← On Purpose with Jay Shetty
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically
01:25:51
Loading summary
Transcript341 lines
- [00:00]
Chris Appleton
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
Jay Shetty
You know that feeling when you need care now, but you're stuck waiting for appointments, sitting on hold for what feels like forever just to schedule your visit. Amazon One Medical has 24. 7 Virtual Care and Amazon Pharmacy delivers meds right to you fast. No hold music required. Thanks to Amazon, Healthcare just got less painful. Lately I've been trying to be more intentional, even with small decisions like cooking at home instead of ordering out. It's simple, but it helps me save for things that truly matter. That's why I love the State Farm Personal Price Plan. It lets you bundle home and auto insurance to create an affordable price that fits your needs. It's one of those thoughtful choices that support the life you're trying to build. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. We talk a lot about alignment, mind, body and spirit, but rest plays a big part in that too. I've been thinking more about how I sleep and what I sleep on. Avocado Green Mattress stood out to me because their mattresses are made with certified organic latex cotton and wool. No chemical flame retardants, no petroleum based foams, just clean, breathable comfort. Their best selling Avocado Green Mattress comes in firm, medium or plush so you can find the feel that's right for you and wake up. Well, head to avocadogreenmattress.com today and check out their mattress and bedding sale. Avocado Dream of Better I felt like.
- [01:58]
Chris Appleton
It would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about. Chris Appleton is a hairstylist to the.
- [02:08]
Jay Shetty
Stars, including Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Dua Lipa. When did you realize that you couldn't stop hiding who you really, really were?
- [02:16]
Chris Appleton
I came out at 26 and a lot of people said to me, well, you must have already known, like, and just hit it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself when I did hair. There was this whole thing about sexuality and it's like, oh, you're gay. Being gay must be bad because people are, you know, they weren't saying it in a nice way like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay.
- [02:37]
Jay Shetty
It was you who filed for divorce. Everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy.
- [02:42]
Chris Appleton
Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid. I was going through a lot of private pain. What really helped me was not being okay.
- [02:54]
Jay Shetty
You write about the night that you tried to end your life.
- [02:58]
Chris Appleton
I close my eyes and this is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.
- [03:02]
Jay Shetty
We reached out to the kids. They sent us a note for you.
- [03:06]
Chris Appleton
Oh, my God. I don't know what to say. The number one health and wellness podcast, Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.
- [03:19]
Jay Shetty
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning in to the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Every guest I sit down with has been on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions, or even their soul. And today's guest is someone who's been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is so public and external. Today's guest is Chris Appleton, a renowned celebrity hairstylist best known for creating iconic looks for the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and so many more. Kris is the global creative director for color. Wow. Hair. And a social media Sensation with over 7 million followers. His work is regularly featured in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Elle, and InStyle. In his debut book, you, Roots Don't Define youe, Chris opens up about identity, transformation and self worth. So I want you to support Chris. Go and pre order it right now. Please. Welcome to On Purpose, Chris Appleton.
- [04:23]
Chris Appleton
Chris, thank you so much, sir.
- [04:24]
Jay Shetty
It's great to have you here.
- [04:25]
Chris Appleton
Great to finally be here.
- [04:26]
Jay Shetty
I mean, we have bumped into each other in a million places.
- [04:29]
Chris Appleton
Absolutely.
- [04:30]
Jay Shetty
Whether it's different cities or cities. Gyms in Miami, Paris, Louisiana. And I've always been an admirer of you and your work from the outside. You work with incredible people. They have so much love and respect for you. But I have to be honest and say that when I read the book, I have a different level of respect for you that came from this book because I can see you really want to help people.
- [04:51]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [04:51]
Jay Shetty
And I can see that you want to use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys. And I find that fascinating because you don't really know that when you follow someone on Instagram or. Or see them. So I'm glad that we get to pull back the curtain on your life and understand you more.
- [05:07]
Chris Appleton
No, absolutely. I Think there's so much about that that we make an assumption of people by social media or just what we see because it's surface level and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice to be able to get to know more and just know some of the magic of how things are done and how everyone else can have a part of that. And that's what I hope with the book, that people feel like they can have a part of that and, you know, help make that comeback.
- [05:27]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And it's so nice to sit with another man from England and think about the crazy journey we just realized. We both moved to the States nine years ago.
- [05:35]
Chris Appleton
I have no regret. What about you?
- [05:37]
Jay Shetty
No, me too. I love it here. It's been amazing to me. It's been so good to me. I feel like it's been good to you as well.
- [05:42]
Chris Appleton
Absolutely.
- [05:43]
Jay Shetty
And I'm a Londoner at heart, always through and through. But there's a beauty to living here.
- [05:47]
Chris Appleton
Yeah. I mean, there's so many nice things when you go home. Like, I just went back and the chocolate. I just always love the chocolate. It's a little sweeter. We have a little bit more of a sweet tooth. A bit milkier in England. Exactly, yeah.
- [05:56]
Jay Shetty
And just sort of things.
- [05:58]
Chris Appleton
I just like dairy milk. The hot milk. Dairy milk. Yeah. But I'm always. I'm, like, sitting in the stores, like, just looking at all of the. I remember pickled onion crisp and like. What's that? And I'm like, oh, my God, you don't know what. Yeah, exactly. All the things.
- [06:11]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [06:11]
Chris Appleton
But no, it's fun to go back, but LA is definitely home now.
- [06:14]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, Chris, I wanted to ask you something that I often ask a lot of guests because I think I'm always fascinated by how who we were places imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that you remember that you think has defined who you are today? An experience or a memory that you have that you feel had some coding into who you've become today?
- [06:38]
Chris Appleton
You know, it's funny you say that, because I have a very distinct memory, but for a long time it was a really sad one. But the more I've understood that memory, the more I realized it was kind of where I was at in my life. And it's sad because I guess it was a memory at the age of. It was maybe sort of eight or nine years old. And I remember looking outside the window. I come from A big family in the uk. I'm one of five. We were, you know, really working class, if not poor. You know, we didn't have many luxuries and life was real. It was. It was very, you know, different to LA and sunshine. It was quite rainy and gray. And I remember sort of looking out the window and I felt like I didn't really belong. I knew I felt different. I knew there was something different. Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports and my sisters, like doing girls things like, I don't know, they were playing with Barbies or braiding hair. And I kind of felt somewhere in the middle. I didn't really feel like I fit in. I was a middle child also. And I remember just looking out and I felt quite alone. And I think that was the beginning of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to fit in. To fit in with what I think people around me thought I should be or who I was told to be. So that memory was in one way it's very motivational now. Now I know what it meant because I can kind of go back to that moment. And I've learned that during therapy and sort of being able to like connect with that inner child which for so long I ignored. But for me, it was a real special moment that I go back to because you can kind of change that. You can change what you came from. And that's a lot about what the book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you. And it really is about, you know, we all grow up being told to be something or be someone or we have influences around us which kind of lead us into a certain part of our lives. And sometimes we stop and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we got there, let alone how we look. You know, sometimes I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short dark hair and bangs. Why? Why is that? And it's like, why this is what I've always had. I don't know, I'm like. We ever thought about going lighter and longer or. No, not really. Why not? Well, just because that's not what they kind of then stop and go. Well, why have I never thought. Because no one ever given freedom to. And a lot about what my job was about is really kind of opening people up. It's really starts on the outside as a visual, but then once you start going internal with things and breaking down these kind of boundari really quite magical what can happen. And that in a nutshell is Kind of what I've always done, gone that little bit deeper. And I guess going back to that childhood memory really helps me kind of remember that. That your roots really don't define you and you do have a chance to start again. It's never too late.
- [09:21]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's such a interesting connection that you made there because most people wouldn't see that. You wouldn't think that something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted, but it is. And all these limitations and blocks and all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about who you can become, how much money you can make, who you're meant to be in the world, and for you, you fell in love with the hair quite early, right?
- [09:44]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [09:44]
Jay Shetty
Like that was something you discovered, really. What was the discovery of it?
- [09:47]
Chris Appleton
I think it was honestly the first time I felt good at something. I was pretty young. I was maybe like 9, 10 years old at some similar age where I was dyslexic. So no one really knew what that was then. So you were kind of just told you were stupid. I remember I used to sit in the classes and I was like, please, someone answer the question. Because I did not know what he was going on about. When I sort of started to paint, I noticed I got like a reaction when I started to use my hands and do hair, which was my mom at the time. I realized you had this ability to sort of change the way people felt. I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people. I was really mesmerized by that. But I noticed people reacted different and I felt like that was almost like a superpower. So I just thought, I'm going to be the best at it. If this is what I'm good at, I'll be the best at it and I'll prove everyone wrong that I'm not stupid. And again, just being conditioned to. I mean, I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And then when I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality. And it's like, oh, you're gay? Because no one back then did hair. No one had a job at 13. And doing hair was, you know, stereotypically where I grew up. People, you know, said, okay, well, you gay? And that was before I really even understood sexuality. I didn't even really consider it. I was just a young guy having a great time. You know, when you're a kid, you just. You're free, you know, it's great. It's such a good feeling. And then the harsh reality of life slaps you around. The face one. And I remember sort of things. Bad. That's bad. Like, being gay must be bad because people are. They weren't saying it in a nice way, like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay. You know, people would, like, spit on you. And I mean, it was bad. I got bullied quite aggressively, and I think that really led me to push and I guess push away from myself. That's, I think, when the curtain started to come down and I really abandoned myself because I started to become a version of. Of myself that I thought other people wanted to see. So talk a little bit more masculine. Stand more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine. So I kind of kept it to myself, and I just kept my head down. I didn't want to tell people about it. And it's really sad because I think being a gay child, I learned to hide myself. I learned to hide the parts of myself that were authentic. And I adapted myself into being something that I thought other people wanted me to be. And as an adult, what you have to do is then unpick those parts and find out what were the parts that are actually me and the parts that I created for other people. And as much as anything, I go back to the book. Like, there is stories about my life and as reflection, but it's really about helping people get to get back to theirs and unpick it as well. Sometimes it takes a bit of that work.
