Loading summary
Transcript110 lines
- [00:00]
A
This week's episode is brought to you by system 1. Are celebrities the secret sauce to ad effectiveness? What about music or brand character? You can predict and improve advertising's commercial impact with System1's test yout ad Platform. Test yout Ad is the creative effectiveness platform that measures consumers emotional responses, predicting the sales and growth impacts of advertising. You can test creative for linear and connected tv, digital, outdoor, audio and print channels from early concepts through to finished film plus access. System One's Test yout Ad Premium platform with more than 150,000 ads in the database, you can get the most accurate view of your category with results and rankings updated daily, so create with confidence. Visit systemonegroup.com to learn more and buy Tracksuit Want Always on brand metrics that deliver value to stakeholders. Tracksuit is a beautiful, affordable and always on brand tracking tool that helps consumer marketers and agencies answer the question is what we're doing working? A not so secret fact is that companies pay $100,000 or more for brand tracking, which is out of the question for many modern brands whose budgets are under pressure. Tracksuit provides enterprise level brand tracking without the big price tag. Their in house research experts do the heavy lifting using best in practices to craft and launch your survey and get you results fast. Check it out@gotracksuit.com that's gotracksuit.com now back to the show. So welcome back to our monthly episode of on the Spot where planners talk about brands they've never worked on but they have opinions because planners always have opinions. So we've brought a lot of opinionated people on the show today. And then of course we always have our conscience sitting there in the form of Vanessa Chen and Matthew Herbert to give us a dose of reality from the peanut gallery. So we can have opinions. But you know, we get sort of, you know, fact checked periodically. So it is great to have Tom Kenny join us and it is fantastic to have Helena Dick from Special Group in Los Angeles who's Head of strategy. Good to have you both. Welcome. Thank you for being here.
- [02:31]
B
Thanks for having us.
- [02:32]
C
It's a good day to talk about AI and skincare.
- [02:35]
A
It is a good day. We picked a couple of brands this month to talk about one because I just love the new Claude work Anthropic. There's a lot going on in artificial intelligence and a lot of brands that are playing in that space and a lot of advertising that's been pushed into the marketplace. So I was excited to talk about that. And we also talked we're going to be talking about the beauty category in the form of two brands. One we've had on the show, which is Neutrogena, and then also the Ordinary, which is work from Uncommon in London. And that's a brand that's done some interesting work and there's sort of polar opposites, which makes it kind of intriguing in a category that's maybe somewhat traditional, but we'll talk about that as we go through. I wanted to start off by talking about Claude and the AI. This is done by Mother in London. We were in London last week and we had a roundtable discussion where we asked them about this work and that show will be coming out the next week or two. But Tom, tell me about what do you kind of see in that space? What's happening, what's intriguing from a brand point of view? Because there's a lot of people trying to jockey for positioning.
- [03:48]
B
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think what's interesting about that space and doing advertising for that space is everybody's got a pretty strong opinion about AI So I think the moment they see something from one of these brands, they're going to be predisposed to either really like it or really dislike it. Like, I showed it to my wife yesterday, the anthropic one, and she works in the AI space. So as soon as it started playing, she was like, oh my God, I love Claude. Like. Like before it even began, she was already like, I'm in.
- [04:18]
D
There's never been a worse time. There's never been a worse. There's never been a better time. A better time to have a problem, to be stuck, to be overwhelmed, to be impatient, to be out of ideas or out of your depth, out of breath. There's never been a better time to have a medical condition. Just look at the research being done. To have no qualifications, no resources, to not understand, feel insignificant.
- [05:07]
B
I think the message for me resonated more than the execution itself. I thought the execution was maybe a shade esoteric. Like, I'll be interested to hear from Vanessa, like, how, how it performed, but like it was a little like. Yeah, I think esoteric is the word. So I don't know if, if some people might find that off putting.
- [05:29]
A
So what, what does esoteric mean?
