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This series is brought to you by System One. What if you could predict whether an ad or product or an idea was going to connect with consumers and be successful even before it launched? That's where System 1 comes in. They're the creative effectiveness platform that uses emotional measurement and norms to help brands predict what will truly drive growth and how to further improve it. From new product concepts and packaging to super bowl spots and social campaigns, System1 enables enables you to create with confidence across all of your creative. To learn more, check them out@system1group.com that's system1group.com and by tracksuit. Tracksuit is the affordable always on brand tracking tool that helps marketers and agencies answer the question is what we're doing. Working companies pay $100,000, which I still can't believe, or even more for brand tracking, which is out of the question. For most modern brands. Their in house research experts do the heavy lifting using best in class practices to craft your survey and get you results fast. Tracksuit gives you brand tracking you can afford. Check them out@gotracksuit.com that's gotracksuit.com When I was coming up in the industry, you feared Fallon, you feared Carmichael Lynch. There were a handful of shops around the country in North America that you really did fear and they were among the greats. And I'm thinking specifically around the late 90s, which in my mind was the heyday for creativity for these types of shops. There were the big huge shops in New York and maybe in Chicago, but for some strange reason for midsize shops, we weren't even concerned about them. We did compete against them, but we didn't really think about them as doing the great work. It was shops like Wieden, gsdnm, Carmichael Lynch, Fallon, the Martin agencies. These were the shops that we feared. And going up against them, you better have your best game.
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B
So I was excited to go to
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A
Minneapolis to sit down with these shops to talk about not only what they had done in the past which had had such a massive impact on on me and my early days in the industry, but also on what they were doing today. If you're familiar with the work coming out of Minneapolis back in the day, it was like amazing spots like eds, which ironically, not ironically, but famously Greg Hahn was a part of Greg Hahn from Mischief. That was a B2B spot that ran in the Super Bowl. If you want to see it, you can check it out on our website. Also great campaigns like Citibank, which in my mind is the best campaign For a financial services firm that's ever been produced that came out of Fallon in Minneapolis. BMW Films came out of Fallon in their London office. If you look at Carmichael lynch, you've got the extraordinary body of work that was Harley Davidson. And that work, I think, stands up over time. And it was primarily represented through print work, but was extraordinary. So if you look at all all of this body of work, as well as what these agencies are doing today, the Subaru campaign, the Love platform is 18 years with Carmichael Lynch. All of the Walmart work that is done with Walter Goggins, all that recent work you're seeing now is done out of Fallon in Minneapolis. So it was extraordinary to bring the live show to that city, to talk with those agencies and to talk with people who have been involved in not only the work that has been done in the past, but also the new work to really plug into what is the culture of creativity in Minneapolis. This is an incredible episode. We had a ton of fun recording it, and I hope you enjoy it. This is live from Minneapolis. We were hosted by Carmichael Lynch. Enjoy.
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B
Welcome to OnStrategy Showcase. I'm Fergus O' Carroll in Minneapolis. Thank you and good night. That was great. Who wouldn't want to just end with that? Okay, so let's introduce our guests for tonight. This is the first time we have had CEOs at our table. Now, we were originally supposed to have three CEOs, but Nikki Baker could not make it because of a new business pitch. And it just. The overlaps were pretty brutal. So we have Savannah Brin, who's going to be joining in her absence. But I'm excited about CEOs because they've got a different perspective on it. And what's unique about these CEOs is that they come from unique backgrounds. And so we're going to be talking about that. And they're not only Minneapolis people are Minnesotans, which is a pretty important point. But. But first, we will let Stacy Janicki, CEO of Carmichael lynch, her.
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C
How do I help?
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D
All right, here we go.
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B
Next we have jessica henriks is CEO of donor cole. Hey, everyone. Which used to be coal McVoy, but
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E
now it's still part of Donor Coal.
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B
So is Donor still based in Southfield, Michigan?
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E
It is, yeah. Right outside of Detroit.
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B
Yeah, I remember that building very well. Savannah Brin is head of strategy for Fallon here in Minneapolis. And the main man, Lachlan Badenoch, is chief strategy officer here at Carmichael League. Okay, so I have to read out. We have to keep in mind that the People listening to this show may not know that much about these agencies. So I'm going to read just a simple little thing out here to introduce each so we don't have to spend too much time about these things. Number one, Carmichael Lynch. Founded in the 1960s. 1962 I believe. Member of the Omnicom Collective which is the mid size integrated boutiques, creative boutiques awarded in every discipline. PR Media Effie's Cannes lines Ad Week Media plan of the year. PR Week Awards 2 Sustained Success Awards for Subaru from the Effie's. We're still trying to make an episode about Subaru on our show. I think we cracked a nut tonight by the way on how we can make it happen. Samples of clients include Subaru Maker's Mark, Sherwin Williams, Corbell Post Brands led by CEO Stacy Janicki and Chief Creative Officer Brina Aylward. Hope I pronounced that right. Okay. Fallon 2026 AD Age Comeback shop of the year. We're going to talk about that. Nine new business wins in the last year. Lead creative agency within Publicis for Walmart. All of the Walter Goggins work that we all love to see is created at Fallon. Other clients include Disney and Novartis. You may remember the super bowl spot with the tight ends, sleep number, home goods, pop tarts. I mean it could just go on, right? Led by former Chief Creative officer Nikki Baker. Now CEO and longtime creative partner of Nikki's is Leslie Schaefer. So brilliant stuff. Lastly, Cole Donor Cole Partners. Cole McVoy. Started in 1935. It's 90 years old.
