An FCC Commissioner Sounds the Alarm. Plus, the Finale of The Divided Dial

Summary

On the Media: An FCC Commissioner Sounds the Alarm. Plus, the Finale of The Divided Dial

Released on May 30, 2025 by WNYC Studios

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Introduction

In this episode of the Peabody Award-winning podcast On the Media, hosts Michael Olinger and Brooke Gladstone delve into two significant topics. First, they feature an in-depth conversation with Anna M. Gomez, the lone Democratic commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), who raises concerns about threats to free speech and government transparency. Second, they present the finale of their special series, The Divided Dial, which explores the evolving landscape of shortwave radio and the clash between pirate broadcasters and financial profiteers.

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FCC Commissioner Anna M. Gomez on Media Freedom

FAA's Retaliatory Actions Against Public Broadcasters

Michael Olinger introduces the segment by highlighting a recent event where NPR and three Colorado Public Radio stations filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration for retaliatory actions. The administration, under President Trump, accused these organizations of bias and sought to defund them, alleging they used taxpayer funds to spread "radical woke propaganda" [02:37].

Anna M. Gomez's Critique of FCC Practices

Anna M. Gomez, the sole Democratic commissioner at the FCC, articulates her alarm over the agency's recent actions. She states, "It's not our agency's function to prosecute diversity, equity, and inclusion. And what alarms me about it is that capitulation breeds capitulation" [00:59].

She elaborates on how the FCC staff is overstepping by investigating broadcasters' editorial decisions and threatening tech companies that fact-check, all without commissioner votes. Gomez emphasizes that major decisions, such as approving Verizon's $20 billion merger contingent on ending DEI practices, should occur at the commission level, not relegated to staff actions [04:15].

Threats to the First Amendment and Press Freedom

Gomez highlights specific cases where the FCC is probing local broadcasters for alleged "news distortion." She points out that these investigations often lack substantial evidence of intentional distortion, thereby threatening the First Amendment rights. In discussing the FCC's investigation into CBS over a 60 Minutes interview with Kamala Harris, she asserts, "It is clear that none of these cases meet the news distortion standard, which is very hard to prove because you have to have that intentionality" [07:10].

Historical Context and Resistance to Political Pressure

Drawing parallels to historical instances, Gomez references President Franklin D. Roosevelt and President Kennedy's pressures on the FCC, noting that past FCC chairs resisted political interference to protect media independence. She warns that the current administration's attempts to control the FCC reflect a similar pattern of censorship and control [10:04].

Anna M. Gomez's Commitment to Defending the First Amendment

Facing potential removal from her position, Gomez resolutely declares, "I'm going to continue to stand firm in my beliefs and speak up in defense of the First Amendment and on behalf of consumers" [12:11]. She underscores the importance of protecting the First Amendment as a pillar of democracy and calls for public support against violations [11:32].

Notable Quotes:

• "Capitulation breeds capitulation." – Anna M. Gomez [00:59]
• "News distortion must involve a significant event and not merely a minor or incidental aspect of the news report." – Anna M. Gomez [07:10]
• "The FCC does not have authority under the law, under the Constitution to go after these practices." – Anna M. Gomez [05:16]
• "Unlawfully removing me from office would disregard the will of Congress." – Anna M. Gomez [12:11]

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The Divided Dial Finale: Pirates vs. Profiteers on Shortwave Radio

Evolution of Shortwave Radio

The finale of The Divided Dial series, hosted by Katie Thornton, transitions from exploring the right-wing takeover of AM/FM talk radio to focusing on the resurgence and transformation of shortwave radio. Thornton recounts her first experience tuning into shortwave radio, describing the excitement and unexpected content she discovered [15:31].

The Pirate Radio Movement

Shortwave radio, once a tool for global communication and government propaganda, has become a haven for pirate broadcasters who operate without licenses. These pirates offer a diverse range of programming, from niche music genres to unconventional talk shows. Matt Todd, a radio enthusiast interviewed in the episode, explains the allure of pirate radio: "People create the radio station that they always wanted to have. People told me they hear more musical variety on pirate shortwave than they ever do on big streaming services." [26:26].

Technological Advances and Pirate Broadcasting

With advancements like software-defined radios, enthusiasts like Matt Todd can easily scan and record multiple shortwave frequencies, capturing a variety of pirate broadcasts. These pirates provide a freeform and unpredictable listening experience, contrasting sharply with the more commercial and regulated broadcasters [23:50].

The Shortwave Modernization Coalition and Financial Interests

The episode reveals a significant shift in the use of shortwave frequencies. The Shortwave Modernization Coalition, comprising Wall Street firms and tech companies, has petitioned the FCC to repurpose shortwave frequencies for high-speed financial trading. These entities argue that shortwave signals can transmit trading instructions faster than traditional internet or satellite methods, potentially shaving milliseconds off transactions [35:12].

Implications for Public Airwaves

This move by financial firms represents a fundamental change in the purpose of shortwave radio—from a public resource for diverse communication to a tool for private monetary gain. Katie Thornton raises critical questions about the future of public airwaves and the potential erosion of access for hobbyists and independent broadcasters [45:06].

Public vs. Private Interests in the Electromagnetic Spectrum

Natalia Fotich, a telecom attorney, emphasizes that the electromagnetic spectrum is a public resource intended to serve the public interest. The push by the Shortwave Modernization Coalition to allocate frequencies for private trading jeopardizes this principle. She warns against commodifying the spectrum solely for profit, arguing that it detracts from its original public-serving purpose [37:12].

