← On Purpose with Jay Shetty
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Dr. Gabor Maté: Constantly Worrying What People Think of You? (THIS Simple Shift Will Help You Trust Yourself and Stop Seeking Approval)
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- [00:00]
Jay Shetty
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- [02:05]
Dr. Gabor Maté
point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really? And everything that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed to fit other people's expectations or does it line up with who I really am?
- [02:24]
Jay Shetty
I truly am so excited to be here tonight at the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver with a dear friend. Someone that I consider to be the utmost expert goat, the greatest of all time. In his face. Like there is no one like Dr. Gabor.
- [02:42]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Mate, could you say more about that?
- [02:47]
Jay Shetty
We've been talking tonight about worrying about how we're perceived by others.
- [02:53]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [02:54]
Jay Shetty
And how that blocks us.
- [02:56]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [02:57]
Jay Shetty
From things in our life.
- [02:58]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [02:59]
Jay Shetty
Where does that come from? Why is it that we're so obsessed and addicted to what people think about us.
- [03:07]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, it's a great topic, and I think in this culture, it's fundamental. One, there's a wonderful Catholic monk and mystic called Thomas Merton who talked about how we live in other people's minds. So when we're concerned about what other people think of us, how they see us, perceive us, judge us, love us, hate us, we're not living in. In ourselves. We're living in other people's minds.
- [03:34]
Jay Shetty
Wow.
- [03:35]
Dr. Gabor Maté
So where does that come from? One of the needs of the human child. It's an essential need. Just as we have the need to be held physically, to be fed, to be nurtured, we also have the need to be seen because we get to see ourselves the way others see us. When the parents can't see the child in the child's essence, in the child's. Well, the great psychiatrist and co writer with Oprah of A. Bruce Perry, has written a book called Born for Love. And we're essentially born for love. It's a developmental need. And love isn't just how do people feel about us. It's do they see us? And if they can't see us for who we are because of their own limitations, and a lot of parents have trouble doing that. I certainly did. Then the child wants to be seen in a positive way by the parent. And then they'll change themselves, hide parts of themselves, exaggerate other parts of themselves, basically create an image that they want the other person to see because they can't see the real person. So really, it comes from our earliest relationships where we were not seen for who we are. Had we been seen for who we are, we would just accept ourselves and not be so concerned with other people see us. So it goes back to our earliest days in homes where the parents actually love the child. We're not blaming the parent here. We're saying that the parent's own limitations prevent them from seeing the child for exactly who they are. Then the child will mold themselves into whoever the parents want them to be.
- [05:15]
Jay Shetty
Well, how do you see someone for who they are and not who you want them to be, who you think they could be, or just the best parts of them? Because what I'm hearing is that's what we end up doing, right?
- [05:29]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah. Well, that's the key question. And somewhere I heard you say that people love you, but they may not love you the way you want them to love you. And we actually have trouble loving people the way they need to be loved. We think that love is the feeling that we have for them. And that's certainly true, but it's much more than that. You can have all kinds of loving feeling towards somebody, but be limited by your own traumas from seeing them for who they are. And also a lot of parents in this culture want their kids to fit in with the culture. Now that means you have a preconceived idea of who the child should be. And then when you don't see the child as the way you want them to be, you're dissatisfied with them. Another child will behave in more impetus to fit themselves into the parents expectations. So it comes from this culture's incapacity to see people for who they actually are.
- [06:39]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I mean, as I'm listening to you thinking about just the amount of moments there are in our lives where the person's trauma creates new challenges for us.
- [06:56]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [06:56]
Jay Shetty
That doesn't get healed, that then gets passed on. How do people in this room, how do we all make sure that we are people, where that cycle stops, that we can break that cycle, that we can interrupt that pattern, that we can be the people in our families, in the lives of people who have children? Even if you don't choose to, how do you become the person that changes that trajectory for your family?
- [07:23]
Dr. Gabor Maté
At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really? And everything that I manifest, speak and do, is it designed to fit other people's expectations or does it line up with who I really am? And people get to that point and that's what they call the midlife crisis, actually. And all of a sudden you start wondering, whose life am I leading anyway? I certainly went through that. Still going through it. 81 years old and still going through a midlife crisis.
- [07:59]
Jay Shetty
You know, see, you're not too old, Etienne. 26 is all right. You're doing just fine. You're doing just fine.
