Arab Aramin, Robi Damelin, Liora Eilon, Mohamed Abu Jafar — Turning Unbearable Loss Into Ground of Shared Life

Summary

On Being with Krista Tippett

Episode Summary:

Turning Unbearable Loss Into Ground of Shared Life
Guests: Arab Aramin, Robi Damelin, Liora Eilon, Mohamed Abu Jafar
Date: March 12, 2026

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Overview

This episode gathers four extraordinary members of the Parent Circle – Bereaved Families Forum, an uncommon community of Israelis and Palestinians who have lost loved ones to the conflict. Host Krista Tippett joins Robi Damelin, Arab Aramin, Liora Eilon, and Mohamed Abu Jafar in an intimate, deeply honest conversation about the alchemy of grief, the painstaking transformation of pain into the possibility of empathy, and the forging of unlikely, resilient friendships. The panelists share personal journeys of loss, rage, and ultimately, courageous commitment to dialogue and co-existence, offering listeners not only stories of devastating trauma but also rare glimpses of hope, healing, and the ongoing work of social repair.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Parent Circle: A Community Grown from Loss

[00:00–06:30]

• Tippett introduces the Parent Circle as an “extremism in a life-giving, heart-opening key,” a place where “unbearable loss becomes ground of shared suffering and possible reconciliation.”
• Robi Damelin describes her journey: losing her son David to a Palestinian sniper, and how looking into the eyes of a Palestinian mother was “the beginning of a pilgrimage.”

  "Literally, the Parent Circle overtook my life... it gave me a reason for being." — Robi Damelin [04:21]

• The Parent Circle’s message, she insists, is urgently global: “when I see the hatred and anger... I have to do something to make a difference.” [05:50]

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Personal Stories of Grief and Radical Transformation

Arab Aramin

[07:00–13:52]

• Arab lost his sister Abir at age 13 when she was killed by Israeli soldiers. Initial feelings were of “rage and a desire for revenge:”

  “Instead of thinking about what I'm gonna do, how I'm gonna play, I start thinking, from where can I bring a gun and how can I use it... to kill all the Israelis who killed my sister.” — Arab Aramin [08:23]

• Seeing his father (Bassam Aramin, once a fighter, then a peace activist) resist the urge for revenge led Arab, over years, toward empathy and understanding.
• Arab describes learning the other side’s pain: “It took me seven years to make peace with myself… when we know each other, when we talk to each other, it takes us to very far places that we will never think about.” [11:05]

Liora Eilon

[16:14–28:59]

• Liora lost her son, Tal, an emergency responder, during the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack on Kibbutz Kfar Aza.
• She shares the harrowing 35 hours she, her daughter, and granddaughters spent in a safe room, while her house became a field hospital and Tal was killed protecting others:

  “There’s no words to describe what we went through, really, no words... But we did stay alive. Unfortunately, my son didn’t survive.” — Liora Eilon [20:33]

• Liora’s resolve to remain true to her values:

  “I remember saying to myself... I’m not going to let the world change me. I know who I am. I know my values.” [23:30]

• Her granddaughter, Gali, showed resourcefulness, guiding Israeli soldiers by phone and map during the siege; yet, Gali is “very angry” and not in a place to join the work of reconciliation. [27:38]

Mohamed Abu Jafar

[28:59–39:13]

• Mohamed lost his brother Ahmed, killed by Israeli soldiers when Mohamed was 14.
• His initial response was denial and numbness. Later, he channeled his loss into becoming a nurse, led by the ethic of helping all regardless of “religion, race, ethnicity or nationality.” [32:24]
• He joined the Parent Circle only years later, beginning with deep skepticism and resistance; it took three years before he could share his story aloud within the group.

  “I wouldn’t imagine meeting with Israelis because there is no reason to do this... They are killing us.” — Mohamed Abu Jafar [33:30]

• Mohamed describes the transformative power of the Circle’s youth summer camps—where, after initial suspicion and tension, encounters with shared stories “bring more empathy... the breakthrough happens.” [39:50–42:23]

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On Truth, Trauma, and the Work of Healing

[42:28–53:51]

• Tippett introduces the concept of “deep truth,” citing physics—a truth whose opposite is also likely true—to capture the conflict’s complexity and the possibility of simultaneous, contradictory realities.
• Robi reflects on being “tested” to practice what she preaches, especially around issues like prisoner exchanges:

  “It’s all the time. Looking at yourself to see: do you really mean what you say?” — Robi Damelin [44:17]

• She notes the freedom that comes in “giving up being a victim” and the vital role of friendship and laughter among members:

  “The minute you give up being a victim, you become free. And I'm nobody’s victim.” — Robi Damelin [48:08]

• The group describes the trust and empathy forged within, even amidst great pain and radically different narratives.

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Facing the World: Dialogue as Activism

[53:51–56:57]

• The reach and demand for their dialogue programs has skyrocketed post-October 7; the Parent Circle developed virtual tools to offer empathy-building encounters in schools and on campuses.
• Robi insists: “You cannot sit at home, self-indulgently being depressed. Just get up and do something.” [54:54]
• Arab cautions Americans against importing the conflict; instead, he urges listeners to “please don’t be pro one side… support justice and humanity and dignity for both sides.” [55:00]

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Closing Reflections: The Ongoing Choice for Humanity

[56:33–63:10]

• Panelists share what keeps them on this arduous path:
  • Arab: “We have every single reason on earth to keep killing each other, and we don’t. So if we can do it, everyone should. Everyone can.” [57:54]
  • Liora: “When I choose over and over… to tell my story… I do it because I believe that once I tell you my story, you bear witness, and there is a lot of responsibility in that.” [58:28]
  • Mohamed: Expresses gratitude for listeners “willing to hear our stories” and stresses the work is for the future—“for the kids in Israel and Palestine that are now living hell.” [61:40]
• Tippett closes with words from poet-theologian John O’Donohue, honoring their choice to cross thresholds of suffering “so worthily.” [63:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Robi Damelin:

  “It’s not a local message. This is an international message.” [05:50]
  “It's a sense of freedom. The minute you give up being a victim, you become free.” [48:08] “Who will give solace to other bereaved mothers if not Leora? If not me?” [46:54]

• Arab Aramin:

  “It took me seven years to make peace with myself and to get out of the door, as my father told me back then.” [13:31] “The first option, it’s very easy, to kill people or to die. And the second option, to talk to your enemies, to let them know that you are just a human being.” [12:25] “Please don't be pro one side. By doing that, you're just killing us.” [55:00]

• Liora Eilon:

  “I’m not going to let the world change me. I know who I am. I know my values.” [23:30] “When I tell you my story, I'm actually ensuring myself that I'm still me.” [59:22]

• Mohamed Abu Jafar:

  “[The summer camp] starts the first two days, people want to go home. And we end the summer camp at 3am, me forcing physically the Israeli kids to get off our bus because... they won't leave the Palestinian kids. And this is the transformation.” [41:28] “What gives me hope now? Seeing people like you coming here to hear our story and willing to hear our story. And I hope you will continue doing this… for the kids in Israel and Palestine that are now living hell.” [61:40]

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Timed Guide to Major Segments

• 00:00–06:30: Introduction to the Parent Circle and Robi's journey.
• 07:00–16:14: Arab’s story—loss, rage, journey away from revenge.
• 16:14–28:59: Liora’s story—October 7 attack, loss, resolve to stay herself, her granddaughter’s role.
• 28:59–42:23: Mohamed’s story—loss, nursing, reluctant journey to dialogue, power of youth programs.
• 42:28–53:51: On deep truth, trauma, meaning, and the radical practice of empathy and friendship.
• 53:51–56:57: Dialogue as activism, what international audiences can uniquely do.
• 56:33–63:10: Reflections on bearing witness, the responsibility of listeners, sustaining hope for children and future generations.

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Core Takeaways

• Rehumanization is radical: Sharing suffering and listening, even (especially) across lines of violence, is a profound act.
• Dialogue is a discipline and a choice: It is neither easy nor painless, but opens otherwise unimaginable possibilities.
• "Don't take sides—take responsibility": The guests plea for outsiders not to import or amplify hatred, but rather to support organizations working for peace, justice, and empathy.
• The work is slow, ongoing, often lonely—but necessary: Stories must be told and heard repeatedly, both for healing and for hope.

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For Further Exploration

• Learn more: theparentcircle.org
• Original conversation: Search “No More Taking Sides” in the On Being feed
• Action: Listen, bear witness, and support the work of NGOs promoting reconciliation across divides.

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This summary captures the heart of the conversation, the personal stories, and the invitations extended from participants to the world: to hold complexity, meet pain with listening, and choose actions—small or large—that humanize and support shared futures.

Transcript

[A]

A few months ago, I was invited to sit with four people sharing a very different Israeli Palestinian story than that which comes to us in headlines. They are members of the Parent Circle Bereaved Families Forum, a very special community. It's composed of hundreds of Palestinian and Israeli families who, despite having paid the highest price of the conflict between their peoples, choose to metabolize their loss as ground of shared suffering and possible reconciliation. I'm so delighted to share that conversation with you. Now you will hear their various stories of a transformation of perspective and path. You'll hear me invoke a notion of deep truth from physics that is vividly with me in this time. Terrible ruptures and escalating violence are part of the truth of what we see ourselves capable, but they are not the whole truth and not the inevitable future. Courageous experiments in healing and transformation are also a truth of our time. In a packed room in New York City, I think we all felt like we were witnessing something unimaginable. If you only judge the potentials of humanity from the extreme actions that shape what we call the news, the Bereaved Families Forum is extremism in a life giving heart. Opening key. We left that room and may you leave this listening feeling a little bit healed ourselves with a hopefulness become more magnetic and more reasonable. I'm Krista Tippett and this is on Being. This event was hosted by the American Friends of the Parent Circle Bridge Bereaved Israelis and Palestinians for Peace. My conversation partners were Robi Damlin, Arab Arameen Mohammed Abu Jafer and Leora Ilon. Leora, who lost her son in their kibbutz on October 7, 2023, is one of the newest members of this group. We were hosted at an extraordinary private art studio and living space in Manhattan.

[B]

So I first steeped in the Parent Circle Bereaved Families Forum in the early 2000s. So Ravi, we were wondering when that was in 2006, you and I and Ali Abu Awad, another member, met in a hotel room in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

[C]

and it was freezing, were we.

[B]

I don't remember that. You warmed me up. It was a conversation that has stayed in my heart and that just, it seems, has continued to quietly ripple through the world. And I have to say that on October 7th and ever since, I have wondered about all of you and how you are doing and how you are experiencing and what wisdom you have for us.

[A]

So I was very delighted to receive

[B]

this invitation and I'm honored to be here. And Ravi, I remember, you know, I still remember you telling me, sitting With Ali? Yeah, with Ali. Both of you received a visit from Yitzhak Frankenthal, the founder.

[C]

From Ishak Frankenthal?

[B]

Yes. And I remember Ali saying that it was when he went to a meeting of the parent circle. It was the first time he had seen an Israeli crying. And I remember you and he had lost his brother Yusuf to an Israeli soldier. You lost your son David to a Palestinian sniper. And I remember you saying you went to a meeting and looked into the eyes of a Palestinian mother and understood that you shared the same pain. And you have said that that was the beginning of a pilgrimage.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

How would you describe what that pilgrimage is about?