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D
Yeah.
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B
Jesus. It's a Stagwell owned agency. In 2025 it's Adweek's Mid size agency of the year. Shortlist Media Post 2024 Planning and Buying Award Winner 2025 Campaign US Media Planner of the Year 2026 Fast Company Most Innovative honoree clients include Revlon, La z Boy, Purdue, McCormick, Frank's, Red Hot, historically an AG and B2B shopper. We're going to talk about how that's all changed. It's now reinventing itself under CEO Jessica Henricks and Chief Creative Officer Mariana o'. Kelly. Now, for those who listen to what I just said, it's important to note that these three agencies are all run by women. And not just women in the leadership CEO role, but women many times in the president role and in the Chief Creative Officer role. So it's pretty amazing that that is the case. And we'll talk a little bit about that as we go through this conversation. I have One other thing I want to read out before we start asking questions. The names of the people that have come through these agencies over the last few decades are worth taking 60 seconds here to read. Lee Lynch. Many of these are legends of the industry, so it's worthwhile giving them credit because not only do they represent what happened in the past, but I think they have a lot of influence on what's happening today. Lee Lynch, Jack Carmichael, Pat Fallon. Nancy Rice, Tom McElligott, Fred Sand. Sue Krolik, Dave Peterson, Bob Barry, Jack Sopel, Rob White, Bruce Bilston. Bilstein, who actually emailed me today, said he's sorry he couldn't make it today. Michelle Fitzgerald, Greg Hahn from Mischief. David Lubars, who went on to run@run BBDO creatively worldwide. Seth Gaffney, a preacher. Michael Fanouli.
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D
Fanuel.
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B
Fanuel. I know I screw one up. Marty Sen, Jim Nelson. Dean Hanson. Dean Buckhorn. And of course, this guy here, Randy Hughes. This is an amazing, an amazing list of names. Why did it happen here? Lachlan? I mean, why many.
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F
You asked the.
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D
Scott.
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E
Stacy Janecki came through. Cole McCloy, too.
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B
Yeah, right, right.
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C
You know, that's a very good question.
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B
Thank you.
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C
But I think the. I mean, obviously I have the perspective of a Brit that came here and moved here because of the creativity and because of some of the names that you just mentioned. That was the, you know, that was the overarching reason why I ended up here. In full confession. I knew very little about Minneapolis other than that when I first moved here. But there's a really interesting dynamic that I think the others at this table probably know better than me in the sense of you have a big enough city with huge amounts of art and music and kind of maker creativity. I would say, like big business that came out of making stuff or inventing stuff. You know, it's not like a 3M or. Yeah, like 3M and it's like, you know, cereals and wood and like shipping stuff and, you know, airlines. Yeah, airlines. But a medical tech, you know, making devices, not making apps, stuff like that. And whatever that spark was, I don't know what started it off. There was then the fuel, I think, in the city and that energy and that creative sensibility and just passion in all these other groups that I guess fed it. But yeah, I mean, don't ask me. I was in Scotland in a small farm in town.
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B
But what's interesting is I think when you and I talked the last time we, we were talking about the fact that. And this is no diss on Minneapolis, but when you go to la, you go for the weather and the buzz and the culture. If you're in our industry, you don't come to Minneapolis for Minneapolis weather, for example, you come here for Fallon, for Carl McVoy, for Carmichael Lynch. Right. It's one of those places that you definitely.
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C
It's a specific destination, you come for the agencies, but you. You definitely find that. I do think it's a bit of a cliche, but I think the weather also provides some of that grit and drive. And when you see the. Also I meant to mention this. There's a really unique cultural mix of how this part of the Midwest was settled. I always describe it again as a foreigner. So, you know, take with a huge pinch of salt, but it's like one part of Canada, one part Midwest, one part Copenhagen and one part Germany and then with some other stuff mixed in. And that's a really interesting. Like I've never seen that somewhere else. That's a really interesting mix that you have. And it's very visceral in the city and in the culture and the history and the traditions and languages that people have. So.
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B
And it's also a big part Prince, which I hear is a connection to this building in Prince.
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D
Oh yeah, that's a fun one. And first I just want to thank. I mean you named all these countries of which Scotland is not one. But we have your people to thank for drinking Boston out of beer this week. So that's something pretty amazing. There you go.
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F
Yeah, no, it's.
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D
This is this building for. People have been around for a while, used to house Glam Slam, which was Prince's club. And there's pictures of it in the building somewhere. And then on these floors up above were actually where he officed out of. Laura Norton's, our residential kind of expert on this. But I think there were some rooms that had like wall to wall purple shag carpet in them. But I think it's interesting you touched on it a little bit. What happened in January with the occupation, like to me underscored why this has been a thriving creative community. Because it's not in spite of the weather. It's because of. I think we're hearty, we're bold. There's something that like there's this quiet humility. But much like Prince and much like Bob Dylan, these very humble at the surface artists that are really culture shifting underneath and find ways to make impact and difference in a way that like isn't as obvious hit you over the Head as maybe East Coast, West Coast. And I think that creative blood and that creative density, whether it's our food scene, we were just obviously named one of the top food cities in the world, our music scene. So Prince. Yes, and we like, we like to claim them, especially here at Seattle. But I think it's just the creative community that is just the lifeblood for the agency world here and has been from day one.
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B
So let's talk about some of the people that had an impact on you coming up, because both of you were born here or you were born here, so your careers have been full. Mostly you've gone away and come back, we'll talk about that. But you've worked most of your career here. What were some of the highlights and some of the people that influenced you?
