Colin Quinn on Incels, Woke Activists, and Peaking at 14

Summary

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Old School with Shilo Brooks — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Colin Quinn on Incels, Woke Activists, and Peaking at 14
Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Shilo Brooks (A) | Guest: Colin Quinn (B)
Main Theme:
A wide-ranging, witty, and reflective conversation with comedian Colin Quinn about John Kennedy Toole’s A Confederacy of Dunces, comedy, masculinity, the strange journey of being a comic, and what the book’s incels and woke activists reveal about the America of both the 1960s and today.

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Main Topics & Structure

1. Colin Quinn’s Comic Origins & the Role of Reading

• [00:35–02:28]
  • Colin humorously claims:
    • "I peaked comedically at 14, so everything there has been downhill" (00:46).
  • On the toughness of comedy: The pain and embarrassment of bombing on stage, especially when people "paid money to boo you" vs. the passive rejection of a casting call.
  • Quinn sees reading as fueling perspective and thus comedy; declares:
    • "Of course reading is going to shift your perspective constantly. That’s what it does every novel. Like, oh, yeah... hopefully that bleeds over into comedy." (01:57)
  • Jokes about stealing lines from novels for his act, as "nobody reads them anyway" (02:28).

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2. Discovery of A Confederacy of Dunces and Its Impact

• [03:04–04:48]
  • Colin first read the novel as a young man on NYC subways. The book made him laugh out loud—unusual for commuters:
    • “I was embarrassed because I started laughing on a quiet train. Laughing out loud.” (03:37)
  • Draws a parallel to how Don Quixote made 16th-century readers laugh.
  • Despite attempts, Colin never managed to write something remotely similar, calling it the funniest book he’s ever read.

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3. The Book’s Peculiar Publication Story

• [05:05–07:21]
  • Tells the legend: Toole’s mother’s persistence; the manuscript being foisted upon Walker Percy; Percy’s skeptical but then rapturous response.
  • Per Colin, New Yorker editor Robert Gottlieb sabotaged the novel and “that’s what made [Toole] kill himself” (07:09).
    • “I’m not just gonna... let society off the hook on Confederacy. He’s on my enemy list when I see him in heaven.” (07:11)

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4. Who is Ignatius J. Reilly?

• [08:15–13:16]
  • Ignatius is described as:
    • "An overeducated mama’s boy... trying to restore monarchy to the United States in the 1960s" (08:15).
    • Unemployed, living with mom, prone to wild philosophical musings—a proto-incel before the internet.
    • "If the internet existed, he’d be on it all day" (09:07).
  • Shilo reads the epigraph ("When a true genius appears... the dunces are all in confederacy against him") (09:11–09:57).
  • Colin reflects on the genius/idiot dichotomy:
    • "But I mean, everybody in the book is a fool in their own way... so he’s as guilty as everyone else.” (10:46 / 11:05)
  • Ignatius as "a real disruptor, to use a modern term, an accidental disruptor of everything" (11:16)
  • Sadness and humor: Initially laughed at Ignatius, now laughs with him, finding "a little bit of Ignatius in all of us" (13:14–13:16).

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5. Contemporary Parallels: Incels & Woke Activists

• [13:55–22:57]
  • Ignatius’s identity rooted in opinions, not actions—a thoroughly modern condition.
  • Shilo: "That’s a kind of way in which this novel... resonates."
  • Both discuss how Ignatius would “be online all day, outraged, going, how dare...”
  • Comparison to Don Quixote: Man out of time, rooting medieval ideas in the modern era.
  • Introduction of Myrna Minkoff:
    • “He’s the incel. She’s the woke activist, and they get together...” (17:59–18:18)
    • Colin reads a hilarious passage describing Myrna, revealing Toole’s satiric eye (20:12)
    • Their union is a love story between “an incel and an activist” (22:34).
    • “Maybe you’ve just solved our polarization problem... Like these two radical y’all should all just get together.” (22:57)

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6. The Book as High Art, Comic Masterpiece, and Social Satire

• [24:02–26:28]
  • A Confederacy of Dunces as high art: Won Pulitzer for its poetic observation, recognizing everyone’s craziness but with love.
    • “It’s observing every facet of society and saying, here’s why they’re crazy too, but in almost a loving way.” (24:24)
  • New Orleans as a character, deeply etched in dialect and local flavor.
  • On the difference between reading written comedy and live performance:
    • “To read something off a page and laugh is like really amazingly... when the characters are funny, it’s like the same as a movie" (29:25)

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7. Comedy, Writing, and Social Perception

• [29:03–35:14]
  • Comparing stand-up with comic writing: Stand-up gets instant feedback, written humor is more difficult.
  • Specificity in character and observation is the engine of both comic writing and stand-up.
  • Great comedy and writing “articulate what’s sort of in your mind... with clarity” (32:02–32:20).
  • On whether humor is innate or trained: “Some of the greatest, funniest people... could have been great comedians if they did the dirty work. But it’s a hassle.” (32:49–33:01)

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8. Gender & Audience

• [33:52–35:27]
  • Discuss if the book lands differently with men and women—Colin says women love it just as much:
    • “All the people I know, women love it... most of the people I know that didn’t love it were men.” (34:15/34:32)
  • Humor in taking high pretensions and bringing them down to “slapstick low”—reminiscent of PG Wodehouse (35:37–36:10).

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9. Adaptation Attempts & the ‘Unfilmable’ Status

• [37:04–40:02]
  • History of movie attempts—John Belushi, John Candy, Soderbergh.
  • “It’s just not meant to be [a movie]. I’ve tried it for years” (37:47 / 38:12).
  • Colin mentions a friend writing a streaming series adaptation, which he feels nailed it—but no takers yet.