[C]

Well, literally, the parents circle overtook my life. You know, it gave me a reason for being. I was thinking the other day how grateful I am that they found me, and how grateful I am to have been a catalyst in change, in people who were filled with hatred. I just played a small part in them giving up, hating and how extraordinary my life has been and the opportunities and the extraordinary people that I've met along the way. So for me, this is like. It's not a pilgrimage. It's something that is so rewarding. It is for me. On October 7, for instance, this was another catalyst for me to start working more than ever. It was almost the same as when David was killed. It was this drive for me, surviving is to work as hard as I can to make change. And this is the eighth time that I've been to America since October 7th. And I'm quite an old bag by now, so, you know, it's not so easy to travel all the time. But I've been to India and to England and to Germany and to Italy several times since October 7th, because the world is so polarized. And it is more important than ever for this message to be heard, because it's not a local message. This is an international message. And when I see the hatred and anger and when I see the importation of our conflict, which creates that anger and creates that fear also, then I have to do something to make a difference. And if we have the opportunity, we'll talk about programs that we actually created for American people. That's never been our real aim, but it was so important to because of the importation of our conflict. So if we have a chance, I don't know, we have a short time to talk, and I usually talk too much because I'm very passionate about what I do.

[B]

Yeah, you have a lot to say. Well, what I want to do is touch into the life and the voice of Everybody up here and then circle back around to some of around for some reflection on how we can take what you have to teach, how we can take that into this world that we share, this world of crisis. Rob, I'd like to go to you next. On January 16, 2007, you lost your beloved sister Abir. She was 10 years old and she had just gone to school that day.

[D]

All of you can hear me, you know, because our way, it's non violent, so I can't shout that much. And I would love to stand on my feet and to look at your eyes, but forgive me for that. I was born in East Jerusalem on 16 January 2007. An Israeli soldier shot and killed my sister Abir in front of her school. She was only 10 years old and she's the third sister in the house. I'm the oldest one. I'm going to try my best not to talk a lot because also I love to talk too much. So what happened to me back then? I just lost my sister. And that's what I know. And you know, we are as human beings. If someone got a slab so he want to take even it's nature that's a human. And that's what I wanted to do. And especially in the age, in the age of 13, I was 13.

[B]

You were 13? I was going to ask. 13.

[D]

I was 13.

[B]

And you were filled understandably with rage and a desire for revenge.

[D]

Yeah. And actually, you know, instead of thinking what I'm gonna do, how I'm gonna, I'm gonna play, I start thinking from where can I bring a gun and how can I use it in that age to kill all the Israelis who killed my sister. And especially in that age, I wasn't know there is a human being the other side. Because I have never met as a humans and the other side except the Israeli who standing on the checkpoint searching me, searching my family or my people. So after a while or after two years of what happened to my sister, I went with my father to Buchenwald, one of the death camps in German. And my father did his master on Holocaust. And also my father, he spent seven years in jail. He got arrested when he was 16 years old. So I had a long journey with Bain. And I have a lot of challenges and conflict inside of me because my father, in 2005, he was one of the creators for Combatants for peace. And in 2007 my sister, she got killed. So I was looking at my father as an example and I thought, and I wanted in that time that my Father will go back again to the violence that he started in his life. But he didn't.

[B]

So, you know, I want to read something you said about your father

[E]

in

[B]

2016, the Israeli Palestinian Memorial Day ceremony. You told a bit of this story of how you in fact went behind his back. You knew that you wanted a different path. And you said, I found the light to guide me on a dark path. It was the light that God had given me in his grace through a man whose humanity is hard to put into words. My father, Bassam, a headstrong warrior who spent seven years in the Israelis prisons. He taught me to see the past and always aspire to life. And indeed, he triumphed over his guards with his steady smile, his thundering tranquility. I love that. His unshakable pride and unwavering modesty. He taught me that I am not a man who kills. And that vengeance is the way of the weak and cowardly. We shall not take revenge. We will fight for a noble cause.

[C]

We will.

[B]

We will fight for life and not for death.

[D]

So, yeah, these words back then, it didn't touch me that much, but the pain more than words. But, you know, every day that I was growing up, I was feeling and learning more from these words until I made a my enemies. And then my enemies became not enemies anymore. And that's after I learned about their history, their pain, their suffering. And that leads me to learn more about my history. So it's very important to know when we know each other, when we talk to each other, it takes us to very far places that we will never think about. And I was full of hate, full of revenge, full of anger to the other side. Because also back then I thought we are the only people who is losing people. The other side, no human, so they don't die. And when I start to hear stories like Ruby and Leora and a lot of families from the Israeli side. So I confused myself more and more. And also by the time I start finding out a lot of important things, witches, I start to lose hate for the other side and I start to lose fear from the other side. And it's only by talking to each other. And it's very hard, very difficult. But we have to believe that already because we live over there. So I think we know that very much over there, unfortunately, we have just two options. And the first option, it's very easy to kill people or to die. And the second option, to talk to your enemies to let them know that you are just a human being. So it took with me Seven years to make peace with myself and to get out of the door, as my father told me back then, right?

[B]

To make peace with yourself. You know, you began that memorial remark by quoting Rumi, who said yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.

