B (3:55)

I mean Meat snacks in the US 57% category penetration. So as you said, it is a decent sized category with some really established players. Slim Jims and Jack Links, they're Both Slim Jim's 86% awareness. Jack Links, 77% awareness. They're super high. And then all the other newcomers challenges. No one's above 30% awareness. So there's this big gap between the established players and the newcomers and that's where Arch is. Early signs but well placed to start closing that gap.

A (4:26)

Yeah. So Stick to Real is their sort of brand platform. And they trade based upon this idea of being real in a world that's increasingly artificial. That seems like a really interesting platform to play off of, particularly when you look at a category which is dominated by brands that don't even claim to be healthy. So there seems to be a distinctive message, although there's other people out there playing in that same space. A lot of sort of store brands that are playing in it, but they seem to have found a place particularly in a society that is so focused on proteins.

B (5:04)

Well, if we look at the established players like a Slim Jims, you can see their whole positioning is around convenience and flavor, but also those unhealthy cues. And I think they're not trying to be healthy necessarily, which opens the gate for someone like Archer to come through and they're occupying the opposite space. And if we have a look at the perceptions coming through already, even though it's a young brand, healthy Organic, premium, natural, fresh, clean in quality. And so they've also got these distinctive associations coming through that also kind of signal this move to that better for you positioning. I mean we've seen it happen in Big Soda with the likes of Olipop and Poppy. It's just another category that more expecting better for you. But they're also taking on some big established players.

A (5:49)

Thanks, Matthew. So here's my conversation with Andrew Thompson. He's VP marketing for Archer Meat Snacks in Los Angeles. Enjoy. Hey, so great to have you here, Andrew. It's exciting to have this conversation. It's not a category that's typically associated with a lot of interesting things. So I'm excited to get your perspective on what you guys have done to make it interesting and I think fundamentally brings some pretty strong marketing principles to the game, right?

C (6:18)

Absolutely. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. This category, meat snacks, most people just know it as beef jerky, has been fairly stagnant for quite a while and it really hasn't been until the last three, four years that it's started to change very dramatically. So a lot of great stuff to talk about.

A (6:35)

Yeah, it's interesting because I would never have sort of, I would never have thought of meat snacks. Well, before we even get into it, what is a meat snack?

C (6:48)

That's definitely something that's an industry term and not a consumer facing term which we often have to remind ourselves.

A (6:54)

I'm going to go have a meat snack.

C (6:56)

I'll be back in. Nobody, nobody says that. Ironically enough, I actually, I used to know or I used to work with Adam Razek who is our president and CFO here. I worked with them on the Kavita business when I was at PepsiCo and we became good friends having worked together. We were once on a wine tasting trip, had a little bit of wine and we were at the store like, let's get some meat snacks. Now that we were talking about salami and charcuterie and those sorts of things. It's ironic that we are now actually in the meat snacks category. The, the definition as we, as we define it is beef jerky, meat sticks and then smoked sausages and then you'll see some other thing like beef strips, Jack links has some tender nugget bites as they call them. So anything that is ready to eat meat that you find in that meat snack aisle that doesn't have to be refrigerated, that's what we call neat snack.

A (7:51)

And is there a regionality to this in terms of its appeal or is there an occasion where this tends to be consumed historically.

C (7:59)

Historically I think so the convenience channel. So C store small format that has traditionally been the lion's share of all the dollar sales. I believe when I came on the business convenience represented over 50% of all dollar sales. And that's because a lot of people will get beef jerky when they're on a road trip while they're out and about running errands when there's, you know, stopping by a small convenience store on the way to go camping just because it's a, it's an easy snack and it doesn't spoil when it's in the bag. But we're now starting to see that shift quite a bit given the fact there's so many new consumers coming into the category. That usage occasion of I'm going to have it on a road trip or while I'm on the go, need something to chew on, something to do. That has changed dramatically. The new consumer segment has discovered. Wait a minute. I've always known about beef jerky and beef sticks but I've always seen it as something that wasn't good for me. Full of preservatives or greasy. Now that there's a couple of options out there, that's grass fed beef, no artificial preservatives, ingredients added nitrates, none of that other junk you don't want in your body, zero sugar. Now the more better for you health minded consumer has discovered, wait a minute. This is a great convenient on the go protein snack. This can replace something like a protein bar. This can replace something like some of those other better for you salty snacks that are out there. So that's really been the driver of a lot of the growth in the category lately is people rediscovering it now that these new healthier options are available.

