Conspiracy Theories Come Back to Bite MAGA. Plus, The Final Episode of The Divided Dial.

Summary

On the Media: "Conspiracy Theories Come Back to Bite MAGA. Plus, The Final Episode of The Divided Dial"

Release Date: May 23, 2025

Hosts: Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger
Produced by WNYC Studios

---

1. Introduction and Context

In this episode of the Peabody Award-winning podcast "On the Media," hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger delve into the resurgence of conspiracy theories within the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement and explore the conclusion of their investigative series, "The Divided Dial." The episode navigates through the intricate web of media influence, government transparency, and the enduring impact of shortwave radio in the digital age.

---

2. Conspiracy Theories and the MAGA Movement

The episode begins by examining how conspiracy theories have re-emerged as a significant force within the MAGA movement, particularly impacting its credibility and internal dynamics.

Alan Weiner sets the tone by stating, "[00:00] We will clean out all of the corrupt actors in our national security and intelligence apparatus," highlighting the deep-seated mistrust MAGA adherents have towards governmental institutions.

Michael Olinger continues, "[00:06] To win the last election, the president and his allies blamed the deep state for all of society's ills," illustrating how conspiracy theories have been weaponized to galvanize support and delegitimize opposition.

Will Sommer, a senior reporter at The Bulwark, provides further insight:
"[00:27] They love Trump and they're very happy with a lot of what they're getting, but also they're not getting everything. That's because a lot of their demands are impossible to deliver."
He cites impossible demands such as "arresting Hillary Clinton or finding proof that the FBI was involved with trying to assassinate Donald Trump," showcasing the unrealistic expectations fueling discontent within the movement.

---

3. The Rise and Transformation of WBCQ Shortwave Radio

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to "The Divided Dial," an investigative series exploring the evolution of shortwave radio. The narrative centers on Alan Weiner and his radio station, WBCQ, tracing its journey from a pirate station to one of the most powerful privately owned broadcasting facilities today.

a. From Pirate Radio to Licensed Station

Pam Bondi narrates the early days of Alan Weiner's rebellion against mainstream media control:
"[13:00] Allen was a tech savvy hippie with round glasses and a long bowl cut in the style of Johnny Ramone. And together with his comrades, Allen had launched a pirate radio station."

Despite multiple confrontations with the FCC, Alan persisted, ultimately legitimizing his operations in 1998 by launching WBCQ in Monticello, Maine.
"[16:46] It wasn't in the coveted corporatized market of New York City. It was in the 800 person blink and you'll miss it. Town of Monticello in far northern Maine."

b. Hosting Extremist Content

WBCQ's mission of free speech attracted a variety of voices, including extremist groups.
"[25:44] Alan Weiner: The American Nazi Party. Do you know they were one of the first people to sign up with us? They came to us. Oh, free speech right on the air. I said, yep, no problem."

Despite initial intentions, WBCQ became a platform for hate speech and extremist rhetoric. Alan grappled with the ethical dilemmas of hosting such content:
"[26:09] Alan Weiner: We had a programmer that kept getting on the air and telling people to go out and kill the Jews. And I kept calling him up and going, look, you can't encourage people to go out and kill people. You know, if that happens, you're going to go to jail."

Efforts to curb hate speech were met with resistance, leading to internal conflicts and public backlash.

---

4. Financial Struggles and the Arrival of World’s Last Chance

Facing financial difficulties, WBCQ sought new avenues of support, leading to a pivotal partnership with a far-right Christian ministry known as World’s Last Chance.

Pam Bondi outlines the transformation:
"[34:03] Alan Weiner: You know, the 50 bucks we get here and there, you know that doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't."

In 2018, WBCQ received a substantial financial boost:
"[36:10] Alan Weiner: That summer was great. WBCQ got a many million dollar cash injection and that massive new antenna, it can pump out 500 kilowatts of power, 10 times as much as WBCQ's other signals."

World’s Last Chance, led by Galal Das, an Egyptian magnate turned religious leader, provided the necessary funds to elevate WBCQ’s broadcasting capabilities.
"[38:43] Pam Bondi: They are an ultra conservative Christian End Times ministry. And they preach, among other things, things that the earth is flat."

This partnership facilitated the expansion of WBCQ's reach but also entrenched it deeper into broadcasting extremist and conspiratorial content.

---

5. Impact on the Information Ecosystem and Government Functionality

The episode critically assesses how the proliferation of conspiracy theories and extremist content on platforms like WBCQ affects broader societal structures and governmental operations.

Will Sommer provides a poignant example:
"[07:30] Will Sommer: Here's one example. You know, it's been reported that the Southern District of New York prosecutor's office essentially ground to a halt recently because so many of the employees there had been detailed by Pam Bondi towards redacting the Epstein files so they could finally be released."

This diversion of resources towards satisfying right-wing demands detracts from addressing more pressing legal and societal issues, thereby impairing governmental functionality.

---

6. Ethical Dilemmas and the Future of Free Speech on Radio

Alan Weiner's steadfast belief in absolute free speech leads to ethical quandaries, especially when hosting platforms for hate speech and extremist ideologies.

During a critical moment, Alan addresses the removal of a Nazi host:
"[28:29] Alan Weiner: [...] to all the listeners out there that hold me to my principles of allowing all voices on the air, I apologize and I am sorry. But in this one instance, and I plan to make it the last instance, I had to do it."

Despite these attempts, extremist voices like Hal Turner continue to dominate WBCQ’s airwaves, reflecting the persistent struggle between free speech and ethical responsibility.

Alan Weiner justifies his approach:
"[44:51] Alan Weiner: My political science professor used to say that if you let things fester in the dark, they will fester and grow. But if you shine the light on them, the light will help expunge it and bring it out so people can say, hey, this is wrong. We don't agree with this. You know, you shouldn't do this."

However, the unintended consequence is the amplification of harmful ideologies without adequate counter-narratives.

---

7. Listener Perspectives and the Dual Nature of Shortwave Radio

The series concludes by juxtaposing the dark turn WBCQ has taken with positive listener experiences, highlighting the multifaceted nature of shortwave radio.

Michael Olinger shares a listener's sentiment:
"[50:37] Alan Weiner: It just feels cool."

Listeners appreciate shortwave radio for its ability to transcend media bubbles and provide diverse perspectives:
"[50:37] Pam Bondi: [...] they told us the same thing. Shortwave is a way to get out of your media bubble, to get out of the US and western centric news cycle."

However, the dominance of extremist content through stations like WBCQ raises concerns about the medium’s future and its role in shaping global discourse.

---

8. Conclusion: The Battle for Public Airwaves

The final segment underscores the ongoing struggle to maintain public airwaves amidst rising profiteering and monopolization by extremist groups. The episode hints at a looming conflict between "pirate broadcasters" seeking a utopian vision for shortwave and "profiteers" aiming to control and commercialize the medium.