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D
Yeah, I mean, I've worked at every holding company, agency. Now, my first boss was Steve Werenberg. I had lunch with him a couple weeks ago and he laughed because he kind of was giving me shit. I was an intern just out of college, and we were pitching Air Touch Cellular, which became, you know, Verizon. And it was like, huge pitch. It was like a $25 million business. And it was 7 o' clock at night. It was like week one. And I fell asleep in the conference room while Steve was talking. And he kind of knocked on the table and he said, am I not saying enough interesting things to keep you awake, Stacy? And I thought, I'm not having a job tomorrow. And so when it was announced when I was promoted to CEO, his post on LinkedIn was intern falls asleep, wakes up CEO. So he's an account person by trade, but I always considered him more planner than account person. And I think I was really inspired by account people that had that strategic gene in their DNA. The other person I would mention, and there's too many for all of us to mention, you named the tree to me, if you're a sports person, it's like the Bill Belichick coaching tree. There's this creative flywheel where you look at the main agencies and you could kind of chart out where all the people have landed. But Sue Krolik, who is 84, I see a lot of people nodding.
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F
She.
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D
She had hoped to be here tonight but wasn't able to make it. I met her about 15 years ago. She was being honored with a lifetime achievement award by the Advertising Federation, and her story is such a fascinating one. And she. I kind of went up to her afterwards and said, can we be friends? At the time there was like, Tuesdays with Maury. So I'm like, we'll call it, you know, Sundays with Sue.
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B
Was she the first art director?
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D
She was the first female art director. There's a lot of people that claim the character of Peggy was probably modeled after her in Mad Men. And so I just started to, like, learn about, like, what she did and her work. And now it's interesting to look around. Like, she's kind of networked and met a lot of the young women in the industry that have been doing this for a while. But she was employee number three at Clark, and she called herself a Girl Friday. So she was kind of a jack of all trades. But she's, you know, she's worked in Detroit on car accounts. Imagine being a woman in the 60s in Detroit because there was a lot of unrest happening and working on car accounts.
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B
So I think for Jessica, I think there's this question of Colm McVoy, because I remember Cole McVoy in the Point of Time where they were doing some amazing AG work, as did Campbell Mathune, as did Martin Williams. And I was at the time of the Martin agency, and we did ag work and I worked on it, and it was actually amazing shit. That stuff was. I mean, it sounds just like, you know, when you look at the dentures and you think, oh, it's just boring. No work is ever boring. It's just boring people.
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E
I agree, I agree.
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B
And that category. So tell us a little bit about where that all. Where that 90 years got to. And then we're going to talk about how the transitioned.
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E
Yeah, I mean, we're 91 now. I think the longest lasting agency in all of Minneapolis and certainly born B2B and AG, primarily in a market that's pretty good for that business, too. And I think what you learn working on AG applies to so many other categories. So I think that was certainly helpful in our reinvention in the last five or six years. But the spirit of what Cole McVoy has brought to the ag industry really stands in that Col McVoy has the ability to come up with work that maybe you didn't see coming. You know, it might be brands that haven't, you know, they aren't the Nikes or the, you know, the brands that are really known for doing disruptive and distinctive work. What I've been so impressed with, what I saw from Colm McVoy before joining there, and what really is still true and alive today is we can take these brands that maybe aren't known for showing up in ways that are unexpected and Creating ideas that you didn't see coming. And so now I would say we are maybe about 40, 30 to 40% B2B. We have a number of clients who are B2B2C but predominantly consumer facing. And in the last six years, we've really reinvented almost everything about Paul McFoy. How we work, the creative ambition that we have as an agency, how our capabilities come together, our method. You know, we've been able to bring a lot of household names onto our roster. You mentioned a number of them. I would add Dairy Queen and several others to the mix that are these iconic American brands. Many are global brands, but really rooted in America. And that understanding of that core community consumer that, you know, the values that we bring, that sort of between the coast mindset, you know, that we've talked a little bit about tonight, that that is alive and well. And it's what I think gives us an advantage, I think gives shops in this market an advantage, you know, to bring to the work that we do. We understand how to connect with real people and how they live today. And, you know, it just so happens that 70% of the GDP is between the coasts. You know, this is where decisions are made and brands are chosen or discarded. And to have that mindset to be able to apply outside of the coastal kind of eco chamber and that understanding of the core consumer that lives and works here, whether it's AG or B2B or consumer brands, I think is incredibly relevant today.
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B
I mean, the thing for me is, because we've done a lot of these live shows in markets, and I entered the tour thinking there must be a Boston way, there must be a Dallas way, there must be a this and a that. But I've stopped asking that question because I don't think there is. I think there's talented people are coming to a market, they're bringing their talent, they're executing it. But it's not because we're from Minneapolis, it's because we ended up in Minneapolis. What about Fallon? So for Fallon, I got a. You know, Dan Sutton is here tonight, standing up there, number one. I bring him up because he was the planner on the Citibank work, which we did an episode on it. And it's still one of my favorite campaigns ever. And if you haven't heard that episode, you should check it out. Fallon has an amazing history, and I know that you have. You have a connection to some of those original people you worked around. Pat, how would you describe the culture there and the history of that show?