- [12:29]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [12:29]
Chris Appleton
And that work can be brutal. It's not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would say the most rewarding, for sure.
- [12:34]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I like. I like the way you drew that. That when you reflect on your past, you've got to pick apart the parts that you made for yourself and the parts that you made that's such a great.
- [12:44]
Chris Appleton
And everyone has that. You know, if you grow up into a family of religion or if you go into a family of different beliefs and cultures, you tend to take them on, even relationships. You know, we look at relationships of, like, that's how mom and dad interact. And you kind of carry that throughout your life. And it's not until you get into relationships and adult and you're like, oh, you can do it differently, you know, and they're all the lessons we learn as adults. But not everyone is like, I guess, aware of that. Not everyone is aware as you can change the story and there's a real freedom to doing that.
- [13:13]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I want to go down two paths based on what you said, but the first path before we go down the other, because the other will lead to more different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is you said you wanted to become the best as soon as you discovered that you could do hair. You're like, I'm going to become really good at this.
- [13:30]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [13:30]
Jay Shetty
What did it take to become the best at what you do? Because you are. You work with the best, you considered the best by the people that you serve. What did that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories. But when you take something as artistic as air.
- [13:51]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Jay Shetty
We don't necessarily think about it in the same way.
- [13:54]
Chris Appleton
Totally.
- [13:55]
Jay Shetty
At least publicly. Even though it's such an important part of daily life that everyone has. Right. And so I want you to walk me through, like, what was that process? Like, like, what did that take? What did that look like?
- [14:06]
Chris Appleton
I think I just was so determined not to be stupid, not to be deemed as bad or different, that I really wanted to be good at something. And like I say it's kind of a double edged sword. Cause it motivated me to want to do better. And my focus really was to just get on it as fast as I could. And I just put everything I had into her. Like, I got a job at the age of 13 and I just had a salon. Yeah. And I remember my first day, I remember it very clear. I remember standing against a wall and I saw people walking one way and I saw them then walk out another way once they had their hair done. And I swear they were standing a little taller and their shoulders went back. And I was like, this is good, I love this. And I was like, I want to do that. I remember literally thinking, this is what I'm going to do. And I just learned every aspect of hair and if I didn't know how to do it, I'd find out, you know, I mean, eventually, as my career progressed and I became top sort of hairstylist, I then was like, well, what's outside of this? So I'd look outside and it's, oh, there's this thing called editorial hair and there's fashion shows and there's. And every, every kind of block was like a beginning again because no one really kind of like, if you're a salon hairdresser, you're just a salon hairdresser. You can't be a fashion hairdresser. You know, they kind of. There's people like to buckle up. Yeah, totally. It's like, you know, people Love to put you in a box. All my life people love to put me in a box. Still to today, I'm always trying to fight being put out of box. I don't know if you can relate to that.
- [15:26]
Jay Shetty
I can so relate.
- [15:27]
Chris Appleton
I think a lot of people just love to put you where they know you can stay. And I just push myself to know every aspect and if I didn't know what it was. I remember, for example, I eventually got an editorial job and they wanted a look that I just didn't know how to do. And I just got in a car, I took myself to this local salon and she did this. It was like this like weaving technique of. It's called a basket weave. And like I would sit there and watch her and just pay this woman to sit and watch. And I'd sit with her doll's head up all. I don't know, I think I just went above and beyond. I loved what I did, I still love what I do. And I just, I think that combined with, again, a bit of a blessing and a curse, like a little bit of an OCD mentality where I wanted it to be good and I could see things. I don't just let things go. I can see every detail and every little hair. And I think that can combined and just the passion to want to be good at something just pushed me. And it's funny now because it's only now I'm 42 and I look back at videos. I recently just put some things on social media because someone came from the UK with a big box of DVDs and even I forgot what I did to get to where I've got every competition I did and I didn't win and failed and every, you know, educational thing that I failed because of my dyslexia. I just kept bouncing back and the nose. I had people laugh in my face, you know, I remember eventually I got an agent and I was so excited about the next steps and they'd laugh at me. They were like, you know, you just need to stay where you are and keep it real. And they'd send me on a photo shoot for some flip flop commercial. I just would. I didn't care. I was just determined. And I think you have to have that resilience along the way. I think you really have to have that internal resilience to stay focused. And it was never one thing, it was just lots of little leapfrog moments. Everyone thinks it's this big moment. It really isn't. It's just a build But I would say one of my biggest secrets to success in that area was just to be consistent. I stayed consistent. And when I got knocked down, I got back up and I carried on. And I tried to learn by every mistake as I went along. You know, if I failed, I was like, why did I fail? And that person went, why did that person get it? And I didn't. I would look and analyze the situation and come back.
- [17:30]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [17:31]
Chris Appleton
And I think that's a lot of what it takes.
- [17:33]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice. It's also good to hear that there's no industry in which you just one day get a call from, you know, the biggest star in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and done the work. And it's good to hear about it. Whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair, whether it's music and athletes that we've had. It's. It's always that. You always hear that same story. But going back to England and talking about the derogatory use of the term gay, I mean, I went to a boys school.
- [18:00]
Chris Appleton
Okay.
- [18:01]
Jay Shetty
And I think about all the guys at my school that got so bullied.
- [18:05]
Chris Appleton
Really?
- [18:06]
Jay Shetty
Because we went to a boys school as well.
- [18:07]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's, like, fixated.
- [18:10]
Jay Shetty
And now when I look at how many guys in my school were gay but never came out until years later, some of them at university, some of them much later than that, and I'm just like, wow, they never even had the opportunity because they thought immediately that if they were to say that at our school, they were going to get bullied for it.
- [18:29]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [18:30]
Jay Shetty
And so I get how real that was at that time, especially. And of course, there are still parts of the world where that's still the case. But how early were you sure about that being part of your identity? And were you consciously masking it, or was it still a discovery of your identity? Or was it like, oh, I know that's true, and I'm going to hide it now, as you said, you had to abandon yourself, or was it like, I don't really know what that is, and I'm discovering and figuring it out. How was it for you?
- [18:57]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, I get asked this a lot. It took me a while to understand because in the beginning, I didn't know myself. I came out at 26, and a lot of people said to me, well, you must have already known, and just hit it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, like, the brain is such A powerful tool. And shame is such a powerful tool. And when I think back to that 8 year old kid, that just felt different and I had to hide it. Like I feel so sad for that little guy because I really did abandon myself and I think I just, I shut it out. I didn't even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality was I was even thinking about having sex, like so anything like that. I just knew it was bad and I just pushed it away. So I went through my life like I said, trying to just be normal. And as far as I was aware it was fine. And it's not until you really, you have these moments where you stop at life, life makes you stop sometimes. If you don't choose to stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you stop. It's an, you know, you're losing a family member, it can be anything. But sometimes you have to sit with yourself. And I don't know that I ever allowed myself to know. I never had the space to express that. And that's why I'm hoping with like the book that I can help someone that feels not seen and someone that is going through a hard time or someone that is successful but miserable when they get home because I never got that opportunity. And finding that makes such a difference. It makes a difference in the job you do, the relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally who you are as a person.
- [20:30]
Jay Shetty
I think that's what people don't realize. I love that point. Just made that it actually impacts all other parts of yourself.
- [20:36]
Chris Appleton
Expression crazy.
- [20:37]
Jay Shetty
Because it is your identity, it's.
- [20:39]
Chris Appleton
It's crazy.
- [20:39]
Jay Shetty
It's who you are. And so if you're hiding that part, you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities. I know because one of my closest friends came out when he was 30.
- [20:50]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [20:50]
Jay Shetty
And he just. And he grew up in a Muslim background and so that was extremely hard for him because of the religious pressure. And it was such a journey for him. And he thinks about who he became after that age and it's almost like everything went in his favor after that.
- [21:05]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [21:05]
Jay Shetty
Whereas up until that point it always felt like everything was working against him. But he, like you also felt that he had to hide and, you know, not be honest with himself.
- [21:13]
Chris Appleton
Yeah. I think my whole life changed when I authentically. And it took a few years to get to that point. It took therapy, it took understanding, it took being with myself. But part of that was moving to la. And I think the great thing about moving to LA was I Didn't feel any shame because I'm also a dad, and I hold that very close to my heart. My biggest focus in life is being a great dad to two kids. And any parent out there can connect to that. I will always put them before myself. The difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal. When I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I felt a lot of shame. And moving to America, the part of it that became easier is because an introduction could be like, hey, I'm Chris. And it's like, I'm gay, you know, and no one blinks an eyelid. But where I grew up, in the town where people knew me, hey, I'm Chris. And it's like, I didn't feel confident to say I was gay. And if I did, they'd be like, oh, he used to be. He's got family. He's got kids. Oh, my God. You know, and there was always this secret, this conversation. There was just this. It felt dark still. It still felt like people wanted to keep putting me back in the box. So, you know, it was kind of part of moving to America. Was the first time that I could experience what it was really like to come out without all of the outside noise because I'd already made a life for myself.
- [22:32]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [22:32]
Chris Appleton
And, you know, I get it. When there's a secret, people want to talk. People love to, you know, when. When there's a secret, people want to know the answer to it.
- [22:38]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Talk to me about that time in your life, because when you started dating the mother of your children.
- [22:42]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [22:43]
Jay Shetty
And that experience. You were married for, like, 10 years.
- [22:45]
Chris Appleton
Nine years.
- [22:46]
Jay Shetty
Nine years, yeah. So it was a. It's a. It's a long period of time.
- [22:49]
Chris Appleton
We were never married, but we were. Yeah, nine years.
- [22:51]
Jay Shetty
And committed. Yeah.
