The Paper Ep 8: Church and State

Summary

Office Ladies Podcast: "The Paper" Ep 8 – "Church and State"

Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey
Air Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Jenna and Angela break down Episode 8 of "The Paper” ("Church and State"). They offer behind-the-scenes tidbits, hilarious personal stories, a particularly memorable nostalgia segment about smells, and dig deep into the world of “church and state” in journalism, all while sharing lots of laughs with their co-hosts and guests, including some fun feedback from director Matt Sohn.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Late-to-the-Party Pop Culture Segment (03:02–05:57)

• Topic: Jenna’s idea for a segment called "Late to the Party," where the hosts discuss pop culture that they're slow to discover.
• Show Featured: "Heated Rivalry"
  • Jenna, Angela, and Sam discuss the show’s character depth and focus on hockey as a business (not just sport).
  • Notable quote:
    • "It's mostly hot sexy time or the anticipation of hot, sexy time..." – Angela (04:51)
  • Discussion about finding time as busy parents to watch shows alone, and comparisons to “Stranger Things.”

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2. Fan Chit Chat: Nostalgic Smells (06:10–12:30)

• Caller: Charissa D. from Queen Creek, AZ asks if the ladies have a scent that instantly puts them in a good mood.
• Angela’s Picks:
  • Play-Doh smell transports her to childhood memories.
  • Texas sage reminds her of her family farm.
  • Notable quote:
    • "That smell as you drive through the pasture of that sagebrush is so distinct. I would just breathe it in..." – Angela (08:55)
• Jenna’s Picks:
  • Old Spice (dad/grandpa), gassing up the boat (oil/gasoline).
  • Notable quote:
    • "Things that came to mind were Old Spice aftershave...my grandpa wore it, so that brings up great memories." – Jenna (09:50)
• Sam’s Answer:
  • Callery pear tree, which "smells like cum" (11:13)
  • Funny moment: “We have a cum tree.” – Jenna (11:34)
• Matt’s Answer:
  • Scent of Clinique Happy, worn by his first girlfriend.
• Discussion: How scents trigger strong, sometimes odd, memories; advice about using the senses to stay present.

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3. Episode Breakdown: "The Paper" – Church and State (15:35–end)

3.1 Cold Open and Summary (15:35–17:52)

• Ned discovers Mare has been sleeping in the office due to plumbing issues; there’s comedy about sharing expensive shampoo.
• Costume trivia: Mare’s Sturgill Simpson tee was chosen by the costume designer, aligning with her character’s taste.
  • Notable quote:
    • "I'm like, maybe it's a business? I don't know. Is it a band? … It's a guy. And he's so good!" – Jenna (17:51)

3.2 The Sewer Clog & Softies’ Man Mitts (18:25–27:42)

• Big city “Fatberg” clog caused by non-flushable wipes (aka Man Mitts).
• Ken’s push to spin the product as revolutionary, Ned’s ethical pushback ("separation of church and state").
• Memorable line:
  • “I'm not calling your ass wiping glove the penicillin of personal hygiene.” – Ned (24:05, paraphrased by Jenna)
• Real-life trivia: “Man Mitts” resemble actual products called “Shittens”—a disposable glove for wiping kids. Fun fact research by Jenna.
• Deep dive into real-world “Fatbergs”:
  • The massive Whitechapel Fatberg in London described in grim detail (27:38)
  • Memorable quote:
    • “You might be asking yourself, can I see the Fatberg? … It’s on display!” – Jenna (26:30–26:51)

3.3 Side Story: Esmeralda the Stage Mom (29:57–44:22)

• Esmeralda drags her son Mateo out of school to audition for “Kid Mitts,” rewrites his lines, then hijacks the audition herself in the most cringe-worthy way.
  • “It’s like this Freaky Friday moment where she stands in front of the camera … so, so awkward.” – Angela (44:00)

3.4 Journalistic Ethics & Office Shenanigans (33:56–38:22)

• Ken orders staff to stop the Man Mitts exposé; Ned insists on journalistic integrity.
• Ken’s “reply-all” paper trail for plausible deniability:
  • “In our work… there’s always some person… just part of the reply-all chain. That’s Ken.” – Jenna (35:20–35:55)
• Reference to real workplace personalities who claim credit.

3.5 Behind-the-Scenes: Man Mitt Lab & Robotic Prop (44:36–46:07)

• Extended cut reveals the “Man Mitt” laboratory with a custom, endlessly-wiping robotic arm.
  • “The prop now lives in Greg Daniels’ office!” – Matt Sohn (45:29)

3.6 Climax: The Great Paper Dump & Evidence Retrieval (49:13–59:25)

• Ken & Travis dump incriminating files in a Universal backlot pond — fun behind-the-scenes revealed by Matt Sohn, including set constraints and pond demolition (49:51).
• Travis secretly saves files, which later arrive via drone to Mare.
• Ken is blackmailed into letting the story run and reinstating Ned.

3.7 Resolution: The Power of Sales, Teamwork & Fatbergs (59:25–61:40)

• The newspaper staff rebrand Man Mitts as kitchen wipes; Ned’s sales talents help save the company.
  • “Should Ned be in sales? Yes. Why isn’t he? Lean into what you’re good at, Ned.” – Angela (60:43)
• Final Ned talking head ties together ethical journalism, quitting in protest, and selling 200,000 “kitchen wipes.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On pop culture lateness:
  • “Can we have a podcast where we discuss pop culture but, like, way after it’s past its prime? … Let’s call it Late to the Party.” – Angela (03:04–03:12)
• On office “church and state":
  • “We have to have a separation of church and state. We have to separate these two entities.” – Paraphrased from Ned (24:29)
• On the Fatberg:
  • “It was 250 meters long ... weighed 130 tons, or about the same as 11 double-decker buses.” – Jenna (25:34)
  • “It started to sweat under the glass. And then it started changing colors...” – Jenna (27:14)
• On kids’ pranks:
  • “Do people still TP houses? … What are youth hijinks today?” – Angela & Jenna (48:19–48:53)
• On ethical dilemmas:
  • “If you don’t let me tell this story, I’ll quit running the paper.” – Angela paraphrasing Ned (55:32)
• On workplace dynamics:
  • “There’s always some person … part of the reply-all chain … that’s Ken!” – Jenna (35:52)

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Behind-the-Scenes & Fun Facts

• Sturgill Simpson shirt was chosen to reflect Mare’s taste, based on discussions between Chelsea (actress) and the costume designer.
• The Man Mitt robotic arm prop is real; Greg Daniels kept it in his office!
• Pond scene was shot at the Universal lot, and the producers were allowed to pollute it only because the body of water was about to be removed.
• Two jump scares in the episode were written specifically for big reactions – a Michael Komen specialty.

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Fan Contributions & Q&As

• Leighton R. asked about the pond filming location for the rowboat scene; answer provided by Matt Sohn.
• Yasmine from Dallas inquired about Ken’s scream – confirmed scripted and actor-driven.

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Around the Town (41:16–43:15)

• Mount Baker Boys Wrestling big win; baby chicks with creative names in St. Charles, Illinois; Clearwater, FL’s giant rubber ducky festival.