[D]

Also back then I wanted to change all the world, but I couldn't. And I still have a lot of energy and I'm trying my best to change the world. And also I knew I have to change a lot of things inside of me. So after that I can open the door and get out. And it was something that I can touch too on the ground. And that happened with my best friends. I called my father a cheetah for my family, for my people, for my sister blood. Because back then he was talking to those Israelis and. And bringing the Israelis who was coming to my house to support the family. And for me it was something else. So after the beast that I made with myself, I didn't want people to call me a cheetah. How I did to my father. And I started that with my best friends. He used to call me a cheetah. So I wanted also to save my best friend from losing his life by throwing stones or just hating the other side without understanding that there is a human the other side. So I wanted to take my friend with me to some meeting and I could and I did that. So also he was a hater for the other side because of some drama happened to him and he wasn't understand what I'm doing. So after he heard what we're talking Israelis and Palestinians, the next day he started to speak with the two Israeli girls. And I thought the reason the beauty of the girls, but it wasn't the reason they said something. And he wanted to know more about why they thinking like that. And it leads him to became one of the people is very active in combatants for peace and especially in the demonstrations in the streets against occupation with those Israelis. So I could open one eye and one eye could open a lot of eyes. But T T T things take time.

[B]

Okay, thank you, Leora. On October 7, 2023, you lost your beloved son Tal Hamas attacked your community kibbutz Kavar Aza. And many people were killed and several people were taken hostage. And I've listened to you speaking about this place, this kibbutz where you raised your children. And it's very striking because you also taught civics and history and managed the kibbutz. And you were really. It was very close to the Gaza Strip. And as you said, you were neighbors. This changed in the last few years, but for much of your life, when you were raising your children, it was a very special place. That's hard to imagine now, but would you just describe that to us?

[E]

Well, kfaza is about 1 mile away from the city of Gaza, maybe a mile and a half away from the city of Gaza. And back then at the 80s, there were a lot of people working in, in the kibbutz in Kfaraza. We were going there, buying bicycles, eating hummus. You know, all the cliches that used to say about the neighborhood between Gaza and Kfara Aza. It all stopped in the year of 2000, 2001, right after the second intifada began. And there were no more connection, no more people working in Kfaza. But they always remained my neighbors. I never forgot that. And my children always knew that their neighbors behind the fence. And even though the fence is closed and we cannot reach one another, they're still there and we're still here. And soon enough I joined an NGO called the Road to Recovery. And I drove sick Palestinians to hospital in the country or from the hospitals back to the border, Mahsom Erez, near the border with Gaza. And I always considered myself a peace activist. I mean, that was very clear to me that there are people behind the trends that deserve to live a normal life, to raise their kids the same that I can do. And on 7 October, the Hamas invaded Kvaraza. About 300, between 280 to 300 people invaded the kibbutz, killing a lot of my friends, family, whole family, children, adults, elderly people. My son was the commander of the first respond team, and he was out there fighting them, but he had no chance of surviving against so many terrorists. But, but.

[B]

And you were locked in the. Your safe room for 35 hours?

[E]

I was in my safe room with two of my granddaughters, with my eldest daughter who came to visit and my youngest son who came to visit because it was a holiday. And all five of us were in the safe room from 6:30 in the morning on Saturday until 3:30 at noon on Sunday, the day after 35 hours, by which both my son and my daughter were holding the handle of the door of the safe room because it cannot be locked from the inside. Through all that time, there was a lot of shooting and

[B]

it sounds like grenades, hand grenades were thrown at the house.

[E]

My house at a certain point became field hospitals for the unit of Tuvdevan soldiers who were wounded while fighting the terrorists, and they were all brought into my house. Two of them were already dead, unfortunately, and one of them died after 13 months of being in the hospital. Four others survived their injuries, but my house became a field hospital for them. While the tourists are still trying to throw hand grenades into the house and soldiers are treating the wounded ones, and while their friends are shooting, smashing all the windows in my house and shooting out to prevent the terrorists from coming in or throwing hands into the house. This. It was a horrifying time. It was. We were terrorized. We didn't have any food, no water. I'm not going to tell you the details about what we did. Instead of going to the restroom because we couldn't leave the safe room. There's no words to describe what we went through, really, no words to describe what we went through. But we did stay alive. Unfortunately, my son didn't survive. But I do need to tell you that the last thing he did just before he passed away with another bullet that he got that killed him right before that, he managed to call the commander of the civilian defense team of the next kibbutz, which is a religious kibbutz. And it is sort of a miracle that they answered the phone because it was a holiday in Shabbat. But he did answer the phone. Fortunate for that kibbutz. And my Santal told him that there are a lot of terrorists in Kfaraza and that he should get out his defense team and spread them all over the fences and lock all the gates. And in that kibbutz, which is less than 1 mile from Kfar Aza, nobody was injured and nobody died. So my son, in his last action, managed to save a lot of lives. And there is some comfort in there.

[B]

I mean, his grief is very fresh, and that trauma was very large. Did you already know about the bereaved families for him?

[E]

Of course. Yes, you did.

[B]

And when did you know that this was the path you would take right away with your grief?

[E]

Right away on the bus. I remember on the bus that took us away from the kibbutz to another kibbutz, to the hotel where we stayed. I remember saying to myself that the entire world around me has changed forever. But I'm not going to let the world change me. I know who I am. I know my values. I remember that. I remember talking to myself about that, telling myself that I'm not going to change. I've known the parents circle ever since 2012. Yes. That's when I joined the narrative group, which is a dialogue group between 15 Palestinian educators and 15 Israeli educators. And we met for many for five or six times by which we had a dialogue meetings and we went together to Lifta to learn about the Nakba and we went together to Yad Vashem to learn about the Holocaust. And I knew by then that I knew about the organization. But I remember that on the Shiva of my. On the first days of my. After, right after the funeral of my son, people from the parents circle came to visit me. And I told them right then and there, I'm with you, I'm with you.

[B]

One thing that has struck me about you is you've said that throughout your lifetime, in all these decades, you had this clarity that one day your grandchildren would ask, what did she do in this land of conflict? And it sounds like when you were in the safe room, as you said, two of your granddaughters were having a sleepover with your inner home and one of them was actually somehow had WI fi and was helping people both in Gaza and in Israel. And now you're going on tour with your granddaughters and it feels to me just like this story of the father, you know, that your granddaughters also were this light for you and that you are this light for them.

