On Strategy Showcase: Conversation with Joe Burns of Quality Meats

Host: Fergus O’Carroll
Guest: Joe Burns, Strategy Lead at Quality Meats
Date: October 12, 2025

Overview

In this engaging episode, Fergus O’Carroll sits down with Joe Burns, the strategy lead at Quality Meats, a Chicago-founded agency recognized for its unconventional style and rapid rise in the industry. The discussion centers on strategy in creative agencies, the interplay between strategists and creatives, the evolution of agency culture, and the shifting role of strategy across the US and UK. Joe shares candid insights from his experience, his approach to writing and creativity, and thought-provoking perspectives on how agencies can be more effective and innovative.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Quality Meats: Origins & Ethos

• Trimming the Fat: The agency was started by people, “sick and tired of the big agency world,” aiming for efficiency and cutting unnecessary layers to get to great ideas faster and for less cost ([03:12]-[04:26]).
  • “It’s all people who…wanted to do something a little bit more…trimming the fat, more efficient, get to good ideas quicker, less layers, that kind of thing.” — Joe ([03:12])
  • The unique name fits the brand philosophy: “You trim away the fat and you get the best quality meat.” — Fergus ([04:26])

2. Writing as a Strategic Practice

• Joe is known for his prolific and stylish writing on LinkedIn, often in structured PDF carousels.
  • Writing helps solve two key frustrations: the slow pace of agency work and lack of direct agency over outputs ([05:18]):
    • “The journey from getting to a brief set of objectives...to actually making something…is incredibly slow...The writing and production of these little PDF documents...allows me to do things quickly and to do things where I have complete autonomy...” — Joe ([05:18])
  • He emphasizes embracing uncertainty: “You can generate far more learnings and personal development if you do things that are highly uncertain...” ([05:18])
• Style vs. Substance:
  • Joe prefers “style over substance,” seeing style as the differentiator in a sea of content: “Style’s better than substance. Substance is easy in my opinion. Like, it’s easy to have substance. Having style is magic. That’s hard.” ([09:25])
  • Draws inspiration from British music icons: “My dad was a huge fan of Roxy Music...the style was the substance.” ([10:05])

3. The Strategist–Creative Relationship

• Joe dislikes working with creatives who want a narrowly defined proposition. Prefers an iterative, collaborative “riffing” akin to jamming in a band ([11:30]):
  • “The creatives I like to work with are the ones who can riff, you know, and just like throw ideas back and forth...” ([11:30])
• The importance of reframing:
  • Emphasizes the strategist’s role in defining the problem, then collaborating to solve it ([13:33]).
  • Example: For Benecol, redefined the product’s problem from efficacy to feeling “old,” unlocking a new creative direction ([14:52]).
• The danger of checklists:
  • Warns against letting process and checklists override creative thinking: “I don’t think anything good’s ever happened from having a checklist of 10 bullet points.” ([16:24])

Memorable Quote

"If the clients knew what they wanted, we wouldn't have a job." — Joe ([16:37])

4. Navigating Process, Uncertainty, and Consensus

• Optimal Stopping Problem (a.k.a. Secretary Problem): Joe suggests agencies should spend roughly a third of their time exploring openly before committing to a creative direction ([17:58]):
  • “Spend a third of your time just completely openly exploring. Do not try and pick a winner...The next thing you get to that beats that benchmark is statistically speaking, likely to be the best idea you'll have...” ([17:58])
• The pitfalls of consensus decision-making: Strategists are usually outnumbered by creatives, so solving disputes is best done one-on-one, not in the group ([23:00]):
  • “If you are in a group situation inside an advertising agency, you're always going to be outnumbered. There's never more strategists than there are creatives...” ([23:20])
• The strategist as the “conscience” of the agency, often standing apart from other department incentives ([26:25]).