Resistance and Advocacy for Public Access

Despite the financial push, there is resistance from shortwave advocates like Bennett Cobb, who urge the FCC to maintain public access and support diverse broadcasting. Thornton posits that shortwave radio could serve as a battleground for preserving public airwaves against privatization [47:05].

Final Thoughts on Spectrum Privatization

The episode concludes with reflections on the broader implications of privatizing the electromagnetic spectrum. Hosts advocate for retaining the spectrum as a shared public resource, highlighting the essential role it plays in media infrastructure and public communication. They underscore the need for public advocacy to prevent the spectrum from being monopolized by profit-driven entities [50:01].

Notable Quotes:

• "People create the radio station that they always wanted to have." – Matt Todd [26:26]
• "The electromagnetic spectrum is like an invisible rainbow." – Natalia Fotich [37:07]
• "The earth is flat and God tells you so." – Katie Thornton [51:10] (Note: This quote reflects a specific pirate broadcast content, illustrating the diversity and unpredictability of pirate radio)
• "The electromagnetic spectrum is the invisible backbone of our media ecosystem, the infrastructure of how we disseminate information." – Matt Todd [50:01]

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Conclusion

This episode of On the Media offers a compelling examination of contemporary challenges to media freedom and the evolving dynamics of radio broadcasting. Anna M. Gomez's insights shed light on the precarious state of free speech within regulatory frameworks, while The Divided Dial finale illustrates the ongoing tug-of-war between public access and private interests on the electromagnetic spectrum. Together, these discussions underscore the critical importance of safeguarding public resources and democratic principles in the face of political and commercial pressures.

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Additional Resources:

• Live Show Invitation: Michael Olinger invites listeners to a live show on June 11 in New York with Katie Thornton, discussing the Divided Dial series and the role of public airwaves. [00:00]
• Supporting Materials: Listeners are encouraged to visit wnyc.org/events for more information.

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Produced by WNYC Studios. For more episodes and information, visit On the Media.

Transcript

[Michael Olinger]

Hey, it's Micah. If you've been enjoying the Divided Dial series as much as we have, come join us in New York on June 11 for a very cool, very low key live show that I'll be doing with Katie Thornton. We'll hear about the crazy lengths Katie went to to bring these stories to life and we'll talk about what our role is in keeping the public airwaves public. The event is on June 11th in New York. You can find more [e-mail] events and in the show notes for today's PODC. Come and nerd out with us on all things radio. It's gonna be really fun. Before the Federal Communications Commission approved a $20 billion acquisition by Verizon, it had an eye popping requirement. The merger was approved in part because Verizon promised to end its DEI program. From WNYC in New York, this is on the Media. I'm Michael Oinger. The FCC's lone Democratic commissioner is speaking out.

[Anna M. Gomez]

It's not our agency's function to prosecute diversity, equity and inclusion. And what alarms me about it is that capitulation breeds capitulation.

[Michael Olinger]

Also on this week's show, the final installment of the Divided Dial, the pirates versus the profiteers.

[Katie Thornton]

As the other radio frequencies get more and more jammed up with things like wifi and satellites, where is the available real estate? Well, it's in the shortwave. Who would have thought that shortwave is now fabulously valuable to Wall Street?

[Michael Olinger]

It's all coming up after this.

[Brooke Gladstone]

ON the Media is supported by Doubleday Books, publisher of Strangers in the Land. New Yorker writer Michael Woe traces the epic history of Chinese exclusion and their struggle to truly belong in America. Spanning from the 19th century to modern times, Strangers in the Land is a must read for anyone interested in American history and understanding the current anti American moment. Available wherever books are sold. On the Media is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Michael Olinger]

From WNYC in New York, this is ON THE media. Brooke Gladstone is out this week. I'm Michael Lowinger. On Tuesday, this happened. NPR and 3 Colorado Public Radio stations today filed suit against the Trump administration in federal court.

[Anna M. Gomez]

Trump has accused NPR and PBS of bias, signing an executive order for the Corporation of Public Broadcasting to stop funding them. White House officials said both Organizations had received, quote, tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer funds each year to spread radical woke propaganda disguised as newspaper.

[Michael Olinger]

NPR's lawyers argue that the President's actions are retaliatory and as such are a clear violation of the First Amendment. Right now the constitutional right to report without government interference is under assault all over the place. Recently I spoke to Anna Gomez, the lone Democratic commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission, the independent federal agency that regulates much of the US Media. She's been on something of a media tour, speaking out about what she sees as the weaponization of her agency.

[Anna M. Gomez]

What I am witnessing includes investigating broadcasters for editorial decisions in their newsrooms, threatening tech companies that respond to their customers desire for fact checking, investigating regulates for their fair hiring practices. The administration tried to shutter the Voice of America and Radio Marti. And all of these activities are taking place without commissioner votes. What is happening is they are being done at the staff level through investigations and threats so that you get maximum result without the possibility of review by a commissioner like myself or even the courts.

[Michael Olinger]

So if I understand you correctly, the authority that you're supposed to wield as a vote on this 5 now 4 person commission has been rendered ineffectual.

[Anna M. Gomez]

Yes, it's not unheard of for the staff to take actions. We have a very large docket and so you need to do things on delegated authority. But we are seeing actions by the commission that should be done at my level. For example, approving a major merger while demanding that the providers agree to, for example, eliminate diversity, equity and inclusion throughout the company.

[Michael Olinger]

Are you referring to news that the FCC had granted Verizon approval for a $20 billion deal? In the announcement approving the deal, the FCC cited Verizon's commitment to, quote, ending DEI related practices.