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F
I mean, so my history with Fallon, I feel very humbled to represent Fallon because it actually. My dad worked at Fallon in 1986. He worked there through 1993. So I grew up at Fallon as a six year old. And so I remember a lot of the faces that you're in, the names that you're talking about as like, sort of intimidating, scary people in a boardroom, you know what I mean? Arguing, fighting. Like, it was not a. It's not the Minnesota nice that you think everybody has a voice. Everyone. Like, the idea was, it's a dysfunctional family. It gives an obsession with the best idea. And my dad was that way. And it was, you know, when we would go to work, we would get shoved in a room and, you know, a VHS tape would get put on and we would not be visited for eight hours. So, like, it was all about making amazing work. Like, that's what it was. And I think those guys in particular you mentioned, you know, Bob Barry and Dean Hansen and Bruce Bilson, like Michael Escarbo, I mean, Doug DeGroote, like, you could keep going on and on and on. I think that it started there and it started with that idea of, like, the idea is the most important thing. We're not in the advertising business, we're in the ideas business. And that you could sell anything and you could do anything. But I also think that there is a competitive spirit in Minneapolis that comes from it being just a deep, like you mentioned, a creator culture. I'm like, this is. You go to Arterworld in May. This is a full. People are making things. You're absolutely right about that. But they're doing it and they want to make things and they want to build things. And you can. You can collaborate with each other because it's such an accessible city. And so when you look at the restaurant scene and all these different places and all these different spaces in Minneapolis, I think that all of that felt, all that energy is what I remember from Fallon, of just bringing in people. Like, these were writers and artists, and they weren't. They didn't go to school for advertising. So to me, that was what makes it so special. And I think that is still in Minneapolis, but also it's still definitely at Fallon. I think that's what's giving us momentum today is that idea of it's not about advertising things, it's about the best idea and finding those human insights as a planner and really helping clients entertain, you know, and those kinds of things, I think, are what's really changing it.
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B
So for Those listening to the show, not here in the room, you guys already know this in the room. But when we talk about Fallon, we're talking about Citibank, we're talking about United Airlines, Sony, eds. That herding cat's hat from 2000 is again, one of my favorite favorites. And that was Greg Hahn, Miller Light. That shit was so crazy back in the day. Coca Cola, BMW films out of the London office of Fallon, pbs, Stay curious. And there's so many different campaigns. So that that spirit of Pat Fallon and all of those people who came through, how is. I mean, is it evident today and in what ways?
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F
Well, I think that when you walk through Fallon, you know, like, Fallon to me is a part of my identity. If you spend any time working at Fallon, you know that you absorb it, you feel that the, like, anytime the bar is raised that high, you feel you have to reach that. It's not something that we say is from the past. It's something about who we are today and we learn from it. And so I think that it just creates group of people that want to live up to that, to that work and have such a deep, deep respect for the people who made it. And so, yeah, I mean, I think we still talk about all of it. We still bring it up, we still discuss it, we still use it. I mean, a lot of things are cyclical, too. So you look at some of the lessons learned from making BMW films, which I know I worked for Bruce Bilston, he gave me one of my first breaks. He's an amazing person. And he, you know, when I hear him talk about that, so many of those lessons, the fights that they went through to make that work happen are a part of what we're doing today. It's just different context. So I think that it's important to keep talking about that work because again, I keep going back to, like, they were just brilliant ideas. Like, it wasn't as if it was like this attempt to sell something to a client. It was like, well, the idea is going to sell it itself. It's a brilliant idea. And so that. That's where it feels really simple to kind of keep looking back.
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B
I mean, when you look at. You look at Brawny Academy, when you look at BMW films, I mean, I think they would be as relevant today, if you launch them today. They'd be as sticky as they'd probably be stickier than they were back in the day.
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F
Yeah. And I think it's important to note too, that there was. There was a real reason behind it, you know, when you look at something like BMW films, you and you think about like, who were they going after? These were people who were not as impacted by direct advertising. You know, they didn't want to be interrupted. They knew a lot about the car. So you were really trying to figure out a way to circumvent traditional channels to get something to them that they were going to connect with and find, you know, this more affluent auto shopper. So I think that there was also, there's a real purpose. It wasn't just made because it was like, oh, someone had a wild idea that they wanted. Like there was a real, there was a real strategy behind what, what they were doing. And it just happened to be that it was the first time that you had that it had been done in that sense. But I think there's so many stories behind it that you can learn from about kind of how to make sure that something is placed both in the moment in time, but also understand how important the strategy was to actually selling it.
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C
And a real all hands on deck effort. I mean both of them, the ones you just mentioned, that was either directly or tangentially close to and I think is again something that all of our agencies still do today that is part of that Minneapolis spirit is everyone figuring out ways to do different new things. So it's hard to remember when BMW films launched, there were no YouTube.
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F
Exactly.
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C
Most people didn't have broadband. The only way you could watch a video on mind was to download the thing. And there wasn't even a player that was apt for the purpose. So the IT department and the digital department had to code and build a player that would download in the background. And to watch them you had to.
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B
So effective. This wasn't really the filter for that work. Right.
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C
Well, but then. And then the media department had to figure out how and justify and connections planning you mentioned Michelle Fitzgerald was a real kind of pioneer of that and incredibly influential. When I joined Fallon. Figure out a different way to talk about effectiveness and to talk about the value of. I think we coined the brand minute and like shifting huge amounts of media money into production because of course that cost a fortune to make but with a really thought out plan. From the tech side of it to the brand planning to the connections planning to the media investment to the PR that stepped in to get some of that broader publicity. You know, just everyone figuring out new ways to do things. And we've done that with, you know, things like Helzberg or you know.
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E
Right.
