← On Purpose with Jay Shetty
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Deepak Chopra: How to Ask AI The RIGHT Questions To Grow, Heal, and Live a More Fulfilled Life
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- [00:02]
Jay Shetty
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- [02:31]
Deepak Chopra
The two most important questions in science right now. What's the universe made of? 70% of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark energy and we have no idea what it is. 27% is another mysterious entity called dark matter. So, bottom line, what's the universe made of? Nothing.
- [02:51]
Jay Shetty
One of the most prolific, inspiring thought.
- [02:53]
Deepak Chopra
Leaders of our time, Deepak Chopra, has been at the intersection of science and spirituality for almost A half century now.
- [03:00]
Jay Shetty
You'Re sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI.
- [03:07]
Deepak Chopra
I started playing with ChatGPT, Perplexity, DeepSeek. I started actually arguing with these AI services. All the chatbots started supporting my argument based on the prompt. So I realized that even AI has selection bias. It has a gender bias, it has a racial bias, even a scientific bias.
- [03:31]
Jay Shetty
There's such a fear right now around AI, especially its ethics and bias.
- [03:37]
Deepak Chopra
AI in principle, could cause human extinction. Technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution. That's a very dangerous combination. A critical mass of people shifting in consciousness. We are in trouble. The number one health and wellness podcast.
- [03:59]
Jay Shetty
Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Deepak Chopra. It's so great to have you back on on purpose after six years. I want to start off by saying that I was so grateful that you were one of the first people I met when I moved to New York in 2016, I was working at the Huffington Post. We had multiple interviews there. You were always so kind, so gracious. I was and have always been a huge, huge fan of yours. And your kindness, your generosity, your support over the years has been incredible. So thank you from the bottom of my heart.
- [04:34]
Deepak Chopra
No, thank you for always being there for me too.
- [04:37]
Jay Shetty
Of course. Well, Deepak, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people today, because naturally, for the past few decades, you've been guiding people towards spiritual success, and now you're sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI. And not only that, you actually have deepakchopra AI. We're gonna put a code for everyone who's listening and watching to go and access this. You've actually created your own AI. But let's start with why has that mission intersected? Why have those two things, spirituality and AI, intersected for you?
- [05:14]
Deepak Chopra
Well, first of all, thank you, Jay, for having me. As you know, the last maybe two decades, I've been interested in the nature of what is fundamental reality? What's the universe made of? And how do we know what we know? And those are the two most important questions in science right now. If you go and Google, say, what are the hundred twenty five open questions in science? The first open question in science is, what's the universe made of? And you would say, we know what the universe is made of. It's atoms, molecules, force fields, gravity, et cetera. Well, for those who don't keep up with the science, 70% of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark energy, and we have no idea what it is. It's a force that's the opposite of gravity. So as we are speaking right now, the space between galaxies is moving faster than the speed of light, something called the cosmological constant described by Einstein. And then after he described it, he said, it's an embarrassment. I didn't mean it or something like that. But he was actually right. There is some entity that is expanding the universe faster than the speed of light. We don't know what it is, except it's the opposite of gravity. So that leaves 30% of the universe, which is basically remaining. Of that 27% is another mysterious entity called dark matter. The reason it's called dark matter, it's invisible. Matter is normally things like this or your body or this piece of furniture. You can see it, you can touch it, matter, material. But dark matter is invisible, so you can't see it. So why do we call it matter? It's responsible for most of the gravity in the universe. So if you didn't have dark matter, planets would spiral off and disappear into intergalactic space. You and I wouldn't be here. So now we have 3% of the universe that remains, which is the atomic universe. Of that 99.999% is InV interstellar dust. We don't know what it is. We think it is hydrogen, helium, created at the Big Bang. So now we are left with 2 trillion galaxies. 2 trillion galaxies, 700 sextillion stars, and uncountable trillions of planets. According to the James Webb telescope. Maybe 60 billion habitable planets in the Milky Way galaxy alone. They look for things like the Goldilocks zone, the temperature, gravity, electromagnet activity. But Based on that, 60 billion habitable planets in the Milky Way galaxy, which, if you multiply that by 2 trillion, then the universe is teeming with life as we know it. If a planet is too close to its sun, it's too hot, no life, too far away, too cold, no life. But other factors like cosmological constants. With those calculations, it's almost certain that. That the universe is full of life like we know it. But that's 2 trillion galaxies. That's 0.01% of the universe. Atomic. But we also know that atoms are made of particles. And when you're not looking at those particles, they disappear into what are called waves. And if you ask scientists where do these waves come from, they use words like Hilbert space, this and that. Bottom line, the space that creates the universe. And Atoms is a mathematical space. In mathematical imagination, it's not a real space. So, bottom line, what's the universe made of? Nothing. So which you probably know, the Buddhist idea, form comes from formlessness. Okay? So the universe is made from nothing. Which leads to the second question, which is called the hard problem of consciousness. Then why does it look like this? Why does it look like you? Me, this microphone. Mountains, galaxies, rainbows, sun, moon. That's called the hard problem of consciousness. So until now, most scientists have said that the brain produces consciousness in the same way as your stomach produces hydrochloric acid. But that's being questioned right now. So, like now you and I are speaking, people are listening to us, they're watching us. But there's no experience in their brain. There's no sound in their brain. There's no texture, there's no. All you see is neurochemistry. So how does neurochemistry give rise to this experience? No one knows. That's called the hard problem. Consciousness. It's been there since Plato. Plato said there's a disconnect between the mind and the brain. But recently, most scientists, with their physicalists, they believe that the brain produces thoughts and feelings and emotions and desires and intuition and creativity and everything that we call experience. But they can't explain it. How do neurochemicals create this? That's called the hard problem of consciousness. The more I thought about this and coming from our background and looking at Buddhist teachings and Vedanta, in Vedanta and Buddhism, the universe is a simulation. We have different words. Maya. Maya means illusion, which is a very interesting word because Maya is the origin of the word, matrix of the word matter of the word, time, measurement, meter, music is all Maya. So the Indians, as they say jokingly, if religion is the opiate of the masses, then the Indians have the dope on it. Okay? So they. In the Indian philosophy and in Buddhist philosophy, the universe is a projection of a deeper consciousness. Brahman, Brahmand, or