- [08:07]
Dr. Gabor Maté
So. But what I'm saying, Jay, is there has to be a questioning there. At some point. You have to recognize that it's not working the way that feels good in the heart or in the gut. So there has to be that recognition. Then there has to be a curiosity. Now you're asking about future generations. But the way we gift future generations is by actually working on ourselves. Not by trying to be better parents, but by actually dealing with our own stuff. That's the way we avoid, as best we can, passing it on to the next generation.
- [08:53]
Jay Shetty
I think one of the ways the inner critic and that inner voice keeps us imprisoned is that it makes us Believe we're only valuable when we're busy. Yeah, we're only valuable if this right.
- [09:09]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Wait a minute. Did the guy who just starts a 13 city tour in two weeks just ask me that?
- [09:18]
Jay Shetty
You can't expose me on my own show.
- [09:22]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Look, I just. Believe me. My wife's in the audience and she once said to me, buddy, you've written a book called when the Body says no. No. You better write one called when the Wife says no. Precisely for the same reason.
- [09:41]
Jay Shetty
That's so good. That's so good. You didn't answer my question.
- [09:44]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Sorry, sorry, I missed what you said.
- [09:47]
Jay Shetty
No, I was saying, yeah, I mean, me included. We definitely have that belief that I am valuable if. And fill in the blank. It could be I'm only valuable if I'm busy. I'm only valuable if this person says, I am. I'm only valuable if I get promoted. I'm only valuable.
- [10:05]
Dr. Gabor Maté
I know. And we do have this idea that we're only as valuable as how we appear or what we do, but not for who we are. And again, goes back to very early days. And I've often talked about something my friend, the great trauma psychologist pioneer, Peter Levine, said to me a couple of years ago. And Peter is, I think, a year or two older than I am. He's done an amazing work in the world. One of my mentors. And Peter said, if I ask myself, have I done enough? The answer is very much yes. But if I ask myself the question, am I enough? I still don't know the answer. You know, and in this society, we're very much programmed to identify or value what we do. And it's very interesting when I talk to people about it, because people will tell me I'm only as valuable as what I do. And then I ask them this question, do you value me talking to myself as a human being? And they say, yeah, of course. I say, okay, what if, God forbid, tomorrow I'd have a stroke and I couldn't speak and I couldn't move and I couldn't give anything to anybody. Would you say to me then, gabo, you're worthless? And they say, of course not. I said, then why are you saying it to yourself? Why are you saying to yourself that you're only as valuable as what you do? So that there's this inner concept that I'm only as valuable as what I do or how I show up. There's a tremendous lack of self compassion.
- [11:41]
Jay Shetty
Wow, that's. Yeah, yeah, please give it up. That's. I've never thought about it like that and the distinction you just made between those two questions.
- [11:54]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [11:55]
Jay Shetty
Have I done enough? Am I enough?
- [11:58]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [11:58]
Jay Shetty
How do we learn to give a positive, genuinely true answer to the second one? How do we rewire when the whole world is telling us, like what you do is who you are, your title, your followers, your Instagram bio, the whole world is telling us that. How do you kind of even begin to remanuvre how the mind is being programmed?
- [12:23]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah, well, it's. I can't say that I fully worked it out, but. But two things come to mind when I hear your question. One is, would you say to a one day old baby who can't do a thing, would you ever say to them or believe about them you're not enough? And of course you wouldn't. Then why are you saying it to yourself? Okay, so that's the first answer. And then the second answer is who's even asking? You know,
- [13:08]
Jay Shetty
Gabo, on the flip side of feeling like we only have value because we work hard, a lot of us are guilty or feel guilty for resting. If you look at the studies in the United States, high percentages of people don't use their annual leave. And the annual vacation in the US is far less. I'm hoping in Canada, people use their annual leave. Yeah, there you go. And in the uk, we definitely use our annual leave. But. But there's that sense that we all still feel a slight guilt for resting. We feel a guilt for taking a break.
- [13:48]
Dr. Gabor Maté
We. I can totally relate. When I was a busy and workaholic family doctor, literally, and you know, I used to deliver babies and look after pregnant women. I'd feel terrible going on holiday with my family because somebody might give birth without me. You know, it's like imagine somebody in the world is born without me. How's that? You know, how's that? How did humanity survive all those millions of years? You know, but that voice in me that says, I'm committed to that patient, I have to be there. And in the sense of guilt that I'm actually looking after myself, that comes from that same belief that we're not enough unless we're doing something. That lack of valuation of ourselves just for being.
