On the Media – "Authoritarianism, but Make It Look Normal. Plus, the Family Taking Over American Media."

Date: October 11, 2025
Hosts: Brooke Gladstone & Michael Oreskes
Guests: Greg Sargent (The New Republic), Pema Levy (Mother Jones), Jake Lahut (Wired)

Overview of the Episode

This episode dissects two monumental themes dominating recent American discourse:

1. The Normalization of Authoritarianism in the United States: Through political messaging, legal maneuvers, and media practices, authoritarian tactics have been made to appear routine and justified. The episode delves into how Trump’s administration, aided by figures like Stephen Miller, leverages media and the legal system to create a perception of normalcy around drastic policy changes and crackdowns.

2. A New Media Dynasty – The Ellison Family: The latter half focuses on the rise of Larry and David Ellison, whose rapid acquisition of major American media assets (Paramount/CBS, potential CNN acquisition, major tech contracts) signals a new era of media consolidation. Their political ties, especially to Trump and Netanyahu, raise questions about media influence and democratic transparency.

Segment 1: Authoritarianism by Stealth

Media Coverage and Political Messaging (01:48–09:43)

• Setting the Scene: Trump’s depiction of cities like Portland and Chicago as violent “hellholes” is directly refuted by local officials and judges.

  • Michael Oreskes: “A federal judge in Oregon has called Trump's spin on Portland, quote, untethered to the facts.” (01:53)
  • Judge Karen Immergut: Trump's view of Portland is "untethered to the facts."
  • Governor J.B. Pritzker counters Trump's claims, noting Chicago’s lowest homicide rate in 60 years and calls military deployment a political move, not a response to actual chaos.

• Authoritarian Playbook in Action:

  • J.B. Pritzker: “The Trump administration is following a playbook. Cause chaos. Create fear and confusion...To create the pretext for invoking the Insurrection act so that he can send military troops to our city.” (05:52)
  • Brooke Gladstone references how Fox News and Republican-aligned social media circulate outdated or unrelated images to support the narrative of lawlessness.

Stephen Miller, Media Manipulation, and the Politics of Propaganda (09:43–16:53)

• Guest: Greg Sargent, The New Republic
  • Flooding the Zone: Miller and Bannon’s strategy is to inundate the public with disturbing imagery and extreme rhetoric to justify police/military action.
    • Greg Sargent: “He thinks if he can just flood the zone…they will essentially sleepwalk [voters] to a point where they'll start to accept some of this horrifying imagery.” (11:52)
  • Provocation Goal: The administration aims to elicit violent responses, fuelling the narrative that drastic measures are necessary.
    • “They will stop at nothing when it comes to the level of propagandizing they'll do to make it seem justified.” (11:21)
  • Democratic Response: Sargent criticizes most Democrats for not forcefully refuting the authoritarian tactics, with exceptions like J.B. Pritzker, Gavin Newsom, and Senator Chris Murphy, who “realize they need to be incredibly clear and blunt in warning of the threat that Trump poses.” (14:00)
  • Trap of ‘Soft on Crime’: Democrats fear speaking up for risk of being painted as weak, but Sargent warns this cedes vital ground (“A three year old can see through what he’s doing…” (16:03)).

Notable Quotes

• J.B. Pritzker: “This escalation of violence is targeted and intentional and premeditated.” (05:52)
• Greg Sargent: “[Stephen Miller] believes that if they can flood people’s brains with numbing agitprop, they will sleepwalk to [...] accept horrifying imagery…as a proportional response…which doesn’t actually exist.” (11:52)

Segment 2: The Legal System’s “Dual State” – Conversation with Pema Levy (18:30–37:16)

Ernst Frankl’s “Dual State” Theory Applied (19:38–23:42)

• Dual State Defined:

  • Pema Levy explains Ernst Frankl’s Nazi-era theory: society is divided between a “normative state” (law applies, life appears normal) and a “prerogative state” (lawlessness for targeted groups).
    • “However, if you were part of a disfavored group such as the Jews, you found yourself in what he called the prerogative state.” (19:38)
  • Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson invoked this concept in her dissent on the Supreme Court’s birthright citizenship ruling, warning of a two-track justice system.

