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On Strategy Showcase
On the Spot: Progressive & Chick fil-A. Planners talking about brands they've never worked on
00:49:34
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- [00:01]
Host
So we are back for the second episode of on the Spot. It's where misfits talk about brands they've never worked on. It's actually what planners and people in the industry tend to do when they're sitting in bars is they talk about other people's campaigns. The difference here is we're not actually going to be critical. This is not a show about criticizing work. It actually is featuring content and brands and campaigns that we really like. And so we're here to talk about what we like about them. Maybe there's some comments we have on how they're structured, how they go to market market. And it's just fun. I am thrilled this time to join a couple of new people in with our base panel of misfits, which our base panel of misfits will always be going forward unless they're sick and need a replacement. Vanessa Chin, SVP marketing at System1. Good to have you back.
- [00:51]
Vanessa Chin
Glad to be here.
- [00:53]
Host
Matt Herbert is the co founder and co CEO of Tracksuit in New York. Good to have you.
- [00:57]
Matt Herbert
What a pleasure.
- [00:58]
Host
Thanks. And our guest planners for this month, Marika Wiggin is head of strategy at Preacher in Austin. She's been on the show before and she has some, some experience that's relevant to one of our brands we're going to be talking about today. So great to have you back on the show. Marike.
- [01:13]
Marika Wiggin
Excited to be here.
- [01:15]
Host
And Alan Snitto is freelance strategist here in Chicago. He, he's got phenomenal pedigree, worked with many great shops in different parts of the US and we met Alan here at our holiday show in Chicago. Good to have you here.
- [01:30]
Alan Snitto
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
- [01:32]
Host
So as we did last time, we talk about a couple of different brands and we just share our opinions. This month we have Progressive Insurance and we have Chick Fil A. I'm a big fan of both of these campaigns. I think for many years I've looked at the insurance category as being sort of a great example of sort of branded performance marketing. And I've talked about that in different shows with different folks and it just really seems to work well. But there's also a bunch of of fascinating things that are happening in that category in the last 15 years or so. And we're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about Chick Fil A, which has got a fascinating backstory. And for those who don't know Chick Fil A, it is a QSR brand here in the US it is actually the number three brand in the category where McDonald's is one, Starbucks is second and Chick Fil A is third in terms of revenue and a creative campaign that is second. Second to a few. And I think it's a great example. So those two brands are what we're going to talk about today as we've always done in the past. I'll just kick it off with a little background on the progressive insurance work and then I'll throw it out to our band of misfits here to add their commentary to how this is all going to play out. And we're going to drop some of the creative work in also here. So the first is Progressive Insurance. Arnold Worldwide in Boston has worked with this brand. I think it's from like 2008. 2008 was when the flow campaign broke here in the US and Flo is that character. What was really fascinating and I didn't see it happen immediately back then. But the flip on the whole category is that it is moved from a category marketed based on fear based tropes. You know, what is that risk? What do you risk by not having insurance? And you know, obviously auto insurance, which is what they initially were marketing. You've got to have auto insurance here in the US So it's a mandatory. You have to have it. But they evolved to one based on sort of fame based characters and a lot of entertaining. A lot of entertaining work. The thing before I throw it to you guys, the thing that struck me over the years is that except I think Allstate, everybody else is doing the same thing, which is not doing a single campaign. Marika, they're doing multiple campaigns at once. And I don't know. I don't know. I've heard a theory about it. But what do you think of that idea of multiple campaigns running at one time?
- [04:27]
Marika Wiggin
I. I love it. I think long gone are the days where you're running a singular notion on tv and I almost, I don't know, maybe this will make sense to y'all. Is I think of progressive as having found the same power as you would like a broadcast network where you're basically tuning into three different shows so you have flow, you have don't become your parents. And now you have the new one that just came out with Passive Progressive. To me it feels like you've created episodic content that now you look forward to. So it's like they're actually behaving more like Hulu. So you're like looking forward to your version of progressive when you're watching it.
- [05:07]
Host
I wonder does that come out of some insight that says that you either build. Matt, you either build equity faster or engagement faster by having these layered. Because I can imagine that was a tough thing to sell in because there isn't like. I don't think there's a seasonality to it. I know that Flo and Dr. Rick served different, you know, different masters. Dr. Rick was started off as being more about homeowners insurance. Flo was about auto insurance. But what about this layered effect? Do you see any benefits to that in sort of in brand tracking?
- [05:45]
Matt Herbert
Yeah, I think it's. I think it's really interesting. You said that insurance, everybody has to have.
- [05:49]
Alan Snitto
Right.
- [05:50]
Matt Herbert
Especially. Especially auto. And with such a mass market, they need to go at what Progressive is doing really well that we can see is they are. They are in the top three most considered insurance brands in the US So they've done that. They've done that job. Most people only consider three brands. State Farm, Geico, Progressive. That's the top three that we're looking at. And then what was kind of interesting and to the point about the different characters and different storylines is that we're seeing Progressive sees slight increases with the female audience, whereas Geico is seeing increases with the male audience and State Farmers kind of just plateauing or on the decrease a little bit. So I think speaking to the different aspects and segments of the market is coming through and each of Those characters, Flo, Dr. Rick are appealing to the different segments, which is great.