- [14:36]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, I mean, that resonates so strongly and so, so many of us are constantly challenged by it. Walk us through what's actually happening to the brain when we stress ourselves physically or get close to burnout, what's actually happening to us that we don't see the invisible effects. We know that we get tired, we get exhausted, but what's actually happening inside that we often miss?
- [15:03]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, so stress, by the way, we Canadians can be proud of the word stress because actually was coined right here in Canada in the way that we use it today.
- [15:15]
Jay Shetty
I didn't know that.
- [15:16]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah, no, a lot of people don't. It was coined by another fellow Hungarian of mine called Ian Orhan Selye S E L Y E who was a physician and researcher who came to Canada in early 20th century, just after the First World War. And he did his research on stress at University de Montreal in Montreal. And he's the one that showed in the laboratory the impact of stress on diminishing the immune system, overgrowing the adrenal gland, which is the stress gland, and ulcerating the intestines. And he's the one that the word stress wasn't new, but the way he used it was new. He's the one who established it internationally. And the thing about stress is it's an essential response to life challenges. If you're confronting a threat, you're better have a stress response, which means you'll have activation of your nervous system in a good way and make you more alert. You'll have more adrenaline to give you more energy and strength to fight back, more cortisol that gives you more blood sugar to have energy for the challenge ahead. In the long term, that's a positive and necessary physiological response of all animals. In the long term, those same stress hormones, and this is something that my profession, the medical profession, I only wish would understand and practice more, is that in the long term, those same stress hormones give you high blood pressure, constrict your blood vessels, high risk of strokes and heart disease, thin your bones, so you get osteoporosis, suppress the immune system or can even turn it against you. So you get autoimmune disease, make you depressed, put fat on your belly so that you're more at risk of heart disease, turn on genes that can cause cancer, turns off genes that can protect you against cancer and cause inflammation in the body. So this is what we all bring on ourselves. And people don't realize how because they've taken on these driven values of this culture, they're actually literally making themselves sick. And sometimes it takes an illness to wake people up. And I don't recommend that while you're waking up, but my God, it works that way very often. One of the Greek playwrights, Aeschylus, wrote in a play called Agamemnon, written 2400 years ago, and he said that the way that the gods created us human beings that we have to suffer into truth. We have to have pain, wake us up to reality. And unfortunately, too often it's these stresses that we impose on ourselves that then create pain, illness, dysfunction that then wake us up. That maybe the way I'm living isn't the way I'm meant to live. But I don't hate it. I regret that that's how people have to wake up. It often is. Certainly I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth. I don't gravitate there automatically.
- [18:34]
Jay Shetty
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- [19:04]
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- [20:04]
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- [21:16]
Jay Shetty
If someone's sitting there right now and wondering, gabo, I noticed stress early. I can see it's getting worse. What do I do? Where do I start? What should I be thinking about doing? Changing, shifting? If I want to walk out of here tonight and I want to really prioritize this because I don't want to end up with that long laundry list of pains in my life, what should I do? What would you say?
- [21:39]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, read my books. But. Well, actually, actually I did mention the book I wrote called when the Body says no, which is the whole point is that when you don't say no, the body will say it for you in the form of illness. In my most recent book that we've discussed before the Mythonormal, there's actually a whole chapter on this. And when I say this, this simple question to the inquiry that you just made for that person, I would say where in your life are you not saying no? And by that I mean there's a no that wants to be said, but you're not saying it because you're afraid of how the world will perceive you. You're afraid that people will not like you. You're afraid that people might be disappointed in you. Where is there no that your organism wants to say but you're not saying it? Start with that. Where this week did I not say no? Where today did I not say no? And that usually happens in two arenas of life. In personal relationships. It happens all the time in personal relationships and in work where there's a no that wants to be said but you're not saying it. Again to you that the no that you're not saying is going to be a source of stress for you. So that's the first question. Other questions follow. But that's the first one. Where am I not saying no?
- [23:08]
Jay Shetty
That's a great first question. Yeah, Everyone, everyone resonate with that. That idea of where am I not saying no? That, that resonates so strongly with me because I think you're spot on. We all, we were talking about that in the first half. We were talking about that inner voice that if you just sit and listen to it, but we're moving so fast, we're so busy that that no can be really quiet. And it's like this little whisper that's barely getting.
