On the Media — "Trump v. Tylenol. Plus, How Charlie Kirk Became a Martyr for the Christian Right."

Date: September 26, 2025
Hosts: Brooke Gladstone & Michael (Micah) Loewinger
Podcast: On the Media, WNYC Studios

Overview

This episode interrogates the shifting relationship between government, science, and expertise under the Trump administration — focusing first on the spread of pseudo-scientific claims about Tylenol and autism, and the gutting of biomedical research funding. In the second half, the show explores the intersection of the "war on drugs" and "war on terror," highlighting the new administration's militarized approach to drug enforcement and domestic activism. The final segment unpacks the religious and political meaning-making around the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, examining how martyr narratives are fueling a radicalized Christian right.

1. Trump’s Tylenol Claim and the Assault on Scientific Expertise

Key Points & Insights

• Donald Trump’s baseless warning about Tylenol and autism echoes a broader MAGA-era disregard for scientific expertise.
  • "Trump claimed without evidence that autism is linked to acetaminophen use during pregnancy." — Brooke Gladstone [00:04]
  • The evidence Trump refers to is “unsettled, disputed, and failed to pass legal scrutiny.” [01:38]
• RFK Jr., now Health Secretary, claims the government will soon identify the causes of the autism “epidemic” – but simultaneously slashed research budgets and killed epidemiology divisions.
  • “By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic.” — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [02:12]
  • Erin McCandless (CDC/NIOSH) describes the abrupt destruction of her division: “We had just received our longitudinal data for this project that we had been working on for 20 years. Everybody in my building... had been fired.” [03:23]
• NIH operations have been disrupted, with thousands fired and billions cut.
  • “The National Institutes of Health abruptly announced it will make cuts to biomedical research funding.” — Brian Reed [03:58]
  • “It has fired over 1,300 employees and canceled more than $2 billion in federal research funds.” — John Tuthill [04:03]
• The peer-review system for funding science is breaking down.
  • NIH grant reviewer John Tuthill: “Some grants are arbitrarily being chosen not to get funded. It’s very opaque how our reviews end up getting translated into actual funding of science.” [05:27]
  • Funding rates in neuroscience have dropped to below 10%; “You can’t help but think about how so much of the work we’re doing is not going to result in the science actually getting done.” [06:59]
• The crisis isn’t just about money—it’s about dismantling trust and process:
  • "As much harm as a 40% cut to the NIH budget would have on scientific innovation, destroying the peer evaluation system that decides what science is funded would be far worse." — John Tuthill [08:56]
• Example of science under threat: Major breakthrough in treating Huntington's disease owes its origins to “curiosity-driven” worm research—a type of work often derided by budget-cutters.
  • “It’s really building up this tower of knowledge built on the foundation of studying basic biology.” — John Tuthill [11:05]

Notable Quotes

• “We need to take the work that we’ve done and keep moving forward with it.” — Erin McCandless [03:23]
• “Once you start funding poor quality science, that funding is both being taken away from folks who are doing actual really rigorous work." — John Tuthill [09:12]
• “The NIH is a bunch of pinheaded experts, scientists like me. We study these really niche topics and... hope that someday it has some benefit for the world. And in that way you develop expertise, and that kind of expertise is no longer welcome.” — John Tuthill [14:32]

Timestamps

• [00:04] Trump Tylenol-autism claim
• [02:12] RFK Jr. & CDC research gutted
• [04:03] NIH mass firings and funding cuts
• [06:59] Plummeting grant funding
• [08:56] Why peer review matters more than money
• [11:05] How basic science leads to cures

2. The War on Drugs Meets the War on Terror

Key Points & Insights

• The Trump administration, after a deadly shooting at an immigration facility, has elevated the language and tactics of the “war on terrorism” for both domestic and foreign policy.
  • "Within hours of the attack, the administration began to seed its narrative." — Michael Loewinger [18:31]
  • Executive orders now target NGOs, funders, and groups allegedly espousing “anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, and anti-Christianity.” [19:05]
• The administration labels Antifa a “major terrorist organization” — despite no legal statute supporting domestic terror designations.
  • “There are no laws on the books that allow the President to designate domestic terrorism organizations, nor is Antifa a group..." — Michael Loewinger [20:30]
• Trump surrogates push for new, ideologically driven terrorism categories, including “transgender inspired ideology.”
  • “Mike Howell of the Heritage Foundation ... has been lobbying the FBI to adopt a new terrorist category: TIVE — transgender inspired ideology.” [20:55]
• Criticism of contradictory priorities: prosecutors and agents for January 6 cases have been purged, while political loyalists with little experience are appointed to national security roles.
  • “Why did they appoint Thomas Fugate ... head of the Extremism Division at DHS? He’s 22 years old, one year out of college, with no evident national security experience.” [21:49]
• Caribbean “narco-terror” strikes: The Navy has sunk four Venezuelan boats this month, justified as anti-drug, anti-terror moves.
  • “We’re hitting them, as you probably noticed, very hard. And we’re blowing the Venezuelan narco-terrorists ... the hell out of the water.”— Trump audio [23:00]
  • Analysts call the official justification thin; Venezuela says the US is prepping for regime change [24:08]
• Expanding the definition of “terrorist” to foreign criminal cartels and even domestic protest groups allows legal and political maneuvers outside normal due process—potentially criminalizing dissent.
  • “Calling people narco-terrorists feels like a way to kind of tap into American fears ... about drugs and terrorism.” — Michael Loewinger [32:51]