- [06:45]
Alan Snitto
To your point about the roles, I think they each kind of have different jobs. Right. And some, I think one of the sort of early innovators in doing this was in the category was Geico. Right. And so they had a gecko and the gecko work had one job maybe about saving money. The cavemen had another job about how easy and simple this was. Other things like, you know, camels walking through on hump day had another job. So, you know, they created these different campaigns and it was so groundbreaking at the time. Nike is someone else who I think historically has done wildly different work that doesn't all look and sound the same. But, you know, coming up, in a world where we were taught about, you know, integrated marketing, communications and matching luggage and stuff, the idea of someone coming out and saying, actually that is not necessarily the best way to build a brand and you can have wildly different messages is a really interesting thing.
- [07:33]
Matt Herbert
Ellen, when you were at ddb, were you across the State Farm work?
- [07:36]
Alan Snitto
I touched State Farm a little bit, yeah.
- [07:39]
Matt Herbert
And how with Geico and Progressive and State Farm. What was that conversation happening back in the day then?
- [07:47]
Alan Snitto
Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing I've always found interesting about, you know, insurance is there was a time back in the day when the entertainment humor based, you know, everywhere brands were the beer brands, right? And you looked at Bud and Bud Light and Miller Light and these guys did this amazing, funny, humorous work that dominated the airwaves. And at some point a flip was switch was flipped, right? And all of a sudden this ostensibly boring, complex, you know, difficult, confusing category of insurance became kind of the new beer marketing model, right? And they all moved to humor, they all moved to entertainment and engagement and the whole category. Now they're all billion dollar spenders and you, you barely see, you know, a beer brand anymore. But you can't escape one of these enormous spenders who are out there and by the way, all fighting very similar battles, right? I mean, Dr. Rick and a lot of this work is about bundling, right? State Farm is about bundling. Everybody's trying to get share of wallet. Everybody recognizes you've got home and you've got auto and you've got all the specialty stuff. And it's like, hey, how do we develop work that engages people? And you know, finally we have really big sophisticated marketers who are ascribing to the idea that maybe the best way to build a brand and a business is through entertainment and engagement and fame, right? Versus persuasion and you know, telling some rational story that somehow is going to, you know, flip a switch in people's minds.
- [09:12]
Host
We'll be right back. Are celebrities the secret sauce to add effectiveness? What about music or brand characters? You can predict and improve advertising's commercial impact with System 1's test yout ad Platform. Test yout Add is the creative effectiveness platform that measures consumers emotional responses, predicting the sales and growth impacts of advertising. You can test creative for linear and connected tv, digital, outdoor, audio and print channels from early concepts through to finished film plus access. System One's Test yout Ad Premium platform. With more than 150,000 ads in the database, you get the most accurate view of your category with results and rankings updated daily. So create with confidence. To learn more, visit systemonegroup.com that's systemone group.com now back to the show. So Vanessa, you know, it used to be to Alan's point, the challenge was how do I fit all of these product categories and these offerings, particularly in services under one umbrella, One campaign fully integrated and then this sort of switch is flipped. Is there advantages to that?
- [10:29]
Vanessa Chin
Overall, the insurance category does Very well with branding. Each of the big four, as we mentioned, you know, State Farm, Geico, Allstate, Progressive, they all are performing above average when it comes to their brand strength. I mean, this is also mentioned that it's a multibillion dollar category. That's a lot of investment. And so from a creative standpoint, when you're approaching the work with humor, you don't know which jokes are going to hit. And so there is a lot of experimentation in this category. There's a lot of risk taking in this category. And I think that what each of the brands is doing really well is keeping the content fresh, trying different avenues to get that emotional connection, seeing what works and building on it and trying different things, which I think is the most important thing is really entertainment.
- [11:25]
Host
Yeah, I remember. I remember a couple of years ago, the former CEO of the Martin Agency, they have the GEICO work, Matt Williams, he wrote something and he was. I don't know if this was the original version of this. I mean, Alan, you're thinking it's Geico too, that started it. I think you might be right. But what he said was the way storytelling used to be in sort of TV shows and TV dramas, in the past, it would be one storyline throughout the entire hour. But then it changed with the Sopranos. In the Sopranos, there were multiple characters and different character storylines all playing at the same time in the same episode, and they continued from episode to episode. So it was the shift in storytelling that really seemed to help it. And that is what ended up sort of influencing, or maybe it was just sort of post rationalizing what GEICO began to do.
- [12:27]
Alan Snitto
Yeah, I mean, look, I think both of these brands are great examples of the, you know, the positive flip to, you know, the old industry saying that clients get the work they deserve. Right. Which is that you can't do great work without great clients. And I think there's something about these organizations because again, these campaigns, they're old, right? Flow is. Goes back almost 20 years or something. The CFA stuff we'll talk about is 20 years old. So these organizations consistently over time have been willing to try new things, find great work, experiment and put things out there that aren't necessarily easy to buy, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.