- [23:32]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, that small still voice that the Bible talks about. Right. And, and there's a related question as well which comes later in the same exercise, you might say, which is, why am I not saying yes? There were times in my life where I had certain creative urges or desires, but I was too busy not saying no. That there was no space for me to say yes to what I wanted to say yes to. So those two questions, where am I not saying no? Excuse me, I just came back from a 12 day speaking trip. So my voice is saying no, you know, and here you are. Yeah, I like to see you at the end of this trip. But those two questions, those two little words, yes and no, they're crucial in people's lives. They're small little words in every language. They're very short little words, you know, German, nine, Hungarian. No Russian. Yet you know, French. Non. Really short little words. But they're just decisive in people's lives. And it's very interesting, those of you that have been parents, what is the word that your kids start saying at one and a half? No. Put your shoes on. No. And you think, as a matter of fact, I had a friend, I've told this story before, I had a friend called Harold who had a cell called Ben. And we were medical residents at the same time. This is decades ago, it's only 47 years ago. And Harold the father says to his son Ben, who's two years old, ben, do you want an apple? And Ben said, no, I want an apple. And what that's about is the. Is nature putting a barrier for the child behind which he can develop his own self. And before your yeses mean anything, you have to be able to say no. And in this society, we call that inner stupidity. We call that the terrible twos when it's perfectly natural. So we start with that word and then we Stifle it in people. And at age 45, they don't know how to say no.
- [25:52]
Jay Shetty
It's so interesting because I feel like our mind convinces us. I don't know if you're like this as well. Our mind convinces us that I can't say no.
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Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [26:00]
Jay Shetty
Like, oh, my God, I just couldn't. Like, if I gab or if I started doing that, my life would just fall apart. I can't do it. Like, it's not possible. And our mind says, oh, no. And I can't say yes to this because. So we almost kind of fool ourselves.
- [26:13]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, we do. And. And. And The Buddha said 2500 years ago, in so many. Almost in so many words, that with our minds, we create the world. Now, if you've. If your mind lives in a world where you saying no threatens you, then you're not going to say no. Now, what the Buddha didn't say is that which is more modern psychology, is that before our minds create the world, the world creates our minds. So if you grew up in a family where, you know, wasn't respected, where it was seen as a sign of disrespect, disobedience, something to be suppressed or punished, and your acceptance depended on your acquiescence, then you will forget how to say no in order to protect yourself. So it starts off as an adaptation. Sometimes when I give my lectures, I play a song by Elvis Presley. Did you see that wonderful documentary about Presley called the Return of the King? I haven't seen that one, but okay, it's wonderful. He goes through this phase where he sings terrible songs, where he gives up on his incredible charismatic energy and talent and just becomes a puppet in the hands of his manager. And then he does this comeback concert, and he shows up on stage dressed like a God in leather clothing, just the most beautiful man on earth. And he sings his raw, raucous, ribald, wonderful rock and roll, and he's fully himself. But then he gave that up and he sings this song called Any Way youy Want Me. That's the way I'll be. I'll be strong as a mountain or weak as a willow tree I'll be anything that you want me to be and that's how he ended up living his life. He ended up dying very young in very tragic circumstances. He's somebody whose raw genius was of world significance and his energy was unbelievable. And he gave it all up.
- [28:28]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's.
- [28:29]
Dr. Gabor Maté
And he paid a heavy price.
- [28:31]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, those stories. And when we have hindsight can be so powerful for us yeah. Even if we're not living that life or whatever it may be, they're so powerful for us to look back on. And tonight, I wanted to make this an extremely special experience because I want you to know just how deeply grateful I am that you're here today. And I've asked Dr. Gabo, as my first guest, if he was comfortable leading and guiding an individual who wanted to go through his compassionate inquiry personally in this seat up here tonight. And so if there's anyone who's going through something, feels like they've been held back, feel like they've been challenged, who wants to, before we take questions, would like to go through a process in front of the audience. He'd happily walk you through. So if you want to, just raise your hands and I'll have a look around.
- [29:23]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, thanks for coming up. I hope you're not nervous. There's only a thousand stranger, a thousand strangers watching you. What would you like to talk about?
