Trump Has Forever Changed America's Place In The World

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Trump Has Forever Changed America's Place In The World” (On the Media, August 5, 2026)

---

Main Theme

This episode of On the Media, hosted by Brooke Gladstone, examines the profound, possibly irreversible changes to America's global role and international alliances under the Trump administration. With analysis from journalist and historian Garrett M. Graff, the conversation dissects how U.S. maneuvers—from saber-rattling over Iran to attempts to acquire Greenland—have eroded the foundations (“pillars”) of American influence and uprooted the existing world order, illuminating the consequences for alliances, international law, and global power balance.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Erosion of American Pillars of Strength (03:33–07:14)

Garrett M. Graff details six core pillars that defined America’s primacy and influence, arguing that all have suffered irreparable harm under Trump:

1. Immigration and Foreign Talent
   • Quote (03:51): “The first is easy access of immigrants to the United States and the pull of foreign students to our world class schools and universities.” – Garrett M. Graff
2. Government Support of Research and Education
   • Quote (04:02): “Rich and steady government support of higher education, medical research and laboratories.”
3. Free Trade and Economic Integration
   • Quote (04:13): “The third pillar...has been the story of broad trade, access to US markets and reciprocally, a flow of US products to the rest of the world, lowering trade barriers...”
4. Adherence to Rule of Law at Home
   • Quote (04:47): “The idea of a fascist government secret police…business leaders having to think about standing with the president to move forward with a merger—or bribe the president personally... seemed unthinkable even just a year ago.” – Graff
5. Web of Geopolitical Alliances
   • Quote (05:48): “That has been really the bedrock of US foreign policy going back to the end of World War II…We stood up these institutions like NATO, like the United Nations…to make this world safer, more stable and more secure.” – Graff
6. Prudent Monetary Policy and Reserve Currency Status
   • Quote (06:33): “…A politically independent and fiscally prudent monetary policy that established the US Dollar as the world’s safest reserve currency… You look at all six of these things and Donald Trump has done irreparable damage to all six of these.” – Graff

America’s Role in the "Rules-Based Order" (02:42–03:20, 07:51–08:59)

• Canadian PM Mark Carney and others recognize the hypocrisy inherent in the “rules-based order” that benefitted the strong at the expense of others, yet Graff argues the Trump era marks a self-inflicted collapse rather than external challenge.
  • Quote (02:44): “We knew the story of the international rules based order was partially false...This bargain no longer works. We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.” – Mark Carney

Self-Destruction by Choice (07:17–08:59)

• Unlike historical falls of empires, America’s current unraveling is a voluntary process:
  • Quote (07:17): “No country in the modern history of the nation state has chosen to commit suicide by its own choice, undermining its core sources of national strength.” – Graff
• Gladstone and Graff critique the simplistic notion that the order was ever just, noting its many failings and the suffering it caused globally.

The Rise of Alternative Power Structures (09:59–10:43)

• Trump's creation of the Board of Peace, with a select group of dubious allies, is discussed as a symbolic, not substantive, realignment of U.S. relationships.
  • Quote (10:21): “It is a stunningly unimpressive list of countries that … America has most held its nose while doing business with.” – Graff

Legacy and Irreversibility (11:13–13:53)

• The central, haunting question: Can this profound shift be undone?
• Quote (11:29): “That's the heartbreak... I think that this world is gone. … in the back of your mind is always going to be, the United States is only one election away from a Donald Trump again.” – Graff
• Historian’s analogy: The funeral of Edward VII as the grand finale before the collapse of European colonial power, suggesting 2026 might be a similar marker for America.
  • Quote (12:55): “Someday we will tell our children about 2026 in world politics, and they will not be able to fathom what we chose to do as a country to ourselves.” – Graff

The Fraying of NATO and Alliance Trust (14:17–15:08)

• Alliances like NATO depend on trust and reliability, now deeply eroded:
  • Quote (14:25): “That’s all an alliance really is. It’s the promise that when you need me, I will be there. The moment … nations ... start to check over their shoulder whether the US is an adversary or an ally, the whole promise collapses.” – Graff

The European Response and the Future of Global Power (15:08–16:31)

• Europe could fill the vacuum, but its own divisions threaten stability. While they may try to rebuild an order, the unique power once held in partnership with the U.S. is likely lost.
  • Quote (15:26): “It has not been smooth sailing, but it has been a world struggling to be born.” – Graff

The Vanishing Perspective of History (16:37–18:07)