Pam Bondi teases the final episode:
"[52:38] Pam Bondi: On the final episode of this season, it's the battle playing out right now for our short waves between the pirates and the profiteers."

The hosts emphasize the critical importance of safeguarding public airwaves to ensure diverse and truthful information dissemination.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Alan Weiner on Free Speech:
  “[45:16] My political science professor used to say that if you let things fester in the dark, they will fester and grow. But if you shine the light on them, the light will help expunge it and bring it out so people can say, hey, this is wrong.”

• Will Sommer on Government Impact:
  “[07:30] [...] the Southern District of New York prosecutor's office essentially ground to a halt [...] in what is, I think, pretty clearly an attempt to satisfy the Attorney General's critics on right wing Twitter and YouTube.”

• Alan Weiner on Hosting Extremist Content:
  “[25:44] We had a programmer that kept getting on the air and telling people to go out and kill the Jews.”

---

Insights and Conclusions

This episode of "On the Media" provides a nuanced exploration of how conspiracy theories and extremist ideologies infiltrate and manipulate media platforms like shortwave radio to influence political movements such as MAGA. The transformation of WBCQ from a rebellious pirate station to a hub for far-right propaganda underscores the challenges in balancing free speech with ethical broadcasting. The financial entanglement with groups like World’s Last Chance further complicates the station's mission, highlighting the broader implications for the information ecosystem and governmental operations.

The conclusion points to an urgent need to address the monopolization and commercialization of public airwaves to preserve their role as diverse and truthful information sources. As shortwave radio battles between idealistic broadcasters and profiteering forces, the future of free and open communication hangs in the balance.

---

For more detailed exploration of these themes, listeners are encouraged to tune into the complete episode of "On the Media."

Transcript

[Alan Weiner]

We will clean out all of the corrupt actors in our national security and intelligence apparatus.

[Michael Olinger]

To win the last election, the president and his allies blamed the deep state for all of society's ills.

[Alan Weiner]

The departments and agencies that have been weaponized will be completely overhauled.

[Michael Olinger]

From WNYC in New York, this is on the Media. I'm Michael Owinger. Now that they're in power, the MAGA faithful are demanding the impossible.

[Will Sommer]

They love Trump and they're very happy with a lot of what they're getting, but also they're not getting everything. That's because a lot of their demands are impossible to deliver. Things like arresting Hillary Clinton or finding proof that the FBI was involved with trying to assassinate Donald Trump, things like that.

[Michael Olinger]

Plus extremists find a home at one of the world's farthest reaching radio stations based in Maine.

[Alan Weiner]

The KKK contacted us and they were really pleasant and nice and I said, sure, we'll put you on the air. And they were very, very impressed.

[Michael Olinger]

It's all coming up after this.

[Katie Thornton]

On the Media is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Michael Olinger]

From WNYC in New York, this is on the Media. Brooke Gladstone is out this week. I'm Michael Ohinger.

[Katie Thornton]

You said Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide.

[Pam Bondi]

People don't believe it.

[Michael Olinger]

Fox host Maria Bartiromo last weekend interviewing FBI Director Cash Patel and Deputy Director Dan Bongino.

[Katie Thornton]

You know a suicide when you see one.

[Alan Weiner]

And that's what that was. He killed himself. I've seen the whole file. He killed himself.

[Michael Olinger]

Former podcaster Bongino, who previously entertained conspiracy theories about the financier and alleged sex trafficker's death, now finds himself at odds with some of the MAGA Internet.

[Will Sommer]

They decided Dan has been captured by the Deep State. I saw reactions like deep State traitor in all caps.

[Michael Olinger]

Will Sommer is a senior reporter at the Bulwark.

[Will Sommer]

Alex Jones of Infowars. He said, I think he's been compromised.

[Michael Olinger]

This fissure in the MAGA media world began after Trump's DOJ failed to produce new Epstein revelations in a timely manner after promising them. Earlier this year, the Republican House Oversight.

[Will Sommer]

Committee sent multiple letters to Attorney General.

[Pam Bondi]

Pam Bondi demanding the Epstein files be released.

[Michael Olinger]

Then in late February, Bondi invited a group of far right influencers to the White House to pick up Flashy binders containing what she said was a batch of new records.

[Will Sommer]

They did this kind of grotesque photo shoot with it and it only got worse when it turned out that essentially all of the material was already public.

[Pam Bondi]

We're all waiting for bombshells, we're all.

[Michael Olinger]

Waiting for juicy stuff. And that's not what's in this binder.

[Pam Bondi]

That's not what's in this binder at all.

[Michael Olinger]

Suffice to say, the MAGA faithful were not pleased.

[Alan Weiner]

It is the biggest disappointment, I think, that you'll find it's mostly procedural jargon, heavily, heavily redacted.

[Michael Olinger]

Since then, Republican lawmakers and influencers have, have continued badgering the Trump administration, leading to this bizarre moment at the White House press briefing this week. I just wanted to highlight real quick the death of Mark Middleton, who was a former Clinton White House aide. This is a writer with Zero Hedge, a far right blog, on Monday who was found dead on a Clinton foundation property. So anyways, that's just a lead in to my question about the most famous Clinton related suicide, which is that of Jeffrey Epstein.

[Will Sommer]

Thank goodness they got rid of the AP and Reuters and now we get Zero Hedge and their thoughts about the Clinton body count.

[Michael Olinger]

Yeah. So for those of us who don't know who Zero Hedge is and what the Clinton body count is and why it matters, can you break it down?

[Alan Weiner]

Sure.

[Will Sommer]

So Zero Hedge started as a finance blog, but it also gets into a lot of like pro Russia stuff, into conspiracy theories. Its sort of logo is Brad Pitt and Fight Club. So that should kind of give you a sense of like what we're working with here.

[Michael Olinger]

I'll just jump in and say that the Biden administration actually accused Zero Hedge of publishing articles created by Moscow controlled media. So that's, that's not exactly a good look.

[Will Sommer]

It's not a credible source. It's pretty fringe even by the standards of right wing media. And so in terms of the Clinton body count, back to the first Bill Clinton campaign, this idea that the Clintons are connected to a lot of suspicious deaths. And so, you know, this became kind of an issue in the 90s with people like Web Hubble and Vince Foster. And there was this implication that Republicans seized on that perhaps these people were committing suicide or dying mysteriously to cover up some misdeed they had participated in with the Clintons.

[Michael Olinger]

So it seems to me that the Trump administration is kind of walking this funny line. On one hand, they're giving room and space to people to advance these conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein, while at the same time kind of rebutting those conspiracy theories, saying, there's nothing more here, we can't give you any more, please go away. So which is it?

