Feel Stuck in the Wrong Job? This ONE Mindset Shift Will Help You FINALLY Discover Your Purpose (Even If You’re Starting From Zero)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Feel Stuck in the Wrong Job? This ONE Mindset Shift Will Help You FINALLY Discover Your Purpose (Even If You’re Starting From Zero)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: On Purpose with Jay Shetty
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Release Date: June 27, 2025
• Description: Jay Shetty, renowned motivational speaker and podcaster, engages in deep conversations to help listeners become happier, healthier, and more healed. Through interviews with experts, celebrities, and thought leaders, Jay explores ways to grow mindset, build better habits, and uncover hidden facets of influential personalities.

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1. Overcoming the Fear of Starting at Zero

[02:21] Jay Shetty:

"No one starts in an arena. Everyone starts at zero... We're scared of people watching us start at zero."

Jay Shetty begins the episode by addressing the universal fear of starting from nothing. He shares his personal journey of giving speeches to small groups, often with minimal attendance, emphasizing the importance of gratitude and persistence. Jay highlights that the fear isn't about starting from scratch but about the perception of others witnessing that beginning. He encourages listeners to embrace their humble starts, reassuring them that everyone, irrespective of their current status, began from zero.

2. The Role of Purpose vs. Passion

[07:46] Jay Shetty:

"Your passion is for you... your purpose is what you give."

Jay delves into the distinction between passion and purpose. While passion is about personal joy and fulfillment, purpose is about contributing to others' lives. Jay explains that transforming personal interests into actions that benefit the community elevates passion into purpose. He stresses the significance of impacting even one person’s life as a foundation for eventually reaching millions, underscoring the ripple effect of small, meaningful actions.

3. Embracing Solitude vs. Loneliness

[30:21] Jay Shetty:

"Being lonely is the weakness of being alone, but solitude is the strength of being alone."

Addressing societal perceptions, Jay differentiates between solitude and loneliness. He points out that modern society often portrays being alone negatively, equating it with incompleteness. Drawing from Paul Tillich's philosophy, Jay advocates for solitude as a powerful state where one can be content and self-sufficient. He shares an impactful experiment from his world tour, where participants experienced solitude and emerged with profound self-reflection and renewed values, demonstrating the transformative power of alone time.

4. The Impact of Personal Appearance and Authenticity

[21:11] Jay Shetty:

"Authenticity is me being honest about what I care about and what I don't do."

Jay addresses the often-judged aspect of personal appearance, discussing how society projects insecurities onto others based on their external presentation. He emphasizes that authenticity isn't about being indifferent to others' opinions but about being honest with oneself regarding preferences and values. Jay recounts personal anecdotes about his style choices and the importance of aligning one’s exterior with inner values to foster genuine connections.

5. Navigating Relationships and Misconceptions of Love

[50:41] Jay Shetty:

"Love is something that has to be earned rather than shared."

Discussing his book "Eight Rules of Love," Jay explores common misconceptions in romantic relationships. He highlights how society often confuses inconsistency with excitement and stability with boredom. Jay argues that true love is about shared values and mutual effort rather than chasing ephemeral attractions. He encourages prioritizing long-term compatibility over short-term thrills, emphasizing the importance of emotional maturity and self-awareness in sustaining meaningful relationships.

6. The Journey of Personal Pivots and Purpose Discovery

[75:46] Jay Shetty:

"The longer you stay on the wrong train, the more expensive it is to get back home."

Jay shares his life philosophy centered around embracing pivots—significant changes that redirect one’s path towards their true purpose. From becoming a monk to launching a successful podcast and writing books, Jay illustrates how each pivot contributed to his overall mission. He advises listeners to view transitions not as failures but as necessary steps toward fulfilling their potential, stressing the importance of adaptability and continuous growth.

7. Integrating Professional Success with Personal Fulfillment

[57:43] Jay Shetty:

"Everything is connected. I can't really break it apart."

In reflecting on balancing professional endeavors with personal relationships, Jay emphasizes the interconnectedness of different life aspects. He illustrates how caring for one’s family, community, and broader societal issues all contribute to a holistic sense of purpose. Jay advocates for a life where professional success is harmoniously integrated with personal fulfillment and social responsibility, ensuring that efforts in one area positively influence others.

8. Finding Purpose Through Diverse Experiences

[70:42] Jay Shetty:

"Purpose is not about finding the perfect job... it's about collecting experiences and connecting the dots."

Jay discusses the concept of purpose as an amalgamation of diverse experiences rather than a singular career choice. He shares his own varied job history, from newspaper delivery to corporate consulting, explaining how each role equipped him with unique skills that collectively contribute to his current purpose. Jay encourages listeners to value every experience as a building block towards their overarching mission, promoting the idea that purpose emerges from the synergy of varied life paths.

9. Practical Mindsets for Personal Growth

[63:53] Jay Shetty:

"Everything that's good for me is hard before I do it and easy after I do it."

Jay offers practical mindset shifts for overcoming challenges and fostering personal growth. He introduces mantras such as recognizing the temporary difficulty of beneficial actions and viewing setbacks as enhancements to one’s story. These cognitive strategies are designed to help individuals stay committed to their routines and purposes, even when faced with temporary discomfort or failure.

10. Encouraging Connection and Community

[84:06] Jay Shetty:

"When you get lost in your cocoon and your echo chamber, you miss out on the joy that comes from meaningful exchanges."

Concluding the episode, Jay highlights the importance of community and meaningful connections. He announces his upcoming podcast tour across North America and Canada, aiming to create spaces where like-minded individuals can connect, share experiences, and grow together. Jay underscores that true fulfillment comes from engaging with others who share similar values and purpose, fostering a supportive and enriching environment for personal and collective growth.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jay Shetty [02:21]: "No one starts in an arena. Everyone starts at zero..."
• Jay Shetty [07:46]: "Your passion is for you... your purpose is what you give."
• Jay Shetty [30:21]: "Being lonely is the weakness of being alone, but solitude is the strength of being alone."
• Jay Shetty [21:11]: "Authenticity is me being honest about what I care about and what I don't do."
• Jay Shetty [50:41]: "Love is something that has to be earned rather than shared."
• Jay Shetty [75:46]: "The longer you stay on the wrong train, the more expensive it is to get back home."
• Jay Shetty [57:43]: "Everything is connected. I can't really break it apart."
• Jay Shetty [70:42]: "Purpose is not about finding the perfect job... it's about collecting experiences and connecting the dots."
• Jay Shetty [63:53]: "Everything that's good for me is hard before I do it and easy after I do it."
• Jay Shetty [84:06]: "When you get lost in your cocoon and your echo chamber, you miss out on the joy that comes from meaningful exchanges."

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Conclusion: In this episode of "On Purpose with Jay Shetty," listeners are guided through a journey of self-discovery, emphasizing the importance of mindset shifts, embracing solitude, understanding the true nature of love, and continually pivoting towards one's purpose. Jay Shetty's personal anecdotes and profound insights offer a roadmap for those feeling stuck in their current situations, inspiring them to collect experiences, stay resilient, and connect deeply with themselves and others to ultimately uncover and live their true purpose.

Transcript

[Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jay Shetty]

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[Jay Shetty]

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[Host]

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[Advertiser]

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[Jay Shetty]

Shetty Jay Shetty the one, the only Jay Shetty.

[Co-Host]

Today we have bestselling author, motivational speaker and big time podcaster Jay Shetty who's out on let y' all know now out on his all purpose live tour right now. Speaking of that man, I think it's so cool Jay, when you show the pictures of how it started to how it's going and I actually counted the people in one of the pictures. It was only 12 to be in the position that you're in now. When you started out on this journey, how could you ever have imagined that it would end up where you are now? Touring the country, touring the world in some senses and people pile into arenas to see you.

[Host]

I don't think you could ever imagine it. And that's what's beautiful about it. I think the challenge today is everyone has too much pressure. Every video has to have a million views. Everything you post has to get lots of engagement. Everything you share has to get lots of attention. When I started giving my first talks, I was in a room like the corner of this, the size of the corner of this room and the first time I went to speak, zero people showed up. So I just practiced to the four walls. And the second time I showed up, no one showed up. And so I practiced to the four walls. And the third time, I realized I had to fire the person who was putting the flyers out because they obviously weren't doing a good job. But for years, nearly 10 years before I posted a video, I was speaking to groups of small rooms. I was speaking to groups of three people, five people, 10 people. And I'll be honest with you, I never, ever felt, why is it only 10 people? I never, ever felt, oh, it's only 20 people today. I would have loved it to be 50 or 100, don't get me wrong. But I never thought it needed to be more than that. I was just happy that anyone would take time out of their day to come and hear about things that were meant to be good for them. But, you know, it wasn't, hey, here's how to do this, or here's how to get rich, or here's it was, here's how to improve your life. And so for me, those years of spending hours and hours and hours with people, roughly 10 years later, when I post my first video and I start to have the groundswell experience of more people finding out about my work, I live in gratitude. Every day, I post those to show people that no one starts in an arena. Everyone starts at zero. And the reason why we don't start is not because we're scared of starting at zero. We're scared of people watching us start at zero. We're scared of the opinions of people around us starting at zero. We're not scared of starting from scratch. We're scared of our friends seeing us start from scratch. And I just want to remind people that everyone started at zero. You did. You did, you did. And everyone on planet earth did. And that means you can do it as much as I have.

