder Mifflin. Your mom's never stopped by.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's make me sad.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I'm just saying, I just had a moment. I'm like, why is she so surprised to see Pam's death?

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow, you are angry. That's a really good point. I mean, she lives in town.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a bunch of timecode things, too.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, timecode us, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, at five minutes, 15 seconds, you guys, there is a fantastic shot of Michael's desk when he's talking to Toby. And I'll tell you what, all you see on his desk, you see a mini billiards table.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

You see, like, the silver ball clacky thingy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Whoever wants that on their desk.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

What is that? I've always wondered.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's probably some kind of Zen thing, I guess. Jenna, you see his Dundee?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's a great shot of his Dundee. And then what looks like is a green Magic 8 ball. And in this scene, at the top of the scene, Michael is holding a giant pencil in his hand.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that little guy loves a Spencer's Gifts.

[Angela Kinsey]

He loves a Spencer's Gifts.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's his favorite store.

[Angela Kinsey]

But can you imagine? Toby, like, wants to have a serious conversation with him and Michael is holding an oversized pencil throughout the conversation. Yes. So that I thought was just a great, great screen grab if you wanna see all the things on Michael's desk.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, Ange, what's next?

[Angela Kinsey]

I have another Dave Koechner story.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, great. Is this another one of the stories you didn't record on your phone last night?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, Jenna, it is. All right, thank you very much.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's hear it.

[Angela Kinsey]

When Dave got the call that they wanted him to come in for Todd Packer, guess where he was.

[Jenna Fischer]

Where?

[Angela Kinsey]

He was in Canada filming Snakes on a plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

No. Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

That just made me laugh. He was like, yeah, I got the call. I was filming snakes on a plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I do know that they had to really manipulate the schedule in order to make it work with him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Because he was filming snakes on a plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. We got him for one day. We had to film all of the Todd Packer stuff in one day so.

[Angela Kinsey]

He could then go back to Canada and be in Snakes on a Plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

One of my favorite scenes in this episode, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is when I have two. They both involve Toby.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. The first is when Toby reveals he has to do a review of the sexual harassment policy. One thing I noticed was I felt like Toby was super excited that he was gonna get to run something for a change and that Michael had no choice. I don't know. I just watched the scene a couple times, and I felt like I could see this little, like, happy glint in Paul's eye as he was explaining to Michael that he was going to do this period. But I also noticed that Toby's presentation happens in the bullpen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

It does not happen in the conference room. And if I remember correctly, it is because we decided that Michael would allow him to have his presentation, but not in the conference room, not in this space, under no circumstances. Maybe I just made that up in my own head. Maybe it's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

The other thing that was interesting to Me that we'd never seen before is Toby does a talking head in front of the vending machine in the break room.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that is not where our talking heads ever are. They're always in the conference room.

[Jenna Fischer]

Toby is clearly, ever since he got thrown out of the conference room, has not been invited back into the conference room. I watched the deleted scenes for this and there is a runner of Michael talking heads where he's just talking about how much he hates Toby in different ways. Oh, my gosh, it's so good. I have to say for anybody out there who is wishing there was more office or wishing you could watch more of the office, you actually can. It is the deleted scenes. I have been enjoying them so much. So really look for them because just these runner of talking heads from Michael were wonderful.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I saw some that were pretty amazing. And I wonder out there if they're. The webisodes are available.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah. You guys won an Emmy award for your webisodes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, we won an Emmy award.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember that.

[Angela Kinsey]

For the accountants.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I really want some more Pop Tart. I have it sitting next to me, but I'm afraid it's going to be really loud.

[Jenna Fischer]

We can take a pop Tart break if you need to. Angela, you want us to take a break so you can have some pop Tart?

[Angela Kinsey]

Is this how you talk to your kids?

[Jenna Fischer]

Baby, you want to have some Pop Tart?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, I want to have Pop Tart.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, guys, we're going to take a break so Angela can have more of her pop Tart.

[Angela Kinsey]

Tell me, can you hear me eating this pop Tart? One second.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, it's gross. Oh, what?

