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- [00:00]
A
This new monthly series on the Pulse is brought to you by our friends at Ipsos. Now, as many strategists and probably creatives know, most of the client briefs we get as as agency strategists are, let's say, less than powerful to be kind. And I think it's obviously a challenge and we've talked about it in many episodes that we've, we've actually produced recently and you guys can go check that out. But this problem is also a reason why Ipsos has created what they call Creative Fuel. Creative Fuel is strategy research designed to help clients ensure that the messages in their briefs are something both audiences and agencies can get excited about. With Creative Fuel, marketers can build confidence and buy in around simple, bold strategies that will inspire hopefully audiences and hopefully agencies. So if you want to start fueling your next campaign with strategy that really moves the needle, check out Ipsos Creative Fuel. You can find out more@ipsos.com fuel that's ipsos.com fuel so before we jump into this week's episode, the Power of Humor, I wanted just to share a couple of updates. We are live in Kansas City this Thursday evening, May 28, starting at 5:30 at Barclay OKRP. We're going to be talking about ideas born in the heartland and we have an amazing panel. You can Learn more at onstrategyshowcase.com under the Live Tour tab. We are close to sold out, so please try and get some of those final tickets as quickly as you can. This week our next stop is going to be in Minneapolis, a storied city for creativity. Great shops over the decades have been in Minneapolis. We're going to go there and showcase those agencies. We're going to be at Carmichael lynch on Thursday, June 18 and at around 5:30 you will soon be able to get tickets for that show on our website. Also under the Live Tour tab, we're bringing together great agencies including Cole McVoy, Carmichael Lynch, Cooper Fallon and so many others are going to be a part of this. It's going to be a full community effort for both creatives and for strategists. And I am super excited that we're going to be in that city. I've long been an admirer. We're also, while we're there, going to be recording an episode, which is a new thing we're doing on the Live tour. While we're in markets, we're actually recording episodes, independent episodes, with clients of some of those agencies. For example, we are recording an episode with Maker's Mark the client is coming in and we're going to be recording an episode on their new work, which is a Carmichael lynch client. The work is really cool. It's actually out now and you can check it out probably on YouTube or wherever you get to see your ads. Let's talk about today's episode. I think that's everything I needed to touch on. Oh, no. One thing I wanted to mention was you're going to notice in this episode, if you're watching it on YouTube, that I have a fake background because I had to fly back to Dublin, Ireland, the week that I was recording this episode, and I would not have actual access to the studio. So the background is actually a fake background. It's a kind of a screen grab of our set. So forgive me if I look like an idiot, but I had no choice but to do that. I actually recorded the episode, this episode, while I was in my boyhood bedroom in Dublin, Ireland. So that alone made it sort of funny. So listen back to today's episode, the Power of Humor. I think humor has always been a way to bring people together. It's a way to have a collection to laugh, to bring down barriers between people. But it's also been a way in society to bring attention to taboo issues, issues that are stigmatized. And it's always been incredibly successful at that. And I think if you look back even as far as the 1970s, maybe one of the most classic examples that is talked about when it came to race relations at that time was Archie Bunker and All in the Family. That show did an awful lot to consciously attempt to normalize the issue of race in America at that time. It obviously made a small contribution and those contributions. That issue has still not at all been resolved in this country. But humor was used as a tool to confront people with their biases and their perceptions and their racism. And I think as we look throughout the decades in entertainment and in pop culture, humor has always been a very successful way to do that, regardless of the issue in society, whether it's race and identity, whether it's homophobia, whether it's politics or institutional abuse. Comedians, entertainment shows have always been a great way to address these issues. And using humor as a tool, when we flip that to marketing, it seems that humor has sort of been left on the table as a very powerful tool. Now, humor in advertising has, in my opinion, always been an executional issue. It has not been a strategic issue. I don't think strategists enough are considering humor as a strategic tool. It tends to be a decision that creative makes executionally. So if our goal is attention, if our goal is memorability, if our goal is engagement, then why aren't more of us using humor as a tool? So that is what we're going to be talking about on this month's episode of on the Pulse. My guests are Elisa Zelinsky, SVP of Creative Excellence at ipsos, and Jesse Iskowitz is chief Behavioral Scientist for IPSOS in the US Loved this conversation. I hope you enjoy it. And we'll be doing topics like this every month throughout the year to try and bring a focus onto some of the subtleties in strategy that we can apply in marketing. Enjoy. When you think about it biologically, like, what's happening, and we know that humor releases endorphins, so it has an immediate sort of impact on our mood. I assume as a part of that, it just sort of opens the door for us to be less defensive from either topics that are taboo or messages from commercial marketers. So how is it. What is it about humor that makes it work for us as a device?