[Will Sommer]

It's a great question. I mean, I think, like so many things, that they're happy for people to continue believing it as long as they don't make it too obvious. I mean, I think back to the 2020 campaign when Donald Trump was asked, you know, these QAnon people, they think you're war with these deep state pedophiles. And then he said, well, you know, what would be wrong with that? This kind of strategic ambiguity. But you're right. I mean, I think someone like Dan Bongino or Cash Patel, they have a more direct problem, which is that people are getting mad at them personally. Whereas Donald Trump, worst comes to worse, he can always just fire them and replace them with someone new to take the heat.

[Michael Olinger]

In April, you reported that when Kristi Noem took pro Trump personality Kaya Raichik, also known as the creator of the Libs of TikTok account, on an ICE raid in Phoenix, Raichik got to wear an ICE officer badge on the raid ride along, which conservatives were not super pleased with. Former 60 Minutes correspondent turned right wing pundit Laura Logan said, quote, not sure what this is, but if this is today's, quote, unquote, journalism, we are not better off. And then a writer for the right wing conspiracy website Gateway Pundit called it just embarrassing. Even as the MAGA media world sees its profile raised by the White House and by this administration, it doesn't like what it sees.

[Will Sommer]

To be clear, they love Trump and they're very happy with a lot of what they're getting. But also they're not getting everything. And in part, that's because a lot of their demands are impossible to deliver. Things like arresting Hillary Clinton or finding proof that the FBI was involved with trying to assassinate Donald Trump, things like that. So these are the kind of things that there is a lot of discontent brewing on the right. And I think that these sort of right wing personalities or these influencers who are seen as more tied to the Trump administration or as sort of like the favored figures are taking a lot of the brunt of that.

[Michael Olinger]

Beyond further damage to our information ecosystem, beyond the fact that a lot of energy and resources seems to be going towards just keeping right wing conspiracy theorists at bay, are you seeing evidence that the functionality of the government is actually suffering in an attempt to appease these right wing influencers?

[Alan Weiner]

Sure.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, here's one example. You know, it's been reported that the Southern District of New York prosecutor's office essentially ground to a halt recently because so many of the employees there had been detailed by Pam Bondi towards redacting the Epstein files so they could finally be released. And now look, obviously the Epstein case is important and ultimately I'd like to see as many files about high profile cases as possible. But at the same time you have to think, is this really like the most important thing going on for the top prosecutor's office in the country? That everything has to stop in what is, I think pretty clearly an attempt to satisfy the Attorney General's critics on right wing Twitter and YouTube? I would argue probably not.

[Michael Olinger]

There's so many storylines to keep track of for news consumers right now. And for some of us, when we see like a right wing influencer in the press briefing room talking about some conspiracy theory we've never heard of, you might be inclined to kind of tune it out. Why do you think it's worth keeping a close eye on these people and their growing profile?

[Will Sommer]

I think the reality is, whether we like it or not, I think a lot of these right wing media figures have a lot of sway over the government and can do things like sink bills by suddenly tweeting about them. They can change government policy or they can get people fired or get nominations sunk. I mean, we just saw additionally Laura Loomer criticized this woman who was up for Surgeon General and, and then her nomination got pulled. And so if you're interested in sort of the where the Trump administration is going and the direction of the country, I think unfortunately it's worthwhile keeping an eye on what these figures are up to and sort of what narratives they're promoting.

[Michael Olinger]

Will, thank you very much.

[Will Sommer]

Thanks for having me.

[Michael Olinger]

Will Sommer is a senior reporter at the Bulwark. Coming up with the story of one station and one man tells us about shortwave radio in the Internet era. This is on the media.

[Tanner Campbell]

WNYC Studios is supported by Ground News. Ground News is a platform that makes it easy to compare news organizations and break free from algorithms. With Ground News, you get details about the source of your information, empowering you to compare how different news sources from around the world cover the same story. With over 9 and a half thousand 5 star reviews of their app and website, Ground News is a top platform that allows you to discover how any news story is being covered, giving every perspective all in one place. Expand your view of the news. Sign up for your Ground News account today and get access to the mobile app, website, browser extension and exclusive newsletters so you can have a well rounded view of the world. Think critically about what you read and find common ground between perspectives. Go to groundnews.com wnyctoday to get 40% off the ground News Vantage Plan and get access to all of their news analysis features. That's groundnews.com WNYC for 40% off the ground News Vantage Plan for a limited time only.

[Katie Thornton]

On the Media is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary on how you buy.

[Ira Flatow]

Ever wonder whether Stoicism is actually as terrible as all those red pilled bros on TikTok make it seem? I'm Tanner Campbell, American philosopher of Stoicism and host of the Practical Stoicism podcast and I'm here to tell you that thankfully those bros couldn't tell the difference between their you know what's and a hole in the ground, let alone teach anyone anything about any proper philosophy. Stoicism is an ancient Greek virtue ethics philosophy all about developing a morally just character and you can learn more about it by listening to my podcast Practical Stoicism. Search for it today in your podcast player of choice and give it a go. I'm certain you'll find it, at the very least, informative.

[Michael Olinger]

This is on the Media. I'm Michael Olinger. If you've been following along for the past couple of weeks, you know that we've been airing the second season of our award winning series, the Divided Dial, hosted by Katie Thornton. This season it's all about the short waves, the way less listened to but way farther reaching cousin of AM&FM radio. Episodes 1 and 2 delved into the history of the medium. This week's installment brings us up to the present day, but the story starts almost 40 years ago. Here's Katie.

[Pam Bondi]

It was July of 1987 on a hot muggy Thursday in New York City. Temperatures had been climbing into the 90s all week and as people all over the city ran, fans in their windows wrapped wet towels around their necks and hit the beach. A 34 year old man named Alan Weiner from Yonkers was out on the water on a ship, a 200 foot long freighter.

[Alan Weiner]

And it's not a gleaming clipper ship, but a broken down bucket which has drawn the attention of the federal government.

[Pam Bondi]

It drew the Fed's Attention. Because of what was happening on board.

[Alan Weiner]

There's a new rock station in town. Well, not really in town, really in the water. And it may be illegal.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen was a tech savvy hippie with round glasses and a long bowl cut in the style of Johnny Ramone. And together with his comrades, Allen had launched a pirate radio station.

[Alan Weiner]

The only people that have radio stations in New York are gigantic corporations. This is the only other way to do it, especially if you don't have much coin.

[Pam Bondi]

This was not Alan Weiner's first time hijacking the airwaves. He'd been illegally broadcasting for half his life. First getting a knock on the door from the FCC when he was just a teenager. But this was by far his most ambitious effort.

[Alan Weiner]

Radio New York International they call themselves, with a rock and roll accent and.