[Anna M. Gomez]

If I had known that this was coming, I would have demanded that it be done at the commission level. It's not our agency's function to prosecute diversity, equity and inclusion. The argument is that fairness for all requires discrimination against some, and that's just not true. Diversity, equity and inclusion practices are not about discrimination. They are about fairness. Fairness. So we have this undefined, unproven and indistinguishable standard that these companies are being held against called invidious discrimination. And that's being used to target them. So it is incumbent that this commission identify what it means by invidious discrimination and what evidence they have it even exists. Otherwise we're just enforcing against things we don't like. And what alarms me about it is that capitulation breeds capitulation So I keep hoping that companies will get more courageous and push back because the commission does not have authority under the law, under the Constitution to go after these practices.

[Michael Olinger]

Speaking of capitulation, we're currently seeing CBS grapple with an investigation from the fcc. In short, President Trump took issue with the editing of a 60 Minutes interview with Kamala Harris during the 2024 campaign. The FCC is investigating 60 Minutes in CBS for alleged intentional news distortion in that edit of the Kamala Harris interview. FCC Chair Brendan Carr also used that term news distortion in his posts on X when criticizing coverage of Kilmar Obrego Garcia on Comcast stations, which would include NBC and msnbc.

[Anna M. Gomez]

The Communications act prohibits the FCC from censorship. So news distortion must involve a significant event and not merely a minor or incidental aspect of the news report. The broadcasters have to have deliberately distorted a factual news report and not the national network, but the local broadcaster, because they are the ones that actually hold the license. It is clear that none of these cases meet the news distortion standard, which is very hard to prove because you have to have that intentionality. The 60 Minutes case is really obvious now that the FCC has posted the video of the interview. It is clear that there was no intentional distortion here. However, the threats have a chilling effect, which is part of the reason this violates our First Amendment and the freedom of the press, because no station wants to be dragged before the FCC in an investigation of its practices. I am hearing from local broadcasters that they are telling their reporters to please be careful about what they say and how they report. And that is the opposite of what I would hope these independent broadcasters do.

[Michael Olinger]

In recent months, public broadcasters, such as our producing station wnyc, my employer, are also being investigated by the fcc. Chairman Brendan Carr has said he's concerned that NPR and PBS broadcasts could be violating federal law by airing commercials. What do you make of this investigation? Where do you think it's headed?

[Anna M. Gomez]

The threat against the public broadcasters, as you note, is based on their sponsorship notices. And the broadcasters are very careful about how they do those notices. And in that initial letter, there is actually no allegation of a specific instance where that is an issue. And in fact, the letter went to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and npr, neither of which actually have licenses with the fcc. Since then, the FCC has opened up some investigations against these local broadcasters, and the complaint is supposed to be about the sponsorship notices, but that's in fact not what it is. Because when you hear this being talked about on the Hill, when you talk about defunding the public broadcasters, it is entirely because they disagree with the content and their news editorial decisions.

[Michael Olinger]

This is not the first time that the FCC has faced pressure from the executive to effectively weaponize its Broadcast Licensing Authority. You've pointed to President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his relationship with the agency back in 1939. What do you see in that precedent and how is it different now?

[Anna M. Gomez]

Yeah, there's multiple examples. There's, as you note, FDR pressuring then Chairman Fly over permitting radio stations to also own newspapers because FDR didn't like the way he was being covered. Then you had President Kennedy pressuring the chairman of the FCC to act against NBC because he was again unhappy with how he was being portrayed. And those chairs showed a lot of courage in telling the presidents at the time that they would not bow to their political pressure and take adverse action against their broadcasters because the President did not like the content of their coverage.

[Michael Olinger]

Recently you've been on something of a publicity tour. You've voiced your opposition to a number of new investigations by your agency. You're obviously speaking to me right now.

[Anna M. Gomez]

We.

[Michael Olinger]

What do you hope to accomplish?

[Anna M. Gomez]

What I hope to get out of it is not just to educate people, but also to encourage people to stand up and to speak up and to push back, because we must push back against violations of the First Amendment. The First Amendment is a pillar of our democracy and it is very important that we protect it.

[Michael Olinger]

You said recently in a speech that if I'm removed from my seat on the commission, let it be said plainly, it wasn't because I failed to do my job, it's because I insisted on doing it. I just. I liked that line.

[Anna M. Gomez]

Well, thank you. You know, removing minority members of independent commissions again is a reflection of this administration's policy of control and censorship. And I also see it as a sign of weakness and a sign of fear. It's fear of any dissenting voice that pushes back against this administration. Now, unlawfully removing me from office would disregard the will of Congress. The FCC is set up as an independent commission. I was confirmed by the Senate and we are overseen by Congress. Bipartisan majority intended for me to serve my term. And it would also violate the spirit of the law that governs this independent agency. So I'm going to continue to stand firm in my beliefs and speak up in defense of the First Amendment and on behalf of consumers.

[Michael Olinger]

Anna M. Gomez is commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission. Commissioner, thank you very much.

[Anna M. Gomez]

Thank you.

[Michael Olinger]

Coming up on the short waves, pirate radio is alive and well. This is on the media, on the Media supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Joseph Cox]

WNYC Studios is supported by Focus Features and Indian Paintbrush Presenting the Phoenician Scheme an epic comedy adventure from director Wes Anderson starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Thruppetin, Michael Cera and an all star cast. Follow Zsa Zsa Korda as he races to survive assassinations, win back his daughter and pull off the scheme of a lifetime. The PhoEnician scheme rated PG13 in select theaters in New York and Los Angeles May 30 Everywhere June 6.

[Katya Rogers]

Hey, I'm Joseph Cox, the host of another podcast I think you'll like the 404 Media Podcast. We're an independent news outlet covering the the bleeding edge of technology and how that impacts you. Every week we discuss our latest stories that you cannot find anywhere else. Whether that's how AI slop is spreading across the Internet or overlooked stories about Elon Musk's federal government takeover. We hold tech to account. Just search for the 404 Media Podcast.