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Memorable, Humorous Moments

• Angela’s confusion about slang: "Oh, what do they say? They're snatched? No, that's old ladies that get facelifts." (05:03–05:10)
• The “cum tree” smell discussion was especially irreverent and got big laughs (11:13–12:27).
• Props and gifts: Recollections about a Nicolas Cage sequin pillow left behind at a Yankee swap (33:01).

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Outro

• YouTube news: Animated highlights from old episodes, featuring personal photos, are now available.
• Special thanks: Shout-outs to Chelsea Fry, Matt Sohn, and the Office Ladies community.

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This episode is a quintessential Office Ladies installment—full of friendship chemistry, nostalgic laughs, and a meticulous (if slightly tangential) exploration of a very funny "The Paper" episode. Whether you’re interested in behind-the-scenes factoids, the social awkwardness of “stage moms,” or just a deep dive into the world of Fatbergs and office politics, there’s a lot to love in this recap!

Transcript

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[Jenna Fisher]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fisher]

We were on the Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews behind behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fisher]

We're the Office Lady 6.0. Hello.

[Angela Kinsey]

Howdy.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay. I have been dying to Ask you guys something.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fisher]

And by the time this episode comes out, this is gonna feel like such old news. But also, you know, sometimes when you're, like, a busy parent, you're running around and you're working and you're doing the things, it takes you longer to get to things that, like, the whole rest of the world is, oh, is this

[Angela Kinsey]

a pop culture something?

[Jenna Fisher]

It is. It's pop culture.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is it?

[Jenna Fisher]

Late pop culture.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's my favorite.

[Jenna Fisher]

Can we have a podcast where we discuss pop culture but, like, way after it's past its prime?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Let's call it Late to the Party.

[Jenna Fisher]

I love it. All right, here's my Late to the Party.

[Sam]

What?

[Jenna Fisher]

Have any of you watched Heated Rivalry?

[Angela Kinsey]

I saw the first episode. I haven't. I.

[Jenna Fisher]

You watched the whole first one, though?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

Same.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, One episode started because I'm late to the party.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. Sam. Matt.

[Sam]

No, I haven't.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's really good, Sam. It surprises me that you have not.

[Sam]

I know. I'm a very bad bisexual man. I'm very. I'm being reprimanded by multiple groups and multiple text threads.

[Angela Kinsey]

I will just say the two characters are both so interesting, and they have their own sort of, like, story of how they got to this place and their family dynamics and the pressure on them as hockey at that level. And just all of it is just really well done.

[Sam]

I'm watching it. I'm enjoying it. I'm watching it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Matt. Yeah.

[Sam]

I want a little more hockey. That's my one complaint.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I think a lot of dudes say that. Yeah.

[Sam]

But I feel this way about any sort of sports adjacent movie. I, like, always want just, like, a little more sports.

[Angela Kinsey]

You want more sports?

[Sam]

Just a little more.

[Jenna Fisher]

The hockey element is not on the ice hockey, but much more about the machine behind how hockey happens and how you get on a team and then, like, all the different.

[Angela Kinsey]

The business of hockey.

[Jenna Fisher]

The business of hockey. But I do feel like everything we're talking about right now is very much like focusing on the coffee mug in John Wick's kitchen and kind of leaving

[Angela Kinsey]

and not having the hot, sexy time. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of hot, sexy time.

[Sam]

Willfully obtuse.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's mostly hot sexy time. Or the anticipation of hot, sexy time are the buildup to hot sexy time.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes, this very well described.

[Angela Kinsey]

There you go.

[Sam]

There's some pretty incredible specimens. Those guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, what do they say? They're snatched? No, that's old ladies that get facelifts.

[Sam]

The guys can be snatched.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, they can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like six pack abs.

[Sam]

Do you just use the phrase perfectly correctly?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. Where's my confetti?

[Jenna Fisher]

My parade?

[Angela Kinsey]

I used a phrase correctly.

[Jenna Fisher]

Are you gonna watch more episodes? I hear episode five is where it all happens. Are you at episode five yet, Matt?

[Sam]

I mean, a lot has happened before that.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, I guess episode five is the one where people gasp.

[Sam]

I've gasped a ton already. Okay, yeah, I'll keep going.

[Angela Kinsey]

So pretty much I only have an opportunity every once in a while to watch something by myself.

[Jenna Fisher]

Same.

[Angela Kinsey]

And the kids have been wanting to watch Stranger Things, so we're doing that as a family. Yeah. So then I'll have to find squeeze in my heated wifery somewhere else.

[Jenna Fisher]

Sam, please let us know if you start it.

[Sam]

Oh, I will.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay. Well, I loved that late to the party segment. And now it's time for our fan chit chat. Question of the week. This is coming from Charissa D. In Queen Creek, Arizona.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi, Angela and Jenna. I was wondering if there is a specific nostalgic smell that instantly puts you in a good mood. So, for example, I'm a native Arizonan, born and raised, and it doesn't rain very much here in the desert, but when it does, there is a very particular smell that comes with it. And the smell is from the creosote bush. And the rain kind of activates those oils that are in the bush and on the leaves and creates this very, like, strong desert rain smell. And if you've ever been in Arizona during monsoon season or any other rainy day, you probably have smelled it. And some people really like it and some people don't. But for an Arizona native, it's very nostalgic, it's very comforting, and it instantly lifts my mood. And I'm just happy when I smell that smell. And so I was wondering if you guys had something like that maybe from your childhood or adulthood that is nostalgic to you and immediately puts you in a really good mood. I loved this question. This is one I picked.

[Jenna Fisher]

I loved learning about this bush that makes this smell in Arizona.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I just found this so relatable because I think smells really do transport you. So I had a few. Can I just jump right in?

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes, please.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, you guys, the thing that takes me back to childhood, not only memories from my own, but also memories of raising Isabel when she was little, is the smell of Play doh. Like, you know that smell? Like, you open up a fresh can of Play doh. It has such a distinct smell, and it just always makes me Think of when she was little and I just. It was such a precious time. We would just make all kinds of stuff with Play doh.

[Sam]

Were you ever tempted to take a bite? You or her?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, both of us.

[Sam]

It's got that little tempting thing to it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And then, you know, you can make your own play dough, which I did as well. So there's that smell. But much like Teresa, there is a smell that immediately makes me think of our family farm. And it's also a plant. It's called Texas sage, and it's a type of plant. And when I go to the farm and. Jenna, you've got to go to the farm with me. I really want that to happen. We've talked about this as a goal, that you're going to come to the farm and I'm going to go to St. Louis with you.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

But I used to ride in the back of the pickup truck on the farm because, you know, there was no major road. You're just on this little dirt road on the farm. And my grandparents would let us kids all ride in the back of the truck. And that smell as you drive through the pasture of that sagebrush is so distinct. And I would just breathe it in and there's just nothing for miles. It felt like I was taking all this fresh air and goodness into my body.

[Jenna Fisher]

I love that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. What about you?

[Jenna Fisher]

I had nothing come to mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Do you have no smells from growing up?

