Podcast Summary: On Strategy Showcase – How Persil Followed Women into Sports

Host: Fergus O’Carroll
Guests: Tati Lindenberg (VP, Dirt Is Good at Unilever), Rachel Staats (Global Strategy Director, MullenLowe)
Date: November 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Fergus O’Carroll delves into the strategic evolution of Persil’s iconic "Dirt Is Good" platform, with a special focus on its recent pivot into women’s sports and the sponsorship of Arsenal Women. The episode unpacks how Persil’s messaging evolved from encouraging parents to let kids embrace messiness, to addressing deeper cultural issues around performance, sustainability, and inclusivity—culminating in a campaign aimed at normalizing period stains in sports alongside empowering both women and men.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution of "Dirt Is Good"

• Origins & Longevity:
  Launched 21 years ago, “Dirt Is Good” aimed to disrupt a category obsessed with cleanliness by championing the benefits of dirt in children’s growth and play.

  “The core of Dirt is Good is sacred... However, the way that we express the idea of Dirt is Good has been evolving, going through eras throughout these 21 years.” — Tati Lindenberg [06:13]

• Parenting Insight:
  Initial focus was on encouraging less over-protective parenting, reminding adults to let kids be kids.

  “This campaign was a refreshing reminder that we need to let kids be kids.” — Fergus O’Carroll [07:05]

2. Purpose, Sustainability, and Its Challenges

• Transition to Sustainability:
  Around 2020, amid the pandemic and rising environmental consciousness, "Dirt Is Good" was tweaked to "Dirt is for Good," emphasizing sustainability.

  “Internally, we had a purpose and a mission to make all of our products more sustainable…people and society were prepared and wanted to hear that message.” — Tati Lindenberg [08:44]

• Pivot Back to Performance:
  The sustainability focus, while timely, led some consumers to question product efficacy, spurring a renewed emphasis on cleaning performance.

  “Being kinder to the planet...made people start looking at the brand as...potentially not as good performing as they would expect from a top laundry brand.” — Tati Lindenberg [10:44]

3. Changing Context of "Dirt"

• New Types of Dirt:
  As lifestyles shift, Persil now addresses less visible dirt (sweat, pollution, grease) due to urbanization and synthetic fabrics.

  “Thanks to urbanization, people are living different lifestyles...you don’t have people...with grass and mud, and more invisible dirt, as we call it—sweat or pollution and grease and oils.” — Tati Lindenberg [15:09]

4. The Move into Women’s Sports

• Rationale for Sports:
  With sports as a clear context for performance and “good dirt," aligning with the sports world was a natural fit—especially as women’s sports rise in cultural importance.

  “For a lot of reasons, the pivot into sport made a lot of sense…in a lot of ways has always been a part of the story.” — Rachel Staats [16:49]

• An Idea Seeking the Right Partner:
  The partnership with Arsenal Women was born from the creative idea’s needs, rather than tailored to a sponsor.

  “It was an idea in search of a partner or sponsorship.” — Tati Lindenberg [17:42]

5. Tackling the Taboo: The "Every Stain Should Be Part of the Game" Campaign

• Normalizing Period Stains:
  A 2019 study revealed period blood as the “number one most frequent and toughest stain,” prompting a campaign to address stigma.

  "There’s this double standard for blood in sport…if it’s blood from your nose, you’re brave, and if it’s blood from your uterus, it’s shameful." — Rachel Staats [21:20]

• Creative Breakthrough:
  Early creative visualized the double standard with an athlete’s blood stain outlined to distinguish “brave” (external injuries) from “shame” (period stains).
• Freedom, Not Prescription:
  The campaign offers freedom of choice around periods in sport—empowering women to play as they wish, without prescribing right or wrong.

  “What we wanted with this campaign was not to say, well, you should or should not play when you have your period, it’s to give people freedom of choice.” — Tati Lindenberg [24:47]

• Including Men in the Conversation:
  Persil intentionally involved men at every level—from campaign creation to education outreach—to ensure normalization isn’t just a women’s issue.

  “We partner with Ian Wright...because a large audience of Ian’s podcast is basically men and we want men to hear about the campaign as much as women.” — Tati Lindenberg [28:46]

6. Campaign Impact & Reception

• Extraordinary Reach:
  Achieved 240 million earned impressions in just 2.5 months in the UK, spreading organically to 30 countries.

  “After two and a half months, I think it was 240 million. So it was really out of control.” — Tati Lindenberg [30:58]

• Positive Sentiment and Self-Policing:
  Strong community support—even negative comments were quickly addressed by the campaign’s champions online.

  “We could see how the community manage that poor human being who decided to say anything bad about the campaign.” — Tati Lindenberg [32:17]

7. What’s Next? Returning to the Roots

• Reconnecting with Outdoor Play:
  The team hints at returning to the campaign’s origins—embracing outdoor mess for children’s development, while avoiding parental shaming around screen time.

  “There is still a overprotection outside…Conversely, when you go to indoors, what you noticed is that parents tend to not protect children when they are in front of screens.” — Tati Lindenberg [33:42]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Evolution:
  “Every time the world changes, we kind of have a moment when it’s like, ‘Wait, is dirt still good? I’m not sure.’ And every time we find a way to answer it.” — Rachel Staats [13:21]
• On Taboo-Busting Visuals:
  “Just by taking a picture of an athlete who had blood stained as a result of...a bloody nose...and just putting the outline of an underwear icon around the blood and then drawing a line where it said shame inside the underwear and brave outside of the underwear...there’s something here.” — Rachel Staats [21:20]
• On Freedom of Choice:
  “If you wanted to play on your period and you are afraid of a leak, what we are offering...is not to say hide it, but it’s to say it’s part of the game.” — Tati Lindenberg [24:47]
• On Men as Allies:
  “This is not a campaign only by women to women, is a campaign by mostly women, with some men to everyone. Because the systemic change...can only happen if the campaign reaches them.” — Tati Lindenberg [28:46]
• On Emotional Resonance:
  “That idea that the relationship with the child can be much richer, that it’s that being out in the world and exploring, et cetera, is a powerful way to sort of transform and to build a character in a child rather than the alternative.” — Fergus O’Carroll [32:58]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dirt Is Good platform origins: [06:13]
• Pivot to sustainability and its challenges: [08:44]
• Types of modern "dirt" and necessary product reformulation: [15:09]
• Why sports, and specifically women’s football: [16:49]
• Addressing the taboo of period stains in sport: [20:13]–[24:47]
• Bringing men into the conversation; community outreach: [28:11]–[28:46]
• Campaign impact stats: [30:58]
• Discussion of a possible return to childhood outdoor play focus: [33:42]–[36:09]

Conclusion

This episode offers a masterclass in adapting brand purpose to changing cultural landscapes. Persil’s journey from celebrating kids’ mess to normalizing period stains in sport illustrates the power of staying true to a brand’s core while constantly evolving for relevance. The campaign’s focus on freedom, inclusion, and opening difficult conversations—backed by impressive results—showcases why “Dirt Is Good” remains an enduring and adaptable platform in the world of strategy and marketing.