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B
Yeah, there's some neurological things that are happening when we hear a joke or end up perceiving something as funny. I think first of all, our prefrontal cortex, this is like the front part of our brain, our most recent to develop, very much responsible for what we pay attention to, how we make decisions. It is scanning the world to look to match patterns. That's kind of how we can drive home while listening to this podcast and get in our driveway safely. Our frontal lobe takes care of a lot of that without our awareness by recognizing those patterns. The first thing that happens with humor is it recognizes that incongruity that's there. Right. So it's something's amiss here. There's something that doesn't seem quite right. And then as that is resolved, our reward system, sort of our brain stem. This really floods our brain with dopamine, which we know from modern neuroscience is really kind of like what gives us that pleasure. It's when that click happens when we get the joke that that immediate release really occurs. And then all of that sort of feeds into our emotional control center that we call the amygdala, which regulates our emotions. And it's funny, you know, to think about how different our reactions to humor can be. Sometimes it's a ha. Sometimes it's a laugh. Sometimes it actually makes us cry. Right. And so the way that that signal is interpreted by our midbrain is really variable and depends a lot on the context that we're in. And I think that the way that we can think about humor in our mind, it's almost like a reward, an intellectual high five for solving the puzzle, for recognizing that there's something a little, and for seeing that it's relatively safe and for understanding that that unsafeness and safeness can occur at the same time.
- [08:54]
C
One of the things about, you talked about the dopamine flood, if you will. One of the things that that does is it brings deeper focus to what you're, what you're seeing, but also builds long term retention. So humor helps you to gain attention for your message, but it also helps with retention of that as well. And that's really, you know, important, important when we're trying to, you know, in advertising, ensure that the brand comes to mind easily in a moment of choice that's happening far after you have seen something. Right. So that's one of the like sort of outcomes of that dopamine reward. The other thing is that when you're laughing, I just read this this morning. This is kind of interesting. It releases this, the hormone oxytocin. And that creates this like emotional bond. So it's the same hormone that's released during like sex, childbirth, all these places where we need those moments of closeness and trust. And so when you're leveraging humor, you're building that trust and emotional connection.
- [09:57]
A
I think that when we, when we look at the way humor is deployed in society over time and we look back to popular entertainment, Jesse, it's always been this, it's always been used as a way to confront us with our own biases. I mean, I think back to I wasn't alive back then, but I think some of the earliest or some of the comedians early on, the Archie Bunkers, all in the Family, these types of shows confronted society with their own biases, forced people to face it. So humor was used as a tool to get us to sort of have us reframe those critical taboo topics. And it was a strategic tool to help us make progress societally towards talking about things that were not talked about at all.
- [10:50]
B
You know, when Dave Chappelle or George Carlin is really thinking about something pretty intense, whether it's institutional racism or political corruption, they're really sort of presenting this violation like what is the taboo in this benign violation, the joke, we're able to confront these issues and talk about them out loud because it brings us closer together to do so. And by making it funny, it's always fun. Not only do you ask an academic for what's Funny. But we can look to the Germans for their sense of humor. They have a phrase called reactance, which is like our resistance to being persuaded when we're laughing. We can't be in that defensive, fight or flight mode. We can't open ourselves up while we're laughing. And that's why, you know, someone like John Oliver can spend 20 minutes, you know, you know, really slicing up the tax code because he has a hamster and a wheel in the background dancing around. And so it enables you to confront those really difficult issues with an open mind.
- [11:56]
A
And it actually is us actually admitting the fact that these are topics or subject matters that people will immediately turn off if you don't deliver them in a way that either reframes. That engages them emotionally in a different way. And we're talking humor today. But it is that recognition that if most of what we are considered to be doing in this category of advertising and marketing is ignored and attention is our goal, we really, really have to have conversations internally within organizations and internally within agencies about the use of humor. Because in my mind, I don't think humor is enough of an issue of strategy in the industry today. It actually is more of an issue of creativity and expression of strategy. Because strategists aren't writing in their briefs. Let's be funny. It's creatives that are deciding that I'm gonna try and express this in a funny way. We need to bring that uphill so that strategists are writing briefs and bringing inspiration that looks at humor as a tool, not just as a vessel.
