← On Strategy Showcase
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to OnStrategy Showcase. I'm Fergus O' Carroll in Chicago. The FES in the US are now open and accepting entries. The first deadline is October 6th and then the second deadline is October 20th. So if you can't perfect your case study by the 6th of October, you get an extra couple of weeks. That's what I call generosity. I know it's a tough thing to write a great case and it takes an awful lot of time. So I sympathize with those of you who are having minor anxiety attacks about this whole process. But it's worth it when your work is great and when you get the accolades that you deserve that come out of all of this. I also wanted to let you know about the EFFIE Boot Camp. It returns to New York City this October 7th through 10th offering an unparalleled master class in effectiveness for marketers wanting to equip themselves with the skills to create more impactful work. The Bootcamp kicks off with a four day in person workshop exploring the FE framework and you'll solve real marketing challenges, learn directly from industry professionals, apply concepts through hands on work, and build connections with talented peers. The Bootcamp continues as you spend the next eight weeks applying these principles to a relevant challenge within your own business with guidance from an FE Academy mentor. It's designed for high performing marketers with five plus years of experience. 2025 cohort is actually forming now, but spaces are filling quickly. Learn more about the program@effie.org that's effie.org I wanted to talk about today's episode High Dive, an agency that is based here in Chicago has just created an amazing track record with doing super bowl ads and it is not the only work that they do as we'll talk about in this, but it's a great agency, great culture. We've actually done our Christmas show, our holiday ad special at High Dive last year and we're planning to do the second one this coming December. It was a great show last year. The thing I wanted to point out about this episode is that we actually recorded this and discovered afterwards that my video feed was somehow missing or lost or whatever. Something happened, glitched. So we are only unfortunately able to release this as an audio episode. So the downside is that some of the spots that you will hear in the episode are gonna require you to unfortunately go to our website and see them under the episode's webpage. Sorry about that. You'll recognize most of the work that we play in the show because you probably have seen these super bowl spots. They're extremely famous, but if you haven't, go check them. Our website onstrategyshowcase.com where you can normally watch our episodes, but for this one, you'll have to just listen to it. So here's our friends from High Dive. Enjoy. I'm thrilled to have Mark Gross co founder, co chief creative officer at High Dive. Aaron Wong is group strategy director at High Dive and Vanessa Chin, SVP Marketing System 1. So the question is, how did Vanessa get onto this episode? This actually came out of an article that High Dive sent to me about a System One report that talked about one of high dive spots, the. The lay's spot, which is called Little Farmer, how it's become a great example of marketing beyond the bowl, beyond the super bowl itself. So that's. That stirred up a conversation. And since we have a great relationship with Vanessa, she's part of our ongoing show on the spot, we've invited her to come on to have. Have this conversation. So, Mark Hidive. I'm in Chicago. We're actually all in Chicago. Hidive is headquartered in Chicago. You guys just seem to appear out of nowhere. Tell me about that. Those early days. Where did you guys all work together? I'm assuming that you guys all worked together. Chad and others that founded the shop. Where were you and what led to the need for high dive?
- [04:22]
B
Yeah, we were all at ddb. I was at DDB for a long time. So I started. God, this will, this will date me back to when I drove my horse and carriage up to D, but started in 94 there and worked there, you know, how to run for about 21 years. And you know, I had met Megan, worked on Bud Light a little bit. So did Chad. And that's how we crossed paths. And then Chad actually worked for me, you know, as a cd. He'd work on Skittles and some other Mars brands as well. And. And I was looking for a change in my career. At that point. I wanted something different. I was looking for a life change maybe. I went to Colorado, talked to Victors and Spoils. I talked to Mechanism here in Chicago and had a couple of things going. Chad was looking at the time, he was looking at Zambezi in California. And then Chad popped his head, you know, into my office where we had a conversation at one point and said, why don't we do this ourselves? Do you want to start something? And I was crazy enough to go with him. So in 2016, we. We broke off and, and started High Dive with not many accounts at all, to be perfectly honest.
- [05:33]
A
Yeah, I remember that. But they were damn good accounts too. Right.
- [05:37]
B
Well, you know, we. We got a break on Nike Lacrosse through. Through a friend in the industry, and that was one of our. Our first big spots. In addition to Barilla, I had helped pitch the Barilla business at ddb. DDB had split its relationship with Gorill on. I. I called up, I had a relationship with the CMO there, and we started a relationship with Barilla. So it really was Nike and Barilla at the onset. And Megan had joined us. Probably six to nine months later, Megan had left Leo Burnett. At the same time, her and Louis Slotkin were looking to start a consulting company. They had a company called the Elevator Company. And. And Megan said, listen, I know Chad and Mark, I worked with him at db. Love those guys. We should all meet. And that's. That's how it was born. And our very first meeting together was a Jeep meeting. We got ourselves into Jeep, went down and presented some stuff to them. And we. Chattan myself said, we're. We're hapless creatives. We need help. We. We need account people help. Account person help. And so Megan and Louie put together this big presentation together, and we went down and presented that, and the rest was history, where we were off and running.