- [22:52]
Chris Appleton
Yeah. I mean, it was amazing. I generally believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together for nine years, and it was magical. Nine years. It was great. I had two kids, and I honestly thought I had it all figured out. I remember at the weekend I'd be doing. I'd be doing the Man's Day. I'd be painting the fence. I'd be, like, fixing things. You know, I was just doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do as a man. And when I did realize I was gay, I mean, God, it came crashing down.
- [23:17]
Jay Shetty
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. When you start a business, it's not just about selling a product. It's about sharing something you truly believe in. Every decision from choosing a name to launching your first product feels massive because it is. It's a reflection of your values, your passion and your purpose. That's why having the right platform matters. You need something that understands the journey that grows with you. Shopify gets it because they started small Too Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and handles 10% of all US E commerce. From big names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands like Juni, our sparkling tea company, Shopify provides everything you need to build and grow your business. With Shopify, you can manage inventory, payments and analytics all in one place, so you're not juggling multiple tools. It also makes it easy to reach new customers with built in social media and email marketing tools, helping you reach new customers and keep them coming back. If you're expanding beyond the U.S. shopify supports selling in over 150 countries. And if you have a physical store or sell at events, their award winning point of sale connects your online and in store sales seamlessly. Plus, with 99.99% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss a sale. Only with Shopify. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com j that's shopify.com j shopify.com j It's always bittersweet when summer winds down. You've had this beautiful free flowing time and now there's this subtle pullback into routine. But I actually love this part. It's a chance to reset and one of the best ways I've found to ease into that rhythm again is refreshing my space with Wayfair. Whether you're organizing your home office, upgrading your cookware for weeknight dinners, or just wanting to make your space feel more you, Wayfair has everything. I found this really cozy armchair and a few floating shelves for my reading corner and now it's one of my favorite places to unwind. And not only did they arrive fast and hassle free, they've completely changed the vibe of that corner. It's cozy, calming and exactly what I needed to feel grounded again. Wayfair's got furniture, storage, bedding, kitchen essentials, you name it. And the best part? Delivery's free, even on the big stuff. So if you're thinking about how to ease back into the season ahead, this is the perfect time to do it with Wayfair. Get organized, refreshed and Back to routine for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home Apple Gift card is the perfect gift for back to school. Send it via email or send a physical card to your loved ones. Friends and family can use Apple Gift Card to get products, accessories, apps, games, music, movies, TV shows and more. They can also spend it on in app content, music subscriptions and even iCloud Plus. Visit applegiftcard.apple.com for details and to send Apple Gift Card this Back to School season and back to our episode. What do you think it was about that moment that allowed you to be conscious that you were, like you said for so long, you were hiding it, you were suppressing it, you were putting aside, you're doing all the quote unquote things you're meant to do as a man. What was it that brought that up for you when you felt like, like you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out. Your two beautiful kids, you loved, you know, a partner that you loved.
- [27:35]
Chris Appleton
Because from the age of 8 to the age of 27, I'd held my breath and I could finally excel. I couldn't hold my breath anymore. I couldn't do it. I tried, I kept trying to and I couldn't. And once I put my tiptoes into breathing and how good that felt, I couldn't stop it. But then came the shame of like, well, I'm gonna hurt all these people I've created this life with. So I kept pulling back until I just. Just had to let go.
- [28:03]
Jay Shetty
How long did you carry that? That shame of. I know, but I don't want to tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built.
- [28:10]
Chris Appleton
Once I knew, I had an experience which I talk a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy, but I was. I sat when I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in northern England. There wasn't middle to north and it was kind of being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay pub in town, but it was on the outskirts. And the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really spoken about. Princess Diana was on the news shaking a man with AIDS without gloves. And that was headline news because, you know, they're like, could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand? People didn't know enough about it and they knew about aids and it was kind of Told to me that gay men get aids. So I was also fearful of that. Someone who's prone to ocd. Like, I just felt very conscious of that. So I had an experience that I kind of met someone. We became friends, and it never really went beyond friendship, but he told me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call, conversation daily. But I became friends with him. And it was the first time that I was kind of like, I like this guy. I really like him. And I kind of was trying to understand it. So it was a slow process. And then he told me he had hiv, and I was like, well, I can't. I'm good. I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off. And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like, oh, my God, could I get hiv? Is this a thing? I don't know. It was really, really scary. And then, I guess over the process of the next year, I think once, like I say, you kind of put your foot in the water, it was just. It was hard to go back. And then once I actually did meet someone. Yeah, that was it. There was no going back.
- [29:45]
Jay Shetty
That period of your life, I can imagine is when you look back at it now, it's probably one of the most difficult times, because it's almost like.
- [29:52]
Chris Appleton
No, it got way harder.
- [29:54]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Which we'll get to. But. But that moment of I can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know how to be honest with the people that I love.
- [30:04]
Chris Appleton
Totally.
- [30:04]
Jay Shetty
That's like a. There's one thing of, like, oh, wow, I can finally be honest with myself. That's huge.
- [30:10]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Jay Shetty
But then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people. I imagine 100. What was it like telling your partner at the time?
- [30:19]
Chris Appleton
I told initially my partner, and that was a process. And I also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief.
- [30:28]
Jay Shetty
Were you aware of that at the time when you told her?
- [30:31]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [30:31]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Wow, that's mature.
- [30:33]
Chris Appleton
Because I loved her. I really loved her. And I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to be different. I was. I went back to being the kid at school, but once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic. I told my family, and everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it, and I just had to be respectful of that. You have to let people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process. But the hardest part was telling my kids. And I think mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would. But I do feel ready. I feel ready to talk to people because I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time. But my job as a dad, I felt, was to protect my kids. Going through what I went through as a kid, being bullied was horrible. My childhood was a lot of memories are not great ones. So the idea of bringing that to my kids, it was really painful to feel that they would get bullied because their dad was gay. I know the things that kids say, and I know how mean they can be, and I just didn't want them to ever have that shame that was put on me, onto them. And in a way, I felt like. I felt like a disease. I felt like it was like a cancer. I wanted to cut it out of me. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them, because that's what they need, you know, I just. I just. I felt so selfish putting myself first. So eventually people started to talk as they do. It was a small town, and me and Kate decided to tell the kids. So I couldn't even say the words. And I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this. Initially, saying the words I'm gay is a challenge because once those words are out, it's done. I actually didn't say it. The mother of Kate's mum actually said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like 6 and 8. And they were just. They were upset because they knew I was upset and they were confused. And all of a sudden, I just felt like I'd. I felt like I just messed their life up. And I felt like I'd failed as a dad because my job was to protect them. And if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But I was the one hurting them. And I couldn't understand that. I also just couldn't hide I was gay anymore. I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them, just the confusion killed me. And my son said to me, you know, does that mean you're gonna, you know, have your. Your arm like this? Like. Because he was so young and innocent and kids at school would do. There was already things said, you know, And I was like, no. You know, I'M just me. I'm the same. I'm not gonna change. But that. Are you gonna change? Are you gonna be different?
- [33:25]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [33:26]
Chris Appleton
I kind of just shut down and I left. And I left not because I was three, but I left because I felt so much shame. And I got in the car, I drove for a couple of hours. I drove for quite a long time. It felt like five minutes. I just felt like I needed to get away from him. I just. I felt like I was contagious and I. Sorry. I've not really spoke about this before, so.
- [33:51]
Jay Shetty
You don't need to be sorry. Take your time.
- [33:55]
Chris Appleton
Yeah. So I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. And so I brought some painkillers, I brought a bottle of alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel. And the whole time I had a picture of the kids. It was like this computer case it had. And they're smiling on it. They wrote a message on was silly. It was just a little computer case, but I was just holding it the whole time. I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period. I just wanted to protect them, you know? And I took the tablets and drank the alcohol. I ran Kate. And I apologized for the pain that I'd caused. And I closed my eyes and I just thought, this is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore, you know, I won't bring any more pain and maybe I'll stop hurting too. The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff. And I just then remember being in hospital and I could hear voices. And I remember thinking, was this it? You know, where am I? And something changed then and it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore than I had. And I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I'd done everything with my power. I spent my whole life creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be and tick all the boxes. But I knew I had to reveal the truth. And so in that moment, it was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic, but I just remember thinking, well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that? And I don't really know where to begin with it and I don't know where it's going to lead me, but it has to be better than what I've been doing. And in that moment, something changed. I decided to live. And I think that's the moment where I went back to that 8 year old boy standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it all, really. So although it was one of the darkest nights of my life, I think it was a turning point. And like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I think it's not something I've ever spoken about. But I hope other people, in watching this, can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need. Or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling understanding their child to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence and when you don't get to express who you truly are, or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can really be for someone.
- [36:54]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Chris, thank you for sharing that, because it's.
- [36:56]
Chris Appleton
I just didn't feel like I could write a book talking about my story. I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media, and it looks like I have my life together. It looks like I. I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous, and from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together. But there's a very different side, and that's what I want to talk to people about, and that's what I want to help people with. And it's not just about my journey. It's about helping people realize theirs.
- [37:27]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. No, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing male suicide rise.
- [37:33]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [37:34]
Jay Shetty
We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone, even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide. And I think having people like yourself who've been there, who are open enough to share how you get there, and it's needed right now. It's needed right now. Help a lot of men, right? Yeah, a lot of people, but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well.
- [38:00]
Chris Appleton
And I think also just, like, stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in, it's like, you don't have to fit a particular mold. I think you are who you are, and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is. And I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that. And then I had to do the really painful part of unpicking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else and what was truly me when I did that. There was a piece to it.
- [38:25]
Jay Shetty
Were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital? Yeah.
- [38:27]
Chris Appleton
I mean, I don't think I ever wanted to die. I wanted to kill the thing that I felt was destructing my life. And the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls. Like, I wasn't like all the regular guys. And I wanted to not be different. Now I love being different. You know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty in being different is such a special thing. To be able to have that talent, to be different, to let it grow. And when it's not suppressed, my God, like, your whole world can change. My whole. Whole world really did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing. And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness. You know, there's a lot of successful people out there, and they're not happy. You know, a lot of people. Some unsuccessful people, and they're not happy. I think true happiness on the inside is really. I don't know, it's a really powerful tool.
