On the Media: "Paul Offit Has Opinions About RFK Jr."

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Brooke Gladstone
Guest: Dr. Paul Offit, Director of the Vaccine Education Center, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia

Episode Overview

In this episode, Brooke Gladstone speaks with Dr. Paul Offit about recent upheavals in US vaccine policy following Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s appointment as Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). They discuss Kennedy’s sweeping changes to the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee, the rise of vaccine skepticism, and the broader implications for public health, science communication, and trust in government agencies.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. Public Trust in Vaccines at an All-Time Low

• Recent Polls: One in six parents have delayed or skipped vaccines; half lack basic faith in federal health agencies (00:24).
• Expert Concern: Health officials fear further erosion of trust under current HHS leadership.

B. RFK Jr.'s Overhaul of Vaccine Policy

• Committee Shakeup: Kennedy replaced the entire CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) with appointees sharing his views or prior vaccine skepticism (01:13).
  • All career officials who maintained safeguards and agenda-setting were also dismissed (01:16).
• First Actions: The restaffed panel quickly voted to recommend against flu vaccines containing thimerosal, following a single contentious presentation by anti-vaccine advocate Lynne Redwood (01:41–02:38).
  • Redwood blames thimerosal for her son’s autism and has been hired by Kennedy to a CDC vaccine safety post.
• Kennedy’s View: Kennedy has repeatedly claimed, “Vaccines are inherently unsafe. You cannot make them safe.” (03:05)

C. Function and Importance of ACIP

• How ACIP Works: Dr. Offit explains that ACIP’s recommendations determine if insurance companies cover specific vaccines (04:07).
• COVID Vaccines for Pregnant Women: Under Kennedy, recommendations for COVID vaccines for healthy children and pregnant women were removed from the CDC immunization schedule (04:41–05:05).
  • Offit’s Warning: Withdrawing recommendations will jeopardize insurance coverage and increase liability risk for healthcare workers, “It does nothing to make America healthy again. All it does is put pregnant women at unnecessary risk.” (05:05)

D. Fabricated Justifications for Policy Changes

• Citing Flawed Evidence: Kennedy sent a letter to Congress citing studies that, according to Offit, “said exactly the opposite” of Kennedy’s claims about vaccine safety for pregnant women (05:57–06:37).
  • Quote: “It was that cynical and frankly dishonest.” — Paul Offit (06:37)
• Alleged Conflicts of Interest: Kennedy justified firing ACIP members by claiming “most of ACIP’s members have received substantial funding from pharmaceutical companies,” which Offit calls completely bogus (07:10).
  • Quote: “He completely made it up...He didn’t have a leg to stand on.” — Paul Offit (07:10)

E. Notable New Appointees to ACIP

• Vicki Pebsworth: Longtime anti-vaccine activist, member of the National Vaccine Information Center (09:23–09:32).

• Dr. Robert Malone: Prominent on anti-vaccine podcasts, claims mRNA vaccines are illegal and cause cancer—“All of which is clearly untrue.” — Paul Offit (10:52)

• Martin Kaldorff: Co-author of the Great Barrington Declaration, expert witness for Kennedy’s lawsuit against Gardasil; supports “let the virus run wild” (11:47).

• Retsef Levy: Calls for immediate halt to mRNA vaccines due to supposed ‘unprecedented harm’ (12:26). Offit denounces Levy’s claims as unsupported by data.

  Quote:
  “I think, frankly, it [COVID vaccine development] is the greatest scientific or medical achievement that has occurred in my lifetime... and somewhere in 2021 created this enormous backlash against vaccines.” — Paul Offit (13:00)

F. Thimerosal, Autism, and Vaccine Myths

• History: Early 2000s, precaution led to removing thimerosal from most vaccines, despite studies showing no link to autism and less risk than naturally occurring environmental mercury (18:45–20:08).
• Autism Rates: Incidence of autism has gone up even after thimerosal was removed, largely due to diagnostic changes, not vaccines.
• Precautionary Principle as Double-Edged Sword: “All it does is make it perceived to be safer, which is a very different thing.” — Paul Offit (21:43)