• Legal Loopholes as Authoritarian Smokescreen:

  • Pema Levy: “She also accuses the majority of essentially using a bunch of legal speak to create a smokescreen that makes this all look really normal…” (23:01)

Current and Upcoming Supreme Court Cases (26:06–34:03)

• Case 1 – Tariffs and the Major Questions Doctrine:

  • The court is set to decide if Trump can unilaterally impose tariffs under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, a power traditionally reserved to Congress.
    • “If they are going to be consistent with this major questions doctrine, then there is no world in which the court could then turn around and say yes…You can put tariffs on any and every country you want…” (27:59)

• Case 2 – Alien Enemies Act and Deportation:

  • Trump’s use of emergency powers to deport Venezuelan immigrants under the pretense of gang activity is on hold pending Supreme Court review.

• Case 3 – Firing Federal Reserve Board Governor Lisa Cook:

  • The administration’s attempt to oust Cook signals the possibility that “the president come up with literally anything and call it a cause...then he essentially has control of the Fed.” (32:30)

• The Fragility of “Normalcy”: Even those insulated in the “normative state” can suddenly find themselves targets—with the judiciary facilitating this shift.

Justice Jackson’s Dissent and the Call to Action (34:03–37:16)

• Justice Jackson: Seen as sounding an “alarm for the public to wake up” to the court’s role in enabling authoritarianism.

  • “Justice Jackson knows she can’t stop the court’s decisions. She can’t stop Trump, but she can tell people what’s really going on. And I think the reason she would do that is to tell people, you can stand up to this before it's too late.” (34:20)

• Room for Resistance: Despite worrying trends, lower courts and some officials continue to push back against the administration’s overreach—“this is not a society that has capitulated.” (37:12)

Notable Quotes

• Pema Levy: “ICE is truly the face of a prerogative state. We just saw them rappel from helicopters onto a apartment complex on the south side of Chicago, bash in doors without warrants, grab American citizens and noncitizens alike, zip tie them, drag them out of their homes, ransack their apartments. That is not legal, that is not constitutional...” (23:46)
• Brooke Gladstone: “...the normative state is just an illusion, and a once favored person disfavored could just drop into the prerogative state at any moment, and God help you.” (24:55)

Segment 3: The Ellison Family’s Media Empire – Conversation with Jake Lahut (39:00–54:48)

The Deals and Power Moves (39:00–41:55)

• Acquisitions: David Ellison’s Skydance merges with Paramount/CBS, is eyeing Warner Bros. Discovery (incl. CNN), and has installed Bari Weiss as CBS News’ new editor in chief (with no TV background, but a powerful ideological presence).
  • Michael Oreskes: “If these deals go through, the Ellison father son duo will have become media magnates in a matter of months with control over a startlingly large slice of the attention economy.” (40:49)
  • Jake Lahut: “The Murdochs could have only dreamed of this type of a consolidated media empire.” (40:49)

Larry Ellison: From Democrat to MAGA Kingmaker (41:55–45:13)

• Shift Explained: Originally pro-Clinton, Ellison’s support shifts due to evolving Israel policy, aligning more with Republicans as U.S.-Democrat support for Netanyahu wanes.
  • “...as Barack Obama's relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu starts to deteriorate, so too does Larry Ellison's with the Democratic Party.” (42:29)
• Massive Influence: Direct funding to Netanyahu, Tony Blair, large post-office roles in the Gaza peace process, and a near-seat at the “board of whatever the reconstituted version of Gaza will look like.” (44:25)

Technology, Data, and the Attention Game (45:13–49:13)

• AI and Tech Dominance: Oracle’s partnership in OpenAI’s data infrastructure (“$3 billion partnership”) and the TikTok US spinoff put the Ellisons at the center of tech and information flow.
  • Jake Lahut on AI: “It’s almost more like Larry Ellison owns the racetrack and stands to benefit no matter who wins at this point.” (45:42)
• Potential Influence Over Social Platforms: How much could owners actually “tinker” with TikTok’s US user recommendations? Both the technical and political limits are discussed.

David Ellison: Inherited Power, Behind the Scenes (49:13–53:13)

• Background: Loves aviation (dogfights with his father), failed acting career, behind-the-camera ambitions.
  • Jake Lahut: “The thing with David is, like, he's only donated to Democrats in the past, so he's not really seen as an honorary member of the MAGA tribe in the way that his father is.” (50:48)
• Bari Weiss as Signal: The Free Press acquisition and hiring Weiss as CBS News EIC is framed as a demonstration of new power and “sending a message” to legacy journalists.