- [13:04]
Marika Wiggin
When you have big budgets, I have a higher expectation of the clients to be able to invest in meaningful work. And for me, I think you get to specificity and clarity by not having a singular campaign, having to have multiple unique messages underneath it. And so when they're able to use Dr. Rick. For home. Everything drives towards home, home, home. And so all of a sudden it's, the message stays the same, but the, the how you share that message changes from commercial to commercial. And I think all of a sudden you're actually getting clearer messaging versus having one singular 30 and then four 15s that each have an RTB. So to me, it actually leads to better recall in a way that I think is really effective.
- [13:55]
Host
Yeah, it's, it's interesting, Matt, because if you look at, if you look at what, what many people are sort of preaching these days, and Vanessa, you're. We're all familiar with this. But, but Matt, it's the idea that this work has all of the elements of what we think today is successful marketing. Recurring characters, humor, consistency of message. Well, branded, strong point of share, voice, strong point of view. It's like these, it's like it's the new nirvana.
- [14:26]
Matt Herbert
Do you know what? I was. After spending a bunch of time in the States last year and now here in New York, whenever I put the TV on, watching sport, I'd see Geico pop up and I'd see that gecko running around everywhere. And then as I was coming into this and looking at Progressive and I was watching the. Dr. Rick, don't turn into your parents. With the home, you know, home ownership.
- [14:48]
Host
And insurance, it's the best campaign in the world, man. It's so great. Okay, again, this is a status bar. This is a search bar. Let's know the difference. Okay, social media, it can be overwhelming for a young homeowner turning into their parents.
- [15:01]
Alan Snitto
Now, what does it mean to slide into someone's DMs?
- [15:04]
Host
That sounds like a lot of fun. Okay, we're not ready for that. As a team, we'll get there. It might be a fruit emoji, but that doesn't mean they're talking about fruit. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money. When you bundle home and auto with us. Do you really think we need 47 photos of fun dinner at Pam's?
- [15:21]
Matt Herbert
Yes.
- [15:21]
Host
No.
- [15:22]
Matt Herbert
And you know, someone who's, who's not in the category myself, with insurance, I was going, who are the two brands that come to mind for me? Geico and the Gecko and Progressive and Dr. Rick. And then when we look to see what actually drives consideration to preference here in the US in this category, it's. Do people feel like this brand is for people like me? Do I see myself in this brand? Is this for the people that I surround myself with and So I think when you're looking at a flow or a Dr. Rick or the where the gecko is popping up, it's like there are multiple audiences, there are multiple segments that we've got to go after, but there's an underlying consistency and connection that each of them's taking through. So, yeah, this is, you know, brand building principles in action. And some of the best of it.
- [16:10]
Alan Snitto
I think you look at both these campaigns, There are no RTBs, there's a claim or a benefit in there. There's no reason, there's no rational reason why you should choose this chicken or this insurance. Right. Doesn't mean it's not effective. And that's a great lesson again, in how people relate to work. To Matt's point about, is this a brand for me and does it resonate and does it create an affinity for me? And to keep the brand top of mind and salient for me, the power of those mechanisms versus the very just kind of old school, functional, rational beat you over the head with some, you know, reason why you need to do this.
- [16:50]
Matt Herbert
I mean, and Vanessa, it was, you know, Vanessa was saying, like it's. It's popping up in the results that they're saying, like people want to be entertained and humored and. And these insurance brands are doing better than most across any category.
- [17:02]
Vanessa Chin
So, yeah, I mean, a couple different things. Something that's on the decline that shouldn't be is the use of reoccurring characters or as we call, you know, fluent devices. We have proven through our research that it's 20% more effective in market share, profit gains, all of the right kind of business effects you want from your campaigns by using a reoccurring character. Second to that is using humor. So we know from all the emotional responses that happiness is actually a proven indicator of in market effectiveness. And humor is the number two driver of happiness. And humor is one of those unifying things where we find it unifies audiences experiencing the work, sharing the work. It's an incredible tool. And it makes sense that this category is diving ahead first. And I think it was mentioned before, when did this all start? And I was listening to an interview with Michelle Moscone, and she said that 30 years ago, Geico essentially made a decision to make the flip. And there was no proof, There was no proof that the strategy would work, but they felt passionate about it. They wanted to make this call, and they did. And look what's happened since.
- [18:20]
Alan Snitto
I'm really intrigued, actually, by the rise of the branded character who's a human Right. Because the thing is so interesting about it and where you're so vulnerable. Right. Is increasingly you tie your fortunes to this real life human being. Right? And in an era of where we're learning there's no such thing as wear out and you can run great work forever and the importance of distinctive assets, all of a sudden, these people, they have your fate in their hands, right? And if they go and get canceled tomorrow or they, you know, like Subways, Jared Salary or whatever, you become very vulnerable. And by no means I'm saying it's not a reason to do it, but it's just a fascinating dynamic. I mean, I grew up, remember watching Wendy's commercials with Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's. And then Dave Thomas died. And I feel like Wendy's floundered fears, they didn't know what to do in a world without Dave Thomas. Again, not to say you can or shouldn't do it. It's just a different thing versus the get go or Mr. Clean or the Energizer Bunny or even the Marlboro man, who was a concept. And you could put different actors in there.