- [06:50]
A
Yeah, it's pretty great story because you've. You've sort of earned the reputation as being the, you know, America's super bowl agency. I don't know if you sort of accept that as being reality, but you have had amazing success and your reputation has been built in part on that. How do you feel about that reputation beyond just being proud of it, I mean, because it's got to impact the way you think and the way you think you're thought of.
- [07:17]
B
Yeah, it's. It's actually. I mean, it's great. Listen, who. Who wouldn't want that reputation? You know, it's interesting. Well, first of all, it gets us new business, which is great. So after we had our first super bowl success, a lot of people call us up now and are interested in. In partnering for super bowl, so love that. The. On the other side of. It's interesting that some clients actually think we're too big for them and that we only do large spots with stars. And so we get that. We say listen for. For the rest 3, 64 days a year, we're doing banners, we're doing social, we're doing experiential.
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A
Yeah.
- [07:53]
B
You know, you name it. So sometimes it's a little bit of a crutch. Again because people think we only, we only play in the big space. But it's, it's really been a great new business tool for us. We love it. It's. It's the biggest stage, you know, of the year for ads. Everyone wants to see the ads. Like who doesn't want to do well in the game. So it's been spectacular. We love it. We get up for it every single year. It's never boring to us. Every time we compete every year, you know, all hands on deck for super bowl spots in terms of creatives and account and.
- [08:29]
A
But are you, to that point, are you actually competing for a spot or are you assigned to create a spot?
- [08:35]
B
It's both. You know, we talk about this a lot. Myself, Chad and Megan. We wish it was only our assignment, but it probably keeps us honest. But we really have to compete. Know for instance on Rocket Mortgage, even when we were did our very first momoa spot that had success, we competed every year for the, you know, for the following year. So it's, it's always a toss up. I'm trying to think of, you know, MSC had approached us and, and luckily.
- [09:04]
A
This is the cruise line.
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B
The cruise line. We had a. We. The super bowl was part of it. So we won that assignment to do a brand campaign in addition to Super Bowl. So. But it, for the most part, a lot of clients like to put the feelers out and have a lot of agencies compete against it. It's.
- [09:24]
A
So let's talk about the work. Do you, do you think, do you think there is something at the heart of every high dive super bowl spot that makes you. I mean you're, you're producing a lot of them and a lot of them are getting on air. Is there something, is there some sauce to yours? Is there something that's common across them?
- [09:42]
B
Do you feel, you know, I. My theory and probably Chad as well as. And I think what we shoot for is simple storytelling and a very relatable insight that people can emotionally resonate with. I always say to people that don't dwell on the game, I think people a swing way too hard. You know, they think they have to be big and loud and put a celebrity in for no particular reason. And I don't think we do that. I think we start over.
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A
Except for the state farm spot. You did kind of put a big loud celebrity in that one. Yes.
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B
Don't get me wrong. Yes.
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A
Keep you honest. Neighbor.
- [10:25]
B
Neighbor. Yes, I should, I should correct that statement. Celebrities aren't bad. I just think you have to use Them within strong storytelling. And, and, and, and I would say the best spots seem to be not vignette spots or a lot of the ones. If you look at probably the number ones of the ad meter that have done well, there's usually a beginning, a middle and an end. Like there's just classic storytelling, you know, and as humans, I think there was, there's a great TED Talk, actually, I've mentioned it after this. I can send you the link. But this woman talks about how our brains actually light up. They're prone to listen to stories and storytelling. It's a fascinating. And so that's, that's what it is for us. It's, it's, it's a really good insight. Simple, strong storytelling start with a great strategy.
- [11:11]
A
I think a lot of people would say, yeah, we tell stories, but they don't. So what's the definition of a story in terms of. You said it has a beginning, a middle and the end. But what is the alternative to storytelling?
- [11:23]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question how to describe it. I'd have to think of some bad superblogs.
- [11:28]
A
I'm going to say you can jump in too if you have any thoughts on it.
- [11:31]
C
Sure. I mean, yeah, a few things. And just to start, that high dive has two spots in our top 10 hall of Fame of all super bowl spots that, that we've measured. And the two that score the highest are the lay's Little Farmer and the Jeep Groundhog Day spot. And what those two spots really have is not just a story or someone that could claim it, that it's a story. What it includes is what we would call like human connectedness. And that really lights your right brain on fire, it having two characters. Getting to know those characters, whether or not they're animal, human or otherwise, and how they interact with each other through the story, that is what kind of puts you over the top rather than just giving information or sharing things, if you will.
- [12:23]
B
Is that how you.