[Michael Olinger]

This is on the Media. I'm Michael Olinger. Over the last few weeks we've been airing our special series the Divided Dial, hosted by Katie Thornton. The first season was all about the right wing takeover of AM&FM Talk Radio. This season is all about shortwave radio. We've talked about the history of government propaganda on the medium and more recently the rise of cults and extremists. This final episode features the story of a present day battle playing out on the shortwave frequencies between two very different groups.

[Matt Todd]

Here's Katie okay, 11:07am May 18, 2024 a little over a year ago I tried for the first time ever to pick up a shortwave radio broadcast. I'm out in Wisconsin as if on cue. Okay. It was a really nice spring day, if a little windy, so I was outside. Power it up. So this is fm. I found a little shortwave radio that my grandma had given my parents years ago before she died. Wide or narrow? I don't know what that means. It took me a while to figure out how to use the thing. Just minimized the treble to try to get some of the static out. This is like such a stupid question, but does wind blow radio waves? How to find the frequency frequencies that were active. I kept hearing a voice 93, 33.

[Anna M. Gomez]

No, come back.

[Matt Todd]

I feel like Jodie Foster in contact right now. Like, when her signal goes out and she thinks the aliens are gone, I'm like, that's me right now. But eventually I started picking stuff up. Oh, my gosh. Voices, voices, voices. The antenna is broken, so I'm just gonna grab a pliers quick and, like, squeeze it into place. What? Okay. I'm holding the pliers on the antenna. I'm getting way better reception. Like, let me. No, pliers. Pliers. Oh, my God. I think I'm an antenna. Let me try. Going back to 93, 30. 11,020 kilohertz. Oh, my God. Banger. Honestly, going to keep surfing. Surfing the waves. Oh, my God. I just got here. Christian rock. Come back. I have to say, I've never been so excited to hear Christian rock. Once I got the hang of it, I started to pick up a lot of stuff.

[Anna M. Gomez]

This is a matter of life and death for the church. The church will not repopulate itself. I'm sorry.

[Matt Todd]

There's so many now I heard World's last chance. Okay, now we're going to get into the usage of the World Almighty. In the New Testament, God was made of revelation. I heard brother RG Stare the baby.

[Katie Thornton]

That is a birth either going to heaven or hell.

[Matt Todd]

I was just so excited. It was just me on my own for hours. Kind of like being caught in a social media scroll, but a lot less passive. And eventually I filled in my dad when he came into the room. Oh, you know what kind of station I heard earlier? It was just beep, beep, beep, beep, which is usually like a code that somebody's receiving. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Content be damned. I was loving the short waves. I can play it for you. This is season two of the Divided Dial from On the Media. I'm your host, Katie Thornton. This season, we've been talking all about shortwave radio. How it went from a utopian experiment in global communications to a haven for the far right, even if that's not necessarily what a lot of shortwave listeners want to hear in many parts of the world. Shortwave radio is still a lifeline here in the US Though these days it's mostly a hobby. But right now, there's a battle playing out on our shortwaves. It's taking place between two parties with very different visions for how the shortwaves should be used. And that ideological battle between the Pirates and the Profiteers tells us a lot about how we regard our public airwaves on this final episode of this season of the Divided Dialogue, we go deep into the future of the shortwaves and why they might matter more than we think. In the years since I had that first solitary channel surfing experience, I've been able to tune in together with other shortwave listeners.

[Bennett Cobb]

I have six or seven antennas in.

[Matt Todd]

The attic in their living rooms, in their modern day Radio Shacks.

[Bennett Cobb]

Okay, so this is an hoa, so I can't do a lot outside.

[Matt Todd]

And one of the folks I listened with was this guy, Matt Todd.

[Bennett Cobb]

It's a loop on the ground. You can kind of see it out there.

[Matt Todd]

Oh yeah, yeah, I can see where it's. He lives about a half hour north of where I live in Minneapolis. And not unlike David Goren from episode one, Matt is a radio enthusiast who likes to record what he hears. Another one of shortwave's informal archivists. And he doesn't just record shortwave, he records all sorts of radio. In fact, I first reached out to him when I was reporting season one because I found some clips he'd recorded from Salem Media Group during the capitol riot on January 6th. Back then, I didn't even know shortwave was still a thing. Matt listens to the radio all the time. Aviation radio, police and fire scanners and lots of shortwave. And like a lot of the folks who sent us the voice memos we played at the end of the last episode, he was especially excited when he was flipping through the shortwave band and heard on the Media, which we've been airing on a shortwave station, WRMI out of Florida for several months. Hi, WRMI listeners. My name is Katya Rogers and I'm.

[Katie Thornton]

The executive producer of on the Media. Right now we're making a podcast and.

[Anna M. Gomez]

A radio series all about shortwave radio.

[Matt Todd]

And we want to hear that more shortwave. Radioactive Meta, huh? People have been writing us in. It's nice. Good. I was surprised at how many people were just so thrilled to hear it on there.

[Bennett Cobb]

On the Media is different than what you'd normally hear on a lot of it. It's not God stuff and it's not right wing talk. It's something different.