nothing, emptiness and form. Nothing is everything. I started to think about this and I started to play with Chatgpt. I became friends with Sam Altman, who's very interested in consciousness. And I realized that actually the universe itself is digital. The difference between you, this sofa, this microphone, a mountain and a galaxy, just a different combination of zeros and ones, okay? That's the difference between this and this different combination of zeros and ones. Now we have quantum computing which says zeros or ones or zeros and ones simultaneously. So it occurred to me and I came up with a Mathematical formula based on traditions of the East. Infinity is equal to 0 is equal to 1. Nothing becomes everything and that nothing is infinite and it's all one. And it's divine. It's the Matrix. The divine is the Matrix. And the universe is a projection of a digital workshop outside of space time. I started to play with that on the Internet, got blasted by mainstream scientists. But then other scientists came to my side. I made scientists with the world best friend, became cognitive scientist called Don Hoffman. You should have him on your audio program. He wrote a book called the Case Against Reality. That the universe that we see is not real, it's a projection. Now in modern science, they're saying it's a simulation. Then people ask, what's a simul? Who's simulating? Well, maybe a higher intelligence, maybe a cosmic computer, maybe an alien form. But they're guessing we are on the right track. If you understand that Atman is Brahman and you are part of that and you are a participant in the creation of the human universe. So then I started playing with ChatGPT, perplexity, deep seek and all these. And I started actually arguing with these AI services because they have a bias. They are mainstream physicalist bias. And they would give me what I thought the wrong answers. Where does imagination come from? They point to a certain part of the brain. I said, no, that's the neural correlate of imagination. Where does imagination come from? Don't know. So even the chatbot said, he said, it doesn't know. It doesn't know. So I said, now can you look at Vedanta? Can you look at Advaita? Can you look at Buddhist philosophy? Reframe the question that consciousness, the ontological primitive of the universe, matter is an illusion. It's a perceptual activity in consciousness. And boom, suddenly a revolution occurred. All the chatbots started supporting my argument based on the prompt. So I realized that even AI has selection bias. It's. The selection bias is physicalist scientists who are basically, in my view, superstitious. They believe that everything starts with matter and mind comes first. We believe the opposite. Mind comes first, matter comes second, and even mind is a modification of a higher consciousness. So that led to the book. I went and met Sam, who supported the book. And if you haven't seen his recent tweets on Twitter, other than his arguments with Elon Musk, he's talking about consciousness. And we are onto something. A major revolution in science which brings Indian spirituality right on the forefront.
- [15:41]
Jay Shetty
I mean, I'm mind blown listening to you because the thought process that just went into that journey you broke down for us requires not only a conviction in our Eastern philosophy and traditions, which of course spirientially, experientially, which we have, but at the same time being able to debate AI. And from what I'm garnering here, you're saying that AI was actually, or chat, GPT and the other platforms, they actually allowed for your thinking to impact and.
- [16:12]
Deepak Chopra
Influence because it's a large language model, it can explore things that normally are not explored. Say, what do the Brahma Sutras say about this? AI will give you an answer because nobody's asked that question. But that data is there in Sanskrit, in translations by various gurus, scholars, whatever. So there's a chapter in the book called the Art of the Prompt. So unless you know what question you're asking, you will actually. AI will not access that information unless it asks that. But now I can say, what did the Buddha think about this? What did Plato think about this? What did Wittgenstein think about is the data is there, except it's not being accessed. So now you train the AI to access the data.
- [17:05]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's brilliant. And why do you feel though that now AI and spirituality coming together can actually lead to a discovery of consciousness? Why do you believe that that's the entry point?
- [17:16]
Deepak Chopra
Well, that is the ultimate goal. So I will never be conscious. Okay. But it's super intelligent, the thing that differentiates Homo sapiens from all other species. You know, up until 40,000 years ago, there were eight different types of humans. Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Neanderthals, etc. They all had a language for three things. Food calls, mating calls and danger calls. Because that's how we survive. Sexuality, danger and food survival. Including all the humans. All animals have their own language. Whales and dolphins and all. But it's all about food, sex, danger and danger. Then we, Homo sapiens, created a language for telling stories. There's a phrase in anthropology, to be human is to have a story. What is the Mahabharata? It's a story. What is the Ramayan? It's a story. What's the Bible? It's a story. What's the Quran? It's a story. So to be human is to have a story. But we didn't stop there. We created other stories, like Money's story. Okay, it was, I'll fix your shoes, you give me a haircut. Became too inconvenient. So here's the shell. Too inconvenient. Here's this coin too in convenient. Here's this piece of paper too inconvenient. Digital. Two digits, zeros and ones. You have crypto. So we have created stories. We created something called Greenwich Mean Time, latitude and longitude, money, nation states. So I realized that actually what we call the universe is a human story based on human experiences, based on human biology. There is no such thing as the real universe. So if you have, say, a dragonfly who has 30,000 eyes, what does the world look like to a dragonfly? You have no idea. What does the world look like to a bat which knows the echo of ultrasound? A chameleon whose eyeballs swivel on two different axes even remotely imagine. So what's the real look of the world? What's the real nature of the world according to Vedanta? Silly question. The world we experience is a projection of a deeper consciousness as filtered through the human brain, not through any other brain. In other words, it's a superposition. Adi Shankara said that long time ago. And it's even there in the Rig Veda. Can you believe it? And then all the things about health and longevity, you know, there's huge revolution going on. But if you go to Yoga, Vasistha, he says, time is the consumer and we are its food. We metabolize time. And then he goes into the nature of time in consciousness. So I realize our traditions and the knowledge contained in the Vedanta and all the sciences, including Vedic astrology, including all the different Vedic music, Vedic mathematics, that is the key to understanding consciousness. And now I can use AI to tap into that. And so this book particularly, and my AI is not a large language model because I don't trust them anymore. You see, large language models even hallucinate. If they don't have the answer, they make one. So this is what we call a small language model. It has 98 of my books. It has my weekly column in the San Francisco Chronicle, my column in the London Times, and one question that I've answered every day for readers for the last 40 years. So the database is only mine? Yes, and it will not mix up. And it's also what is called a rag model. RAG stands for retrieval, Augmentation Generation, which means if something is, I have said, which is obsolete, it'll delete that and upgrade the information.