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10. The State of Comedy & Cancel Culture

• [41:17–44:26]
  • Comedy’s role and resilience in changing social climates.
  • “People that normally wouldn’t go to comedy clubs... suddenly they’re at comedy clubs right here. Or watching on their phone... So I think that affected a lot” (41:31–41:55).
  • On offense, transgression, and "lines":
    • "You know it when you see it. When a whole room goes, oh, that’s wrong, then you should take a hint." (43:19–43:24)

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11. Lighting Round: Books, Comedy, TV, Irreverence, and New York

• [44:46–51:11]
  • Favorite noncomic writers: “Dickens, Shakespeare, Eugene O’Neill” (45:01)
  • Favorite TV shows: “Sopranos, The Wire” (46:09)
  • Funniest actors: Peter O’Toole, Kevin Kline, Matt Dillon in Something About Mary (46:25–47:16)
  • Being a “comic’s comic”: “Comics loved me, the audience hated me. What’s the difference? Money.” (47:28–47:49)
  • On America’s sense of humor: “They don’t understand irony all the time... Canada’s making you look unironic, you happy, never mind England and Ireland.” (48:07–48:37)
  • Life in New York: “What other people think is rude, we think is polite... it’s a constant motion until you drop dead.” (49:43–50:24)
  • Confesses love for classic NY pizza, but the Comedy Cellar’s Olive Tree Café hamburger is “underrated” (50:54–51:08)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Quinn on peaking early:

  "I peaked comedically at 14, so everything there has been downhill." (00:46)

• On the value of reading for comedians:

  "Comedy is about your perspective... of course reading is going to shift your perspective constantly.” (01:55)

• On why the book is so funny:

  "Every page just makes me laugh." (04:10)

• On Ignatius as an archetype:

  "Everybody has this element of themselves where they’re like... I may have the answers to society... What Ignatius’s problem is always everyone's problem." (12:25–13:14)

• On art and pretension:

  “It’s observing every facet of society and saying... here’s why they’re crazy too, but in almost a loving way.” (24:24)

• On laughter and specificity:

  "To read something off a page and laugh is like really amazingly... when the characters are funny, it’s like the same as a movie." (29:25)

• On what makes great comedy/writing:

  "They're not telling you something you didn't have a glimpse of. They're just articulating it... with clarity." (32:02–32:20)

• On America’s humor deficit:

  "They don’t understand irony all the time... Canada’s making you look unironic." (48:07–48:37)

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Timestamps for Standout Segments

• Quinn’s comic adolescence: 00:46
• Why reading matters for comics: 01:55
• First reading Confederacy of Dunces, subway laughter: 03:37
• Ignatius as incel/disruptor: 08:32, 11:16
• Swift’s Epigraph & ‘dunces confederacy’: 09:11–09:57
• Describing Myrna and contemporary polarization: 18:12–22:57
• Comedy, cancel culture, the 'line': 41:17–44:26
• NYC's comic culture: 49:43–50:24

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Tone & Style

The conversation is irreverent, self-deprecating, and laden with affectionate satire. Quinn is gruff but insightful; Brooks keeps the interview focused, bookish, and accessible for readers and listeners alike. The episode is both comedic and reflective, with serious undercurrents—about art, mental illness, work, and the purpose of laughter in difficult times.

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Conclusion

Colin Quinn’s take on A Confederacy of Dunces is as much about the book as it is about what it reveals in us all: pretension, delusion, and occasionally, genius. Through the lens of comedy, reading, and real-life experience, Quinn and Brooks find fresh resonance in an old classic—one, as they argue, still much needed in the modern world.

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Transcript

[A]

I'm Shiloh Brooks. I'm a professor and CEO and I believe reading good books makes us better men. Today I'm sitting down with Colin Quinn. Colin is a comedian, actor and author. A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole published in 1980, changed Colin's life. Today I'm asking him why. This is old school. Colin Quinn, welcome to old school.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It is a pleasure having you here. I want to start by talking a little bit about you. When did you first realize you wanted to be a comedian? How does a person come to that conclusion?

[B]

Anybody that grew up with me will bat. Will agree with this. I peaked comedically at 14, so everything there has been downhill. But. Yeah, so when I was little, I was really funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was much funnier than I've ever been since.

[A]

So is there a moment when you were like, this is what I'm going to do. Like, I'm not going to be.

[B]

Well, I watch it on tv. But it wasn't. I'm lucky that I. I was knocking around, but I was scared to be a comedian. Scary. You know, the first few.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

100 times you get rejected. Yeah, but. And when you get rejected in comedy, it's people booing you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That paid money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not like a casting session. Like, we don't like it. Which is painful in its own way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. But I just, I don't know, I just started doing it and I was in at the right time. The mid-80s. Comedy became like this thing. So when I came in, there happened to be a lot of people doing it. So you had an instant community.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You assigned me a 500 page book. I don't know that every comedian out there would be like, hey, let's do a 500 page book. But that's what you did. So I'm curious, has reading benefited your comedy? Do you think there are comic writers who you have, I mean, you know, novelist, nonfiction that you have learned from. What's the relationship. Relationship between them?

[B]

I mean. Yeah, I think that reading benefits anybody as far as making you more of an interesting person. Sure. And more, you know, you just see things, you start to. I mean, comedy is about your perspective. Like, it's. We're all talking about the same subjects, but it's how you look at it that makes you go, oh, my God, that person. I never looked at it that way. That's what's so funny, you know? So of course reading is going to shift your perspective constantly. That's what it does every novel. Like, oh, yeah. And so hopefully that, that bleeds over into comedy, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you can actually steal from novels if you want, because nobody reads them anyway, and then do them in your actor. People go, hey, that guy's a genius.

[A]

Yes. This is part of our problem is that we're trying to get people to read the novels.

[B]

I know, I know. You got to put it in clips.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's the key. That's the. And they will, they will chop this right up. So you, you recommended John Kennedy Tools, Confederacy. A Confederacy of Dunces. Yeah. This is an American classic. Can you tell me when you first read this book? Where were you? How old were you? How did it hit you when you read it?

[B]

I was 19. I don't know why I read it. Maybe it was 20 or 21, I forget. But I was young. It just came out and it was like won the, whatever the award it won at the time.

[A]

Pulitzer.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the subways in New York in those days were just graffiti covered hell holes. People go on the subway and everybody that read it used to read books on the subway. And that's America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You'd go on the train and everybody be reading books for the newspaper. That was it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody didn't have a newspaper, book, phone, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we all had the same experience. Go. I was embarrassed because I started laughing on a quiet train. Laughing out loud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I read that people had the same reaction when they read Don Quixote back in the 15th, 16th century. Whenever it was in the middle of Spain, they'd be laughing out loud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's got similarities to Don Quixote. Discuss character. But I mean, yeah, I mean, I read it and I couldn't believe I was in love with this from the beginning. And I've read it so many times since because I'm in love. It's every page just makes me laugh.

[A]

Were you into comedy at that point? Were you a comedian?

[B]

I mean. No, I was not a comedian. No.

[A]

Yeah. What were you doing in your life.