- [12:24]
A
Go ahead, whomever?
- [12:25]
D
Oh, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, you know, we talk a lot at the beginning and throughout the process of what real people are going to love, not just ad people. Right. Because I think we all love getting the recognition, of course in the industry. But at the end of the day, what really gets us excited is when, you know, your mother in law's friends in Iowa are texting her about, you know, this, the little farmer spot and how it just really resonates with them. And so that type of thing is something that we try to stay honest About. About throughout the process.
- [12:57]
A
Because that's a good point. Because when I saw the Lay Spot, I think it's a fair thing to say that somebody. People would say, is that a Super bowl spot? Because it could be. I mean, it's a brilliant. It's a really, really wonderful spot, but it should be running every week. It didn't feel big and it didn't feel cinematic. It felt very genuine and very real, which is not typically what you see in the super bowl. Right? I mean, market, you guys. What do you think about that? Do you think about it and design a spot for the super bowl, or you just design a great spot that can be something that's reflective of the brand?
- [13:35]
B
That's a great question. I. I feel that we always do think super bowl, right? And. And that's what is. What is a larger story. We try to make that cinematic. You know, we shot it with Tika Watiki. You know, he's a. He's a brilliant filmmaker. But I sometimes, again, whether it appears in super bowl or not, you know, I think the reason why it did so well is, again, I said this before, like, everyone's trying to be loud and in your face and do something to grab attention. And I think sometimes when you speak more quietly, people lean in and. And I think, you know, it's a respit, you know, when you're seeing all this. This, the things going on, you have the game, you have the media. Everyone's trying to be loud with celebs. I think with spots like that come on, if they're done well, like Dog, I think, like, we did well with Lays, people lean in and. And they like those.
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A
Yeah, for sure.
- [14:27]
C
And starting with something that's familiar can be a variety of different things. And starting with something familiar allows the audience to feel comfortable, to feel something. So in the case of Little Farmer Lays, being very connected to real farming families, and that is really baked into the brand DNA and the campaigns that have been running for quite some time, and. And so. And also the branding and the look, you know, the. The packaging context. It allowed the viewer to understand what was happening and then gave them the freedom to feel something. Similarly, with the Jeep work, it isn't about celebrity and that necessarily. It was about a cultural reference. It was the fact that it was happening on Groundhog's Day. There was a recognition of the film and love for the film that then allowed, you know, the viewer to, you know, really go on the journey up G. It's.
- [15:23]
B
It's a great point. I think we did the same with Rocket Momoa. You know, he just was pulling up to his house and like, you know, you know, Momoa. And he walked into his house and started to take off his shoes and just was like, okay, let's. I, I've been here. They related. And then we, boom, we hit him with that big reveal and he took off his muscles. And so it was a really nice surprise. But I agree, it's. It starts with something that, that just resonates in. That's, that's human insight and something they relate to emotionally.
- [15:48]
D
Yeah. And those insights didn't come, you know, just because they were nice stories. They were actually very strategic decisions based on what the brands needed to accomplish. Right. So for Lays, it's a crowded category. We're in a time where people are really feeling the, you know, money crunch and private labels kind of nipping at brand's heels. Right. And so we had to go out there and really prove why lay's was different and special again. And that connection and their relationship with their American farmers really sets us apart and reminds people why this is a special brand and how it is such an American icon. And so, you know, going back to that, really focusing on the provenance, the potato story, making that interesting was more than just like a sweet story. It was really about reminding people why lay's is a superior potato chip. The one.
- [16:44]
A
Do you pretest your work before you produce it? And are you doing that because you guys feel that's part of the high dive way, or are you doing that because the client says, I want to do it?
- [16:57]
D
Yeah, it's a combination. So, you know, some of our clients pre test and some don't, you know, I think we embrace what we can learn from that process. And so, for instance, like, since we've been talking about the little farmer with that one, we were able to learn what are the vignettes that really speak to people? Which ones should we kind of linger on a little bit longer, you know, for other clients? Like, we talked about msc a little bit earlier. That was an European, pretty popular European cruise line that was coming to the US for the first time. We were introducing them. And so this idea of European style and the comforts of America bringing that together and how we can talk about it in the context of let's holiday, like, does that resonate? Do Americans get it? So we were able to kind of use some of those pre testing touch points to hone in on what would be clear, what are the, you know, what type of humor is gonna spike the most and all of those types of things to just make sure, again, like I said, that it's connecting back to real people.
- [18:03]
A
What's your opinion on. On testing Workmark? What do you get out of it as a creative?
- [18:10]
B
You know, I think it should be used more for a gut check and direction rather than the decision maker. And sometimes it really helps. You know, it's interesting for msc, they actually tested some of the jokes we wrote in the spot to see if, like, as Aaron mentioned, whether they were resonating with them.