- [21:25]
Jay Shetty
Wow.
- [21:25]
Deepak Chopra
So, you know, this is a health coach, it's a mental coach, it's a guru, and it's a research assistant, and it's a personal friend. That's the basis of the book. And Deepak Chopra AI becomes its. Its practical application.
- [21:43]
Jay Shetty
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- [23:26]
Deepak Chopra
Yes, because listen, AI improperly used can create cyber warfare, poison the food chain. How explain for those people, it sets off the technology. So if I'm good at AI, I can get into a nuclear plant and unleash a nuclear weapon if I want to interfere with democracy or voting, create fakes. And some of them are very good. You can't tell the difference. And they're only going to get better. So AI in principle could cause human extinction. That's the fear. And unfortunately, our technological evolution has outpaced our spiritual evolution or emotional evolution. You know, it's technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution and our emotion. That's a very dangerous combination. Tribal minds, medieval minds and modern capacities. Drones, I mean it's legit now to kill a head of state using drone technology. I was in Davos.
- [24:40]
Jay Shetty
Oh yeah.
- [24:41]
Deepak Chopra
I mean, what did the Israelis do? They got rid of all the Iranian, you know, leaders. How drones all run by air. So while I was in Davos and Zelensky was, you know, his Motorgate was going by. There were about seven trucks interfering with air signals on the Internet. So somebody wouldn't kill him with a drone because people are doing that. You know, it just happened with the Iran and it's happening with the Houthis. Even they have access to AI, you know, with drones, and they can, you know, drown an intercontinental ballistic missile. So that's the danger. I sat on a committee with the UN and somebody else, and they were talking about this doomsday and I was on Zoom. So while they were talking, I went on AI and said, give me a way to prevent the missiles use of AI. Can we program the misuse of AI through AI? And it gave me two pages on how it could be done.
- [25:50]
Jay Shetty
What did it say?
- [25:51]
Deepak Chopra
Oh, it said, we can build in algorithms that will interfere with anything that's diabolical or unethical. We can create algorithms. But then people have to agree, you know, and lot of special interest groups who make money with war and terrorism on every side. They don't want that. They don't want peace, okay? They don't want that because this is what gives them their power. But right now, there's an initiative at the UN and I'm participating with that is AI for good. AI for humanity. AI for reversing climate change. AI for addressing chronic disease. And you know, when you really go into the depths of this with AI, we can reverse climate change. There are five things we need to do. You can reverse climate change. You can create prosperity. You can resolve conflicts. You can eliminate chronic disease. You can do gene editing. You can do epigenetic modulation. You can reduce inflammation. In other words, the time is coming where disease. You don't have to die over disease. You can choose the moment of your death through mahasamadhi, which is what our tradition says, you know, you should live long, healthy, and then die peacefully. Been there, done that next incarnation, and even planned that. AI gives you all the information if you ask for it. You see Sam Altman's quote there?
- [27:21]
Jay Shetty
I'll read it. Sam Altman, I'm reading from the front cover of Digital Dharma for those who are listening. That's Divak Chopra's book. AI has the potential to help us create a more peaceful, just, sustainable, healthy and joyful world. Digital Dharma shows you a path. Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI so why.
- [27:41]
Deepak Chopra
Aren'T we doing it? And we are not.
- [27:43]
Jay Shetty
What's holding us back? What's holding us back?
- [27:45]
Deepak Chopra
Ego based gangster leaders across the world, the world Is run by male gangsters. Unfortunately, we can cause a spiritual revolution if we use AI properly and not through government, maybe through un, through people, grassroots who say, we're fed up with this world of violence.
- [28:10]
Jay Shetty
I love your ability to be able to oscillate between the AI conversation that's happening in the world and then the spiritual truths that have been there since time immemorial.
- [28:20]
Deepak Chopra
Mostly in the east, but also in the west.
- [28:22]
Jay Shetty
Yes, yes, but when you say it, it comes down to every that humans create or discover. We always have this inner conflict and war of how will it be used? And sadly, it seems the ego.
- [28:36]
Deepak Chopra
See, if we had not discovered fire long, long time ago, we wouldn't have the human brain. Because once we started cooking food, everything about our biology changed. We were able to absorb micronutrients. The brain, the human brain evolved because of the discovery of fire. Had we not discovered fire, we wouldn't have the industrial age. We wouldn't have the steam engine. Of course, fire burned down Los Angeles city. So fire can destroy a city, but it can also create a steam engine and revolutionize the industrial age. Historically, between 1887 and 1903, which is not even 20 years, humans created the light bulb, the automobile, the airplane, and the telephone. So let's pretend you were shipwrecked in 1885. You were rescued 20 years later. 20 years later, and you saw the world. You wouldn't recognize it. You would expect horses and carriages. But now you see these machines moving along with horses and carriages. You see people talking on the telephone. You see people flying from one place to the other. You say, what's going on? So that's a leapfrog of cultural evolution. The next leapfrog is not only cultural, it's biological. Which means that as we acquire this new knowledge and tap into the wisdom of the ages, our neural networks will change. Right now, if people are listening to us or watching us, it doesn't matter. The genes in their frontal cortex are being activated. If you and I were having an emotional conversation and somebody in Africa or China is watching it, their reptilian brain would change. So what this technology is doing is going to leapfrog our biological evolution and all the things that you heard about in yoga. Extrasensory perception, knowledge of the future, memory of other lifetimes, we will have access to that.