[B]

Knocking around different jobs in New York City? Yeah, yeah, I was. I worked for, you know, in office jobs and I worked in bar, mostly. Restaurant work.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you're reading Confederacy of Dunces and you laugh out loud at this book. Did it, did it occur to you when you were reading it that you could do something similar or.

[B]

No. I've made a couple of attempts over the years to write something similar. It never worked out.

[A]

Yeah, not that I did.

[B]

I probably should have worked harder But I. Because it's such a standard to be held to. But it's my fate. I can't believe how funny it is. I can't believe how funny it is today.

[A]

Yeah, it's such a distinctive book, too. I mean, there's not another book like it other than maybe Don Quixote, which we should talk about. You know, this book has a real distinguished and odd publication history.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we should familiarize people with. Do you know much about that? I'll let you kind of tell the story.

[B]

Well, what happened was Walker Percy, who was the writer himself and was. Was at lsu, and this mother comes to him, goes, my son. My dead son wrote this book, and it was literally handwritten. And he goes. She was trying to get in touch with him for weeks. He's avoiding him. Finally she catches him, tells the story. My son wrote this masterpiece. And he talks about you all the time. And, you know, he never got a public. It was supposed to be published by these people. They never did it. And this guy's like, oh, my God, this lady's dead, son. He goes, out of conscience. I'll read a couple of pages. It was all smeared. He goes, it was written, you know, in those days, it wasn't even typed. I've tablets. But yeah. So he starts reading. He goes, oh, no, it's not bad enough for me to put down in good conscience. I have to keep reading it, you know, the first few pages. And he gives you. That's funny. And suddenly he goes. I start laughing. I realize I'm reading, like, the greatest comic masterpiece of the 20th century, and that, you know, he's read everything. And so that's how it got published.

[A]

Yeah. And so for people who don't know Walker Percy, we did an episode on Percy the Moviegoer is what. He's a novel called the Moviegoer, which is an amazing Southern Gothic novel. Walker Percy is in Louisiana teaching, I think, and is given this manuscript. And John Kennedy Tool was an odd man. I mean, if you read about him, he committed suicide at age 31. Prior to that, he was himself a literature professor, as I understand it, and was himself. In fact, I read his mother would get him to act when he was 10 years old and do comedy shows and these kind of things. So he had some experience of this, but clearly a very pained human being.

[B]

No, but he was pained. Well, the novel is partly him, but it's partly Ms. Yeah.

[A]

Other people.

[B]

Yeah, but he was pained because I blame Robert Gottlieb, the famous New Yorker editor who Was supposed to edit his book. I wrote a whole book about Ignatius rising. Right, Right. And so that guy sabotaged that novel 10 different times.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's what made him kill himself.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not saying he didn't have his own problems. I'm saying I'm not just gonna. I'm not gonna let them off the hook. I'm let. Letting society off the hook on Confederacy. He's on my enemy list when I see him in heaven.

[A]

So tool's mother, desperate to get this thing published, takes this thing to Percy. Percy reads it and is like, this thing is brilliant. The thing gets published 11 years after. Yeah. And so it was written before that.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Yeah, he wrote it over 15, 16.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It was published in 1980.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It wins. He posthumously wins the Pulitzer Prize for this novel in 1981. It's unthinkable, by the way, that a novel like this would win the Pulitzer Prize today, which says something about the Pulitzer Prize. Don't get me started on that kind of thing. But that's what happened. And it becomes this novel of kind of American distinction alongside Walker Percy as this kind of Southern gothic, New Orleans thing. So for people who don't know A Confederacy of Dunces, it's a hard book to summarize, but I'm gonna ask you to do it. What is this book about? Like, give us the story arc so you and me can dive in.

[B]

It's about a very overeducated mama's boy who's doesn't want to have a job. But it feels like he. He's looking to restore monarchy to the United states in the 1960s.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Against all odds, yes.

[A]

He's over educated. He's. He's like all into medieval literature and all this kind of thing. He is, for lack of a better term, very overweight. Very overweight. Kind of a what we would describe today as an incel. I mean, you know, he.

[B]

It's funny you say that.

[A]

It has a. And we should get into this. It has a contemporary resonance. He lays in his bed, he masturbates a lot.

[B]

I hate to say that's right.

[A]

He can't hold down a job. He lives with his mom. Like, it's this whole situation. The Internet doesn't exist in the 60s, but if it did, he'd be on it.

[B]

He'd be on it all day. You're right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's try to comment on everything.

[A]

I want to read for folks, the epigraph to this book, which I think will Give us some entry point into discussing the pathology of Ignatius Riley, which I think resonates more in 2026, maybe even than it did in 1960, for reasons you and me just kind of alluded to. So let me read this. This is what appears at the epigraph of the book before it starts. It's a quote from Jonathan Swift, who was the great author, people don't know of Gulliver's Travels, which everyone should read. It's amazing. When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. And then it starts. And so I. What do you think of that, of that quotation? What does that mean?

[B]

Well, it means that, you know, that they know somebody by their enemies, you know, of course it's self serving for Ignatius, but I love it. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Do you think he's brilliant or do you think that he's an idiot because he has these pretensions, I'm gonna bring universal peace to the world. I'm the most well read man. And he writes on big Chief tablets in his footnotes. And it's like a scholar, but at the same time, this dude is eating junk food, pounding soda, called Dr. Nut, which I understand is the real soda. It was a real soda. He's masturbating in his bed. He's got constant gas.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's always telling everybody about his gas. He's like, my valve, he calls it, is open.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He gets nervous. Is he a genius or is he a fool or what's the difference?

[B]

Well, well, that's the point. But I mean, everybody in the book is a fool in their own way. Including him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm saying it's not like he's the only fool. It's a. It's everybody's kind of duncy, you know, I mean, like all these people, all the other characters who are also hilarious are all fools in their own way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everyone's thinking they're doing one thing and they're doing another, so he's as guilty as everyone else.

[A]

Do any of them see it or do they.

[B]

The Levies? None of them see it.

[A]

None of them see it.

[B]

They just know a guy like him, like upends the world. He's like a real disruptor, to use a modern term, an accidental disruptor of everything. So, you know, everything he does is just psychotic.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think when taking a guy like Ignatius, you know, he has these lofty ideals and he fails to live up to them, like we talked about. There's this scene where he's like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to get a bunch. I'm going to go to a party of gay men, and I'm going to get a bunch of gay people into the military. And they're going to be so concerned with, like, other things, you know, fineries and other things that they're not going to want to go fight. And that's going to bring universal peace to the world. And so then comedy ensues. He dresses up as a pirate and goes to a party of gay men. And they're. And then they eventually shout him out of there. They're like, you suck.