[Pam Bondi]

A pacifist beat, with the stated goal of spreading peace, love and understanding and some good old American rock music. Radio New York International broadcast for listeners up and down the east coast and artists sent in records for them to play on the air.

[Alan Weiner]

All right, that's the Ramones here at rnel. Jeffrey.

[Pam Bondi]

As for the news media, they pulled out all the stops to cover the story.

[Alan Weiner]

Channel 5 News has spared no expense in tracking down these pirates. We've added this vessel to our investigative fleet. It's a duplicate of the one used on Miami Vice. With us is our Captain, Fred Shaw. Fred.

[Pam Bondi]

From their first broadcast, Radio New York International taunted the Federal Communications Commission, kicking off their transmission with a topical song from the 1960s. But after only four broadcast days, just as Allen and his first mate were starting to get their sea legs.

[Alan Weiner]

Good evening. Some defiant DJs who wanted to thumb their noses at Washington have instead gotten an FCC fist in the face.

[Pam Bondi]

Federal agents did come on down to their boat.

[Alan Weiner]

Shortly before 5:30 this morning, the Coast Guard and FCC engineers moved in. The FCC dismantled the radio equipment and the Coast Guard arrested the two RNI staffers on board. Ivan Rothstein and Alan Weiner.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen was incensed as they took him off the ship in bracelets.

[Alan Weiner]

We weren't breaking any laws whatsoever. We feel we were completely illegal station and now free, you know, free form. Rock and roll has been stuffed out.

[Pam Bondi]

They had anchored the boat just over four miles off the coast of Long island, which, per Allen's interpretation of the law, was international waters. But the government said that international waters started much further out.

[Alan Weiner]

Wiener and another man have now been charged with illegally broadcasting rock and roll music and peace chatter.

[Pam Bondi]

Radio New York International was dead.

[Alan Weiner]

The men who wanted your ears were chained, taken away, and could spend years in jail. You know how many robberies there were in this town last year? Murders, burglaries. But two pirate DJs won't bother you anymore.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen ended up avoiding jail time for this stunt, in part thanks to the ACLU coming to his defense. But after years of trying to skirt around the fcc, this arrest did change something for Allen. It made him realize that if he wanted to get on the air for good, he'd have to go legit. Allen set out to get his own licensed station. The FCC dragged its feet for years, saying in the official record that it didn't want to give a license to Captain Hook. But in the late 1990s, what many people in the radio business considered to be the impossible happened. Alan the pirate won. And in 1998, he launched WBCQ.

[Alan Weiner]

The free speech sound heard the whole world round. WBCQ, you're on the planet.

[Pam Bondi]

It wasn't in the coveted corporatized market of New York City. It was in the 800 person blink and you'll miss it. Town of Monticello in far northern Maine. That was all right though, because Alan wasn't going for a local audience. He was going to use the short waves to bring the freeform peace and love mission of his pirate ship out to the world. This is season two of the Divided Dial from On the Media. I'm your host, Katie Thornton. This season is all about shortwave radio. How it went from a utopian experiment in global communication to a tool of government and far right propaganda. And what a little known battle playing out on the shortwaves today means for the future of our public airwaves. This episode, the story of one station and one man that tells us a lot about shortwave in the Internet era. Last episode we learned how shortwave took a hit when the Internet came around, lots of stations closed, but WBCQ was just getting started. Today, it's one of the highest powered privately owned broadcasting facilities on earth. So how did Alan Weiner pull it off? The answer has to do with an absolutely giant antenna that reaches every continent. And how that antenna came to be up there in rural Maine and what it broadcasts. That was one of the most unexpected stories I dug up on my journey into the short waves. Because at WBCQ today, it's not all peace and love, man. Far from it.

[Alan Weiner]

Hello?

[Pam Bondi]

Early last year, I reached out to Alan Weiner. Hi Alan, it's Katie calling.

[Alan Weiner]

Hello, Katie.

[Pam Bondi]

And he mentioned that he and some of his engineering buddies would be gathering for Last April's solar eclipse, which happened to pass directly over wbcq. Offhandedly, he invited me along.

[Alan Weiner]

Yeah, sure, come on up. You can't miss the station. It's got a ginormous antenna.

[Pam Bondi]

Other than a friend of mine who told me about the station, no one I knew had ever even heard of wbcq. And I know a lot of radio freaks. I really wanted to know more, so I took Alan up on his offer. One mile ahead, two miles ahead and one mile right. So if I look north, northeast, I should see the tower.

[Tanner Campbell]

Turn right onto Britain Road.

[Pam Bondi]

Okay.

[Ira Flatow]

Holy.

[Pam Bondi]

Well, he was not lying when he said you can't miss it. One of, if not the most powerful commercial broadcast stations in the world. No one's ever heard of it. No one even knows it's here. And I am closing in on it.

[Alan Weiner]

Now. During totality, I'll remove the solar filter from the telescope. You can look at it in totality without the filter.

[Pam Bondi]

When I arrived at the station, Alan was there with his wife Angela, some friends, a farmer neighbor and the station's engineer. They were warm and friendly. They'd lugged an assortment of wooden and plastic chairs out to the station's small parking lot and had an extra ready for me. They offered me sunscreen and eclipse proof glasses.

[Alan Weiner]

We got 55.

[Pam Bondi]

It was brisk. There was snow on the ground, but the skies were this perfect blue.

[Alan Weiner]

Three minutes. Oh, there's barely anything left. It's a pinhole sun. Yeah, pinhole. Rest in peace, Chris Cornell. What a beautiful man.

[Pam Bondi]

At one point, as it started to get darker, the automatic floodlights came on in the parking lot where we sat.

[Alan Weiner]

Oh, look, the lights just come on. Yeah, turn them off, would you? Oops.

[Pam Bondi]

That was the sound of a station employee's handgun falling to the ground out of his back pocket when he got up to turn the lights off. This is it. This is it. One of the guys who came up for the big event was named Tim. He has a long running weekly show in WBCQ playing mostly rock and roll, sprinkled in with some funny skits and stories. Like Alan, he had long gray hair, though Tim's was notably more unkempt. And also, like Alan, Tim got his start in pirate radio a long time ago.

[Alan Weiner]

I was with my buddy and thought, hey, why not? Each of us popped a tab of acid. You know, we're starting to trip our brains off. So I ran next door and I grabbed a bunch of records and other stuff and a reel to reel. Tape machine and patch cables broadcasted on shortwave. I called it Radio Timtron Worldwide. It was just a goof.

[Pam Bondi]

Another friend of Alan's had been an engineer at the US based Christian Science Monitor shortwave station, which used to broadcast news and information to Eastern Europe during the Cold War.