[Jenna Fisher]

I clearly need to smell more. I just thought of who doesn't love fresh baked cookies or who doesn't love the smell of their mom's special dinner on Christmas? Or, you know, like, I.

[Angela Kinsey]

You sort of had some general thoughts.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. But I really tried to think about, like, a specific smell. I mean, things that came to mind were Old Spice aftershave. It's what my dad wore when I was a little kid. My grandpa wore it, so that brings up great memories. But weirdly, like, I thought of smells like the mixture of oil and gasoline that you smell when my dad would gas up the boat.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

That's before we go out on the lake.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. You know, you're doing it.

[Jenna Fisher]

Am I? You're doing it.

[Sam]

You're doing it in real time.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're like attaching a smell to a memory.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, but every time I smell gas, I don't think of being on the lake as a kid. But there are smells. I guess. But I feel like I need to tune into the aromas of my life.

[Sam]

Sure. I'm gonna pay more attention to the smells around you.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. Well, you know, they talk about if you are having a hard time being present. Ye, touch and smell are two of the things that can. In some meditations I've done, they're like, what do you smell? What do you feel right now?

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, Sam.

[Sam]

All right. And this answer I want to keep in mind, you guys, you asked me this question.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. What are we in for?

[Sam]

There is a tree from my childhood and growing up in North Carolina and outside of North Carolina called the Callery Pear Tree, and it smells like cum. It smells like what?

[Jenna Fisher]

The cum tree?

[Sam]

Yes. Thank you.

[Angela Kinsey]

How did you know it smelled like?

[Sam]

Thank you for making me not seem crazy, Sam.

[Jenna Fisher]

We have one in our neighborhood. Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fisher]

We have a cum tree.

[Sam]

The technical term, it's a callery pear tree. They're an invasive species. They're banned in a couple states, but, yeah, they smell like cum. It's a really, really overpowering smell.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's the coconut water of aromas.

[Sam]

Yes. Yes, it is.

[Jenna Fisher]

Basically. Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

I've never heard of this tree.

[Sam]

You'll know it.

[Jenna Fisher]

You will know it, because there's a. There's a certain time of year that when we walk in our neighborhood, you're like, there it is.

[Sam]

Yep.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fisher]

How do we have that?

[Sam]

I don't know. Here in California, someone planted it illegally, apparently.

[Jenna Fisher]

I guess I know 100% what you're talking about.

[Angela Kinsey]

So that tree makes you think of your childhood?

[Sam]

Yes. Makes me think of North Carolina. Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, there you go. I'll let you know when it's blooming in my neighborhood, and you can come

[Angela Kinsey]

by and want to have a smell.

[Sam]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Matt.

[Sam]

I thought mine was risque. I was going to say Clinique Happy because my first ever girlfriend wore Clinique Happy, and it's so powerful. I like some.

[Matt Sohn]

I don't know.

[Sam]

Mom at some school event was wearing Clinique Happy at a thing recently, and I was like, I'm sorry, are you wearing Clinique Happy? And it really took me right back there.

[Jenna Fisher]

That really rattled you. You're like, oh, wait.

[Sam]

I was like, I need to leave. I'm gonna pass out. Yeah. That takes me back to early high school.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. All right, well, Theresa, thank you so much for that question. I loved it.

[Jenna Fisher]

Why don't we take a break? And when we come back, we're gonna be breaking down episode eight of the Paper, Church and State.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Angela Kinsey]

all right, this is episode eight of season one of the paper written by Ben Philippe and directed by Matt Sohn.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we reached out to Matt Sohn. You guys know listening that Matt was our camera operator on the Office. He also directed many episodes and he sent us in some behind the scenes little tidbits that we'll share throughout this episode.

[Jenna Fisher]

Let me hit you with a summary. Ned's past as a high pressure toilet paper salesman comes in handy when Mair uncovers a story that pits the truth teller against its corporate owner. Meanwhile, Esmeralda becomes a stage mom to help her son book a commercial.

[Angela Kinsey]

That was so cringy. We'll get to it. We have a cold open where Ned is sharing that he enjoys arriving early to work to review stories and catch up on emails. And as he's going through sort of like this storage area where there's all these files of papers, he discovers Mare has been sleeping at the office.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, there's an issue with her plumbing. She hasn't been able to bathe. And Ned notices she really smells.

[Angela Kinsey]

My favorite line in this entire episode, and I need to text Chelsea about it, is Mar's response to Ned when Ned says, God, what's that smell? And Mar goes, I'm doing what I can. She's like so defeated. She's like, she doesn't have anywhere to bathe.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, Ned's going to offer to let her go over to his place and take a shower, but please don't use the nice shampoo, Ned.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I stand with Ned. What? Well, I mean, if you've got a really expensive shampoo, you know, maybe like, save that for yourself.

[Jenna Fisher]

I mean, maybe you don't want to share it on a regular basis, but like a single shower.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Jenna Fisher]

She's going over there one time. Okay, let her just use the shampoo, I think. I don't know. Well, I don't know if you noticed, but Mehr is wearing a T shirt, sort of like a vintage looking tee with a kind of a cowboy on it. And it says Sturgill Simpson. And I didn't know if that was a real person or I'm like, maybe it's a business. I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is it a band?

[Jenna Fisher]

It's a guy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is he a singer?

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes. And he's so good. Oh. I asked Chelsea about it and she said early in her conversations with Kathleen, the costume designer, they talked a little bit about Mare's musical tastes as part of her character discussions. But ultimately this shirt was Kathleen's idea. And Chelsea says she loves it. Cause she's a big fan. So I'm like, I gotta look this guy up. I looked him up. He's amazing. Talk about late to the party again. I'm obsessed now. I'm listening to him all the time.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I'm going to as well. He reminds me of like old country. Like Waylon Jennings. Like that whole vibe.

[Jenna Fisher]

That's who he gets compared to.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, now we're gonna get into the episode. Everyone is out investigating this giant clogged. They're literally like, man, on the street. They've got their notepads and their pencils, and Nicole's there and Mayor's there, and Oscar and Barry. There's a huge truck, like, trying to unclog the sewer, Right? Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

There's like. Yeah. All these city vehicles trying to figure out what's going on.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's going on? It turns out Mair's entire neighborhood has been affected by this giant clog. And Oscar has a talking head where he says, ned's really excited. This is gonna be a big story. Barry is kind of ticked off because this is also affecting his girlfriend's apartment. And now she, I guess, is bunking with him, and he doesn't like that.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want to point out this entire time that Oscar is talking from 1 minute, 58 seconds to 2 minutes and 27 seconds, he's holding a huge burrito.

[Jenna Fisher]

Who can eat next to a sewer clog?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, who wants to?

[Jenna Fisher]

That's what I mean.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. Now he never takes a bite of it. It's just a prop. He has to hold the whole entire time.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. But I feel like as soon as he's done talking, he's gonna lay into this what looks like a giant breakfast burrito.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just found myself just waiting for him to take a bite of the burrito.

[Jenna Fisher]

It doesn't happen.

[Angela Kinsey]

It doesn't happen.