- [19:24]
Marika Wiggin
Yes. It's like that's why you've got three. So in case Flo goes off, you know, the wild weekend, you got Jesse.
- [19:32]
Host
Jesse can step in.
- [19:34]
Vanessa Chin
Actually, I was just going to say Jamie in our database. Yeah, yeah, in our database. I looked at, you know, Fergus definitely gave us an exercise because I'm looking at multiple billion dollars of ad spending and ads associated with them. But one of the ones that really popped to the top was Jamie doing a funny skit about. About motorcycle insurance.
- [19:55]
Host
Yeah, he's so.
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Vanessa Chin
And that was what. One of the best of the group. And it's nice because you don't need, you know, they're, they're all wearing their uniform. You look at it and you instantly recognize that it's progressive because they're wearing their, like, white outfits. You know, with the progressive across the. And having those memory structures where you know who it's for kind of eases you into, you know, into the jokes.
- [20:18]
Host
Gotta have a lucky charm when you ride, right?
- [20:20]
Vanessa Chin
Makes you feel safe and protected out there.
- [20:22]
Alan Snitto
That's why I never leave home without a photo of the little ones. Bracelet for my husband.
- [20:27]
Vanessa Chin
Lucky rabbit's foot.
- [20:28]
Alan Snitto
Lucky rabbit named Svoot. It's Swedish. That's a whole rabbit named Svoot.
- [20:36]
Matt Herbert
Well, there's really no need for a lucky charm when you ride. Not when America's number one motorcycle insurance got your back.
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Alan Snitto
We're just gonna ignore the fact that Carl has a rabbit name Svoot.
- [20:47]
Host
Yeah. It feels like Flo is not as present as she used to be. Where now it's sort of Dr. Rick, it's Mara, it's Jaime, she's in, but she's not it anymore.
- [21:02]
Marika Wiggin
It takes a while to build an ensemble cast, I think as well, because you, in the same way that you're building storylines for each of these unique characters, it takes time to build up interest and intrigue around everyone who surrounds Flo to make those, those people feel equally as valuable in the storylines. Yeah. And that just takes time and money.
- [21:23]
Host
It's good to see also Geico, I think Geico started this to that issue that Alan mentioned about wear out met this idea that the GEICO began to reuse some of those characters so they would bring the caveman back in. They would begin to run spots that ran two or three years ago. Because when you're running so many spots with so many campaigns, the issue of wear out and wherein begins to become a factor of can you bring work back from a couple of years ago? And I think you can. I think they're beginning to see that too.
- [21:59]
Vanessa Chin
They just did. So GEICO brought back Maxwell the Pig for March Madness. And when you think about March Madness, it's such a short window. Like it is really difficult to bring a brand new campaign and like warrant that investment. GEICO just brought back Maxwell the Pig and it popped in our database as one of the best performing March Madness ads and it was not new.
- [22:21]
Host
Could switching to GEICO really save you 15% or more on car insurance? Did the little piggy cry? Wee, wee, wee all the way home?
- [22:30]
Matt Herbert
Wheel.
- [22:41]
Marika Wiggin
Max.
- [22:41]
Host
Wait, wait, wait.
- [22:42]
Matt Herbert
Maxwell. Yeah.
- [22:44]
Marika Wiggin
You're home.
- [22:45]
Host
Oh, cool.
- [22:46]
Alan Snitto
Thanks, Mrs. A. Geico. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more.
- [22:51]
Matt Herbert
It's this, it's a whole, a whole tap into nostalgia that's happening right now. And why does nostalgia work? Because it's familiar. And what a brand's trying to do, they're trying to become familiar with their audiences and do that on and over and over and over again. And so what's familiar? Nostalgia often plays into that. And if you can revive or utilize them, then what a great way to do that.
- [23:13]
Host
Yeah, I think it's great idea of.
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Marika Wiggin
Like an LTO commercial where you're only going to get access to one of your favorites from the past that like pops in at one point and if you missed it, you missed it.
- [23:26]
Host
You got to wait till next year.
- [23:28]
Alan Snitto
There are, you know, there are brand artifacts that so many brands have and we recognize this, especially with lines talking about, like, Miller Lite, you know, every once in a while, Miller Lite is going to go back to Miller Time or they're going to go back to taste Great less filling. Because it's just so powerful. And I think we're realizing that it's not just about lines and language, but it's characters and devices and all these sort of things we can equally resurrect and bring back. Because some of these things are just so powerful and they're so deeply embedded in kind of the culture that, yeah, you might not have seen that pig for 10 years or whatever, but right away it's an old friend who's back and it works.
- [24:03]
Host
Yeah.
- [24:04]
Matt Herbert
Hey, how long has. How long has Liberty been using Limu and Doug?
- [24:11]
Host
That feels like four or five years, I think.
- [24:14]
Vanessa Chin
At least. Yeah, at least.
- [24:16]
Host
That's a really great execution, too. Although I still have no idea what only pay for what you need actually means.