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D
First of all, you're just listing out and I get, like, jealous in the best way hearing all of those things. And I think there's like a frenemies thing going on with Minneapolis agencies, where in the 90s were like. There was the Mad Men era and, you know, a lot of these founders were kind of in the 60s starting their agencies. And then I think the second golden era was the 90s. And I think there's a reason why we're all watching, you know, the Love Story on fx, even though it's a really shitty show, because there's like a pining for. Can I swear on this? Because there's this, like, nostalgia. Pining for the 90s was right on the precipice of cell phones, streaming services, all the things. And there was monoculture where we could. Even advertising extended to that. TV shows, like, and commercials were part of that, where everyone knew about, you know, the Buddy Lee ads, which we didn't even name that one, right? The Buddy Lee stuff and the Miller Lite stuff. So I think it's like, it's different now. It's harder to get people's attention. But when you do, when there's these cultural zeitgeisty moments, like the Knicks winning, like, I'm sure everyone's seen that term of cultural effervescence of like, even if you're not a Knicks fan, we all just were engaged because, like, there's these like, same thing when the astronauts were right. Like, there's so very few things we share as a culture anymore that we can one, agree on two, we're all watching at the same time. That just gives us joy. And I think there was more opportunities for that in the 90s. And advertising even was like more of a form of entertainment then because you couldn't fast forward, you had to entertain.
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B
But I think if you look at. To you guys, I think for Carmichael lynch, when you look at. I was looking at it today, the Harley Davidson work, the Porsche work, I mean, that stuff would still work today. I think in terms of social post.
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C
People ask me about it today as if I was around for, you know, but not people in the industry. But there are ads that are from that era that have that cultural legacy. I mean. And also, you know, cat herders, people ask me about that randomly now and again. You know, they have real sticking power, some of those ads. And there's just some real great. I mean, just amazing ideas and also deep craft of like the copywriting and the art direction.
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D
There's a. There's a print ad. I miss the days of print because you can tell a story and one headline with a beautiful visual, and people still in pitches and meetings say, like, oh, my God, I love that Harley ad. And it shows a rider driving off into the sunset. And it just says somewhere there's a businessman opening a small bag of peanuts on an airplane. And it's just like, I hope I got it relatively close. But it's just a brilliant idea that a lot of people have seen. And even though it's, what, 30 years from that, we still remember, we still play it back. I think, like, I'm looking at Randy and Alyssa sitting behind me and my colleagues who are, you know, work on Subaru. Randy, 18 years, the architect of that brand.
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B
It's unbelievable.
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D
There is nothing more simple than the idea of love to sell a car company. But it's simple. Shouldn't be mistaken for easy, right? Because it's a human truth. But for 18 years, that idea was insightful and smart enough that we can breathe life into it and find ways to execute it, both from a media perspective, from a creative standpoint that like to win two sustained success fes. I don't think it's ever been done in the automotive category. And that comes when you do that hard work of simple. It's kind of like, I liken it to middle school and we're all in algebra and you, like, solve for X and what you turn in is like a simple X equals 12, but you have two sheets of paper where all the work's been done to like, figure out what that simple variable solves for. And that's, you know, you can build on that because that's a lot of how we pull in planning and think about how we get to that reduction.
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B
Yeah, let's talk about that in the context of Subaru because it's a good point to turn about. Do you want to do that or you want to.
- [34:12]
C
Yeah, we can turn it to Subaru as well. But that hard work piece, it's back to the point that we've all been kind of touching on, of really anchoring it to something that's deeply true in culture, but also rooted very deeply in who the client is, who the brand is. And getting to that simple thing that's true to them is more important than ever because the world is noisier, messier. Advertising is a weaker force than ever because of all the other things going on and in people's lives, but also because it allows you the consistency and repetition to do year after year after year and build that brand equity and shout out, I don't know whether it's sitting there. But, you know, that's one of the amazing things. I feel really fortunate that we're now in an era where we have great data from people like System 1 and the work they're doing with the Effies and beyond. That really proves the case of not only emotion being so powerful, but finding that simple thing that you can be true to and consistent to over time drives wildly outside business results. And like, if we're not doing that, we're not really doing the. We're not doing our clients justice, we're not doing ourselves justice, but we're not doing the real hard work. So, yes, we always want to have breakthrough fun ideas. But I think, to your point, I think your question about planning's role is helping make sure that we're always tethering it back to those deeper truths about culture and consumers and about the brand and who they are and can they commit to an idea and are they able to run it through every part of their organization? So it changes the way that phones are answered or that dealers do promotions or sign contracts and all of that kind of stuff, which is where a lot of the magic.
- [36:04]
D
Yeah, I think there's a legendary spot called Baby Driver that is. If you haven't seen it, you probably just don't know it by name. But it was one of the first spots we did for them. And in pitches, people always say, I always bought a car because that spot, because it was all about safety. And you watch it and you're like, we don't even use the word safe in it. It's a human story about a dad who hands his, you know, the car keys over to see his, you know, teenager drive off. And you know, in a moment he looks and you realize he's looking at his three year old in the car behind the wheel. Because it's like all of us that have had, you know, I get goosebumps still talking about it. And she drives off and it's really amazing because that's such a simple idea. And for anyone that's had a kid where you've handed the keys to them and you're like, oh my gosh, this is everything I love and care for that's about to drive out of my driveway. It just resonates and hits you, but it's interesting. We gotta get the casting right on that. And they had gone through casting reads, I don't know how many takes. And finally there was a guy on the production team who happened to have a seg card. And he says, you know, I have daughters that are that age. We can give it a shot. I mean, and you, because you can't manufacture the emotion of those, you know, characters. And so that was brilliant. And that spot ended up being Emmy nominated based on how it promoted safety.