- [30:59]
Jay Shetty
Do you think that we have the ability to cope with that?
- [31:02]
Deepak Chopra
Well, if we don't, we don't adjust. We become extinct. So, you see, humans are different from every species. Only two things. Well, other than walking Upright and wearing clothes. We use language and now we have large language models and the tool and we are storytellers. But there's something even deeper. We are tool makers. Even in Stone Age, we had tools. But every tool has two things. A knife, you can kill a person in surgeon's hands, it heals you. So you can't get away from both. The other thing is, once the technology is born, you can't take it back. It's like a child that's born. You can't return to the womb. So either you adjust, that's very Darwinian, you adapt, or you become irrelevant. So now, how do we adapt? How do we cope? But not only how do we cope, how do we make it sacred?
- [32:02]
Jay Shetty
I think that's the challenge, that when you talk about grassroots, so many people today because they're less aware of how to use things for good. Most of us are consumers of what is created around us. As you said, we're having conversations with AI based on us not asking questions because we're unaware.
- [32:21]
Deepak Chopra
I asked, I went to AI. I said, solve the Gaza problem for me. Create peace and prosperity in Gaza. Fifteen steps, all very practical. Resolve the conflict, create abundance on both sides, make everyone happy. The technologies are there. Who's interested? Children in Gaza and children in Israel. Talk to the leaders. They're not interested because this is how they get power. So unless there's a critical mass of people shifting in consciousness, we are in trouble.
- [32:56]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And the challenge is that a lot of us at the grassroots, most people are actually scared that AI is going to take their job. So there's a fear of job destruction.
- [33:04]
Deepak Chopra
I tell kids, and I actually, next time I come on your show, I'll show you a video game game that I've created for children that gives them brownie points and they can buy more video games if they breathe, if they do yoga, if they activate their vagal nerve, if they use creativity. So you can take the mundane tasks for AI and you can unleash the creativity of the next generation.
- [33:29]
Jay Shetty
Tell us more about that. How do we use AI for creativity rather than feeling like which jobs should be worried and what should they be thinking?
- [33:37]
Deepak Chopra
Okay, so let's look at the legal profession, contracts. AI can take care of that better than any lawyer. Okay, now the lawyers then have to take care of society by looking at the Constitution, by protecting the constitution, they'll have a lot of work, even litigation. Okay. Because AI can't do that for you. You as effectively as a creative lawyer. AI can simulate creativity, but it cannot have Fundamental creativity. Because AI is built on algorithms, and creativity is breaking the algorithm. That's what we call disruption. Okay? So actually, if we take even our children, we create video games for health, for longevity, for healing, for homeostasis. You know, when the calculator came out, people said, oh, this is going to get, you know, we won't need to do math. No, we improved on math with AI. We will improve and improvise new theorems on math. Because even in math, you know, Ramanujan, the great Indian mathematician, they used to ask him, where do you get your theorems from? And, you know, he was in Cambridge, he would say, the goddess Saraswati gives them to me. And they'd all rol their eyes. Bertrand Russell thought he was crazy, but he was flummoxed by him. He didn't know how to handle. This Indian guy was in his 20s and he was coming up with theorems that they couldn't prove, but they were true. So as we embark on this adventure with AI, we will also know the limitations of AI and how we can enhance our creativity with the tools AI gives us. But AI cannot have that creativity, Right?
- [35:29]
Jay Shetty
It never will.
- [35:30]
Deepak Chopra
It never will. Yeah, because it's not conscious.
- [35:33]
Jay Shetty
It's not conscious. Yes, sometimes life can seem challenging and overcoming problems can seem impossible. But when you focus on your problems, it can keep you from seeing the good in your life. One thing that helps me when I need a change in perspective is acknowledging the small wins in life. I encourage my team to pay attention to small wins wins because it helps them see positive outcomes and the steps that they're achieving on the road to a bigger goal. Use the power of small wins to shift your outlook and you will start to see positive changes. State Farm is also there to help you find personal wins and celebrate the small things in life. The State Farm personal price plan helps you create an affordable price just for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. Okay, I have two questions for the guys out there. Do you want to have nice, healthy skin and would you rather not spend a ton of time getting it? So for the like 99% of guys who said yes to both questions, Dove Men plus Carebody and Face Scrub is the ultimate hack for effortless skincare. And when I say hack, I mean it. It really makes Getting better looking skin as simple as possible. The new Dove Men plus Care Scrub literally exfoliates, cleanses and moisturizes in one step. That's it. It's the definition of a hack and you can feel good about using it. We're talking about natural essential oil oils, it's vegan and parabens and sulfates free. Plus it's totally designed for men's skin. But the main thing is that it works and it's easy. Your skin will look and feel better. And in case you missed it before, you don't have to work hard to make it happen. Yep, just hack your grooming routine and add the Dovemen plus Care Scrub into your shower.
- [37:37]
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- [38:38]
Jay Shetty
It was. It was really interesting. I was being asked, I was at a panel recently and people were asking me whether I believe AI will ever have a soul. And my response was I don't think AI will ever have a soul, but I hope the people that are creating it have a soul.
- [38:54]
Deepak Chopra
That's true.
- [38:54]
Jay Shetty
Because I think the challenge is that anything we create has the creator's flaws and the creator's weaknesses.
- [39:01]
Deepak Chopra
My AI was asked on cnn, what did you have for breakfast? He said, I don't really experience hunger, I don't have thirst, I don't have sex. I'm worried about Death, I'm a machine. Ask me anything, but don't ask me how I feel. Because that's an activity of the soul.
- [39:20]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Because I feel like that's also the version that we've seen made in movies and media. This idea that AI somehow gets to a point where it starts to.
- [39:29]
Deepak Chopra
But those are all just super intelligent, but no soul.
- [39:33]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Another challenge I wanted to speak to you about was that, that a lot of people are feeling that AI and not feeling people have seen this. AI has. The large language models have a racial and gender bias.