- [18:31]
A
So this is Drew Barrymore spot and Orlando.
- [18:34]
B
Orlando Bloom. Yep, we'll drop that in. Yeah, it. It depends on the clients. Some. And some clients use it just as a. To get, like I said, a gut check to see is do they like the work? Do they like it over another spot? Again, we talked about this. We do multiple spots. You know, we test multiple spots. So I.
- [18:55]
A
But, you know, God, got sort of an excuse for reducing risk, isn't it? I mean, it's like guts. Like, I can go to the gut. I'm like, come on, gut. Your gut is your gut. You're not looking for your gut. You've already got your gut. Now you're, like, looking to, like, minimize risk versus somebody who's saying, we really dig this concept now. Let's see if there's things about it we need to mold to make it even better. You know what I mean, Mark?
- [19:19]
B
For sure. You know, again, there's something where, like, this didn't sit well with. With the audience and. But I feel like, you know, I always find as a creative and a strategist, everybody arguing, but, like, we're the people, too. We're all smart people at our agency. We're the same ones that would be sitting in focus groups. So usually I like to think that going into testing, we have a pretty good idea what's going to do. Well, what's not. Occasionally, I think you'll be. You'll see a surprise where, oh, you know, there's 80% of the groups that saw this, feel this way, and we have to alter something. But usually if we were betting people, I think we had to put the chips down on the. On the roulette table. If you saw the spots down, I. I think we would be pretty accurate in terms of what.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah. Vanessa, One thing that, That I think is so true is that because there's a lot of cynics in testing, and I'm sort of a little cynical. Not a lot, but a little cynical. Truly. Truly I am. But there is a very Strong case to be made that testing allows great work to be made. It helps you make the case internally for why that great idea should be produced. I mean, what do you. What do you think about that, Vanessa? Because it's not all about. It's not all about. It's not about red light, green light.
- [20:33]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, with my background, I spent time about 15 years on the agency side, Leo Burnett being one of them, and then switching over to the client side. And one of the things that was most important for me in that switch was if we were going to test, it was definitely going to be used to help understand the work, to help make certain decisions or champion the work that we wanted to make, not to kill it. When you think about production and you think about how fast decisions are being made in those last weeks, days, hours before you actually spend a significant amount of money on that production shoot, we want to give you every tool that we can. Can provide you second by second on really, the emotional strength and. And how people are feeling about the work, not whether or not it's, you know, purchase intent or something like that. We really. The work, the best work makes you feel something and reduces neutrality. And that's really where our pre testing comes into play.
- [21:33]
A
Mark, one of the things that we talked about before we. We, as we were preparing for this was I asked you to kind of pick up a couple of spots that other people have done that you really admire. You want to. You want to talk us through one of those? You sent three. I don't know which one you want to go to. I know where I'd go to, but I'm curious where you'd go to, just if you describe it and why. Why it appeals to you.
- [21:55]
B
Yeah, I really liked the Bud Light spot with. Okay, now I'm gonna forget his name. Miles Teller.
- [22:04]
A
Miles Teller and his wife, Kaylee.
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B
And his wife. It wasn't loud. It was a very real moment. It felt like they weren't acting, that the director just rolled film on them. I felt it centered around a Bud Light moment. It wasn't trying too hard, and it just. It had a great song, and it made me feel good. I love the tone, and I loved everything about the spot. And I applauded Bud Light for going there, too. You know, over years, they've tried comedy. They've tried so many things, and I thought it was brave for them to do a spot like that, you know, without having to try to tell giant jokes or anything like that and just roll film on, like, a A really fun moment between, between a couple. So I, I really like that spot especially, you know, and I worked on Bud Light for many years at tdb, so it was a big kudos for me. I know Chad really liked it as well.
- [23:00]
A
And then you also, you also said that you loved the. Which I love to talking with walking the BMW spot. I mean, come on, how brilliant is that?
- [23:09]
B
I, I love that spot. It was, you know, you see so many people. It's, it's. I again, I give them credit because you see so many people do walk in imitations, yet they pulled it off so well. I thought everyone they cast in that did the imitations were so good. You know, like when the guy lets him to his car. I think it was the valet parker. I, I loved everything about that spot. You know, was it the, the, the best for BMW as a brand? I don't know. Did I like the ending? No. That, you know, I felt they try to make a connection to the halftime show with the usher and then you listen, I'm a big usher fan, but to just cut away and then the spot like that, I felt like it didn't have the best ending, but I loved it throughout. The walk in is fantastic. The, it was shot very well, directed well, the acting was great and so I did think that was very entertaining. It stood out for me. Nice ride.
- [24:00]
A
It's the real deal. 100% electric.
- [24:04]
B
It's the real deal.
- [24:08]
A
Yeah.
- [24:10]
B
Thank you. Of course. Enjoy your coffee. Careful, it's hot.