• Graff laments that, as the “greatest generation” passes away, policymakers are forgetting the immense effort required to build international stability post-World War II.
  • Quote (16:37): “…the last of the generation who understood how hard this world was to build the first time—to fight against fascism… What I really worry about is these decisions being made by policymakers who don’t understand the high cost it took to achieve this level of peace, security and economic prosperity...” – Graff

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American decline by choice:
  “No country in the modern history of the nation state has chosen to commit suicide by its own choice, undermining its core sources of national strength.” — Garrett M. Graff (07:17)
• On the fragility of alliances:
  “That’s all an alliance really is, Brooke. It’s the promise that when you need me, I will be there.” — Graff (14:25)
• On the enduring shadow of Trumpism:
  “...the United States is only one election away from a Donald Trump again.” — Graff (11:29)
• On the end of an era:
  “Someday we will tell our children about 2026 in world politics, and they will not be able to fathom what we chose to do as a country to ourselves.” — Graff (12:55)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening: Iran tensions and the Greenland episode – 00:28–02:34
• “Rules-based world order” challenged – 02:42–03:20
• The six pillars of U.S. global power – 03:33–07:14
• Is this unprecedented? Historical parallels – 07:14–07:51
• Debate on America’s moral standing – 07:51–08:59
• Alternative alliances & Trump’s Board of Peace – 09:59–10:43
• Irreversibility of the new global reality – 11:13–13:53
• The fragility of alliances like NATO – 14:17–15:08
• Europe's prospects and risks – 15:08–16:31
• Loss of historic memory & cost of peace – 16:37–18:07

---

Tone & Final Takeaway

The episode’s tone is somber, reflective, and more alarmed than angry—a deep exhale rather than a “hot take.” Both Gladstone and Graff underscore the unique, self-inflicted nature of America's decline in international standing, suggesting the era of U.S.-led stability has come to a sudden and perhaps permanent close. Their conversation leaves listeners with questions about the future of global order and the responsibilities of future generations.

---

For listeners seeking an essential breakdown of how and why America’s world-shaping role has disintegrated, this episode is a nuanced and sobering recap of a pivotal moment in history.

Transcript

[Garrett M. Graff]

Onthemedia is supported by Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort, offering destination focused small ship experiences on all seven continents with a shore excursion included in every port and programs designed for cultural enrichment. And every Viking voyage is all inclusive with no children and no casinos. Learn [e-mail] this is on the media's midweek podcast.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm Brooke Gladstone. You know, the president's insistence that a deal with Iran is almost done has a sort of feeling of Groundhog Day.

[Donald Trump]

The strait's gonna be open very soon or they're gonna get hit very hard and then the strait's gonna be open. Is this their last chance? If they back out again, they're gonna get hit really hard. You know, they know that. They understand that.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Whether or not a deal is reached to end the hostilities and open the Strait of Hormuz, the United States standing on has been forever altered by this administration's maneuvering over the last year and a half. Remember Greenland?

[Garrett M. Graff]

The president tonight in the heart of Europe, abruptly backing off two bold threats regarding his ongoing quest to control Greenland tariffs and military action, posting he's reached a framework of a future deal with the Secretary General of NATO. But when pressed, providing no further details.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That was just hours after Trump gave an address at the World Economic Forum in Davos back in January in which he rambled on ominously about how the US Needs to own Greenland.

[Donald Trump]

All the United States is asking for is a place called Greenland. We want a piece of ice for world protection and they won't give it. They have a choice. You can say yes and we will be very appreciative, or you can say no and we will remember.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Greenland is of course part of Denmark, a US Ally and a member of NATO. Thus Trump, with his demands and his threats stood likely to upend a mutual defense contract and a solid alliance between the US and much of Europe and Canada that's been a shield and a hedge against aggression since 1949. Denmark sent troops to the island in the high north to defend against Trump's imperial ambitions. At Davos, some of America's once staunchest allies basically said they'd had enough, like European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. Of course, nostalgia is part of our human story.

[Garrett M. Graff]

But nostalgia will not bring back the old order.

[Mark Carney]

We knew the story of the international rules based order was partially false.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney that the

[Mark Carney]

strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically. And we knew that international law applied with varying rigor depending on the identity of the accused. Or the victim. This fiction was useful and American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. This bargain no longer works. Let me be direct. We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.