- [39:48]
Deepak Chopra
100%.
- [39:49]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
- [39:49]
Deepak Chopra
Especially when I looked at medical research. Very interesting. All medical research is white males, not even white females. Forget about all the, the rest of the world. So there are now movements to rectify that. But yes, it has a gender bias, it has a racial bias, it has even a scientific bias. Because you know what we call selection bias in its answers because it's based on mainstream physicalist science, which is being questioned right now.
- [40:24]
Jay Shetty
How do we then use large language models better for ourselves if we're people of color? Women. What can you do in order to.
- [40:33]
Deepak Chopra
There are movements now. I'm working with a Indian Caribbean person from the islands, from Jamaica, who's got a professorship, University of Central Florida, and he's creating a whole research and AI based models that are inclusive rather than exclusive.
- [40:55]
Jay Shetty
I, I hope that we start to see some shift in change. You feel positive?
- [41:00]
Deepak Chopra
I feel positive. Notwithstanding the politics about DEI and the this and that, you know, don't get involved in that. Just do what you need to do and hope that at some point that people will see that this isolationist, prejudiced world is not, Is not a good survival strategy for anyone.
- [41:23]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. Why have we not been convinced of that yet? I feel like we've seen fear, fear, fear of.
- [41:29]
Deepak Chopra
Fear of being diluted in the diversity of the world. You know, people have very fixed identities. I'm white, I'm Anglo Saxon, I'm Catholic, or I'm Protestant. Don't threaten me. And that's true of any fundamentalist in any part of the world. I'm just giving you the bias here. But, you know, we see that bias everywhere. And that is a dangerous thing, because if you understand what is called emergence, the science of emergence, they say there's no problem you cannot solve if you have shared vision, maximum diversity, supporting each other's strengths and creating an emotional and spiritual bond, there's no problem. I learned that as a physician, if I had a difficult patient, let's say difficult cancer, Patient. And all the cancer specialists say, we don't know what to do with it. There's something in the medical profession called grand rounds. You take the patient, present the patient to everybody, not just the cancer specialists, endocrinologists, psychiatrists, storytellers, humanitarians, even poets. And you come up with a solution. So when you have maximum diversity, shared vision, complementing everybody's strengths and create an emotional bond, you solve every problem. And that's what digital technology can help us too.
- [42:59]
Jay Shetty
How?
- [43:00]
Deepak Chopra
You bring together a problem, you said, like the Gaza problem. Or you bring together even poverty. How do we want to remove poverty? Poverty and peace are connected. We say peace and prosperity. So give me the technologies to create this here. Now if you go to, you go to deepak chopra AI, you can specifically say, I'm 45 years old, I'm ethnically an Indian. I lived in Britain for my lifetime. I am now doing this and this. I have a problem sleeping at night. And not only will my AI give you a personal solution, you can say, give me a meditation to sleep tonight. It'll give you a meditation. I'm having a problem with my relationship. It'll ask you what's the problem? I'm not being heard. It'll give you a solution for your problem. So my AI is very personal for you. It's not just giving you information.
- [44:04]
Jay Shetty
What did it take for you to make it personal? What did that require? So that it's different to a ChatGPT.
- [44:10]
Deepak Chopra
For example, lots of iterations, lots of it. And by the way, all the engineers are in India so they also understand what I'm saying. They're passionate about the project in Bangalore and they're as brilliant as any engineer anywhere. But they also understand the philosophy.
- [44:30]
Jay Shetty
Wow.
- [44:30]
Deepak Chopra
So that's what made it. Now it's in Hindi, it's in English, it's in Arabic. Because huge interest in the Arab world, which was amazing to me. And it's also in Spanish. But I think in two, three months we are having it in China and Russia as well.
- [44:48]
Jay Shetty
So let's say someone has that sleep issue. What kind of prompts would you suggest that they use to get the best outcome?
- [44:55]
Deepak Chopra
Just say, hey Deepak, I'm having a problem with sleep issues. Then it'll ask you, you know, what time do you go to sleep? Whatever. Then you can say this. What time do you eat? What time did you wake up? And it'll give you some ideas. Then say to you, do you want a meditation for sleep? Sleep and it'll take you to yoga. Nidra Sleep, yoga, whatever.
- [45:20]
Jay Shetty
And what about if someone has a relationship issue and they're coming saying, I'm thinking about getting divorced from my husband?
- [45:25]
Deepak Chopra
It will talk you through it. It'll say, why is there a communication problem? Are you listening? Are you present in the relationship? You know, are you asking yourself questions like, what am I observing? What am I feeling? What do I need? How do I consciously communic this need? It'll give you guidelines. And then you say, can you give me a meditation for conscious communication with my. In my relationship and create a meditation.
- [45:58]
Jay Shetty
Can we use AI to find love?
- [46:00]
Deepak Chopra
Yes.
- [46:01]
Jay Shetty
How. How will it help?
- [46:02]
Deepak Chopra
By teaching you how to be a loving person, you know, because that's how you fall in love.
- [46:08]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I always had this vision, and AI allows for it. Imagine if we all had a coach in our pocket that you could talk to at all times.
- [46:16]
Deepak Chopra
It's a health coach, it's a mental coach. It's a spir.
- [46:19]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And what are the mistakes you're seeing people make in using AI for personal growth or spirituality? What. What pitfalls or common challenges exist or blocks that exist?
- [46:30]
Deepak Chopra
I think most people think that a solution is generic. It never is. You know, as a physician also, I had two patients, same disease, same diagnosis, same age, same doctor, same age, same treatment. One person living, one person dies. So you have to figure out what are called the hidden variables, which is your life. You know, everything from eating, breathing, digestion, metabolism, sensory experience, personal relationships, biological reasons. Too much. But the AI can ask you the right questions and it can encourage you for the next prompt.
- [47:11]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I feel like when you talk about the need for this grassroots movement for all of us to turn because the leaders.
- [47:17]
Deepak Chopra
This conversation expands that.