- [05:33]
B
A little, like a little artsy. If I, if I'm being honest, particularly in that sort of first 20 seconds or so, that might be a little bit off putting to some people before they get to the turn where all of a sudden it gets a lot more sort of optimistic. But the message I think is a great one. I think a lot of people, you know, particularly in our industry, are very sort of skeptical and scared of AI. So coming up and saying, you know, it's not going to replace you, but it's going to empower you is. Is a compelling message. You know, I think it was really well written as well. Like this idea of like there's never been a better time to have a problem is like a great line in and of itself. When I put like my consumer hat on, I worry that particularly sort of the first half of it might be a bit alienating to some folks.
- [06:28]
A
Helena, what do you think? What was your impression?
- [06:31]
C
Well, first off, there's like so much joy in watching something that's been crafted within an inch of its life. That's. Yeah, I mean, the MF Doom selection for a B2B ad, which I think it is a B2B ad and like B2C clothing, it is that.
- [06:47]
A
That's an important distinction here too.
- [06:49]
C
Incredible choice. I am also like deeply obsessed with everything happening in the AI marketing space at the moment because there's huge influx of marketing dollars, new technology that nobody's quite figured out how to market yet. Like it's toothpaste before they figured out it was mint. Minty and mint. Right. I mean, I think about how a couple years back we had the crypto bull. I feel like this is going to be the year. There's a very good chance of it being the AI bowl and this is all the warm up material. And so it's really interesting to see how it all comes together with the, with the cloud spot in particular. I think the other really interesting thing about AI is that it's not necessarily an industry where the sentiment is particularly warm. Like, I've been following the Pew data around this stuff since, you know, we, they initially started tracking it with Americans and I think, you know, two or three years ago it was like 37% of Americans are more concerned than excited about AI. And then they published the most recent stuff in October and it was like 50% of Americans are more worried than they are excited about AI technology. And like normally you'd expect the inverse with tech. Like, as people get more familiar, the fear goes down. But that's not the case here. So that's a really interesting needle to thread for a marketer. And so with the cloud work, for me, where it passed is the empathy test of just understanding what kind of market you're entering in. And being able to reframe AI is not necessarily a problem. But Part of the solution. So smart. And I love that angle and I love how it came together. I am also deeply curious about how it tested new brands.
- [08:29]
A
Right. Why don't we just dive into that? Vanessa, tell us what's happening.
- [08:34]
E
The cloud work low and really what we see in all the work that we tested. So we tested ChatGPT and Meta and Google. And what we're really seeing actually comes down to branding. And, and the Claude work actually has two things that are unfortunately going against it. So brand recognition has a huge impact on your emotional response to the work. So if the branding is low and then you don't get that immediate recognition, it does change the course of how someone emotionally feels about the work. So Claude, being new, at least to the general population, does suffer from low branding. And the other component is when you're presenting someone with a problem, you really need to have spend a lot of time overcoming that and providing someone with hope and a solution. And this work doesn't necessarily release those negative emotions at the end of the work. So that's just something to keep in mind when you're choosing to present the, you know, the public with a, with a problem. You have to give them a very clear, solid solution to it.
- [09:45]
A
What I loved about this work was the fact that it acknowledged the problem, it acknowledged the fear and acknowledged the fact that AI is not a threat, that it can be an amazing opportunity. And for me, I thought that message was like super clear and that that would give ultimately give comfort to people.
- [10:06]
E
Who are paying attention to executional details, that the music choice and the quick cuts was actually very jarring to the viewer. So while the voiceover was trying to communicate the solution, the executional choices were still keeping you in this space of being a little bit scared.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah. And I can imagine that there would be, because I think to Tom's point earlier, it is actually, to Helena's point, it is a B2B execution. So I. It's not, it's not, not surprising that most general pop people wouldn't connect with this. I don't think it's designed for that. It's. It's designed more for the, for the sort of the enterprise buyer or the enterprise user where I think everybody else in the category, Tom, I think, is actually designed towards the everyday user. It's designed towards somebody who has a phone in their hand because everybody else is really kind of serving a different, more of a consumer audience versus the business audience.