- [13:11]
C
So I was just watching. We have an ethnography group within ipsos, and they go. And they go into people's homes, and they just watch them and film them all day. And they were showing us this clip. Jesse and I were down in Miami together, and they were showing this clip. This clip of this mom with, like, multiple toddlers, like three or four kids under the age of five. It was insane. And they were showing what her morning was like, getting ready, and it was absolute chaos. Like, I would not be able to handle even being in the room with this woman. And then at the end of the clip, she goes, well, that went pretty well, I think. And we all just died laughing. There's so much. There's so much that's funny when you're just observing and taking note of things. Like, you know, you hear about comics that. That go through their day, and they're just kind of jotting down things that they observed that they found kind of illogical or Unexpected that they have that happened throughout the day or something that they observed about someone on the bus or whatever it might be. And then, you know, at the end of the week, you've got this collection of things, and they'll turn some of those into jokes. So you. Yes, I think it's certainly the role of a strategist or to your point, moving that upstream into the strategy space or being thinking about that. When we're developing these insights, I wonder,
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A
Jesse, is it because humor is seen as a possible distraction to our message that we feel that we can't engage in that sort of behavior of being funny?
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B
Yeah, I think it's somewhere where, you know, our brands come in with a message they want to deliver. Right. And like a belief about the brand or the category or their products or an occasion. And so really understanding where that message can come through, I think is of utmost concern. Right. That's what they're spending a lot of this money for. I think that they don't necessarily see where humor can actually draw attention to that. I loved what you were saying before, Lisa. Absolutely makes it more memorable. And then not only do we have our attitude towards the advertisement itself and our beliefs about that, but that all translates into our beliefs about the brand as well. And it's interesting. I go back to my college days. I lived with a bunch of guys in a house we called Animal House, and they were all kind of smart. We were all kind of nerdy as well. And they're like, you know what? The one thing I have going for me is I have a sense of humor. And that shows people actually a lot of things about me all at once without necessarily me having to tell them. It shows them that I can make connections. It shows them that I'm observant. It shows them that I can laugh at myself. And brands can do that, too. And I think that across the board, where we've seen brands use humor successfully, that they're really able to not only increase that memorability of what it is that they're trying to say, but there's sort of that halo effect that they're able to get for what people think about them as a company and as a brand as well.
- [16:23]
A
You know, it's. It's. It's. I suppose in our world, humor is brand personality. And, you know, unfortunately, I think when brand designers, brand identity designers are framing brand identity wheels and onions and brand personality characteristics and terms, humor is kind of. Because humor is. You can't define it when you put humor in there, because there's such a wide swath of what humor means. Maybe it's just. It's hard to put in there as a brand personality characteristic. Maybe it doesn't feel academic enough or strategic enough, but it is about brand personality in essence. Lisa. It's like when you see a brand that is using humor, it is like with a person, what Jesse's saying. Humor can be more attractive to the opposite sex than looks, I think in some people's views, and I think that we should maybe recognize that more in how we express our brands.
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B
I will not ask my wife that question directly, for
- [17:36]
A
I always, I always say to my daughters, you better marry a geek. That's what I want. I want the geeks, man.
- [17:42]
C
I think, you know, I think probably to your point, Fergus, like saying, oh, our brand is humorous or funny, it's maybe like a little bit too broad, right? Like, there's, there's so many different angles or ways that you can go in on humor. But I will say, you know, I think humor is sort of. It's a, it's a strategic choice. It doesn't necessarily mean it's like a lifelong commitment for how your brand has to show up. So, you know, I think brands can evolve from being funny to being warm or inspirational or even delivering rational messaging as needed. Like, it's not like this is you and this is your personality. It's all that you can ever be. I think that that's one of the common misperceptions that is like, if we go down this route with this campaign, we can never do anything else. And really, like, it just means that if you are, as a brand going to do something more serious, you have a personality that you have to be mindful of. And that's honestly a gift like that people think about your brand in a certain way. Like progressive, for example. Like, they obviously have. Have tons of humorous ads. That's what people know them for. But they deliver really heartfelt type messaging as well and have recently, in terms of, like, some of the stuff that they're doing around, you know, equality and housing and things like that. How they approach that topic, of course, has to be. They have to be mindful of what they're known for, but that's better than coming in and not being known for anything at all. Right? That's something that you can play off of and build off of in a new way and think about how you are evolve, how you show up. So I, I think it's. It's one of those things where, yes, it's, it's maybe becomes part of your personality, but it's not really a bad thing.