- [29:31]
Audience Member
I'm on your chapter on attunement, and I guess I would love to hear it from your point of view, because I think I'm really trying to, as of this week, to stop trying to explain myself and refine my instinct and listen to my gut, and I would just stop trying to be seen. Stop trying to explain myself is something I'm really working on right now and something I want to pass on to my children and would really love to see how that starts. And I think you guys kind of gave a really good intro to that today.
- [30:07]
Dr. Gabor Maté
All right, thank you. So are you concerned about if you don't figure this out, that might affect your children somehow?
- [30:14]
Audience Member
Yeah.
- [30:15]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Okay. Well, let's start with the beginning. How old are your kids? You said one and three.
- [30:19]
Audience Member
Yes.
- [30:21]
Dr. Gabor Maté
And how old were you when your mother began to work on herself?
- [30:30]
Audience Member
That's a tough question.
- [30:32]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, what's the answer?
- [30:35]
Audience Member
Probably now.
- [30:36]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Okay. What would it have meant for you if your mother had begun to work on herself when you were one years old?
- [30:44]
Audience Member
It made a big difference.
- [30:46]
Dr. Gabor Maté
How so? You would know who you were.
- [30:53]
Audience Member
Yes.
- [30:54]
Dr. Gabor Maté
You've already given that gift to your children. Notice that. Okay. Because you've already begun that work. You've already begun to ask those questions, so you got nothing to worry about. That's the first point. Okay. The second point is, who's the one who's even asking the question? Who's the one that notices that sometimes you don't follow your gut, that sometimes you don't listen to your heart? Who's the one in you that notices that?
- [31:28]
Audience Member
Me.
- [31:29]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah. So you're already here. You say, I'm trying to be myself. You don't have to try anything. It's already here. You just have to pay more attention to it. Not that part of you that sees and asks, can you check in with that in your body? What does that feel like in your body?
- [31:54]
Audience Member
Peace.
- [31:56]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah, peace. But you said it with a kind of a scrunched up face. Peace. Just check in again. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just noticing like you're not quite ready to believe yourself. So check in again. That part of you that notices and is committed to being you and is committed to helping your children be themselves, how does that part feel like inside you?
- [32:31]
Audience Member
Confidence.
- [32:32]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Thank you. Now notice that you said that with absolute confidence. What else do you need to know? Is there anything else you need to know? I'm asking you.
- [32:48]
Audience Member
So how do you just be confident?
- [32:51]
Dr. Gabor Maté
You just did it. You know what you do? You check in with your body. This thing that I'm doing is called compassionate inquiry. It's a therapeutic method that I've helped to develop and we teach it internationally, online. You can look it up online if you want to, but it's based on the fundamental belief that there's nothing wrong with anybody to start with, that everything, for example, you're disconnecting from your gut feelings was an adaptation, but that the truth is inside you and by asking the right questions, the truth will emerge. It's as simple as that. And I think the audience has been witnessing that truth emerging from you very easily. That's my sense. Unless you're pretending, which I don't believe you are. Okay. So just keep asking yourself, where am I not saying no today if I didn't pay attention to my gut feelings, not judge yourself for it. I didn't, you know, I screwed up again. But, huh, I noticed I didn't pay attention to my gut feeling today in that situation. I wonder why not? What did I believe at the time? So just keep asking yourself. Just keep showing up for yourself, which is what you're already doing. So I'm telling you, you're on the right track already. Far more than I was at your age, by the way. Okay.
- [34:21]
Audience Member
Thank you.
- [34:22]
Dr. Gabor Maté
You're very welcome. Thanks.
- [34:40]
Jay Shetty
I really love that method and I hope as you were listening, you were practicing on it, on yourself. Like I was.
- [34:48]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Right. Right.
- [34:49]
Jay Shetty
Because as I was listening in, there was a real sense of just how we constantly think we're not on the path. Yeah, we constantly think we're not doing the work. We constantly Think that there's something wrong with us and something broken.
- [35:05]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Right.
- [35:06]
Jay Shetty
And you were just saying, actually, that is the challenge that you know.