- [24:23]
Matt Herbert
Yeah. Because it's one of those that Limu and Doug, which I was looking at. And there's the job for Liberty right now is to continue building trust. When we have a look at the other brands as a brand for people like me or as a brand, I trust some of those really important parts. Liberty, it's, you know, they're making some movements, but it's not quite. And I was just wondering whether the. The characters, the. The distinctive characters that. That Liberty's using, have they worn. Worn in yet? And how long do you. How long do you stick with. How long do you stick with characters to let them wear in? And maybe Marika or Ellen, I don't know if you've had experience trying to bring new characters to market. And how long and how long and how long and what's the impact of that?
- [25:07]
Vanessa Chin
Well, I can jump in and just say we've measured that through our research. Compound creativity. You need at least three years before you start to see the return. And that's. What's. Why are characters and fluent devices on the decline? Because it's really tough in today's world, how decisions are made most in terms of what's going to happen this quarter, next quarter and on to make that commitment, you know, asking any marketer to say, hey, in a creative review, I want you to sign on to this idea for three years and then I'll let you know whether and if they're going to make it. That's really tough. And that's why they fall off and that's why they're not chosen in terms of campaigns that are approved, totally, I think.
- [25:53]
Matt Herbert
And that's a, that's a role for us all to play in facilitating the conversation. Conversation that happens between agency and client. And Marika and Alan said it takes a great client. But I think the more and more that we can bring this out and help the facilitation of, like, it's planned, well, we're going to roll it out and we're going to stick with it because, you know, the proven results are going to be there.
- [26:13]
Host
I think from my memory I might be wrong, but I believe Liberty was the last brand in this, in this group that we've been talking about that actually came to the table with multiple campaigns. And I think Allstate, unless I'm wrong, is Allstate the only one that is on a singular campaign on Mayhem?
- [26:33]
Vanessa Chin
No, they've got multiple.
- [26:34]
Host
Oh, they do have multiple. And what was really interesting to me, because I think Mayhem started out at Leo Burnett, then they moved the business somewhere else. They went in a different direction for a couple of years and then they started to bring Mayhem back in, which I think has been smart. I don't know why. And this is, this is. We're going to talk about this again. When it comes to Chick Fil a abandoning these incredible brand assets for reasons that aren't apparent and then coming back to them, which is a tough thing to see happen. Alan?
- [27:06]
Alan Snitto
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think we all talk about this so much. We sit and breathe and live this stuff every day and we get tired of it and we get impatient and we think, oh, we're seeing all the time. And. But you know, the reality is as rich and everybody says, people don't care, people don't pay attention. You know, the percent of people who are tattooing your brand on them are, are de minimis. And in fact, yeah, this stuff is not top of mind for people. And in fact, you know, I mean, what everything I've seen recently said, yeah, there is no such thing as wear out, really. Like you can run great work forever and it will keep working and then you can build on it. So, yeah, I think we get impatient and we get too close to it and if it, if it ain't broke, right. If, you know, a new CMO comes in, a new agency comes in and nobody just wants to version someone else's work that's not sexy and exciting and you don't, you know, build a career on that. But maybe what's right for the brand.
- [27:57]
Vanessa Chin
And as Marika was saying, this is A, this is a heavy spending category, and there's a lot of nuance to people that are different life cycles. So when you think about Dr. Rick, that's for new homeowners. That's not for all homeowners. That's for new homeowners, you know, and then, you know, obviously the other work can be for different audiences. Or you've got boats and you've got motorcycles and you've got cars and you've got. There's enough spend there to have multiple campaigns building multiple characters, memory structures, et cetera. Because the most important thing is connecting emotionally with your audience, right? Not whether or not you've fit all of it into one box.
- [28:38]
Host
So I think in closing out on Progressive, what I would love to understand longer term is the added value and the incremental value that multiple campaigns bring for a brand and being able to sort of look at the campaign effects and be able to say that, yeah, it's smart to have these three or four, maybe like three campaigns working in parallel. That's what I'm super curious about. I get the entertainment, I get the engagement. I believe that to be true. But the question becomes, do I need three? Am I okay with two? And maybe that begins to get played out over time. We'll have a deeper understanding of that. Anybody got any sort of closing comments on Progressive before we move on?
- [29:25]
Marika Wiggin
I don't know if it's a closing comment, but it is. I'm curious, with all these minds in one space, what industry do you think is going to come next where we move into a shift from where you have that sort of much more serious, Almost like we are dealing in a serious business with serious implications for your life, and then see the plateau of that and then switch to humor. Like, is there, is there, like, burgeoning categories that are maybe like, reaching a maturity level where they no longer need to be talking about fear and now they need to talk about humor?
- [30:01]
Host
I would love to see the automotive category get into that. We've got to get that category to flip. And maybe humor is a part of it. It's, it's, it's, it's void.
- [30:12]
Alan Snitto
That would be my, my answer to Marika's question would be the entire world of B2B. I think that is an entire space that is so ripe or that's living 20 years in the past, and it's right for someone to come in and say, hey, you know what? B2B decision makers are human. There is emotion. They want to be engaged. And knowing nine to nine rule and all this stuff like, hey, there is such an opportunity and so much upside to bring interesting, creative, engaging work that. That maybe it's built on an RTB or a functional benefit. It's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But don't be constrained and limited to it. Which I think is the playbook of so many B2B marketers. Huge opportunity there, I think.