- [37:24]
B
How did you get to simple with Subaru? Because it's, I mean, was that a hard journey to get to that? Because my understanding is they have been doing no.
- [37:35]
D
So like, I'll try to tell this story as brief as possible and I wish we had Randy sitting here because he would be the best person to tell it. But there's literally a book written about Subaru called Where the Suckers Moon that was required reading in MBA classes about what not to do in marketing. They had gone through seven agencies in eight years, six taglines in seven years. For multiple years their sales have plateaued at about 180,000 cars per year. And you know, they're owned by a, a Japanese company that's very engineering driven. It was a very great car. So their instincts were to focus on, you know, the rational benefits of, of, you know, all wheel drive and a boxer engine. And when we won the business, we started doing focus groups. And the one thing we realized is the people that drove Subarus was a really small, small group, but they were fiercely loyal. They were the most likely to buy another Subaru of any other car manufacturer, even though it was like a 21 market share. And now it's, you know, I think, is it 11 8. Forget what the number is now. But they were the most. We, we used our strategy group. They were the most apt to assign a gender to the car. They were the most apt to name their car. We have a Subaru. My daughter named Riggins after the character in Friday Night Lights. Orange Crosstrek.
- [38:50]
B
In part that was because these cars lasted so long, they became part of the family.
- [38:54]
D
Not really though. Like, yes, but it was because there was something we had to under like uncover of why people bought them. And, and I remember one of the planners that worked on it me told me the story. They were in focus groups and someone just bought a Subaru. And they said, well, why did you buy a Subaru instead of a Toyota? He's like, I look around at my neighbors and the people that actually own Subarus actually did stuff right. Like even more so than people that were buying Jeeps that were cosplaying as adventurous people. So like, and I think the reason why Subaru took off is like the strategy insight was it's a co Conspirator to the life you love. And that's what was the unlock about love. Because whether you love camping, whether you love your dogs, whether you like adventure, whether you love your children. Right. Like safety thing, it's the catalyst to that. It's the co conspirator. And we shared that kind of with our consumers. So that was kind of the key to telling those stories and kind of
- [39:46]
C
back to again, something you brought up about the rigor or the reason behind work. People look at, you know, dogs driving cars and go, that's so fun. But part of that investigation of what is that life that Subaru owners really love and use the car to really engage with, was digging through all the data and like looking at MRI and saying, oh wow, they really over index for owning dogs. Oh my God, they way over index for like multiple dogs. So it's like we have dogs in the ads. Is it fun? Yes, it does super fun ads and it helps make them break through. But that's not the reason why they're there. There's a deep product and consumer truth as to why that is.
- [40:27]
D
And shout out to media because the media team uncovered that data point.
- [40:31]
F
It's probably a real expression of their love, right?
- [40:34]
D
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
- [40:35]
C
Yeah.
- [40:36]
B
So let's talk about Walmart because it's the most recent sort of major national campaign that's come out of fallout. And I think also you've kind of changed the way that they market themselves too. I mean, I think Walter Goggins is probably the most obvious expression of that. But where did that all come from? What was at the heart of it?
- [40:57]
F
Yeah, so it's kind of, I mean, Walmart is run by some amazing marketers. And I think, you know, William White, brilliant vision and I think what I was there for, the creation of, the positioning of, of all of that work, which was several years ago and it's sort of had its evolution since then, but.
- [41:19]
B
And what was the original position?
- [41:20]
F
Yeah, really at the beginning, what we found was Walmart was known in this, known in people's minds in a very functional way. People thought of the bricks and mortar store, they thought of needs, they thought of toilet paper and they thought of, you know, paper towels and diapers and things that you need to stock up on. And they were shopping in a very specific way. And what they didn't realize was that there are half a billion items on Walmart.com and you know, that Walmart has available. They didn't know that Walmart has a delivery service for groceries that will put them away in your fridge. They just, they didn't know all of the things that Walmart can offer to them. And I think that sounds like kind of one of those things that you hear and you're like, what am I going to do with that? Every brand has come and said that to us. But what we really found was that we, you know, as when we looked at through a planning lens, we actually started to talk to people and we started to realize that behind the function was actually a lot of love and a lot of passion. And so what we did was we started to kind of harness and understand that through Walmart people basically live their entire lives. You know, you build that dream patio that, that you wanted to build, you throw your kid's graduation party. There's all of these sort of amazing moments, but they're really deeply personal. And so the positioning went from welcome to Walmart, which you get the greeter every single time you come in, to welcome to my Walmart. And so it was really that small, subtle shift. It was just a small shift, but a huge implication because what you see in the Walter Goggins work with who knew is really, if you move past that, we, we used to talk about it internally as we wanting to move from need states to want states. And so everything from the beginning with Walmart when we first launched the work.
- [43:07]
B
But who knew doesn't feel like that's a my Walmart.