[Matt Todd]

It's not that Matt hates the God stuff or the right wing talk, but like so many short wave fans, he got into it for the surprise. The worldliness in the last several decades as lots of countries have backed away from their government run services and the private stations have been dominated by big names like Brother Stair or World's Last Chance who snatch up tons of cheap airtime in Bulk. There's just not as much variety anymore. And that's why Matt and lots of other shortwave lovers have taken a special interest in shortwave pirates. You know, people broadcasting without a license to do so. To be clear, broadcasting without a license is illegal. We're not advocating for it. And if you do it on, say, the FM dial, where there are relatively few frequencies and lots of license stations whose owners hate interference, the FCC comes down on you pretty hard and fast. But on the shortwave frequencies, there's plenty of free space and almost no policing. Matt has this thing called a software defined radio. Basically, it's a radio he plugs into a computer so he doesn't have to sit there and turn through every possible frequency. And through long stretches of static, he can plug this thing into a computer screen and see what frequencies are active and then click over and listen what.

[Katie Thornton]

The hell is going on.

[Matt Todd]

He can also use it to record not just a sound single station, but a whole stretch of shortwave frequencies, like as if you TiVo'd every channel. It's pretty cool. So technically, Matt and I sat down on January 3rd of this year, but we were surfing the airwaves from a few nights prior, New Year's Eve, because holidays are known as especially active times for shortwave radio pirates. That's right, you're tuned in to daiso radio New Year's Eve extravaganza. There was a huge variety of music, from old blues to synth pop. Sometimes the people broadcasting just sang along over the recording, karaoke style.

[Bennett Cobb]

Towards midnight. Nope, there's another one that came on there.

[Matt Todd]

Someone popped on right around midnight Eastern time to play a cheesy recording of Auld Lang Syne. Someone else played old Casey Kasem broadcasts.

[Bennett Cobb]

There's one around Christmas that does broadcasting, like FDR speeches and some stuff from kind of that era. I think he even called it wfdr.

[Matt Todd]

There was one guy who just played the sound of dogs barking over the song Cars by Gary Newman for like an hour. Oh, okay. This is still gone. We were having a really good time tuning in. And Matt had all these other files on his computer from pirates who have taken to the short waves in recent years. Happy Halloween to everybody else there in the ionic sphere. Radio land.

[Bennett Cobb]

I mean, Halloween's the big. That's like the super bowl of them.

[Matt Todd]

And it's not just holidays. On any given weekend, any given day, you can hear a lot of pirates hijacking the shortwaves.

[Katie Thornton]

Wolverine and wddr.

[Matt Todd]

The pirates have been busy. They've made pop UP stations entirely devoted to things like bowling or comedy or jazz and bebop. Random stations come and go, like Shrimp Boat Radio, which allegedly broadcasts from a literal shrimp boat. We're talking about anything politics to shrimping.

[Bennett Cobb]

This is Pouthouse radio.

[Katie Thornton]

You didn't really expect something normal.

[Matt Todd]

Thunder Chicken Radio Radio nonsense, Boombox radio Radio Free Whatever. One person I spoke with described the pirate stations as watering holes where people create the radio station that they always wanted to have. People told me they hear more musical variety on pirate shortwave than they ever do on big streaming services. It's so not who you are.

[Anna M. Gomez]

It's another world.

[Natalia Fotich]

The fact is that pirate radio is alive and well.

[Matt Todd]

This is Bennett Cobb. He's retired now, but for decades he was a trade journalist working the FCC beat. Today he runs a blog covering all sorts of weird stuff that can be found on the radio waves. Suffice to say, Bennett also listens to the radio a lot. And he also hears a lot of pirates.

[Katie Thornton]

Some of these stations have literally lasted decades.

[Matt Todd]

He remembers this one he first picked up years ago.

[Katie Thornton]

I remember that station vividly because the guy running it believed he was the Antichrist. He apparently had some kind of an accident where he cut himself and there was some bleeding or he didn't bleed or something, or whatever, and this transformed him into the Antichrist.

[Matt Todd]

Usually these shortwave pirates aren't bringing you more of the same preaching or ultra conservative talk. For the most part, they've reclaimed the airwaves for something a little lighter. Yeah, for some political conversation, maybe for claims of being the Antichrist, but also just for some fun.

[Natalia Fotich]

The prospect of an international audience for your broadcast, whether you are playing a religious message or you're playing Lynyrd Skynyrd, is just too attractive to pass up.

[Katie Thornton]

The immediate appeal is being able to play your favorite music and rant as you like, whether it is pro Christ or Antichrist, and be heard.

[Matt Todd]

To many in the shortwave world, this is what the future of the medium sounds like. Still scratchy as hell, but unexpected. Freeform. An ethereal space like none other, where people can hear some truly wild material from the other side of the country or the other side of the world. No WI fi needed. But it turns out that pirates aren't the only ones trying something novel on shortwave. There's another group with a very different vision for the future of the airwaves. And if they get their way, the short waves might sound less like this and more like this. That's coming up after the break. This is the divided dial from OnTheMedia foreign.

[Michael Olinger]

Is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states.

[Katya Rogers]

Hey, I'm Joseph Cox, the host of another podcast I think you'll like. The 404 Media Podcast. We're an independent news outlet covering the bleeding edge of technology and how that impacts you. Every week we discuss our latest stories that you cannot find anywhere else. Whether that's how AI slop is spreading across the Internet or overlooked stories about Elon Musk's federal government takeover. We we hold tech to account. Just search for the 404 Media Podcast.

[Matt Todd]

This is on the Media. I'm Katie Thornton, host of the Divided Dials series. We're right in the middle of the last episode of our second season. Right before the break, I told you that another group has recently shown interest in the shortwaves. Bennett Cobb told me the story, which begins several years ago. Because he's a huge fan of radio, Bennett likes to read applications that have been submitted to the FCC specifically for what are called experimental licenses.

[Katie Thornton]

A typical example would be if a satellite examines hydrology, water uses natural resources.

