On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Episode: MADONNA: For the First Time Ever
Date: September 29, 2025
Guests: Madonna, Eitan (Madonna’s Kabbalah Teacher)
Episode Overview
Jay Shetty welcomes Madonna for the first time on On Purpose. In a sweeping and profoundly personal conversation, Madonna reveals her private spiritual journey—one she’s rarely shared publicly. For nearly three decades, her deep study of Kabbalah has helped her navigate fame, trauma, motherhood, and personal transformation. The episode delves into her beliefs about the purpose of suffering, the power of forgiveness, balancing ambition with spiritual life, and practical wisdom for anyone seeking a more conscious, fulfilled life. In the latter half, Madonna’s longtime teacher Eitan joins to unpack key spiritual teachings and practical guidance for overcoming inner obstacles.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Madonna Came On the Podcast (02:38 - 04:23)
- Madonna’s Intention
- Historically, Madonna only did interviews to promote her work.
- This time, she’s sharing wisdom that’s "saved her life"—not promoting a product.
- “I want to share something with people that has pretty much saved my life. That sounds dramatic, but it’s true.” (Madonna, 03:53)
2. Madonna’s Spiritual Path: Discovery and Practice (04:51 – 17:47)
- Roots of Her Spiritual Life
- Caught between the "illusions" of the physical world and a deeper quest for meaning.
- Studying Kabbalah since 1996.
- "For me, a spiritual life is having an internal life. ... Those things [material pursuits] don’t make us happy." (Madonna, 05:44)
- Rituals: Weekly study, contemplative prayer, learning from multiple traditions, yoga, real introspection.
- Her turning point was pregnancy: “I suddenly realized I was going to be responsible for another human being. ... I didn’t have a spiritual grounding.” (Madonna, 14:46)
- Influences
- Early exposure to Buddhist practices (through a roommate), yoga with Eddie Stern.
- Recognition: “You’re practicing yoga if you’re breathing, even if you can’t do the pose.” (Paraphrased, 12:41)
- Began Kabbalah due to curiosity and a friend’s invitation, derived profound courage and purpose from it.
3. What Spirituality Means to Madonna (04:56 – 07:22)
-
Spirituality as a Practice
- It's about awakening, asking "Why am I here? What am I doing?"
- “If you don’t have a spiritual life, you’re never going to stop and ask any questions. ... Everything that happens to us is meant to teach us some kind of a lesson.” (Madonna, 07:07)
-
Dealing with Comparison and Ego
- “Comparison is the killer of joy.” (Madonna, 08:20)
- The antidote: cultivating internal peace and consciousness.
4. Spirituality’s Influence on Madonna’s Art & Success (19:58 – 25:37)
- Integrating Spirituality with Success
- Spirituality and success are not contradictory: “Those are narrow-minded people. ... You need to be spiritual to be successful. Success is having a spiritual life, period.” (Madonna, 20:06)
- Influence on Creative Output
- Ray of Light album is “100% influenced by my study, my spiritual practice.”
- Sees herself as a vessel/channel for the light, not the owner of her talents.
- “I am not the owner of my talent. I am the manager.” (Madonna, 23:26)
- Staying Grounded Amid Fame
- Shares a story about Marcus Aurelius being reminded "you’re just a man."
- Madonna kept her centering through ongoing study, even when it inconvenienced her career: “I wouldn’t do a show on a day because that was my study day.” (Madonna, 30:44)
- Miracles and Channeling
- Belief in “magic” as channeled creativity, facilitated by spiritual practice and restriction—not excess or escapism.
5. Trauma, Survival, and Lessons (26:26 – 44:06)
- Processing Trauma
- Survived gunpoint, assault, and rape as a young woman in NYC.
- Attributes her resilience to a sense of having “guardian angels” and a conviction that “worst things that happen to us are the best things that happen to us.”
- Motherhood as a Catalyst
- Initially associated motherhood with death due to her own mother’s story.
- Pregnancy forced her to confront her lack of spiritual grounding: “I was scared shitless.”
- Spiritual path challenged her to develop compassion—for her children and her own father.
- Compassion and Parental Relationships
- Kabbalah enabled understanding and forgiving her father: “You start to have a lot more compassion, not just for your parents...It brought me to a place where I could have more compassion.” (Madonna, 41:56)
6. Overcoming Victimhood & Acceptance (45:14 – 53:14)
- From Victim to Acceptance
- Candid about experiencing suicidal thoughts: “There were moments...where I wanted to cut my arms off. I wanted—I actually contemplated suicide.” (Madonna, 46:10)
- Learning "radical acceptance" as a spiritual lesson, especially during her son's custody battle and life-threatening illness.
- “Not being able to accept things causes all of us a lot of suffering.” (Madonna, 48:17)
- Karma and Life's Repetitions
- Karma: soul chooses life for challenges and lessons.
- “If I don’t learn that lesson ... it’s going to come up again and again and again until I learn it and accept that it’s a lesson, not a punishment.” (Madonna, 53:02)
7. Manifestation & Channeling (60:04 – 67:16)
- Manifestation Defined
- It’s not merely willpower or owning achievement; manifesting is allowing oneself to be a vessel for something greater.
- "If you think you’re manifesting on your own...there will be an end to whatever you’re manifesting." (Madonna, 61:22)
- She attributes her earliest songwriting to being "visited" by angels, to gifts being given, not personal ownership.
8. Forgiveness & Accountability (75:55 – 84:16)
- Forgiveness as Liberation
- Held deep grudges, especially against her brother.