[B]

No, no. Three lesbians beat him up. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then. And then he has to go out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I'm trying to figure out, like, what is funny, because there's a part of Ignatius where it's just sad, but maybe sad things and funny things, you're the expert on this. Go hand in hand. But what is funny about Ignatius?

[B]

I feel like my personal opinion over the years we were talking beforehand, I was saying, when I was younger, I laughed at Ignatius. Now I laugh with Ignatius because I'm like, oh, my God, everybody. Because everybody has this element of themselves where they're like, you know what? I may have the answers to society. I don't know what's wrong with everybody else, but I've got some serious answers. And people's behavior and what they say are always two different things that the Internet kind of exposes. You know what I mean? So. So there's a. There's always an element of truth. Like I used to say about Rodney Dangerfield, the same thing I used when I was a kid. I was like, aha. Rodney gets no respect. And you can see he doesn't get respect, the way he looks, the way he talks. But it's really saying to all of us, we're laughing because we don't get respect either. So it's like, same thing with Ignatius. What? Ignatius's problem is always everyone's problem.

[A]

There's a little bit of Ignatius in all of us.

[B]

Yes. In the journey of life, if you meet somebody like Ignatius, you wouldn't even know that. Descriptions horrifying. You'd have to. People would be drawn to him because he speaks so poetically and what he says has so much truth in it. And even the insane things that I couldn't not hang out with a guy like that. I would be like, what's Ignatius doing? I gotta see him or get him on the phone. Because his opinions that are so grand, but they're not based in complete ignorance. They're based in like, you know, the philosophy of Boethius and all these other people. And just there's so much going on there.

[A]

One of the things that characterizes Ignatius, that strikes me as extraordinarily contemporary is he's a man whose entire sense of himself, identity, whatever you want to call his being, is constituted by his opinions, you know, his thoughts versus his actions. Because his actions are. He works at a pants store. So the other part of the story.

[B]

Here is a factory. Yeah.

[A]

His mother crashes their car into a brick wall, gets a bill for like a thousand dollars. They don't have much money. They're, you know, lower class kind of New Orleans people. And he, with his master's degree in medieval literature, has to go get a job. So he goes to a pants factory. Of all the things Levy pants, which is hilarious in its own right. Gets a job doing records, but really all he does is throw the records in the trash can. Right.

[B]

He's lazy. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And ends up fomenting revolution with all the people who are selling the pants. And the fact he's like, y got to rise up. And he just totally destroys this thing. And then he gets fired from there and he goes and becomes a hot dog vendor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's a hot dog stand. And my understanding is that tool, when he was in college, met a guy who had a tamale stand and he would go some days when the guy needed to go to the doctor and run the tamale stand and he would eat the tamales and Ignatius eats the hot dogs and never makes a profit. And this is. Yeah, so he's got this whole situation coming back around to where I was going, is that his ideas and his ideals constitute who he is. His actions are utterly absurd. He sells hot dogs and then kind of works at a pants factory and gets fired. That's a kind of modern condition that we're constituted by the saying, not the doing. You see what I mean? And so that's a kind of way in which this novel, I think, resonates.

[B]

I mean, to me it's always going to be funny because it's. It's the purse. The people that we are and our, like you said, our impulses are always going to be. And today come in. In a society where everyone's commenting all the time. Ignatius comments all the time. That's his thing. He'd be online all day, outraged, going, how dare I Mean, this guy would go. Goes to the movies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to yell at the screen and gets thrown into the movie. How Hooper, who produced this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a disgrace.

[A]

You know, you said earlier that there's a kind of Don Quixote resonance here, and I've heard people make that comparison before. Don Quixote, for people who don't know, written by Cervantes, a great Spanish novel. In Don Quixote, the premise is that Don Quixote is a man out of time. He's in a. He's a modern man, but he rides around on his horse as though he's a medieval knight. And that makes it hilarious.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of course. Ignatius is a medieval scholar, which is too old. I mean. Right.

[B]

And he wants to bring back. He said, we have to bring back. You know, even when he's watching a movie, he goes, she should be lashed until she. Until she's limp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he wants punishments from the old days. So when Ignatius stands there and, like, you know, denounces the modern state of factory or whatever, the hot dogs. You see, you see it in a. There's a reality to what he's saying. It's not just like, oh, this guy's a nut. He's not from this time. It's also like, oh, there was a lot of essence of truth in these. In the old ways of doing things, you know? I mean, so it's like, it makes you. I feel like it hits people. Like, that's funny because there's an element there that I'm like, yeah, I wish we could have that clarity.

[A]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it does. I mean, it does result in some hilarious things. Let's. Let's talk about maybe another character. You've got this character, Myrna. Is that her name?

[B]

Myrna Mina Minkoff. She too.

[A]

She too is. I mean, I know this is the 60s, but you feel like you could go to any liberal arts college on the east coast, and I've taught at a lot of them, and go in and you just. She's in the classroom.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can you talk about her and who she is and what her situation is?

[B]

I mean, he's the incel. She's the woke activist, and they get together. And even the way he describes them getting together is you. Because here's what's funny. Doing the novel. He describes it in this lofty way, and you can just imagine all the other people just being horrified and leaving the scene. I'll read the description if you want, because that'll.

[A]

Yeah. Get up.

[B]

That'll clarify her better than I ever do it.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Do you know where it is?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. We're about to find it.

[B]

By the way, speaking of incel. So about five years ago. So I see these articles where people are, like, turning on Confederacy of Dunces. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So tell me about that.

[B]

Because I feel like they felt the mockery of the Myrna stuff and the Ignatius being an incel was problematic.

[A]

So it was both like the incels and the. The woke. Because you said.

[B]

No, it was the. It was wokeness.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right.

[B]

Of course. And it just infuriated me, infuriates me to this day. It was just a brief thing five years ago.

[A]

Yeah, well, so many things were brief things five years ago.

[B]

Yeah, they were.