- [11:11]
B
Yeah, it's interesting, I mean, when you say, Vanessa, that like, they didn't Quite make the solution clear enough. You know, I guess the folks on this call are pretty sort of invested in the AI space and perhaps the folks that are being targeted by this spot are invested. So there's a bit of a shorthand where like we understand the fear, we understand how AI is intended to sort of, you know, not be the inhibitor or, or the replacer of us, but the enhancer. So perhaps for the audience you don't need to be quite explicit as explicit about the how because there is a bit of a shorthand there. But then when you go to sort of a gen pop target, you need to, you need to be a bit more explicit about it. The spot that this reminds me of is do you folks remember it was for iPad and it was called you'd Verse.
- [12:10]
D
We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race and the human race is filled with passion. Medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.
- [12:40]
B
Which it's actually like one of my favorite spots of all time, which is perhaps a bit of the reason why I didn't love this Claude squat quite as much, is because in my head I was comparing it to like one of my favorite ads, but that one took a similar approach in terms of talking about. It also felt very B2B, talking about how technology can sort of help solve your problems and all of that. But it for me took a bit more of a human approach which, you know, which allowed me to sort of plug into it a bit more easily.
- [13:15]
A
Matt, how does, how do things look from the branch? Of course, Claudes and Anthropic are newish or new brands, so I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they're getting on the radar at all.
- [13:27]
F
Yeah, that's right. So you know, it tracks it. We've been tracking the AI assistant category for the last year or so. Penetration of AI assistants in the US adults 64%. So although there might be some, some fear and some uncertainties, there's also quite a high penetration of adults who are using AI assistance. And that can be any, from Alexa through to the Google products through, you know, ChatGPT and Claude. And I think we'll get into it around the, the Claude and chatgpt and the different approaches that both brands are taking. But looking at the market right now, Claude's sitting at 11% awareness of those who are using AI assistants. So it's still A fraction. They're still in this lower visibility awareness brands. But what I do love about the work that Mother and Claude have come out with is they're showing up and they're being relevant to a particular segment.
- [14:15]
B
Right.
- [14:15]
F
And we're talking about the, you know, the. The verbatims that we're seeing come through are, you know, advanced, unique, premium, sophisticated. And so what I think is great about is it's relevant to the particular segment that they're going after.
- [14:29]
A
Helene, anything you'd add to that?
- [14:31]
C
Well, I just. I think the comparison between ChatGPT and Cloud is so interesting because you've got one that's a challenger and one that's a leader in the category. And I think what's interesting about Claude's work, I'm not super surprised by how it tested. I'm kind of usually pretty skeptical of, like, manifesto montage stuff. But I think what's different about the cloud work is I'd almost call it, like its mission statement advertising. It's a shot across the bow to a very specific segment of folks to set themselves apart from what the leaders in the category, the folks that other people have already heard of are talking about, I think. And I think that works when you are probably going after a more B2B set of, like, how do we get more people to subscribe to us? Is the upgrade to, like a ChatGPT. But then you go to the ChatGPT stuff and by the way, like, two spots, two sets of work done by amazing indie agencies. Like, I love seeing these big AI brands seek out these indie shops to make entrust with, like, the creative messaging around their platforms is just super cool to see every single day.
- [15:38]
B
You know, the usual mom stuff.
- [15:39]
A
All right, so you gonna tell me.
- [15:41]
C
Where we're going now?
- [15:43]
A
Absolutely not.
- [15:44]
B
Why?
- [15:45]
A
Telling you till you stop.
- [15:46]
D
I'm telling my favorite part of the.
- [16:03]
C
ChatGPT work is the long scroll at the end, like, the end credits that come up that mimic the ChatGPT prompt. And what I love about that is that it's so hard to do brand attribution in tech sometimes, particularly, like with new products when you don't have, like, a lot in terms of what to work with, in terms of memorable assets or equities or distinctive pieces. And that little piece of branding at the end, I'm so curious, the brand attribution on that one versus the perplexity work, because I just thought that was so smart.
- [16:36]
A
Yeah, it's really interesting because the ChatGPT work, it takes a completely different direction. It doesn't even acknowledge the fear. It doesn't feel it even needs to acknowledge the threat. It's just presenting itself as an amazing tool that is used by everyday people. So that's the big distinction I find between Claude and everybody else. God, it would be interesting to see the sort of the split between the B2B target and gen pop. And then, and again, as I always bring up when we talk about these, the work that's relatively new is I, I just wonder whether over time as that brand builds and maybe that tone and creative execution style builds some traction, that it begins to become an ownable space that becomes sort of clearer and.