[Matt Todd]

Basically, experimental licenses are for folks who are trying to invent or perfect new technology that uses radio waves in some way. The FCC lets you apply for temporary permission to use specific frequencies. It's pretty cool. Like the federal government sets aside some of our airwaves to see if the next Marconi is out there.

[Katie Thornton]

So many of these are university satellite programs. The other big category would be product development.

[Matt Todd]

The FCC's rules generally prohibit making money off these experiments, but companies can use them to test out new devices, see if they work before bringing them to market. Like Bennett once saw an application for this thing that looked like a chandelier.

[Katie Thornton]

But actually contained antennas that would jam communications within your own home. This has something to do with sort of fighting back against WI fi or something. Okay, so instead of telling your kids to turn off the phone and go play outside, you would turn on this massive chandelier, which would prevent all type of electronic use in the household.

[Matt Todd]

That one didn't seem to go anywhere. Bottom line here though, these are applications to use the public airwaves. So the applications are publicly available and Bennett loves pouring through them. Even if oddball ideas like the anti wifi chandelier are the exciting exception. To the rule.

[Katie Thornton]

I go through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these licenses. The overwhelming majority of them are not particularly interesting.

[Matt Todd]

But a few years back, he noticed something out of the ordinary.

[Katie Thornton]

There were these applications being filed from companies with peculiar names and that nobody knew who they were or what they were doing.

[Matt Todd]

What were the names of the entities?

[Katie Thornton]

One of them is called County Information Services, which is the most blase, unavailing name. It's not clear that this station has anything to do with counties.

[Matt Todd]

And there was another thing that made these applications stand out, the fact that these were shortwave.

[Katie Thornton]

Because shortwave experimental applications are rare, the FCC grants hundreds of these licenses a month. It's very rare to see one that deals with shortwave at all.

[Matt Todd]

By now, you all know that shortwave radio waves are really good at covering long distances, thanks to them bouncing off the upper atmosphere and coming back to earth. But shortwaves aren't good for short distances. So things like that anti wifi chandelier, or even most radio sensors for scientific experiments, they wouldn't use the shortwaves. Plus, shortwave, as you've heard, isn't super high fidelity. So seeing even one, let alone multiple, applications to experiment on shortwave, that surprised Bennett, and he wanted to know more. No big deal, because applicants looking to experiment with the public airwaves have to include a statement saying what they're going to do and why.

[Katie Thornton]

But they're also allowed to make a formal request that that information not be exposed publicly.

[Matt Todd]

Most of these mysterious applications had requested that the FCC keep that information out of the public eye. And the FCC overwhelmingly obliged. You know, trade secrets.

[Katie Thornton]

And the fact that the details were withheld made it even more intriguing.

[Matt Todd]

So Bennett couldn't read most of the contents of these applications, but he could see that the FCC was okaying them. These experimenters were getting access to the air. But beyond that, Bennett had hit a wall until he met a guy with inside knowledge of these applications. And that guy gave Bennett the dirt on these companies with peculiar names and why they wanted to get on the short waves.

[Natalia Fotich]

It's private, encrypted buy and sell instructions.

[Matt Todd]

Buy and sell instructions for high speed international trading, as in stocks, equities, the market. Because when it comes to the market, speed matters.

[Katie Thornton]

The faster the trade can be completed, the more money that can be made, because these are very small changes in price.

[Matt Todd]

It turns out there's a corner of the finance world where people have gone to insane lengths to shave fractions of a second off transaction times. Finance guys have invented new fiber optic cables that might go faster than existing ones. They've bored through mountains to lay a more direct fiber path. There is a lawsuit over misuse of microwaves. It's a whole thing. To date, these guys have typically had their computers send these, buy, sell instructions via satellite or the Internet over lightning fast ocean spanning fiber cables. But using those experimental licenses, they found that shortwave signs, signals get across the world faster than the Internet, faster than satellites, a whopping 9 milliseconds faster. According to one licensee, a century old technology won these high speed traders, they aren't looking to broadcast shows or tinker with anti wifi chandeliers. What they're after really is real estate. Real estate on the electromagnetic spectrum.

[Brendan Carr]

So every time we are listening to the radio, watching TV or using like a banking app on a mobile device, we are making use of the electromagnetic spectrum.

[Matt Todd]

This is Natalia Fotich. She's an attorney who works on telecom issues and has written about access to the electromagnetic spectrum, which she says is.

[Brendan Carr]

Like an invisible rainbow.

[Matt Todd]

The electromagnetic spectrum is basically a spectrum of visible and invisible light. We can see a small portion of these light waves. That's the visible light part. And it sits in the middle of the spectrum. Up above that, in the really high frequencies, you get to things like X ray, which is regulated by the Food and Drug Administration, not the Federal Communications Commission. But below, below our visible light range are all the radio waves. Those are monitored by the FCC and another group, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, which manages all the federal government's use of radio, military, aviation, and on the invisible radio rainbow, a lot is possible.

[Brendan Carr]

Whenever you use your cell phone, whenever.

[Katie Thornton]

You use a gps, the AM broadcaster.

[Natalia Fotich]

The Esso broadcaster, the shortwave broadcaster, television.

[Matt Todd]

Satellite communications satellites for scientific experiments and.

[Natalia Fotich]

Weather hobby and experimental uses.

[Matt Todd]

There is the amateur radio, amateur radio, you know, hams doing the walkie talkie thing.

[Natalia Fotich]

There's the radio for business purposes, for police purposes, law enforcement.

[Brendan Carr]

Some frequencies are better for shorter distances, some are better for longer distances.

[Matt Todd]

Sometimes it even helps you shop.

[Natalia Fotich]

When you approach a grocery store and the doors open magically, there is a radio transmitter above the door that detects the presence of the person and opens the door.