G. Dangers to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)

• Kennedy’s Legal and Financial Interest: Offit warns Kennedy is poised to alter the compensation program to enrich himself via lawsuits (15:00–16:51).
  • Senator Warren’s Concern: “You could publish your anti-vaccine conspiracies, but this time on US government letterhead... There’s a lot of ways you can influence those lawsuits... I’m asking you to commit right now that you will not take a financial stake...” — Sen. Elizabeth Warren (17:10)
  • Kennedy responds evasively: “I’ll comply with all ethical guidelines.” (18:14)

H. Media Narratives and Measles Outbreaks

• Underreported Danger: Offit refutes claims of media overblowing measles outbreaks; actual cases may be 4–5 times higher than reported (26:59).
  • Quote: “We need to make this come alive...it is unconscionable that two healthy children just died from a vaccine-preventable disease.” — Paul Offit (27:18)
• Attacks on Expertise: Kennedy’s actions are seen as institutionalizing anti-vaccine ideology within health agencies.

I. The State of US Public Health and Expertise

• CDC ‘Brain Drain’: Notable resignations, including Fiona Havers, over the manipulation and suppression of safety and efficacy data (29:58–36:47).

  • “I am worried that American children now are at greater risk of vaccine preventable diseases. That should worry people.” — Paul Offit (31:10)

• Pandemic Policies and Trust: Public backlash against COVID mandates created a climate of skepticism toward scientific and medical expertise (31:19–32:14).

  • Tension between public health and individual freedom remains unresolved.

J. The Path Forward for Science Communication

• Need for Transparency and Nuance: Offit advocates for more nuanced, clear communication of vaccine policy—including explanations of changing recommendations—to rebuild trust (34:33–35:42).
  • “We underestimated what the public can handle.” — Paul Offit (34:42)
• Consequences of Systemic Undermining: Cuts to research grants and funding are already damaging the public health and scientific research infrastructure (36:47).

Memorable Quotes and Moments

• On the loss of trust:
  “All it does is put pregnant women at unnecessary risk.” — Paul Offit (05:05)
• On Kennedy’s claims:
  “He didn’t do that because he couldn’t do that because he didn’t have a leg to stand on regarding his false allegations.” — Paul Offit (07:10)
• On expert resignations:
  “I am worried that American children now are at greater risk of vaccine preventable diseases. That should worry people.” — Paul Offit (31:10)
• On science messaging:
  “We should have had more trust that the American public could understand all that.” — Paul Offit (34:42)
• On personal sadness:
  “I wake up every day sad that the things that I care about... is putting kids at risk.” — Paul Offit (37:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:24]—Survey on vaccine skepticism; erosion of trust
• [01:13]—Kennedy replaces CDC vaccine committee
• [03:05]—Kennedy: “Vaccines are inherently unsafe”
• [04:07]—Role of ACIP explained
• [05:05]—COVID vaccine removed from pregnancy recommendations
• [06:37]—Offit: Kennedy’s evidence “cynical and frankly dishonest”
• [07:10]—Conflicts of interest, Offit rebuts Kennedy’s claims
• [09:23–12:58]—Profiles of new ACIP appointees
• [13:00]—“Greatest medical achievement” and rise of backlash
• [15:00]—Vaccine Injury Compensation Program vulnerabilities
• [17:10]—Sen. Warren confronts Kennedy's ethics
• [20:08]—Rising autism rates, expanded diagnosis
• [26:59]—Media coverage and actual measles risk
• [29:58]—CDC resignations, impact on research
• [31:19]—COVID era policy backlash and libertarian sentiment
• [34:42]—Lessons for science communication
• [36:47]—Impact of grants loss on research
• [37:25]—Offit's personal reflection

Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintains a tone of urgent, informed skepticism toward Kennedy’s leadership, with Dr. Offit voicing deep concern for the future of public health. The discussion blends policy analysis, scientific context, and personal reflection to convey how recent changes could undermine decades of vaccine progress and public trust in science.

Summary by an Expert Podcast Summarizer for On the Media, September 17, 2025