[Angela Kinsey]

It's not gross. It's a pop Tart.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's. No one wants to listen to someone chew and swallow that. That is maybe something she said. All right, we're going to break. This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Get stoked for all the.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Let's drive.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

I'm talking about the five dollar big.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Egg, a hash brown and French toast sticks for five bucks.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Every bite's a big deal.

[Jenna Fischer]

Order Jack's five dollar big deal breakfast meal now. Welcome back, everybody.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, this is totally off topic, but in preparing for this episode, I like to go back and look at some of the old photos that I have and sort of, it helps me remember things, you know, as you know, I'm a hoarder. I have multiple bins of photos. I found pictures, Jenna, from my first red carpet. It was with you. Oh, I was your plus one.

[Jenna Fischer]

I will never forget this.

[Angela Kinsey]

Uh huh. You know what it was called?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Paws for style. Not paws button, guys. Paws like a dog. Like a P, A W, S. Paws for Style.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. It was a Runway show where celebrities walked a catwalk with their and the dogs were wearing the fashion. So the celebrities were wearing whatever they showed up in and the dogs were dressed in outfits.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was kind of a hot mess.

[Jenna Fischer]

But the money went to the Humane Society.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's why we went. You were invited with your dog?

[Jenna Fischer]

I was invited to bring my dog. Wesley and Angela. This was your first red carpet. We talked in the Dundees episode about how I walked the red carpet for.

[Angela Kinsey]

40 year old virgin and I somehow just didn't do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

You skipped it?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't think it was intentional. I think I just didn't know. I think I just went inside and got my popcorn.

[Jenna Fischer]

But for pause for style, you did walk the red carpet.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I wanted to pick the biggest event possible for my first red carpet. For your coming out, I said, I mean, it's almost like my character. Do you know how many photographers there are? Two. Angela, over here. Angela, over here. It was like art. Like life recreating art or whatever. Was that sing Life intimidating art. Nope. I am tired.

[Jenna Fischer]

I just spit out my coffee. You said life intimidating art.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am tired, you guys. I am so tired. Art imitating life. That's what I'm trying to say. Not life intimidating art. Oh, good lord. Anyway, so here we are at Paws for Style. The big name was Paula Abdul with.

[Jenna Fischer]

Her two or three dogs.

[Angela Kinsey]

She had, like, three little dogs in outfits.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember meeting her out by the red carpet. I remember Wesley and her dogs. They all smelled each other as they do. She was very nice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very nice. I have great photos from this night.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can only imagine.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did my own hair and makeup. This is before I discovered a flat iron. So it's just frizzy, guys. It's just frizzy down and straight. I bought a tank top at Target, and I bought one at the Gap, and I layered them. I layered my tank tops. They're both turquoise. Why did I layer two turquoise tank tops?

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then I bought some white jeans at Target, and this is what I wore.

[Jenna Fischer]

Now I'm gonna say something. You always really do look good in turquoise, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's a great color on you. So I think, in that way, you styled yourself well.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think you can tell because you texted me the photo of you on the red carpet. I think you can tell that. How can I say this? That you'd never done a red carpet? I mean, you look a little bit stiff. How can I say this?

[Angela Kinsey]

I love, like, how delicately you're trying to put this, Jenna. It's like, you know how if you stand and you put your hands on your hip?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

What if you decided to stand but do your legs, like, spread way too far apart?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then instead of putting your hands on your hips and you're 5:1, guys, you're 5:1. You decide to put them on your mid thigh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Kind of like above your.

[Angela Kinsey]

Almost like you're doing a squat.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, and then you smile to camera. That's what I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's what she did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's what I did. Why did I stand like that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Listen, you guys, we didn't know anything about red carpets. We didn't have anyone advising us. Well, do you remember, Angela, after this event, we saw the pictures, and we decided we needed to get better at this. Yeah. And then do you remember that I had read somewhere that the reason that Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen always look so cute on the red carpet is because they say the word prune while the photographers are taking their photograph. The idea is that it makes you look really pouty and sexy. So we decided at our next red carpet that we were gonna say prune.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

The whole time. So it was like, prune, prune, prune.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're the worst photos of me, like, that exist. I think we look.

[Jenna Fischer]

So.

[Angela Kinsey]

I look constipated. It was such a horrible idea.

[Jenna Fischer]

I thought I just looked angry.