- [30:53]
Host
Yeah. And I think workday and some of the salesforce work is starting to go in that direction, so I would agree to you. I wish it was a broader.
- [31:01]
Matt Herbert
I like your point there, Fergus. About the automotive category, I think one of my favorites is the Fiat. No more gray cars. That was the first time where I watched an auto company do something like that and go, wow, it's not just the car driving through the countryside with the beautiful scenery.
- [31:22]
Vanessa Chin
And the Volkswagen ID Buzz campaign.
- [31:24]
Host
Yeah, that's super great. They've always been good.
- [31:26]
Vanessa Chin
They're really great. In the last six months.
- [31:29]
Host
Yeah, back in the 90s, they were doing brilliant work.
- [31:34]
Matt Herbert
That's the next. The next episode.
- [31:36]
Vanessa Chin
Hey, we just teed it up.
- [31:38]
Host
Okay, so let's go to the next campaign. It is Chick Fil A. Love this shit. I lived down south for a couple of years, worked in an agency in North Carolina in Charlotte. And I remember that's when I began to see this work. It was with the Richards group out of Dallas, which are great. And the Richards group is also behind Motel 6. I'll leave the light on for you. That whole campaign, which was also brilliant. And Tom Beaudet was the character in that. They've worked. They worked with the Richards group up until around 2016. They've been with them for 20 years. And the work then went to McCann in New York, where it dramatically changed, significantly changed. They left the iconic cows behind, and they moved to what I label as the red. The red couch campaign. So a little bit about Chick Fil A that for those who are not familiar with it, they started in 1967. They were the ones who invented the chicken sandwich. Now, they started off in malls. So for the first, you know, 10, 20 years, they were always inside the mall. And if you grew up in the US you can probably remember that they'd be handing out chicken samples. That's the way they marketed. Because they had a captive audience. They never marketed outside of the mall. And so it wasn't until they moved out of the mall that they began to begin to advertise. But they didn't even. They had 500 locations before they even did a brand campaign. Now, for A sense of scale. They are the number three brand in QSA, are behind McDonald's, Starbucks, and then it's Chick Fil A. They sell 70% more product per location than McDonald's does. And but they've only got like 10% of the locations that McDonald's did. They were struggling with how to create differentiation because in the 80s, McDonald's introduced the sandwich. Others came in with chicken sandwiches, but they. And they were struggling with how to deal with it. And what happened was there was this single execution that was created an outdoor out of home. They only ever did out of home. And it was an execution that said don't have a cow. And it showed a chicken sandwich. And the creative director that was on the business was looking at this execution and he was thinking that maybe he had this unique campaign. They then changed it with this completely different look at how their creative would be. And they in essence said, well, what if Chick Fil A was a conspiracy by cows to save themselves? Which was like just phenomenal shit, right? So the work became cows trying to get people to eat more chicken. So they started to do these amazing three dimensional outdoor billboards and they were predominantly outdoor. That began to get massive amounts of buzz. Then it went into review in 2016 and McCann won the business from the rich group and it changed into the Red Couch. Alan, what do we. What did you think? I want to come to Marika because Marika knows this category too. Why don't I start with Marika? Marika, what do you. What have you got? What do you think of the. The Chick Fil A work?
- [35:03]
Marika Wiggin
Yeah, I mean, I think this Chick Fil A work serves a very specific purpose. And I have a lot of conversations with clients who look at Chick Fil A and their current work, which is the Red Couch, and want to talk about experience. What are people going to be experiencing when they walk through the doors? And it could be any service based industry. And I think it is a highly effective piece of communication when it comes to trying to increase frequency. I am already eating at Chick Fil A. What if I were to eat at Chick Fil A one more time? To me it feels like you are inviting, reminding people how great it is to be at Chick Fil A. And so you come additional times versus somebody who is not a fan of Chick Fil A. I doubt the emotional bonds you have with your front desk or front teller are the driving factors for why you choose Chick Fil A. And so that's just outsider looking in. It feels like this is a Frequency play in terms of current customers increasing frequency.
- [36:07]
Host
Alan, what are your thoughts?
- [36:09]
Alan Snitto
Yeah, I mean, look, I think the Red Couch campaign is such a 180. I give them some credit for doing something that just doesn't feel like qsr, right? Like, it feels really distinct and different in the. In the category. And I think it is rooted in a truth of the brand. Right. They actually have a. I would consider a distinctive asset, which is experiential, which is when you go to Chick Fil a, if you say, thank you, the standard response is my pleasure. Right? And that's different. And you don't get that in a lot of qsr. And it says something about, you know, the heritage of this brand, which is southern and gracious and is closed on Sundays and a place that says that. So it feels like they're speaking a truth. And it feels, you know, it's. It's nice. And it makes. I mean, you watch that, you feel good. You have a nice, positive feeling for the brand.
- [37:01]
Vanessa Chin
So I stopped in at Chick Fil.
- [37:02]
Alan Snitto
A for lunch and saw Officer Wilson come in.
- [37:04]
Vanessa Chin
I decided to place a dine in.
- [37:05]
Alan Snitto
Mobile order and have a cookie delivered to him just to show appreciation for.