[Matt Todd]

All these radio devices, they start with a transmitter. They encode sound or data or images into a beam of this invisible light. On Natalia's invisible rainbow. Imagine like radio coming in on blue and, you know, WI fi coming through on green. The light gets sent out on a specific frequency to your home radio set or your cell phone or that little sensor above the grocery store door. Your receiver decodes it, and voila, the door opens. You check Instagram, you hear the radio. It all happens like that. So radio waves can do a lot. And it turns out the shortwaves, which are basically a stretch of frequencies above am, like if you imagine your AM dial going off really far to the right. The shortwaves, while they aren't good for too much, they can do more than just carry scratchy voices. They can carry data codes, instructions for a computer to follow. And that brings us back to Bennett's sleuthing. He knew that these applicants wanted to use the shortwaves for trading, but the trail had gone cold because the fcc, at the request of the guys with the experimental licenses, was withholding information. The details were off limits to the public. That is until 2023, when the parent companies behind many of these experimental licenses got together and made a formal on the record request.

[Natalia Fotich]

They have come out publicly with a petition to the FCC stating, yes, we have been operating these experimental stations for trading purposes.

[Matt Todd]

These parent companies have names like Virtue Financial Inc. Tower Research Capital llc, DRW holdings llc, Jump Trading Group. And what they said to the FCC was, hey, those secret applications, we're the ones behind them. We've been using them to show that high speed trading is possible on shortwave. And we think it's time that you, the fcc, let us use some of those shortwaves to do this for real. No more experiments. It's time for us to make some money.

[Natalia Fotich]

And as a group, they call themselves the Shortwave Modernization Coalition.

[Matt Todd]

The Shortwave Modernization Coalition. Not radio lovers who love broadcasting, but a bunch of Wall street guys, tech bros. And venture capitalists who want the FCC to let them use the airwaves to make more money. In their vision for the future of the shortwaves, there's no human touch.

[Katie Thornton]

The trading is arranged by computers. There's not like a human voice speaking. And then of course, you wouldn't know what they were transmitting. Nobody could decode it.

[Matt Todd]

To everyone and everything other than the computers receiving the instructions, data sounds like nothing. Maybe some static, just blips between computers. I want to clarify something. The Shortwave Modernization Coalition isn't proposing to do away with shortwave broadcasting. Within the shortwaves, you have some frequencies allocated for broadcasts, some for emergencies, some for the ham radio guys, et cetera. And at this point, the Shortwave Modernization Coalition has only asked the FCC to give them a small portion of mostly unused shortwave frequencies, ones that are currently set aside for things like backup emergency communications. And the FCC hasn't made a final decision yet. But what this group is asking for essentially is that the FCC fundamentally changed the purpose of this portion of the shortwave band away from public interest and toward private gain. Because remember from season one, the electromagnetic spectrum are radio waves. They're supposed to belong to the public. Natalia Fotich Again, these frequencies, although they're.

[Brendan Carr]

Invisible, this invisible rainbow is a public.

[Matt Todd]

Resource, a public resource owned by all of us and regulated by our elected.

[Brendan Carr]

Governments, like, you know, national parks or waterways, which means that it should be managed. Always thinking about the public interest.

[Matt Todd]

But like water or the land beneath national parks, the airwaves are really valuable. And over the years, more and more of the public land of the spectrum has been privatized, often leased out to for profit corporations like Verizon and AT&T. For many decades, that's been the model of how the US government makes money off this public resource. They lease out these frequencies, often with long lease terms, by auctioning them to the highest bidder. And those companies then use part of the electromagnetic spectrum they're leasing from us to sell us things like WI fi access. Legally, those corporations are still required to serve the public interest. But with things like broadband Internet still unaffordable to many Americans, it's easy to argue that they don't always do that. Historically, this land grab has happened on the more capable parts of the spectrum, the frequencies that are good at, say, carrying WiFi from a 5G tower to your phone. Telecom companies haven't seen the shortwaves as worth trying to get. They're not used to transmit the Internet. A solar flare can knock them out. Even the FCC has tended to ignore them. In fact, right now the FCC doesn't even auction off the shortwaves. You can just apply, pay some fees, and if you qualify, you can get on there rent free.

[Katie Thornton]

But you see, this is what's so interesting about it. First of all, as the other radio frequencies get more and more jammed up with things like WI fi and microwave and satellites, where is the available real estate? Well, it's in the shortwave. But technology is improving its ability to use frequencies in general, and the trading is a perfect example of that. Who would have thought that shortwave is now fabulously valuable to Wall Street?

[Matt Todd]

I asked Bennett if he thinks there's any possibility this thing might not go through, that the FCC might say no to the Shortwave Modernization Coalition's request to use some shortwave frequencies for trading. He thinks, not a chance.

[Katie Thornton]

I don't think that's likely at all. I think in general, this whole area is such a backwoods that the people wanting to take advantage of it are counting on the widespread lack of knowledge. I think given the predilections of this administration, I think they'll say go knock yourself out, you know, make a ton of money and go have fun with it.

[Matt Todd]

The Shortwave Modernization Coalition's formal petition to use the airwaves for trading is going to force the FCC to look at their shortwave rules for the first time in decades. And so this April, after the FCC opened what they called the delete, delete, delete proceedings in which they asked for public comment on any regulations that people thought could be rolled back. Very Trump 2.0, Bennett and some buddies, including an old Voice of America guy, they made a parallel proposal.

[Natalia Fotich]

I have recommended that the FCC do.

[Katie Thornton]

What is being done in Europe, which.

[Natalia Fotich]

Is to reduce the minimum power to a lower power level and a smaller investment and allow.