[Jenna Fisher]

At least not in the broadcast version.

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fisher]

And we should remind people we're watching the broadcast version because it's the one that's running on NBC that's accessible to everyone.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's free.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Esmeralda is now going to arrive to work, and there's, like, this long line of people sitting in the hallway by the elevator banks. It looks like moms with their kids because they're holding auditions for the Kidnits commercial.

[Jenna Fisher]

Can I tell you my favorite Esmeralda line? She says, why are there children and their mothers everywhere? Is Group C boarding on a Southwest flight?

[Angela Kinsey]

Why is she gonna throw shade at Southwest?

[Jenna Fisher]

I don't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

She doesn't fly Southwest.

[Jenna Fisher]

Clearly. Clearly. I'm familiar with Group C boarding on a Southwest flight.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm familiar with Group A because Josh does early bird.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, we try to do that. You don't always get it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you gotta be quick.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, now, Southwest has assigned seats.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fisher]

How do we Feel about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't.

[Jenna Fisher]

I. I just booked myself on a Southwest flight and I was able to pick an aisle seat and I got like super excited about it.

[Sam]

I love that. That's incredible.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what?

[Sam]

Being able to pick ahead of time.

[Jenna Fisher]

You like it?

[Sam]

Yes. Yeah. I hate the free for all.

[Angela Kinsey]

I like picking my seat. The free for all stresses me out. It's like trying to make sure you and your friends get good seats at the movies. And then someone's gonna give you the Starkey side eye. Cause maybe you have to put your hoodie on a seat because your friend isn't boarding in your group.

[Sam]

Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Sam]

No one's ever satisfied.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't need that stress. Yeah, we're for it, I guess. Okay, back to this episode. Ken has this talking head where we learn that Softies has had this amazing success with a product called Man Mitts. They kind of look like toilet paper gloves you use to wipe your butt.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, he's wearing them in the talking head and they're like white gloves.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. The idea is that you put these things on your hands and then you wipe after you go number two.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fisher]

Did you know this is a real thing and that they're called Shittens?

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, they're available on Amazon and they were designed for parents to use while wiping their kids butts. Like particularly if you have like a young child and they have like a big blowout. You can use a shittin.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want to know the pitch meeting for the title of the name.

[Jenna Fisher]

I don't know. It's Memorable Shittens. They cost about a dollar per shittin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Are they flushable?

[Jenna Fisher]

No. They are labeled as disposable but not biodegradable or flushable.

[Angela Kinsey]

So they're going to live forever.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, isn't everything technically disposable?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, because that means it's single use and you throw it away.

[Jenna Fisher]

Right. But I mean literally anything can be disposable if I just dispose of it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

I could use a washcloth on my kid's butt and then just throw it away and so becomes disposable.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, my purse, let's say I don't want my purse anymore.

[Jenna Fisher]

I. Disposable. Disposable, Exactly. So, but this is, it's a big selling point on the Shittens website is that they are disposable. But I just wanted to say that

[Angela Kinsey]

is like some marketing trickery.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, I asked Greg if Shittens inspired the Man Mitts or the Kid Mitts and he said no. He had never heard of shittens. He said they were inspired by food service gloves, and that's how he described them when they were writing this episode. So I just think it's interesting that Greg independently thought of a poop wiping glove.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm not surprised by it. He probably, in another life would have been like some kind of inventor. Yeah, he always has ideas about things like that.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ken shares that him and Ned have had a few heated debates about how to best get the word out about the man mitts. We have a flashback to the day before, and I love this dialogue. Ned says he's really ticked off at Ken. He's fired up. He says, I'm not calling your ass wiping glove the penicillin of personal hygiene.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. So they go back and forth and Ken says something, Angela, about like, oh, just because the corporate office owns this item, you're not gonna write about a glowing review of it. And Ned's like, you're correct. We have to have a separation of church and state. We have to separate these two entities.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that might come back to bite him in the butt later. We'll get to it. So now we're out on the street and Mary and Nicole are watching this really disgusting, giant, massive clump of stuff getting pulled out of the sewer. And Nicole says, what does that look like to you? Dun dun dun.

[Jenna Fisher]

Guess what it is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, they took pictures back in the office. They're showing them to Ned and it's the man mitts. Yeah, thousands of them.

[Jenna Fisher]

You know, this got me googling. I hope no one has eaten recently. But I did deep dive the biggest sewer clog in history, and it's called the Whitechapel Fatberg. And it was found in a sewer below Whitechapel in east London in 2017.

[Angela Kinsey]

What was it?

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, it was a combination of cooking fat, wet wipes, and other sanitary products.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, God.

[Jenna Fisher]

It was 250 meters long, which is about two and a half American football fields. And it weighed 130 tons, or about the same as 11 double decker buses.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fisher]

The term fatberg was first used to describe the rock, like lumps of cooking fat that used to wash up on British beaches because people would pour their cooking fat down the drain. But now it's been adopted by sewer workers to describe sewer clogs caused by people pouring their grease down the drain. And then it's sort of like coagulating with other things that aren't degrading quickly. London has had a lot of them, but this Whitechapel Fatberg was the Biggest. It took two months, seven days a week to clear it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Geez.

[Jenna Fisher]

And you might be asking yourself, can I see the Fatberg?

[Angela Kinsey]

Wasn't. But okay, you can.

[Sam]

I was.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's been preserved by the London Museum, and it's on display. Wait, that's part of their permanent collection.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's like 11 a section of it,

[Jenna Fisher]

not the whole thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was like, that's like a monolith somewhere.

[Jenna Fisher]

Also, it has changed over time.

[Sam]

Good.

[Jenna Fisher]

So when they first received a piece of it, because they asked, can we have a piece of it? They were trying to figure out how to display it, because at first it was, like, full of bacteria and toxic gases. So they had to air it out, dry it out, and they kind of thought, like, okay, I think it's good now. So they put it under glass. But I guess it still had some moisture in it because it started to sweat. Oh, come on. Someone say sweat started to sweat under the glass. And then it started changing colors from, like, dark brown to pale gray to dark beige.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is it now? Oh, no.

[Sam]

Is it.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay, it's dark beige now. Also, mold grew on it, and then at a certain point, flies started spontaneously hatching out of it. Well, yeah, they said the flies are gone now, and now the Fatberg is slowly shrinking. It's getting smaller.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is it running out of oxygen?

[Sam]

Will children be able to see it?

[Jenna Fisher]

You guys, I don't know.

[Sam]

How fast is it shrinking? I didn't say faster than the ice caps.

[Jenna Fisher]

It didn't say, oh, no.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like this is going to outlive all of us.

[Sam]

I think we all need to see it immediately before it's gone.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's gone.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Incidentally, the United States have had some Fatbergs as well. Shout out to Clinton township, Michigan, in 2018, and Baltimore, Maryland, in 2017. The Michigan one was 100ft long, 11ft wide, and 6ft tall, roughly an eighth of the size of the London one. So, America.

[Sam]

And this is recent, too. This is a problem we still haven't solved.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's a recent problem.

[Sam]

Geez.