- [37:09]
Vanessa Chin
His service for our community. A few minutes later, I noticed that Officer Wilson had gotten up and left. And I knew he hadn't gotten his cookie yet.
- [37:15]
Host
I'm headed to my car. I turn around and I see Allie, and she's running after me.
- [37:19]
Vanessa Chin
Mr. Police Officer.
- [37:20]
Marika Wiggin
Mr. Police Officer.
- [37:21]
Host
Usually when someone yells officer, officer, they want to ask me about a ticket they got. I absolutely wanted the cookie. This cookie's delicious.
- [37:30]
Vanessa Chin
My husband is not easy to surprise. We've been married for 11 years. I have not been able to surprise him. One time, I coordinated with Tyler to surprise Matt with the baby reveal at Chick Fil a. I said, yeah, let's do this.
- [37:43]
Marika Wiggin
This will be amazing.
- [37:44]
Vanessa Chin
I bought this onesie. And he's like, I got you covered.
- [37:46]
Alan Snitto
We put it right on the tray for him. Tyler's behind me on my right, filming the whole thing. Wait, no. Oh, my gosh. I was so surprised. Mama Nugget and Papa Nugget.
- [37:58]
Vanessa Chin
That is awesome.
- [38:00]
Alan Snitto
I probably smile a lot more and talk a lot more about the cows. I don't think. I don't think the couch campaign is going to have me talking to my friends. Hey, did you see the latest execution of the couch campaign? Whereas the radical cows might do that.
- [38:14]
Host
Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting is they are now bringing the cows back. This seems to be Matt, a sort of a recurring theme with marketers. And what I've heard about why they changed was that there were like some anti cow people inside of Chick Fil A, meaning they not activists, but they were against that campaign because they didn't feel that that campaign, that the cows campaign could showcase the food enough and they wanted something where they could showcase the food and they felt they were too limited by the cows. What's the data tell us about Chick Fil A?
- [38:59]
Matt Herbert
Chick Fil A has got the highest preference in all QSR in the states.
- [39:04]
Host
Wow.
- [39:04]
Matt Herbert
So more people prefer Chick Fil A than they do McDonald's. And so I think that there is one of the most powerful things around the experience. And I mean, I'm new to this category. I'm also seven years vegan, but I prefer the. The cow advertising. I think that's hilarious.
- [39:22]
Host
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Matt Herbert
But for whatever reason, what Chick Fil a has been doing over the period of time is they have just been drumming in this deep sense of becoming the most preferred QSR brand. And they have a 69% conversion of those who are aware of them to consider them. And then 34% of those who consider Chick Fil A rate them as their most preferred QSR brands. So they are absolutely firing through the funnel of converting people through. They've got an awareness job if that's something that they really wanted to pull the lever on. It's making more people aware. But maybe that goes to some of your points about, you know, the community feel and not having as many locations as McDonald's. But they keep pulling that awareness. They've moved the people to consideration and preference and there are some stellar results for Chick Fil A.
- [40:17]
Host
We'll be right back. Want always on brand metrics that deliver value to stakeholders. This episode is brought to you by Tracksuit, a beautiful, affordable and always on brand tracking tool that helps consumer marketers and agencies answer the question. Is what we're doing working? A not so secret fact is that companies pay $100,000 or more for brand tracking, which is out of the question for many modern brands whose budgets are under pressure. Tracksuit provides enterprise brand tracking without the big price tag. Their in house research experts do the heavy lifting using best in class practices to craft and launch your survey and get you results fast. Tracksuit is fast becoming the common language for marketers and agencies to measure and communicate the value of brand building. Check it out@gotracksuit.com that's Gotraxu. Now back to the show.
- [41:17]
Alan Snitto
I think it's really important to, to the point about the preference, we need to take off our ad people hats and put on our marketer hats because I think a lot of what drives the affinity for this brand is, isn't necessarily the advertising, but it's operations and its experience. They have a much simpler menu than a lot of the big guys. They are much more consistent. They're very focused on giving a hot, fresh, tasty product. So I actually, I don't think I'd ever been to a Chick Fil A so I went to, I think my first Chick Fil A experience yesterday and I, I pre ordered ahead but they didn't start my order until I told them I was there. And that, yes, that meant I had to wait for three or four minutes, but it meant I got it fresh and I got it hot and I got a better product experience. They're able to do what they do really, really well because they have a much simpler menu to execute against. They do have again, you know, the store looks clean and great and it's simple and it's modern. They're, you know, as they've grown so much, they're able to go into good locations and have the right real estate versus legacy locations from some of the other players who've been there for a long, long time. And I think all of that and a gracious, friendly person working the get the, you know, the, the counter on top of great brand building is, is the big picture driver. But there's so much more to, you know, to QSR certainly than just, you know, who's got the good ads driving people around.
- [42:40]
Marika Wiggin
For me, if you hang your hat on experience, that is the number one trigger people will have for your brand. And if you start to falter, whether it's on product quality or on how you hire, that is the first thing that's going to start to feel as though you have this incongruous experience between what's being promised and what's being delivered. Whereas with the cows there was no real promise other than the hilarity of it. So there was no, no standard of expectation being set by that original work.