[Co-Host]

Hey, Chan, by the way, I just want to say this. This is the first time Fred's voice has been out sexy during our show.

[Advertiser]

Oh, yeah, that London. That London is sexy. Now I see. I can see it. I wanted to ask you about motivational speaking and spiritual advisors. What about on the other? Why do people need them? I'm a. I don't. Not a pessimist, but I'm a. You know, I'm a person that thinks about it. Like, I don't talk to anybody. Like, this is. This is probably my therapy with us doing this.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Advertiser]

What about on the other side? Why do people need you to get them going? Like, bro, tighten up.

[Host]

You know what's really Interesting is when you're doing it, you don't think that's what you're doing. So when I first started learning from the monks, I was just trying to share what they were teaching me because I thought it was valuable. It's almost like if someone told you, hey, there's this really cool thing, there's this cool spot, there's this great movie, there's this great song, there's this great rapper, there's this great artist. If someone introduced you to that, you'd start talking about it. Cause it was cool. And so for me, wisdom was cool. And so I was just sharing it because it changed my life and had an impact on me, and I thought it would help other people. So from my side, you don't even see yourself that way. You. You just see yourself as a spiritual dealer, because you're just sharing what's helping you and you want it to help other people. So from my side, I don't look at myself as that. I think for people, what happens is we're all looking for people who represent what we're chasing, who represent what we're pursuing, who represent what we admire. And I think the thing is, everyone needs someone or something to believe in. Now. I don't want people to believe in me. I want them to believe in the wisdom. So that's my responsibility to make it very clear. I don't want you to believe in me. I'm flawed, I'm human, I have weaknesses. But the wisdom has lasted for 5,000 years. There's nothing in the world that has lasted apart from the world, the planet, for 5,000 years. I remember talking about the Bhagavad Gita, which is the book that I reference a lot in my books. I was speaking about it with a guy that I'd met, and he was big in business, and he said to me after the interview, this was years ago, he said to me, because how long did you say, that book's been around? I said, 5,000 years. He goes, oh, there must be truth in it if it's lasted 5,000 years. You think about the best music artists, they're not going to last 5,000 years. You think about the best movies, they're not going to last 5,000 years. Well, I'm definitely not going to last 5,000 years. So the fact that something has stood the test of time, that's worth sharing. So I'm trying to get people to believe in that, because that is actually going to change their life. Them believing in me or another person or whatever is Kind of insignificant and irrelevant.

[Co-Host]

You also try to get people to believe in their purpose because you speak about passion being what you like and purpose being what you give. Take us back to the moment when you say you were just in the room waiting for people. You were staring at the four walls, right? If your purpose wasn't greater than your passion, would we be doing this interview today?

[Host]

That's a great question. The purpose is what drives you. Because when you're doing your passion, there may not be the result immediately. And so for me, the way I like to explain it is your passion is for you, your passion is doing something that brings you joy. It could be baking, could be photography, could be organizing your kid's birthday. It could be coaching them, you know, at football or soccer or whatever it may be that could be your passion. But as soon as you start doing it to improve other people's lives, that's where it becomes a purpose. When you start connecting it with making someone else's day better. So instead of just baking for you, you're now baking for the homeless. Instead of just baking for you, you're now baking for the community. Instead of just taking pictures for yourself, you start sharing it so that people who don't have the money to travel that far can now see what it looks like to experience it. All of a sudden, you start to get that feedback and you realize you're meant for more. You're made for more. You're here for more. For me, I would have kept going, and I did keep going for 10 years of sharing it in small rooms, because I saw impact on one person. And I think if anyone wants to build a product, a business, a service, a show, you've got to see how it impacts one person before you can impact 1 million people. If your product can't change one person's life, it's never going to change a million people's lives, because the feedback you get from that one person is everything. That one person could help you improve your product, your service, your energy, your show, more than anyone. I'm sure you guys have had it like you've had. Somebody watches every Pivot podcast, right? Every episode, they're like, you know what? I really liked it when you guys did that. I wasn't sure when you guys did that. And same for me. People will be like, I really like it when you share your opinion. I really like it when you stay true to your values. That's what helps you keep going. So to me, I kept going because there was always one person who was being Moved. And even today, when I'm speaking to a large audience or an arena, I'm visualizing being in that small room with three to five people because that's how intimate I want it to feel. I want it to feel like this. This is special. Just the intimacy you guys have created here. This is special. And I want people in a room full of thousands to feel like this because this is what we're all craving. No one's craving to be in a room full of thousands of people. Everyone's craving this eye contact, this kind of connection, this kind of space. And it's our job. And that's what you guys do so well here. Whenever I watch your clips, this is how I feel. I feel this close to you. Before I met you, I felt like I knew you.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because I'd seen so many of your guys clips and it felt like you guys were genuine, sincere, you were doing this for the right reason. And so I think we've got to give that. Give people that experience. And that's what I've always tried to do, whether it was five people or 5,000.

[Co-Host]

Jay, I look at you, man. The finely manicured hair, right? The beard always taped up, obviously the gear. And I see you in Bad Boys and moving around and it's like, man, like this dude's kind of like me. Make sure his hair is nice, he makes sure his clothes are tight, right? He gonna stay clean. And I see the lifestyle you live now, and I try to just put my mind and say, okay, Jay Shetty, after being college educated, decided to follow the monastic way. What was it about that lifestyle that drew you to the ashram?

[Host]

When I met my monk teacher, I saw that he dedicated his life to mastering his emotions and his mind and serving other people. And that's what attracted me. I felt that. That felt like a life worth pursuing. When I met him, I remember I'd met people who were rich and famous and successful, but I don't think I'd met anyone who was content and happy in their own skin. And my monk teacher didn't have any of those other things, but he was happy in who he was. And I was like, I want that. Like, that feels like the life I want to have. And he graduated also from iit, which is the MIT of India. So he went to one of the best colleges in the country. For example, the current CEO of Google went to that university. Like that's the level of institution. And he gave that all up to be a monk. So I was thinking, and I was at College at the time. And I was thinking, wait a minute, if I'm going to aspire to get a job like that, this guy's given it up. There's something amazing about him. So to me, it was truly the fascination. And I'm sure you've had it in sports, I'm sure you've had it in business, where you see someone and you just like the way they move and you think, how are you that happy, that peaceful, that content? And I just wanted to know. And so to me, it was as simple as finding one person who is living differently. And I always say to people, everyone needs to find their monk. And what I mean by that is, who's the one person you haven't met yet that's going to change the trajectory of your life? Who's the one person who embodies what you believe life is about? It might not be a monk, it might be something else, but everyone has to find that. And for me, mental stability, resilience and peace and service to others have always felt like the best pursuits. And now when you're talking about, you know, the hair or the clothes or whatever it is, I'm giving myself permission to be all of myself. So I enjoy presenting myself. Well, I like living an intentional life. I think the way we dress, the way we appear, everything's about intention. And that's what mindfulness is. Mindfulness, ultimately, is, am I mindful about what I wear, what I think about how I show up, what energy I walk into the room with? If I'm kind to people, that's what mindfulness is about. So to me, everything from, like, this room has been mindfully designed. I walked in and I felt happy, I felt good. I felt it was comfortable, it was inviting. But let's say you were like, oh, it doesn't matter. It only matters what's on the inside. We'll just sit in a black room. Yeah, well, that's going to affect your mindset. So mindfulness also means focusing on the outside and the inside. And I think immature mindfulness is like, oh, it only matters what's on the outside. And materialism is, it only matters what's on the outside. So I think that's the mistake we make as humans. We think, oh, if I'm spiritual, it means only the inside matters, and if I'm material, only the outside matters. And intentional mindful living is they both affect each other. If I'm in a messy outside space, I'm going to be messy up here, and if I have a messy world here, it doesn't matter how clean my outside is. I'll never be at peace. And that's what I learned in the monastery for sure.

[Co-Host]

I love that man.

[Advertiser]

Monkism, is it like the fight club where you can't talk about the fight club? Like I know how to become a cripple of blood. You get jumped in. What's the process of becoming a monk? Like you meet your advisor, your monk teacher.

[Host]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Advertiser]

And then you become a monk. What is that process?

[Host]

Yeah, no, there's a system for sure. And it's not like Fight Club. You can totally talk about it. So there's no.

[Co-Host]

And you don't get jumped in.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Advertiser]

Do they jump you in? Cause them, I seen some, I seen some with some yoked up.

