On Strategy Showcase

Episode: On the Spot – The Ordinary & Claude AI

Host: Fergus O’Carroll
Guests: Helena Dick (Head of Strategy, Special Group LA), Tom Kenny (Chief Strategy Officer, Courage Toronto), Matt Herbert (Co-founder, Tracksuit), Vanessa Chin (SVP Marketing, System1)
Date: December 2, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into recent marketing strategies in two hot categories: AI tech (specifically Claude by Anthropic vs. ChatGPT) and skincare/beauty (The Ordinary vs. Neutrogena). The panel of strategy experts discusses the contrasting approaches of emerging and established brands and what these say about evolving consumer sentiment, category disruption, and the role of emotion in advertising.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI Advertising: Claude (Anthropic) vs. ChatGPT

Brand Positioning & Emotional Territory

• Claude’s campaign (by Mother London):

  • Distinctively leans into contemporary fears about AI.
  • "There's never been a better time to have a problem" theme—AI reframed as empowerment rather than threat.
    • Memorable Quote:

      "There's never been a better time to have a problem, to be stuck, to be overwhelmed, to be impatient...to not understand, feel insignificant." (Voiceover, 04:17)

  • Is it too esoteric for broad appeal?
    • Tom Kenny:

      "I thought the execution was maybe a shade esoteric. Like...a little artsy...that might be a little bit off-putting to some people before they get to the turn where all of a sudden it gets a lot more optimistic." [05:07]

  • Plays mainly as B2B, targeting enterprise audiences rather than mass consumers.

• ChatGPT’s campaign:

  • Skips AI fear altogether, presenting itself as an everyday, positive, useful tool.
  • "Long scroll at the end" mimics ChatGPT interface for clever brand attribution.
    • Helena Dick:

      "What I love about that is that it's so hard to do brand attribution in tech sometimes...that little piece of branding at the end, I'm so curious, the brand attribution on that one." [16:03]

Creative Choices & Effectiveness

• Music & Montage:
  • Use of MF Doom in Claude’s ad is lauded but argued to cause emotional disconnect.
    • Vanessa Chin:

      "Who are paying attention to executional details, that the music choice and the quick cuts was actually very jarring to the viewer...the executional choices were still keeping you in this space of being a little bit scared." [10:06]

• Importance of Brand Recognition:
  • Claude suffers from low general population awareness, impacting emotional engagement and effectiveness.
    • Vanessa Chin:

      “Brand recognition has a huge impact on your emotional response...Claude, being new, does suffer from low branding.” [08:34]

Metrics & Performance

• ChatGPT:
  • Strong funnel movement: From 28% to 33% trust, and 34% to 37% relevance (among those aware).
  • 50% of AI assistant users have used ChatGPT.
• Claude:
  • 11% awareness among AI assistant users—a challenger still finding its place.
  • Likely stronger with a niche B2B segment.

Matt Herbert:
"They’re showing up and being relevant to a particular segment...‘advanced, unique, premium, sophisticated’." [14:14]

Strategic Takeaways

• AI Campaigns must balance hope vs. fear, clarity vs. creative mystery.
  • Tom Kenny:

    "There are two kind of tracks where on one side there are brands...actively addressing the apprehensions...and on the other, brands that are just...being the solution." [39:32]

  • Vanessa Chin:

    "Try not to sell too hard. Think about real human, emotional stories...avoid the, you know, faster, better, cheaper, etc." [38:30]

2. Beauty/Skincare: The Ordinary vs. Neutrogena

The Ordinary: Minimalist Disruptor

• Brand Ethos:
  • Driven by transparency, straightforward science, and minimalism—not the typical 'all natural' claims.
  • Disavows celebrity endorsements, relying on ingredient honesty and functional differentiation.
    • Helena Dick:

      "It’s one of the few brands you can point to in this space that’s doing it without any celebrity, not one...they’re doing it almost entirely on the values...versus some of your more traditional players, like a Neutrogena." [19:54]

• Creative Execution:
  • Dystopian, almost "1984 Apple" in tone.
  • Website and out-of-home are praised for 'periodic table' theme and scientific clarity.
    • Tom Kenny:

      "The more I read up on the brand and sort of explored the periodic table on the website, the more I thought, wow, this is a really interesting brand." [23:29]

• Disruption with Honesty:
  • Boldly picks a 'villain'—dishonesty in beauty marketing—rather than a generic anti-aging narrative.
    • Host/Fergus:

      "They’re...not about all natural. They’re about being honest about ingredients...It’s just about being honest within a category that they claim is dishonest." [20:45]

• Market Position:
  • Only 25% aided awareness in the US, but strong conversion once tried.
  • Social-first approach makes sense for a high-intent, research-driven category.