[Jenna Fisher]

Ugh.

[Sam]

I don't know why, but that makes me think of. You guys are both familiar with the Dave Matthews Band 2004 Chicago River Incident? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Sam]

Did they do that on purpose, or was it a test?

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Okay. So the legend goes, on August 8, 2004, the banned tour bus dumped approximately 800 pounds of human waste from its blackwater tank through a Kenzie street bridge in Chicago onto a site that seeing

[Jenna Fisher]

boat below that was going under. That's. So they did it on purpose. The guy pulled the lever. Oh. I listened to a whole podcast on it. It's really good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Want to, like, on the boat?

[Jenna Fisher]

Just. He didn't want to on the boat. It was like, rather than go hook the bus up to the thing, he was like, I'll just hit the button as we're going over the bridge.

[Angela Kinsey]

They were dumping in the river. He didn't know it would go onto a boat of people. People. Oh, my God. Yeah. What was the name of the bridge?

[Sam]

The Kinsey Street Bridge.

[Angela Kinsey]

Kinsey. How do they spell it?

[Sam]

K, I, N, Z, I, E. Okay.

[Jenna Fisher]

You know that podcast, the Alarmist?

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

They did a whole episode on it. It's great. You know, their job is to figure out who's to blame.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

For different things in history. So they wanted to discuss who was to blame for that.

[Sam]

Okay, good.

[Jenna Fisher]

I listen to it. I blame the guy who pressed the button.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Esmeralda is now going to become basically a version of Mommie Dearest. It's so cringy to me. She yanks her kid, Mateo, out of school. He's like, I was taking a math test. And she's like, so what? Addition, subtraction. What do you want to be when you grow up? A florist? And she's, like, yanking him through the street to take him quickly to audition for this commercial.

[Jenna Fisher]

Meanwhile, Ned is starting his investigation on their Fatberg. He wants to know who knew that these wipes really were not flushable. When did they know it? Who can they trust? He's gonna write a story about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Mare's in cahoots with him. She's gonna go try to get intel from Kimbo.

[Jenna Fisher]

Ugh, I loved this scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's trying to flirt with her.

[Jenna Fisher]

I pulled a clip. I think we should hear it. Let's hear it.

[Angela Kinsey]

How you doing?

[Jenna Fisher]

Hey, could we talk about something girl to girl?

[Angela Kinsey]

Of course.

[Jenna Fisher]

Mary Bear. Girl on girl. It's gorgeous braid. Is this somebody's birthday?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, every Wednesday's someone's birthday. When's yours, blondie? So, the man.

[Jenna Fisher]

Men.

[Angela Kinsey]

You guys have been moving a lot of those bad boys lately, huh?

[Jenna Fisher]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, here's my question. Have you guys gotten any complaints that they're not actually flushable?

[Jenna Fisher]

Get off my desk. That's my chef's kiss scene of the week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Remember I said I was gonna say my favorite? This is my favorite. I like these two women together. I love the line, every Wednesday is someone's birthday.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's a great line.

[Jenna Fisher]

It's great. I like their Dynamic. They're both really funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved the braid. It's not her hair, so I'm like. She just sometimes elects to wear those attachable ponytail braid things.

[Jenna Fisher]

It looks like the thing that, like, if you have a daughter and she's in her frozen stage and she wants to have the long Elsa braid that comes down and goes over her shoulder,

[Angela Kinsey]

clip it to the back of her hair. It reminded me of one of my early Yankee swap parties. And you won the fake hair ponytail.

[Jenna Fisher]

I won one of those.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was like as long as a horse's tail.

[Jenna Fisher]

It really was.

[Angela Kinsey]

I have a picture of you. You attached it that night at the party. You wore it for the rest of the night. I have a picture of you sort of like over the shoulder with your giant horse ponytail.

[Jenna Fisher]

Whatever happened to that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know. You took it home.

[Jenna Fisher]

I did.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't find it at my house.

[Jenna Fisher]

You know what? That might have been disposable.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I think it was disposable. It might have been a lot of people that night. If they didn't like the gift they got. They hid it around my house, and I found it, like, months and months later, I would find things.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, you know, we've taken over the Yankee swap Christmas party tradition now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. You do it with kids. Mine was like, rowdy adults.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, but we get a lot of things left at our house too, every year.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, hopefully not on purpose.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, one year, Oscar's daughter won a sequined pillow. It was like one of those pillows where, like, it's red, but then if you swipe up the sequins, then it's something else. It was just a picture of Nicolas Cage that got left behind. And we get it out every Christmas now. And they think it's really funny.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's actually a really great Yankee swap gift.

[Jenna Fisher]

I agree.

[Angela Kinsey]

Nicolas Cage sequin pillow that changes. Like what it looks like depending on the direction.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's brilliant.

[Jenna Fisher]

All right. Ned calls Nicole, Detric, Adam, and Adalola into his office. He needs the whole team on this story. Travis tries to come in and join the party, but Ned says, I'm sorry, I'm gonna need you to recuse yourself. Because this story would implicate softies and some wrongdoing. And you work for the softies side exclusively.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

So Travis is like, all right. He reluctantly gives up his self made press badge.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ken is gonna come barreling in, and he's like, listen, you cannot do this. I forbid you to do this story. And Ned is pushing back, and then finally Ken's like, okay, he's going to play hardball. He's like, accountants, you work for both companies. You're going back to Switzerland. You're out of here. And then he's like, dietrich, you are in sales. He pulls him out. You're going to go sell these hand mitts now. And then he makes the accountants leave because they work for both companies. So basically it's just down to Mayor Ned and Nicole. Ken leaves Barry in charge, and then Barry immediately kind of tells them to go write a story on Charlie's Angels. So they're like, okay, basically we're on our own here.

[Jenna Fisher]

So now Ken is realizing that there is a paper trail that implicates him. He has co signed every email.

[Angela Kinsey]

He is so ridiculous. He's so funny. To me, this whole talking head is brilliant because he basically says, you guys, he responds to every single email so that it can seem like it was partly his idea.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. So that when things succeed, he can be like, I was there all along. Don't you know these people?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

In our work, and not in our podcast work, but in the world of Hollywood.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

There's always some person when you're trying to get some project off the ground. That's just part of the reply all chain that they do. No real developing, no real producing, no real anything. But they're cc'd on it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And they just do the replay reply all with like, looks good.

[Jenna Fisher]

Loving this direction.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Way to go, guys. Great idea. And then somehow, then they're part of the project. That's Ken.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's Ken.

[Jenna Fisher]

Ken's the reply all man.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ken's the reply all man. But he goes one step further. He then prints out his reply all.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. Cause he wants a paper trail to prove that he was part of all of these different ideas, but he actually generated zero ideas. So Ken decides he has to get rid of this elaborate paper trail that he's created. So he's going to try to enlist Travis. And they have this really fun back and forth. I really liked how he was like, will you help me get rid of this? And Travis is like, yes. We're going to agree on a location, but then when we get there, we'll go to a second location. And then Ken is like, can we just go to a third location right off the top? They're having this, like, whole, like, yeah,

[Angela Kinsey]

let's get to it.