- [17:25]
F
To, and to add to that, that over time, FES, what we're seeing is that over the past 12 months ChatGPT has seen significant increases right throughout the funnel awareness consideration, investigation, preference and usage. You claimed usage of people using AI assistance at 50% for ChatGPT. One in two people have claimed to use or using ChatGPT. Like there's some serious numbers there. And when we then look at the emotional side of it and you know, the emotional storytelling that they've been coming out with, trust has risen from 28% to 33%. So those who are aware of ChatGPT, 33% feel that it's a brand they can trust. And relevance has also increased from 34 to 37%. And so not only has ChatGPT done a great job in terms of building emotion and familiarity, they're increasing perceptions around trust and relevance. And so perhaps going against the negative kind of sentiment or narrative around AI in general when those people who are using AI assistance, I mean, ChatGPT is going in the right way around funnel metrics and perceptions. And so, you know, to be fair, Claude is seeing it at the same rate, just at a much smaller scale. But how about these AI and big tech platforms leaning into some old school brand building fundamentals. The emotion, they're out on TV and it's no longer product features and functionality anymore. So the marketing effectiveness slot, I'm sure we'll all be celebrating.
- [18:56]
E
I personally love the Taft GPT work. I was hooked. Beautiful, beautiful work.
- [19:01]
A
I think we see the same thing when we look at the cosmetics category and the beauty category because the two brands that we're looking at I think have got those equally unique distinctions. So Neutrogena first of all, and then the ordinary. I mean these are two brands, Helena, that are taking polar opposite yet unique styles at the same category norms. What are your, what's some of your thoughts on on that.
- [19:31]
C
Oh, gosh. We'll talk about challengers and leaders. I was picking up Neutrogena Face Wash from cvs, you know, decades ago. Like, that's a brand that's been here for over a hundred years. Then you've got the Ordinary, which is a brand that I'm obsessed with. I think, full disclosure, I am deeply biased towards the Ordinary. I'm a product user.
- [19:52]
F
But why?
- [19:53]
A
Why are you into it?
- [19:54]
C
Well, they're very different. I mean, Neutrogena established skincare brand, been living that category for forever. And, like, they have the challenge of showing up fresh and new in a space where there are so many other entrants doing so many other interesting things, including the Ordinary. What I love about the Ordinary, first of all, brand built on values. It's all about the minimalist in the world of beauty and skin care, which is really interesting. You can see in the packaging, the product strategy. But also they're very committed to being ingredients first and how they market that brand. But the really cool thing I think, about the Ordinary is that it's one of the few brands you can point to in this space that's doing it without any celebrity, not one, like, basically none, so to speak of. They're doing it almost entirely on the values of what they bring into the market versus some of your more traditional players, like a Neutrogena.
- [20:46]
A
I guess for me, when I first saw the spot, I was thinking, okay, this feels like another brand that's talking about all natural, about being authentic and being against chemicals. But that's not what they're about. They are actually. They're not about all natural. They're about being honest about ingredients. And some of those ingredients are chemicals. So it's not the sort of sustainability approach of many others in cosmetics. It's just about being honest within a category that they claim is dishonest. Tom?
- [21:20]
B
Yeah, it's funny, I was thinking on my way into work today about, like, why is it that being super purpose led works better in some categories and a lot less well in other in others, and frankly, like, less well in most others. Whereas in beauty it seems to work well. And I think part of it is why a lot of the challenges and, like, the evils of the beauty category were created by marketing. So, like, marketing is kind of uniquely poised also to be the solve to those problems. Like, when I think of, you know, this great work that the Ordinary is doing, but also, like, you shared some Dove work, and obviously Dove has been doing it for 20 years, you know, they are Tackling perceptions of beauty, which again is like a marketing problem where and the ordinary is tackling, you know, the lies around what some of these words mean. And that again is like a marketing issue. I thought I didn't really know this brand to be honest, prior to, to see this work. So. So for me, like it was an interesting discovery of what seems to be a really cool brand that's doing some really interesting stuff. As far as the work goes. Like, I think I liked the out of Home and the website a lot more than I liked the film for. For similar reasons that I had challenges with that Claude work is like, I felt I found it to be a bit sort of esoteric and alienated.