[Matt Todd]

The FCC has this old World War II era rule that says that if you want to get a legal shortwave broadcast license, you have to build a station that puts out at least 50,000 watts of power. That's a ton of power, which means it's very expensive.

[Katie Thornton]

The old rules make it impractical to do this except illegally, which is what the pirates are doing. But I predict that if the power level were lowered, more people would do it. And I say let them do it.

[Natalia Fotich]

Let flowers bloom, see what people would do with it. So the big question is, is the FCC going to allow that or will the FCC simply take the Shortwave Modernization Coalition, give them what they want and forget the rest of it?

[Matt Todd]

The FCC hasn't responded to their proposal proposal yet. And Bennett says all of this doesn't even necessarily mean that the traders can't also get on the shortwaves. You do sort of imagine that there could be a somewhat harmonious coexistence of these entities on the shortwaves.

[Katie Thornton]

Oh yes, if it's engineered properly.

[Matt Todd]

Unlike on a lot of the rest of the spectrum, there are still a lot of shortwaves to go around. Bennett says we just have to make space for everyone. It sounds naive, almost fantastical. But honestly, when you describe how shortwave radio works today, in practice it also sounds kind of fantastical. I mean, these are globe spanning airwaves we have to share, not just nationally, but internationally. In fact, there's this group called the High Frequency Coordination Conference, made up of everyone from private station owners to government agencies from all over the world. They get together twice a year and decide which countries get to use which frequencies and when. Based on the weather and the sun, it's almost like a radio un. It's all voluntary, nothing's binding. But it's been going on for 35 years, and pretty much everyone adheres to it. Maybe you're asking yourself, why should we care? These frequencies they're proposing to use for trading, they aren't really being used anyway. And even if the traders eventually wanted to grab up more shortwave frequencies like the ones currently being used for broadcasting, do we really care? If this weird kind of radio that not very many people listen to anyway and that has some pretty heinous stuff on it, do we really care if that goes away? And I hear you, I do. Part of me wondered that, too. I grappled with it for a long time. But these airwaves, they're ours. Even when the government lends them out, the idea is that we, the public, get some kind of benefit back. But trading on shortwaves, there's nothing in it for us.

[Natalia Fotich]

These are exclusively private communication links. There's no public interest in it at all.

[Matt Todd]

And this shift in use, this permission to let people use more of the public airwaves for private gain, it would be in line with this administration's approach to the rest of the spectrum. Earlier this year, Republicans in Congress recommended that the FCC start auctioning off lots more frequencies to the highest bidder. These are frequencies that might have otherwise been used for things like affordable rural broadband. Just recently, Congress introduced a new bill that would require the federal government to auction off a ton of frequencies to offset Trump's proposed tax cuts to the.

[Bennett Cobb]

Rich, would restore FCC auction authority and.

[Matt Todd]

End our spectrum drought. Going through the auction process would yield billions and billions of dollars, as much as $100 billion. And we need that because we are in a race with China. In reporting this series, I listened to the good, bad and ugly of shortwave broadcasting. And there's lots of ugly. But I'd still rather have that, then watch the spectrum get handed over piece by piece to various profiteers. Or at least, if that happens, give us something back. How about funding public media? The electromagnetic spectrum is the invisible backbone of our media ecosystem, the infrastructure of how we disseminate information. Now, just like Medicare or education or the Voice of America, it's yet another one of our public resources that's being eroded or turned over to private hands.

[Katie Thornton]

The earth is flat and God tells you so.

[Matt Todd]

But there is resistance on the shortwaves from people like Bennett and his fellow shortwave advocates, asking the FCC to make it easier for folks to broadcast without million dollar high powered antennas.

[Katie Thornton]

Yeah, but listen to it. It's like a fine watch.

[Michael Olinger]

They're going to the uk.

[Matt Todd]

They're showing us that it isn't just bigwig financial guys who get to make demands of our institutions. The rest of us can too. And there's the pirates. Can anybody hear me radio? I'm not saying they're firing up their bootleg transmitters and thinking I'm gonna illegally play dogs barking over Gary Newman tunes to protest the electromagnetic spectrum getting privatized, but in practice, that's kind of the spirit. In my journey into the shortwaves, there's something I kept coming back to the shortwaves may not be the most effective place to insist on continued public access us, but maybe for that very reason it's the most possible place to try. A place to practice putting our foot down to keep the public in the public airwaves. That's it for this season of the Divided Dial. This series was written and reported by me, Katie Thornton, and edited by OTM's executive producer, Katya Rogers. Music and sound design is by Jared Paul. Jennifer Munson is our Technical Director. Fact checking by Graham Hacha this series is made possible in part with support from the Fund for Investigative Journalism. Special thanks this week to Matt Todd, who you heard from at the beginning of the episode, for sharing some of his pirate radio archives with us. And because this is our final episode, we have some extra thank yous. Thank you to Michael Ryan Rennan for the series art To Jeff White at WRMI who helped us get on the media out on shortwave twice a week for nearly a year now. To Steve Uckerman for sound effects to the contributors to, to and mastermind behind the Shortwave Listening Post blog which amasses shortwave stories and allows people to share great shortwave audio from their personal collections and which was really helpful to me as I reported this series and to all of the many, many people who shared their time and expertise with me for interviews and to those who wrote us or left us voice memos after hearing our show on Short Wave. Regardless of whether or not you heard from them in this final series, each each of these interviews and messages was so helpful in putting this project together. Thanks again for listening. We'll catch you next time. This is the Divided Dial.

[Michael Olinger]

On the Media is a production of WNYC Studios. I'm Michael Lenger.

[Brooke Gladstone]

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