[Brooke Gladstone]

In January, I spoke to Garrett M. Graffiti journalist, historian and author of a piece in Wired titled We are Witnessing the Self Immolation of an Empire.

[Garrett M. Graff]

Since he came to office a year ago, Donald Trump has set about consciously dismantling what to me are the six core sources of national strength and influence for the United States on the world stage.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Right, you call them the six pillars, just go through them all.

[Garrett M. Graff]

The first is easy access of immigrants to the United States and the pull of foreign students to our world class schools and universities.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Okay, now let's go to the second pillar. Rich and steady government support of higher education, medical research and laboratories.

[Garrett M. Graff]

And of course, it's very related to that first pillar, how we have these world class schools and why they attract the very best talent from all over the world. And the third pillar, the whole story of growth of the economy in the last 50 years has been the story of broad trade, access to US Markets and reciprocally, a flow of US Products to the rest of the world, lowering trade barriers and making the global economy ever more frictionless.

[Brooke Gladstone]

The fourth one is an unyielding and unquestionable adherence to the rule of law at home.

[Garrett M. Graff]

The rule of law in the United States had been so firmly established, the idea of a fascist government secret police, that a president would be using the Justice Department to punish political enemies, that business leaders would actually have to think about their standing with the president personally to decide whether they could move forward with a corporate merger or bribe the president personally in order to be able to continue doing business. This is something that until even just a year ago, seemed unthinkable to even mention.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Likewise, this would be the fifth pillar, a firm, unyielding and unquestionable network of geopolitical alliances and that knit a security blanket across the entire globe.

[Garrett M. Graff]

That has been really the bedrock of US Foreign policy going back to the end of World War II. We emerged from that war in this moment where, like, we don't want a world war to ever happen again. And we are going to build the network of global institutions to help ensure that problems going forward are solved with diplomacy and not military might. And we stood up these institutions like NATO, like the United nations, like the World bank and the International Monetary Fund, to try to make this world safer, more stable and more secure.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You have a sixth pillar.

[Garrett M. Graff]

Yes. And all five of these pillars come together to firm up another equally critical pillar, a politically independent and fiscally prudent monetary policy that established the US Dollar as the world's safest reserve currency, made US treasury bonds the savings bank for the entire world, and made US Banking networks and capital markets the place to be for any company looking for access to investors. You look at all six of these things and Donald Trump has done irreparable damage to all six of these.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Has this happened before in American history?

[Garrett M. Graff]

Countries have made mistakes. Empires rise and fall as technology changes, as geopolitics change. You can point to Napoleon making the disastrous decision to invade Russia. You can talk about the decisions of the Austro Hungarian Empire at the start of World War I. But no country in the modern history of the nation state has chosen to commit suicide by its own choice, undermining its core sources of national strength.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Can we stipulate, though, that this rules based order, as we call it, hasn't worked for everybody and America has played fast and loose with its tenets over and over again? This is something that Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney emphasized in his speech that there were a lot of things where participants in the rules based order just pretended not to see.

[Garrett M. Graff]

This world order has seen huge tragedy. The Cold War was felt acutely by people in countries like Vietnam and Cambodia. I mean, the United States has been a hugely destabilizing force in Latin America and Central America. There are all sorts of problems with America atop the world order.

[Brooke Gladstone]

The end of the Cold War weakened American power because nations didn't have to compromise their individual interests as much to get under America's security umbrella. I mean, we know that America did some awful things. Maybe we had it coming.

[Garrett M. Graff]

There is an entirely cogent argument that one could make that the world was due for, for a reshuffling of that world order. What to me is so stunning about this particular moment, though, is the idea that America is doing this of our own accord, that we are forcing these other countries to look elsewhere for peace, strength and stability because we are seeding that ground to Europe, to China, to no one. You look at Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping and they just must be gleeful watching Donald Trump's actions over the last year. China is right there pitching itself to Europe and the world beyond to help pick up the pieces of this broken American century and leadership role.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Trump is not entirely without friends. He inaugurated his Board of Peace. He is the head of it for life. The countries that have joined had to, I guess, kick in a billion dollars as a kind of membership fee. Among the countries are Belarus, Israel, Pakistan, Turkey.

[Garrett M. Graff]

It is a stunningly unimpressive list of the countries that historically, America has most held its nose while doing business with. These are sort of, for the most part, our most uncomfortable allies.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Not to Trump personally.