- [22:47]
A
Dystopian.
- [22:48]
C
Yeah.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah. I kind of feel like the world right now is dystopian enough that like I don't need new sort of sci fi versions of it in my life.
- [23:00]
A
Begin. Poreless.
- [23:10]
C
Pores.
- [23:11]
E
Wrinkle.
- [23:11]
F
Erasing.
- [23:14]
E
Secret fat.
- [23:17]
A
Freezing. Stop freezing.
- [23:19]
F
Internal use.
- [23:23]
C
Precious.
- [23:27]
A
Easy.
- [23:29]
B
The more I read up on the brand and sort of explored the periodic table on the website, the more I thought, wow, this is a really interesting brand. Doing some really interesting stuff.
- [23:40]
A
It felt almost Matt. It felt almost sort of 1984ish Apple's 1984 spot. What's also interesting is something that you guys brought up. It's the idea of a brand picking a villain can be a very interesting strategy for many brands. So how does the ordinary look in terms of data and how that's playing out for them? And is that just. Are you going to be looking to the UK and US or how do you cut that data?
- [24:08]
F
Yeah. So we've gone and pulled the US data again for skincare. Looking at the ordinary Neutrogena crv. I think it's interesting to look at what are the drivers of consideration in a category and like often what comes through driving relevance and driving trust. Okay, we know that those are typically some of the strongest drivers of consideration. However, in the skincare category other drivers like quality, value, effectiveness and confidence. And so I think when you look at the ordinary taking on, you know, the scientific minimalist, you know, also trend driven look at my, you know, my wife's skincare cupboard and I feel like we've got an ordinary shop in our, in our house. I'll be guilty. I've got a few ordinary products as well, but what they are honesty.
- [24:56]
A
Thank you for that honesty.
- [24:57]
F
Thank you. Yeah, the conditioner is, is great actually.
- [25:00]
B
Great.
- [25:03]
F
No, what I think, what I think ordinary is doing you Know, amazingly job is they're being true to the associations of the, the scientific and the truth telling and they are the disruptor, you know, and the challenger in the space. They are sitting at 25 awareness. And so Helena, that's amazing or aided. This is aided awareness, 25%. And so Helena knows the ordinary really well. I know the ordinary really well. Tom's not so familiar and I think that just goes to show when we get out of, you know, the Eco Chamber and into the, you know, the consumer category in the US or in the uk, you know, the job for the ordinary is that, you know, that top of funnel because once people know them and consider them, they've got really strong conversion and then we compare that to, you know, a Neutrogena or, or a CRV who are, you know, incredibly well known and the high 80%, 90%. But again Neutrogena is driving, you know, increases in usage, increases in preference. So although they're in established brands, they are seeing, you know, market share gains from a, from a brand health perspective. So big brand, challenger brands, both of those are leaning into things like effectiveness and quality and value and giving people confidence. So different approaches but different life cycle stages for both these brands.
- [26:20]
A
So let's talk about the executions of Vanessa. They talk about themselves as being science based, science backed ingredients.
- [26:28]
E
Yeah.
- [26:28]
A
By the way, which is where the periodic fable concept sort of comes from.
- [26:34]
E
Yeah. I mean personally I'm also a user, so I know across the board and.
- [26:41]
A
They'Ve only been around since 2016 as a brand. This is interesting.
- [26:45]
E
So it's an incredibly emotional space right now when there's such a heavy conversation about forever chemicals and pfas and how it's tied to infertility and a variety of other cancers and things like that. So to have someone like the ordinary come into the market and say, no, we're going to be upfront, we're going to be honest, we're going to be clear about our ingredients. You know, for me personally I was like hook, line and sinker in terms of the work itself, you know, as Matt was sharing, you know, with the low awareness, the branding is low up against. When I looked at Neutrogena and Cerave and Dove, significantly high branding scores, you know, 75 and above, where this was more like 29, 58. So really low branding. And on top of it you're layering on these negative emotions without being very clear on the positive, you know, elements that the brand is bringing to the table. So but I think that they're On a journey. Right. They're trying to disrupt. And one of the things that I love about this category and looking at all the work is it isn't just models looking pretty, staring into the ether.