[Angela Kinsey]

I look like I need to poop. That's what. I just look miserable.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Angela, I think back on, all of our bright ideas are bright ideas.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it's fair to say these are all your ideas. Why did you go along with them? I don't know. No, I know. You're very persuasive. I don't know. I just was like, okay, I'll walk up and pretend to fake laugh as I walk up to people. Okay. I'll say prune. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. What should we. We should get back to this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, let's do it. Oh, I have a tidbit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Great. What's your tidbit?

[Angela Kinsey]

I think I see John Krasinski about to break at 16 minutes. One second. So Michael cannot say that's what she said anymore.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. He comes out of his office, he makes a grand announcement. He's retiring from comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And he's not gonna say, you know, Jim is like, not even. That's what she said. And he's like, nope.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember filming this scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember filming this too. And Steve as Michael, when he breaks and he goes, that's what she said. His laugh is so huge and giddy and contagious. And he's so happy and pleased with himself that we literally almost started to all laugh ourselves. And you catch it in John for just a second. Really? Yeah. Do you wanna see?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, also, as Steve is leaving and he's being pushed back into his office by Jan and the lawyer, he blows a kiss.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's so happy. But look at John's face at 16 minutes. One second. Sam, can you pull that up? Does that include that's what she said? Mm, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow, that is really hard. You really think you can go all day long? Well, you always left me satisfied and smiling, so. That's what she said. Michael, Michael, please look at John.

[Angela Kinsey]

Look at John. Do you see how he puts his hand in front of his face? That's what he would do when he was starting to laugh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, for sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that. I mean, and that is just Steve. Cause he is a master. He is such a master at, like, any kind of, like, big emotional moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

We've talked about how it's really hard to fake laugh. Yeah, it's harder than fake crying.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Steve is one of the best at the fake laugh.

[Angela Kinsey]

For sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

So we skipped something that I definitely want to go back to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, what?

[Jenna Fischer]

When Michael crashes Toby's presentation and he walks in with the blow up doll.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you remember the days and days of those guys trying to figure out which blow up doll should be the blow up doll?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is a. So it was like, should she have on an outfit? Should she be wearing underwear? Should she be wearing a bikini? They had a variety of blow up dolls. This is a weird thing about working on a television show or in a movie or anything. Are the really just very matter of fact discussions about odd things. I remember seeing our props master and Greg and I think it must have been BJ and Ken Kwappus. But like, there was a group of people looking at different blow up dolls and having a very matter of fact discussion about what is funniest.

[Angela Kinsey]

There was one that had a more open mouth.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember that one. That was it. We nixed that one.

[Angela Kinsey]

That one was so off putting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

But the other thing too is we'd walk on set and, you know, backstage we would have, like, props and things. And I remember walking past like five blow up dolls every morning for like a week. It was like, what is our life?

[Jenna Fischer]

And then Michael has a lot of comedy with that blow up doll. I when we're jumping around here. But when Pam's mom does finally come in and Michael walks out of his office and like chucks it out the door in like a grandiose statement. But also in the scene with Jan, it's hiding up on top of his credenza and Jim has this talking head with the blow up doll. So the blow up doll got a lot of play in this episode. It was very important that we pick the right one. Yeah, a bit of a character.

[Angela Kinsey]

The blow up doll was going to be featured and those conversations were warranted.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, something else I want to mention unrelated to the blow up doll. When Michael takes over the sexual harassment seminar, there is a great deleted scene where Michael goes on this runner. Did you see it? Where he says it's about him and Pam. And I remember shooting the scene and I couldn't get through it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Not the bathtub thing.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, not the bathtub thing. This was a different runner where Michael says, all right, take for example, Pam and I are dating. And I say, that would never happen. He goes, no, it's happening. Pam and I are dating. And I'm like, I'm engaged. She's like, roy died. And I'm like, even still. And he's like, then I would kill you. He's the. Now Roy and Pam are both dead. Look at what sexual harassment summoner got us. I do think a Very funny thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I actually did see that in a montage. That is hilarious.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And then just Michael just like really pushing this like hypothetical situation where he and Pam are dating. And that comes up every once in a while. Every once in a while there's a little thing where Pam has to deal with Michael's hypothetical that there's a world where maybe they're dating.