Vanessa Chin:
"I think that they're on a journey. They're trying to disrupt. And one of the things that I love about this category...is it isn't just models looking pretty, staring into the ether." [27:54]

Neutrogena: Trusted Legacy with a Modern Reframe

• Campaign Approach:
  • Focuses on nostalgia (& 90s pop culture), ditching typical clinical, fear-based, and celebrity-centered tropes.
    • Uses old TV show ("90210") clips to signal “maybe it's time for retinol”—flipping the anti-aging conversation from shame to self-realization.
      • Helena Dick:

        "Being able to reframe the benefits of anti-aging through the lens of nostalgia...that it’s not gendered in any particular way." [30:04]

  • Dermatologist character provides consistent, humorous brand attribution.
• Executional Performance:
  • 92/100 branding for 90210 ad—a high score indicating strong recognition.
  • Emotional reaction is more complex/bittersweet—not all positive, but memorable.
    • Vanessa Chin:

      "Even though you spend the majority of the spot watching an old show, the branding was a 92 out of 100...but 90210 had some negative emotions tied to it." [34:18]

• Market Status:
  • Industry behemoth, strong preference and usage among 35–44 y/o Americans.
  • Competing in a category being redefined by social-first upstarts.

Matt Herbert:
"Neutrogena is a huge well-known brand, they're still seeing increases when it comes to claim usage and driving preference." [40:55]

Most Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Claude’s messaging:
  • "There's never been a better time to have a problem..." (Claude ad voiceover, 04:17)
• On The Ordinary’s distinctiveness:
  • "They are doing it almost entirely on the values of what they bring into the market versus some of your more traditional players." (Helena Dick, 19:54)
• On emotional advertising in tech:
  • "The power of the emotional product demo, particularly in tech...I'm really excited to see which AI brand is going to crack that emotional product demo to the best effect first." (Helena Dick, 42:21)
• On established vs. challenger brand roles:
  • “Why is it that being super purpose led works better in some categories...whereas in beauty it seems to work well?...Marketing is kind of uniquely poised also to be the solve to those problems.” (Tom Kenny, 21:19)
• On evolutionary category progress:
  • "I love the fact that everyone's playing outside of the normal tropes of the category...purpose, humor, transparency—that's, you know, really turning into really interesting work." (Vanessa Chin, 38:30)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• AI campaign discussion begins: 03:47
• Creative critique of Claude ad: 05:07 – 06:31
• Brand metrics on Claude/AI advertising: 08:34 – 11:10
• ChatGPT brand attribution and performance: 16:03 – 18:55
• Transition to beauty/skincare: 19:00
• The Ordinary’s differentiation: 19:31 – 21:19
• Brand honesty and "villain" strategy: 23:39
• Skincare category performance data: 24:07 – 26:20
• Neutrogena’s nostalgia campaign: 29:03 – 34:18
• Panel wrap-up and key takeaways: 38:30 – 43:02

Conclusions & Panel Takeaways

• Vanessa Chin:
  • AI: Brands need to connect emotionally, go beyond functional benefits, and avoid fear-mongering.
  • Beauty: Disruption is thriving, with brands exploring new territory beyond standard tropes.
• Tom Kenny:
  • Excited by divergence in AI marketing strategies; prefers brands that confidently “be the solution.”
  • Beauty: Purposeful brands like The Ordinary and Dove are carving lucrative, differentiated spaces.
• Matt Herbert:
  • AI: Storytelling, emotional connection, and distinctive positioning now matter as much as features.
  • Skincare: Giant brands can still grow if they adapt strategically, challengers can win by driving consideration.
• Helena Dick:
  • The emotional product demo is key, especially in tech—who will "crack it" first in AI?
  • The Ordinary represents a new breed of value-led, socially-native challenger brands.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a fast-moving exploration of two very different product categories at inflection points—artificial intelligence and beauty—showcasing how old and new brands alike are reimagining their roles, tapping emotion, and deploying new strategies to gain consumer trust and relevance in rapidly changing landscapes.