- [39:13]
Jay Shetty
How did your family react to, obviously, coming to the hospital, the kids, like, now? It was almost like there was, in that time, the first shock that you're gay, and then there's this shock of nearly losing you or there being a critical situation. How did you. How did Katie, the kids and family really.
- [39:32]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, I don't think there was really ever an understanding. I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it because everyone was trying to process it themselves. I think everyone had questions, and everyone's like, well, did he always know? And, like, was that my fault? And did I say something when he was a kid? And. And when I told him about, like, gay men and sexuality? And I think a lot of people were questioning. I don't know, did they know? Did they see something? And I think everyone was just trying to process something. It didn't really matter to me in terms of, like, that was the time I came back to myself. So there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, I'm gonna allow myself to be. And I'm gonna be respectful of everyone else, and I'm gonna be supportive. Cause it's just who I am. But I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna allow Chris to be. And I'm a gay man, and that's it.
- [40:17]
Jay Shetty
And I imagine at that time the shame that had been hanging over. Obviously, the kids went back to school. They were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret now the secret's out.
- [40:29]
Chris Appleton
Totally. People love a secret.
- [40:30]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [40:30]
Chris Appleton
People love gossip. You know, I get it. Like, we all do it. Everyone loves it. Oh, what'd you hear? You know, But I think once the secret's out, people are like, oh, well, you know, it's just not as exciting. It's like, all right, well.
- [40:40]
Jay Shetty
And so you felt that kind of. You were able to move on from it.
- [40:43]
Chris Appleton
Absolutely. And listen, it wasn't an overnight sense. Of course not. It was just a mental change for me. I still had to go through the process.
- [40:49]
Jay Shetty
What was that process like? Because it's like, like you said, you bottled it up for that many years. It comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally. Shame, guilt. Thankfully, you're still alive. But what did that process actually look like? Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh, wow, one night. Just change, you know, Like, I don't want them to have that perspective either, because that isn't true from the book. And I'm excited for people to read. I'm encouraging people to read the book.
- [41:23]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [41:23]
Jay Shetty
Because I think when they engage with it.
- [41:26]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [41:26]
Jay Shetty
And you're sharing of it, they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize, like, this wasn't an overnight change. It wasn't a one night switch.
- [41:34]
Chris Appleton
100.
- [41:35]
Jay Shetty
But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild. Because you said you almost came home to yourself.
- [41:43]
Chris Appleton
Totally.
- [41:43]
Jay Shetty
But then you had to build this new house.
- [41:46]
Chris Appleton
Like, anything starting anything new, it's the unknown. And so I think I took every day as it came, every hour as it came. I've always been a big believer in therapy, and it's so helpful to be able to. And I think it's. I also think it's something that if someone is struggling, that if you can and you have the resources to, you should use, because I think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things. And I think working with therapists to try and understand, even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist. And Kate did. You know, I think everyone was on their own journey. But personally, for me, it was just every day as it came. And there were good days and there were bad days, and there were days I still felt really shameful and there were days I didn't feel so shameful. But I think, as with anything and when you're grieving something. And I really was grieving a loss. Cause I was grieving the loss of who I used to be. And so, in a way, it was like a death because I was letting go of that. I was letting go of this image that I created, this man that I'd created.
- [42:46]
Jay Shetty
And what came with that man?
- [42:47]
Chris Appleton
What came?
- [42:47]
Jay Shetty
Family.
- [42:48]
Chris Appleton
Exactly. And so then I had to. You don't have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you though, Jay. I still don't have it all figured out. I wake up every day and I'm still figuring out. I think as humans, we are. I'm grateful for that because that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if I'm growing, then that. That makes me feel happy because I'm alive.
- [43:04]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [43:04]
Chris Appleton
You know, no one ever has it all figured out.
- [43:06]
Jay Shetty
Me, too. I fully agree. I don't.
- [43:08]
Chris Appleton
I mean, people think because you've. Or because you've had some success at work or, you know, you got it all figured out. No one's got it all figured out.
- [43:15]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [43:15]
Chris Appleton
But I think for me, I've always been really interested in other people's journeys and inspiration and understanding how someone else took on. And listen, my journey is not for everyone. Everyone's different, and everyone has their own journey. But sometimes you can just take something from it. And, you know, for me, that's why I did the book was I was trying to help people come back to themselves. And I don't think I can do that if I'm not telling them my story.
- [43:41]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [43:42]
Chris Appleton
You know, to say I had a really dark moment, too. A lot of people have had dark moments.
- [43:47]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. But it's brave and important to share it. And that's one of the reasons why I've been talking about the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies. Because in the west, you have this before and after.
- [43:57]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [43:58]
Jay Shetty
So it's like, I used to be like this. Now I'm healed, I'm fit, I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would say everything's cyclical. You're always two steps forward, three steps back, 100%. You're always maintaining, you're always sustaining. You don't just. It's almost like you don't just end up with a six pack. It's like, that's something that takes daily work.
- [44:16]
Chris Appleton
And one week is there, and the next week I'm like, what happened?
- [44:19]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And that's something that's physical that you can see and it's tangible. What to speak of emotional grieving and growth and so that idea of before and after, it doesn't really exist.
- [44:30]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [44:31]
Jay Shetty
It's like before what? And after what?
- [44:32]
Chris Appleton
100.
- [44:33]
Jay Shetty
The reality is you're constantly growing, each and every one of us, and me included too. I, I think even with the work I do, I definitely carry that baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place of perfection. And it's like we're not trying to. Yeah, it's like actually I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in the right direction. And yeah, by the way, I do this as much for you as I do it for me because the more I talk about these ideas, the more, and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them and breathe them for yourself.
- [45:04]
Chris Appleton
And honestly, I feel like if there was something like this when I was a kid, when I was an 8 year old kid or 12 year old kid at school and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience probably could have saved me going in the direction I did and made other choices, you know, but that's life.
- [45:19]
Jay Shetty
I'm doing some research for my new book right now and I was researching the. I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard.
- [45:24]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [45:25]
Jay Shetty
And he told me two things that stayed with me. One was that one of his friends committed suicide even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard, but never told him anything. And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone. Even though your friend is an expert.
- [45:43]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [45:43]
Jay Shetty
And so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not easy for people to open up about these things.
- [45:49]
Chris Appleton
No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it, but I hope that in doing so that it will help someone else. And it's not to say any of the things I've done are right or wrong, but it was my journey and it led me to where I'm at now. And I think if you can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life and you know, I think someone like me, where people perceive me, to have it all figured out maybe to know that I've not and there's been some really hard times in my life enables people to be able to talk about theirs too and feel free to Be able to express them with that and that there isn't so much shame around it.
- [46:23]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it doesn't make you weak.
- [46:24]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, exactly.
- [46:25]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now, or you're struggling to pay the bills, or you're struggling to take care of the family you love.
- [46:33]
Chris Appleton
And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life.
- [46:37]
Jay Shetty
Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or.
- [46:46]
Chris Appleton
You mean like the bullies or whatever?
- [46:48]
Jay Shetty
Or bullies or even. Yeah, bullies. Family. Like anyone that you think was negligent maybe, or unaware at that time. Did you ever have any good conversations with any men as life went on?
- [46:59]
Chris Appleton
My brother actually is actually recently, we were very different. He was in a very different place in his life. And I was just a kid trying to grow up, you know, he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe 12 years. 12 years older than me. He actually met me in London. I was there for some shoot, and he said, I wanted to meet her. And I'm like, all right, well, okay. So we met and had dinner, and he actually apologized and he sat down and he said, you know, I was really shit to you. I was really shitty, brother. And I don't think I realized how much pain you were in. And I think he was in his own pain because everyone's got their own journey. And, you know, I found forgiveness in that. I found forgiveness, and it was actually really, really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally 10 years later. Like, my brother's apologizing. But I also and mature enough and have done the work enough to recognize that he was going through a difficult time. He used drugs and he was going through his own thing. But, you know, his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but I forgive you. And I think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing. And letting go and moving on. Yeah, I like to move on. I like to go right through something and then let it go. And I think that's a beautiful thing. It's brutal. It's really hard. So easy to avoid. So many people avoid stuff. Complete avoidant completely. Just let's pretend it's not happening. But for me, what works is to really feel it and sit in it, because then I feel like I can let it go.
- [48:20]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, I mean, it's really mature to have that world view of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are. Yeah, and it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're all so unique.
- [48:35]
Chris Appleton
And everyone's valid. You know, everyone's valid.
- [48:36]
Jay Shetty
Everyone's got their own journey. But to accept that requires a lot of lot of maturity and depth. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge, or making a decision that brings you closer to a long term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies. I've learned that saving for the things that truly matter, like your first home or a reliable car, starts with small, thoughtful decisions. That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with their personal price plan. It gives you the power to personalize your plan and create an affordable price that works for your life. You can bundle your home and auto insurance in a way that supports your journey and your goals. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. State this Back to School Season Spend less on your kids with Amazon I was talking to one of my closest friends the other day. He has two kids and every year it's the same routine. One kid wants a very specific backpack. I'm talking not just blue, but navy blue with a neon green zipper and a Galaxy print. The other lost their lunchbox before the first week of school even ended last year. He's like Jay, I swear they get more expensive every time they grow an inch. And I get it. Kids grow, seasons change, and somehow they always need five new things they didn't need last year. But what doesn't have to change? How much you spend on them. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Shop back to school at Amazon and spend less on your kids. Embrace the energy of summer with Pandora jewelry that celebrates who you are and the journey you're on. From sunrise adventures to sunset slowdowns, Pandora brings A touch of paradise to every moment. No passport needed. This season's new pieces are full of color and personality, from ocean charms to bright tennis bracelets and easy layers you can mix and match. It's a fun way to refresh your summer look and show off your style wherever the season takes you. I'm always drawn to pieces that feel timeless but still fun. And in the summer, I love something lightweight, colorful, or meaningful. Pandora has a great range, whether you're into bold charms or simple accents. And the fact that you can personalize pieces is in store. It's a fun touch you can engrave a date, a word, a reminder, something that captures a summer moment you never want to forget. Feel it, live it, embrace it, be love. Shop in store or online@pandora.net to discover new styles. All right, thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. How does it feel? Now that you've said it out loud and talked about it, how does that feel in your chest?