- [35:11]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah. And I'm saying that whether for you or for me or anybody in this audience, whatever you think is wrong with you at some point served a purpose. So for Christina, at some point, disconnected from her gut feelings, served the purpose of being accepted by the people that she had to be accepted by. It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a moral failure. It was an adaptation. The problem is that these early adaptations then become ingrained, and that which was helpful in one situation becomes a limitation in another situation. But asking yourself the right questions will get us back to source. If I may mention, I'm wearing this bracelet here, and I was given this in Haida Gwaii, which is, as people in British Columbia know, that it's a beautiful set of islands in the north of our province where indigenous people have lived for something like 10 or 12,000 years. And then it was colonized, and they were treated terribly. And I gave a trauma workshop up there a year and a half ago, and an elderly woman came up to me, and I've told this story before, of she was so ashamed of herself because she forgot her native tribal national language. And I said, well, what happened to you? And I was given this bracelet at that workshop. And what happened was she went to residential school where indigenous people had to surrender their children to the state and to the church. And she made the mistake of speaking her native tongue, at which point they took a stake and they beat her. Her forgetting her language at that point saved her life. And then she was ashamed. I didn't fight back. I said, okay, you were five years old. Could you escape? No. Could you ask for help? No. What would happen if you fought back? They might have killed me. So not fighting back, what she's judging herself as cowardice was actually her organism's wisdom to save her life. And what I'm saying is that all these things in ourselves, that's an extreme example, but all these things in ourselves that we berate ourselves for, judge ourselves for, criticize ourselves for, they began as adaptations. We need to be very kind to ourselves. And that's why I'm saying compassionate inquiry. There's a spiritual teacher who says that only when compassion is present will people allow themselves to see the truth. Well, that compassion needs to be extended to ourselves, and then we can extend it to others as well.
- [38:02]
Jay Shetty
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- [38:44]
Dean Graziosi
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- [39:44]
Dr. Laurie Santos
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- [40:56]
Jay Shetty
It's so powerful for me to hear that from you because I think we're so good at saying, oh, God, the last three years were just a waste of time, but now I figured it out.
- [41:05]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [41:05]
Jay Shetty
You know that job that I was in 10 years ago, I just, I should have left it earlier. You know, that relationship we're so good at berating, as you said, and just saying, oh, that was a waste of time. And it's almost like, well, no, no, no, it wasn't ideal. It wasn't help it.
- [41:19]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [41:19]
Jay Shetty
It wasn't easy, it wasn't comfortable, it wasn't nice. But it's aided you, it's helped you, it served you. And you're so right that, well, you
- [41:29]
Dr. Gabor Maté
know what, the great German philosopher, Nietzsche, he said once that we, I'm paraphrasing him, but he said, we talk about these dead ends that we went down. He said, there are no dead ends. We just found out that that wasn't the way to go. So we didn't waste any time. Thomas Edison said he was once asked, what is it? What did it feel like to have failed 1999 times to build a light bulb until you finally got it? And he said, I didn't fail 1999 times to build a light bulb. I found out that there was 1999 not to build a light bulb. And so much for our dead ends and our mistakes and all these things, you know, we had to do it to find out, to find out our reality. That's all.
- [42:17]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. I wanted to give you all an opportunity this evening to ask questions to, to Dr. Gabor mate, as we have him here for the last few moments. If you would like to ask a question, I'm going to come out into the audience and hand you a mic. So raise your hands and I'm going to come and find you. So, yeah, keep them raised so I can see you.
- [42:39]
Audience Member
Even as an adult in my experience of working with many different people in marketing and business and when you say no to someone right away, whether you have a reason to, people abruptly shut down. They don't hear what comes after the no. So what I've been doing with my children, I'm also a school counselor, so I talk about diplomatically Saying no, saying like just that pause moment for you to share your no without saying no right away. What are your thoughts on that?
- [43:12]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, Eckhart Tolle, who's another Vancouver based teacher internationally, very well known, I'm sure, very well known to this audience, he talks about a high quality no. So there is, that's kind of an automatic, resentful, reactive no which doesn't get across, it just creates more resistance. Or there's a high quality no where you're really honoring yourself and you're not making the other person wrong, you're just saying no, that does not work for me and I will not do that. And if you can't accept that, it's not my problem. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what comes up for me. And by the way, I thought I heard you say that you had cancer at some point. Well, in my view that's one of your body's way of saying no is through illness. And I've seen that all the time.
- [44:25]
Jay Shetty
So my question is, as an indigenous person who's had family that went to residential school, as I get more serious, my partner, we're talking about children, how do I know if I'm healed enough to not pass on that trauma?