- [43:11]
F
Who knew that they had what's for me, right? So if you start to look at how it's like the recent work that just came out, which I love is all about, I think his name is Luis Suarez and he's a football player with soccer player and he's throwing, you know, the ultimate fan party, right? They're teaching him how to be a fan. And so it's for anybody who's watching FIFA thinking about soccer wants to throw a, you know, a fan party for themselves. So what they've done so brilliantly is figured out. Look, the world is not all the same. There are millions of verticals. Nikki always says she's a big fan of those. She calls them Sexy Dragon novels. And so she's like, look, we go to Walmart and we present sexy Dragon novel ideas to. Because you know what's going to happen. There may be only this many people who love that, but those people have a huge audience outside and those people are going to sell our brand. And so I think that it's a collaboration between Nikki Baker, 100%, she's the CCO, we work with Other agencies in publicis. So it's like sort of. It's a very collaborative group and lots of credit goes out to those agencies, but also deep collaboration with a client. They're really, really smart, you know, clients. They're willing to take risks. They believe in entertaining work. And so I think.
- [44:24]
B
What was their long term. For a very long time they had. What was it? Something Live better. It's lower prices. What was it again? Does anybody remember what that was? I've forgotten.
- [44:34]
F
It's always about saving money. Living better is what it is. And like, it's never not. We're never going to hide the prices. Like, we're never going to. We're never going to pretend that that's not a part of what the motivation is, but also that there's so much access and ability there too.
- [44:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's always a good reflection when you've got a positioning message or a tagline that in essence, sometimes that runs out in terms of its ability to grow shares. You've got to bring more people into the tent and you got to pivot a little bit or evolve it or as you go forward. So La Z Boy is a big one for Cole McFoy in the last year or two, right?
- [45:11]
E
Yeah, in the last few years.
- [45:13]
B
Tell us about that campaign.
- [45:14]
D
Sure.
- [45:15]
E
Well, La Z Boy came to us after they had done some soul searching. They had really dug into the data because, you know, they had come to a point where they were telling people they were something that they weren't. They almost hid the recliner in the back of the store. Ashamed of it. You know, they were trying to be a modern furniture store. They hired people like Kristen Bell and other celebrities. And you saw the white couch and there was sort of this cognitive dissonance. It's like, that's not La Z Boy. If you Google La Z Boy, the brown chair shows up. So it was really trying to prove something and ended up finding itself in a sea of sameness, as we all like to say. And so one of. So the CMO at the time who reached out to us really recognized that there was an opportunity to be more La Z Boy, to embrace who they are at their core. Because at their core, they're the originators of comfort. You know, when you look at their founder's story. And the two, the two men who founded La Z Boy, they were the ones who designed the world's first recliner. The chairs weren't meant to just sit up and, you know, have great posture. They were meant to unwind and Relax. And so when we got started, it was through a PR and earned creative engagement. And we got to signal what La Z Boy really stood for out to the world. While at that time we were also working on our partnership to lead their brand identity. And so the timing of that was really remarkable because we started to come up with ideas to tell the world who La Z Boy was, while we knew kind of where the brand identity was headed, to get back to its roots to some degree. So the first idea that our PR and EARN creative team came up with, that I love so much, it was the first idea. And they were like, no, this is the idea. You give them an idea and it's like, okay, we'll do a brief. And they're like, no, no, no, this is the idea. And it tapped into, we all know fomo, the fear of missing out. And this was coming at a time post Covid, where really there was this trend online around Jomo, the joy of missing out. We had all, you know, leaned into hustle culture for so long that we were like, getting that text on a Friday night, you know, do you want to have dinner? Do you want to go to a movie? You're like, no, I just want to relax. I don't want to go out. I want to stay in. Which was so relatable to me. And so, you know, they came up with the idea, they called it the Decliner, which is great. I love a good name. And it's the world's first AI powered recliner that, with the pull of a handle, it declines invitations on your cell phone so you can stay in at the comfort of your own home, which La Z Boy celebrates. And at the same time, we were partnering with their creative agency to launch Long Live the Lazy. And we were building the brand identity to really redesign every touch point of the brand.
- [48:13]
A
Yeah.
- [48:13]
E
And so from the store experience experiences to the E commerce positioning to, you know, we really looked at their identity as obviously so much more than just a logo. And we launched that just a bit over maybe a year and a half ago. We launched their new identity at a time when, you know, the world was talking about Jaguar and Cracker Barrel and other brand identities gone wrong. And we told the story of intentionality around La Z Boy. We hearkened back to some of the original script writing. We modernized it with really intentional details that really showed the consumer, you know, whether it's the pull of a handle or the curvature of the chair, we really brought that in and we thought about, what is the La Z Boy scent? What do we want the color palette to make you feel? And how do we bring it to life through all the senses? And so we were really proud. It was named one of the best rebrands of the year. And.
- [49:06]
B
And I think one of the things that's important to note because you guys have all touched upon it in what you've said here. You guys have what most agencies, I think are struggling with not having. I mean, you're fully integrated, meaning you have the media function inside your group.
- [49:28]
E
We never separated it, we never decoupled. And I think that's creative media is one of our superpowers. You know, we have full funnel media, full ecosystem media, but we don't. We bring media to the idea whether it's asked for or not. We don't know necessarily how to pull that apart. In today's fragmented media ecosystem, we have to understand how the idea and how it's coming to life are truly inextricably linked as.
- [49:58]
B
So how does this play out? Because I hear from shops all the time, they come to this roundtable and then they're like, boy, I wish we could bring it all back together. You guys have it. Still have it.