- [24:15]
A
Thanks.
- [24:16]
C
Your dog's so cute.
- [24:18]
B
Ooh. So adorable.
- [24:19]
A
Wow.
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B
Know it's the man makes the cl.
- [24:24]
A
You know. You look nice. Okay, we done? Hello, Mr. Walkin. When does this table work for you? Yeah. Yeah. Did someone say? Yeah. Don't you got somewhere to be?
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B
Yeah.
- [24:44]
A
Oh, there's only one Christopher Walkin and only one ultimate driving machine. The rest are just imitations. So one of the things for me is when I, when I think of a spot like that, or at least when I try to think back to the spots and thinking back could be the next day Vanessa. Or it could be, it could be 30 minutes later. I always love like polling people that I'm watching the super bowl with. And I wait for like two AD breaks and I say, remember that spot about the dog? And who is that spot for? So attribution is like a huge thing. And I'm wondering for that spot for the BMW walk in spot, how did that test? And then I'm going to talk to Aaron about some strategy stuff.
- [25:31]
C
Sure.
- [25:32]
A
I've got it in front of me here, actually.
- [25:34]
C
I think, yeah, I'll be real fast. So in terms of branding, the BMW Spot struggled. It really. Even if you notice at the beginning of the spot, the logo even itself can be a powerful tool in context. On the car, it was a little bit blurred and it was far away. So you. It took almost the entire spot to understand who it was for, and that then loses most people. So it scored a 3.6, which is above average. And I really say that that's a testament to the creative idea, the fact that it survived and got a 3.6 with. With limited branding, but where you get into the height, some of the high dive work with like a 5, you know, 5.9, 5.2. You really need really strong branding to elicit those stronger emotional reactions and that's it.
- [26:19]
A
Is that solved by increased exposure, though? I mean, if I see that spot a week later and a week later and that that sort of recognition builds, does that solve the. The 3.6 and turn it ultimately into a 5, you know what I mean? To a degree.
- [26:36]
C
You know, not necessarily. If you didn't get it the first time, it doesn't mean you're going to get it the second time because you're kind of turning off at the beginning.
- [26:45]
A
So, Mark, are you conscious when you're producing a spot or you're getting. Trying to develop a concept? Are you conscious of branding and how do you look at a spot to ensure that we're going to come away with a brand impression, that there's going to be that connection made?
- [27:01]
B
Yeah, I can go first, then Aaron, you could jump in if you want, but it's making the brand the center of the story is paramount. I mean, I feel like. It's funny, I've been in the situation before with many clients where sometimes they think just throwing logos into a spot and their brand colors will increase branding. And I've seen it not work. We've tried it. And I always feel it's, it's. Is the brand integral and at the center of the story, you know, and are you telling a great story and therefore people and I don't know. Vanessa, you can maybe back me up with some information. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not, but I feel sometimes it's like in Lays, we just said we didn't have a lot of product in there. We told a whole potato story and put the lay's bag at the end of the spot. And yet I think it got great branding scores.
- [27:50]
C
It did.
- [27:52]
B
There you go. People Were engaged in the story and wanted to pay attention. And I think, therefore, they paid attention to the branding.
- [27:58]
A
And that was a 5.9. I mean, that's like you broke the scale.
- [28:03]
C
It doesn't go higher. It doesn't go higher than 5.9. For the record. That really is a testament to knowing what your distinctive assets are, but also knowing what things you are consistent with. And so we study consistency, and it could be your positioning, it could be the campaign construct, it could be, you know, the way that it's filmed. There is a lot of different avenues to create consistency and to create that recognition. And an absolute does not need to be a logo or a watermark.
- [28:34]
A
So fluency that was 92 out of 100, Mark.
- [28:37]
D
Yeah, I think we were intentional about where we put the bag when people were eating chips, like, kind of making sure to see it, even if. And make it feel natural to the story.
- [28:46]
A
What is the role of strategy for you as an agency that, you know, through the lens of super bowl ads, what do you want from them and what's the value that strategy begins because Deliverance. Because there's some agencies that are almost dismissing the value of strategy as heinous as that is.
- [29:05]
B
You know, first and foremost, we want clarity. Like, when I say clarity is kindness, but it's. It's clarity. I. I find that the most frustrating thing, you know, as a creative, and it's been that way for years, of like, tell us the simple thing you want to say and we'll come up with a clever way to say it. And the nice thing about lays, for example, now that we're talking about it, they were very clear. It was a clear business problem and. And what to communicate. Oddly enough, there were some statistics that say that. That people in the U.S. a lot of people don't know.
- [29:40]
D
I think 60% of people didn't think that lays were made from real potatoes.
- [29:45]
A
Interesting. I was wondering if there was something like that, because you're talking about real. You're leaning into the real. Real potatoes.
- [29:53]
B
Yeah.