Regulatory Hurdles and the Reality of Consolidation (53:13–54:48)

• Trump-Era Media Policy: Despite historic regulatory guardrails, merger approvals are now more “transactional and brazen.” Promises of pro-Trump content and personnel “sacrifices” have been made, reminiscent of Rupert Murdoch’s struggles in a different era.

• Summary Totals:

  • Larry and David Ellison:

    • Funded Trump campaigns
    • Facilitated MAGA-friendly TikTok
    • Profiting from Oracle contracts for AI and social media
    • Gaining control over CBS, potentially CNN and vast Hollywood intellectual property
    • Exerting private influence over Israel/Palestine negotiations

  • Lahut: “This is bigger than Trump...a family that has played their cards very, very well to position themselves in this kind of media attention data behemoth status…” (54:03)

Notable Quotes

• Jake Lahut: “It really does sound legitimately insane when you lay it all out like that. But that’s what we’re dealing with here.” (54:03)
• Michael Oreskes: “The Ellison family, he wrote, is cornering the market on attention and data the same way the Vanderbilts did railroads and the Rockefellers did oil.” (40:55)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (Selected w/ Timestamps)

• “The Trump administration is following a playbook. Cause chaos...make it seem like peaceful protesters are a mob...to create the pretext for invoking the Insurrection Act so that he can send military troops to our city.”
  — J.B. Pritzker (05:52)

• “Stephen Miller believes that if they can flood people’s brains with numbing agitprop, they will essentially sleepwalk them to a point...as a proportional response to the threat that he's depicting, which doesn't actually exist.”
  — Greg Sargent (11:52)

• “ICE is truly the face of a prerogative state...[acting] without warrants, grab American citizens and noncitizens alike, zip tie them, drag them out of their homes, ransack their apartments. That is not legal, that is not constitutional...”
  — Pema Levy (23:46)

• “Justice Jackson knows she can’t stop the court’s decisions. She can’t stop Trump, but she can tell people what's really going on. And...that there is a call to action there.”
  — Pema Levy (34:20)

• “The Murdochs could have only dreamed of this kind of a consolidated media empire.”
  — Jake Lahut (40:49)

• “It's almost more like Larry Ellison owns the racetrack and stands to benefit no matter who wins at this point...”
  — Jake Lahut (45:42)

• “This is bigger than Trump. This is bigger than one administration. I think what we're looking at here is a family that has played their cards very, very well to position themselves in this kind of media attention data behemoth status that's going to be around whatever happens with Donald Trump...”
  — Jake Lahut (54:03)

Important Timestamps

• 01:53: "A federal judge in Oregon has called Trump's spin on Portland...untethered to the facts."
• 05:52: J.B. Pritzker on Operation Midway Blitz and military deployment in Chicago.
• 09:43: Stephen Miller’s propagandistic strategy discussed.
• 11:52: Greg Sargent on “flooding the zone” with divisive content.
• 19:38: Pema Levy introduces Frankl’s dual state theory.
• 27:59: “Major questions doctrine” and Trump’s tariff powers.
• 34:20: Justice Jackson’s call to action clarified.
• 40:49: Lahut: “The Murdochs could have only dreamed of this type of a consolidated media empire.”
• 45:42: Larry Ellison’s “owns the racetrack” analogy.
• 50:48: On David Ellison versus his father’s politics.
• 54:03: Recap of Ellison family empire and consolidation.

Episode Tone

• Skeptical, investigative, and urgent. The hosts and guests stress vigilance, with a tone of alarm about both creeping normalization of authoritarian tactics and unchecked media consolidation—backed by detailed, historical, and legal context.
• Analytical and sometimes dryly wry: The episode avoids shrillness but does not hide its critical stance or concern.

Conclusion

A two-part exposé: the first half dissects the mechanics and psychology behind the normalization of authoritarian power in contemporary America, warning of a "dual state" legal system and the dangers of “manufactured normalcy.” The second half is a wake-up call about who really owns and curates America’s information pipeline, warning that the media Gilded Age may have only just begun—with profound implications for democracy and public life.

Essential listening for anyone trying to understand today's media, law, and democracy crosswinds.