[Alan Weiner]

When the Berlin Wall came down, we got quite a few letters in thanking us for broadcasting. Makes me feel like I helped tear down the Berlin Wall.

[Pam Bondi]

At wbcq, I got the full range of Shortwaver's aspirations. Some of them wanted to use the power of this megaphone to promote democracy, others just to have a little fun. But for the time being, our focus was elsewhere, on the sky and the sun and the moon that was rapidly stepping into its. Finally, the moment we'd been waiting for was here. And it was breathtaking.

[Alan Weiner]

You can look at it.

[Pam Bondi]

Oh my God. Look at that.

[Alan Weiner]

The eye of God. How cool is that?

[Michael Olinger]

That is it. I believe you can see the star.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, it looks like John Bonham's bass drum insignia.

[Pam Bondi]

Yep, the morning after the eclipse. Just woke up in the back of the minivan in the Walmart parking lot here in Halton. I don't know if you all know this about solar eclipses, but it's impossible to find a cheap hotel. It's impossible to find any hotel, especially all the way up here, 12 miles past the northern terminus of Interstate 95, which runs from Maine to Florida. I knew all this going into the trip and I'd booked an RV with a heater, but it canceled on me at the last minute. So I rented a minivan from some guy in Boston and threw an air mattress in the back. It was like 20 degrees last night. It was really cold. Made it though. I decided to go back to WBCQ because something wasn't adding up. During the eclipse, we sat in the shadow of this huge, shiny new antenna. But elsewhere on the property, radio equipment clanked away inside various trailers and falling down shacks. There were lots of old school buses and World War II era radar devices. Alan told me he uses them to search the skies for extraterrestrial life. A massive anti aircraft gun was parked at one of the station's driveways. That big new antenna was just so out of place with the rest of the station. I wanted to know how it all came to be. So Alan and I chatted as he showed me around.

[Alan Weiner]

We're a free speech radio station on shortwave and we lease airtime to anyone. And we're all charging 50 bucks an hour. Yeah, and that's what we were charging when we went on the air from.

[Pam Bondi]

The time WBCQ launched in 1998, anyone could buy airtime. Buy an hour every month, every week, every day you pay. Alan will beam it out. And that $50 an hour rate, it's kind of insanely affordable. For reference, I used to work at a small community radio station that charged $50 for a 30 second underwriting announcement. You know, those programming is supported by messages you hear. When WBCQ started, the exodus from shortwave was well underway. About a fifth of Americans were already on the Internet. But despite that, there was still demand for affordable airtime. So WBCQ started adding more frequencies. This was all happening before they got the big new antenna, but the station could still reach pretty far. South America, even Antarctica. Folks bought airtime to play niche music shows, classic rock, deep cuts, even old wax cylinders and 78s. But as Alan quickly discovered, when you advertise yourself as a haven for free speech on a medium that was already home to militia leaders and extremists, that's who shows up.

[Alan Weiner]

The American Nazi Party. Do you know they were one of the first people to sign up with us? They came to us. Oh, free speech right on the air. I said, yep, no problem.

[Pam Bondi]

Alan's father was Jewish, and Alan was mostly raised Jewish, though his mother was Roman Catholic. But Allen thought of himself as a free thinker, a First Amendment warrior, and having Nazis as paying customers posed no ethical dilemmas for him, at least not at first.

[Alan Weiner]

We had a programmer that kept getting on the air and telling people to go out and kill the Jews. And I kept calling him up and going, look, you can't encourage people to go out and kill people. You know, if that happens, you're going to go to jail. I'm going to go to jail, because, you know, we'd be complicit and you can't do this. They wouldn't listen. Even my father heard that.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen's father did not like tuning in and hearing Nazis.

[Alan Weiner]

He called, he says, son, what are you. Yeah, I know, I know, I'm gonna fix it.

[Pam Bondi]

After multiple warnings about the Nazis, explicit calls for violence, Allen polled the broadcast citing the station's self imposed hate speech.

[Alan Weiner]

Policy, which basically says, if you get on the air and encourage people to go out and hurt and harm other people, we're going to give you a warning. We're going to say, don't do that. And if they don't.

[Pam Bondi]

The Nazi show was called American Dissident Voices. And when Allen cut it, it caused a stir deep in the archives of one popular short wave show. I Found a call in that dealt with the cancellation head on.

[Alan Weiner]

We're talking about American dissident voices being booted off of wbcq.

[Pam Bondi]

The host was Bill Cooper. He was a hugely influential thought leader in the conspiracy and militia movements of the 90s. We heard some of his show on the last episode.

[Alan Weiner]

Good evening. You're on the air. Yeah, this is Mike in South Florida. Good evening, Bill. Hi, Mike. I don't agree with a person of WBCQ because he became judge and jury with no due process. If the radio station makes a claim that they will broadcast anybody's opinion, they should honor that promise. I lost a lot of respect for Al Wiener by him not honoring his promise. In Alan Weiner's case, he simply pulled the plug. Yeah, he. Sure. And he did that.

[Pam Bondi]

And then.

[Will Sommer]

Good evening.

[Alan Weiner]

You're on the air. Hi, Bill. It's Alan Weiner.

[Pam Bondi]

Alan called in.

[Alan Weiner]

Hi, Alan. Well, you know, I think a lot of people out there are glad you called. I hope you understand this is not.

[Pam Bondi]

Alan told listeners that he alone was responsible for the decision, but that axing the show violated every principle he held.

[Alan Weiner]

Dear, that everyone has a right to speak on the radio and everyone should be given that right. However, I did change the way I felt on that one specific program because I did get some input from a lot of other people. And the day I decided to pull it off, I knew it was a no win situation. And to all the listeners out there that hold me to my principles of allowing all voices on the air, I apologize and I am sorry. But in this one instance, and I plan to make it the last instance, I had to do it.

[Pam Bondi]

Alan did indeed make it the last instance. Hate groups kept coming to wbcq and Alan kept selling them airtime.

[Alan Weiner]

The KKK contacted us.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen told me about this on my.

[Alan Weiner]

Visit, and they were really pleasant and nice, and I said, sure, we'll put you on the air. And they were very, very impressed.

[Pam Bondi]

Maybe it was his own crystallizing free speech absolutism, or maybe it was the fact that it didn't take long for WBCQ to start feeling the economic squeeze of the Internet era. But Allen was quickly entering the business of shortwave extremism. Within a few years of launching, he welcomed a guy named Hal Turner, who used the short waves to call for violence.

[Alan Weiner]

I advocate shooting and killing these Mexicans as they cross the border.

[Pam Bondi]

Turner also called for the murder of Jews, black Americans, LGBTQ people, and politicians.

[Alan Weiner]

We don't want to have to kill you. We hope to not have to Kill you. But we can kill you. And if need be, we will kill you.