- [52:06]
Chris Appleton
Heart, I mean, probably as you could tell as I was talking, I was getting quite tight chest. If I ever even really talked about it, my chest would get very tight. I'm grateful for that. I hope I never get used to it because it was a very extreme thing in my life, and I'm an emotional guy. I love the people I love. But I've learned not to feel shame anymore. And I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it, being able to acknowledge it, being able to look at it in the mirror. And I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and hopefully others. I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people. Hopefully, you know, someone finds it interesting or can give them a different perspective on their day and in their life. And I've done that in, like, a outward sense of a visual with people. Know that with my job. But I think the internal part is just really where it starts, because when you marry those together, that's when you have your real power.
- [53:03]
Jay Shetty
I mean, as we've been talking about this, in this journey that none of us are perfect, and it still shows up. How does shame still show up in your life today? Like, how does it still have that stronghold in your life?
- [53:15]
Chris Appleton
I woke up this morning, I'm like, I cannot talk about that. I can't talk about that on the podcast. Had this complete, like, panic. I woke up this morning, I'm like, oh, my God, I can't talk. People are going to think I'm crazy. Like, that was a really dark time, and it Was a secret. It's a secret. And then I'd stop myself and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need to be. I'm not that person anymore. No one is. The people that we were in that time, we've all moved on and evolved. And I'm in a better place in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes, you know, like, you being able to educate people and share people. That's like me in my hairdressing career, learning all these amazing techniques, keeping them all to myself. And everyone has said to me before, like, you really want to show your techniques, people might copy you. And I'm like, God, I hope they do. I hope they have great hair. You know, everyone. Everyone deserves it. I'll think of some new techniques. I'm onto the next thing. So, yeah, I mean, look, we're human beings. Like I said, none of us have it figured out. But I also have great people around me that be like, chris, remember, you're helping others. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want to do, you know.
- [54:11]
Jay Shetty
As your journey grew, did you find you'd share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to?
- [54:17]
Chris Appleton
And no one really knows this about me, Jay. I think probably a lot of people might, you know, be like, okay, I didn't know that part of you, because, let's face it, in human interaction, most of the time it's a, hi, how are you? Look great. You know, can go, oh, yeah. And then we move on. We don't always open up the blinds and, you know, pull people in, because it's difficult to do that. You know, even on social media, people say to me, oh, you know, you have this Polish social media. You bring people in more. It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a camera in front of you. And I think I've always been very one on one. That's what I do. But that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in them themselves.
- [54:55]
Jay Shetty
I want to know what happened, because this was all still while you were back home in England.
- [54:59]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [55:00]
Jay Shetty
And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now. That hadn't even began then.
- [55:06]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [55:07]
Jay Shetty
In terms of the public part of it, how soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift?
- [55:15]
Chris Appleton
I stayed in. I moved to America when I was 31, so it was four years later. And during that time, I'd started to travel backwards and Forwards. I was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. I started working with an artist and, you know, they travel around. I was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work. I remember I got a call once, I was in London and I had an email, actually, that came through, and it was from JLo's team. And I remember thinking, oh, wow. But it was too much to kind of take in. I was like, jlo, it's like, are you available? You know, we wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for a Vegas show. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I thought, well, how does JLO know who I am? It was the beginning of social media, and I was posting not really know what I'm doing, but I was just posting all the different hairstyles I was doing. So I guess when I look back, my brand quite quickly was apparent. I was always changing up. I'm not your beachy wave kind of guy. I like to do a look, do the next one, move on, that's next. I was very excited by her and I was just posting all that, so I kind of thought, well, that's cool, but I'm in England and that's Hollywood. That's like the land of dreams, you know, it's far, far, far away, and they weren't going to fly me out. So I was like, all right. Well, I just left it. And I thought, maybe this is just like a. Maybe it's like a fake email. You know, you get a lot of random emails, hey, DSM, Adam, you've won 10,000. And I'm like, oh, have I? You know, I don't reply into them anymore. Before, when I was younger, I used to. So I left it. And a few months later, I got another email. I thought, well, maybe this is a thing. Maybe, like, maybe I could go to la. You know, it seemed like the big shining star. And I was like, that's where a lot of stars are. And I loved the excitement. As a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by the power of transformation. Back then, it was Madonna. You know, she would have a different look per album. And I always loved how each look, really. It started a trend. People would start to wear it in the streets, and it was like a whole vibe. So I thought, well, maybe I go to la. So I pretty much decided to do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for. Small basement one. But nevertheless, it was mine. And I packed two suitcases and I moved to. Moved to la. And without even a plan? No. And you didn't have a dream contract? No, nothing? I had a dream, man. I was like, how many followers did.
- [57:33]
Jay Shetty
You have at this time?
- [57:34]
Chris Appleton
Four or five thousand.
- [57:35]
Jay Shetty
Right, right. Oh, wow. Really early days.
- [57:37]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, really early days. But I did have a hope, and I. I thought, what's the worst that could happen? I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember I. I moved to America, and for the first three or four months, I didn't do anything. I'd spent all my money. Louisiana's really expensive. And I remember thinking, I'm gonna have to go back home. And then I got a call to do Christine Aguilera's hair on the Voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book. It was an experience that didn't go so well. It was like my one opportunity, and it seemed to go very wrong.
- [58:05]
Jay Shetty
You felt. You didn't.
- [58:06]
Chris Appleton
It went wrong to go right. I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do my thing. It's the Voice. Everyone watches the Voice, but what you have to understand is when you live in the uk, it's like this many people see it. When you live in the us, it's like the world sees it. It just was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to the Voice and there was like, three hours to do Glamour, and the makeup artist went in inside the trailer, and I just sat outside. So I was like, okay, I'll just wait for a bit. And an hour went by, and I was like, well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair, you know? And then two hours went by, and I'm like, well, maybe, like, the hair's probably done, and I'm just going to be finessing it, you know? And then the last 20 minutes before the live show, I'm like, well, I mean, should I just go home? And they called me in. So I thought, well, you know, she definitely got her hair done. It's gonna be good, right? 20 minutes. I mean, what else can it be? So I go in, and it wasn't good. It wasn't done. It was ready to be done. So she's like, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, what I really want to do is have two hours to do. Yeah, but whatever. We've got 20 minutes.
- [59:15]
Jay Shetty
Were they waiting for you to go in or. No?
- [59:17]
Chris Appleton
No, I think she was just, like, doing makeup. Probably got chatting, and there was no ill intention or anything. It was just like, whatever, you know, like, you're in the chair every day, you know? And then I went in and know. So I did that thing that hairdressers do where you start moving the hair around. Have you ever sat in a chair and a hairdresser's just kind of like. They're just kind of touching it?
- [59:34]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [59:34]
Chris Appleton
It means we don't know what we're doing. It just. We're kind of just, like, hoping something's going to happen. So I said to her, like, would you. Have you ever tried a wig? Because I thought that would be great because it'd be fast. And she's like, I don't like wigs. Of course you don't like wigs. And then I really lost myself. And I was like, why would you like anything I've got to do? Like, you see me, you see the little boy standing at the window. You see little Chris. Like, what am I doing here? I'm a joke. I'm a joke. Like, why am I. And I felt like, that shame again. And I felt small, so small. And I just had this moment. It was actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are still best friends. And she has always been so supportive throughout my career. I called her on the way, and she said to me, look, Chris, if you don't make this work, you're gonna have to come home. Cause I have responsibility. I'm a dad. I have the kids, you know? And I remember thinking, if I don't make this work, I'm gonna have to go home. So I thought, you know what? Let me do me, and if she doesn't like it, that's cool. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and do everything. I know I'm 31. I've spent my whole life learning this craft. If I don't do me and walk away, I'll always kick myself. So I said, well, you know what? You've never tried my wigs. Let's try it. She was like, all right. So put it on her head. And she was like, oh. And I'd finessed wigs. I got really good at them because I used to work with cancer patients. And all these little tricks, kind of like from one area of my life, then turned into making me good at it for stars. And so I put it on ahead, and there was no time. She was like, I like it. So I put it on. It was like, no time. She literally got up and ran off onto the onto the show, and then she's on live tv. And, you know, that was the time of social media, because I was also very nervous because, well, everyone's gonna have an opinion on this, and when it's good, it's great.
- [61:07]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [61:07]
Chris Appleton
And when it's bad, it's not. Yeah, when it's bad, you'll know about it.
- [61:11]
Jay Shetty
When it's good, it's okay.
- [61:13]
Chris Appleton
Exactly. Yeah.
- [61:14]
Jay Shetty
So it's bad.
- [61:16]
Chris Appleton
So I remember she came off the stage and it was like a little break, and she was talking to someone like this, and she looked over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig. And then just carried on talking. And in that moment, I knew that. And it was great. Like, she looked great. And then we worked together. You know, it was the beginning of my career.
- [61:33]
Jay Shetty
The wig fell off or something.