[Host]

The initiation is the daily practice and commitment to it. So you're Waking up at 4am, you're meditating for four to eight hours a day. You sleep on the floor on a thin mat and have a sheet. When you're in India, you have a mosquito net because the mosquitoes will bite you all night. So you've got to be inside of this tent like thing. You get two sets of robes. You wear one, you wash one. All your possessions fit inside a gym locker. And you live that practice. You eat what you're given. You don't get to choose. There's no menu. You don't get to say, today I want pizza. And it doesn't exist. Everyone eats the same thing. There's no space that's yours. So we'd be in a room like this and there's 30 men sleeping in it. And you just put your mat down and go to sleep. It's not like that's my corner. The idea is to lose a sense of I, me and mine. And so you have very, very few possessions. And it's that daily practice and commitment that if they see you're dedicated to that allows you to become a monk.

[Advertiser]

But it's like, let's ride to the monastery. Like I've seen monasteries.

[Host]

No one get it.

[Advertiser]

Yeah, that process of it, like you being a monk and your book, you know, the mindset, the like, okay, I met this dude and then now I'm sleeping on the mat with 30 dudes sitting in a room with me. Like that, that process. Like what? Why like. But what, what is that? Those steps, Is it something mental? Then the shaving of the hair and all that stuff. Like the day, the process from living a normal life, having an apartment, graduating from one of the best schools. And now I Have no possessions. I'm in a locker and I'm sleeping on the floor with 29 dudes.

[Host]

So I was so young when I did it that there was a sense of naive following. And what I mean by that is I was just like, yeah, let's give it a go. Let's try it out. Like, let's test it out. I kind of went in there as an experiment. I was like, can I do this? What does it look like? And I think I had that openness of that age where you aren't necessarily asking all these questions. You're kind of just like, let's see how it goes. And to me, it was as simple as I spoke to the monk in England, which is where I first met him, and then he invited me to India to spend time with him. So I flew over during my Christmas breaks and college vacations, and I would spend time with him at the monastery. And now at that time, I would get a more comfortable room and I'd do the practices so they didn't throw me right into the deep end. But I did that so often that I got so used to it that when I graduated, I knew what I was getting myself into. It's almost like you've seen the spaces you're going to sleep in, you've seen what it looks like. And I truly, if I'm completely honest, I didn't give it too much thought. I was just like, I'm open to it. Let's see if it works. Let's test it out. And so to me, the mindset was being open, not being skeptical and being a human guinea pig and going, let's see if this proves to be true. And the more I did it, the more I gained confidence in it. Because, I mean, to me, a kid from London waking up at 4:00am, you know, as a college student, that's unheard of. You're getting back at 4am right from going out. And so all of a sudden I'm waking up at 4am But I literally said, I'm just going to do this properly and see if it works. And I think that's something I'd like to encourage, especially young people to do, is if you're going to try something out, go all in and test it out for seven days, and if it doesn't work, don't do it again. But the problem is we never go all in. We do it for a day. If I said to you, I really want to learn about American football, right? I really want to understand the game, well, if I Come to one game a year, what am I going to learn? If you go to one meditation a year, what are you going to learn? I'm not going to learn anything. But if I sat with you every single day, if I followed you around, if I followed the players around, then I'm actually going to learn something. Right. And so I think it's that intimacy and that connection to a coach, a mentor, a guide that makes it easier to understand what's happening and what's going on. So it's an immersive experience. Does that make sense? I want to make sure I answer your question. It's a great question.

[Advertiser]

Yeah, it seems crazy to do, but you wanted to dive in, and that's totally.

[Host]

It is crazy. It was. So now when I look back, I'm like, what was I thinking? But I had that young, naive spirit of this guy has something I don't have, and I want it. And you could think about how that mindset can get you into trouble. Right. When you're young, I'm sure I saw lots of guys who had amazing cars and rims and, you know, clothes and whatever it is. And you can get involved in the wrong things because you also want that. I just was really lucky that the person I was inspired to be like was a monk. People always ask me, how did you have that at such a young age? I truly think it's because of their aura and their presence. I don't. It's a little bit of me. I have a good heart. I was raised to be a good man. My mom raised me well. But they are just so powerful in their presence that you just couldn't help but want to live that way. And I'm lucky that it was the right people, not the wrong people, because that naive mindset can end up, you know, in completely the other direction.

[Co-Host]

I just want to add to that, too, Jay, before I get into the immersion, because you're here now, you're one of the boys, and this is more so for Channing. But I just want to say, before I get into that question, is you're not your thoughts. Right. You're not your emotions. You're the observer of those things. And a young Jay, you were able to observe, you know, what you wanted when you met this monk, and it allowed you to discover your identity and your. Your real purpose. If I'm on the right line, absolutely. But in terms of Channing, I want to go back to when you say being mindful. Right. In your appearance and your approach, what drives that? Because Channing Calls it insecurity. Oh, this conversation more so than awareness because he feels that the way Ryan dresses or the way I might dress or the things I wear, which comes across as materialistic, but it's something that I like. Right. How do you.

[Host]

What's. What.

[Co-Host]

What drives your mindfulness? It's. I'm sure it's not an insecurity more so than it is awareness itself of wanting to present yourself this way.

[Host]

The way I like to think about it is two people can do the exact same thing, but for completely different reasons. Let's say we were at a charity event and two celebrities signed a million dollar check for the charity. We don't know what's happening inside their head. One of them signed it because they want to be seen as charitable. The other person signed it because they really believe in the charity. We don't know, only they do. And that's how it works with everything in life. You two people go to the same job every day. One person does it because they love the job. The other person does it to put food on the table. You could see two people dressed in three piece suits. One does it because they're insecure, and one does it because it represents who they are and how they want to be presented. No one knows. The only person that knows is the person wearing the suit, wearing the watch. Giving the money in charity. Externally, it's both. It could be whatever. And so sometimes we see people and we project our own insecurities onto them. So I'm not saying that about Chani. I don't know you well enough.

[Advertiser]

So y' all look at me. I just. I'm gonna go off. What Jay said. Some people do it for insecurity. Other is how they want to be presented. Presented to who? Other people. If the world was blind, would you dress up?

[Host]

So I'll give you an example. I'll give you a really good example. My friends back in London, rip the way. What word do you use? Like dis? I don't know. What's the word? Like, what's the word in the rip you say? Ripton. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I'm just making sure I'm not speaking too much British slang. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, my friends back at home will see me on the red carpet and destroy me in the group chat. Right? They'll post it up and be like, what is up with your hair, bro? Like, you know, like, what are you wearing? Why are you wearing that? Why are you looking like a girl? Like, you know, like that. My friends will Completely destroy me in the group chat. So I get no clout for dressing the way I am. Like, I have taken some risks. My wife, we made a video last week, which wasn't my idea, but it was Taylor who's here with me. So Taylor did. She set me up. She invited me into a space with my wife, and she had printed out all my looks in the last nine years of my public figure career. Like, since I left the monastery and since my career took off, and she got my wife to rate my looks and roast me on each one of them, my wife doesn't even like the stuff I wear. So if I'm completely honest, and this is why I like Ryan, because he has good taste, right? So this is Ryan compliments me on what I wear because he has good taste. You know, a lot of people don't have good taste. So actually, I wear a lot of stuff that no one wants to see me. And so what I'm trying to say is that actually I would argue that some of the things. And I'm talking for myself, I can only talk for myself. I'd argue and say a lot of the stuff I wear, the people around me don't even like it, but I like it. It makes me feel comfortable. It makes me feel confident. It makes me feel like I appreciate. Like, for me, I also like to dress up to feel how I want to feel in this space. So I'm comfortable in this. I feel casual in it. I feel like myself. I feel relaxed. Do I want people to think I care about my appearance? Of course I do. Definitely. Do I care what people think about my appearance? Of course I do. I'm not beyond that. And I think it's the honesty of that which is what makes me authentic, not the not caring. I think we live in a world where we think, oh, if that person don't care about what anyone thinks, they're authentic. No, authentic is me being honest about what I care about and what I don't do. I care if Ryan thinks I dress well. Yes, of course I do. But that's honesty. That is authenticity. I think today we've made authenticity feel like, oh, I don't care about anyone. I'm above it all. I'm beyond it. That's not authenticity. That's just fake. Name me one person, by the way, when I walked around as a monk, that's when I really didn't care, because we had robes, we had shaved heads, and there was nothing attractive about our appearance. And I remember walking through city centers. We traveled across Scandinavia, teaching meditation in Copenhagen and Stockholm and Oslo. And I'd be on the streets and people are laughing at you. People are looking at you like you're dressed weird. Like I've done that too. So I have lived in a world of no one care that I didn't care what people thought. But now at this point, I'd rather be honest and say I like taking pride in my appearance. I like dressing a certain way. Some people hate it, some people love it. But I think that no one knows what's going on inside someone's mind. And that's what's most interesting to me, is that we can all have projections of why people dress the way they do, talk the way that they do or do what they do. And then you realize what you said. I think the inner reflection is more important to me than what we think of others. So the inner reflection is, am I doing this for the praise? Because if I am, I'm going to be let down by it. Because sometimes people are going to notice it and sometimes they're not. So do I keep doing it when there's no praise or do I only do it when there is praise? Am I doing this because it makes me feel comfortable or am I willing to wear something completely uncomfortable in order to impress people? Right. So I never wear a suit these days because I don't like wearing suits. I don't feel comfortable in them. Right. It doesn't make me feel at ease.