- [19:32]
B
Lisa, I love the point you made about just like contributing to the multidimensionality with which consumers can think of brands in that way. And, and I love the way that you started it off, Fergus, with thinking about like, what is that brand personality? Because whether you're competent or rugged or, or sophisticated, there is an element of humor that goes along with that. We often think about people's relationships with brands as well, just how we all have a myriad of relationships in our own life, whether it's our mentor, our spouse, our child, our best friend, or even our enemy. Humor can exist in all of those kinds of relationships as well. And so I like the way that you said it, Lisa. There's a core essence to whom, who brands are in consumers mind, but there's no reason why we can't fill that out with some more of the multidimensionality that we are as people to really drive that interaction with them and to even make that central message that they're giving more authentic.
- [20:37]
C
As far as like, what the, what the data say overall, obviously, you know, employing humor is a great way to break through in a category, right? So especially when something is actually funny. So that might sound very obvious, but that's honestly.
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A
And funny is in the eye of the ear of the beholder, which is another critical factor, right?
- [21:01]
C
Yes.
- [21:01]
A
What's funny to me is not funny to you. Right?
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C
Right, Exactly. So Jesse talked about how humor can kind of bring us together. But like, really, humor sort of sits in between the joke teller and the audience, right in that space between. And a lot of times that space can be very wide. So, you know, your perspective is not really what the audience perspective is. And so if we're really trying to understand is this going to land with the target, are they going to find this funny or risky or inappropriate? You know, Jesse talked about there's that fine balance of like, when something is benign versus when it goes too far. You really have to, you have to test out the joke to understand if it's gonna land. You think about like standup comedians, right? Like they will go and they'll do, they'll test out jokes a lot in like, small clubs and things before they take it to prime time. It's kind of the same idea, right, where you're, you're putting it in front of someone, you know, your, your average audience and, and trying to understand, like, where that line is showing them lots of different iterations of what it could be. And that's a safe space to do that and to experiment. That's what we do in research. And there's a lot more humor that gets killed off in boardrooms than there is in a focus group. So, yeah, I think that that's almost
- [22:19]
A
as if you have to. You almost have to calibrate it because there's humor in. There's something that creates a smile versus something that creates a laugh. And when I look at the way humor is used in most advertising, it seems pretty benign. As you say, Jesse, you're kind of like, huh, that could have been. I mean, if you're thinking about it or overthinking it like we do, you're kind of like, that could have been a lot better. It doesn't. It's almost like it's not trying to offend. And in not offending, it's just becoming sort of unnoticed. Jesse. I mean, it just sort of feels that way. Yeah.
- [23:00]
B
I think that's where understanding where those violations can happen can at least give you the outline of what to think about as you are performing that calibration. So a good friend of mine from graduate school, she's now the vice dean at Wharton Business School, she had a great paper out a couple years ago, and it was all about what drives consumer effects, what actually pisses people off and makes them feel offended. And although there were three pillars that she outlined, I think two are really relevant to humor. The first is what we call a violation of people's values. And so as we think about taboo speech that might be used in one way or another, as we might label certain groups as having, you know, a particular name that may be derogatory or pejorative. Those are obviously things that can both be funny as well as very offensive simultaneously, depending on the audience. Audience that you're speaking with. I think the second area that they outlined, which was really interesting, is what we call violations of our identity. And so it's feeling put down by another person or even having another person co opt my identity. So when you hear like, oh, it's okay, I made that ethnic joke because I'm a member of that community, you do feel a little bit different than if it's made by somebody who's not in that community speaking to the lived experience of something that they know nothing about.
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A
Right.
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B
And so I really think, like, these two areas give us an idea not only of where not to go, but a comedian can sort of thread that needle very, very carefully. But it depends on the audience. As you said, Lisa, like A good friend of mine, he's actually a standup comedian and what he does in a little club is very different than what he's able to do on a cruise ship. And that's very different than on an international cruise ship where the level of comfortable with the English language and with western culture and expectations can be vastly different. So I think you're absolutely right. Like, there's no magic bullet that will say that this joke will be funny and also simultaneously non offensive. But it's really about understanding what audience you're speaking to. And I love the way that you said, at least the joke is between the teller and the audience. And so really understanding what, what that link is very important.