A (9:30)

Yeah, because I've heard that same thing. I've heard people comment that they're people who are on sort of high protein diets that it's suddenly entered the lexicon of options that they could where historically they would never think of it as even being remotely healthy. Right.

C (9:46)

Absolutely. Full of sodium something.

A (9:51)

I mean you were judged for walking around with a jerky stick in your hand at one point. I mean it was like this is not a person who cares a about their health.

C (9:59)

Yeah. And you know what's funny about that is a couple of legacy brands like a Jack Links and Slim Jim, they've been around forever and they've, you know, they've done a really good job investing in their brand. To this day people still recall Step into a Slim Jim and the. The wrestling tie in that they had, which is great. So I give them a lot of credit because there's not a lot of other brands that have invested in building, branding and or invested in marketing in this category. So they've done a good job establishing, hey, there's awareness of who these brands, what those categories are. But to some extent, I think there was a little bit of resting on their laurels. They were the two leading brands. There wasn't a lot of innovation coming in the category. It looks something like a Slim Jim still satisfied a very specific need state. If you think about teenagers or college students or gamers, they just want something delicious to snack on. They know they can find it everywhere. They can go down to the convenience store and grab it. So that's traditionally where it's been. And a lot of those consumers haven't cared about what was in it because it was all about convenience, access and taste.

A (11:06)

So back to the question of regionality. Why do I get the impression that this was a southern thing? Am I wrong in saying that the meat snacks and this type of jerky was really big in the south and maybe it's migrated around the country over time.

C (11:22)

I would say from a regionality perspective rather than where is it strongest? Because I would say, sure, in the south you're absolutely spot on, but I would say in the west, it's pretty popular as well. The northeast is probably the area where you would see a little bit of a dip in the consumption index that has changed significantly over the last few years, just given the changing dynamics in the category. But yeah, regionally it was really, you know, it's tough to understand why or say why, but I would say like south and west were probably the key ones there.

A (11:56)

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me a little about a little bit about you guys. So Archer's a little bit of the background. How did it get to where it is and then how big is it in the category?

C (12:10)

Yeah, so our CEO and founder, Eugene Kang, he is the child of immigrant parents who came over from Korea and they opened a bunch of gas stations and convenience stores up in the high desert here in Southern California. So he one, grew up in a very entrepreneurial environment, helped his parents out at the cash register and stockings items in the stores. But two, he had a front row seat to really the growth and evolution of the meat snack category. He'll often recount that he saw the Jack Links salesperson come in, offer a rack permanent display full of that red packaging. And that was a big Reason why Jack Links became as ubiquitous as they are. So being very familiar with jerky. There was one time in 2010, he and his aunt Susan were on a road trip to the Grand Canyon and they stopped by a roadside beef jerky stand, as they tended to do, and they tried this beef jerky and it was grass fed beef and they were blown away by it. It is unlike anything they had ever tried before. Great flavor, great ingredient label. And so they asked the owner of the stand, they said, where did you get this from? And they referred them to this man, Charlie Maracci, who was here in San Bernardino, California, and he owned a company called Country Archer. Now, that brand never really saw the light of day. He was white labeling jerky for whoever wanted it, generally small convenience stores, gas stations, roadside stands like where Eugene and Susan found it. And he had no succession plan, so he was up there in years and they offered to buy the business from him. Now, at the time, Eugene was 22 years old. He had no knowledge of manufacturing, sales, marketing operations, supply chain, anything you would need to run a business. But he dove in and it's crazy because a lot of small businesses that found.

A (14:08)

Why would he. Let me ask you this because it's pretty incredible. Why would he think or why would he choose to go after a meat snack? As an entrepreneur, was he just a huge lover of meat snacks? Was his family a big lover? I mean, what drew him to that? And it's not exactly a high price item. Maybe it's high margin, but it wouldn't be the thing you think, okay, let's go make a meat snack. Unless you're deeply entrenched in it.

C (14:34)

Yeah. I think because he was so familiar with the category, he saw a massive white space opportunity. He realized that there wasn't a lot of options out there that had grass fed beef number one, two. He knew that most of the options out there were full of a lot of other junk, artificial preservatives, nitrates and nitrites that you didn't necessarily want to put into your body. So for him, he saw it as a massive opportunity. Wait a minute.

A (15:01)

I mean, for example, in the Korean community in Southern California, are meat snacks a big.