[E]

Well, my granddaughter is, she's very special. I mean through all those 35 hours, what she was doing is, was she was texting a soldier that came into the safe room to ask us where they are because they just got into the kibbutz, a place that they've never been before. They never knew the kibbutz, they haven't been there and they didn't know their way around. So what she did, it was Saturday, 12 o' clock when he entered the safe room, just after they brought all the injured people into my house, he asked us, where are we? Where do we go from here? And she just stood up. This 15 year old girl, opened a Google map, told him, give me a phone, put her number in his phone, and starting sending locations to him of people that were hurt, that needed ambulance, that needed care, that needed evacuation, that were wounded or people that we didn't hear from for the last couple of hours. And we didn't know what went on with them. And from that moment on, Gali, who was 15 years old, was the commander of the Duvdevan elite unit of the idf because she was sending them places where to fight and where to go, because she was sending them locations to his phone, telling him where, where to fight, where to go. And it's incredible what she did and

[B]

she's very brave and she is. She understands the decision you've made to join the Brave Families Forum. Is she also part of this?

[E]

No, she is very angry.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Yep. She's not there at all, but we're talking about it. And I know that she needs time to recover, to heal.

[B]

Is it her father who died?

[E]

Sorry?

[B]

Was it her father who died?

[E]

Yeah, her father has died. And she was 15 when her father died. And they were very, very close. She always, she says every day, she says that he's the only one understood her. And because they were very much alike, Tal and her, they were both very ginger, very with a lot of energies. We recently moved Tal's body back to Kfaraza because we buried him somewhere else, because we couldn't bury him in Kfaraza. And now, two years after we reburied him, another funeral, another trauma, even harder than the first one must tell you. But on this second funeral, Gali, his daughter, said that she still feels that nobody can understand her better than her father. And she misses him a lot. A lot.

[B]

Mohammed, on October 24, 2002, you were 14 years old and you lost your 16 year old brother, Ahmed. He was killed by Israeli soldiers. You did not join the Bereaved Families Forum. So this was 2002 until many years later, 2016, is that correct?

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

But you did decide to study nursing coming out of that experience. That was your initial and initial response of that terrible grief. And why was that?

[F]

First of all, it's so emotional for me to speak after Leora, because this is the third time I heard her story. And it gets harder every time I hear a story. So, yeah, About my brother. When I lost my brother, I didn't know that he is gone. I was 14, so I saw people crying. I didn't. I thought, you know, he will come back. As always, it was very hard. Maybe after one week, Bibru started to talk to us about the incident.

[C]

And

[F]

I started to understand that there's a lot of people saw him. And when I saw his body, I saw him sleeping. So I was 14. I've been in this denial, you know, state for weeks. The more that I heard about the story from, you know, every time I met a new person, he told me I was in my window looking at the incidents when they shot your brother and stuff like this. I understand more that how could people,

[D]

you know,

[F]

saw someone injured and didn't want to help them or, you know, didn't try. I know that 12 people tried to help my brother and they got injured from bullets, fragments, because the tanks were. Was shooting around his body.

[B]

So he couldn't. He couldn't get the aid he needed. The medical. He couldn't get the medical aid he needed.

[F]

Yes. And during the years from 2002, 2006, when I graduated high school, I was thinking, you know, and looking about this, like, about getting aid for injured people. And when I decided to study nursing, this was one of the reasons I studied nursing and the nursing school. There is a code that everyone wanted, you should help regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or nationality.

[D]

And

[F]

one of the things that they emphasize on that even if your son is really so injured, you should help regardless to what the situation is. And I was thinking that for me, it's okay to do this, because this guy, even if I saw him as a bad person, he deserved to be treated. Then after that, you know, there will court judge, not me. I will not decide that these people will die or live. So this was my thought about this, but back then I didn't know Israelis. So it was like plain medical ethics, nothing related to religion or political right.

[B]

And then it sounds like you attended your first bereaved families forum meeting after a sarcastic kind of exchange with your mother. It wasn't something that you chose or expected to take seriously.

[F]

Yes, I think it was for me, living under occupation my whole life, seeing the Israeli soldiers everywhere, as I always said, like the white troopers in Star Wars. So I don't know the people. I just know this figure that I hate. It represent injustice, it represents killing, it represent everything bad, I would imagine. So I wouldn't imagine meeting with Israelis because there is no reason to do this. Why I should meet with them. They are killing us. And this is the thought that I held because I thought, it's meaningless to go in this bath. It's like time wasting. It's a pro bono things people do to continue with their life and giving it meaning. So this was my idea about it. I know my mother was active as a feminist, as a woman, that woman leader in our community. And I know that she met Israelis as his role. Her role, sorry. And when I came back home, 2016, from my work, I found two Israeli women sitting in our room. And Ruby insists she's not the person that was in our house. Yes. Okay, maybe it's me. Maybe I see all the Ashkenazi Jews as the same.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[F]

The eyes. Yeah. So I don't know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you tell a story about being at that meeting and I don't know. One of the first Israelis to introduce himself said, that he'd served as a soldier in the west bank and that itself was too much for you, and you left the room. Someone, one of the facilitators, Said he would order a taxi for you, but asked you just to stay while the taxi was coming. But something shifted for you. What shifted for you in that. That time? Waiting for the taxi.