- [25:25]
A
And other times I think you can use humor in a way strategically, in a way where it can achieve things that other strategies cannot. For example, if you're in a category where you have very low differentiation, if it's a crazy busy category, you as a brand don't have a practical reason to believe or some sort of a value proposition. The brand personality through humor can be a way of really breaking through in a category. Same if you're a challenger brand. I mean, you look at Dollar Shave Club. I mean, how they leaned into all on humor. You look at times when you're significantly overspent in your category. I wonder if humor is a way for you to sort of earn above your weight and hit above your weight in terms of recall and as you said, Lisa, attention and retention.
- [26:19]
C
Yeah, we actually see that in our data of like humor overall helps with memory encoding, which is like, does this ad stick in my mind? Right. But when you break it down by like market leaders looking at market leaders that employ humor versus, you know, the long tail within the category, there's a much bigger impact on the memorability of the ad in that long tail when they leverage humor. Which is kind of crazy to think about. Right? Because it's like we're literally just measuring like, do you remember this, the story? And you wouldn't think that it matters what brand it's coming from, but it does. And so it's exactly right. I think humor is definitely a strategic choice for challenger brands.
- [27:02]
A
Yeah, I think, I think. And in low, low attention categories too, Jesse, it's sort of like, I mean, look at Spec Savers in the uk look how they use similar to. It's not edgy humor, but it's. I think it has almost universal appeal in the way they execute, how they do as a Spec Savers brand. They do phenomenally smart, intelligent, Funny.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah. And I think this is again, where the way that humor works in the brain really provides brands with an advantage. You know, as humans, we have something called the need for closure. We want to resolve. Resolve the story at the end of the day. And in the process of that resolution, we become curious and we become engaged. And so as we think about even something as simple as like a Geico commercial, right, where they have something really funny at the beginning of it and then there's that key message at the end. It's like 15 minutes can save you 15%. People are remembering that because they're trying to engage and understand what's happening around them. And the humor really is an unlock towards that. So I loved your examples, Fergus. I think Challenger brands. Absolutely. Low involvement brands. Absolutely. I think even as you look at like some of the latest campaigns that Bud Light is putting out, right. Like with Shane Gillis and Post Malone, you know, they're clearly trying to differentiate that fun time, that bonding kind of boys day together experience in a way that he, without humor, you couldn't do it all. And so it's really interesting to see the ways that it's being deployed not only to capture attention, but also to really transmit meaning in a way that is indescribable or intangible in a lot of ways.
- [28:55]
A
I suppose the opportunity, Lisa, is in categories where humor is not the most opportunity. Maybe in categories where humor is not currently being used. I mean, if you're in the beer category, you're like, yeah, it's in the DNA of that category as sort of a tool. But if you're in B2B or you're in other categories, maybe it's a massively underutilized strategy.
- [29:17]
C
Yeah. I mean, certainly bucking the trend in any category. However, whatever tactic you use to do that is a good way to stand out and to be remembered. So whether that's, you know, if you're in financial services, maybe that's a pretty dry category. Humor is a nice way to stand out there. Especially humor that really lands that category tends to struggle, to struggle to deliver really relevant humor. Even though there's so much good fodder for humor when it comes to money and how we spend money or don't spend it. But other categories, maybe not so much. You think about healthcare, for example, maybe that's one where people, they don't want levity around certain topic. So I do think it, it just sort of depends. It's not necessarily like, oh, my category is not funny. And so I'm going To be the stand up here.
- [30:12]
A
I got to think, though. But to that point, maybe that initial reaction in healthcare, maybe there is a way of introducing an element of humor that's not making fun of people and their illness. I mean, for example, in pharma, it's well used as a tool, but maybe, maybe it's in those categories where we, maybe it's in those categories where we think it's completely inappropriate is where the breakthrough opportunity might be.
- [30:41]
C
Yeah, I mean, we're certainly starting to see that within pharma of, you know, past couple Super Bowls, the Novartis ads they had, the one around breast cancer and, you know, showing all these women with their breasts bouncing and things like that and like that was a big hit. People were, we're fine with that. Same with this year. They kind of showed up again with the tight ends and some, some fun humor there for the men. So I think that it really just depends on the way that you, you approach it and finding that right way to approach it. So it's not to say that like any category is off the table in terms of joking around to your point. And I think if it's unexpected, that's. That, that's what's funny. I think that's what we've been circling around the whole time. Like something that's funny is something you really can't put your finger on. If you can define it, it's probably not funny.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah, you know, it's. It's interesting too, because I love those examples. And, you know, it. It is, you know, harder to think about where could humor show up with something as devastating as, you know, breast cancer can be for, for women. And I think the secret sauce. There is something else that really drives what makes humor work or not work. And it's this idea of inclusivity. You have to be in on the joke.