C (15:08)

So jerky is. Beef jerky is for sure.

A (15:11)

Beef jerky is.

C (15:12)

Eugene has mentioned a few times that it's actually a pretty popular product back in South Korea.

A (15:17)

Okay, yeah, so that's the connection. There's probably a use occasion. He's probably being very familiar with it as he grows up.

C (15:23)

Yes.

A (15:24)

I mean, there's probably a thousand other Products in a convenience store that he could have gone after. But this was something he had a deep understanding and appreciation for.

C (15:32)

That's absolutely right. And for him that white space opportunity was just so obvious, he couldn't pass up on it.

A (15:40)

So he, he goes to this road, this roadside stand, meets this guy ultimately who's manufacturing it in, in California. They come to a deal, they buy it. When do you come into the picture?

C (15:52)

Many years later. So they, they founded the business or they purchased the business back in 2011. And a lot of starts and stops as happens with a small company. They really got their first major break. Fears after the purchase.

A (16:09)

Still white labeling it or were they branded?

C (16:11)

He wanted to build the brand for him. He said, let's build this brand. It's country Archer, let's scale it, let's get it out there. And he pitched it to Sprouts, he pitched it to Whole Foods. And really what gave the brand its big break was he had reached out to the owners of the Sriracha brand here in Southern California and they did a co branded collaboration of a Sriracha flavor. And that was, that was so huge for the brand because up until then Eugene was having a hard time getting traction. A lot of the retailers said, I get it, grass fed beef, I understand it, but really how is it different? What are consumers going to be attracted too? They didn't really think that there was a there there, but yeah, but because Sriracha was such a hot brand, that collaboration got them that shelf set access.

A (17:03)

And so the, that's a big deal for a meat snack to get into Whole Foods. I got to assume then that they're up against a different competitive set on shelf in a Whole Foods.

C (17:15)

Yes. The great part about Whole Foods and Sprouts as well is that that consumer is much more mindful of their nutrition. And so the grass fed aspect of the beef jerky was very, very appealing to them. So the product turned out to be fairly successful. You know, the jerky from, from nearly the get go and it, you know, I wouldn't say necessarily had a rocket ship trajectory in terms of scale initially, but if you look at where we sit in the category today from a jerky perspective, we're almost the only player in Whole Foods outside of their private label. Now you have a lot of meat sticks, a lot of other brands playing there as well. And then in sprouts we have a massive position in terms of dollar share that we continue to keep growing. So natural was the right place for us to start because of that better for you ethos that we had, the challenge then after that, of course, is scaling outside of natural and then scaling beyond just pure beef jerky.

A (18:15)

So is Sprouts a natural food store or no?

C (18:17)

Yeah, yeah.

A (18:18)

Okay, so you come in in which year and what's the challenge that you're given to solve?

C (18:24)

Yeah, so I arrived in 2022 and at the time the, you know, the club business had been doing very well with, with the mini sticks, Sam's Club, Costco. Costco really largely focused on Costco at the time.

A (18:38)

Okay.

C (18:39)

And so the business was, was chugging along, it was growing, it was, you know, it was doing well. When I came on board, the, the first ask of me was, hey, we don't have a big marketing budget here. Margins on a commodity style product like beef aren't exactly as robust as you'd find on other brands. Which means we're not spitting off a lot to, to fund a marketing budget, which was fine. I got my start in General Mills, which was much more of a traditional general management, brand management role where you own the P and L, you work on all aspects of the business, not just marketing communications. And so the task that was set to me was, hey, one, we got to clean up our selling materials. There's still a lot of distribution. We got to go get in large format. So places like grocery channels, Kroger, Albertsons, Publix, think about mass channels like Walmart and Target. There's a smattering of distribution in those places. But we really needed to accelerate it, especially on the mini stick business. And so I took a look at selling materials, said, okay, a lot of data here, but there's not really a story. There's not much of a narrative. And by the way, they weren't really telling the founding story, which I thought was a significant gap. So I helped clean up the selling decks and that go to market strategy and, and how they positioned it to buyers. But one of the things that I realized was we were flying blind in terms of a lot of different data. We didn't know our household penetration, we didn't know our repeat rate. We didn't know our brand awareness. And so I brought on a handful of different data platforms to help us figure out, well, where do we stand today? It's tough to know where to go if you don't know where you, where you stand in the now. And so I got a lot of good information. But another thing I then realized was we didn't have a strong positioning statement. The brand had really grown off of the back of being grass fed beef jerky. And that's a great reason to believe it's a great attribute. But it's not by any stretch of the imagination a strong positioning statement that you can take to retail and say this is our right to exist, this is why we were there.