[Angela Kinsey]

There was clearly a time he had a crush on you.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess so.

[Angela Kinsey]

And finally just gave up.

[Jenna Fischer]

And what about in that same scene Phyllis line where she asks if you have to disclose one night stands?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, they talk about you have to report a relationship to hr. And she goes, all relationships? Even a one night stand?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. What is she. Is she talking about a previous one night stand or a future one night stand?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. But what is John's look to camera as Jim when she says that is so gold. That's classic Jim look to camera.

[Jenna Fischer]

Let's talk about my other favorite Toby scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's that?

[Jenna Fischer]

At the end of Toby's seminar, he says, if you have any questions, you can come speak to me. And Dwight goes to him and they have that big long conversation where Dwight is basically asking about female anatomy and sex.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. It starts around 12 minutes. I have it on a card.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lot of people asked about that scene. Was it scripted, was it improvised? So when Dwight asks where is the clitoris? That is where the scene was supposed to end. So everything after that, those were all Rayn's improvisations. And they shot that scene for about two hours.

[Angela Kinsey]

They shot it for so long. And also Paul, as Toby was improvising as well.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I thought he had such a great line when he was like, well, you know, when you're both more comfortable, you know, he has this great line. And I wrote. Who is Dwight asking the advice for?

[Jenna Fischer]

Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is this the beginning of Dwight and Angela?

[Jenna Fischer]

I wondered the same thing and people pointed this out. Dwight seems very comfortable around women in Hot Girl. He doesn't seem to have any of these hang ups necessarily. And then now suddenly in this episode, he's revealing maybe the truth, which is that he doesn't know so many things about women.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I also think that he might actually have a woman finally who might be interested in doing those things with him, perhaps. And he's realized he doesn't have the skill set for it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ah. Ah. I think that's what it is. Oh, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

This is the first episode where we finally see the real outside of the Dunder Mifflin that we will come to know and love.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, when my goes down to get jokes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. When he goes down to meet the warehouse guys. Well, you see it. We see the parking lot when Ryan takes Todd Packer down. But then you really see him come down through the lobby and outside and around the corner, and he's talking to all the warehouse guys. I thought that was so cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did, too. I thought it was great.

[Jenna Fischer]

So the point of that scene, because I was texting with BJ about this. The point of that scene was that Michael would go down to ask for jokes, and then the guys in the warehouse would actually start sexually harassing Michael.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

So that's the point. They start commenting on his appearance and his pain.

[Angela Kinsey]

His lack of package.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And all that sort of stuff. And yet, somehow, this does not land on Michael. He learns nothing from being the recipient of harassment. It just. He's just frustrated they didn't give him a good joke he could use. But then later, all those same warehouse guys are called up to the conference room, and they have to watch a sexual harassment training video. But did you notice it's all those guys and Kevin?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, why Kevin?

[Angela Kinsey]

Here's what I think. I think Kevin is kind of like that teenage kid who. If he. If there's any chance he might see someone in a bra. Oh, maybe side boob.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, he's. He's in that.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's in that. He's the one that does the MILF joke about your mom. Like, he's kind of like. I feel like the kid who is, like, excited to maybe see anything go down.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think that sexual harassment video is amazing. We shot that. That's not a real sexual harassment video. Joel wrote in and asked, did the actors in the sexual harassment video know they were auditioning for a sitcom, or did they think it was just an educational video?

[Angela Kinsey]

That's an awesome question.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is an awesome question. They knew that they were gonna appear on the Office, but they were told to pretend like they were making a real educational video.

[Angela Kinsey]

They did a phenomenal job. Those guest actors were amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

They were amazing. And we shot that in the actual writers offices.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right. I found it hilarious that when Michael is in the scene with Jan and the corporate lawyer, I feel like this is the first time Michael realizes that he's upper management.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, and he's so proud.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's so proud.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's so proud of himself. Cause he's hired James P. Albini, the guy from the bus stop, to be his lawyer. I love that scene. Actually. That's a really Great scene to watch. If you wanna, like, nerd out on the camera work. And the way that the camera helps tell the story on the office, because that whole entrance of Michael's lawyer, the way Michael's lawyer looks directly at camera and gives a little plug for his business, is pretty great. But the camera work in that scene is really incredible. Also in that scene, Toby, where he's sitting, he's not been invited to sort of in the.