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A
Yes.
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B
No one likes an inside joke that they're not part of. And I think what was so amazing about those executions is they did so in a way where as a man or a woman, you could relate to that. Right. And you sort of understood the human element of what those people had experienced without having to say it out loud. But it was done in a way that wasn't insulting or putting down. It wasn't done in a way that made some people, people not understand what it was going for. It really was kind of a human experience that we all can kind of relate to. And I think that that is really a key element of humor as well. And whether it's overspending on, you know, what I'm doing, whether it's taking the escalator up to the gym when I go there or whether it's, you know, not eating as healthy as I can. Like, these are all elements we've experienced. Right. And so we. Where can we look at those moments where we might even feel a little bit of shame when we do it? We all feel that. And so it makes it okay and gives us license as marketers to really talk about those things. And I loved how you said it before, Fergus, of like, how has humor enabled us to approach issues that we hadn't spoken about beforehand? And whether it's something, you know, as serious as a health condition? I know in our prior conversation, we mentioned, like, all in the Family and Archie Bunker, like, that caricature of a bigot, like, really helped us understand how those ideas don't make sense. Right. And, like, we really should be a little bit more broad in our thinking. And sure, I felt that way before where I've had a stereotype that has proved to be wrong, and it felt good to learn about that. And so seeing someone else experience that in a funny way taps upon something inside of us that we felt ourself. And I really think that that's one of the core elements of humor, is really making sure that we can include as many people in the joke. If we're going for that mass appeal or if we really are engaging more in that specific kind of violation, we need to make sure that that violation is true for the audience that we're speaking with.
- [34:13]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you think back on some of those comedic voices or you look at some of those really important shows in terms of their impact on society, in terms of topics such as same sex, sex, marriage, homophobia, racism issues, in terms of institutional abuse, we would not be having those conversations as a society if it wasn't for the comedic community introducing them to us as uncomfortable topics in a way that was palatable and allowed us to step back from ourselves and look at it without our inherent bias or inherent prejudice. It began beautifully to normalize those topics. If you look at Labress and Body form with Viva Lava, talking about women's periods and the stigma around these topics that are extraordinarily diffused through marketing and through comedic expression. Wow. I mean, wow. Those are the sort of things that we can be proud of as an industry, and we can't dismiss them as, that's not us. Humor is not us. Humor is everybody. Humor is critical to effectiveness in my mind, if not one of the most important tools.
- [35:32]
C
Fergus, you brought up an interesting question earlier about should humor or being thoughtful about humor be moving upstream into the strategy space? And I totally agree with that. I think we've unpacked a lot of the reasons why humor is a really strategic choice and how audience understanding is really critical to that and observation is critical to that. So I think that that's sort of the role of the strategist in this space. And then as we get into the creative execution, the goal there is really making sure that the humor and the way that the humor is deployed is very much tied to that message that we're trying to deliver. That's the real sweet spot. So, like, a great example of this, I think, is the Raisin Bran super bowl commercial this year. Will Shat. Will Shatner. I don't know. I do not know how many puns they have brought into this campaign. I just saw one the other day that was like, are you having trouble in the bowl? Or something like that?
- [36:36]
A
If that was Vayner, was that VaynerMedia? We'll give him credit for that.
- [36:38]
C
Yeah, the team at Vayner. But yeah, I mean, this is elementary potty humor at its finest. Right. Like, my seven year old loves that ad and, and, and so did adults also. But, you know, all that clever wordplay is really centered around the product benefit. Right. And that that's how the creative brought that to life. And you would think, like, fiber is just like the most boring topic ever, but they found a way to make it entertaining and memorable and really tied to, you know, that moment that is making you laugh is, you know, giving you that dopamine rush. You want that to be where your brand is showing up and the brand's message is showing up.
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A
Yeah. It has to be attributable.
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C
That's way more powerful than a disconnected, funny story with a tagline and a
- [37:26]
A
logo at the end, which leads to that. Great question. I think it's a great point to be made. An important point to be made is we can't evaluate humor's impact based upon a single execution. As it relates to your brand, You've got to stick with it. It has to work over time. So you need to have a commitment to doing it as you do with any campaign message or any strategy. You've got to let it be because it has a cumulative compounding effect. Right.