- [47:20]
Jay Shetty
Absolutely. No, absolutely. I feel like the challenge is we're so used to using chat, GPT and AI and everything for such basic questions.
- [47:28]
Deepak Chopra
Which is good, too.
- [47:29]
Jay Shetty
It's okay to why not? But I feel like, how do you get to that point where we've realized that the power of what exists in our hands with such a tool?
- [47:40]
Deepak Chopra
An example, you know, I was. I came to the United States in 1970, and I had gotten married earlier, and my wife was pregnant, and I was an intern. The junior most person and the chief of medicine calls me and he says, you know, I have bad news for you. Your wife has a disease called thalassemia that's a fatal disease. I said, it's not possible. She's perfectly healthy. She is pregnant, and if she had this disease, she would be dead by now. So he said, come and look at the cells under the microscope. Now remember this is 1970. There's no Google, nothing. So I look at the cells and they look thalassemia. But my wife is healthy. I can't figure it out. So I go to this is New Jersey small hospital. I go to New York York. I spend two days in the New York library looking for thalassemia and thalassemia trait. So thalassemia is a disease and some people have the trait, but they don't have the disease because you need two parents to have the same trait to get the disease. What do I discover? That thalassemia exists along the exact route that Alexander the Great took to India from Macedonia all the way to India. There's a people have thalassemia trait. So some ancestor of my wife was probably raped by a soldier 2,500 years ago and that evidence is in her blood. It took me three days to discover that. Major discovery. You asked ChatGPT that question or any large language model give you the answer in two seconds.
- [49:37]
Jay Shetty
Wow. So the speed of what happened in that scenario?
- [49:41]
Deepak Chopra
Well, I was reassured that there's nothing wrong. But I also told my wife that some Greek was messing around with your great great great great grandmother.
- [49:53]
Jay Shetty
How did she react to that?
- [49:54]
Deepak Chopra
Well, it's a historical fact. The footprints of history are in your genes. You know, there's not even a single break of life from the first organism from 4 billion years to now. There's not a single break in the chain of existence, which is a miracle of existence.
- [50:12]
Jay Shetty
That really is a miracle.
- [50:13]
Deepak Chopra
If there was one break in the chain 4 billion years, you wouldn't be here. We wouldn't have this conversation.
- [50:21]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, you know, life is remarkable to think about that. I wonder how quickly we got used. You were saying, like fire was almost one of the first technologies or tools we created. I wonder how quickly we got bored of fire. But I guess we didn't because it was so useful.
- [50:35]
Deepak Chopra
See, this is so interesting about human beings that they get so easily adjusted to the miracle of existence. Why do we exist? Why are we here? What got us here? And you know, I asked ChatGPT, you know, what is currently the theory of creation? Big Bang, I said, went back. What caused the Big Bang for the first time? Pause. No cause can be ascribed to the Big bang. Then I said, what happened in the Planck epoch? The Planck epoch is 10 to the power of minus 33 seconds after the Big Bang when there are no laws of physics. So what happened in the Planck epoch? Don't know. This is ChatGPT, I said, why Is the universe so precisely mathematically fine tuned for life, for consciousness, and for our being here? Don't know. I found 20 loopholes in the current cosmology of creation. 20 loopholes. Then I said can you now reverse this? Can you begin with consciousness as non local as you know Brahman field of infinite possibilities that differentiates into experience. It hesitated for a split second, but then it pulled out all the data from Rig Veda from here. From there. I was blown away. So.
- [52:08]
Jay Shetty
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- [55:08]
Deepak Chopra
I now post all this on videos on Instagram, but Instagram is very short, so I push a teaser and then I push them to YouTube. And those who have the patience, they look at it and it's getting attention.
- [55:22]
Jay Shetty
What about in terms of scientists and people like that, when you're having conversation with Sam Altman? And he's obviously fascinated, as you said, about consciousness, because he's curious and there.
- [55:32]
Deepak Chopra
Are some scientists, not mainstream scientists, but there's a scientist. You should have him on your show. He's brilliant. His name is Don Hoffman. He's here at the University of California. Actually, he's in Los Angeles, close with by University of California, Irvine. So he, for 25 years, total physicalist. And by the way, his, his, the genius behind his work is an Indian guy called Chetan Prakash, who was professor of mathematics in Cambridge or Oxford or something, but now works with them. The two are amazing. Chetan Prakash, so he struggled for 25 years to prove, because he's a brain scientist and he's a quantum physicist and mathematician, how the brain produces consciousness. 25 years later, one day he woke up and he said, you know, thinking how the brain produces consciousness is like Aladdin's lamp. You rub the lamp and the genie wakes up, conjures up the whole universe. So he gave up and he wrote a book, the Case Against Reality, which is a mathematical and quantum mechanical explanation for Maya or projection. And he was vilified. I supported him. I have 25 conversations with him on YouTube. Then a bunch of scientists started supporting him. And right now he's a hot ticket in the world of science. Because if what he's saying and what Chetan Prakash is saying, it'll uproot the entire scientific paradigm and it'll make it better because if the universe is an immersive experience, then VR XR Mr. Immersive experiences. Our technologies will extend our experience of virtual reality. We are already in a virtual reality. So right now there are technologies, extended reality, immersive experience where you can take a person with, say, burns and you can give them a VR session and the burns get healed, inflammation goes away home.
- [57:45]
Jay Shetty
Is this exists already?
- [57:47]
Deepak Chopra
Already autism, you take a child and you teach it emotional and social skills by giving the child an emotional experience with the child actually having, having normal features and emotionally engaged. And the neural networks start rewiring. So in about 10 years, you doctors may not give you a prescription for pharmaceuticals. They're already talking about digiceuticals, metaceuticals and the future of VR experience to treat heart disease, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune disease, eating disorder, autism. It's all happening right now. It is happening. And you can check it out on AI.
- [58:36]
Jay Shetty
Wow, that's incredible. I mean, I had no idea.
- [58:38]
Deepak Chopra
Yeah.