[Angela Kinsey]

In the circle.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he's off against the wall. It's a great scene to watch. Just watch Toby for the whole scene is pretty delicious.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Toby has a great snarky moment in that scene because, you know, Jan's like, michael, are you gonna have to watch the video again? And he's like, I watched the video. And Toby goes. He talked through most of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's like, Toby. Toby throwing him under the bus.

[Jenna Fischer]

So now we finally have to talk about the scene where Michael stands up to Todd Packer, otherwise known as the boner scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

The boner scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

Todd Packer is making this joke about someone attending a nymphomaniacs convention.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And all the gals are like perfect tens, except for this one gal.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he points to Phyllis.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then Kevin says, I like Phyllis.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then Phyllis looks really sad.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, so sad.

[Jenna Fischer]

So hurt.

[Angela Kinsey]

So hurt. And it's awkward. First of all, do we need a joke nymphomaniac convention? Todd Packer, thank you very much.

[Jenna Fischer]

And Michael sees that Phyllis is hurt and he says that that was inappropriate. He says something. But then Todd Packer challenges him and he's like, I mean, Kevin, Kevin, you should not say those things about Phyllis. And then he goes on this whole speech about how Phyllis is great and how he loves Phyllis. She's like a grandmother to them.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she says, I mean, Michael, we're the same age. We went to high school together.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love this.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that fact comes back to haunt Michael all the time. She is constantly reminding him in the series that they went to high school together. It's a really sweet scene. And he hugs Phyllis. And then he says the only thing he's afraid of is getting a boner.

[Angela Kinsey]

A boner. And then Phyllis face. Her reaction is what made it for me. It made that whole scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

It really did. It really did. And I think that there was this way where, I don't know. Do you think Michael is redeemed in that moment? A little bit. Because he stands up for his group a little bit.

[Angela Kinsey]

He does. I think it's definitely the first time he has stood up to Todd Packer. And you can tell. Cause when you see Todd Packer's face, he's like, oh, man, they really got to you. And Michael's like, no, I got to them. Like, whatever that means. But I think it's the first time he's stood up to him. And even though it's a very small way, I think it's that moment once again where this is our writers trying to give Michael a little bit of a growth moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

What? Angela, this. You just referred to the boner scene as the scene where the writers give Michael a little bit of a growth moment. Oh, no, that's perfect. That's perfect. Okay, now let's talk about the scene with Pam's mom. We said a little bit about this earlier. Angela, you expressed your disgust that this is her first visit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. I just am saying, like, where have you been, Mom? That's all.

[Jenna Fischer]

I get it. I get it. But there is more to say here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So first of all, Pam's mom was played by Shannon Cochran. And a lot of people wrote in and said, what the heck is up with Pam's mom? Why is she played by one person in this episode and then another person later on in the show? I will tell you. We wanted Shannon Cochran to come back. We cast her as Pam's mom. We intended for her to always play Pam's mom, but then we didn't need Pam's mom for a really long time. Shannon got a theater contract. She was a touring theater actress with, you know, rain. Her and I had a lot to discuss.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, look at, you know. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Theater pedigree.

[Angela Kinsey]

Fancy theater people.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. And she wasn't available, and so we had to recast her for those later episodes. And it was a really weird thing because the integrity of our show was so important to us. There was this rule for a very long time that we couldn't do anything. Stunt casting.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know if people know what that means.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Explain it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So stunt casting means when you bring on a guest star and they're a big name guest star. Now, of course, obviously, in later years, we broke this rule. Will Ferrell, Kathy Bates, James Spader.

[Angela Kinsey]

Idris Elba.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Timothy Olyphant.

[Jenna Fischer]

On and on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But for a long time, we had this rule against stunt casting, and this kind of fell into that. Like, once somebody was established to play a character, they were that person or they didn't come back. The reason we broke the rule with Pam's mom in recasting is because the writers came up with a storyline that Michael would date Pam's mom. Do you remember that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, how could I forget that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Right? I know. And Pam ends up slapping Michael. But this storyline idea was just too good to pass up, so they decided to recast. And I hope that helps people with the whole two moms question. So I want to talk a little bit about the scene when Pam's mom finally arrives, and you see Roy enter.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God. And his outfit, with his hair slicked.