[Advertiser]

He wears the tight crotch, suits them, can't be comfortable.

[Co-Host]

Why are you looking at my crotch?

[Advertiser]

Because I know you got a yeast infection. Jay, I gotta ask you with the honesty too.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Advertiser]

Because I've been. They've killed me on this show before. We were doing this a long time.

[Host]

Oh, they usually roast you.

[Advertiser]

No, no, no. But when I tell dudes like you're a good looking dude, like, what's the boy name? Denzel Ward. Like, I see a dude, I'm like, bro, you a fine dude. Like Jason Momoa, Idris Elba, I got some dudes that we could raise a baby together. But like, do you think you're a very good looking man? The pretty eyes, like in the way you talk and the little, you know, the accent. Would you be as successful if you were a big old fat ugly guy?

[Host]

I don't know. There's two sides to this. One side is I'm also an Indian man. You don't see a lot of brown Indian people having huge public profiles. Like, it's just not that as common. Right. It's Just not. I mean, to be honest, I think most Indian people, when they come to America, it's like most people don't even know where to place you. Born and raised in London, there's lots of Indian people, so it's very common. But in the media you didn't really see that. And so if you think about America, the most successful Indian person in America of all time is Deepak Chopra, like the only person I can think of. And then there would have been like a musician, Jay, Sean. More recently, there's Riz Ahmed and Dev Patel, both amazing actors, but there's few and far between. Like, there's a handful of South Asian people. I think it's a hard question to answer because I don't know is the reality. But what I would say is that subjectively speaking, there's plenty of people who've succeeded in life not based on their appearance as well, and they would say that themselves. And I don't think anyone is attractive to everyone. Like, people always meet me and go, oh, you're a lot shorter in person, right? Which means that there's a presence on screen that like, people, people expect me to be bigger, but that's a personality thing. That's not my shape or size. Some people also tell me that I look more fat on social media. People meet me and they're like, oh, you, you're really lean, you fit in person. And I'm like, oh, wait, what do I look like on screen? And then, you know, so I think, you know, appearance and stuff is such a. It's so subjective, right? I'm sure you met someone that like, like, I get it. There's people that I think are attractive or whatever, and some people think they're ugly. It's. It's such a messy thing. Ultimately what I think it is is it does come down to energy and personality and spirit. And that's what people hold on to with people. I think that's what works. When you look at the biggest YouTubers in the world today, look at some of the biggest podcasters, look at some of the biggest comedians, it's people telling great stories and people who make you feel something. And I think that's what wins in the online world because back in the day, people were choosing who people followed, right? There would be an exec in a suit that said, you're good looking, you're ugly. The good looking person gets to be front of house, the ugly person has to be back of house. No one decides that anymore. The public decides who goes up and down so to me, when the public gets to decide now, you have to make someone feel something for them to keep being involved. And I've been doing this for nine years online, and my goal always is to make people feel something. By the way, if you look at my old videos, I didn't have, like, this. I'm wearing a T shirt. I've got, you know, people. I remember my first video we posted. People were like, why has he got a wind machine? Dude, it wasn't a wind machine. It was the wind. The wind's just blowing my hair because I didn't have a team to produce the thing. My first video, I'm sitting there with a boom mic stuck into a backpack to hold it up, and my friend's got his camera. Like, that's all we had. And so when I started out, we didn't have, like, I wasn't. I wasn't, you know, wearing cool clothes. I didn't. My hair wasn't perfect. I was just some guy. So I think, to me, it's what we make people feel. To me, that's what people connect with.

[Co-Host]

Life is about connection, and we are all searching for it in some way and in something. And I thought you said something really profound about the language we use, right? There's two different ways to describe being alone. One is solitude, which can be looked at as a positive. And then there's loneliness, which obviously has a negative connotation. How does someone who is alone or spending time alone decipher between the two?

[Host]

I think in today's society, people would rather be in the wrong relationship than be alone. People would rather settle for less than they deserve than be alone. People would rather be in a toxic relationship than be alone. We've made being alone feel so scary and feel so bad that people don't even think about it. 80% of people will pick out their phone in a crowd just not to feel lonely. You just walk in through a crowd and you just take your phone out because you don't want to feel like you're alone. People struggle to eat on their own. When have you ever seen someone go out, sit at a table by themself, and eat food? If we do that, we have to get our phone out. It's very rare. So we've made it since we were young. If you think about it, if you were the kid eating lunch on your own table alone, you were considered the loner or the weirdo. If you turn up to a wedding and you don't have a plus one or you just got divorced, or you just broke up, everyone's looking at you like, oh, are you okay? Like, poor you. It's like if you don't have someone next to you, you're always seen as weaker, less than or incomplete. We even say that. We say, find someone who completes you. What does that mean? It means you're incomplete without someone. So we've made people feel that if you're alone, you're incomplete. So we've villainized being alone. But Paul Tillich wrote about it, and the monk teachers reminded me that there's two words for being alone. One is lonely and one is solitude. Paul Tillich says that being lonely is the weakness of being alone, but solitude is the strength of being alone. So solitude is saying, actually, if I can be comfortable in my own company, that's successful. If I can like the thoughts in my mind and the conversations I have in my head when I'm alone, then I've had success in my life. And that's what the monks were trying to train you to do that instead of always looking for the next bit of praise, the next bit of validation, the next bit of approval, how do I feel so centered and happy and content with who I am that I'm not looking for other people to fill the parts of me that are gaps? And I actually look for other people so we can enhance and grow together. And so to me, solitude is something we all need. And by the way, we did this in my last show. Two years ago, I went on a world tour. We did nearly 40 cities across the world. And my first segment was something I was so excited to do. So what we did is I asked people in the audience who's the most addicted to their phone? And we broke it down to the person who looks at their phone basically every two minutes. So I'd bring them out. The audience, out of 5,000 people would take one person onto stage. And I asked them how that feels. And they usually feel pretty bad about it naturally, as we all do. And I told them, well, they shouldn't feel bad about it because they're just the honest one. Everyone else is lying, right? You know, everyone's addicted to their phone. And then what I did is I gave them one question, and what they didn't know is we locked them into a cave on stage. We had this big box come out, almost like a magician's box, and we locked them in it, in pitch black, gave them noise, canceling headphones so they can't hear anything. I didn't even tell them how long they were going to be in there. This person was in there for 15 minutes alone. We had a night vision camera so we could see how they were settling in them. And I left them with one question. The question was, what's the one thing you value that you've been devaluing lately? What's really important to you, but you keep brushing it aside. I left them with that. Fifteen minutes later, people would come out of this solitude. Some people would be in tears, some people would be in deep reflection. Some people would have had a moment. It was so good that people thought we faked the whole thing. Like people afterwards coming up to me going, you must have faked that. I was like, trust me, I'm in Australia. I've never been to Australia. We just picked someone out of the audience. People had huge experiences. And the reason I did that was to show people that when you take reflection into solitude, you come out with value. Right? We've been told if you're alone, you don't get any value from it. These people were getting so much value from it because they had a pointed focus and reflection. And then afterwards we'd have a conversation about it. People were talking about how they valued their family and they don't care about them. They haven't been focusing on them. People talked about their kids, they. People talked about themselves. It was really beautiful and we've got video footage to prove it. And what was amazing about it was just everyone walked away, realizing that solitude and the discomfort of solitude was helpful. So to me, it's all about showing people that they have the answers within themselves, not showing them that I have the answers and solitude has the answers. You can't hear your voice when you're surrounded by all of this noise. You can't hear your inner voice when you're surrounded by opinions. You can't hear your voice when you're always asking the group chat, what should I wear? What should I do? Where should we go? You never get to know yourself because you never had to. I'm really loving where this conversation is going. Let's pause for a quick break for our sponsors and we'll be right back.

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[Host]

There's.

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[Host]

Soaring.

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Thanks for sticking with me.

[Host]

Let's get into it.

[Co-Host]

How do you get people to embrace that solitude and that stillness? Because the world, it's a constant reminder of what hustle, how it can reward you, right? And then technology is forever evolving. You don't want to feel missed out. So how do you get someone to, like, I'm the person that's on my phone, right? All the time. If you ask them, I'm that guy that would have been pulled out of the stand, out of the crowd. But how do you get someone to embrace that stillness that you will hope that they could search for?