[A]

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[B]

Here's what it says. Ready, Myrna. I met a young woman who went to college. She was a young, offensive, loud maiden from the Bronx. This expert from the Grand Congress concourse was attracted to the table I was holding by the singularity and magnetism of my being. As the magnificence and originality of my worldview became explicit through conversation, she began attacking me on all levels, even kicking me under the table rather vigorously. At one point, I both fascinated and confused her. In short, I was too much for her. The parochialism of the ghettos of Gotham had not prepared her for the uniqueness of your working boy. She believed that all humans living south and west of the Hudson river were illiterate cowboys or even worse, white Protestants. I don't wish to especially defend white Protestants here. I am not too fond of them myself. Soon Myrna's brutal social manor had driven my courtiers to from the table, and we were left alone, all cold coffee and hot words. When I failed to agree with her braying and babbling, she told me I was obviously anti Semitic. Her logic was a combination of half truths and cliches, her worldview a compound of misconceptions deriving from a history of our nation as written from the perspective of a subway tunnel. She dug into her large black valise and assaulted me with greasy copies of Men and Masses and Broken Barricades. Surge and Revulsion. You see. She was an active member of Students for Liberty, Youth for Sex, the Black Muslims, Friends of Latvia, Children from Miscegenation, the White Citizens Council. Myrna was, you see, terribly engaged in her society. On the other hand, older. And Weiser was terribly disengaged. Myrna was decidedly masochistic. She was only happy when a police dog was sinking its fangs into her black leotards when she was being dragged feet first down stone steps from a Senate hearing. So that describes her. Doesn't get any better than that.

[A]

I invite your reflections on her now, given what Ignatius is we've talked about, he's kind of a modern incel type. You could see him on the streets in 2026. She's the same way.

[B]

Who is this? Like. I mean, it's a love story in many ways, between. Because at the end of the book. Spoiler alert.

[A]

That's fine. Yeah.

[B]

She's there at the end, too. So it's kind of a love story between an incel and an activist.

[A]

They kind of get together.

[B]

A woke activist and incel kind of get together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or at least they. They've alienated everybody else, so they kind of have each other. Yeah, they. They're drawn to each other because they're the only two that are totally compassionate and committed and the rest of the world is just.

[A]

Maybe you've just solved our polarization problem. Like this should happen. Like these two radical.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like y' all should all just get together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's really. It really is an interesting. Those relationships still existing. Of course, that was. And that was the beginning of these kinds of things. So that's why he was a genius.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This only began in the 60s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For both sides of. Yeah, I guess.

[A]

But it's so Prescient. You know, we should tell people there are other colorful characters, like some of the ones that stick out of my mind. There's a woman who's a stripper who, like, is trying to put together a show where a bird takes off her clothes.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you know, there's a woman who owns a bar, and she's selling pornography to teenagers and gets arrested and all this kind of thing. There's a lot of colorful folks in this book. But let's talk about this. So this book won the Pulitzer, which is kind of astonishing. It's a piece of art in a weird way. Like, I think a lot of people might read this book, and when you read it out loud, you've got clearly a talent for delivery and all that kind of stuff. You've been working your whole life on it. It's hilarious. But I can imagine a person sitting in their room reading this book being like, this is just weird. I don't even know that this is.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of people don't like the book.

[A]

So let's talk about this book as art, because it won the Pulitzer. It's high literature. I mean, we're talking about a guy passing gas and this kind of thing, and. But at the same time, it wins the Pulitzer Prize and becomes, alongside the moviegoer, a kind of Southern Gothic, Flannery o'. Connor, you know, like, it's this whole tradition. What kind of art is this? Why is this high art, you know?

[B]

Well, I mean, I think it's because it's poetically. It's so. You know what I mean? It's written so beautifully. Like, the language, every page. Even when just now I was looking for that page. Every page I'm reading and I'm crying with laughter because here's these people, you know, and Ignatius is judging every one of them, but phrasing it perfectly. And like you said, he's a dunce. They're dunces. Everybody's crazy. And I guess it's high art in the sense that it's observing every facet of society and saying, here's why they're crazy, too, but in almost a loving way.

[A]

Yeah. And it's knowingly pretentious. Like, you know, art is high art. Pulitzer Prize or the Nobel Prize, you know, it's very. Can be pretentious. This is pretentious. But Ignatius is pretentious. I mean, you read, but it knows it. And it's amazing that it won these prizes in these circles where there are sophisticated, literary, you know, and then you get Ignatius doing. I mean, I love that about this book.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[A]

New Orleans itself is a character in this book. And as I understand it, people from New Orleans have a special attachment to this book. Part of the brilliance is tool making the city a character.

[B]

I. I never. I'd never been to New Orleans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At the time when I read it, and I. But the people in New Orleans, the language, like, I was like, oh, the mother. I mean, the mother is like a real New Orleans. And the way she talks is so funny. And she's having this conversation just a typical. It could be anywhere in the world with like, oh, my God. My heart goes out with her friend, and they're in the kitchen, and she's like, oh, my God, people got it rough. And he's like, oh, he's yelling in the bedroom. Commenting on their conversation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they probably do every day. He's like, do I have to listen to this dribble? You know? And he's just like. He's like, oh, the banality is going on. Like, it's causing you to suffer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he's read all the masterpieces and he's just screaming. They were ignoring him. Like, he's just spoiled. You got to smack that kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like the people of New Orleans are such characters in it. It's really interesting.

[A]

No, I agree. I agree. And you feel like you're there in a way that's really extraordinary when you're sitting in your room and you're writing a book that you want to be funny, that's different from, in a way, what you do. Although you have to write your stand up, you get immediate feedback, whether crowd laughs or not. I wonder if you might talk to us about what it might have been like. And maybe, you know, because you've written some books, too, to write something that you think is funny the way tool had to do. But you don't have the feedback that guys like you get when the audience is laughing or not laughing.

[B]

Well, that's why the tragedy of his life was, I feel like he wrote this masterpiece, and then he's dealing with his editors going, that part's not good. And it probably shook him. He probably wasn't, you know, confident enough to be like, no, no, that's great. I'm not changing it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's dealing with this legendary editor who's telling him the Let the. The. According to the book, the things he added was saying were just horrific.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He didn't like Myrna. He didn't even like Ignatius that much.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And he was. Just kept changing it and messing with this masterpiece.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Probably just hit something in him. Some people don't like this book.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And maybe it hit something in him where he felt like, I'm be. Who knows? But I'm just saying that that's the problem with dealing in a. You know, without. I deal in the public, so I know whether it's funny pretty fast.

[A]

Yeah. You get immediate audience gratification.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like.

[B]

Or audience rejection.

[A]

Or audience rejection. Yeah. And he was getting feedback whatsoever. And so you think that might have been part of what led him to have this kind of crisis? The author tool.