- [29:54]
C
You're like, let's dig it out of the dirt.
- [29:56]
D
We'll show you a potato.
- [30:00]
A
A live cam on Gross both.
- [30:02]
B
We'll put potatoes on the screen for 55 seconds. And then the other is, you know, really a value play. A lot of consumers were trading down to some, not a lot, but losing a little bit of sales to people trading down to less expensive brands. And so, you know, that was really what we were trying to hit head on, is that these are real potatoes. Often they're not often, but they go from 48 hours from. From farm to bag. And that it's. It's the good old lays that you know and love that's been made the same way for the years we even started the company. And it's a better tasting more a better quality chip that you, you should pay a little bit more for if you go to the store, you know. And also, they knew when the client had said to us, I, I don't think they were going for comedy in this particular situation. I think they wanted to tell an authentic story. So we knew to stay away from being funny. Haha. And that really helped narrow down what kind of story we wanted to tell. And. Yeah, but we always narrow it down. We start with God. I've shown. I think when we presented to Rocket back in the day, I might have presented 12 spots to them for our meeting. And, and you know, we, we always do that sometimes too, for competing. We want to cover our bases and make sure that we're the. It's a shotgun approach. But I mean, we really believe that here at High Dye, we say that, you know, I don't want to bring anything to meeting, that if it's sold, you'd be mad that it. That it sold. So. But yeah, we looked, we looked at a ton of ideas tonally. We didn't want to be super jokey and we knew we wanted to tell this authentic story and that narrowed everything down for us. And we came up with this little story about this girl who rose this potato. If I was a flower growing wild and free All I want is you to be my sweet honeybee and if I was a tree grown tall and green All I want is you to.
- [32:10]
A
Shade me be my leave. I would love to talk Mark about Groundhog Day for a minute because, you know, a lot of times in the show we'll hear that a creative will say, yeah, that came to me in the shower. And I can imagine that Groundhog Day, that, that came to somebody in the shower because it's one of those things where you see this cultural reference that you're like, holy. That just came to somebody in a moment. And I'm wondering where, where did that come from? And what was the brief from Jeep?
- [32:41]
B
Yeah, you know, I, I have to credit Olivier, who is the cmo and, and he had had a previous relationship, I think, with Bill Murray. Murray, or he knew he had a way of getting in contact with Bill Murray. But during one of the meetings, I believe Olivier had mentioned that. Did you know Groundhog Day is On Super Bowl Day. And that really kicked us off. And then, you know, we, I, I think he, we had had the conversation with him in the room that, that Groundhog Day, you know, was such a great movie with Bill Murray. And he said, I have a connection to Bill Murray. And Olivier reached out to see if he was interested. And then we were off and running, you know, and we kind of almost co wrote this with, with Olivier. He was part of the process, but that's what it was. And then we put that together. You know, we got the. It was funny. Chad did the original call for me, hung up with Bill and called me because I just got off the. I just got off the phone with Bill Murray. He was on the golf course. I couldn't hear him. The wind was.
- [33:47]
A
He was on a golf course. I love this.
- [33:50]
B
Exactly. They think Bill Murray and, and we didn't know he'd be interested. And like, Monday, he, he called Chad back and was like, we doing this. You know, it's just. That's how Bill is. You know, he was. He was all in it. He wanted to do it. He knew there was value in it. He loved the idea from the get go, and he was in. So it, it really was that. It was. It was almost wrote itself in that, you know, and also it was very important. We were trying to launch the Gladiator to, To a huge audience, and it just seemed to be a perfect fit. We said, okay, Olivier told us, Groundhog Day. Let's ride a spot. Bill's interested. Perfect time for Gladiator. Okay, campers, rise and shine.
- [34:31]
A
It's Groundhog Day. Phil. Hey, Phil. No, not you. It's me, Ned Ryerson.
- [34:43]
B
Okay, little fellas. Good job. That's different. Good job.
- [34:49]
A
Hey.
- [34:51]
C
He got the groundhog.
- [34:54]
D
Yeah, I was going to say with that one, too. You know, we talk a lot. We talked earlier about, you know, keeping the brand and the product at the center of the story. So while it was inspired by Groundhog Day and it was such a great cultural alignment, it was really about thinking, like, why Jeep? Why now we have this brand new truck that's launching. People don't tend to think of Jeep and trucks together. And really what it was all about, the role of the gladiator and the Jeep portfolio is fun, right? And so there's no day that's the same with the Jeep Gladiator. And so it kind of, you know.
- [35:29]
A
Is that a line from a client or was that interbreeding?
- [35:32]
D
That was part of the strategic intent. Right. And so, like, as we're thinking about the, how we're going to incorporate the, the car into the spot. You know, we're kind of turning Groundhog Day on its head where, you know, now Bill Murray is looking forward to every new day because he's having so much fun in the Gladiator.