Notable Quotes

• “The line that’s been coming out of the administration is that drugs are a serious national security threat…and that therefore anyone bringing drugs into the US is a legitimate target. That’s just not true.” — Josh Keating [24:08]
• “There’s no such thing as a domestic terrorist designation. The FDO is designed for, you know, foreign groups.” — Josh Keating [32:11]
• “I think they are sort of rethinking the purpose of military power.... are we literally at war with narco-terrorists? Are we at war with American cities?” — Josh Keating [33:14]
• “The US has sort of neglected its backyard... it’s not a backwater anymore. It seems to be very much front and center of what they’re paying attention to.” — Josh Keating [34:11]

Timestamps

• [18:19] Immigration facility shooting and political narrative
• [20:19] Trump designates Antifa as “terrorist organization”
• [21:49] Contradictory personnel moves at DHS
• [22:20] US Navy launches strikes on Venezuelan boats
• [24:08] Legal and political context for “narco-terror” designation
• [32:51] Ramifications of expanding “terror” rhetoric

3. The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk & the Christian Right

Key Points & Insights

• Charlie Kirk’s funeral became a convergence point for Christian nationalist rhetoric, martyr narratives, and Republican political theology.
  • “Tens of thousands of people attended Charlie Kirk’s memorial service, including the president.” — Brooke Gladstone [38:17]
  • “Our greatest evangelist for American liberty became immortal.” — President Trump (memorial speech) [38:27]
  • Kirk is called “a hero for the United States of America and a martyr for the Christian faith.” — Vice President [38:37]
• Turning Point USA’s evolution: Originally secular, the group’s fusion with charismatic evangelicalism began around 2019 following Kirk’s alliance with pastor Rob McCoy.
  • “If you had asked me circa 2018… Turning Point would not have been anywhere on that list. Today, it’s probably number one.” — Matthew D. Taylor [40:23]
  • The “Seven Mountain Mandate”—a prophecy to seize influence in every cultural sphere for Christianity—profoundly shaped Kirk and his organization [41:13]
• Kirk’s personal transformation paralleled his marriage and conversion to evangelical Christianity, catalyzed by mentor figures and relationships.
  • Kirk’s wife Erika “comes from the world of evangelicalism... she was a piece of his own, at least personal movement towards faith.” — Matthew D. Taylor [42:57]
• At the memorial, Kirk was compared to the first Christian martyr Stephen, echoing a biblical archetype to inspire and mobilize the religious right.
  • “Stephen was killed for speaking the truth about Christ, much like Charlie Kirk the martyr. Stephen was the same age as Charlie Kirk when he was martyred.” — Benny Johnson [44:58]
• Christian martyr narratives serve a dual purpose: inspiring forgiveness but also enabling calls to vengeance and violence.
  • Erica Kirk embodies one side: “My husband Charlie, he wanted to save young men just like the one who took his life... I forgive him.” — Erica Kirk [47:02]
  • Contrasted with calls for righteous violence. “I hate my opponent and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry.” — Stephen Miller [47:26]
• The rhetorical frames around Kirk’s death amplify a sense of Christian persecution, fueling radicalization.
  • “The way that has been turned into this attack on free speech, contributes to the polarization of our politics. And I really do worry that it is driving a mass radicalization of Christians around these narratives of persecution.” — Matthew D. Taylor [53:22]
• Reference to two-kingdoms theology: Christians are urged to forgive in the spiritual realm but to dominate (“wield the sword”) in the civic realm.
  • “They say openly that hate is a way to love God.” — Bradley Onishi (via Taylor) [51:19]

Notable Quotes

• “A martyr is... a symbol that can be wielded for great violence. It is one of the most potent forces in the Christian tradition.” — Matthew D. Taylor [48:14]
• “I worry that Charlie Kirk's death... is driving a mass radicalization of Christians around these narratives of persecution. The left is against us. This kind of nefarious and ambivalent signifier of 'they'." — Matthew D. Taylor [54:05]
• “It’s the dehumanization that concerns me. It is the dehumanization that concerns me as well. It’s a cancer that will kill a democracy in the long term.” — Gladstone & Taylor [54:09]

Timestamps

• [38:17] Charlie Kirk funeral coverage
• [40:23] Turning Point USA’s Christian turn
• [41:13] Seven Mountain Mandate explained
• [42:57] Kirk’s personal faith journey
• [44:58] Martyrdom narrative, Kirk as Stephen
• [46:51] Forgiveness vs. vengeance responses
• [48:14] Dangers and power of the martyr narrative
• [53:22] Martyrdom and political radicalization

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On devaluing expertise:
  “The NIH is a bunch of pinheaded experts, scientists like me... and that kind of expertise is no longer welcome.” — John Tuthill [14:32]
• On the power and double-edge of martyrdom:
  “A martyr is both a member of the community who is treasured in value, but a martyr is also a symbol that can be wielded for great violence.” — Matthew D. Taylor [48:14]
• On radicalization and democracy:
  “I worry that Charlie Kirk’s death... is driving a mass radicalization of Christians around these narratives of persecution.” — Matthew D. Taylor [53:22]

Conclusion

This episode is a sobering look at how assaults on scientific expertise, the expansion of state power under vague threats of “terrorism,” and potent martyr narratives on the Christian right are reshaping American institutions, discourse, and democracy itself. The media’s role in amplifying — or interrogating — these trends is more important than ever.

Recommended listening for anyone concerned about the future of American science, rights, politics, and the utility (and danger) of political mythmaking.