- [44:45]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, some friends of mine who made a film about my work called the Wisdom of Trauma are just releasing a film this month. It's called the Eternal Song. And it's about indigenous wisdom around the world. And they came to Paraguay, they came to northern British Columbia, Africa, South America, Australia, New Zealand. They spoke everywhere to indigenous people. And the Eternal Song, the universal message everywhere is about the importance of learning from the heart and unity with nature, unity with the whole world. And when I speak in indigenous communities here in Canada, what I stress is that your own traditions that they try to, they try to kill in you. And you know, one Canadian politician said about the residential schools that the intention is to drive the Indian out of the Indian. So when you ask me how to not to pass it on to your kids, I say first of all, as I've said before, working on your own trauma, but also as much as possible, connect with that deep wisdom in your own traditions that would be so beneficial not just for your people, but for the whole society. And I think it's one of the tragedies of modern civilization. I just speaking to on Australia. In Australia, there have been indigenous people for 60,000 years, a continuous culture for 60,000 years. Canada is not 200 years old yet. Do you think in 60,000 years that might have learned a few things, do you think in 60,000 years there, over there, or your people here might have learned a few things that would be worthwhile for the rest of us to learn. So what I'm saying respectfully in response to your question is deal with your traumas, work them through, but also go back to your own wisdom because there's so much there that is healing, the unity, the chanting, the drumming, the dancing, the. The, the sun dancing, the cedar brushing, the. What do you call it, the smoke that you certain plant, you know, the sweat lodges. There's so much there. So combine modern trauma work with your own traditions and I think you'll have the perfect brew. That's my best advice to you. Thank you.
- [47:43]
Jay Shetty
So I'm just wondering how, relating actually to your previous conversation, how does one balances the desire to self improve and self acceptance?
- [47:56]
Dr. Gabor Maté
You see some kind of a contradiction between what you call self improvement and self acceptance. Can you say, tell me a bit more about that. What is the contradiction contradiction that you're perceiving there?
- [48:07]
Jay Shetty
The way I see it is for you to want to improve in the first place. You might see maybe yourself as not enough in some situation or facets.
- [48:21]
Dr. Gabor Maté
And that's true if you working on self improvement, you're making some kind of an accusation against yourself. But how about if you just put the two together as how can I reach my full potential? And ask yourself that question, then there's no contradiction. How can I reach my full potential? And what is keeping me from my full potential? There's no accusation in that. There's no self judgment in that. There's no self rejection in that. It just says how can I reach my full potential? And that is a lifelong process, but it's a beautiful one and there's no contradiction in it. I hope that answers your question.
- [49:03]
Jay Shetty
It did.
- [49:03]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Thank you so much.
- [49:16]
Audience Member
Hi. I've been on a similar journey kind of as Jay Shetty. I'm. I grew into wanting to help people since a really young age. I've always wanted to just be there for my friends, for my family. And I think one of the things that I've been that have limited me a bit is just feeling too young to help people, to give guidance or to, you know, just. And yeah, I recently started a YouTube channel. And like I was saying, I feel like there's just a lot of things for me to still learn and I feel sometimes too young to be spreading out whatever it is that I know. And like what we were talking about earlier, like feeling like I'm going to be judged or be looked at as like, what do you know? You know? But I'm 22 years old, so I do feel really, really young still. And. Yeah, and so I guess just my question would be, how do I, I guess, tap into that wisdom that I have without feeling like it's not enough?
- [50:24]
Dr. Gabor Maté
What I heard you say is that you feel that you're too young and you have a fear that other people will judge you as too immature, as just not ready to make a contribution. That's what I heard you say. Okay. Now, I can think of lots of people at age 22 who were recognized geniuses by the time they were 22. Mozart was one of them. You know, he was composing stuff when he was 11 years old, you know, so that age has got nothing to do with it. That's the first point. Second point is when you say, I feel I'm too young, that's not a feeling. Feelings are, I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm sad, I'm angry. Those are feelings. I am too young is not a feeling. It's a belief. Okay. Can you see the distinction? Okay. If a friend of yours, like, at age 22, I was at university and I was writing columns for the student newspaper, would you have come to see. Would you have come to me and say, gabor, you're just 22, you're too young to write anything. Would you have said that to me? How come you wouldn't have said that?