[B]

Yeah. I think the fact that he's getting feedback from this legendary editor who's telling him not. You're not that good.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, do you. Do you find the process of being funny in print or having to try to be funny in print different, More challenging, less challenging than, say, on screen or that kind of thing? Because you don't have gesture. I've seen you walk back and forth and you, you know, you do all these kinds of things and it's almost acting some of your one man shows. You don't have any of that when it's just black on a page. And so I'm just curious about that. That challenge and how that's different, how you might approach it.

[B]

You're the only one that's ever accused me of actually being theatrical in my shows. Everybody else goes, what did you move around with? Your monotone, you mutter, you mumble. So. So I appreciate that. I wish that was the general consensus, but. But yeah, I mean, no, the. What's the question again? It's.

[A]

It's something like the challenge that would. That tool would face. Having only black and white and none of the props. You sometimes have a set behind you, like when you did this American Constitution. Like, you don't have anything like that. And so I'm trying to think about the comedic writing process and how you would approach having to be funny in black and white versus on screen or in front of, you know.

[B]

Well, you're right. I mean, it is definitely. To read something off a page and laugh is like really amazingly. Yeah, you're right. I guess it's the cat look. When the characters are funny, it's like the same as a movie. When you're watching a movie, it's not stand up. Stand up is the words. Yeah. But more. I mean, still people's reaction or whatever you're acting out. But it's the words. But in a movie or in a novel, if the. If you're not interested. I used to always say, like, if I see a movie and Jim Carrey's in the movie and it's this man going to sit at lunch. You're like, oh, God, we gotta sit through the lunch seat. But if it's Jim Carrey, you know he's gonna do something funny. Even though it's the exact same lunch table that anybody else would be at.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's the same with the novel. It's like what Ignatius. Like when Ignatius. Anybody could go to a. He's passing the flower show, right. Anybody go to a flower show and insult the ladies, which is already funny. Like minding your business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody's asking you. It's like they do. Some ladies are doing like an art show at a. Outside of. And there's all flowers and Ignatius like, oh, my God, how dare you ladies do this? He starts attacking them, going, that looks like that. You call that a chrysanthemum? And she starts attacking specifically every bit of their artwork. And they're like, sir, leave. This big fat monster comes and just starts attacking them. And the way he does it, like you said, it's a funny. It's funny if anybody who's a half a bum, crazy looking fat guy goes and starts yelling at people trying to put a flower shirt. But the way the language he uses, the specificity and the way. And his haughty manner makes it a high art, like you said.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. In the manner of perception that a standup comic has and I think a great writer has, are somewhat similar. You just talked about the kind of specificity with which tool rights. It seems to me standup comics notice things about the world that other people don't see and that they're able to then inflate that on stage and point it out. And it makes it hilarious because it's something somebody else who's less perspicacious didn't see. And so great writers are that way too. It's a lot of times why their love relationships don't go well. Their wives, their children, because they're watching them constantly and they're using some of that, you know, in their work and they're seeing things and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'm trying to understand the kind of similarity between a great writer and a great comedian with respect to how they see the world.

[B]

It's similar in that when you're listening to a comedian say something about a subject that you know about or Reading a novel. And you go, oh, yeah. Like it was sort of in your mind. They're not telling you something you didn't have a glimpse of. They're just articulating it.

[A]

Yeah. With clarity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And with.

[B]

But you more fully when they say it. You go. You wouldn't laugh or identify if it wasn't something you kind of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you get busy. People are busy. Yeah. I mean, they're going through life. And then when somebody goes, wait, what about that? You're like, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It still happens to me all the time with comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Somebody says something like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Past that a thousand times.

[A]

Yeah. Is a sense of humor cultivated and trained, or is it something you're just born seeing the world in a way that gives this to you?

[B]

Well, I would say that it's probably the same with novelists, but it's like some of the greatest, funniest people that could have been great comedians if they did the. The dirty work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? But it's a. But it's a hassle if I always tell people I said, if I knew it was going to be this hard to be a comedian, I never would have gone into it. It seemed like the easiest job in the world to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought you just get up, play games, talk. I was funny. I made my friends laugh, come out. I didn't know what a nightmare this was going to be, how much work you have to put in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like. It's like my whole life sitting here writing. My. My laptop is filled with documents. My papers are insane. I didn't want it to be like that. I wanted the. I wanted the easy road. That's why I wanted to stand up.

[A]

So there is a lot of work in it. Oh, God, cultivate.

[B]

Especially when you get older, because when you're young, you just go on stage. There's something fun about a young person. Charm, you know, they got that energy. When you get old, you got to bring real content because people like, what's this old bastard doing? He better be saying something funny. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you think Confederacy of Dunces would appeal differently to women than it does to men? In other words, it's a very masculine centered novel. Like Ignatius is a guy. There's this like, masturbating going on. He. You can imagine a man like you and me reading this and being like, this is hilarious. You can imagine a woman reading this and Being like, this is disgusting. This says something about humor that I don't quite understand.

[B]

Oh, no, I, I, I don't. From my life, which is, you know, based around Confederacy. All the people I know, women love it. Oh, do they? Oh, God, they love. A lot of, A lot of people don't like. Most of the people I know that didn't love it were men.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Women love the women I know that have read it, love it.

[A]

That's probably because they see Ignatius in every man or something.

[B]

Like, men don't want to be. Well, they're just like. Yeah, just the pomposity and the. But he's not just a. You're not. Like I said, when I read it, I'm laughing half at the fact that this audacity of this guy bothering some women that are doing an art show like these. They're like soccer mom, for lack of a better word, doing this art show. So he comes and attacks it, but the way he does it is non threatening. You know, he's not physically violent. You know, he's not a violent guy, but he's just so specific. And at the end you sort of like, he's probably right about what he's saying about their painting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they have the ego to go out and put their art thing out, display it like it's a show. And he's so, he's so. He's half right and half insane with everything in the book. Yeah, half of everything he says is correct.

[A]

Yeah, I, I've, I've talked on this show before about humor. We did an episode with Richard Dawkins on PG Wodehouse. I don't know if you're familiar with PG Wodehouse. He's a famous British comedic writer.

[B]

I've heard the name. That's about it.