[Jenna Fisher]

And finally they're like, fine, we'll meet in the parking lot in 10 minutes.

[Angela Kinsey]

So Ned is now gonna do a bold move in my Opinion. He's gonna give Mare and Nicole access to his old softies email. I think they're trying to dig into this softies email to see if they can find who's responsible for the man mitts.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're doing some mom detective work here. But he's like, yeah, here's my emails. Go through them. I don't have anything to hide. But what Nicole and Mare find actually is this. I don't even know what you would call it, Jenna. It's like an inspirational video where Ned is teaching the salesman how to sail. Like, he's saying things like, you've just got to go figure out what starts your engines. So let me hear your engines. Come on, guys. Open up, fellas. Vroom, vroom. And then all these salesmen are going, vroom, vroom.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. I guess they discover that back in his days as a salesman, Ned was so good that the company asked him to make motivational videos for the rest of the sales team.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

And so he's there, and he's got this whole different Persona. He's got, like, slicked back hair.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's just like, boo, boo, Glengarry Glen Ross. Like, you got a sale. Sale. Mare has a string of hilarious comments.

[Jenna Fisher]

She does.

[Angela Kinsey]

She says, you look like you, but, like, 25% more oily. You look flammable. You look like if Draco Malfoy had a cocaine problem.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he really gets his feelings hurt, but he's trying to act like his feelings aren't hurt. And she's like, okay, look, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. And he's like, no, not at all. I like being ribbed. You look like Macaulay Culkin now. And then. Her look to camera is so funny.

[Jenna Fisher]

I know. She's like, hey, hey.

[Angela Kinsey]

He just made it personal.

[Jenna Fisher]

I know. Well, listen, now we're gonna get into the mega cringe part of this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

But before we do, maybe we should take a break just to get our bearings, because we're gonna now watch Esmerelda as the ultimate ST. Lady. There is a mom at my school, and she has I don't know how many different pairs of eyeglasses, and they coordinate with her outfits in this really amazing way. And I asked her, how are you doing that? And she said, I get all my glasses at Warby Parker.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love Warby Parker. I just got a pair of glasses there if you have a narrow face, and I do, so I get the narrow width. And I just got a pair. They're called the Wilkie Black Matte Eclipse.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well I went on their app and it's really awesome. You put your face and you can just cycle through all the glasses and see what they look like.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, it's great.

[Jenna Fisher]

I think I'm gonna get a pair of prescription sunglasses.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh yeah, I have a pair. Warby Parker gives you quality and better looking prescription eyewear at a fraction of the going price. Our listeners get 15% plus free shipping when they buy two or more pairs of prescription glasses at warbyparker.com office ladies

[Jenna Fisher]

that's 15% off when you buy two pairs of glasses at w a r b yparker.com officeladies after you purchase they

[Angela Kinsey]

will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you Real Skin results

[Jenna Fisher]

Start with one daily ritual Meet Daily Microfoliant from Dermalogica. This iconic exfoliating powder activates with water to gently polish away dullness and uneven texture. It leaves skin inside instantly smoother and more luminous while supporting your skin barrier. Formulated with professional expertise to deliver visible results daily even on sensitive skin. Discover your healthiest skin today. Visit dermalogica.com and use code Smooth at checkout for an exclusive gift with your $65 purchase.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why have I asked my agevat guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how

[Jenna Fisher]

quickly he replaced our air duct.

[Angela Kinsey]

I knew I could trust him to

[Jenna Fisher]

change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.

[Angela Kinsey]

Make it quick young man. Aw see Pop Pop trusts you.

[Sam]

I think we should call a doctor. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

[Angela Kinsey]

all right, we are back and before we get into some major stage mom, we thought we would kick it off with our Sam around the town.

[Jenna Fisher]

Our first piece of news comes from Cal f in Deming, Washington who says the Mount Baker boys wrestling team defeated Blaine last night 4640 at the duel at home for Mount Baker. Go Baker.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love it. Julie B. From St. Charles, Illinois wrote in and said Mrs. Bowler is contemplating her judgment after impulsively acquiring acquiring five baby chicks at Easter time this past year. Turns out she acquired four hens and one rooster. Now she braves the frigid sub zero temperatures every morning to go take care of her sweet hens that are named Night Raisin, BlackBerry and Mary Poppins as well as the Grumpy rooster Daffodil. Everyone is Looking forward to stretching their wings in spring.

[Jenna Fisher]

Oh, Julie, I was so charmed by this one. I just acquired three new foster kittens. And I know where you're at, Julie. Yeah, it seems like a good idea. And now you have just kittens coming out of your ears. Or in your case, chicks. But I would like to compliment Julie's ability to name all of these chickens.

[Angela Kinsey]

And daffodil. What a great name for a rooster.

[Jenna Fisher]

I mean, my gosh. Will you name our kittens Julie?

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, our last around the town comes from Kendra C. In Clearwater, Florida. Kendra writes, the city of Clearwater erected a 61 foot high rubber ducky along with her 10 foot tall baby duck at Coachman park for the month of January. And I guess lady lots of people went and took their photos with it. I'm googling it. I guess they have this duck festival happening all month. Look how big this duck is.

[Jenna Fisher]

Oh my gosh, it's enormous.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'll put it in stories. Well, there you go, you guys. That was our around the town thank you for everyone who wrote in.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, now that we've warmed your heart, we're gonna put a cringe in your spine by explaining what is happening with Esmeralda. Her son is auditioning for Kid Mitts and he's doing great. Yeah, like, he does a good job. He's standing there, he says, the script. The casting director says, oh, will you do it again? Gives him a little. He starts to do it again. And all of a sudden Esmeralda's gonna speak up. And she's like, you know what? Can we wait? Do my rewrites? I did some rewrites. So her son is like, okay, he's gonna try to do some rewrites. And then Esmeralda is like, nah, dad, I'm gonna do it. And then she takes over and turns the whole commercial into a commercial just starring the moment.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's like this Freaky Friday moment where she stands in front of the camera and then acts like she's seen some bright light. Like some kind of like, I don't know, lightning bolt thing. Her whole body starts to shake. And then she's like, oh, my gosh, I am now in my mom's body. I am Mateo. Like, it's so, so awkward.

[Jenna Fisher]

So awkward.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, there was a scene that was in the extended version that would have happened here where basically Ned and Mare are going out to investigate the man and they find their lab where they're created.

[Jenna Fisher]

The Man Mitts lab.

[Angela Kinsey]

The Man Mitts lab. And the sort of scientist, the engineer lets them in and lets them look around. And you guys, it's really worth it if you can find the extended version on Peacock to watch this, because what the props department must have had to go through to create this contraption. There's basically like a man mitt on a robotic arm that mimics the wiping motion, you know, to a mannequin's butt.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

But it's like on a. It's on a loop. So it's like robotic arm swings, wipes, swings, wipes, swings, wipes. So it's just constantly wiping the ass of this mannequin. Okay. They had to build that.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

So I can't even believe what went into that. And Matt Sohn shared a little bit about it. I want you to hear it.