[Pam Bondi]

Hal Turner first made a name for himself as a frequent caller to Sean Hannity's show on the big AM station WABC in New York. But Howe went to shortwave because he felt AM&FM conservative talk had grown soft. On shortwave, he said whatever he wanted.

[Alan Weiner]

There are approaching on the horizon situations where killing elected officials may be necessary. Well, what are a few lives in the grand scheme of liberty? Not a big deal.

[Pam Bondi]

But Allen's assortment of extremist talk shows and the occasional esoteric music program was far from a cash cash. Allen needed people to buy more time. He offered big discounts for hosts who bought airtime in bulk. A few, including Hal Turner, came to buy several hours, most every day. At one point Allen was even in.

[Alan Weiner]

Talks with Radio Sputnik and they almost.

[Pam Bondi]

Leased one of our transmitters to take a whole frequency. 24 7. Yeah. What happened with those Radio Sputnik conversations?

[Alan Weiner]

They decided not to ago. I don't know why because we really made them a good deal and we can see we can get people on.

[Pam Bondi]

One man did have around the clock presence on one of WBCQ's frequencies. His name was Ralph Gordon Stair, also known as rg, also known as Brother Stair.

[Alan Weiner]

And I don't believe there's a man on the face of the earth that is higher in spiritual authority in the kingdom of God than I am. I don't believe that.

[Pam Bondi]

Stair was a self proclaimed prophet who preached an ultra conservative, homophobic and misogynistic Christian ideology. He bought airtime on other Shore Wave stations too. And he didn't just use his show to preach, he also used it to recruit listeners from as far away as New Zealand to live with him on his farm in South Carolina. At the farm, the men wore long beards and the women always wore full coverage skirt and had their hair in tightly wound buns. People who visited have said that there were radios and loudspeakers set up in every one of the compound's buildings and on the fields so that followers would hear Stairs preaching even as they worked his land. Stairs flock took a pledge of poverty when they joined, giving their money to his Overcomer ministry, the Overcomer radio broadcast. At one point, stair was spending $100,000 thousand dollars a month on short wave and local radio broadcasts heard around the.

[Alan Weiner]

World seven days a week, 24 hours.

[Pam Bondi]

In 2017, video surfaced of stair molesting a 12 year old girl during a sermon. More women came forward with reports of abuse stories and court cases. From years prior came to light, alleging everything from fraud to the improper burial of babies who died, apparently after Stair encouraged mothers to forego modern medical care in favor of faith healing.

[Michael Olinger]

You're dealing with a doctor. He won't tell you the truth.

[Pam Bondi]

You better get away from him. Multiple people who escaped the Overcomer ministry said RG Stair was running a cult deal with truth.

[Alan Weiner]

It's this deceit, this lying, this half truth.

[Pam Bondi]

Thanks to survivors who spoke out, the FBI and local law enforcement investigated Stair, and later that year they raided the farm.

[Will Sommer]

More victims brought their stories to police.

[Michael Olinger]

Stair facing more charges of criminal sexual.

[Alan Weiner]

Conduct, this time many involving children.

[Pam Bondi]

Stair's show was dropped from a bunch of local stations, but in Allen and his wife Angela's eyes, he still had a right to the airwaves. And yeah, Stair bought lots of time on wbcq, but it wasn't like he was making the station rich. Allen still couldn't always afford to repair or maintain equipment. He'd let go of staff.

[Alan Weiner]

You know, the 50 bucks we get here and there, you know that doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't.

[Pam Bondi]

For WBCQ and a lot of shortwave stations that survived into the Internet era, this was the play offering a megaphone to religious extremists and the far right while still barely scraping by. But in 2018, everything changed at WBCQ. Coming up, Alan gets a huge leg up and that powerful new antenna from an unexpected source. This is season two of the Divided Dial from On the Media.

[Katie Thornton]

On the Media is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary on how you buy.

[Ira Flatow]

Ever wonder whether stoicism is actually as terrible as all those red pilled bros on TikTok make it seem? I'm Tanner Campbell, American philosopher of stoicism and host of the Practical Stoicism podcast and I'm here to tell you that thankfully those bros couldn't tell the difference between their you know what's and a hole in the ground, let alone teach anyone anything about any proper philosophy. Stoicism is an ancient Greek virtue ethics philosophy all about developing a morally just character. And you can learn more about it by listening to my podcast, Practical Stoicism. Search for it today in your podcast player of choice and give it a go. I'm certain you'll find it at the very least informative.

[Pam Bondi]

This is the divided dial from on the Media. I'm Katie Thornton. Right before the break, I was telling you about how WBCQ was struggling financially. But in 2018, that all changed.

[Alan Weiner]

That summer was great.

[Pam Bondi]

WBCQ got a many million dollar cash injection and that massive new antenna, it can pump out 500 kilowatts of power, 10 times as much as WBCQ's other signals. The town's electric system wasn't even powerful enough to support it. So Allen offered to split the cost of rewiring with the local government.

[Alan Weiner]

They're rewiring the town. You know, I'd walk into the town office. Well, thank you. You know, we're getting all new power, you know, here for business and stuff. Thank you so much, you know, you know, you're welcome, you're welcome.

[Pam Bondi]

The antenna weighs 200 tons and is gigantic at its base, like one of those redwood trees that you can drive through. Except the electromagnetic frequencies this beast emits are known to jam up cars, computer systems and stall them out so you can't drive even near it. To anchor the antenna, they had to get a host of cement trucks to come in and put a footing down. 40 by 40ft wide and 12 solid feet deep. The antenna is fully rotatable, sitting on a gargantuan ring bearing that can be turned to point in any direction, beaming shortwave radio signals to any continent on earth.

[Alan Weiner]

Oh, I hear the motors.

[Pam Bondi]

There it goes.

[Alan Weiner]

Oh, there it goes. There it goes. Quite something. That was wild.

[Pam Bondi]

Oh my goodness. It's like watching a skyscraper spin.

[Alan Weiner]

Yeah, but listen to it. It's like a fine watch. They're going to the UK now. I think this is the only privately owned 500 kilowatt in the world because most of the 500 kilowatt that I know are either owned by the Catholic Church, the Vatican or governments. By the time we got done with it, it cost about $8 million. Was it 8 million? Yeah, I think it was 8 million.

[Pam Bondi]

Wow. When the windfall came, WBCQ also got a bespoke new studio and transmitter building outfitted with an apartment for a live in engineer. People in the shortwave world had one who paid for this. I mean, how did WBCQ, with their transmitters in falling down shacks and broadcast studio in a single wide trailer, become a swanky world class, enormously high powered shortwave station? It turns out Allen's new backer was a group called World's Last Chance.