- [43:10]
Vanessa Chin
From a real people response to the work.
- [43:14]
Host
Well, none of us are real people.
- [43:18]
Vanessa Chin
Exactly. We are not real humans. We are AI bots here.
- [43:22]
Host
No, we're marketing people.
- [43:24]
Vanessa Chin
Yeah, they're sitting on two absolute gold mines. And I was really liking what Marika was saying in terms of different strategies because what the cows really did and the inception of the cows was to compete in the category and to grow this business at scale. What the, you know, what the Couch campaign is doing is essentially, you know, to the point about building the frequency. It is an absolute representation of their hospitality about building that brand love. It's the reason why it's the only QSR where you'll see a consistent line at everything every single drive through because of the frequency of how often people are going. It's. But really, they're both very, very strong. And so in our database of all the ads that we tested, the Cows can eke out and actually win out in terms of, again, humor is that absolute powerhouse in terms of getting that emotional response. And the cows really do that and is the number one driver of emotional response for Chick Fil A. Also, Fergus, to your point, they brought them back and they're even stronger. So it was okay that there was a hiatus. It's like they never left. So they could bring it back more consistently tomorrow, and they would just keep building and building and building. But I will say the Couch campaign just had a different response, which was feeling uplifted and having, you know, all of those kind of like brand love emotional responses. But to Alan's point, how does that then show up, you know, in. At a home? And can you still build that strong emotional response to the work in other mediums with the Couch campaign like the Cows did? I think that that's an open question mark.
- [45:02]
Matt Herbert
I'm off to TRG in Dallas next week with James Herman to catch up with the team. So I can't wait to wait to get deep into the details of where it came from and where it went. So very timely.
- [45:14]
Host
Yeah, it is great. And there's a great book which I had a read through. It's called Covert Cows, which is the book by the then cmo, Steve Robinson. And it gives you the whole background on the campaign. So if you're nuts about this. This brand, like I am, you can check out that book. How is the work rating? What are you seeing, Vanessa?
- [45:39]
Vanessa Chin
Overall, the QSR category is tough. So on average, the category has like a 3.2 average star rating, which we started the conversation talking about insurance. And as much as we were talking about the big dogs doing well, that category has a 1.9 average star rating. So the QSR category is really tough. I mean, obviously you're up against McDonald's and Burger King's and Taco Bell, and otherwise this score is above that. So the number one spot that we rated was in the four star area, and that was a spot called Betrayal with the cows, where essentially the cow, like, lifts Himself up on, like, the window washing, and he's like, kevin, you betrayed me. That is like the number one spot. But right up there is number two is couch. So again, threes, four star rating area. And they really are sitting on two very, very strong ideas.
- [46:30]
Host
So it. So your. Your sense would be that they should go in parallel with both of these campaigns, or if they had to pick one, where does it look like they should go?
- [46:39]
Vanessa Chin
I guess from this is like, Vanessa is like the marketer choosing. I would choose the cows. I do think that it's. When you think about the holistic brand experience and where you need to show up, they actually have a game with the cows. They've got, you know, they've got a heavy YouTube channel presence where they're bringing heavy Christmas storylines. I think there's a lot of extension that you can do with the cows campaign and with humor being a number one driver of emotional response. So I would go with the cows. But I would be remiss not to say that the couch campaign isn't doing something very magical for that frequency that Marika was mentioning.
- [47:19]
Matt Herbert
I mean, if I was chicken. Chick fil a. I mean, the cows are so distinctive and differentiated from any other qsr advertising out there in the category right now. I think the job to be done that we see in the. In the tracksuit data is Chick fil a is sitting at number six in terms of awareness. So more stores, more awareness. They do the best job at driving people right through to preference. And so there's a, you know, there's an awareness play to that brand performance. Awareness is going to do them wonders.
- [47:48]
Marika Wiggin
I think that Chick fil a can take a lot of lessons from progressive and know that if you have multiple jobs to be done, you can use different campaigns to accomplish them. Where if you have are number six at awareness, make awareness driving, work with the cows. And if you are constantly trying to increase the number of times people visit, use the red couch. They don't have to be matching luggage, which is exactly what Alan said at the top of this. And they can still live together. And I will also just say, like, I was so worried. You know, you never meet your heroes. And I was, like, sitting there loving the cows and then bringing them back, I was like, is this gonna. How's it gonna feel? And so I was worried, and I'm stoked that they came back. And I felt the same way where I was like, no, it still has saliency. It's still relevant, and it's still funny. And so this is one of the stories where you're like, I'm really glad they resurrected an original idea.
- [48:44]
Host
Yeah, love it too. It's a great campaign. You can see all of the creative work. It's dominated and I think some of the best work is in that out of home these mischievous cows trying to get us to eat more chicken. Really smart idea. The writer on this and the guy who started this entire thing is David Ring. He was an art director at the time back at the Richards Group. Really phenomenal work. So that is it for episode two of on the Spot with our misfits who've never worked on these brands but have phenomenally informed opinions. So thank you to to Vanessa, to Matt, to Marika and Alan for being a part of the show this month. We'll be back next month with another episode with a new panel of misfits and we will see everyone on the next episode.