- [27:55]
C
Right.
- [27:55]
E
You've got brands trying to use humor, you've got brands using purpose, you've got Ordinary trying to be a disruptor. I mean, kudos to all the creative teams trying to break out of the norm of what we knew the beauty category to be. And I think that Ordinary is on a journey they're trying to disrupt and then let's see what they do next.
- [28:12]
C
I don't think that film's ever supposed to run on broadcast. I mean, maybe it is, but I would be shocked in some ways that they're putting a massive TVC buy behind it. I think the, the brand, like the Ordinary is a brand that was built social first and it was built for this high intent category where people are searching and discussing and debating and like, you have to admire the craft of like, yes, there's the film piece. But I agree with Tom, like the dot com experience is amazing. It's also built for a user that wants that information. And I can also just thinking about the craft, like only imagine the conversations with Estee Lauder lawyers.
- [28:50]
A
I can imagine. Can you just imagine that show about.
- [28:53]
C
Some of the, some of the points they're pushing there? Like that's, that's incredible. And I think it's really amazing to see a brand that is values based like that not get watered down in its approach.
- [29:03]
A
So the Neutrogena brand to, to what Helena mentioned earlier, already massive player. It's everywhere. It's in, it's in so many homes. It's still looking for incremental growth. The challenge it, it has is twofold. Number one, the, the, the beauty category is being built on social. The major brands are struggling to get noticed within social. Secondly, the habit within the category is to be clinical, it's to be sort of fear inducing. It's celebrity led, it's very formulaic. So when they were on the show, they were talking about their struggle, which was finding a unique way to reframe what it is they do in order to grab attention. It needed to be Helena, a social first movement. So that's where the work came from, this sort of idea of nostalgia. What's your reaction to that then? I'll give you a little bit of background into where it all came from.
- [30:05]
C
First of all, any skincare ad that is not a woman staring into a mirror, squinting at her wrinkles I'm on board, like, being able to reframe the benefits of anti aging through the lens of nostalgia. Awesome. I mean, also awesome about that is that it's not gendered in any particular way. Like, it's a conversation about the product of retinol and the benefits that it has through the lens of like just, you know, a reality check that you might be getting on in yours. It might be the time to start using this product. So I really do applaud the team for finding that reframe in a category that has such sort of set tropes about how to talk about some of these benefits.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah, it's interesting because what the planner and the client and the creative director were on the show and what they said was they began to look at sort of social conversations and listen in and they began to hear these sort of references that people would make to things that reminded them how old they are. Like, people would say things like, God damn it, can you believe that show was 15 years ago or 20 years ago? And then they use that as a way to frame this proposition or this brand to say that in the past a wrinkle was the first indication that you were getting older. You might notice a wrinkle. But they were saying that in reality today, that conversation and that self doubt and that observation is happening a lot younger, at a lot younger age. And that what they were thinking was, well, maybe the wrinkle is not the first sign of aging, but it's nostalgic references to times when you were younger that helped you make the conclusion yourself. You didn't need to be told it. You made the conclusion yourself that you were a little older. Maybe it was time for retinol, which is actually a proactive product rather than the reactive products. So that's what led to the. That was sort of the observation that led to, well, maybe we can use cultural references from the 1990s as a way to grab attention through social and then drive it into conversations.
- [32:18]
D
This week on Neutrogena Remembers why.
- [32:20]
B
Donna Martin, are you asking me to marry you? Yes.
- [32:23]
E
David Silver, will you marry me?
- [32:26]
B
I think I will. I love you.
- [32:30]
D
I love you.
- [32:39]
E
If you remember rooting for Donna and David, it may be time to start using Neutrogena retinol regenerating cream with accelerated retinol complex. It can reverse seven years of visible aging. Sorry, this is weird. Take care of that young skin.