- [61:34]
Chris Appleton
It looked great. I don't want people to think I am being arrogant in telling that story because I would put so much of my whole life into my craft. I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left to right. I knew every aspect of her. For me to be able to be able to stand there and know that it was the right thing to do, I wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this was right. And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. Yeah, I tried. If I don't do what I know to be true and good, then I'll always kick myself, and I'd hate that. And I think part of my coming out story and seeing myself, my full self again was not ever letting myself not be seen. And, you know, I wanted to present as. As I was and the knowledge I knew and that was. It was a success story. And that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood. It just rolled on once people saw her hair, because we did this kind of really icy wig. And then I did these hoops in her hair. And then I started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele, and it was Jlo. And it just. Katy Perry just. Just evolved, you know, because people are like, oh, who's doing that? Oh, that's cool. You know, pop stars or artists, I like to change their hair up. So it's like, okay, so it's very fast. That was very fast. But I was very prepared because I'd spent 31 years of my life learning it.
- [62:49]
Jay Shetty
It's really interesting because I'll tell you later, I have a very similar story of. Because when I first moved out here, everyone was Asking me to teach them how to meditate or coaching them or guiding them spiritually on their life. And so I was meeting a lot of people, and our work, funnily enough, is similar, even though it's very different.
- [63:04]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:04]
Jay Shetty
It's very intimate. That it's very one on one. You're really present in someone's life.
- [63:08]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:09]
Jay Shetty
And. And I had a similar experience, but the thing I found as well was if I was trying to be what they wanted me to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how to do what I do.
- [63:20]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:21]
Jay Shetty
And that's really hard when you feel inexperienced.
- [63:24]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:24]
Jay Shetty
You feel like an imposter.
- [63:25]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:26]
Jay Shetty
And you feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt too.
- [63:28]
Chris Appleton
Totally. Which we all feel.
- [63:30]
Jay Shetty
Which we all feel.
- [63:30]
Chris Appleton
Even when you have success or whatever, you know.
- [63:33]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And. And you come and you're like, oh, no. But this is a bigger world. It's a different world, and it's different eyeballs. And then you're just like, no, actually, I have to trust the work that I've done up until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic.
- [63:44]
Chris Appleton
Totally.
- [63:44]
Jay Shetty
It just makes me experience. I've got to trust the experience I have. And most importantly, it makes me me. So I love that message from your experience there, which was, if you hadn't done the wig.
- [63:55]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:55]
Jay Shetty
It would have just looked terrible.
- [63:57]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [63:57]
Jay Shetty
Because you wouldn't have been able to do anything with it in that time.
- [64:00]
Chris Appleton
Exactly.
- [64:00]
Jay Shetty
And so you had to trust your instincts, which was my experience. Says, let's go with the wig.
- [64:04]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, totally.
- [64:05]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. That's amazing. And then obviously, you became such good friends with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite part about building these amazing relationships? Because the work is so intimate. It is so connected to them.
- [64:17]
Chris Appleton
I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with. I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence because they're amazing at what they do. You know, they're an artist in their realm, and to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful. And, you know, at Kim I've become very good friends with. I have so much respect for her. To see her up close to seeing, you know, the world sees one thing. They see Kim Kardashian. I don't really see her like that. I see as Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an amazing mother. She is a businesswoman. You know, to see what she did with skims and build that, and just to see how she is with Everyone that walks in the door, you know, she speaks to, whether it's an assistant, a lighting person, she says hello to everyone, introduces herself. She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person. Yeah, she's world class, really, really great person. And so I think organically you spend so time together with the people you work with. Obviously there's a friendship there and I'm just incredibly grateful. I've got to work with the people I do and, you know, see them in the light. I do. Because I guess not everyone does. Because again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on TV or a clip here on social media and we all make assumptions. It's what we do. It's okay. But I just feel grateful to have seen a side that maybe others haven't.
- [65:25]
Jay Shetty
And yeah, I'm sure you've done a.
- [65:26]
Chris Appleton
Lot of things all the time.
- [65:27]
Jay Shetty
What are people like really? I'm sure you get that all the time from people back at home as well, like, oh, what are people really like behind the camera? And it's. I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like, no, a lot of the people you watch, they're actually really wonderful and nice. There isn't some big conspiracy, you know, it's just, they're just wonderful humans who are really nice and they're really great at what they do.
- [65:49]
Chris Appleton
What they do.
- [65:50]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. What they do. And, and yeah, they treat everyone with respect and it. And it isn't as juicy as you want it to be.
- [65:56]
Chris Appleton
No, totally.
- [65:57]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. So with your journey with that piece, it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like, it only gets harder.
- [66:03]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [66:04]
Jay Shetty
And it feels like even though now you were having this success and that was moving fast and you have become the person you've become where you are, the go to person in the city, but across the States, for all of these people to turn to, whether they're musicians, models, talent. And then I think now it's been like just a year from your divorce again.
- [66:25]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [66:25]
Jay Shetty
And that was with a very public relationship. Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship?
- [66:31]
Chris Appleton
It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that magnitude of people being so invested in my private life.
- [66:40]
Jay Shetty
What was it like having such a public, romantic relationship as someone who, for years before that, let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man.
- [66:55]
Chris Appleton
This is the first time I've ever spoke about this. And I think people have this perception from Social media, probably, like I said it, I have it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous. So from the outside, it probably looks like I got it all together. But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain. And then you go with all the online speculation part. People say things about you, there's things in the tabloid, and people have an opinion on your life, and that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things. I think for me, what really helped me was not being okay. And, you know, I've always believed in therapy, and I work with a therapist to really sit in my feelings and really go through them and understand how I felt. And that is really brutal to go through it. But for me, coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can reflect on it and move on. One of the biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment from what I do is all about visual. It's what I've done my whole life, and even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton. But I think for me, there was a real piece in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside. And like I said, that wasn't an easy process. But I think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place. And I think, you know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life. And I think for me, I really wanted to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way. You know, that's the interesting thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion, and that's okay. I don't mind people saying good and bad things because you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to get that. But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to do that. And I'm very aware any relationship I go into, there will be a conversation around that. And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I never had my whole life, finding that and. And being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing. And, you know, you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I think you learn so much from it. I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it. I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I want to be loved, how I want to love. And that's a beautiful thing because it means you're always growing and evolving.
- [69:35]
Jay Shetty
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge, or making a decision that brings you closer to a long term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies. I've learned that saving for the things that truly matter, like your first home or a reliable car, starts with small, thoughtful decisions. That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with their personal price plan. It gives you the power to personalize your plan and create an affordable price that works for your life. You can bundle your home and auto insurance in a way that supports your journey and your goals. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. This Back to School Season Spend less on your kids with Amazon I was talking to one of my closest friends the other day. He has two kids and every year it's the same routine. One kid wants a very specific backpack. I'm talking not just blue, but navy blue with a neon green zipper and a galaxy print. The other lost their lunchbox before the first week of school even ended last year. He's like jay, I swear they get more expensive every time they grow an inch. And I get it. Kids grow, seasons change, and somehow they always need five new things they didn't need last year. But what doesn't have to change? How much you spend on them. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Shop back to school at Amazon and spend less on your kids. Kids embrace the energy of summer with Pandora jewelry that celebrates who you are and the journey you're on. From sunrise adventures to sunset slowdowns, Pandora brings a touch of paradise to every moment. No passport needed. This season's new pieces are full of color and personality. From ocean charms to bright tennis bracelets and easy layers you can mix and match. It's a Fun way to refresh your summer look and show off your style. Wherever the season takes you. I'm always drawn to pieces that feel timeless but still fun. And in the summer, I love something lightweight, colorful or meaningful. Pandora has a great range. Whether you're into bold charms or simple accents, and the fact that you can personalize pieces in store, it's a fun touch. You can engrave a date, a word, a reminder, something that captures as a summer moment you never want to forget. Feel it, live it, embrace it, be love. Shop in store or online@pandora.net to discover new styles. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion. It was you who filed for divorce, right? Like, you were the one who.
- [72:57]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [72:57]
Jay Shetty
Ended it.
- [72:58]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [72:58]
Jay Shetty
When you look at that in the perspective of the whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy. Again, no.
- [73:06]
Chris Appleton
But I think, again, like, it doesn't mean you don't learn something about yourself. And just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's a bit like going to buy a house. Like, you know, we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright, lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some people do. And that's okay. It's just not aligned. And I think one of the biggest things I realized about any relationship I've been into or go into is the importance of alignment. And I think for a long time I didn't have that. And I think finding that within myself has been special. It's about growth. And like I say, as long as I'm growing and evolving.
- [73:44]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [73:45]
Chris Appleton
Then I'm alive. And that feels great.
- [73:47]
Jay Shetty
Why do you think you didn't have that alignment? Maybe when you met and. Because it moved fast. Right.
- [73:51]
Chris Appleton
Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think sometimes it means you're hopeful. And I think any relationship I've ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart. And I have no regrets about that. I think we shame people too much for leading with an open heart. And I think the sad part about that, especially when it doesn't work out, and I think the sad part about that is you can learn to retract and protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than to never feel anything at all. And I think I'd rather experience something and feel alive than to never put my foot out in the water. And I think as long as you're growing and evolving, from it. And things don't always go to plan. I think as long as you go through it and go through the process of healing, I think that's really important, then I think you're doing all you can. I don't know. I feel like. I felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything as any situation I've ever been in. I've always tried to look back and reflect of like, do I feel aligned? I'm happy with where I'm at in my life, how it is visually and how I feel internally. And, you know, if not being able to sit in that and sit with it and process it and go through it has been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. I know my truth and I feel happy. I really value the people that are in my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really hard for my career. I love the people I've supported, family. And I'm really grateful for that. An ending doesn't mean it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended. You know, as many relationships I've been through in my life, friendships, relationships, they've ended. And I've tried to learn something each time from that experience.
- [75:33]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, I really appreciate your take on not closing off and not kind of building a wall to. And you are right, we do make people feel bad for falling in love or moving fast or whatever it may be. And I think also coming from a South Asian culture, I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce and looking at divorce as a failure or a negative thing. When actually I look at my community and I'm like, I wish this person would get divorced and this person. Because you know the truth. And when they open up to you 100%. And so it's almost. It's interesting. We. We've made people feel bad for maybe opening their heart and falling in love.