[Tanner Campbell]

This is WBCQ bringing World's Last Chance.

[Alan Weiner]

Radio to you From Monticello, Maine, usa.

[Pam Bondi]

They're an ultra conservative Christian End Times ministry. And they preach, among other things, things that the earth is flat.

[Alan Weiner]

We are talking flat earth and the Bible. The earth is flat and God tells you so.

[Pam Bondi]

World's Last Chance was started in 2004 by an Egyptian cosmetics and food magnate turned religious leader named Galal Das. At first, even Alan didn't think World's Last Chance was on the level.

[Alan Weiner]

They came to us, but they wanted Superpower. We really want to be with your station because you're free speech. I said, well we can get you on the air. It's 50 kilowatts, blah blah blah. I said, no, we don't want that. We want more power. I said, well, how much more power? You know, at least 500,000 watts. I said, we'd have to build that and you know, we'd have to charge you for it and all that, you know, I mean, that's millions of dollars, you know, I mean, they said, fine. Well that afternoon they wired me $30,000. I said, okay. These people are serious.

[Pam Bondi]

Some of what the ministry preaches is just downright strange or really in the weeds about doctrine, cosmologies and cosmogonies.

[Alan Weiner]

Scholars have always known the truth, but it's been hidden for a while.

[Pam Bondi]

World's Last Chance believed that Pope John Paul II was going to come back as the Antichrist.

[Michael Olinger]

Shocking truth emerges.

[Pam Bondi]

They also follow a strange combination. Lunar solar calendar, not the Gregorian. So their sabbath falls on different days from week to week.

[Alan Weiner]

That Yahushua could not have been crucified on a Friday and most certainly was not resurrected on a Sunday. So we've got a conundrum.

[Pam Bondi]

In 2018, they took out full page text only ads in places like People magazine and USA Today saying demons were going to come to Earth disguised as aliens to deceive Christians. But other things they broadcast have more clear overlap with the conspiratorial right. They are staunchly anti establishment, especially since COVID Well, let's be honest, I mean.

[Alan Weiner]

We shouldn't be surprised that the church has failed to stand up to government dictates. I mean, the closer we get to the end, the more the fallen churches will spout the serpent's agenda.

[Pam Bondi]

And they even link their flat earth beliefs not just to extreme biblical literalism, but to their anti globalist agenda.

[Alan Weiner]

The only kind of circumnavigation which could not happen on a flat earth is north southbound. Both the North Pole and Antarctica are military enforced. No fly and no sail zones due to restrictions originating from none other than the United Nations.

[Pam Bondi]

World's Last Chance is very dubious. But it's not exactly a culture. Though they do sometimes encourage their members to quit their jobs to dedicate themselves to the ministry. They don't appear to take money from their followers. They've never had what they refer to as an earthly headquarters, as in no sketchy farm. They say their members are spread literally over the four corners of the world. They bill themselves as a web based ministry and they have this janky website that looks straight out at the early Internet. We're talking retro futuristic graphics and pictorial backdrops with text, heavy blocks and a left hand column of like 40 hyperlinks. But if World's Last Chance's website is less than convincing, their shortwave radio broadcast is top tier. It's super listenable, well produced and among the slickest broadcasts on American shortwave today. Alan will be the first to tell you it's the religious programming that pays the bills. World's Last Chance as doomsday ministering is the key to it all. The ministry's payments more or less bankroll WBCQ's original operation. All the other frequencies with the free speech programs that still roll in at 50 bucks a pop.

[Alan Weiner]

Well, all right, what's on the air now? This is on the air. That's on the air. Radio Trump International is on the air. And you know the polls came out.

[Pam Bondi]

Radio Trump International was one of Allen and Angela's shows which they ran leading up to the 2024 election.

[Alan Weiner]

We're Trump supporters, we are. And we've decided to take one of our channels, 5130 and we broadcast Radio Trump International 24 hours a day because we can.

[Pam Bondi]

Having a backer like World's Last Chance has also made it easier for Allen to keep broadcasting people like Brother RG Stair, a man he and Angela came to consider a friend.

[Alan Weiner]

What the government did to the beautiful people at the Overcomer, they raided the place like it was a ruby ridge.

[Pam Bondi]

Allen and Angela told me they don't believe the well documented allegations of sexual assault.

[Alan Weiner]

A bunch of farmers, a bunch of cattle raising, goat raising, Christian people, you know, tilling the soil. And they pretty much went in there and terrorized everyone.

[Pam Bondi]

Stair is dead now. He died in 2021 while awaiting trial. But his followers still live at the compound and they still send the preacher's reruns to Allen to broadcast around the world all day, every day.

[Alan Weiner]

Brother Star, he helped us keep BCQ on the air expand and I always promised that we would keep him on the Air, no matter what, even if they didn't have money.

[Pam Bondi]

Alan knows that a lot of people would have considered him liberal in his early years. He knows that in some people's eyes, he's made a shocking transformation from his days as a peacenik rock and roll pirate. For Alan's part, he says that his philosophy is the same today as it's always been, that people need to hear even the most hateful speech so that they can understand it and resist it.

[Alan Weiner]

My political science professor used to say that if you let things fester in the dark, they will fester and grow. But if you shine the light on them, the light will help expunge it and bring it out so people can say, hey, this is wrong. We don't agree with this. You know, you shouldn't do this.

[Pam Bondi]

Were you all concerned about having those voices on the air, that it could lead to harm?

[Alan Weiner]

Well, we were, but we felt people need to have a right to know. You know, I mean, it's shedding light, you know, I mean, you really got to shed the light.

[Pam Bondi]

But I don't think that whole shedding the light thing really worked. Several of the hosts Allen has been running on WBCQ since the early days are still spewing racist, violent rhetoric like Hal Turner. Even though Allen says that Hal's toned it down since his days advocating that people kill immigrants, Hal's still on WBCQ five days a week. And anyway, Allen says Hal's show gets you thinking.

[Alan Weiner]

He gets you thinking without being specific.

[Pam Bondi]

Here's Alan with Angela on their radio show just last month, recycling tired critiques of rap music.

[Alan Weiner]

There are some cultures, and maybe even races that are steeped in violence and proud of it.

[Pam Bondi]

The kind of music, I believe it makes people angry.

[Alan Weiner]

I mean, free speech, peace, love, and understanding. You know, we talk about the understanding. It's gone too damn far.

[Pam Bondi]

Whoops. Too, too far.

[Alan Weiner]

Too far. It has the understanding just gone too far? Because everything in the world except for the love of God.