[A]

One of the things that comes up there is that Wodehouse is a master of making very high things like the British aristocracy into like slapstick low. Hilarious thing that kind of happens here. Ignatius is a great scholar, a man of, you know. And then it's sort of made into this vulgar low thing. You do this because you take subjects like the American founding Constitution, political polarization, the history of New York, intellectual subjects, but kind of make high things into funny things. And I wonder if I might. Is that deliberate on your part? You're attracted to that? It seems to me.

[B]

Well, no. I just feel like if you're gonna. Anything you do in comedy, you have to clarify it. So it clarifies it for me. Like when I did the Constitution Show. I did it because I was like, why does everybody love this constitution? It's only four pages. It's kind of vague. It's not, you know, I mean, it's. It's sweeping. It's general. It's not vague, but it's general. And then I started breaking it down to myself, and I was like, oh, they're sitting there. They're drinking the whole time. They're trying to figure out how to get along. They hate each other's guts. They. They have nothing in common. And so they're trying to figure this out. And everyone's got their little, you know, problems with philosophical problems with the whole thing. So that's. So it is a little. It is that. Yeah, it is. People that are not these. They were brilliant people. Yeah, but they're not. These great people. Yeah, they're brilliant, but they weren't great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way, the movie. So. Oh, yeah, the book comes out that John Belushi, originally, they're like, john Belushi's the biggest name.

[A]

It's kind of perfect, actually, isn't it, for casting? You don't think so?

[B]

All right. I think that's me. A big. A big fat English guy, like six, five.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Nobody like Pete. There's a name, Peter usinov from the 1960s. He would have been too old for it.

[A]

Could John Candy have done it?

[B]

Well, it's funny you said that. The next name they start throwing around is John Candy.

[A]

Okay, well, who.

[B]

John Candy. That's not bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

John Candy could have done it. You're right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Then they start thrown around all these other names. So Steven Soderbergh, who's from New Orleans, gets the right to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I ran into him one day. He was with a friend of mine, and I'd never met him before. And he goes, I know. I've tried to make it. It's not meant to be a movie. He goes, trust me. It's just not meant to be. I've tried it for years. He knew what I was. I knew what he was talking about. Confederacy. I ran into for two minutes the first, he said one thing to me. I go, thank you for saying that. This guy did everything to make it happen. So why is it not meant to be a movie?

[A]

Why? What is it? You. I mean, what do you think it is?

[B]

I think it's something bigger than any of us could understand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then this bartender, who I knew, singer, bartender, the comedy seller, Michael. He writes a. He goes to me, hey, I know you Love. Confederacy of Dunces. I've written six episodes of, like, a streaming series of Ignatius. And I was like, oh, God. I mean, you know, come on, what are you doing? You know, you're gonna. First of all, you're a singer. You're not a writer. A comedy guy. I read six episodes. He wrote. It was a masterpiece. It would be a great series.

[A]

Series.

[B]

He wrote it, this kid. It was a. It's great. But that was a couple of years ago. We tried to get it around me and my other friend, but it didn't work. No, nobody. You know, getting people to make things, you know. Yeah. Unless you really have real juice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You think it's not gonna happen. But. But it was a masterpiece.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've run into every. Over the course of my life. I'll see some. I saw somebody yesterday walking down the street. I go, ignatius. Just these big, monstrous, oversized, crazy people I saw just yesterday. And I've seen about 20 of them in my lifetime where I'm like, ignatius.

[A]

Yeah, there he is. That's why I think it'd be the movie or the miniseries would be better today than even 10 years ago. Like, because what you and I have talked about, this is our.

[B]

This is kind of the world.

[A]

You know what I mean? It's the world in which we live.

[B]

And this guy wrote it. Yeah, he wrote the streaming episodes. This. This would be the way to go. But, yeah, you know, if you have. If you're really interested and you have millions of dollars, contact me. I'll contact him. You can go talk to him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he. He did it. It was amazing. I read it. I go, oh, God, I didn't want to read it. Just like Walker Percy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, I don't read his version. Right, right. I'm going.

[A]

The word of the day is picaresque. This is the genre of Confederacy of Dunces. It's a genre in which a kind of low and down and out hero goes on episodic adventures. So some examples of this would, of course, be the Confederacy of Dunces, but the most famous would probably be Cervantes, Don Quixote, where you have this character who is chivalric, but who goes on episodic adventures that are hilarious. And comedy is often a big part of picaresque novels. Another famous example would be Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn, where Huck is a kind of down and out character with a sort of ancient moral center who goes on episodic comedic adventures, picaresque. So, you know, the past five years Comedy's had a tough time of it. There was a period of time in which it almost felt like we weren't allowed to laugh. I'm curious if you think those times have passed now and if things are kind of lightening up and comedy is returning to its rightful place in our culture.

[B]

Look, I mean, comedy, there was a time when that was happening. There's another reaction against it. But sometimes, you know what I mean? Like, I just. I believe I like comedy to be insightful and intelligent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, that's what I like. And I'll tell you exactly what I think happened with comedy as far as when it became cancelable or whatever. Right. People that normally wouldn't go to comedy clubs, that would not want to be interested in comedy clubs, suddenly they're at comedy clubs right here. So they're like, hey, I hate this. So they're watching on their phone. They wouldn't have been at a club.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But they were at a club. So I think that affected a lot of. So there's things that are. Of course, there's things that offend me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But too bad that's not the way. That's not the way we decided to do it here. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just because it offends you doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Because things offend me. There's things I don't like, even in comedy. I'd love to say, hey, but, you know, I mean, that's not the way we play here.

[A]

Is there a line that you. And you said you were offended by certain actual comedy, although you don't think of Corey, we should be clear that those people should be canceled or not permitted to say what they're going to say. But what is that line for you? I'm curious, that, you know, starts to make you feel uncomfortable.

[B]

I mean, you can't. You can't. You don't. You know it when you see it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'll give you one example, which is an old example, but it's like, if somebody's in the crowd, let's say you're at a show. Let's say it's parents and the daughter and her boyfriend.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if somebody starts getting sexually graphic, asking questions about the daughter with the boyfriend in front of the parents, I get offended by that. Yeah. It just makes me like, well, why are you doing that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I mean, I understand comedy clubs, you know, you. There's no line. I'm not allowed to. Nobody's allowed to say what transgressive is, but you know it when you see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When a whole room goes, oh, that's wrong, then you should take a hint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you can, you can do whatever you want. But I'm just saying, what I personally don't like is stuff like that. Yeah. When you're making people uncomfortable for the benefit of the rest of the crowd, to me, that's just, you know, I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's like low life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Behavior.