[Matt Sohn]

One of the most entertaining scenes was the one where Ned and Mare sneak into the laboratory. If you notice the machine that is counting up the number of wipes a man mitt can do. This was something that Greg Daniels was really focused on and really enjoyed building this prop. It now lives in his office.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna that lives in his office. Greg's office has the front desk reception area from the office.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Pam's desk. And now it has this mannequin robot wiping machine. Wiping machine.

[Jenna Fisher]

That's pretty special. It reminds me a little bit of the prop they had to build on the office when Dwight was making Nate unply to turn the two ply into one ply.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. Well, things are kind of starting to turn here on softies. The softies employees are starting to get complaints. Kimbo is fielding a complaint call. She tries to dismiss it. She can't believe that people are trying to discredit man mitts, their wonderful product.

[Angela Kinsey]

She gets really mad after this one call and she throws a man mitt at the wall. Matt also shared with us about this gag and how it came about, and I think we should hear it.

[Matt Sohn]

There's a scene where Kimberly throws the man mitt and it sticks onto the glass wall. We had to do several takes of that, getting the man mitt more and more damp so it would actually stick. But when it happened, it was very funny and the crew broke up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Here's my question. Why is it damp?

[Jenna Fisher]

That is not explained. I thought the same thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why does Kimbo have a really damp wad ass wiping mitt at the ready to throw at the wall?

[Jenna Fisher]

That goes unexplained.

[Angela Kinsey]

It is really funny.

[Jenna Fisher]

Do kids still do that thing where they go in the bathroom and then you make toilet paper wet and Then you throw it up and make it stick to the ceiling. Is that still a thing? Is that, like, the hijinks of children today or not? Maybe.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I'm sure it's still happening. I'm sure. I mean, here in a minute, the softies people start throwing the big toilet paper rolls at the truth teller employees. Like, they hit Atalola in the back of the head. They hit Oscar. And Oscar gets really ticked off, and he's like, listen, there is an art form to the toilet papering, okay? You don't just throw rolls into toilet paper. There's an art form. That's something. I'm curious. Do people still TP houses? Do people go and do the toilet paper thing?

[Jenna Fisher]

Lady, I don't think we know anything about the youth today is what I'm gathering.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, we did just say we're late to the party.

[Jenna Fisher]

What are their hijinks? You know, what are youth hijinks today? I feel like youth hijinks are now tech.

[Angela Kinsey]

Tech related.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah, tech related. Like, you make funny edits or something.

[Angela Kinsey]

You're not actually TPing a house or putting saran wrap on the toilet.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. You're not driving to your friend's house in the night.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right. For shenanigans, you make a video.

[Jenna Fisher]

I think maybe.

[Angela Kinsey]

We don't know.

[Jenna Fisher]

How will we ever know?

[Angela Kinsey]

We won't. It's okay.

[Jenna Fisher]

We can live with it. All right, well, let's move on. We're gonna go to a pond, and in that pond is a rowboat. And in that rowboat are Ken and Travis. And Ken has got a box of files, and he is gonna start putting the files just in the pond.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sinking them.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes. When he's distracted, though, Travis is gonna grab some files and hide them in his jacket. Though we realize Travis is kind of. I guess he's being a saboteur. We got a fan question from Leighton R. In Folsom, California, who said, hello, ladies. At 16 minutes and 16 seconds, we see Ken and Travis in a boat in a lake. Where was that scene filmed?

[Angela Kinsey]

Leighton, you always write in the most thoughtful questions.

[Jenna Fisher]

You really do. We really appreciate it. And guess what? We went straight to Matt zone to find out the answer, and here's what he had to say.

[Matt Sohn]

So Leighton asked a question about the pond that we shot the rowboat scene in. That's actually a tiny body of water right in the middle of the universal lot. We had to stick with a very specific area to shoot because there are satellite dishes in one direction. There are buildings in another direction, and in A third direction were where the trams go by on the Universal tour. So we were threading the needle in this little pond to shoot the scene. The only reason that they let us sink these folders of paper that we had to weigh down to get them to sink was because they're ultimately getting rid of the pond and building stages over them. So they allowed us to submerge the paper because they're cleaning it all out very soon.

[Jenna Fisher]

I have a question. If you had to get rid of something, files, evidence, a body, how would you get rid of it? Well, have you ever thought about that?

[Angela Kinsey]

I had never thought about it until we were doing some construction and we had some flooding in our backyard. And so you can build a dry well. So when there's a lot of rain here and we don't get a ton of rain, but then all of a sudden we get, like, weeks of rain and the ground can't sustain it. So we built this dry well. And for those of you guys that don't know, a dry well is like 10ft deep. And you put these boulders of all these different sizes kind of stacked in sort of like a non symmetrical way, and it makes a crevasse. So when the water starts piling in and your backyard is getting flooded with water, it goes into this dry well and naturally trickles down slowly into the ground, and the ground absorbs it, which is great for all of the plants and everything, because a lot of people, when it rains, they have, like, drains that go to the street, and then the street goes into the runoff, and the ground doesn't get to recoup all that moisture. Right. So we had this dry well built, but when they were building it, it's crazy. It's just an enormous hole in the ground. And I thought, like, if someone needed to get rid of something, they could put it at the bottom of this dry well. No one's gonna find it. Made me think of Tony Soprano.

[Jenna Fisher]

That's what I'm saying, right? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, there's nothing in my tribe. Well, I just want to go on record.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well,

[Angela Kinsey]

but, yeah, they dump all the files into this pond.

[Jenna Fisher]

They do.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Ken thinks, well, now I'm good.

[Jenna Fisher]

He's not good.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's not good.

[Jenna Fisher]

Saboteur. Travis. We'll find out later.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I think we should check back in with stage mom Esmerelda. Oscar is going to notice Esmeralda kind of being ridiculous, and he tries to comfort her son, Mateo. He's like, do you know what gray rocking is? And the kid's like, no, and he's like, listen, my mom was pretty toxic. She was a narcissist. She loved drama. So whenever she got into one of her moods, I'd make myself as uninteresting as possible, like a little gray rock. And Oscar's like, maybe I shouldn't have gotten myself involved, but I just want to give this kid a fighting chance. By the way, my mom was not any of those things. He was just trying to help out Mateo. And then Mateo has a talking head where he's like, that old man is a narcissist if he thinks I'm going to listen to him over my own mom.

[Jenna Fisher]

You know, gray rocking is a real thing.

[Angela Kinsey]

No.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes. It's a real way to handle narcissistic personalities.