[Pam Bondi]

In some ways, Allen's transformation is not that remarkable. There are plenty of hippies who aged into libertarians or right wingers, and it's not surprising that a lot of these guys use speech as a cover for people to say whatever they want without any regard for truth or for consequences. To me, though, the remarkable part of Allen's story is that with shortwave, he's been able to get these hateful voices out to the far reaches of the globe. No board, no meaningful oversight from the fcc, just him at his discretion, thanks in part to Alan Weiner, the demonstrably false, fatalistic and paranoid programming of World's Last Chance. The hateful rhetoric of Hal Turner, the cultist preachings of RG Stair. That's a huge part of what shortwave listeners around the world hear as the voice of American broadcasting. And people are hearing this stuff almost every day. Alan gets letters or emails from listeners around the country and, and around the planet.

[Alan Weiner]

Just got one from China, came in this morning. Yeah, on, on email. They, they picked up the station. They really like the programming.

[Pam Bondi]

Wow. So this one came in from Australia. Dear Sir, Madam, Hope you had a nice Christmas holiday this year. I have Christmas alone, but listen to your program makes me happy.

[Alan Weiner]

From Antwerp. Network signal was nice and clear.

[Pam Bondi]

They have New York, Philadelphia, Australia.

[Alan Weiner]

Got a bunch of Russian listeners too. And here's one from Buffalo, New York in Antarctica at the Scientific. Dear sir on Saturday, September 23rd.

[Pam Bondi]

And people are still coming to Allen for a platform too. Within an hour of me first arriving at wbcq, Ellen's phone rang nowhere.

[Alan Weiner]

So we, we, we pay attention to lightning.

[Pam Bondi]

Yeah, okay, here, go ahead.

[Alan Weiner]

Hello?

[Pam Bondi]

As he disappeared out the door, I could hear Alan explaining his simple, well worn policy to the shortwave curious caller. Free Speech Radio. Yeah, we'll get you on the air. It's 50 bucks an hour. WBCQ is just one station. There are about a dozen privately run shortwave stations operating out of the US today. And there are almost all owned or operated by religious groups, mostly the Christian right. There's one station out of Tennessee that seems to still mostly play sermons by Pete Peters. He was the white supremacist preacher you heard last episode who helped bring together the far reaches of the right in the 1990s. Like RG Stair. He's dead now too, though you wouldn't know it on shortwave. But while these fanatical voices might be some of the loudest on shortwave radio, today there are at least some shortwave listeners who want something else. We know because we asked hello to.

[Michael Olinger]

The people at wnyc.

[Pam Bondi]

For several months we've been running this show on the media on wrmi. It's a shortwave station out of Florida and one of the few that isn't owned by a religious group. And in the breaks we. We've been asking people to get in touch to tell us about their shortwave experience.

[Alan Weiner]

As a little boy, I'd often run in and tell my mom and dad about something that they didn't read about until the next day in the paper when it broke. I was a Peace Corps volunteer, first.

[Katie Thornton]

In Micronesia, then in Sri Lanka.

[Alan Weiner]

I listened to shortwave radio doing both.

[Katie Thornton]

Tours and I have listened to shortwave radio ever since.

[Michael Olinger]

There's something about tuning the through static and landing on real broadcasts from halfway across the world.

[Alan Weiner]

It just feels cool.

[Pam Bondi]

We did get emails from people all over the world, but for the most part the voicemails we received were from North Americans. And over and over again they told us the same thing. Shortwave is a way to get out of your media bubble, to get out of the US and western centric news cycle.

[Michael Olinger]

It's a way to stay connected to the world, hear different perspectives.

[Alan Weiner]

I regularly listen to Radio Dabanga out of Sudan.

[Michael Olinger]

I love shortwave because of what it offers to people.

[Alan Weiner]

The ability to freely access information no.

[Pam Bondi]

Matter where you are in the world. And often they said the broadcasts they hear most don't represent what they love about the medium.

[Alan Weiner]

So what do you have today? Mostly you've got a lot of religion. Unfortunately today on short wave radio I feel just too much religious programming these days. It falls into two categories, Christian preaching and far right political talk radio type programming. I don't really like any of that.

[Michael Olinger]

Thank you for broadcasting your program.

[Ira Flatow]

I did enjoy listening to your program.

[Alan Weiner]

A couple evenings ago. That's the kind of content we need today on radio, period, let alone shortwave radio. There's been a welcome change of content versus the typical release religion and talk.

[Ira Flatow]

Radio that you hear on shortwave.

[Alan Weiner]

You have the freedom to do that, but you know, we don't have a lot of cultural programming anymore on shortwave radio.

[Michael Olinger]

I don't always agree with your political views, but I still thought it was a very, very cool thing to find you guys. In fact, it made me appreciate the whole thing even more.

[Pam Bondi]

Next time on the Divided Dial. It turns out on these hollowed out frequencies, pirate broadcasters have been hijacking the airwaves in droves with a more idealistic vision for shortwave. But that vision is getting pushback from a very unlikely source. Not the Federal Communications Commission, but a handful of finance bros who want to wrestle the airwaves away from the public.

[Alan Weiner]

Who would have thought that shortwave is now fabulously valuable to Wall Street? The fact is, now Wall street is deeply invested in it. And so the question what is the FCC going to do about all of this?

[Pam Bondi]

On the final episode of this season, it's the battle playing out right now for our short waves between the pirates and the profiteers. The Divided Dial is written and reported by me, Katie Thornton, and edited by OTM's executive producer, Katya Rogers. Music and sound design is by Jared Paul. Jennifer Munson is our technical director. Fact checking by Graham Hacha this series is made possible in part with support from the Fund for Investigative Journalism. Special thanks this week to documentarian Joe Lewis for talking with us about his time at the Overcomer. And special thanks, enormous thanks to everyone who responded to our call out on wrmi. It was great to hear back from the shore waves. We'll catch you next week.

[Michael Olinger]

On the Media is produced by Molly Rosen, Rebecca Clark Callender and Candice Wong. Eloise Blondio is our senior producer. On the Media is a production of WNYC Studios. Brooke Gladstone will be back soon, we promise. I'm Michael Oinger. Hey, it's Micah. If you've been enjoying the Divided Dial series as much as we have, come join us in New York on June 11 for a very cool, very low key live show that I'll be doing with Katie Thornton. We'll hear about the crazy lengths Katie went to to bring these stories to life and we'll talk about what our role is in keeping the public airwaves public. The event is on June 11th in New York. You can find more [e-mail] events and in the show notes for today's podcast. Come and nerd out with us on all things radio. It's going to be really fun.

[Pam Bondi]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science.

[Alan Weiner]

And technology news, making science fun for.

[Pam Bondi]

Curious people by covering everything from the.

[Alan Weiner]

Outer reaches of space to the rapidly.

[Pam Bondi]

Changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with.

[Alan Weiner]

Important news they won't get anywhere else.

[Pam Bondi]

And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect.

[Alan Weiner]

For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.