- [37:57]
C
I got to imagine what Jesse was saying earlier. The further that you can push and go. That's sort of what we're talking about here. Right. Of like when you think about the societal trends and context and humor moving us forward there as a society, it's the same for a brand, right? Like, you have to kind of start somewhere and the audience is going to be willing to let you go a certain bounds within where they see your brand today. And you can continue to push the needle and continue to refine how you show up. So, yeah, you do have to stick with it. You're not going to knock it out of the park the first time.
- [38:32]
A
I can imagine, Jesse, in testing and in looking at human psychology, that if you were to compare a, B something and say, okay, we're going to present this message through a more practical, rational, yet compelling creative expression. And then on B, we're going to do it through a humorous filter that was fine tuned to be on brand, not on brand, but on message. I've got to think that the humorous direction would have a broader level of appeal if it wasn't offending people in the guardrails that you talked about earlier. Would that be a fair assumption to make?
- [39:14]
B
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And it's what our own research here at IPSOS has shown as well, is that when humor is deployed effectively, you really get a lot of that lift in the characteristics that advertisers are looking for when they release this. And I loved what you said before as well, because there's certainly these short term ways that we can look at, you know, is something funny or not and did this move the needle or not? But I appreciate the long term element and the consistency that Brand can bring that message to as well. I think one of the things that we constantly learn from comedians is you have to stick with the bit and that's what makes it funny. You know, going back to kind of classic comedy, you look at Andy Kaufman, right, and his whole shtick was offensive and horrible. And any one instance you're like, that's not funny. When you look at them collectively, you're like, that's actually brilliant. And it's hilarious what he was able to do there. And so I think whether it's, you know, within any one execution, sticking with the bit, or from a longer point of view, understanding where that source or well of humor comes from and going back to it, you don't have to sing the same song every time, but you got to sing from the same hymnal, right? And so I think, like, understanding what that playbook can look like for you and the audiences that you're speaking with really gives you a sustainable competitive advantage when it Comes to advertising and breaking through in a very competitive market where there's a significant sea of sameness that we see among many categories. Categories that we look at.
- [40:51]
C
I mean, I would say I wouldn't think about it as such a binary choice, as, like A versus B. Right. So, like, I think a lot of times where we fall short in humor and advertising is that, you know, the creative team has decided, like, we're gonna. We're just gonna be funny and, like, throw. Throw everything else to the wind and. And, you know, just tell a really funny story that has nothing to do with the brand or what it can deliver for the consumer. The best customer brings those functional messages to life. So it's not one or the other.
- [41:24]
A
Yeah. The issue of talent is. And we'll close on this, the issue of creative talent is pretty critical because not all agencies can do humor well. And when agencies try to do humor well, they try to sell their humor to a client. If a writer isn't a good writer of humor, you just can't be the agency for humor. And so it's very difficult to find creatives that can write well with humor through the lens of humor. And then you have to carry it through to a director who can shoot it well and actors who can perform it well. It's a very, very difficult task. So when we see it done well, there's so many factors there along the whole production line that need to be given credit and the brands who stand behind it. It's not an easy thing to pull off well. And most brands don't do it well. And so I wish we could raise the bar on that.
- [42:16]
C
I was gonna say, I think that the other component of that is that the brand allowing those things to breathe and thrive in the way that they need to, as the other killer, silent killer of all that.
- [42:29]
A
Well, let's leave it there for this month's on the Pulse. It was great having you, Jesse. I know you gotta come back for another one. We have to find another one.
- [42:37]
B
This is so much fun.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah.
- [42:38]
B
I have even more jokes for next time.
- [42:41]
A
And, Lisa, great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. It's Lisa Zelinsky, SVP of IPSOS Creative Excellence, and Jesse Iskowitz is chief behavioral scientist for IPSOS in the US Did I pronounce that right? Jesse?
- [42:56]
B
You did perfect.
- [42:56]
A
All right. Good man. Thank you. Great being back. And we'll be picking another topic, and we'll come back and do this all over again next month. Thanks to everybody listening. And you can see we're going to drop on our website examples of ads that the three of us think are funny. So do go onto the website. You can watch the show there and check out the creative executions. Thanks a lot, everybody. And we'll see everyone on the next episode.