- [33:02]
B
I watched the 902-101-first and I was like, oh, this is cool. Like I. I watched 90210 when I was I guess a teenager. And, and I thought it was, it was quite charming. And I think anybody that watched that show back when they were younger will also find it charming. Maybe Vanessa will prove me wrong. But what I was really craving was I thought I was then in for like four more ads that would reference some sort of pop cultural touchstone, like another TV show or a movie or whatever. And then when I got to the other ones that was like the landline and the inflatable chair, those ones resonated a little less well for me. Like I wanted to just do more pop culture stuff because that's a very good point. 902101 landed super well, whereas the other ones, and I know that a certain amount of the cheesiness is obviously like part of the concept, but maybe tipped a little too far into that. And I was wanting like, oh, like let's bring back New Kids on the Block or let's bring back the OC or let's bring like just other pop culture stuff I thought would have been super fun.
- [34:15]
A
Oh, that's an interesting point. Vanessa. How did they score it?
- [34:19]
E
Yeah, well, the thing that surprised me the most is how strong the branding was. So for the 902.0 work, even though you spend the majority of the spot watching an old show, the branding was a 92 out of 100, which is really, really high. And when you use celebrity and you have really high branding on our score system, you'll typically get a strong spike rating which can create kind of like a short term sales L. From a long term brand building perspective, though, 90210 had some negative emotions tied to it, so didn't. So had modest long term brand growth potential. So it didn't necessarily make you feel awesome about the brand. You were kind of having a reaction about, you know, Donna Martin, we talked.
- [35:06]
A
About it in the show when we had them on about the fact that they are a dermatologist endorsed brand. Always have been. But they managed to do it with humor. That dermatologist, who is an actual dermatologist. And I think the twist was that that is the dermatologist of the director of the spot or something like that. Somebody who's involved in the aids. Yeah, it's actually, it's that person's dermatologist, but she's really, she's, she could be a trained actress or a comedian. Her timing was great and she was, she really performed well. So that was bringing that little bit of humor that connected the, the, the brand to that storyline.
- [35:44]
C
I'M curious, like, did the dermatologist drive that brand attribution for Neutrogena? Because they are. They use the dermatologist consistently across, I think everything. Yeah, they do, but they do, like in the most recent Tate McRae stuff.
- [35:57]
A
And even the John Cena work.
- [35:59]
C
And the John Cena works. I'm curious, is the, is the dermatologist a character for Neutrogena? An ownable character.
- [36:05]
E
I think I've got my homework for after this. I'm going to kind of do, do a deep dive. But yeah, distinctive brand acid. Yes. We love a fluent device. So, you know, I think the key here is, you know, where do they go from here and what things do they take with them? You know, I have to imagine it'd be difficult to always license a clip from a TV show moving forward. So what are those things from this that they want to take forward? Obviously they were known in the 90s of, you know, plucking television stars for their campaigns. But, you know, what are those components that you're going to stick with?
- [36:41]
F
Looking at what Neutrogena has been able to do, you know, tracking skincare in the US since March at a national level, preference and usage and claimed usage have gone up. Statistically significant, if we break that down to 35 to 44 year olds, usage has increased 50 at 12 percentage points to 50%. Claimed usage and preference is up 13 percentage points to 35%. So they are big established brands, but they're still making moves down the bottom of the funnel. Claim usage is up, preferences up and it's going, you know, reflecting right at that spot of people that are around in the 90s leaning into nostalgia, you know, that and the rest of the work and the marketing and the brand and the totality of Neutrogena is, is seeing that bottom of the funnel going up and to the right. So, yeah, kudos to, to the brand.
- [37:32]
A
Yeah. And it's BBDO New York who did this work. Is there a number on this that we can talk to Vanessa on the way that the 90210 executed?
- [37:40]
E
Yeah, the 90210 is a 2.9, which is modest, but the average for the skincare category is 1.8 again because that category is deeply entrenched in the culture of models and, you know, the fear of aging and things of that nature. So across the board, seeing Dove and Cerave and Neutrogena come forward with three, four, five star work, I mean, this is some of the best of the best.
- [38:12]
A
Let's wrap up by going around the table and getting your comments. Let's get. I'll go first to Vanessa, then I'll go to Helena, then I'll go to Tom, then I'll go to Matt just for sort of your comments. Overall, are your observations from these two categories in just one or two simple sentences?