[Host]

I think a lot of people think that stillness and solitude means doing nothing and just sitting there. And that's not the goal. The goal is we're going to focus your attention on one thing. And actually, that's where beast mode comes from. To me, Beast mode doesn't come from running around, being busy. Beast mode comes from having super focus on one thing. There's this great quote I love from Bruce Lee where he said, I'm not scared of the man who's practiced 15,000 kicks one time each. I'm scared of the man who's practiced one kick 15,000 times. Right? Because if you've practiced something once, every time, you're not scared of that person, because they can't do it that well. So the person who's running around trying to do everything, I'm not scared of that person. They're not winning. I'm scared of the person who stood at the hoop and shot 100 free throws every hour for the next 10 days. That person's scary. So that's what stillness and solitude is, is. Can I focus, laser focus on one thing? Whether that's the mindset, whether that's clarity, whether it's strategy, whether it's my breath, whatever it is, that person's scary. That person's undefeatable because that person has done the same thing again and again and again. Does that make sense? It's like stillness and solitude isn't. I'm just sitting there doing nothing. Time's going by. I'm wasting time. It's no. It's one pointed attention energetically. I was talking to Carmelo Anthony yesterday, and he was saying that the best games he played was when his coaches showed him a video of, like, 300. When, like, Gerard Butler's, like, shouting Sparta or like, you know, the best games he played was when he was in the zone. It wasn't the best games, wasn't the ones where he's, like, just doing a million things. It was like he was shown a video that made him feel like a gladiator, that made him know what he had to go and do out there. That's what solitude gives you the space to do. Solitude gives you the space to go, what is the energy I'm trying to create? But you can't create that if you're hustling, running around, trying to win at everything and do everything. And that's what I want people to think of. Stillness and solitude as it's priming the beast inside of you to do what Bruce Lee said, which is, I'm so focused that, you know, I don't even need to move that much to destroy my enemy. Like, that's the energy you can create in solitude.

[Co-Host]

You know, when I look at you and your wife now, right, it's like your wife has her own thing, you have your own thing, and then you come together and you guys do your thing. You know, you met her while you were in the monastery, and then now you're out, and you get an opportunity to develop this relationship. Was it difficult to be in something where it became about us when for three years, you were dealing in the world of mindfulness, of understanding, solitude, of having a certain level of peace by yourself, and now you had to give yourself to someone else?

[Host]

Yeah, I actually met her before I became a monk.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Host]

And we never dated. I just met her. I introduced her to my sister. They became friends. And so when I came back from the monastery, her and my sister were best friends. And my sister was my wingman. So in my first book, I wrote my dedication. I dedicated Think Like a Monk to my wife. And the dedication says, to my wife, who's more monk than I'll ever be. And I mean that my wife. My wife is way more monk than I'll ever be. I had to work to be a monk. My wife is a monk. Like, she's naturally that way. And I got lucky and fortunate that I was able to find a partner who actually brings me peace rather than brings me drama. And I always say that the right person will reduce trauma and the wrong person will increase trauma, right? The right person brings you peace. The wrong person brings you chaos. The right person brings. Brings you stability. The wrong person brings you inconsistency. And so to me, I found someone who was able to match that energy. But it was hard in the beginning because I came out of the monastery as a bit of an avoidant. What I mean by that was I used to constantly say to my wife, you know, I'd be okay without you. I used to be happy before this, you know, I'm okay without you. And I didn't realize how much damage that did to connection, because I felt that with strength and confidence. It was just avoidance. It was the avoidance of connection. I'd be like, you know, I'd be happy on my own. You know, I'm happy on my own. I was good by myself. It's not that. That's not true. It's that when you're trying to connect with someone, that isn't the language and the approach that creates connection. So what did that do that created a relationship? When my wife was like, well, I'm okay without you too, right? And now you're like two strangers living in the same house. You both think, oh, we're better without each other. We're fine without each other. So. So that's what the challenge was, is that I came out as an avoidant and created an avoidant attachment style in my own relationship. And it took me a long time to realize, and partly it was me grieving a past life. And I'm sure you felt this in sport, business, and everything else in your lives. When you're retiring, there's a grieving of who you used to be. And so for me, leaving the monastery, I was grieving that life that I'd created for myself. And. And what you do is when you're grieving, you take that into the next life, and you carry that baggage into your next relationship. It took me a lot of years to say, actually, I'm just going to embrace. I'm a married man now. I'm not a monk anymore, and that's okay. And this is coming with new gifts, new blessings, new reflections. And this is going to make me a better monk, a better man, a better person. If I embrace it, rather than I keep holding on to this over here, there's a beautiful Zen teaching that says, whatever you're holding on to is what's holding you back. So if you're holding on to a past version of yourself, that's holding you back. If you're holding to a person in your past, that's holding you back. If you're holding on to a life that you once had, that's holding you back. So what's holding you back is something you're actually holding onto. But if you Just let it go and free it. You're free to move forward.

[Advertiser]

And Jay, I gotta ask you about the three year stretch in the monastery. You were in college, you were having a good time, understand you and then you got back into the world. There was three years. You didn't touch a woman or have no sex, nothing for three years. Nothing, bro, that's crazy.

[Host]

It is crazy.

[Advertiser]

Did you have to really meditate some nights, like, bruh, it's three years, Jay. That's nuts.

[Host]

You know what it is? There's an environment when you go to a place where people have meditated for decades. And some temples we went to in south of India, people have meditated for thousands of years and people have been celibate for thousands of years. There's an energy in that space that you can't conceive. The only way I can describe it, like, is like when you go to a stadium that you love and you just get pumped because you walk into the stadium and it has an energy because your greats played there and you won Super Bowls there or whatever it is. And you walk into that space. And so I think the energetic sphere that's created by the monks is what makes it easier. Was it hard for me? Of course it was. Was it unnatural? For me, of course it was. But there was a value in it and it was made easier in their association. There are certain things that are easier when you're surrounded by people, right? There's that. There's that famous quote that says, if you're surrounded by five rich people, you'll be the sixth. If you're surrounded by five smart people, you'll be the sixth dot if you're surrounded by five fit people, you'll be the sixth. And if you're surrounded by five idiots, you'll be the sixth. Right? You're going to be the sixth of whoever you are. So when you're surrounded by all these people that are committed to this practice, surprisingly, it becomes easier. But yes, there were times when I had to really lock in, when I felt weak, when I felt moments of vulnerability. For sure. You're so engaged. Positively. This is another trick for the mind. The mind can't give up something hard if it doesn't have something that it's connected to better. Right? So when you think about the first car you ever got, this is how I like to think about this. The first car I ever got. I'll have to show you a picture later. It's a red Vauxhall Corsa, which I don't even think they have the brand in America, but it's like this tiny little red Beetle looking thing, right? It was the first car I ever had. To me, that was a Ferrari. Cause I was a kid who just wanted a car. Like, I would be playing like 50 Cent the game while driving around in my red, tiny little Beetle looking car. And I felt like the coolest kid in town. And this is when you had the cassette tape that connected to the MP3 player and then, you know, played the song. And I used to feel so cool. Now when I look back at that picture, I mean, I look like an idiot. Like that car was, you know, whatever. But if someone told me to give up that car for nothing, I'd be like, are you kidding me? I'd never give it up. It's the best car in the world. Because for me, that's all I could afford. That was the best thing I could have. But if someone said, hey, I trade you at that time, I trade you a Mercedes for that car, I would have done it in an instant. Obviously, that's kind of what it's like where it's like you're addicted to this thing over here. You can't just give it up. Like, to make, to theoretically rationalize how you can give it up is impossible. But when someone's offering you something, when it's enlightenment, mindfulness, presence, the greatest emotional and mental mastery, and it's being offered to you, it's because of that that it becomes easier to not follow this distraction. If that makes sense. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Jay, you talked about your wife and yourself living in the same home as strangers. Did that help you create your book, the eight Rules of Love? When you. I think you talk about building and maintaining relationships. And I also want to ask you what's the most common misconception of love?

[Host]

So the book wasn't written from what I got right. The book was written from what other people got wrong that shared their stories with me. So I wrote the book not from what I got right about love, but from what I got wrong and the people that I interviewed and what they got wrong. Because I think it's really interesting to study people's challenges. The biggest misconception about love is that we've confused inconsistency with excitement. And we've confused stability with boredom. We've confused that if someone shows up with effort, that they're desperate. If someone shows up for us with time and energy, we think they need us. We think that if someone actually has space for us, then they must be the loser. We believe that Love means chasing someone who doesn't want to stay rather than being with someone who never wants to leave. The biggest misconception is that love is something that has to be earned rather than shared. And so what we do is we want to be with the person who keeps us on our toes, right? We've all met people who say I really want someone with values, but then they chase the person who doesn't give them validation. We've all met someone who says, I really want someone who's affectionate, but they chase the person who doesn't give them any attention. We've all met someone who says I really want someone who's present. But then you're chasing the person who never shows up on time. We're always chasing the person who doesn't give us what we want because we believe that's love. And that's the biggest misconception. And too many people are chasing all the wrong people. And the right person is standing right there ready to love them with all their heart. But they're boring, needy, desperate, and I'm not attracted to them. But wait, when you're going to be with someone for 5, 10, 15 years, I want the person who texts me back, I want the person who calls me back in 5, 10, 15 years time. I want the person who shows up on time. I want the person who wants to hear how my day was. I don't want the person who's never around. I don't want the person who disappears when it's hard, like that's not the person I want. And so people are choosing the sixth month pleasure versus the 60 year presence. And yeah, those six months are going to be the amazing six months. But guess what? You're going to have to keep doing those six months every six months.