- [50:09]
C
Again, I was in the position where so before I left London, I was at Leo Burnett when Starcom was still called Leo Burnett Media. And they sat side by side with us through were in the meetings, they were in the creative brainstorms. And then the whole industry trend towards leveraging media buying power happened and they broke it off and they moved out of the offices, went to a different building, and we almost never saw them again. I'm exaggerating a little, but only a little. And it was kind of catastrophic for exactly the stuff we're talking about and the stuff that I know we're always proudest of the ideas where we're like, was that a PR idea or a creative team idea or a media idea or a digital idea? And it's kind of all of them and you can't unpick them, just like you were saying. And, you know, you look back, you know, whether it's brawny BMW, you know, those sort of ideas are so, so much better and only happen when you have that really strong connection and again, shap out to the data that people are doing these days, really proving that, yeah, you can do just media and improve sales, you can just get a better creative idea. When you do them together, the results are exponentially better. And it's so clearly the thing to do. And I think we're all fortunate in the fact that we have never lost it. And it's a deep part of our culture and the way we think and a deep part of the creative ambition. To your point, that isn't just about the creative department. It's all of us, and it's all the better for it.
- [51:58]
B
Yeah. I mean, we've had many healthy discussions on the show about the fact that planning and strategy has been splintered into so many different versions and it's impossible to keep together for the best of strategists, let alone for people who are trying to come in and figure it all out. It's tough. It's duplication of effort. There seems to be at many touch
- [52:23]
C
points there can be. But again, if you're working closely together. And again, I'm going to come back to something you said about the central nature of creativity and the creator bar. I think that was one of the things that I was incredibly, I want to say relieved when I moved to Minneapolis. And it's one of the reasons I came back and one of the reasons I came to Carmichael lynch is that I was moving to the city knowing the creative prowess and the deep, deep history and craft and belief in the power of ideas and really crafting those ideas to the best they could possibly be. But lots of people were questioning me in London about is that craft and that rigor of planning. Is that in the agencies in Minneapolis? And they weren't sure because they knew it kind of got to San Francisco and LA and New York a little bit, but they were like, does it exist there? And very quickly it was four fortunate enough to interview with people like Dan Sutton and realize, oh, my God, yeah, they're absolutely that deep, rigorous, hardcore planner that is not just a strategist, but understands and is kind of intimately connected with creative thinking and creative power, if you like. There are strategists and types of strategists that don't ever need to know about why certain kinds of creativity work or how media amplifies a creative idea. But. And I'm not one of these people that cares a lot about whether you call yourself a strategist or a planner, but there is a history and a craft and a metier of planning or creative strategy that is deeply embedded in the agencies. I've been lucky enough to work here and is and is such a rich environment to work in personally, but also is incredibly important to the effectiveness of the work we do.
- [54:26]
B
So let's go back to the point we made at the top of the conversation, which was the fact that these Three agencies are women led at so many levels. What difference has it made? How has it changed?
- [54:42]
E
Or, Lachlan, would you like to answer
- [54:46]
F
what difference has it made?
- [54:47]
C
I feel like I shouldn't be the first just.
- [54:49]
D
And I might have conspired a little
- [54:50]
B
ahead of time on this answer. Notes have been passed.
- [54:56]
C
Well, I'll try and keep my answer of this short because really, you should be answering this, but that's a good start. On a personal level, it means I'll get to where with amazing, brilliant people, period. And that's, you know, they are brilliant, amazing people because of fundamentally who they are. But I think it's super important in what it signifies and the message it sends more broadly, because we're still in a world where it's not like the glass ceiling has gone away. It's not like there are lots of inequities and, you know, biases and prejudices that still influence lots of corners of business and the world we live in. So to see that there are places where that is not true and there are places where it is genuinely the merits and the talents of the individuals that are in these jobs, that feels like it's a very important signal in the world.
- [55:53]
E
I think we would want to see the most qualified people at the top of any of these shops at one of the most complicated eras that we're going to be facing in advertising. I love that for the brands here in the Twin Cities, those are women. I hadn't made that connection until you told me. And I. That makes me happy, too, because I look across and I see really qualified leaders who are doing incredible things. And it had to be pointed out to me that we all happen to be women. You know, we didn't get here on our own. There are a lot of women who paved the way in this city. You know, you mentioned, sue, there are so many incredible women who have led at a time when it was harder to knock down that wall. And certainly it's not, you know, it's not easy today to become a leader of an agency, man or woman, you know, but I love that we're in a moment right now where that's not something that is looked at as such an exception. I think it's. We're looking for the most qualified people who have worked really hard and have a vision for where we're going.
- [57:10]
B
Yeah, our industry is pretty. It seems that our industry is doing pretty brilliant in that area.
- [57:15]
E
Yeah.
- [57:16]
D
Look at this room. And I know about 80% of the people here and many are. If I haven't worked with them. I've had the ability to get to know them. And there's just so many brilliant women. And like I said, I think the city has a legacy of women who have been in leadership positions. So, like, Jas. And you said it. Well, like, I didn't really think about it until you said it.
- [57:37]
B
So we're going to wrap it up there. It's been fantastic to have the four of you here. The table. Thank you for being here. Our next stop on the live tour is at GSDM in Austin, Texas. And we're going to be at Cannes next week doing roundtables there, too. But being here, and I have nothing but hope you got the energy that I have. That work, that body of work just, it made me excited to be in the business and to want to be a part of it back then and back then and now, I still see great examples of work happening again in this city. I think there's a renaissance happening in Minneapolis, which is amazing. Thank you to everybody here. Thank you to Laura. I don't see Laura here, but I wanted to thank Laura for making everything possible. Laura Norton. And thank you, everybody coming out here. We had an amazing turnout and I know that tomorrow is the start of a, of a long weekend. So we appreciate you coming here to hang out with us. We'll see. As we end up with every show, we say we'll see you on the next episode. Good night. Thank you.