- [76:18]
Chris Appleton
Falling in love.
- [76:18]
Jay Shetty
And then we also make people feel bad for.
- [76:20]
Chris Appleton
And I get it. I get it. And people love to say, like, oh, I knew, you know, that would happen and that wouldn't last. But I don't know. It's just who I am. I go in wholeheartedly into every friendship, every relationship, you know, every family member. And I've learned to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say, I keep mentioning alignment, but it really is a key part of my healing is to be able to leave a situation when it's not right anymore.
- [76:49]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Why did it feel, again, important for you to talk about it now as part of this journey with the book.
- [76:54]
Chris Appleton
I think there's just always. I think every part of my life, if there's something in the tabloid or people want to know, I think I would like to sort of share my experience so people can relate or maybe not feel so alone. My biggest goal is to make people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from. It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got stuck in. You can move on. You can. You can evolve your life, and you can have your comeback. At any age. At any age. It's never too late. So many people think it's too late. They're not 20. They think they're done. And I think, I don't know. Some things are for a season and some things are forever. Like, that's life. Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship, whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like I said that that's just life. It's about alignment. And if something's not aligned, it's okay. Whether it's a relationship or a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in your life. I think so many people get so fearful of not moving on or change. Change is so scary to people. Change. I know by just people changing their hair, how terrifying that. Be that. Well, people are going to recognize me or people are gonna. I'm like, yeah, that's great. See a new you. See actually a you. That's. This is actually going to be great for you. You have a whole new look. You could have been stuck with that old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago your whole life. You know what I mean?
- [78:19]
Jay Shetty
Like, thank God. Yeah, thank God. Yeah.
- [78:22]
Chris Appleton
Literally, you know, it's like, if you don't know, you don't know. At the time, I bet you thought you were killing it. I straightened my hair. Why do you straighten your hair? I don't know. Because someone told me to.
- [78:31]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [78:32]
Chris Appleton
Beautiful natural texture. Someone bringing you back to that.
- [78:35]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [78:35]
Chris Appleton
Like, I don't know. It kind of helps you form who you are, Whereas maybe you conform to society because society said you should straighten curly hair.
- [78:42]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [78:43]
Chris Appleton
I don't know what the answer was, but we're all. We're all conditioned to that. Following the lead and following the pack. And you don't always have to do that.
- [78:50]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [78:51]
Chris Appleton
To not do that, you have to have some balls. And, like, I think part of finding that strength is to be able to sit with yourself. And I can honestly say, any situation now that I'm ever in. I can sit with myself and I can process it. It. And it's not always easy. In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy. But the last thing I feel like I need to do is tell everyone because it's my journey, it's my story. And when I'm ready, which is why I'm doing the book now, you can share it.
- [79:21]
Jay Shetty
How did you protect your piece at the time? Because I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it headlines. Whether you take them seriously or react or not, they still hurt. And everyone's asking, I know what it feels like where you're at. Sometimes I find that when you also have family that's not connected to the industry.
- [79:38]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [79:39]
Jay Shetty
I'll always get a load of messages as well, from back home, from friends and family going, oh, I just saw this thing about, you know, whatever I just saw. And I'm like, guys, like, I'm dealing with it. Like, you know, it's. This is normal in my world now.
- [79:50]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [79:50]
Jay Shetty
But it's not normal for them.
- [79:52]
Chris Appleton
No.
- [79:52]
Jay Shetty
And I can find that that's hard sometimes. Did. Was there any. Was there any of that feeling of that kid looking out the window, like, was that any of that coming back through this as well? Or how did you protect your piece at that time?
- [80:03]
Chris Appleton
I think there's a lot of private pain. Like I say, no one is immune to it. But I think for me, working with, like, I have an amazing therapist I've always worked with, and I am so pro therapist.
- [80:14]
Jay Shetty
Is it the same person that you worked with the whole time?
- [80:16]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [80:17]
Jay Shetty
Wow. For how many years?
- [80:19]
Chris Appleton
Maybe the last. It was since I moved to America, so nine years.
- [80:22]
Jay Shetty
Wow, that's impressive.
- [80:24]
Chris Appleton
And for me, therapy just enables you to, like, sit in it. Therapy really helps you to do that, and therapy really helps you to move on and let go of situations that, you know, no longer serve you.
- [80:37]
Jay Shetty
So it's been around two years now. Where's your headspace at now?
- [80:42]
Chris Appleton
I think I just feel grateful to have had the experiences I've had in my life and to have the knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them and let go of it and move on. And I think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful I had that each and every experience, good and bad, because it led me to where I'm at now. I think I'm in a good place. Not every day, but more so than I ever have been in my life, where I've abandoned myself and it's such an easy thing to do. And I'm just so aware of doing that now. It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself, you know how many people look in the mirror every day you look in the mirror? Maybe. I think the average is 12 times a day. They say on average, it's an hour a day from brushing your teeth to, you know, checking your hair, whatever it is, having your haircut an hour of your day of looking yourself in the mirror. So many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves. We just look, but no one actually really looks. And part of my job and my journey has been, I guess, showing people the real mirror so people can really see themselves and be seen. And a lot of people are not seen. And when you really see people and you break it down to, like, why have you always done this? Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it. Once you see the pattern and once you break it down, you can change it. That's really empowering. I did it with hair for a long time, but I didn't realize I was also doing it in an internal way. And everyone can relate to that. People saying, your hairdresser's, your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing it.
- [82:20]
Jay Shetty
That's part of it.
- [82:22]
Chris Appleton
The difference is I used to do it with everyone else, and I'd see them. And you know what? Never saw myself. I didn't see myself for 27 years of my life. I didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make other people see themselves and for me to look at myself. When I saw myself, I couldn't not see it anymore. I couldn't not see who I was and who I'd become. And that defining moment in my life changed every decision moving forward. And so if I'm a bad friendship, if I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad work environment, I'll leave it. If it no longer serves me, and if I feel like I've done everything I can to be the best person I can, and no one's perfect. Humans are messy. That's okay. But I've learned to respect myself enough to be able to go back to that little boy at the window and say, it's okay. You don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have to feel alone. You can be seen. And I hope that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of that when they read the book. And obviously it's cause your roots don't define you. It's about roots and it's a double edged sword. But it is such a powerful thing that if you actually stand and look in the mirror and look at yourself, this book is for anyone that looks back and is like, is this it? Or anyone that looks in the mirror and is like, like, I don't really know why I look the way I look. Or anyone that does have some success but it's so miserable. Or some more times just people thinking there must be more to life. Hopefully this will help people feel like they can change that and they can have that comeback and they can transform not only the way they look on the visual because everyone knows I do that. But if they can do it internally, I'm telling you now, their life will change. And I hope people can take what I learned because I feel like everyone deserves to be free. Yeah, you know, I see people in the supermarket, I see people walking in the street and I'm like, I wish you knew what I knew, you know, and. And I think it's just really special to be able to share that journey.
- [84:20]
Jay Shetty
What do you see in the mirror now? When you look in the mirror, you see yourself.
- [84:24]
Chris Appleton
It depends on the day. Some days it's all right, and other days, you know, like, I'm still like, I really should lose five pounds. Does my hair look better blonde? You know, you read a comment on social media like, you look way better blonde. I'm like, oh, my hair. Look, you know, it's all right. We all have those voices in the head. I hope they're always there. It keeps me alive. It keeps me. I just laugh at myself now. I think I try and treat most things with humor. You know, if I do see a headline about myself or if I do see someone say something, I'll try and laugh it off because what else are you gonna do? You know, it's like, I probably couldn't have done that before. If I went back 10 years, I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone crazy and been like, oh my go. But now I'm like, it's okay, it's just someone else's opinion. That's all right. You know, I can actually laugh at it. I'm like, well, you know what, I probably do look a bit like I need to lose five pounds or I don't know, I can relate to it or just at least laugh at it. We were talking about Red carpet pictures, they can make you crazy. You know, like, you think pretty good about yourself. Yeah, I'm good. You know, I feel like I look good. You take a picture. Is that what I look like?
- [85:24]
Jay Shetty
Oh, man. Tell me about it.
- [85:26]
Chris Appleton
Oh, my God. I saw this picture of myself, and I was, like, head to toe in brown, and for some reason, the background was red and my hair was kind of the same. I look like a log. And, you know, it's this text chain where I'm texting around like I look like a log. What the. And I just laugh at it. You know, it's all right. It's fine. It's just. Nothing's perfect.
- [85:41]
Jay Shetty
You get over it after you realize there's more bad pictures of you and Getty than good ones. And then you go, all right, I'm good with it.
- [85:46]
Chris Appleton
And that's the same with, like, a headline or whatever. I'm like, all right, it's cool. You know, fine, whatever. I mean, it's not easy. I'm not saying I laugh everything off at all. I'm. I'm a dad, and my number one goal is to protect my kids, you know, because they're gonna see everything, my family see everything. But I've also learned to be able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have to go back to that alignment and have to sit back in it. I'm okay.
- [86:14]
Jay Shetty
Have the kids read the book? Have you kids?
- [86:16]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, they have. Well, I think it's kind of for them. It's interesting because I'm Dad. I think one of the proudest moments of my life is the fact that they have been through so much on this journey with me, but they can still look at me and call me dad proudly. And that means everything to me. And I don't want to have any secrets. I want to share my journey with them. And as difficult as some of those topics are, I'd rather show them and say, that was really hard, and I moved on, and this is where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on because, like, it was easy. I moved on because I went through it, and it was brutal and it was challenging. But do the work, you know, and it will lead you to a better place.
- [87:01]
Jay Shetty
We reached out to the kids, and they sent us a note for you that I thought to my kids. Yeah, really. And so there's one each, and I'm going to ask you. I haven't read them yet, so I'm going to hear them for the first time, too. I'm Going to ask you to read Kitties out loud.