[F]

I was waiting the taxi. And he told me, you have an option to join the next activity. You are not obligated to like to share or to talk about yourself. Just listen. There is instance translation. They speak in Hebrew and we speak in Arabic and there's a translation. So I told him, I am not afraid and I can join. But this is after that, he ordered the taxi and told me, the taxi will take time to come. And he tried to convince me to stay, but as I always said, he is not my mother, so he can't force me to stay. So I went to this second meeting, as I came to the first meeting with this. I want to hear what they said, but I don't believe what they are doing. You know, it's like you go to this Broadway show with your. Your kids. You know, you're going there because you want to know why they are, you know, so mad about it. Not because, you know, they have this. I was with. This sits in my mind. And in the second meeting, they started to talk more about themselves as a human. You know, it's the first one introduction. The second one is talk more about yourself. And this guy talked about him that he's a peace activist and he was against what he did in the Cuba territories and he's against occupation. And we Palestinians and Israelis should live together, you know, ending the occupation, the west bank and Gaza, and living as neighbors. So this was my breakthrough. The first time that I realized that this person is a human being. And my emotions when the first time he talked about he served in the army was because I think they are mocking us, like bringing us here to. To make us listen to them and, you know, to force us to understand their stories. But no one is understanding ours. And I usually not as speaker. It took me three years to talk about my personal story. In the barren circle, I've been active, I've been going to all activities, but I never talked about my personal story. And it took me three years. And this is why I found I get emotional when I hear Leora speaking because it's very difficult.

[B]

It struck me as I was preparing that our world and its media is so good at demonization and dehumanization. And all of these stories are about rehumanization. You also run the summer camp?

[F]

No, I used to run the summer camp here in dc.

[B]

Now you're here.

[F]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, but you said that gave you hope.

[F]

Yes, very much.

[B]

Even after October 7th?

[F]

Yes, we did the summer camp after October 7th. And me and Ruby were sitting where they decided to do the summer camp with. You know her name. I can't see her. She will get mad. So, yeah, so we decided to do the summer cap. Even though it was difficult the year before, it also was very difficult. And Ruby knows that. How we got the license two days before summer camps.

[B]

Who's coming? Who are the children?

[F]

Yes, we have 25 Bosnia, 25 Israelis aged 14 to 18 and from west bank and Israelis from Israel. Everywhere in Israel. And the summer camp is usually one week. And we start with activities to introduce in smaller groups. We have three smaller groups to make it more intimate that they will feel that they belong to the group. And this is what we do also in competitions. So the smaller group will be together, so they feel that they are belonging to the same group. And it needs time, it needs trust from each other as kids. And it's always the breakthrough happens after we did in the second and sometimes in the third day dialogue meeting, we bring one Palestinian, one Israelis to talk about their loss. And after that becomes the breakthrough, they will now continue their discussions, but now with more empathy, with more active listening. And I think we always start the first two days of summer camp. It's like a war soon, you know, but without violence. People crying here, people crying here. We don't like this, we don't like this. We hate food, we hate what we saw. Everything happened. And when we did the dialogue meeting bring Blasinos release as a role model, everything change. Now people be more compassionate, there will be more empathy, and they now will see the others as a human being. So we start the summer camp with the first two days. People want to go home. And we end the summer camp at 3am Me forcing physically the Israeli kids to get off our bus because we are late, because they won't leave the Palestinian kids. So this is the transformation. Sorry. Yeah, this is the transformation that we are seeing in the summer camp. And if this didn't give hope, I don't think anything will give hope. And this is what always bring hope to my heart. And this is also one of the reason that this year I have less hope, because I wasn't in the summer camp to take this dose of hope.

[C]

Okay,

[B]

so, you know, I was thinking,

[A]

I've been thinking a lot in these

[B]

years in the life of the world about a notion from physics, which, of course, is the study of the bedrock nature of reality. And there's a notion in physics of deep truth, which is something different from kind of surface truth that can be debated by facts and arguments. One of the definitions of deep truth is that its opposite is also likely true. I think looking at the conflict and the trauma and the geologic layers of trauma that all of you come from, I think the most logical thing in the world and also the truest thing, is that it is so, so, so, so, so beyond complicated. And all of you have a story and, you know, other people who are living this reality, this deep reality, that rehumanization completely shifts the way someone moves through the world. Ropi, I'm also aware that, you know, you. What did you say, you came to Israel in 1967 after the Six Day War, thinking you would be there for six months from South Africa, where you

[C]

grew up jumping from the frying pan into the fire, right?

[B]

But I wonder how I know that for you, what do you say? Things take time, right? I know that for you, the South African experience of unimaginable, improbable, peaceful transformation is with you. I wonder about that, how that shapes your perspective, Everything.

[C]

You know, it starts off, what's your first act of social justice? Mine was to steal a horse that was being beaten at the age of five. You know, if you look back into your past, what created you to be a survivor in the good sense? Not. But you were talking about truth. And I was just thinking how often we are put to test to see if we really mean what we say. You know, just now they wanted to free prisoners to bring the hostages back. This is the second time, because the first time was with Gilad Shalit, that I said, you have to free the man and kill David if that will bring this soldier back. And so this time, again, you know, it's again, testing to see if you mean what you say. And I wrote this op ed about the fact that they have to free. I don't care if they free this man. I think it's more important the sanctity of human life. So there's all these truths that you looking to yourself to see, do you really mean what you say? And the other day, Arab sent me a message to say that they freed Thayer with this last exchange. And, you know, I sat back and I thought, do I care? The truth is no, because maybe it's even going to Be easier for me because I've been trying to meet him for all these years and it hasn't happened. And then I got another mail to say that, that he hasn't been freed. And I don't really know if it was or it wasn't. So that's the truth of looking at yourself to see do I mean what I say? It's all the time. And looking at the violence that's happening in Gaza and the disaster. When I listen to Leora, I cringe with the thought of being in a safe room, but a not safe room at all for 35 hours and the tests that you're put through to see. And just sitting at home. And the rockets, for instance, when Isha's doorbell rang, I jump. All of us are in trauma and this is going to take time. But the role of the parents circle now is so important because who will give solace to other bereaved mothers if not Leor? Me?