- [51:51]
Audience Member
I think. Well, I think one of the things that I see is that, like, we were talking about earlier, too, I.
- [52:00]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm just asking you a simple question. You're 22 and you're saying yourself, I'm too young, but you would not said that to me at age 22. I didn't have YouTube. There wasn't YouTube then, but there was a newspaper that I wrote for. Why would you have not said to me, gabo, you're too young to do this? How come?
- [52:27]
Audience Member
Because you're not me.
- [52:29]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Oh, so there's different rules for you and me, is that right?
- [52:32]
Audience Member
No, but I think I would just automatically think that you. You're good.
- [52:38]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, here's what I'm thinking. Are you willing to apply the same rules to both of us?
- [52:43]
Audience Member
Yeah.
- [52:44]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Then just apply the same rule to yourself. And as a matter of fact, even if a friend of yours who was your age said, hey, I got this idea of a YouTube channel, I want to make a contribution and express myself. And would you say to Them. Hey, you're too young. Okay, so again, notice what I referred to before as the lack of self compassion and just notice it. Now don't judge yourself for lacking self compassion. Just notice it. And then make an effort to treat yourself the way that you treat me or anybody else and you'll be just fine. Now, you know what? People may judge you. That's totally true. That may be true. So what, what's the headline? Human beings judge other human being. People judge me all the time. I mean, just go to the YouTube channels, you know all this stuff of mine and lots of wonderful comments. But some people say this guy bores me to death. And one of them, actually, I love this one today, it was on a political issue that obviously this person didn't agree with me, but they said Gabor obviously has dementia. Okay, so what?
- [54:10]
Audience Member
Okay, thank you so much,
- [54:25]
Jay Shetty
Gabor. You have been such a joy and such a treat to have my first ever live interview for the podcast. Podcast that we've ever done. To do it in Vancouver, to do it with you, someone that I genuinely learn so much from every time you speak, every time you share, someone that I'm so grateful to call a friend. We've meditated together, we've had plenty of conversations together. And I want to ask you one last question before I.
- [54:52]
Dr. Gabor Maté
But before you do, let me just also say that it's a real honor and a pleasure for me to be invited by you to speak with your audience and to be the first one on this tour to be a guinea pig for you.
- [55:16]
Jay Shetty
We've all been guinea pigs tonight.
- [55:18]
Dr. Gabor Maté
That's right.
- [55:18]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, we're in it together. But I want to end with one last question I wanted to ask you. You. Which is if there's. One thought you'd love, for people to discuss as they left today, something that they could talk to on the way home with their friend, that they came with, the partner, the family member, and if they came alone, something they can start a conversation tomorrow.
- [55:48]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Yeah.
- [55:48]
Jay Shetty
At work, at home. What would you encourage them to?
- [55:51]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Well, I'll tell you what comes up right away for me is ask yourself this question. What is true for me? What is true for me? Ask yourself that question and keep asking that question. Keep asking that all your life. That's what comes up, what is true for me. Yeah.
- [56:08]
Jay Shetty
I love it. Dr. Gabor, mate, everyone.
- [56:10]
Dr. Gabor Maté
Thank you.
- [56:12]
Jay Shetty
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Mate. On understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds. To start moving on from the past.
- [56:23]
Dr. Gabor Maté
A therapist once said to me that if your parents didn't know how to hold you, you developed a mind you hold yourself with. It's a fate of pain, and it's designed to keep you from experiencing pain.
- [56:34]
Jay Shetty
Success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, you can APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion. Our programs are designed for people who never stop you bring the fire. Apu will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu Happy Earth Month. Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official non profit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. Want to lend a hand? Explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation and learn how you can help support our national parks@garnierusa.com MPF we spend so much time managing stress and wellness, but sometimes it's the unseen things around us that throw us off, like allergens hiding in the air we breathe at home. That's where Clorox Pure Allergen Neutralizer Daily Air Spray comes in. Developed with allergists, it neutralizes common household allergens like pollen, dust, mite matter and pet dander right where they can linger most in the air. There's also Clorox Pure Allergen Neutralizer fabric and carpet spray for carpets, couches and bedding where allergens can lurk. Add Clorox Pure to your daily routine to stop allergens before they become allergies. Find it in the Air Care aisle at a retailer near you.
- [58:17]
Dr. Laurie Santos
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.