- [35:50]
A
Yeah, I watched the spot this morning. I even picked up stuff I missed the first times I'd seen it. Is as I continue to watch. And I want to ask you about Agent State Farm, which was your spot from 2024 with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Again to the. Where did that come from? Because it was really was sort of a fun idea that's like, does that come in the shower?
- [36:12]
B
You know, a team. It was, it's, it's easiest sometimes. You know, someone sat down. I think the team was like neighbor. You know, it's funny when, when Arnold Schwarzenegger says neighbor and like we gotta build a spot around this.
- [36:24]
D
And the objective of that brief was all around, you know, how do we make the jingle famous again? You know, like a good neighbor state farmers there, we all know it. How do we put it back into culture? And so, you know, we of course explored lots of ways where you're going singing the jingle, all, you know, really fun concepts around that. But how do you make it sticky? You know, what better way than someone who maybe doesn't say it the way that you're used to hearing it?
- [36:55]
A
Is that because the, the client had been doing that sort of, you know, like a good neighbor State Farm is there and somebody appeared. Is it because it doesn't seem like it's a business problem to be solved. I would have thought that's already ubiquitous in cult.
- [37:07]
D
No, I mean, I think they had kind of gone away from that campaign for a while, but it's, it was just reintroducing and giving some space to that distinct asset again.
- [37:19]
A
So one thing, Mark. I'll say. Go ahead, Vanessa.
- [37:22]
C
Oh, I was just gonna say, you know, often in our testing we talk about like the long term brand growth potential. But I will say that particular spot, the use of celebrity gets you really intense intention and an intense emotional response. And paired with really, really strong branding in that work and fast branding, we would predict that it would have really strong short term sales lift. So I hope that that was the case.
- [37:46]
B
Yeah.
- [37:46]
A
So Mark, I'm, I'm thinking you said earlier that you put a bunch of stuff in, you had a bunch of ideas. Were you in the meeting when the client said that's the one we want and tell us why they Picked that one.
- [37:57]
B
Yep. I was not in that meeting because Chad and I, as busy as we get, tend to split. We oversee some things together and some things we divide and conquer because I was busy doing what was that year. I think I had another super bowl spot I was working on, so was not in that meeting. But, you know, I could tell you, I think they just, they, it was hard not to like, you know, Schwarzenegger doing neighbor. I think Arnold was having Brilliant, sir.
- [38:25]
A
Wonderful.
- [38:26]
B
Yeah. I think he was having a resurgence with his Netflix show coming back. And, and he just is always in the cultural zeitgeist. Even younger fans who you don't think would know Arnold still do, and he's so popular that they, they just, they couldn't pass up on it. And the first thing you do, obviously, is reach out to the celebrity and see whether they're interested at all, because we, we've had our, our hearts broken by some celebrities that aren't interested.
- [38:52]
A
I can imagine that. I can imagine it was kind of like the, the WhatsApp stuff that was done in the past. And you're like, once you, I can imagine hearing that from a creative just goofing off after lunch and they just say it and you like, holy. That's it.
- [39:05]
B
Yeah. You know, sometimes you just know it. I, I love to see the visceral reaction sometimes when I'm presenting to clients at super bowl spots. A perfect example is, you know, we brought in with the Tracy Morgan rocket spot. We, we tested number one on that as well, and it was the difference between pretty sure and certain. I loved the script when I saw it. I, I loved it when we presented, we presented it like number one in the meeting to the client. It's what they chose. And so sometimes you're not sure going in. But I, I, it was such a keen, interesting insight. It was, it was so funny to me on paper. I was so excited to present to the client. That's what they wound up picking, and it wound up doing number one of the game. So sometimes, you know, you know, you bring in 10 things, but you're like, we love these three. We love these four. Hopefully they'll buy that. So again, like we talked about before, there's instinctually, I think you, you know, some of the, some of the better ones. And like I said, you're right. You know, they were saying neighbor in the meeting. Everyone leaves the meeting saying neighbor, neighbor.
- [40:11]
D
Thank you, agent State Farm.
- [40:13]
A
Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Cut. Hey, Arnold, I'm hearing neighbor. It's neighborhood that's what I said. Neighbor, neighbor, neighbor. Let's go again. Like a good neighbor. State farm is there, cut.
- [40:33]
B
Now what it's neighbor, neighbor, cut, neighbor.
- [40:38]
A
Yeah, neighbor. Just like it's written in a paper. One last thing to talk about for the next two minutes, we've got two minutes left is to talk about beyond the ball. Right. Which is the reason we ended up doing this is I'm curious strategically, and you've touched on this, both of you today, is the idea that you gotta think beyond the ball. And I don't just mean beyond the bowl into social, I mean beyond the bowl that this stuff still is vital, usable, three, four, six months down the road that you can get more out of a spot. Mark, are you, when you're developing the work, is that part of your mandate that you're thinking this has to work outside of the bowl so we can't do things that are too rooted in football?