A (20:42)

Other grass fed beef sticks out by.

C (20:44)

That point, 2022 there were Chomps being the main one. Chomps's growth hadn't really accelerated in 2022. They were starting to gain distribution and they were certainly seeing that as an emerging threat. But they were probably the lead competitor. There was a handful of other grass fed sticks and jerky brands out there, none of which seemed to have the level of scale or potential that we did.

A (21:12)

We'll be right back. Want always on brand metrics that deliver value to stakeholders Tracksuit is a beautiful, affordable and always on brand tracking tool that helps consumer marketers and agencies answer the question. Is what we're doing working? A not so secret fact is that companies pay $100,000 or more for brand tracking, which is out of the question for many modern brands whose budgets are under pressure. Tracksuit provides enterprise level brand tracking without the big price tag. Their in house research experts do the heavy lifting using best in class practices to craft and launch your survey and get you results fast. Check it out@gotracksuit.com that's gotracksuit.com. now back to the show. How do you get to the proposition? What did you have to do in order to get to that brand proposition and platform?

C (22:11)

Yeah, we worked with an agency partner, their name is BSA Partners. They conducted a consumer segmentation study for us. Now what I wanted to make sure when we did that study that we didn't do is ask the same old questions you would ask in a traditional aanu. I knew why people were in the category. It was a protein snack. I need to ask them exactly why they consumed it. I wanted to understand broader snacking meat states and then how do meat snacks fit within that? To your earlier question around like, well, what's a meat snack? What's a meat snack category? We are in such an echo chamber. We talk about that all the time. Consumers don't think about it that way. They think about snacking needs. Yeah. So we tried to understand those needs and then how meat snacks quote unquote scratch any particular itch. And from that we developed four different consumer segments and identified our lead segment.

A (23:07)

So were you in doing that were you trying to understand how to expand the category or steel share?

C (23:13)

I would say at the time, we felt that we were expanding the category and we wanted to understand who were those consumers that were new to the category. So we really defined them as the emerging consumer base. We said, look, there's a conventional consumer base that's been here. They're going to continue to be here. That's great. We're not necessarily sold that we're going to be able to source a ton of volume from those folks because they may or may not care about the attributes. But we had an inkling that there was this emerging consumer base and the segmentation study confirmed it. And then when we started to layer on panel data from Numerator, we realized we were sourcing a ton of new consumers from outside of the category and from other categories such as protein bars, where people had traditionally used protein bars as a better for you on the go protein option. But now they were saying, well, wait a minute, it's ultra processed. There's artificial sweeteners in a lot of them. I don't really know what's in it. Let me move to something that's a much cleaner label. And there's that real ingredient cleaner label piece that really helped define our brand positioning statement.

A (24:17)

And would you say that you guys were premium priced or how would you place yourself on that?

C (24:21)

Yes, we've always been a premium price brand.

A (24:23)

Always been. So you needed to sort of leverage those new consumers coming in with a product story that justified a premium.

C (24:30)

That's absolutely right.

A (24:32)

And so you go through the segmentation, what comes out the other end of that that's useful and applied to messaging and brand identity.

C (24:41)

Yeah. So the positioning statement was great because again, it was all focused around real ingredients and what we called real people living real lives. And the way we thought about that was we colloquially referred to our consumer targets, the Tesla driving model. The idea is that, look, it would be great if you could serve your kids and your family a farm to table meal all the time. These consumers prioritize buying food made of real ingredients for them. It's not healthy if it's not made out of real ingredients. But the reality is life doesn't allow you to cook farm to table meal all the time. So when you can't do that, we're going to help bring those real ingredients to you in convenient formats that satisfy multiple need states.

A (25:27)

And for you, this Tesla mom that you described, do you see her as buying it for herself or for her family?

C (25:34)

For both.

A (25:35)

For both.

C (25:36)

Because this person cares deeply about what they put into their bodies, but they also want to make sure, their kids are eating well. And for the longest time that's been a big pain point for parents because they want to eat well and they want the kids to eat well, but kids want to eat goldfish or pretzels or chicken nuggets. The beauty of a grass fed meat stick is the kids actually love it.