[A]

It's something like belittling or insulting an individual human being in the. In a crowd of others.

[B]

Well, belittling and insulting a human being in a crowd of others is a big part of comedy. So I can't, I can't deny it. That's fine. But I mean, I always quote this guy. I quote this guy, Jack Simmons. He goes, folks, come on, it's comedy. Somebody's got to get hurt.

[A]

Yeah. Somebody's got to be made fun of. Yeah.

[B]

But if it's bully, like, if that person starts trouble with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you don't belittle them, people get mad because that person represents everybody in their life that bullies them.

[A]

I see.

[B]

So. But if it's just some nice person that's trying to, like, enjoy. Like, sometimes people ask that question, he says one thing and they just kill him. I'm like, come on, man, give the guy a break.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like I said, it's all these lines that is so movable that it's hard to. That's why they. That's why it's not up to anybody to say this is it. But sometimes you just got goes, that's just wrong. And you just feel it as a human being. But it can't be like a policy.

[A]

Quick lightning round. You can answer these as quick or not quick as you want, but do you have a favorite non comic writer? We've talked a lot about comic writing, but do you have a kind of, you know.

[B]

Well, this guy is obviously my favorite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, but that's only one book.

[A]

And it's comic, you're saying, you know.

[B]

Oh, non comic. I mean, Charles Dickens, Shakespeare. I mean, Shakespeare's Shakespeare's got it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. What about Charles Dickens?

[A]

That's good. Too.

[B]

Funny, though. Yeah, he's pretty funny.

[A]

Shakespeare, you like that.

[B]

But Dickens, Shakespeare, who doesn't like.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, non comic. Eugene o'. Neill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's not funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's not funny at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Every time they put his Play on. You can see one guy's like, I'm gonna make this one funny. No, not working. Right.

[A]

You said in an interview I heard that basically all TV shows are the same. There's, like, somebody you know, you can talk about why that is. So I'm curious to hear why is that the case? And then do you have a favorite TV show?

[B]

They're all the same because it's just like they're putting out this, like, imaginary world all the time. That must have been a recent interview, because they're putting out an imaginary world and it's a, It's. So there's. It's the most cautious society under the guise of being the most edgy, Right? Yeah.

[A]

So they're boring. And so with that said, do you have a TV show that you think does it? Right.

[B]

No, I mean, I mean, I, you know, I like everybody else. I love the Sopranos of the Wire and those kind of shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But those shows were just, you know, they were specific in the characters, but even they were cautious in a certain way. But they were great. Yeah.

[A]

Who's the funniest person in show business today?

[B]

The funniest person in show business. I mean, but I, I, it's hard to say, but I mean, like, you know them when you see them. Like, take somebody like Peter o'. Toole. Like, Peter o' Toole was just funny. And there's no, like. I mean, I'll tell you, some of the funniest performances I've ever seen was Kevin Klein in a movie called Soap Dish. I've been obsessed with this my whole life. And by the way, Kathy Moriarty was in Soap Dish. She was hilarious. But Kevin Klein in Soap Dish, this is a stupid little obscure movie. Not stupid. I loved it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Kevin Klein plays. And I was just on the phone coming out of here talking about Matt Dillon in Something about Mary.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

I mean, these performances are really hilarious.

[A]

Right, Right. Is there. I went on the Internet and it told me that your peers often refer to you as a comics comic. What does that mean? And do you like that?

[B]

I do like it because it's certain comics from when I started, the comics loved me, the audience hated me.

[A]

What's the difference? Like, what is the, what are the differences?

[B]

Money. There's not enough comics to make a good career out of this audience than there are comics. Yeah. The comics loving you is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For your ego, but it's not, it's not good for your career.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I mean, from the day one that comedians used to Come up to me. I would be bombing. And the comedians go, you're great. That's the only thing that kept me in comedy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Could America benefit from a better sense of humor now, do you think?

[B]

Well, I mean, America could always benefit from a better sense of humor. The problem with America's sense of humor, and I hate to say this because I live in this country and I love it, is they don't understand irony all the time. So if you go to even Canada, and I say some things and I go, oh, yeah, I wrote that as a joke originally, but being here all the time, I forgot it was a joke. It seems like a setup.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Canada's making you look unironic. You happy? Never mind England and Ireland, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Best heckle you've ever had thrown at you.

[B]

First of all, there's no such thing as best heckle. We don't.

[A]

Most memorable heckle.

[B]

No, no, I'm not going to encourage. We don't encourage that kind of behavior. Because if you say best heckle, somebody's going to be like, I'll come up with a better one. He likes those. I'm going to impress him. You're not impressed because we heckles, we're going to be putting you down and trying to do exactly that belittling we talked about. We want to. We want to ruin. Not your night, we want to ruin your life. We want to leave you with one remark, the heckles. One remark that sticks with you for the next 30 years.

[A]

All right, so you are among the. I want to say this is a compliment. You're like the first real New Yorker I've ever met. And by that, I mean I'm in the. I'm here all the time. These people come out here from la. They're doing their job. They're kind of coming to New York. You are a real New Yorker, born and raised.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I really appreciate that. I hear all the time from. I used to teach at Princeton, live in New Jersey. You're the first real Texan I've ever met.

[B]

So I know you've got the accent and everything.

[A]

Birds of a feather on that. So what is the funniest thing about living in New York City?

[B]

I mean, I have a whole. I have a whole special about us. But one of the funniest things in the special is how people, you know, what other people think is rude, we think is polite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, if you go to a store and I'm waiting online and you're ahead of me, and you go to the guy. How are you doing today? Oh, that's good. And you go into a long, slow conversation. I guess the funniest thing is we're always. We'll always have to pull up short because people in front of us not from New York are waiting. They're taking their time. They're looking at the subway turnstile before they go through it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're just like. Like, you never stop until you die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just. On a. It's a constant motion until you drop dead. And it almost has to be.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, last question. Best food in New York.

[B]

I mean, there's so many places, obviously, pizza. Obviously. Joe's Pizza for a slice. You know, I mean, you know. You know, it's a very underrated. I mean, I don't know the best food. I mean, I do know the. The Comedy Cellar. The Olive Tree is underrated.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

They've had hamburgers for, like, 40 years. I feel like they're as good as any hamburger in the city. And they're cheap and so. And their wings are famous, but, I mean. But I feel like the hamburger is, like this underrated thing, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Colin Quinn, thank you for being on.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me.