Investigating Russia's War Crimes Against Ukrainian Children

Summary

On the Media Podcast Summary: "Investigating Russia's War Crimes Against Ukrainian Children"

Release Date: July 26, 2023
Hosts: Brooke Gladstone and Deborah Amos
Podcast: On the Media, WNYC Studios

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Introduction

In this poignant episode of On the Media, host Brooke Gladstone teams up with veteran correspondent Deborah Amos to delve into the harrowing issue of Russia's alleged war crimes against Ukrainian children. The discussion centers around the International Criminal Court's (ICC) groundbreaking arrest warrant against Russian President Vladimir Putin and the extensive research conducted by Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab uncovering the systematic deportation and indoctrination of Ukrainian children.

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ICC Issues First Arrest Warrant Against Putin

Brooke Gladstone opens the conversation by highlighting a significant development in international justice:

"In March, the International Criminal Court took the first step toward holding Vladimir Putin accountable for some of the atrocities committed by his special operation in Ukraine."
— Brooke Gladstone [00:24]

Deborah Amos elaborates on the ICC's action:

"In a statement, the court held Putin directly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation and the transfer of children from occupied areas of Ukraine to Russia."
— Deborah Amos [00:42]

This arrest warrant marks the first official legal action against Putin in relation to the ongoing invasion, a milestone in the pursuit of accountability for war crimes.

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Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab: Unearthing Evidence

The podcast delves into the meticulous work done by Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab:

"Researchers at Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab have been unearthing direct evidence of these alleged war crimes for months now in partnership with the U.S. Department of State."
— Brooke Gladstone [01:16]

Nathaniel Raymond, head of the lab, discusses their operational challenges:

"Though we may be here at Yale, in reality we are inside the Ukrainian cyberspace that's part of this war."
— Nathaniel Raymond [02:39]

Amidst cyber threats aimed at disrupting their work, the dedicated team of 20 researchers operates like a "cyber cop shop," meticulously collecting and verifying digital evidence.

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Unveiling the Deportation and Indoctrination of Ukrainian Children

The crux of the episode focuses on the disturbing findings of the Yale report, which documents a systematic Russian program targeting Ukrainian children:

"The age category range from infants and toddlers to 18-year-olds."
— Deborah Amos [03:12]

Caitlin Howarth, Operations Director at the lab, provides vivid insights:

"What we are seeing is the government of Russia and Russian leaders training and indoctrinating a generation of Ukrainian children."
— Caitlin Howarth [03:52]

Key points from the report include:

• Number of Camps: Verification of at least 43 camps where Ukrainian children are detained.
• Activities Within Camps: Practices range from weapons training for older children to adoption by Russian families for the youngest, alongside daily propaganda sessions.
• Government Involvement: The program is portrayed as a government-backed ecosystem rather than isolated incidents, indicating a coordinated effort across regions from Siberia to the Black Sea.

Raymond emphasizes the scale and logistical complexity of the operation:

"It shows scale, it shows chain of command, it shows logistical complexity."
— Nathaniel Raymond [04:05]

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Russian Government's Response and Propaganda Efforts

The Russian government outright denies the allegations, labeling the ICC's warrant as "meaningless." However, internal actions tell a different story. In May of the previous year, Putin issued a decree facilitating the adoption of Ukrainian children, making the process skewed in favor of Russian families:

"In May last year, Russian President Vladimir Putin issued a decree that made it quick and easy to adopt Ukrainian children next to impossible before the in addition, the government provides support for Russian families who adopt, the biggest financial incentive for adopting handicapped kids."
— Caitlin Howarth [04:17]

The synchronization of adoption policies with the onset of reported kidnappings on platforms like Telegram and VK underscores a strategic propaganda campaign aimed at normalizing the removal of Ukrainian children.

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Humanitarian and Legal Implications

The forced deportation and indoctrination of children constitute severe violations under international law:

"It is fundamentally the unconsented custody and control of thousands of Ukrainian children. So besides the criminal aspect, there's a grave humanitarian emergency here, which is kids separated from their parents, not only against the law, but against common decency."
— Nathaniel Raymond [06:28]

Only 37 Ukrainian children have been returned to their families out of the thousands documented, highlighting the persistent and unresolved nature of these humanitarian violations.