[Angela Kinsey]

You become uninteresting.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah. I looked this up in a nutshell. The gray rock technique is a method in which you do not emotionally respond when being manipulated by someone who is controlling or narcissistic. It's exactly what Oscar says in the episode. Because ultimately, narcissists want your full attention, and if you become emotionally detached, they will become disinterested in you and move on. But the minute you engage, that's when they start ramping up, and the situation can get emotionally abusive and very manipulative. The article that I read noted, using the gray rock method does not mean ignoring them, because if you ignore them, that can trigger them, too.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fisher]

The goal is, when speaking to them, use a dull voice, keep a neutral look on your face, avoid eye contact, and respond with just a few words. Also, do not ask them any questions. Do not encourage them to elaborate. Do not offer any details about your life. Just be aloof, and eventually they will grow bored and they will try to engage someone else. Also, do not reveal that you're doing this method. Oh, yeah, no, it's a real thing. Gray rocking.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do find, as you were describing, that when I encounter someone like that, I do just shut down. Like, I shut off.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So maybe I've been gray rocking in those moments, and I didn't even realize

[Jenna Fisher]

it, but it's hard because I've been in situations with people like that, and they'll know your buttons and they'll purposely

[Angela Kinsey]

try to push them because they want some reaction. Any reaction, good or bad.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fisher]

So it's a hard method to do.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, one of the things that's a runner through this is Ned pushing back on Ken about writing this article in the Truth Teller. And finally he gets to his breaking point, and he's like, if you don't let me tell this story. I'll quit running the paper. And so he does, and he makes this big speech to the bullpen, and no one really is that interested. Like, he just goes. He makes it a real moment where he's like, this is it. I have to quit. And then he hands the reins over to Mayor, and without even missing a beat, Adam's like, will you let us know where to forward your last paycheck? Like, he's. It's already blip. You're gone. So now Mare's in charge.

[Jenna Fisher]

Lucky for Mare, a drone is gonna fly in to where she is.

[Angela Kinsey]

And very subtle. Who's gonna notice this giant drone making a loud noise, hovering through the bullpen? It's true. Narrowly getting through the doorway, hanging from it, a long string with holding some files. No one's going to notice this.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, they're from Travis. They're the files that he sneaked out of the boat. So now she has her evidence, her hard evidence, and she's going to go find Ken. He's in the commissary. He's at the counter getting ready to order some food. And Mayor taps him on the shoulder, and he lets out this sound. I think we need to hear it. Try our new Greek Bowl. There's always a bowl, isn't there?

[Matt Sohn]

In America, everything's bowls with you guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, hello.

[Jenna Fisher]

This reaction from him cracked me up. I watched it a few times. It's so crazy.

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved everything about this scene. We got this question from Yasmine in Dallas, who said, I love how Ken screams when Mare taps him on the back. I laughed out loud. Did it say Ken screams in the script? And that was his interpretation. Hilarious.

[Jenna Fisher]

I texted Chelsea about it. She said it took quite a few takes before she was able to hold it together and make this happen. And I guess it was scripted.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was scripted. I reached out to Matt Stone about it, and he said there's actually two jump scares in this script. One at the very beginning, and then this one. Here's what he had to say.

[Matt Sohn]

There are actually two scares in the episode. At the beginning, Ned is startled by Mare when he's in the archive room, and he discovers that she's been sleeping there, and he gives a scream. And then later on, when Mayor sneaks up and startles Ken when she ultimately asks him to give Ned his job back. Both of those scenes were written by Michael Komen. He was very excited to get a very specific reaction from the actors, and that all came from him.

[Jenna Fisher]

Okay, so are we learning that Michael Komen likes a jump scare.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is he, like, a horror movie buff, I wonder? You love a jump scare.

[Jenna Fisher]

I don't mind a jump scare.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like in a scary movie?

[Jenna Fisher]

Sure.

[Angela Kinsey]

I hate them. Like, you know what I hate? I hate when someone at night goes down in the kitchen for a snack, and they open the fridge, and then they shut the fridge, and the person's right there. I hate it.

[Jenna Fisher]

You hate that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mm. I'm just waiting the whole time they're going in the kitchen. I'm like, don't go, don't go, don't go.

[Sam]

I'll trade you that. When someone's in the bathroom, they shut

[Jenna Fisher]

the mirror, and someone's in the mirror behind them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, listen, Mair is going to sit Ken down, and she's gonna say, I have evidence. I know that your fingerprints are all over the prototype for man mitts. You signed off on all of this.

[Angela Kinsey]

Busted.

[Jenna Fisher]

And she's like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna forget all this if you let us publish this article and you let Ned come back so that he doesn't look like a wuss.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Ken's like, here's the deal. We're all in this together. We're on the same sinking ship, because if Softies goes down, then the paper is gone. So we have all this back inventory. Now these man mitts, we can't get rid of, and it's going to hemorrhage the company. So they decide, you know what? They're going to reach out to Ned. He is the salesman of all salesmen, right? Yeah. Voom.

[Sam]

Voom.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're gonna ask him to help save the company. He takes such pride in it. Lady.

[Jenna Fisher]

Oh, my gosh. I love this series of scenes. So here's what they come up with. They're gonna repackage the mitts as,

[Angela Kinsey]

like, a dish towel.

[Jenna Fisher]

Like kitchen wipes. Yes, kitchen wipes that you throw in the trash. Ned says they're all purpose, all surface, sturdy, ergonomic kitchen wipes. And he is on fire. He is selling them. They get up to 200,000 in sales.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. They're ringing that like crazy.

[Jenna Fisher]

Here's my hot take. What should Ned be in sales?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Why isn't he. Lean into what you're good at, Ned.

[Jenna Fisher]

He also seems happier.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

His whole disposition changes. Yeah, he's, like, peppy and spirited. He's smiling for the first time in eight episodes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think Mayor should run the paper and Ned should run sales.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Jenna Fisher]

100%. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then they can date and it won't be weird because they're in different departments.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, we just solved all the problems they did. Look at us.

[Angela Kinsey]

If you need us, we're right here. Guys, what you got going on? Ned's going to finish the episode with the talking head. He says, you know, there are several ways to save a paper from writing an important article to quitting to selling a buttload of rebranded kitchen wipes. Today it was all three. Well, there you have it, folks. I for one, now want to see the Fatberg. Sam, I think you're with me.

[Sam]

We don't have a lot of time, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

It's shrinking. It's shrinking.

[Jenna Fisher]

Well, I want to give a big thank you to a few folks for this one. Thank you to Chelsea Fry. Thank you to Matt Sohn. We appreciate your tidbits as always.

[Angela Kinsey]

And thank you for everyone who wrote in questions for this episodes and chit chats and around the towns. We so appreciate you guys.

[Jenna Fisher]

And finally, before we go, I want to give a shout out to our office ladies YouTube because we have gone back to the beginning of the podcast, starting with the pilot. And for the next few weeks, we're going to be releasing highlights thanks to the folks at Cartoona.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, Cartoona Radio. They're going to be animating our clips because, you know, we don't video the podcast, but they have found a really fun way to show highlights with their animation.

[Jenna Fisher]

Yes, highlights from our very first episode of Office Ladies, where we break down. The pilot of the Office is up now on our YouTube page. And what's really special about it is we are able to include a bunch of our personal photos from the pilot. They pop up throughout the animation and I just love it. I love this new visual way. It's a special treat.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So go check it out. I'll put a link in our stories and we hope you guys have such a great week.

[Jenna Fisher]

See you next week. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fisher]

Our senior producer is Matt Beagle. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubico.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese.

[Jenna Fisher]

Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[Sam]

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