- [38:30]
E
Sure. From an AI perspective, there's definitely two stories going on between the brands that are known like Google, and they have that inherent branding incorporated into the work and that instant recognition. They're getting a lot of allowances for that in terms of the performance of the work. What I would challenge anyone working on AI is try not to sell too hard. Think about real human, you know, emotional stories, think about how it plays out in your life and avoid the, you know, faster, better, cheaper, etc. And when it comes to beauty, you know, really, I love the fact that everyone's playing outside of the normal tropes of the category. So the fact that we're trying, purpose, trying humor, trying, you know, transparency, that's, you know, really turning into really interesting work.
- [39:31]
A
Yeah, Tom?
- [39:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think these are both super exciting categories where a lot of great work is happening. When I think of the AI space, it feels to me as though there are two kind of tracks where on one side there are the brands that are sort of actively addressing the apprehensions that a lot of. A lot of people have out there, and on the other side there are the brands that are just sort of skipping right past it and just being the solution, rather than sort of talking about we're not the problem, we're the solution, just we're the solution.
- [40:02]
A
Like Claude is the only one. The Claude is the only one who's sort of addressing that.
- [40:07]
B
Yeah, I suppose so, like. And personally, I gravitate to ones that are just sort of being the solution, particularly the ChatGPT stuff, which I think kind of led the pack amongst sort of the of Gemini and Meta stuff. And then in the beauty space again, I continue to find it intriguing how compelling a lot of this more purposely work is. As fun as I think the Neutrogena work was. I think the work that's being done by the ordinary in Dove is really sort of disruptive and it's going to sort of stand those brands really well in terms of really occupying a distinct space in people's minds.
- [40:51]
A
Yeah, I'll go to Matt, then I'll finish actually with Helena. Matt, if I could go to you, please.
- [40:56]
F
I mean, looking at the AI space, a lot of lessons I think can be taken from all brands around no longer just focus on product features and functionality. This is the importance that you know and strategists and planners talk about all the time. This is the old school brand building. Build familiarity, build emotional connection, what's the storytelling but also do it in a distinctive and differentiated way. Differentiated way. And chat GPT and Claudia at different ends of the spectrum but are going after the, you know, chat GPT. We're for everybody, Claude. We're not for everybody but we are for a special group. So, you know, kudos and some great learnings from there. And then you go over to the, to the skincare category. You got Neutrogena, the most well known brand in skincare in the US and then the Ordinary, both leaning into, you know, effectiveness and trust and relevance. But even though Neutrogena is a huge, you know, a huge well known brand, they're still seeing increases when it comes to claim usage and driving preference. Whereas the Ordinary, they make more people aware of them or they do a fantastic job once you do know about them.
- [41:59]
A
And Helena, to wrap us up, I.
- [42:02]
C
Mean first off, great picks, two super fun categories to talk about. So thank you for that, Fergus. I feel like Vanessa, Kristin are going to form an ordinary fan club.
- [42:13]
E
I'm in.
- [42:17]
A
Matt is also in by the way.
- [42:20]
F
Don't forget me please.
- [42:21]
C
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Matt, please join us in the fan club. You have the conditioner. That's right. I think what also is going to stay with me after this is just the power of like the emotional product demo, particularly in tech. And I think we know that that's always been the secret sauce in tech, like going back to like the Sony balls work with Fallon or you think about the B Chrome browser work or you look at any shot on iPhone spot ever or you think about Spotify like D list. And I'm really excited to see which AI brand is going to crack that emotional product demo to the best effect first. And that's just going to be a really exciting plot to follow I think in the upcoming years.
- [43:02]
A
Thank you to everybody for being here for our planners. To Helena Dick is head of Strategy at Special in la. Tom Kenney is Chief Strategy Officer at Courage in Toronto and was on our panel when we were live in Toronto last year. That was a great one. And Matt Herbert is co founder of Tracksuit. Vanessa Chin, SVP marketing for System One here in Chicago. Thank you all for a great conversation around two topics. Really appreciate it. Thanks a lot guys and have a great week and we'll see everybody on the next episode.