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The Role of Open-Source Investigations in Modern War Crimes Documentation

Deborah Amos underscores the transformative role of open-source investigations:

"Investigating alleged war crimes is always difficult, but these open source investigators have developed a trove of potential evidence."
— Deborah Amos [06:50]

Raymond likens their work to that of a "Law and Order" beat cop, collecting real-time digital evidence to support legal proceedings:

"Our job is to collect the evidence, what is happening on the ground that's available in digital evidence, and then how that comports or does not with the law."
— Nathaniel Raymond [07:08]

This pioneering approach allows for the immediate gathering and verification of evidence, potentially accelerating the process of international justice.

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Conclusion and Future Directions

Brooke Gladstone wraps up the episode by directing listeners to the upcoming big show, promising further updates and an in-depth exploration of international justice mechanisms:

"Deb will have an update on the kidnappings and an in-depth accounting of the twisted history of international justice."
— Brooke Gladstone [07:40]

The episode not only sheds light on the tragic plight of Ukrainian children amidst the conflict but also highlights the evolving landscape of war crimes investigation in the digital age.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Brooke Gladstone [00:24]: Introduction to ICC's steps against Putin.
• Deborah Amos [00:42]: ICC's statement on Putin's war crimes.
• Nathaniel Raymond [02:39]: The lab's position within the cyber frontlines.
• Caitlin Howarth [03:52]: Indictment of Russia's indoctrination efforts.
• Nathaniel Raymond [04:05]: Emphasis on the program's scale and organization.
• Caitlin Howarth [04:17]: Details on Putin's adoption decree and propaganda timing.
• Nathaniel Raymond [06:28]: Humanitarian and legal gravity of the situation.
• Nathaniel Raymond [07:08]: Role of the lab in evidence collection.
• Brooke Gladstone [07:40]: Teasing the upcoming detailed discussion.

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This comprehensive episode serves as a critical examination of the intersection between media, international law, and humanitarian crises, offering listeners an in-depth understanding of the mechanisms behind documenting and addressing war crimes in contemporary conflicts.

Transcript

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[Brooke Gladstone]

This is on THE Media's midweek podcast. I'm Brooke Gladstone. In March, the International Criminal Court took the first step toward holding Vladimir Putin accountable for some of the atrocities committed by his special operation in Ukraine.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

Well, there's an arrest warrant on his head.

[Deborah Amos]

In a statement, the court held Putin directly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation and the transfer of children from occupied areas of Ukraine to Russia.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's the first warrant to be levied against Putin in the course of this invasion.

[Deborah Amos]

Moscow has denied the accusations, calling the arrest warrant meaningless. The but the ICC president says the allegations are credible. The ICC is doing its part of work as a court of law.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

The judges issued arrest warrants. Their execution depends on international cooperation.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Researchers at Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab have been unearthing direct evidence of these alleged war crimes for months now in partnership with the U.S. state Department. In February, they released a report that offered evidence of more than 40, 40 child custody centers for Ukrainian children who have been deported to Russia. In February, Deborah Amos, a veteran Middle east correspondent, reported this story for NPR about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children. Deb and I will be hosting this week's big show together and we'll be going deep into the complexities of international justice. But for now, for some essential context, courtesy of npr. Here's that piece, Deb reported.

[Deborah Amos]

Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab is deep underground, a carpeted bunker beneath a campus library, a security measure, says Nathaniel Raymond, who heads the lab.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

We face complex cyber threats on a daily basis.

[Deborah Amos]

There's a corps of 20 researchers. They scour satellite imagery, social media posts, news reports, looking for patterns and connections that otherwise might go unnoticed. This is your workspace.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

Yes.

[Ira Flatow]

Hi everybody.

[Deborah Amos]

Raymond is matter of fact about the daily cyber threats from government actors, he says, who want to shut down or slow down the online research.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

Though we may be here at Yale, in reality we are inside the Ukrainian cyberspace that's part of this war.