[Co-Host]

Six months.

[Host]

And so you either date, you know, 30 people every six months for the rest of your life or you have one person or two people maybe. Because by the way, I also don't like to demonize divorce and breakups because I do believe it's honestly possible for people to outgrow each other and for people to grow apart. And I don't think we should demonize people who get divorced or break up or make it feel like a failure when actually it could be the best decisions of someone's life and the best decision for that other person. And I think we have to learn in society to be okay with that because a 50% of people are doing it anyway. So you're going to know someone who's gone through it And B, it's actually, we should realize it's more rare to stay with someone than it is to leave someone. It's way harder to find someone on planet Earth that you actually can stay with than it is to find someone that you probably will outgrow or break up with. So, you know, I think we've got to give people an easier time on that.

[Co-Host]

It's interesting because in reading the title of your book, it's, you know, find it, keep it, let it go. And it's almost one of those things. You read that title and you're like, well, damn, he going to get me to it, then teach me how to live when it's gone. But that is part of it. When you wrote that book, what sort of advice were you trying to give to people who are looking for love, who are trying to continue to build on their love, and also who are trying to let go of love lost?

[Host]

There's two things. The first is everyone at one point in their life will have to let go of someone they love, whether that be while that person's alive or while that person's about to pass away. Every single one of us is going to lose someone we love. And the hardest realization is when you recognize that you love someone, but you still have to let them go because you didn't have the other emotional skills to keep love right. You can love someone but not be good for them. And someone can love you but not be right for you because they don't have the other emotional skills that make love stay. Love's not enough. You need emotional maturity. You need personal mastery. You need self control. You need compassion. You need empathy. There is so much more needed to make love last. And so a lot of us are going to lose love because we didn't develop those other skills. You lose love to remind you that there are other skills to be developed as well. There are other habits that you need to build as well. And the number one habit that I encourage all people to realize is that we've put romantic love on a pedestal on planet Earth. We believe that romantic love is the number one type of love. If you look at all the spiritual traditions, they disagree. They believe that the number one type of love is a parent's love for their child. That's the deepest, most unconditional, selfless love that could possibly exist. But in humans, we've said romantic love is better than anything. So someone could be loved by their kid and love their kid. Someone could love their friends and be loved by their friends. Someone could love their brother or their sister and be loved by their siblings, but still feel incomplete because they don't have a partner. And I want to remind people that you need to value all of those forms of love as much as romantic love. Stop putting this hierarchy on love. Stop rating love. On a scale of romantic love is the best, family love is second, kids love is fifth. That's what's ruining love in our lives. I think people don't realize how much love they already have. And by the way, that will probably help you find romantic love. Whereas when you walk around thinking, I don't have love in my life, well, guess what? That's all you're gonna see.

[Advertiser]

Speaking of love, does your passion for helping others, your passion for, you know, spiritually guiding people, does that take away from your personal love relationships, your wife, your family? Because you're helping so many people? It's only so much energy. It's only so many hours in a day.

[Host]

That's a great question. Yeah. I've always felt like, in one sense, I always feel like I have so much parental energy because my work is so parental. Right. It's. It's almost like you're giving parental love through what I do every day. So I feel like the parental side of my life is very satisfied. But I still want to have kids with my wife because I think she'll be a great mom. I think that I'd like to create with her because I'd want to have a kid that's just like her, you know? So there's a beauty in that, too. I think about it the other way around. If you love your kid, you have to love their friends. Because if you don't love their friends, your kid is surrounded by friends who don't have love. And if you love your kid and you love their friends, you have to love their school. Because if you don't care about the school they go to, your kid is going to become like the school makes them. So if you love your kid and you love their friends and you care about their school, you've got to care about the city they grow up in, because what they see on the streets is what they're going to repeat. And then if you care about your kid and you care about their friends and you care about the school and you care about the city, you got to care about the country they grow up in, because the leaders they see are the people they're following. So if you actually care about your kid, you have to care about the world, because your kid is growing up in that world. And so I think people don't realize. They go, oh, I'm caring about my kids. But if you just care about your kids, you don't really get them anywhere because they're growing up in the world that you hate and that's not the world you want to create. And that's why I think so many people today are realizing it does matter who the leaders are. It does matter what they see on tv. It does matter who's represented. It does matter that people of color get a chance to have exec positions and leadership positions. It does matter that people are represented effectively on screen and off screen. It does matter that women are in boardrooms and are CEOs. All of this matters because your kid's going to grow up in that world. It's not good enough to say, I love my kid, I care about them, and because I just take care of them, everything's going to be okay. Now, I'm not saying everyone has the capacity to take care of everything, but the, the mom showing up at school to make sure the kids have support, that's making an impact, right? The the parent who's coaching their kid in little league, that's making an impact. The fact that I get to try and show love to the world is making an impact in my own way. So to me, it's all connected. I can't really break it apart, if that makes sense. Let's take a short pause to hear from some of our sponsors, then we'll get right back into it.

[Advertiser]

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[Host]

I hope you learned about some of our incredible partners. And let's jump back in.

[Co-Host]

When I do speak to schools, businesses, whatever, I like to lead with routine versus commitment because I think routines are vital for everyone. Much like yourself, as a monk, you believe in structure. I know. Think like a monk. You talk about routine. When things are challenging for you. Do you have like a personal mantra or something that kind of reminds you to get back in gear? Because in my speech about routine versus commitment, we all are going to have that. But the commitment reinforces the routine in those times when you don't feel like, you know, sticking to that routine. What's your personal mantra or guideline?

[Host]

Everything that is good for me is hard before I do it and easy after I do it. And everything that's bad for me is easy before I do it and is hard after I do it. Getting to the gym is hard. The feeling after leaving the gym is easy. Eating junk food is easy, but the feeling afterwards is hard. So I like to remind myself that if I don't feel like Going to the gym right now, that's how it's meant to feel. It's going to be hard if I don't feel like eating a salad right now. That's how it's meant to feel. It's hard because it's good for me. So anything that is good for my body and good for my mind is hard to do right now, but it bears benefits afterwards. And anything that is not great for me to do right now, it's going to be easy, but it's going to create lots of pain afterwards. And that reminder to me allows me to recognize it's okay. It's hard because it's good for me. So I turn to that when it's a bigger thing in life. A mantra that I love is, this only makes the story better. Whenever I fail or whenever I lose or whenever something goes wrong, I always say to myself, this only makes the story better. Because if you've failed, you've fallen, you've made mistakes, you're human, it's more relatable when you tell your story. One day more people will connect to you. Whereas if your story was just win after win after win after win, you're unrelatable. And so it only makes the story better.

[Co-Host]

Jay, you seem really traditional in a lot of ways and then so progressive. I think when you have a mindset that's deeply rooted in history, some of those things are going to carry over. But you also seem to understand, okay, as life change and as life evolves, we have to. We had Jason Kelsey on the show and he talked about the famous swipe right or left, whatever way it is that got him. Kylie, you know, for you, when you think of like dating apps and the way that people try to meet one another now, how much better do you think that makes it or do you think it's harder that way?

[Host]

You have to look at through what's actually changed. So we have more choices. But all the studies show that humans are bad with more choice. The paradox of choice is a recent study that shows how when humans have more things to choose from, they always make bad choices. And so I think there's a big challenge in the fact that now you're exposed to more people. 25, 30 years ago, most people married someone in a 5 mile radius of where they grew up. So your friend knew them, your brother knew them, your family knew them, the person down the street knew them, someone knew them and that's how you met them. Today, people are getting married to people from different cities, different countries, different cultures. And that comes with a set of challenges. Not that it's bad. It just requires more maturity. It requires more openness and wisdom. And so what I think we need to do is we need to be really clear about the values and vision of the relationship we want, because that hasn't changed. You could have married the person next door 25 years ago, and they could have been abusive, they could have been a narcissist, and they probably were. And we just didn't think about it because people got arranged marriages and they didn't talk about it. It wasn't public knowledge. Just because you married the person next door doesn't mean they were right for you. That wasn't a good thing either. So I think we also have this nostalgic view of, oh, you know, the eyes crossed at the grocery store and I dropped a bag of potatoes and they came and picked them up with me and oh, my God, it was so romantic. It's like, yeah, but that person was a psycho. Like, you didn't. You didn't know that.

[Co-Host]

Right?