[Garrett M. Graff]

Not to Trump personally. That's the one uniting characteristic of everything that we are watching Donald Trump do, from tearing down the East Wing and building a ballroom to. To building the Trump Arch in Washington,

[Brooke Gladstone]

not to mention the Kennedy Center.

[Garrett M. Graff]

All of these things are about trying to build a legacy that so changes the arc of the world that it cannot be undone.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Which brings us inevitably to the question, can this be undone? You know, as Gramsci famously said, the old world is gone, the new world is yet to begin. And in the interregnum, there is much morbidity. Is it just over?

[Garrett M. Graff]

That's the heartbreak of this, Brooke. I think that this world is gone. We could elect a whole string of presidents going forward who believe in NATO and invest in NATO, who try to restart usaid, who try to lure the best foreign students back to the United States to do research at our universities, to rebuild the trust in the Justice Department. And I think whether you're a potential immigrant to the United States, whether you're a corporate leader in the United States or abroad, or you're the head of state of a foreign country, in the back of your mind is always going to be, the United States is only one election away from a Donald Trump. Again, you know, I closed my Wired piece talking about the famous opening of historian Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August, her book about World War I. She opens with the grand funeral of England's Edward VII in May of 1910, this fabulously colorful parade of mourning that brought together nine kings, seven queens, and 40 more imperial and royal highnesses. And what none of them realized in that moment was that was really the high point and last gasp of the grand era of geopolitical dominance and sort of the peak of the colonial powers of Europe, which over the rest of that decade, you know, destroyed itself in the trenches and poppy fields of the First World War and ceded control of that world that they had inherited and led for a century to the upstart America across the Atlantic Ocean. That was the moment that our century really began. And someday we will tell our children about 2026 in world politics, and they will not be able to fathom what we chose to do as a country to ourselves.

[Mark Carney]

And.

[Garrett M. Graff]

And they will never be able to contemplate what the United States once meant to the world beyond. Because the relationship of the United States to the rest of the world has been so fundamentally altered by this last year.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I want to go back and ask you a couple of things that I sort of skipped over.

[Garrett M. Graff]

The complete collapse of the world order. And we missed a subject or two. I don't believe it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

How much of NATO's power rested on belief in the liberal rules based order that is crumbling.

[Garrett M. Graff]

That's all an alliance really is, Brooke. It's the promise that when you need me, I will be there. The moment that Denmark or any of these other European nations is now facing down Russia in Europe and has to sort of every so often start to turn around and check over its shoulder whether the US Is an adversary or an ally, the whole promise collapses.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Can Europe recreate a system of stability that the world can rely on the way that the US Once did?

[Garrett M. Graff]

I think it could, absolutely. This is what the grand European experiment of the last 80 years has been. You know, the creation of the European Union, the creation of the Euro, the European Commission, and the European global market.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It certainly hasn't been smooth sailing.

[Garrett M. Graff]

It has not been smooth sailing, but it has been a world struggling to be born. You know, a vision for a future for a united Europe. But even that is under its own threat. I mean, we saw Brexit the same time that Donald Trump was elected. The first time we've seen how devastating that has been politically and economically to the United Kingdom. So that's not to say that Europe can't pull it together and build something new. But Europe on its own will never be as powerful as Europe and the United States and North America was together. And from the US Perspective, one of the things we really need to worry about is when Europe looks around for its partners going forward, Europe and China could be an incredibly powerful partnership for the 21st century. That leaves the US sitting on the sidelines.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Europe could take the opportunity to say, wow, that was 80 years of bullying. To hell with you guys.

[Garrett M. Graff]

A lot of my work is as a World War II historian. And to me, part of this is the story of where we are exactly 80 years after the end of World War II, that we are losing the last of the greatest generation who fought and won World War II, the last of the generation who understood how hard this world was to build the first time to fight against fascism and to root out fascism once it took hold in the continent of Europe and how much work it took to build these international institutions, the Baby boomers have spent effectively all of their lives growing up under the umbrella of peace, security, stability and economic success given by this policy recipe. What I really worry about is these decisions being made by policymakers who don't understand the high cost it took to achieve this level of peace, security and economic prosperity and are willing to burn it all down now for Donald Trump's own ego and narcissism without worrying about what comes next.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Garrett, thank you very much.

[Garrett M. Graff]

I would say, Brooke, it's always a pleasure, but this is a pretty depressing conversation.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Garrett Graf is a journalist, historian, and author of the newsletter Doomsday Scenario. This interview first aired in January. Thanks for listening to the midweek podcast. See you Friday.