[B]

You know, when I. When I sat with you and Ali all those years ago, I had the same experience I'm having now with the four of you, which is the friendship between you, right? The incredible care that you have for each other and you've heard each other's stories numerous times and how you. You've taken those stories into your bodies, into your being. There are these really defining qualities of this community, of the brief families forum, of the forum, the parents circle, that the world doesn't know how to take seriously, like the force of friendship, the danger of fear itself. I think, Roby, you're also getting at that. That can often unsettle what we think we believe. Of course. Also I think you've spoken about the bridge of laughter, right? And even though you have all suffered profoundly, and I felt this even when I walked backstage when I arrived, there's a lot of joy in you and in each other's company.

[C]

I think it's a sense of freedom. The minute you give up being a victim, you become free. And I'm nobody's victim. And yes, I think laughter is one of the main qualities that keep you continuing. Arab's father is a very good friend. This is like above. The conflict has nothing to do with it. If you could hear what we say behind closed doors, you will be rather shocked. But it is. When I said I was grateful right in the beginning, I really mean that because this has given such meaning to my life and meaning for the loss also. How would I ever. Would I ever have done the things that I've done over the past 20 something years. It's a gift. In many ways, it's a gift. And how many thousands and thousands of people do I know who know about David and how many parents are there who never have the opportunity to tell the story of their child, of their loss? And by the way, I wanted to tell you that that program, that interview that you did, I have met people who actually remember that interview. And I mean, recently. It's extraordinary.

[B]

It was memorable. I think he was speaking of laughter. Do you remember there'd been a documentary film, and one of the things we talk about is how everyone smoked the entire time. But I think you had stopped smoking when we were sitting at the L. A and he didn't know this, and he called you a traitor. And then you both said, if Israelis and Palestinians were dependent on each other for their cigarettes, peace would break out immediately.

[C]

Right. If Palestinians had to come to Tel Aviv to buy the cigarettes and Israelis to Palestine, then there would be peace.

[E]

I don't know.

[B]

Does anybody else want to say anything about just these human, I don't know, friendship or laughter or fear?

[C]

It's also trust.

[B]

Trust, Yes.

[C]

I can tell you that on the 9th of October, after all of us had listened to our own media, meaning that Palestinians to theirs and us to ours, that's a parallel universe. And we had our first staff meeting. We have two offices, one in Bejala and one in Tel Aviv, in the west bank, that is. And I was terrified of what was going to happen at that meeting. And we sat and it was an extraordinary meeting. There was so much pain and so much anger and so much fear also, but yet everybody sat and listened with empathy, even if we didn't agree. And we never stopped working from that day. That's extraordinary.

[B]

It's extraordinary and it's a story that we all need to hear, because we're not hearing that story.

[C]

I know, but if you listen to Leora, this is the stories that have to be told. And we are doing, you know, because of what happened after October 7, thousands and thousands of people turned to the Parents Circle for us to come and give dialogue meetings. It's a bit ironic, actually. Perhaps they should have given us hope, but nevertheless, we came to Washington, to Georgetown University, and they've been our mentors for many years, and they created, together with the Parents Circle, a wonderful program, which is online education program that can. It could be almost like you were sitting in the room with two people from the Parents Circle. And this was our answer for many, many campuses and schools. It has been endorsed by the Teachers Union Federation. And I think that's a way that we can get to masses of people that schools can use this. They can. Tomorrow we're going to a school. What's the name of the school?

[B]

I can't say.

[C]

Yes. I can't say those fancy words. So, you know, we're going to spend the whole day with the parents, with the teachers, with the students, because this is a way. And we had to have a UNI national meeting first because the Jewish students were worried that we would say something that would be threatening for them. Listen, I can tell you this is very lonely work. This is what?

[B]

Sorry.

[C]

Very lonely work and becoming more and more lonely. But it is incredible to watch. If you go into a campus that is very angry and you say to them, this is the first time that Palestine has been on the map for so many years. Why don't you do some research and look into all the NGOs in Israel and Palestine that are working to end the conflict. And you can pick one. It doesn't have to be the parents circle. I mean, it's nice if it is, but it can be Women Watch Peace, it can be Combatants for Peace. It can be where the two. Where there is together to morally support them. Then you will make a difference in my life and in Arab's life. You can wave as many flags as you like, but it's not going to help us. I think it's the art of how you talk. I warned you that I talk a lot.

[B]

I know you. You have a lot to say. And in this room we are going to be able to continue the conversation over dinner. I think maybe just as we wind down, let's just have. You know, I think you, Robby, have just given us a lot actually. About what that we can take away and continue to work on in ourselves. And maybe ask the rest of you, what can people in this room do? Or people who will listen later when we put this out as a podcast,

[C]

you know, we were in a synagogue. Was it yesterday or the day before? I never know. She remakes us work you can't imagine. We were in a synagogue and there was a lot of hair, our color. Like Leora and I. And I asked them to please promise that they would tell their children what they'd heard at this meeting. Because people don't know. You have to talk. You cannot sit at home self indulgently being depressed. It doesn't help anybody. Just get up and do something.

[D]

I want to repeat myself again. As I once said.

[B]

Grab that microphone.

[D]

Sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I have to be a little bit violent. Violent violence. I have to use violence. I mean, by shouting. I said that once in New York University to the students. So I'm going to say it again here to you guys. I think you have more than enough problems in your own Americans, and we don't need you, and we don't want you to bring our conflict to your own. And we need your help very much. And also by just the abyss or the sick fire that happened by Mr. Trump, So we can tell that America has that power to change back home. Your voice, it's very important for us and your support, too. And I think the most important way that you can support us, Palestinian and Israelis, that please don't be pro one side. And by doing that, you're just killing us, both of us, Palestinians and Israelis, we need your voice very much to support justice and humanity and dignity for both sides, Palestinian and Israelis. And thank you so much.