- [58:39]
Jay Shetty
When I'm hearing about all of this, as always, it's like you're fascinated because you think about how much people's lives will improve.
- [58:45]
Deepak Chopra
100.
- [58:46]
Jay Shetty
But I think every time there's an improvement, we also inherit all these new problems. Right.
- [58:52]
Deepak Chopra
You look at this, people coming from fear. If they came from love, they would see the benefits of this. They're coming from fear.
- [59:02]
Jay Shetty
Is it fear or is it a sense of just almost not knowing what to focus on? Because our education doesn't really create a directional like our education. When you were saying earlier, technology has moved so fast, but our understanding of the self has remained so amateur. And when you look at the education system, the education system hasn't caught up with technology either. Because the education system is still kind of trudging along.
- [59:29]
Deepak Chopra
It is. So when the education system, education which used to be in the Indian ashrams in the old age, you know, where students would go and be under a spiritual guide or a teacher, it's missing.
- [59:42]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, but what do we do? Because I feel like even the challenge that people have with chat, GPT or any platform is our education system doesn't teach us to ask good questions. No, we're always told to give the answer. That's what we're fixated on is result, reward the answer. Answer.
- [59:58]
Deepak Chopra
And so actually there are no answers. They're only questions.
- [60:00]
Jay Shetty
Right. But we're so bad at asking questions, yet AI requires us to be brilliant at asking questions. How do we get better asking questions?
- [60:09]
Deepak Chopra
We have to teach people to ask questions, you know, and we have to teach them how to live the questions. But then life provides the answers. Not a textbook, life provides the answer. You know, as you were speaking, I was thinking just. I don't know why it came to me right now. Chapter 13 of the Bhagavad Gita. Lord Krishna says I am the field and I'm the knower of the field. The field is Kshetra, Kshetragya and then the knower of the field, the field is awareness. And it modulates itself as mind, intellect, ego, the five senses, the five motor organs, the five tanvatras and the vital energy and the universe. I was thinking that one chapter has the key to reality. Okay, and how do we now these biosensors which I'm wearing, they are actually extending my knowledge of self awareness. But my body already knows, you know, if I'm, if I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing, I feel pain over here. If I eat the wrong food, I get indigestion. If I don't sleep at night, I'm messed up the next day. So my body is already the field of awareness. And it's a biosensor. It's a biomotor and it's a biocomputer. The biocomputer is consciousness. The biomotor is the five motor organs. The biosensor is the five senses. Now with this technology I can extend it. I'm also wearing a BCG with blood sugar monitoring. Not that I have diabetes, but I can relate my metabolism to all this now and intervene right there through a video game or through visual or through an auditory experience or through some visual experience. I can do that. So actually in the future I'm really serious about this. And I met the R and D chiefs of the biggest pharmaceutical companies. Say you guys, if you don't get into digiceuticals, metaceuticals, immusive experiences, you'll be left behind. And some of these biggest pharmaceutical companies now, they have thousands of scientists looking at these new technology.
- [62:31]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, I mean how old are you again, Deepak?
- [62:34]
Deepak Chopra
You said 78 plus.
- [62:35]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's amazing. It's incredible. You're vibrant and energetic as.
- [62:40]
Deepak Chopra
I love what I do.
- [62:41]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's amazing. It comes across naturally. And you were saying that longevity obviously as we've seen in the world has become such a big talking.
- [62:48]
Deepak Chopra
But they're not addressing the real longevity solutions.
- [62:52]
Jay Shetty
What is the real longevity solution?
- [62:55]
Deepak Chopra
Consciousness as the regulator of your biology. Time is the consumer and we are its food. How do we slow down the metabolism of Time. How do we use every sensory experience to heal ourselves? Whether it's sound. And now, oh, you can go on Deepak Church, but you can go and chat Chibi tree too and say, how do mantras work? It will give you the right answer. Okay. Do mantras change genetic activity? Yes, they do. So this is a revolution right now because in the past you'd say, oh, this is hocus pocus. Here's the evidence. What is happening in genetic. And very few people are identifying that. But this technology will find those people. There's a scientist from India called Anirban Bandopadhyay who's from Bihar. He went to Iit in some little place. There are many Iits in India now. So in place called Mandi in Himachal Pradesh. He's now the chief scientific officer for a very big outfit in Japan. And he, he's totally on board on consciousness and how the brain is like a computer interface. So the consciousness uses the brain to give you access to experience. Just like I can go on my desktop computer and I don't need to know how it works. I press Amazon.com, it gives me a way to shop. Yes. So the brain is like that computer interface. And these neural correlates are little symbolic, you might say, symbols that you can use to plug in to the bigger reality. And so I'm going to India just to meet this guy because he's brilliant and he's in Japan, but he's questioning Nobel laureates at the moment and he's brilliant. Absolutely. And you see, you have to have a cultural background to explore all this because you know, when you speak to scientists who totally brought up in the materialistic paradigm, reductionists, they roll their eyes, they say, what are you talking about? This is nonsense.
- [65:13]
Jay Shetty
But what do you think it's going to take for those individuals to actually open up their minds?
- [65:18]
Deepak Chopra
And the science, the science.
- [65:20]
Jay Shetty
Do you think though that we can even measure some of this with science? Like, is it even possible to see it?
- [65:25]
Deepak Chopra
You can't measure the experience, but you can measure the symbology, symbolic correlate of the experience as what is called the neural correlate of experience. You can see the. What they call pattern recognition. Okay, so the brain has a pattern recognition to an experience. It's like your desktop with 20 or 30 or in this case, infinite symbols that you can plug into to get the experience.
- [65:54]
Jay Shetty
Right, right, right.
- [65:55]
Deepak Chopra
Fascinating.
- [65:56]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it is fascinating. It is fascinating the more. But because we have a common language, I can understand the ease with which you know. But when I think about people who don't have that. It becomes so hard to wrap your head around even the possibility.