- [87:21]
Chris Appleton
Okay.
- [87:21]
Jay Shetty
Can read it out for us? Because I've not read it either, so I wanted to save it for you.
- [87:26]
Chris Appleton
There are so many things I've wanted to say over the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put them into words. But today I just want to tell you how proud I am truly to be your daughter. You've been my example of strength, compassion, and integrity for as long as. As I remember. For every chapter of life, you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices that I'll never fully understand. And you've given me love in a way that made me feel safe, valued and seen. Even now, watching you open your heart up and share your story to the world, I'm constantly inspired by your vulnerability and courage. And that's rare and a beautiful thing. You've given me so much more than I could ever thank for. Your love has shaped me, and your belief in me has carried through. I love you so much. And I'm forever proud to be your daughter. Of Kitty. Oh, God. I don't. I'm shaking. Oh, God. I don't know what to say. That's how you get me. My kids. I'm just so grateful that I have them and that they've been a part of this journey. And like I said, the biggest achievement of my whole life is that they can call me dad and say it with pride. Cause there's been so many times I've not felt proud of myself and I have not been kind to myself. And I think a lot of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And, yeah, having them is the greatest gift.
- [89:10]
Jay Shetty
Beautiful letter. And this one's from Billy.
- [89:12]
Chris Appleton
You know what? I remember that night telling them about being gay. It was especially for a boy. It's kind of what guys say. You're gay, you're gay. It's always pinned as a bad thing. So I knew he was gonna face so much going back to school of people talking and people whispering and people saying stuff to him. And they both have gone through so much that they never let me see because they knew I was going through my own pain. So, like, this means a lot. Okay. Dear dad, where do I even start? One of my first memories as a kid is you dressing up as Superman to surprise me on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero. I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older, I came to see the real superhero wasn't the costume. It was the man. And inside you went from cutting hair in a small local salon to taking a massive leap and moving across the world with nothing. And somehow, across the chaos, you built a life out there. You work with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on tv, and now even written a book. And through all of that, he's still the same guy who makes people laugh and lights up every room and who does everything he can to make the people around him happy. But what sticks with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished. It's what you've taught me. You've shown me how to be confident myself and not to care what other people think. And you've taught me how to stay motivated, to reach for the stars. And most importantly, you've taught me how to be respectful, kind, and caring and beyond proud to be. Keep doing you, dad. Love from Billy. Oh, God. Wow. Wow.
- [90:58]
Jay Shetty
I'm nearly in tears just listening. It's so beautiful, man.
- [91:01]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, that's really special.
- [91:04]
Jay Shetty
It's amazing. Yeah. I feel so proud to have to raise two kids who love you that much. That's pretty special.
- [91:11]
Chris Appleton
Yeah, I am. But, you know, any parent listening knows that their only goal is to make sure their kids grow up with the least amount of pain. And we all know the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid, you're so innocent, and life is so free. And as we grow older, there's so much baggage thrown at us, and I think the only thing you can do is try and understand it. And I spent many of my years, like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to me and shake that off and shake that package off. And if I can save them, if I can save them, having to go through some of the struggles I went through because I didn't allow myself to be, then I did okay with that, you know? All right.
- [91:58]
Jay Shetty
I'm so. No, Chris.
- [91:59]
Chris Appleton
I'm so sweating.
- [92:00]
Jay Shetty
I'm so grateful to you for, you know, your time and energy writing this book. I love about how you talk when people dive in. They'll learn about the personal hater that we all have inside of us.
- [92:11]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [92:12]
Jay Shetty
They'll learn about how you talk about how shame lives in the shadows.
- [92:15]
Chris Appleton
Yep.
- [92:15]
Jay Shetty
They'll learn about this whole journey of what it means to make a comeback and.
- [92:20]
Chris Appleton
And also to realize that it's never too late.
- [92:22]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [92:22]
Chris Appleton
It really is never too late. And sometimes we spend years of our life trying to figure that out. But once you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be that realization that it isn't too late and maybe a few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.
- [92:37]
Jay Shetty
Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
- [92:40]
Chris Appleton
Okay.
- [92:40]
Jay Shetty
These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
- [92:44]
Chris Appleton
Okay?
- [92:45]
Jay Shetty
So, Chris Appleton, this is your final five. Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
- [92:51]
Chris Appleton
Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different. If there's one thing I've learned in this time on Earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has had heartache. Everyone has had trauma and different baggage, and everyone is going through some things, I think, to try and remember that and let people live and let live and be. We're so judgmental sometimes, and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes. And that's something that we all do. But if you're aware of it, you can understand and be more forgiving towards people.
- [93:32]
Jay Shetty
My second question is, what is the worst advice you've ever received?
- [93:35]
Chris Appleton
I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been told so much of my life to fit in a box. There's no boxes you need to fit in.
- [93:44]
Jay Shetty
Question number three. Your favorite look you've ever done for Kim and jlo, Easy.
- [93:50]
Chris Appleton
Kim's met ball. She did the Mugler look. It was like the finger waves look. And JLo, Super bowl, everyone, I think unanimously, they tell me they're my favorite.
- [93:59]
Jay Shetty
But those are your favorites, too.
- [94:00]
Chris Appleton
They're everyone else's favorite, I think.
- [94:01]
Jay Shetty
What are your favorite? I want to know what your favorites are.
- [94:04]
Chris Appleton
Listen, I'm going against the grain. Everyone's going to come for me, but I love a blonde Kim. And taking her platinum as a whole thing, so probably a blonde Kim. I love that. And then JLo, I don't know. I really like it. When we did, like, a short. We did a short hairstyle for her on the COVID of a law, and I loved it just because it was so different. I love seeing someone really take on a different character and a different story and just try it out, you know, fearlessly.
- [94:26]
Jay Shetty
I love that. Question number four. What do you see when you look at the inner mirror? Now, so you told us you on the outside, sometimes you're like five pounds, blonde hair.
- [94:36]
Chris Appleton
Yeah.
- [94:37]
Jay Shetty
But what does the inner mirror look like?
- [94:39]
Chris Appleton
I think I see a guy that doesn't always have it together, but absolutely tries his best to be the best version of himself, primarily to inspire my kids that they can do the same. And now this book, so other people feel like they can share that journey with Me. And I want to hear other people's stories. I want to hear other people's journey. My greatest pain growing up was that no one spoke. No one spoke about it. No one spoke about their experience. And I think the more people that speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more we can all learn and accept and grow.
- [95:15]
Jay Shetty
Well said. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
- [95:24]
Chris Appleton
My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in the mirror and just says, is this enough? Is this what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And if so, great, but at least just to stop and really look. How did we get to where we got to realize that if you want to change, you can? Because like I said, I've always done that with my hands and sitting in the chair. But I realized there was this whole world that people don't know about. But once you know, you can't unsee it.
- [95:54]
Jay Shetty
Chris Appleton the book is called you'd Roots Don't Define youe. Everyone who's been listening and watching, I cannot wait to see what you're taking away. I want to see all the TikToks, the Instagram Reels, the stories. I love seeing what you extract from these conversations apply in your own life. If you've had a friend or family member that you haven't even known what to say to because they've been on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I think it's going to help a lot of people on their personal journey of transformation and reflection. And make sure you keep coming back, make sure you subscribe so that, that you never miss out on an episode. Because it's stories like this that we built this platform for, where people can come and talk about the ups, the downs, the real healing and what that actually looks like. And I highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book, you, Roots Don't Define you. It's available for pre order right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so much for trusting me, for trusting the platform.
- [96:51]
Chris Appleton
Thank you for what you do, Jay.
- [96:52]
Jay Shetty
You've been so open and honest.
- [96:53]
Chris Appleton
It's a real privilege to be here and share it with you because I feel like you two have shared your journey and it's inspiring to a lot of people. So, you know, you're a big inspiration to me, so to be here is very honored. So thank you for your time.
- [97:06]
Jay Shetty
I genuinely have so much respect for you to be able to talk about some really, really difficult stuff. And I think in the world right now this message is really, really needed. There's a lot of people that this book, this interview is going to help and so thank you and I'm so grateful to you for using your platform to spread this message. You could talk about your life, you could teach people how to build a big brand, you could teach people to do so many things, but the fact that you've told them about your truth and how they can find theirs, it's a really beautiful offering and service. So thank you. Chris.
- [97:37]
Chris Appleton
Thank you.
- [97:38]
Jay Shetty
Thanks so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like.
- [97:52]
Chris Appleton
That is so unfair because that's not who I am.
- [97:54]
Jay Shetty
And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the.
- [97:57]
Chris Appleton
Mirror and being like, but I know who I am.
- [97:59]
Jay Shetty
Why does anything else matter? Step into the freedom of summer with jewelry that reflects who you are and where you're going. From sunrise to sunset. Pandora Jewelry transports you to paradise. Price no passport required. From ocean charms to colorful tennis bracelets. Shop new arrivals to add to your summer staples. Be unmissable this summer with vacation ready designs. Personally, I love simple statement pieces for summer, something gold toned or engraved with a meaningful word or date. Pandora actually has in store engraving with personalization which is such a fun idea especially for summer members. Memories. Feel it, Live it. Embrace it. Be love. Shop in store or online@pandora.net to discover new styles. We talk a lot about alignment, mind, body and spirit, but rest plays a big part in that too. I've been thinking more about how I sleep and what I sleep on. Avocado Green Mattress stood out to me because their mattresses are made with certified organic latex cotton and wool. No chemical flame retardants, no petroleum based foams, just clean, breathable comfort. Their best selling Avocado Green mattress comes in firm, medium or plush so you can find the feel that's right for you and wake up well. Head to avocadogreenmattress.com today and check out their mattress and bedding sale. Avocado Dream of Better.
- [99:30]
Chris Appleton
This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations Hesu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy. I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're, like, having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone, because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com this is an I Heart podcast.