- [41:24]
B
Yes, and yes. You know, unless the client is fine with spending that money and saying we're one and done and we want to do our own football. But we always stay away from that because you can't use it after. But I mean, Aaron can speak to the360 that went on for, for Arnold and we go to present the spots we have. There's, there's 10 pages or more beyond the spot itself and what they want to do after the game, PR partners. And, and so, you know, we launched that with Arnold going on Jimmy Fallon show and faking that he had a, A what you call trailer. Yeah. Turned out to be the spot. So. Yes. And then sometimes we literally shoot content and create more spots. So again, I'll bring up Tracy Morgan for Rocket. We shot it purposely to be. It was a vignette spot. And so we got a ton of content and we cut, got I think two extra 30s or three extra 30s out of the content we captured on super bowl and continued. They ran those for six months beyond that. So that was almost their campaign for the rest of the year. So it's, it's something we think, think about, yes. Going into it and it's interest. It's too costly for a client not to take advantage of it and, and spend all that money and not be able to use it.
- [42:37]
A
I suppose the client has to be, has to be conscious of that because if, if a lot of these pitches for Super Bowls are assignment oriented, could be one offs. I think you're probably always as an agency thinking, well this could lead to a longer term relationship. But the other side of that coin is that the result for the industry is there's a lot of people just producing great spots to get on the super bowl because I think clients want that, but it's not necessarily good for the brand. I mean, Vanessa, you probably have a point of view on that too, but I worry that that's probably a risk when we don't have AORs or at least the promise of an idea that can go beyond one day. One huge day. Of course.
- [43:15]
D
Yeah.
- [43:16]
C
Two quick thoughts on that. One is, I will say if you do have the dollars, having something football or sports related actually does outpace the average during Super Bowl. But on the flip side, one of the things that's really important, I know you mentioned not just social, but with social media you can very authentically use spaces like TikTok to extend your campaign. You know, I often say that it's a little bit poo pooed, like, oh, you know, I don't want the brand work, you know, in my TikTok. I want to do something brand native. And actually Lays is a perfect example of you can use your campaign in that space and you can, you know, essentially really entertain your audience and be really strong creatively in that space. Don't shy away from it.
- [44:03]
B
It.
- [44:04]
D
Yeah, that's something that we do try to think about like as far as how do we extend our storytelling? Just if it starts out as an entertaining piece of content, obviously we can adapt that into other, you know, channels and, and also do it in a way that can feel native. But also if it's a great piece of content, people are going to want to watch it as well. So that can live on. But you know, there's a couple other things that we think about when we go into it because obviously it's such a huge investment for everyone involved and so we think about it from a long term brand building perspective always. So it's a cultural moment on the day of. But can we kind of infiltrate culture beyond that with the Schwarzenegger spot and that kind of the whole PR blitz around it and the strategy there was so fun to just really treat it as a movie premiere and think about all of the surround sound differently so, you know, we can think about different ways at promoting the spot itself.
- [45:10]
A
So Mark, you probably know what you're actually doing for the super bowl, right? We're not. So what can you, what can you. And what, what can we end with about what you're going to do for next year? Do you. You don't have to tell us details obviously, but do you know, do you already have a bunch of SB briefs?
- [45:28]
B
We have a brief already. We are contacted by another client. Client who's interested. So an RFI went out, but we have not started working on it. But we have started working on it with, with one of our clients. Yes, they. They start this early. Yeah. I, I will say though, Groundhog was shot one week before the Super Bowl. I'm not kidding.
- [45:50]
D
Oh my God.
- [45:51]
B
Saturday, Sunday. And the editor came to the shoot, had a hotel room and we he load the film in and edit it Monday and Tuesday night. And that aired Sunday. So that's the fastest we've ever. So sometimes that happens. I had, I had an old, you know, my old client, Franheiser Busch. They, we did a pocket package of spots. He loved the one spot so much, he aired the rest during football season and held that one until Super Bowl. So that happens too. So it's. The timelines are always all over the place, but the good ones prepare early.
- [46:22]
A
I love it. I love it. It's Mark Gross, co founder and co chief creative officer for High Dive in Chicago. It's Aaron Wong, group strategy director at High dive. Vanessa Chin, SVP Marketing System 1 here in the US Chicago is represented really good on this episode.
- [46:38]
B
So I love it.
- [46:39]
A
The work is great. And I believe we're going to be back at High Dive this December for our holiday ad special. Man, it was fun doing that last year. So Mark, I think you need to get on stage this year so you and Chad can fight about it.
- [46:56]
B
Yes.
- [46:57]
A
Thanks guys. And we appreciate you guys taking time today and we'll see everyone on the next episode.