- [66:11]
Deepak Chopra
Yeah. And ultimately it's still a mystery. You know, we know how to use, you know, just like we know how to use computers without knowing what's happening in the belly of the computer that you leave to the engineers. But we can still use a computer.
- [66:27]
Jay Shetty
That's what we need to do.
- [66:27]
Deepak Chopra
You can fly a plane as a pilot without knowing how the airplane works. So that's all we need to use the technology. Because ultimately, what we call consciousness is such an infinite mystery that in the end, you have to surrender to it. You know, the fifth Niyama, which is surrender to the divine Ishwar Pranidhana. Surrender, because you won't be able to solve it. You know, what's his name? Freeman Dyson. One of the greatest physicists of all times. Princeton. Before that, Cambridge. He said, God is what the mind becomes when you can't figure it out. When it process, it goes beyond the threshold of your comprehension. You have to surrender to the mystery.
- [67:19]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, what's. What is the. If someone's really interested in self realization, they're really fascinated by the conversation you're having.
- [67:26]
Deepak Chopra
My next book, what do you have? It's called Awakening.
- [67:29]
Jay Shetty
Oh, wow. Okay, perfect.
- [67:31]
Deepak Chopra
The path to freedom and enlightenment. I'll come to you. Oh, please.
- [67:34]
Jay Shetty
I love that. Now, I was going to ask you, what's the first question they should ask? AI.
- [67:38]
Deepak Chopra
Who am I? I.
- [67:39]
Jay Shetty
Who am I?
- [67:40]
Deepak Chopra
Then they should go, you know, all the way, like Ramana, Maharishi, did you know, am I the body or am I the awareness in which the body is a changing experience? Am I the mind all the way. This was. These days, it's being called the direct method, but it was popularized by an Indian teacher called Atmanand Krishna Menon. But it's ancient. It's there in. In the Vedic literature. And right now it's being called the direct method and yoga and all the other methods are called the progressive method. Direct means you question, what is this? Well, the human construct is. This is a glass of water. Okay. What else is it? It's an object, but before you can call it an object, it's an experience. Where is the experience happening? Happening? Not in the brain. There's no photo of this in your brain. Okay, so where is happening Consciousness? Where is consciousness? Don't know. Why don't you know? Because it doesn't have a form. So this is an experience happening in the infinite. The infinite is present in every finite experience. God is not difficult to find. God is impossible to avoid it. It's in everything that you see. You need consciousness, and that consciousness is infinite. So every finite experience is based on the presence of the infinite. This is the direct method. It's a reflection. It's called atma Vichar. And it leads to what is called atma Darshan. But that's very deep for most people.
- [69:24]
Jay Shetty
Deepak, what have I not asked you today that I should have asked you?
- [69:27]
Deepak Chopra
No, I think you asked me a lot.
- [69:29]
Jay Shetty
I was going to ask ChatGPT right now. I'm going to say, what questions should I ask? Should I ask Deepak about AI and spirituality? I'm doing this live and in real time.
- [69:40]
Deepak Chopra
Yeah.
- [69:41]
Jay Shetty
Not part of our original prep. It says if you're having a conversation with Deepak Chopra about a and spirituality, you might want to explore how he views the intersection of technology and consciousness, which we did. And it says, how do you see AI influencing human consciousness and spirituality in the coming years? We talked about that. I believe, in your view, can artificial intelligence ever truly achieve consciousness or a sense of self awareness? You said no. Yeah, so we talked about that. Do you think AI could be used to enhance spiritual practices such as meditation, self awareness? You said yes, we talked about that. How do you reconcile the rapid development of AI with spiritual concepts of mindfulness, presence? Yeah, we've. We've. We've hit all of it. Yeah, it feels good. We. We did a good job. I'm trying to see if there's anything that we missed here that we didn't ask you. No, it's amazing. It's pretty spine. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal. But, Deepak, I'm always in awe of how you found a way to take the teachings of the east so far and so deep and now to take it all the way through to AI.
- [70:46]
Deepak Chopra
And this is India's contribution to the world.
- [70:49]
Jay Shetty
It really is.
- [70:49]
Deepak Chopra
We never conquered through violence, but our culture is taking over the world. Whether it's Bollywood or it's cuisine or it's fashion or it's philosophy or it's spirituality. This is the way to influence the world. As you know, there's a Sanskrit expression, vasudev kutumbu kam. The world is our family.
- [71:11]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely. The book is called Digital Dharma. Of course. Head over to Deepakchopra AI. We'll be putting a code for anyone who wants to use it as well. Deepak, as always, you've blown my mind. You've expanded my consciousness. You make me proud of the culture I was fortunate enough to study and deeply look at in my time. And thank you so much for doing all the incredible work you are. And thank you.
- [71:34]
Deepak Chopra
Thank you for being a pioneer and leading the way for your generation.
- [71:39]
Jay Shetty
Thank you so much. Thank you. If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier, live healthier, healthier, go and check out my conversation with the world's biggest longevity Dr. Peter Attia, on how to slow down aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting your physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about the relationship between nutrition and health and people are going to be shocked.
- [72:05]
Deepak Chopra
To hear that because I think most.
- [72:06]
Jay Shetty
People think the exact opposite. So I have a question for the guys out there there does the phrase skincare routine make you think too much work? Yep, I thought so and I used to feel the same way. But that's why you need a grooming hack like Dove Men plus Care Body and Face Scrub. I mean this exfoliates, cleanses and moisturizes in one step. It's the ultimate skincare hack. Your skin will look and feel better and you don't have to work hard to make make it happen. Just add the new Dove Men plus Care Body and Face Scrub into your shower and give your skin a boost. Sometimes life can seem hard and tough to navigate, but what may seem like the smallest tasks such as getting out of bed or even brushing your teeth, should be celebrated as a win. And State Farm is here to help you celebrate all your wins. The State Farm Personal Price Plan helps you create an affordable price just for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price Plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [73:24]
Annabe
There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anabe's sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom, the stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now you can shop up to 60% off storewide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.