A (26:00)

And then kids. And I think especially one of the things I was thinking about in preparing for this conversation, I was thinking about the GLP1s.

C (26:07)

Yes.

A (26:07)

And for GLP1s, the doctor who's supervising you. If you're on these GLPs, they will always say you need to be getting consistent protein. And it gets incredibly boring. Whether you're on GLP1s, which is millions and millions of Americans, or whether you're on not a diet, but you're on a nutritious plan that includes good proteins, it can get boring very quickly. So you're looking for variety. A yogurt can only be, you know, it can only go so far. Totally. So it's not that you're going to go all in on these sort of meat snacks, but to be able to mix it into your regime. Right. Is that part of the goal here that you see that opportunity?

C (26:52)

Absolutely, absolutely.

A (26:53)

Whether it's for kids or it's for.

C (26:55)

Self, we just want, we want folks to know that this option is now available. We look at it as, hey, this emerging consumer has discovered or rediscovered this category. There are so many more people who probably still look at the jerky category as old, tired and not for them. And so that's the opportunity for us is to grow the size of the pie rather than steal share is go after all those better few consumers who maybe haven't had the chance to come over yet.

A (27:22)

So I've got a guess that actually I'm curious about is saying grass fed, is that enough for people to feel okay in adopting it or do they tend to have a lot more questions that you have to explain?

C (27:36)

I wouldn't necessarily say that they have a lot more questions. It's, it's interesting because there's a lot of internal debate on this grass fed being such a differentiating aspect of what we are about here at Archer. We leveled it up to real. Knowing that grass fed beef is real, it's real protein, knowing that not having any artificial or other preservatives in the product that aren't necessary, that's real for a lot of folks. Zero sugar, zero artificial sweeteners is real. There was a lot of debate on like, well, are we being specific Enough like other brands talk about real. And the key for us was other brands do talk about real, but real gets us into the conversation. It basically gets us into the party with all the other brands talking about real. Talking just about grass fed, I think was a little too niche. And yes, a lot of folks are looking for grass fed beef, but it wasn't talking about the full value proposition of the brand. And so by talking about real, it's a term that once people hear it, they may have some additional questions they may ask like, well, what does that mean? But I think the benefit of being a meat stick is in jerky. A lot of people are like, well, yeah, of course it's real. Like it's dried meat. Like, what else is in it? So there's been a lot of people who associated the category of like, I don't really know what's in it. But a lot of people also looked at it and said, wait a minute, if you're telling me this is like real meat and nothing else in it, that it's easy to connect the dots there because now you're telling me it's just dried meat and nothing else. We don't have to explain it that much further.

A (29:14)

Yeah, interesting. So I assume on packaging, because you went through a complete package redesign.

C (29:20)

We did.

A (29:21)

What were the priorities on package when you did that in terms of what messaging you needed to express on the package?

C (29:27)

It was really about talking to that emerging consumer. Our old visual identity, it was premium and it was fine. But one, didn't really have that real and natural feel to it. And then two, I would say the larger problem is it didn't have strong branding on it. So we were the fifth largest meat snack brand in the country as of a couple of years ago, which is massive. It's a 6, $7 billion category. So to be number five is a huge achievement. Our aided awareness was 11th highest in the category. So people were buying the Grass Fed Beef minis and the Grass Fed Beef jerky. They didn't know what brand they were buying.

A (30:08)

Interesting dilemma, right?

C (30:09)

Yeah, it's a good place to be because if they're already buying it and we do a good job with the rebrand and amplify the branding and still hold true to what people were looking for in purchasing beforehand. Then we saw Sky's the Limit. And so that's what we attempted to do with the rebrand. We went from Country Archer Provisions to just Archer simplified it. That actually was a really easy decision to make. All the data we had showed that consumers Were already just calling us Archer. So we were really just meeting them.

A (30:41)

But your awareness level was. Did you say it was 11%?

C (30:44)

11%. We were. No, sorry. We were the 11th highest in the category. But ironically, yes, the aided awareness was also 11%. The unaided awareness was, I would want to say 9, 10 of 1%. So when you just ask people to name a meat, snack or jerky brand under 1% of folks were mentioning us.

A (31:04)

So given that dilemma. Not dilemma, but given that situation, you had a sort of a clean sheet of paper, you could have abandoned it and not just simplify to Archer. Was there some sort of perceived equity in that either internally or externally or amongst distribution or. Yeah, because you could have gone anywhere, really. Yeah.