[B]

That peace, finding that peace within yourself, that changing yourself, what would you say about, I mean, obviously this is a massive question, but what would you offer about that process of getting that clarity inside yourself, which is important to know that what you are doing externally is actually, as you say, aligned with what you want to be.

[C]

The giving up, being a victim, actually,

[D]

from one to one, it's different the way how you deal with it and how you think about it. But I think it's very, very important to every human being on Earth to know that. And I love my father about it because I learned a lot from him, my hero, my father, he used to say that we are killing each other for Jerusalem and we are losing our souls and kids for Jerusalem. And in the end, both of us, we are living under Jerusalem and Jerusalem even don't know about us. So it's very important to love Jerusalem and to live on Jerusalem, not under it. And be it something that you can make with yourself to yourself and something it's so far away from us right now, and also it's very close to us. And why I'm saying that it's a very good example for you guys that we have every single reason on earth to keep killing each other, and we don't. So if we can do it, everyone should. Everyone can.

[E]

LEORA well, for me, when I choose over and over every time, again and again to tell my story, which is always hard for me to do, I do it because I believe that once I tell you my story, you bear witness, and there is a lot of responsibility in that. And when we all tell you our Stories, you bear much more responsibility, and that is your role for me. Because one of the reasons that I do tell my story over and over again is because after the trauma that I suffered, I still need to know that I am who I am. Because I. I'm busy rebuilding myself, getting out of the trauma time and time again and again. I need to be sure that it's still me again. And when I tell you my story, I'm actually ensuring myself that I'm still me. Okay. So this is one of the reasons that I do that. And when you listen to it, this is the most meaningful thing that you can do for me. But not only for me, for the organization. Because we still are who we are. By telling you everything that happened to us,

[B]

Muhammad, you get the last word.

[F]

I will die. You are what?

[C]

You get the last word. Not the last wound.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. Okay. Ladit ma to say. You can say the last thing.

[F]

I know.

[C]

Are you thinking.

[F]

But I feel pressure because this is the last thing.

[C]

Okay. Doesn't have to be great.

[F]

Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

She'll have the last word.

[F]

Okay. So it's very difficult to continue doing this. Also to doing this every day. It's a challenge. And even when Robbie was asking me about. We were talking about Sara, if he's in the list or not. She told me Arab sent her the list, and I checked the Arabic website about the list, and I told her that he's not in the list. And this is one conversation from thousands of conversations that you weekly have from people in Israel and Palestine and what they are suffering. And being here in D.C. and hearing all of this kind of words is so difficult. So I always think that I have now a new baby and.

[C]

But look at the new day that you've got. On Monday, starts his first job as a registered nurse in the eu in Washington, in Georgetown.

[B]

And you have a new baby. Yes, of sorts.

[F]

She want to take me out of my depression mood, but yes. Thank you. Yeah. So what gives me hope now? Seeing people like you coming here to hear our story and willing to hear our story. And I think this is a big thing that you take your own time and you use this time to hear our stories. And I hope that you can use this, because I am telling you, it's the hardest thing to do. I know for Ruby, it's something less harder. But it's very hard for her also to talk about her story time and time again. And I really appreciate that you're coming here and helping us to amplify this and appreciating the work that we are doing. And I hope that you will continue doing this if not for the four of us, for the kids not in the summer camp, for the kids in Israel and Palestine that are now living hell. And they know why your granddaughter is feeling like this. This is the normal way to feel. It's not her fault. She didn't do anything wrong. The situation was wrong. And I hope that everything will change because the kids are the future and we shouldn't be the people that let them down.

[B]

I just want to say again what an honor to sit with you again will be and to meet all of you. A wise poet and theologian and philosopher I once interviewed, John o' Donoghue spoke of thresholds and that every life is full of thresholds where you cross over from one way of being into another. Some of them we choose, many of them we don't. The ones that define us most, we often do not choose, and yet we are given to cross them. And he said, the question is, will you cross it worthily? And I was thinking about that as I was preparing to be with all of you because you have crossed this threshold that no one would ever want and that no one would ever want for you so worthily. And it is really an honor and I speak for myself and I'm sure as Shubheva, we can learn so much from bearing witness and hearing your stories. So I want to thank you for who you are in the world and what you do. Thank you.

[A]

Arab Aramim lives in East Jerusalem and speaking, speaks widely both with Israelis and Palestinians and with international audiences. Leora Ilon is from Kibbutz Kfar Aza and has over three decades of experience in education and community leadership. Mohammed Abu Jafer is from Jenin. His work integrates health policy, crisis management and peace building, and he recently completed a Master's of Science in Global Health at Georgetown University. Robi Damlin lives in Tel Aviv and is spokesperson and Director of International Relations for the Parent Circle Families Forum. She has been named as a Woman of Impact by Women in the World. You can listen to my original conversation with her and Ali Abu Awad in the On Being podcast feed. Search for no More Taking Sides and learn much more about this beautiful [e-mail] the American Friends community website is parentcirclefriends.org special thanks this week to Shiri Orion, Lior Bensvi, Terence McMullen, Izar Putkin and Claire de Mima. Our funding partners include the Hearthland foundation, helping to build a more just, equitable and connected America, one creative act at a time. The Fetzer Institute Supporting a movement of organizations that are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Find [e-mail] Kaliopeia foundation dedicated to cultivating the connections between ecology, culture, and spirituality. Supporting initiatives and organizations that uphold sacred relationships with the living earth. Learn [e-mail] and the Osprey Foundation A catalyst for empowered, healthy, and fulfilled lives. On Being is an independent production of the On Being project, based in Minnesota and New York City.