5. Chemistry Between Strategist and Creative

• Discusses the rare “magic” when a strategist finds their creative soul mate, which is essential for producing great work ([27:19]):
  • “When you meet your sort of soul mate on the creative side of the equation and you just connect... The rest are fighting to find that. It's like finding your life partner.” — Fergus ([27:19])

6. Agency Structure, Culture, and US vs. UK Differences

• US agencies seen as more hierarchical and militaristic—focused on execution; UK agencies have planners ingrained in leadership, borrowing from “codes of nobility,” leading to a more open and collaborative environment for strategists ([33:04]-[36:10]).
  • “There’s no assumption of meritocracy in the UK. We’re deeply suspicious of authority who think they know what’s best.” — Joe ([33:47])
  • Fergus references how in the UK, planners’ names are often “on the board,” unlike the US ([35:02])
  • “The US is much more a militaristic culture...if the UK is based on the codes of nobility, the US is much more based on the codes of the military.” — Joe ([36:10])

7. The Spectrum of Strategy Roles in Agencies

• Joe identifies three models of strategy:
  1. Alignment Machine: Getting stakeholders on the same page (should be part of account management).
  2. Insight Vendor: Bringing expertise and insights, often in creative agencies but could arguably live under creative leadership.
  3. Brand Planning/Big Strategy: Designing the broader comms ecosystem, which could sit outside creative agencies, “further upstream” in client organizations ([39:00]-[44:29]).

8. What Defines a Great Agency

• Great agencies “value thinking” over just deliverables, focusing on creativity across all aspects—ideas, processes, and relationships ([44:39]–[47:22]):
  • “You can tell when an agency's about to...go to the dogs when all anyone cares about is deliverables...” — Joe ([44:48])
• The importance of agency brand and culture:
  • Quality Meats seeks to be one of those rare shops with a clear brand ethos—clients (and staff) know what they’re getting ([47:22]):
    • “You know when you hear its name, what you’re going to get when you walk in the door... It actually has a brand. It’s not just a fricking agency.” — Fergus ([47:22])
• Joe’s binary view of work quality:
  • “Average is the same as...shit. They’re the same. There’s best and then there’s not best.” ([47:54])

9. Why Agencies Don’t Innovate Enough

• Joe observes creative agencies are the industry’s slowest to evolve their operating models, still dependent on outdated team structures despite media and consumption shifts ([49:09]-[51:06]):
  • “It surprises me that we aren’t seeing...more innovation in terms of how agencies operate...” ([51:06])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Style’s better than substance. Substance is easy in my opinion. Like, it’s easy to have substance. Having style is magic. That’s hard.” — Joe ([09:25])
• “If the clients knew what they wanted, we wouldn’t have a job.” — Joe ([16:37])
• “Average is the same as...shit. They’re the same. There’s best and then there’s not best.” — Joe ([47:54])
• “When you meet your soul mate on the creative side of the equation and you just connect…it’s like finding your life partner.” — Fergus ([27:19])

Additional Resources & Where to Find Joe

• Connect with Joe Burns on LinkedIn for his writing, insights, and downloadable reports ([51:33]).
• No Substack, LinkedIn is “where you find me. I can just throw anything.” — Joe ([51:36])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:12] – Agency origins, “trimming the fat” philosophy
• [05:18] – Why Joe writes and publishes frequent PDFs
• [09:25] – Style vs. substance in strategic writing
• [13:33] – The strategist’s role in reframing the problem
• [14:52] – Benecol case study: insight into effective reframing
• [17:58] – The “Optimal Stopping Problem” applied to creative work
• [23:00] – Handling disagreement and consensus in agencies
• [27:19] – Chemistry between strategist and creative leads to best work
• [33:04] – US vs. UK strategic culture explained
• [39:00] – Deconstructing the three main agency strategy functions
• [44:39] – What defines a truly great agency (and what doesn’t)
• [47:54] – “Average is...the same as shit.” Binary view of agency outputs
• [51:33] – Where to find Joe’s writing and connect online

Rich with candor, wit, and practical wisdom, Joe Burns gives both aspiring and veteran strategists a rare peek into the mechanics—the creative, political, and psychological—of building great work and great agencies.