C (31:26)

We certainly felt like, although the business.

A (31:28)

Was pretty damn big by this point.

C (31:29)

So that was the balance. Right. So we felt like we had a fairly blank slate to work with, which was wonderful. We did think the Archer name was strong enough and carried enough equity that if we amplified it, we'd still be able to carry through the folks who were already buying the brand and help them locate it when they were in the store.

A (31:50)

So the bull icon, was that always on pack or was that something you guys introduced?

C (31:55)

Introduced as part of the rebound.

A (31:57)

Interesting. So let's talk about some of the advertising elements and the communications elements. Personality, I think, is a big part of this. Tell us about the brand personality and why you introduced a mascot character.

C (32:15)

You can certainly have strong brand personality and have interesting marketing communications without a mascot. But we felt that it was a great way for us to punch above our weight class again. Operating in a world where our marketing budgets were nowhere near a Jack Links or Slim Jim or even a Chomps. We knew we had to make things more disruptive to grab that additional attention. And by the way, we also saw it as a way to build the moat around the brand so down the road people couldn't really copy or replicate us in a way that often happens with big brands. So we tried to be as future and forward looking as possible. And that's a lot of what drove the ad campaign that you see today and why there's a big blue bull.

A (32:55)

So you produced a spot or a film. Tell us about what you want that to achieve and. And how it plays into the stick to reel message.

C (33:05)

Yeah. So we worked with an agency named Demonstrate DDW up out of the Bay Area. And our brief to them was, all right, we have this great new brand positioning statement and this new visual identity. We finally have some dollars to play around with real Marketing. We want to do some video in the TV commercial, come up with a campaign that really embraces the ethos of the new brand strategy. And so the framework that they developed was consumers often find themselves in quote, unquote, unreal or absurd situations. And it's so relatable and relevant to everything today. Think about all the social media trends. You see people doing TikToks on subways and restaurants on airplanes, you know, videos of people doing the most absurd things at the gym, using the equipment in the wrong way, crazy gender reveal parties, some of which like here in LA a couple of years ago, I think one started a wildfire. People are really experiencing either firsthand or through social media, all these really absurd and unreal events. And so the idea of the campaign was to put our consumer as the hero into these absurd events and then Archer serves as a grounding force for them.

A (34:19)

So when did the campaign launch? And are you able to see anything in your brand metrics that suggests that you're beginning to maintain. I'm not beginning to build further in owning real.

C (34:33)

Yeah, so the, the, the new pack design didn't really start to roll out until June and July and that was largely in the club channel of 2025. Of 2025. And you know, in the club channel, the product turned so quickly it was easy for the new stuff to flow through. And then our top selling items have started to flow through in places like Whole Foods, Kroger Sprouts, Target, Walmart on a handful of items over the last, I'd say two, three months. We anticipate full flow through Q1 of 2026. So I bring that up because we wanted to make sure that we started to seed the awareness driving campaign early, but we didn't want to go too full bore on it until all the new Viz ID was fully in market. But we did launch the campaign. On August 28th we launched the commercial on Hulu. Hulu actually had their own programming in the fall about all their reality TV programming. So us plugging into this idea of things that are real unreal was really a big layup for us. And then we did a bunch out of home and some display and paid social. It was big enough to capture media attention, which is great. And then we also have a partnership with the LA Dodgers, which is wonderful for us back to back world champions. And so we were running the spot on Spectrum during some LA Dodgers games as well. So from a consumer standpoint, it's still too early because one, everything's so new and then two, the media weight we invested this year wasn't really sufficient enough for us to get a great, great read on it. So now for 2026, once we start to spend some real money on this, that's when we believe we're going to start to get that consumer frequency up and we're going to start to see some metrics moving in terms of aided awareness. And then we're also tracking things like is a brand that's made of grass fed beef, Is a brand that's made with only real ingredients. All those key value proposition attributes that we really want to make sure we're.

A (36:37)

Moving the needle on it is Andrew Thomas. You can see all of the work on our website. There's out of home. There's a great story around the mascot. We'll put all the work up there so people can see it. Andrew is VP marketing, Archer Meat Snacks in Los Angeles. The brand platform is Stick to real. Thank you, Andrew, for coming on the show. Appreciate your perspective.

C (36:59)

Yeah, it was great to be here.

A (37:01)

And we'll see everyone on the next episode.