- Ultimately chose to forgive before he died, which brought profound relief and closure.
- “It’s a prison and it’s poison to not be able to forgive … That was really important.” (Madonna, 80:02)
- Essential to forgive ourselves as much as others.
9. Madonna’s Kabbalah Teacher Eitan: Spiritual Tools (85:56 – Onward)
-
Eitan’s Journey and Observations (87:03-91:32)
- Eitan was drawn to Kabbalah as a youth, found his life’s purpose as student and teacher.
- Praises Madonna’s perseverance and tenacity—her soul’s “nurturing.”
- “When you constantly nurture your soul, your soul will guide you.” (Eitan, 91:16)
-
Roots of Kabbalah (94:50 – 97:20)
- Discusses the Book of Formation and the Zohar.
- Kabbalah answers the "whys" of life, purpose, struggle, and the nature of the soul.
-
Overcoming the Inner Opponent (100:56 – 105:18)
- Inner obstacles, negativity, and “the opponent within” are gifts for growth and fulfillment.
- “The greatest gift the Creator gave us is the opportunity to overcome the opponent within. ... Without overcoming anything, we’ll never have a sense of true fulfillment.” (Eitan, 102:00)
-
Practical 4-Step Tool for Facing Challenges (111:55 – 119:02)
- Pause – Recognize and label the moment of lack or difficulty as an opportunity.
- Embrace – Feel and allow discomfort, without needing to fix it immediately.
- Certainty Beyond Logic – Trust that all is for the best, even if your mind and heart disagree.
- Action – When reactivity subsides, express generosity and service toward others.
-
Why Practice is Ongoing
- Even with success, Madonna still faces comparison, doubt, and lack daily—spiritual discipline is unending vigilance.
10. Parenthood, Control & Surrender (135:37 – 139:57)
- Children as Spiritual Teachers
- Letting go of control and expectations is lifelong.
- “Trying to control all the outcomes in life and not getting the outcome you wanted is what makes you suffer. ... Children are the perfect teacher for that.” (Madonna, 138:56)
- Over-giving can undermine the development of your children’s desire and strength.
- The hardest lessons resurface until truly learned.
11. Soul’s Purpose & Final Reflections (145:36 – 148:03)
- Soul’s Purpose
- Madonna: "My soul’s purpose is to reveal light in the world...I want it all, but I want it for the sake of sharing, not to keep it for myself."
- Eitan: "Never settle for less...This is just the beginning compared to your next level potential."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Spirituality’s Role in Survival:
"I absolutely would not be where I am or who I am if I did not have [a spiritual life]. It’s helped me enormously, as I said, navigate the ups and downs of life."
—Madonna (03:48) -
On the Dangers of Comparison:
"Comparison is the killer of joy."
—Madonna (08:20) -
On Manifestation:
“If you’re manifesting things and you’re not conscious that it’s a gift from the universe, from the light, from the creator … everything becomes finite when you’re not manifesting with the consciousness that you are channeling something, you don’t own it.”
—Madonna (60:39) -
On Forgiveness:
"It’s a prison and it’s poison to not be able to forgive and to live in a state of like holding a grudge or hating someone or wanting them to suffer."
—Madonna (77:10) -
On Consciousness:
"Consciousness is everything. But a lot of people don’t even know what that is."
—Madonna (39:40) -
On Radical Acceptance:
"Radical acceptance is just accepting that what is happening to you is meant to happen to you and that you’re gonna be okay."
—Madonna (49:20) -
On Facing Darkness:
"The greatest amount of light is where there’s darkness and you can reveal the most amount of light."
—Madonna (74:35) -
On Soul and Challenge:
"The greatest gift, the greatest gift the Creator gave us is the opportunity to overcome the opponent within. Because when you overcome, you become co-creator."
—Eitan (101:28)
Important Timestamps (selected highlights)
- 02:38 — Madonna states her true intention for doing this interview.
- 05:21 — 29 years of studying Kabbalah: its profound role.
- 14:46 — Realization during pregnancy; pivot to seeking.
- 23:26 — “I am not the owner of my talent. I am the manager.”
- 46:10 — Madonna opens up about suicidal thoughts and the process of overcoming victimhood.
- 60:39 — Powerful reflections on manifestation, channeling.
- 77:10 — On the poison of resentment and the necessity of forgiveness.
- 91:16 — Eitan on what distinguishes Madonna’s spiritual path.
- 102:00 — Inner obstacle as spiritual gift.
- 111:55 – 119:02 — Eitan’s 4-step process for overcoming challenges.
- 138:56 — Madonna on letting go of control as a parent.
- 145:36 — Madonna and Eitan articulate their soul’s purpose.
Tone, Language & Style
Throughout, Madonna is candid, reflective, and unvarnished—equal parts conversational, philosophical, and practical. Jay’s tone is warm, probing, and reverent, creating space for deep vulnerability. Eitan’s contributions are calm, guiding, and steeped in ancient wisdom, making spiritual ideas tangible.
For Listeners: Practical Takeaways
- Spiritual life is about daily discipline, internal self-study, and accepting challenges as necessary lessons.
- Forgiveness—of others and oneself—is central to spiritual and emotional liberation.
- Manifestation, success, and creativity all rely on openness to a higher source, not individual ownership.
- Overcoming the ego, letting go of control (especially in parenthood), and craving truth over comfort are core life-spiritual practices.
- Support and regular study (not isolation) are essential for staying true to a spiritual path.