[Jenna Fischer]

Down his sweater, and he does that little dance to charm Pam's mom. So I'm gonna let you in on a little bit more of my actor prep here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Any Angela, what music she wants.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, what is it?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, I had my Pam document, and I was always asking myself questions about Pam that I thought were a mystery, and I would answer them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wait, I need to clarify for everyone. Jenna's Pam document wasn't given to her by Greg Daniels or any writers or producers. This was a document that Jenna made herself for her character.

[Jenna Fischer]

These are the kinds of things you learn in theater school, Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

You can suck it.

[Jenna Fischer]

These are the things we're encouraged to do.

[Angela Kinsey]

I took some theater. I took theater classes.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, just trained theater actors.

[Angela Kinsey]

I took classes encouraged at HB studios in New York City with Carol Rosenfeld, who was a protege of UTA Hagen. Thank you very much.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right. That's some pedigree.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. All right, I got a blessing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, in my document, I had asked myself the question, how did Pam and Roy end up together? Anyway? So I've answered sort of why I think they're still together. But how did they end up together? They seem so mismatched to me. Here was my backstory. Pam's family owned an appliance shop in downtown Scranton, like, in the town square. And Roy, in high school, got a job working at the appliance store. And he was a great worker. He was very charming, as in the Roy you just saw here in the sweater. And so that was how their worlds collided, because Pam was probably this little nerdy art student in high school. So I couldn't figure out, how did.

[Angela Kinsey]

She meet Roy, who was probably a jock.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And this was how he was very charming. And he asked her out, and they started dating. But because he worked there, like, the families became very enmeshed. They would barbecue together. So this is why and how she kind of can't get out of this relationship, even though now it's clear it's a mismatch. It's because the families are so conjoined.

[Angela Kinsey]

And do you think that Pam decided not to work at the appliance store and go out, branch out? And then Roy followed her to the warehouse.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Angela, I don't know, but I feel like I'm gonna go back and put that in my document, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Because here's Jen, like, here's Pam, like, okay, I'm not gonna work at the family business. I need some space. I need to figure out who I am.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then Roy's like, hey, I got a job at that warehouse. We'll be able to see each other every day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

I find it interesting that Pam eats in the break room with Jim and not in the warehouse with Roy. Now, we see Roy sometimes eat there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, they don't eat lunch together, do they?

[Angela Kinsey]

Not very often.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then Pam's mom has the moment in this episode where she whispers, which one is Jim? And you see John Krasinski's face. He's all pleased that he knows now that Pam. And by the way, in Casino Night, we know Pam calls her mom on the phone to, you know, share about what happened in the parking lot.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I just love the moment. And John played it so well where he sees his opportunity to introduce himself to Pam's mom, and he gets up the courage and he walks over right as Roy walks in, and he just quickly takes, like, a piece of candy and goes back to his desk. And that kind of broke my heart for him. Lastly, from Dave Koechner, who plays Todd Packer. He said, ange, please let everyone know I am nothing like Todd Packer in real life.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. And it's true, everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dave is just a sweet, sweet, sweetheart, father of five.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. And he said. He goes, I just wish you and Jenna all the best. This is such a great idea. I just love it. As a fan of the show, it's.

[Jenna Fischer]

Gotta be hard to believe that he is not like Todd Packer for some people to imagine that if you met him, he is just the warmest, nicest, wonderful gentleman I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I think sometimes you get known as this character, but he's nothing like that. I'm nothing like him. Angela Martin.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is true.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're a little bit like Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

I am.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, guys, that was sexual harassment.

[Jenna Fischer]

That was sexual harassment. We did it. Next week is Office Olympics with special guest director Paul Feig.

[Angela Kinsey]

He is the best dressed man in show business for sure. Go to his Instagram. It is delightful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Second. Second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jurkins and our audio engineer and associate producer is Daniela Silva.

[Jenna Fischer]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Wise Berman and Leah Reese.

[Angela Kinsey]

Dennis Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Brattle. It.