[Host]

Exactly. Exactly right. It's like, but you didn't. You don't talk about that, like, part in the past that people didn't talk about this. Right. You have so many marriages that have physical abuse, domestic violence, verbal abuse going on background behind the scenes. No one even knows about it. But, oh, we met them next door. They were my sister's friend. Like, you know, it was awesome. Like, we have this romantic view of the past, and I don't think that's healthy either. We have to move with the times. So one of the things I built recently is I partnered up with Match.com to build a values based matching system. What this does is it allows you to do a short test we created where you get to learn your values, and everyone who joins that part of the app does the same. The goal for this was not to say, I want you to find someone with the same values. The goal for me was, now at least you can see someone's values upfront. And when you meet them, you can check whether their values are aligned. Because here's the thing, no one walks around with their values stuck on the top of their forehead. It takes years to figure someone's values out. But what if that becomes the thing? You start talking about checking out when you meet someone and they say, oh, yeah, I love my family. Family's number one priority. Then you go to them, when did you last speak to your mom? And they're like, I don't know, I haven't spoken to her for two years, it's like, oh, all right, this person's not in alignment. Someone says to you, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm ambitious. I love work. And then you go, all right, well, what are you building right now? And they're like, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. Right? It's like you can very quickly, when you talk about values, figure out whether someone is compatible for you and whether they. Whether you're attracted to them and excited about them. And so to me, I'm more interested in making people clear about their vision and values. And that will make dating easier because that narrows the pool. That makes the choice easier, rather than if you're just basing it on looks or if you're just basing on a clever little caption or a funny thing they said about themselves. I mean, now you can just get chat GPT to write the funniest thing. And everyone's a comedian now. You know, it's like, it's not hard to fake it. And so I think we have to look deeper to find a relationship that's going to last longer. We have to look beyond looks to find a relationship that will last. When the looks fade, we gotta look so much more at someone's heart than just how interesting they look on a page. And that only happens when you talk about vision and values.

[Co-Host]

My favorite Jay Shetty picture, you know, like this. I like all the red carpet pictures. I like all the different things that, you know, the events you show up at, you know, presiding over nuptials. All those pictures are cool, but the coolest picture is your high school picture, right? And I think it's because of the story you shared on Instagram about it, though. All the things people told you you couldn't do, all the things people said you couldn't be. And it seems now that you are living in your purpose. And that purpose is a tree that's deeply rooted with a lot of branches. For people watching this show, Jay, how will they truly know that what they're doing, what they're pouring into, is them living in their purpose?

[Host]

The first step of finding your purpose is collecting. Wherever you are right now, even if you hate your job, collect every skill, every person, every networking relationship. Collect, collect, collect. Literally see yourself as a collector of, like, gold coins. Even if you hate your job, you hate your career, collect everything you possibly can from this experience and then move to the next thing and collect everything from there. And one day, after you've done enough collecting, you're going to Start connecting the dots. So my first ever job was I used to deliver newspapers in my area. All my friends who also deliver newspapers, they used to throw them on the train tracks. They never delivered them. So the guy who owned the newspaper company gave me more streets. So what did I learn? I learned when you do a good job, you get rewarded. My next job was I worked at Morrisons. Morrisons is Walmart, like a grocery store. I used to stack shelves, I used to bring in pallets. I worked back of house. It was a hard job. I learned that not always just working hard leads to great rewards. Right. The third job I had, I worked in retail. The fourth job I had, like, I mean, in one sense after that, my fourth job was being a monk. I learned all the wisdom. I learned all the wisdom that I learned. The fifth job I had, I worked in the corporate world. I worked as a consultant. I learned negotiation. I learned sales. I learned connection. I learned understanding what people wanted and needed in different industries. Today I'm living my purpose because I just connected all of that. Everything I'm living today is as much management as it is monk, as it is Morrisons, as it is paper delivery, it's all of those things. And people think, no, no, no, there's one job that's going to be my purpose. Everything you do today, everything all of you do today is this beautiful harmony and synergy of all the experiences you've had, that's what purpose is. And so purpose is not about finding the perfect job or the perfect title or the perfect thing. It's about just collecting experiences, collecting people, and then connecting it one day.

[Advertiser]

Just listening to you talk and knowing your success and watching your videos. Were you born different to be able to do what you're doing or with them? Did those experience make Jay Shetty?

[Host]

When you actually study the greatest athletes of all time, even if they were born with it, they're still working harder than everyone.

[Advertiser]

But Randy Moss was six' four, had a 40 inch vertical.

[Host]

Sure. So physical.

[Advertiser]

Physical, you know, like the athlete side of it.

[Host]

But you probably know a lot of guys that are six' four and can't do that. So, you know, I know a lot of people that are tall and built, but I know a lot of people that are attractive, that are not actors on screen. I know a lot of people who can sing, who aren't musicians. Like, I know a lot of rappers that made it that have terrible verses, like, you know, but they stuck it out. Yeah, right. Like, if you think about the amount of rappers that have terrible Verses but have hit songs. But when you hear their bars, you're like, how did you make it? But they stuck around.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Host]

So consistency. Like, what's that famous quote? Like, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Like that. It's the oldest quote in the book, but it's so true. So for me, I would say that I was. So much of it was nurture. So much of it was nurture. My parents were really scared I was going to be a shy kid, so they forced me to go to public speaking drama school when I was 11 years old. I hated it, but I went for seven years, and when I walked out of there, I didn't know what to talk about, but I knew I had skills, but I didn't have something to talk about. But then when I became a monk, I had something to talk about. So I found the passion with the skills, because skills aren't good enough. What are you going to do with it? And so I really believe in people nurturing their abilities and people investing in their abilities and people realizing that it's possible for them. Is it possible for me to be a basketball player, a football player? No. Right. Physically, I'm not even in the 50th percentile. Like, I'm 90%. Like. Right. Like, I'm like. I don't know how. I can't. Right. There are certain things I just can't do. So I've got to be honest about that. But that's mainly sports, which requires a physicality to it, or if you're a singer. But there's some singers who can't sing that well, too. So, you know, it's like, there's a lot of careers where sports is probably the one that you just can't mess around with. Right. But then you get people like Allen Iverson, like, you know, you get a few players who don't really fit the bill. And that's exception. They're not the rule. They're the exception where they don't have the physicality, but they're just so. I agree. I think sports is one of those things you can't break into if you don't have something you're born with, but 99% of other things, there's not many things that feel the same way as sports.

[Co-Host]

Jay, throughout the collection process of you discovering your purpose, what was your biggest pivot? That's that. That one moment, and we always ask all of our guests, this is the one moment you can look back on and say, without this happening to me, or for me, I wouldn't be who I am today.

[Host]

So the reason why I love the name of the podcast is because my life is full of pivots. There's not one. Everything's a pivot. Yeah. So instead of getting a corporate job, which I was destined to get, I decided to become a monk. That was a pivot. Then when I was meant to be a monk, I thought I was going to be a monk for the rest of my life. But I left because it didn't feel right anymore. That was a pivot. Went back to the corporate world. I was just about getting steady in my job. I was going to get married to my wife. And I went, this isn't my purpose. I'm going to leave. That was a pivot. Started making videos. When I started making videos, I made these four minute videos. They went viral. I wanted to launch a podcast. And every podcast company said, don't do a podcast. People want to listen to you for four minutes. No one wants to listen to you for an hour. So I did it. That was a pivot. Then I had a hit podcast. I wanted to write a book. 14 out of 17 publishers said, don't call it Think like a Monk. No one wants to Think like a monk. I wrote the book anyway. That was a pivot. Then I wanted. So it's like my life has just been full of pivots. I actually think all I care about is pivots. I don't actually want to be ever not pivoting, because that's what we all have to do. And I think the longer you take to pivot, the harder it gets. There's a beautiful quote I read the other day that I love, and it says, the longer you stay on the wrong train, the more expensive it is to get back home.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

And so actually, the more you pivot, because I started pivoting when I became a monk at 21, 22 years old. Because I pivoted that early. I've got so comfortable pivoting. So I would encourage everyone to not be scared of the pivot, because the pivot becomes the platform that creates the next moment of your purpose. Whereas if you stay where you are, that's what kind of crushes everything. And you get more scared to move the more years go by. And so I. I've just. I just keep pivoting. Even now. Like, you know, we're. We're trying to do. I mean, we've been talking about this. We're doing TV and film, we're doing production, we're doing all this stuff. And in one sense, someone said, well, Jay, what qualification do you have? I'm like, I just got to keep pivoting. Life's full of pivots. And I've learned that when I look back at my life, the best decisions I made were pivots. They weren't staying in the same place. That was never the good decision. So to answer your question, yeah, I've got million pivots, and I hope there's a million more that surprise everyone. And I'm just collecting experiences, you know, today I get to see it with you guys. Like, how dope is this? Like, you know, I get to see with. I get to sit with all of you from this world. I was laughing at my life. I was like, you were talking about. I was in Bad Boys like, a year ago, sitting here with you guys today. Yesterday I was with Carmelo Anthony. Then I was with a mindfulness expert. Then my monk teacher's coming into LA to live with me for two weeks on Sunday. And my life is just made up of me collecting the random, and I want to die having just had these beautiful exchanges, meaningful exchanges with people that I maybe would never have crossed paths with, with. All because I was trying to help people. How beautiful is that? Why would I say no to having the opportunity to have this rich life of experiences? And I think when you get lost in your cocoon and your echo chamber and your little world, which we all do, you miss out on the joy that comes from. You know, I remember when Ryan. Ryan realized that I listened to the game, and that was, like, a big moment for him. And it was like. And it was like. I was like, yeah, like, all we did growing up in London was listen to American rap and hip hop. That's all we did. And you wouldn't know that from the way we dress, the way we look, from where we come from, but when you can find commonalities and similarities, you know, the. The Black Monk, like, who would have known? You know, it's like, hey, it's official now.