[Deborah Amos]

And you feel that, you feel like you're on the front line.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

The sort of joke amongst the team here is that we go to work in Ukraine every day for from New.

[Deborah Amos]

Haven, their latest report documents a systematic Russian program for the re education and adoption of Ukrainian children. One of the most explosive issues of the war. The team says they've verified at least 6,000 Ukrainian children in Russia, but believe there are many more.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

The age category range from infants and toddlers to 18 year olds.

[Deborah Amos]

One team member, who can't be named to keep his research secure, explains how.

[Caitlin Howarth]

They know we have very high resolution. Commercially available satellite imagery. You can see indications of both the presence of people as well as certain types of activity. There's a very large amount of material related to the patriotic education that these kids undergo while they're in camps.

[Deborah Amos]

The report verified at least 43 camps where some older kids get weapons training, the youngest are adopted by Russian families, or all of them get a daily dose of propaganda.

[Caitlin Howarth]

What we are seeing is the government of Russia and Russian leaders training and indoctrinating a generation of Ukrainian children.

[Deborah Amos]

The Yale report is the most extensive look at the program so far, says Raymond.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

It shows scale, it shows chain of command, it shows logistical complexity.

[Deborah Amos]

And, he adds, the research shows the program is government backed.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

This is not one rogue camp. This is not one rogue mayor or governor. This is a ecosystem of holding facilities for children stretching from Siberia to the Black Sea.

[Deborah Amos]

It's a potential war crime under international treaties to remove children during a conflict or change their nationality. Russian officials don't deny Ukrainian children are in Russia, but insist the camps are part of a humanitarian program for abandoned war traumatized kids and have publicized the program for a Russian audience. Not a surprise, says Caitlin Howarth, the operations director at the lab. And I think that that is actually a really important tell about this entire story because you simply cannot move this many children through this many places and without their movements being noticed. In May last year, Russian President Vladimir Putin issued a decree that made it quick and easy to adopt Ukrainian children next to impossible before the in addition, the government provides support for Russian families who adopt, the biggest financial incentive for adopting handicapped kids. The first report on social media came just about the same time as Putin's adoption announcement, says the researcher.

[Caitlin Howarth]

I believe the first places we saw this were on Telegram and maybe vk.

[Deborah Amos]

And that's the Russian version of Facebook.

[Caitlin Howarth]

Correct. And it quickly became clear that there was an enormous amount of information publicly available.

[Deborah Amos]

For example, the group verified this online interview with a teenage boy from Ukraine. He says, I was told I'd be in this camp for two weeks, but it's been two months. Russian officials insist adoption is only permitted for Ukrainian orphans, although evidence shows some of the children have parents in Ukraine. A new law in Russia makes it harder for Ukrainian parents or close relatives to get their children back. The Yale report documents just 37 Ukrainian children returned to their families out of the thousands who are still in Russia and have not returned, says Raymond.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

It is fundamentally the unconsented custody and control of thousands of Ukrainian children. So besides the criminal aspect, there's a grave humanitarian emergency here, which is kids separated from their parents, not only against the law, but against common decency.

[Deborah Amos]

Investigating alleged war crimes is always difficult, but these open source investigators have developed a trove of potential evidence. The Yale lab team are all young Internet sleuths who work to verify the data they dig up. It's like a cop shop, says Raymond, A cyber cop shop.

[Nathaniel Raymond]

The way to think about our role in this process is like the TV show Law and Order. We are the Jerry Orbach beat cop side. Our job is to collect the evidence, what is happening on the ground that's available in digital evidence, and then how that comports or does not with the law.

[Deborah Amos]

For the first time, war crimes investigators can collect perishable evidence while war crimes are still occurring, says Raymond. It's the future of war crimes investigations happening now. Deborah Amos, NPR News, New Haven, Connecticut.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Thanks for listening to the midweek podcast on the Big show, which we'll post around dinnertime on Friday. DEB will have an update on the kidnappings and an in depth accounting of the twisted history of international justice. Check it out. I'm Brooke Gladstone.

[Ira Flatow]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.