[Advertiser]

We never getting away from this.

[Co-Host]

Jay called me the Black Monk, too.

[Advertiser]

Come on, Jay. You can leave. We gotta stay around.

[Host]

But who would have ever thought that a professional athlete, a former American football player who had so much success in his career, would call himself the Black Monk? Like, just. I would never have guessed that in a million years. And that's the beauty of this amazing life that we live, that me and Ryan could sit and have something in common when we're so different, have such different backgrounds and different upbringings. We can both like the game and both like the idea of being monks. Like, that is the. I love that. That's what makes life beautiful.

[Co-Host]

I actually. And not, you know, not a Hindu monastery, but I actually spent a lot of time in a Greek Orthodox Christian monastery with Troy Palamalu. And the life was fascinating because those people seem like the most authentic humans in the world. They were 100% comfortable in who they were. And so I understand when you say you met your monk teacher, you're like, I want that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Like, whatever that thing is, that's what I want. And, you know, you mentioned commonalities. I'm excited. We're working on something now. I'm excited about continuing to move forward in that. I do have one last question. Yeah, I have, like, a million of them, but we'll talk about them off air one day. You know, you mentioned pivoting, that your entire life has been a pivot. And when you decide that you're going to dedicate your life and to the monastic lifestyle, that's a. That's a forever change. And you had to move out of that to move into something else that continued to move you towards your purpose. How do people decipher whether moving on or quitting or changing careers or letting a relationship go is a pivot instead of a failure?

[Host]

What's interesting about that question is that it's actually all in your head, because what you label it as is what it becomes. So when I left the monastery, I thought it was a failure. And guess what? That's what it was then. It was a failure. Now when I look back, I see it as a pivot. And often when you're making the decision, it feels like a failure in the moment. More often than not, it will feel like a failure in the moment, but when you look back, you'll see it as a pivot. Because what you realize is that if you keep seeing it as a failure, you'll keep failing. And when I left the monastery and felt like a failure, which I did, I realized that at one point that mindset didn't serve me anymore. There was only so much I could feel sorry for myself. There's only so much I could pity myself. There's only so much I could feel like I wish I was still there and I had to own my life and take responsibility and say, what did I love about it? I loved the fact that I got to study wisdom and share it. I love the fact that we woke up early and we meditated. I love the fact that we had a routine that made me feel good. Guess what? I can do that all now. I can still do that. I can still build that into my life. That's why I wrote the book Think like a monk, not live like a monk. Because I'm not living like a monk anymore, but I'm still thinking like one. So to me, it's all about how you label it. And chances are you will always label the end of something as a failure, because, again, society has conditioned you to believe that ending something or leaving something incomplete is a failure. So you will, in the moment, always think it's a failure. But the quicker you realize it's a pivot, the more you move towards your purpose. And so I would just encourage anyone to say, if something's no longer serving you, if something's no longer fulfilling you, if you've tried everything you possibly can and you can't save, fix, or solve this thing, let it be. You will feel like a failure. Expect it, and then pivot. Allow yourself to feel like a failure, and then pivot.

[Co-Host]

Our mantra here is accept the just and move forward. And also realize it's never too late to pivot.

[Host]

Never too late to pivot. I love that.

[Co-Host]

So the tour, you know, that's the reason we were able to catch you here in New York. Just for people who are looking to tap in, people who want to get an opportunity to lay eyes on Jay Shetty and absorb some of that wisdom, but also experience some of the things you've experienced. Where are you going? How do they do that? How do they tap in?

[Host]

Yeah, I'm really excited. For the first time ever, we're doing a podcast tour. So we have 15 cities, 15 surprise guests across North America and Canada. I'll be interviewing people's favorites from the show, some new ones as well. And what I'm really excited about, if I'm honest, is it's going to be walking into a room where when you look left and right, the person next to you listens to the same thing you do. So the amount you have in common with the people around you is huge. There's very few places in the world that we go into anymore where you feel connected to someone before you walk into the room. Now you can walk in, and the person next to you has a favorite episode. You have a favorite episode. The energy is going to be electric, and I'm going to be sharing wisdom and insights that we haven't before. I think there's something special about memories that are made in person in New York. We're going to be at the theater at msg, so that's going to be incredible. In la, we're at the Greek Theater, which is beautiful. Then we're going Chicago, Dallas, Florida, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, Colorado, Philadelphia, you know, so we're doing 15 cities, and you can go to jshetty me tour and you'll find all the dates, all the tickets, and I hope people come out and leave with a connection with other people. That's my goal. I think we're all looking for. I'm hoping people come there and leave with the date. Right. Like, it's like, you see someone you like, they care about the same stuff you do. Yeah. So you know how rare it is to go to a place where people care about the same thing you do. They're listening to the same show. You could leave with a date, you could leave with a proposal.

[Co-Host]

It's like match.com in person, in person. You created it, and now you're bringing everybody together to do it. Now. Jay, this was amazing, man. This is something we've been wanting to do for a while, if I'm being honest, it's something that I didn't think was possible a while ago, but to meet you, man, to get to understand you a little better personally, and then now to sit with you, you truly are everything you seem to be from the outside, man. So best of luck on the tour. Can't wait to work with you further. But this is amazing.

[Host]

Now you, all of you, and I met you in person, like, you know, like, you're like big, scary dudes, you know, but it's like, you guys, you know, just the kindness, the genuineness, the curiosity, the depth of the questioning. I love the skepticism. And that's important, right? You need that. Like, I think it's great when people push back and question and check and, you know, reflect on stuff and, you know, I mean, I was blown away, Ryan, by your hospitality, your kindness. When I came out to the game to meet you, all the zoom calls we've had, I've really been humbled by how grounded and humble you are. Like, it is just. It's so rare in this world to meet someone who's operating at the top of their game but is willing to make everyone else feel like a star. And you do that. Watching you in your element of, like, literally being on tv, jumping off in between me and you, having, like, deep conversations on the sideline, jumping back on and off. Like, watching you do that, you're. You're. I mean, you're magnificent at what you do.

[Co-Host]

Thank you, brother.

[Host]

But I was more impressed by who you were in just connecting. And so I want the world to know that you're even better in person. Congrats on the Emmy nomination. You deserve it.

[Co-Host]

Thank you.

[Host]

You deserve to win it. And on top of all of that, it's just great to be around great men and great people. I think being around great men is something a lot of men need right now, and it's amazing that all of you are setting such an awesome example of what men can aspire to do, especially men who want to be powerful, make an impact, but then have a deep and good heart as well. So thank you for the example you're setting for men.

[Co-Host]

Appreciate you, brother. That was dope.

[Host]

You guys are the best. You guys are awesome. I mean it. I mean every word. Mean every word, man.

[Co-Host]

Sure.

[Host]

You guys are the best.

[Advertiser]

That's crazy, man.

[Host]

You guys. All right?

[Co-Host]

Appreciate you, brother. So what is this, man?

[Host]

Is this.

[Co-Host]

Is this custom?

[Host]

No, no, no. This is a brand that I love out of France La Mer. It's. It's probably one of my favorite brands. They make.

[Co-Host]

That's nice.

[Host]

They make good stuff.

[Advertiser]

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

[Host]

People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to. To your future self is doing something.

[Co-Host]

That gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

[Advertiser]

Ready to make bigger moves with your career? With Indeed, better work finds you, not the other way around. Just update your Indeed profile with your skills, experience, and salary expectations, and you'll automatically be matched with jobs that fit.

[Host]

What you're looking for.

[Advertiser]

In so many of my conversations with executives or entrepreneurs and creatives, I hear the same thing. I've hit a wall. Not because they're failing, but because they've outgrown where they are. And that moment, while uncomfortable, is often the beginning of real change. That's what's so great about an Indeed profile.

[Host]

It helps you articulate your valuable skills.

[Advertiser]

And goals so better work can find you. When that happens, the work can work better for everyone.

Behind every successful business is a vision. Bringing it to life takes more than effort. It takes the right financial foundation and support. That's where Chase for Business comes in. With convenient digital tools, helpful resources, and personalized guidance, we can help your business forge ahead confidently. Learn [e-mail] business chase for business make more of what's yours. The Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Co.

[Jay Shetty]

This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely, and invest. With your guardrails in place with Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free at greenlight.com iheart.

[Host]

This is an iheart podcast.