← On with Kara Swisher
Loading summary
Transcript148 lines
- [00:00]
Amanda Littman
If you don't like dsa, it is possible for the establishment wings of the party or the old guard to offer a different vision. The fact that they have instead chosen to punch left, it's like make an argument.
- [00:23]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. This is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. We're just a few months away from the midterm elections, if you can believe it. And with President Trump's popularity in the toilet, Democrats have a great chance of winning back power in Congress. But the party has been rocked by a group of insurgent progressive candidates that have unseated some longtime incumbents. We saw it happen in New York and Colorado, and all eyes are now on Michigan's Senate primary in a few weeks to see whether a progressive or centrist can win there. It's an existential election year for Democrats, and the party will have to navigate these divides in real time as it tries to chart a path out of the political wilderness. The cautionary tale, of course, is Graham Platner in Maine, who wrote a wave of populist enthusiasm to the party's Senate nomination, only to drop out earlier this month when a former girlfriend accused him of rape. He denies it. I've got three experts here to talk about this. Adam Gentleson is the president and founder of Searchlight Institute, a Democratic think tank. He also served as chief of staff to Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, and his new book, how Democrats Can Build Lasting Power, comes out in September. Amanda Littman is the co founder of and president of Run for Something. It's a progressive political group that works to recruit and support first time candidates in states and local races. And Roshni Nedungadi is founding partner and chief research officer of Hit Strategies, a public opinion research company that specializes in researching young people and people of color. I think what's really important right now is that the Democrats seem to always form a firing squad that shoots inward. And what's really important is to shoot outward. And it'll be interesting to see if they can tolerate differences of opinion, including from the left and the more conservative parts of the Democratic Party, and still win elections. And that's what I want to talk about. All right, let's get into my conversation with Adam, Amanda and Roshni. Our expert question comes from Democratic political strategist Liz Smith. Don't go anywhere. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting and another for Inventory, another for sales. And somehow none of them ever talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free@odoo.com Cara that's all o d o o.com Kara
- [03:13]
Adam Gentleson
recommendations can be amazing. I mean, maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately, but when it comes to home projects, it's different. If you don't like a show, you might lose a few minutes. If you hire a friend of a friend of a friend to fix a leaky ceiling, you could end up with a flooded kitchen. Maybe I know a guy. Just isn't enough for your home. That's why thumbtack works so well. They'll match you with a top rated local pro and you can see photos of past work credentials and reviews. All right in the app. For your next home project, try thumbtack. Hire the right pro today. Monday.com AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders, agents handle the daily grind. Now I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com it is on.
- [04:10]
Kara Swisher
Adam, Amanda, and Roshni, thank you for coming on. On.
- [04:13]
Adam Gentleson
Great to be here.
- [04:14]
Roshni Nedungadi
Thank you for having us.
- [04:15]
Amanda Littman
Thanks.
- [04:16]
Kara Swisher
So there's been a lot of ink spilled on the rise of these insurgent candidates in the Democratic Party. I'd love for each of you, what is the lens through which you're viewing this divide? Is it moderate versus centrist, Insider versus outsider, Young versus old? Why don't we start with you, Adam, then Amanda, then Roshni.
- [04:34]
Adam Gentleson
I mean, there's definitely an ideological component to it, right? You can't avoid that. I mean, the platforms that a lot of these insurgent candidates are running on are very clear. They often have a lot in common. Things like Medicare for all. You know, the war in Gaza is a huge issue driving a lot of this. But I think you also, you know, if you were doing all those positions but you didn't have the outsider versus insider dynamic, they wouldn't be getting the traction they're getting. So I think it's a combination of those two things. They happen to be young. They are definitely outsiders, but they're also a lot of the passion behind them. What's driving the movement does have these strong ideological components to it as well.
- [05:06]
Kara Swisher
Okay, Amanda, so run for something.
- [05:08]
Amanda Littman
The organization I run had nearly 100,000 people sign up to run for office in the last 18 months. That's more than we had in the entirety of Trump's first term. And the thing that we heard this time around that was different than Trump 1.0 was very specific frustration with the Democratic Party, with this sense that, like, my leaders are not fighting for me, they're not showing up for me, they don't care about me, they haven't delivered for me. I am not going to wait my turn. I'm not going to get to the back of the line. I am done being told to just like, be patient. So when I look at these insurgent candidates in congressional levels, we're seeing them on the state ledge levels and the municipal levels. It is a deep frustration with the status quo. And I do think it is generational in many ways. It's not a coincidence that so many of them are millennials and Gen Z leaders, but it's not even outsider so much as anti return to normal and anti establishment as so much as the establishment is the status quo.
- [05:59]
Kara Swisher
Roshmi.
- [06:00]
Roshni Nedungadi
Yeah, very much agree with what Amanda was saying. And I'm a partner at Hit Strategies, which is a full scale opinion research firm. We do expansive voter population research, but we also focus in on audiences that are typically underrepresented in voter research. So people of color, young voters, women, LGBTQ and all of the intersections of those voters. And they really make up the core of the Democratic Party. And I feel like should be the leaders on what the Democratic Party positions are. And exactly like Amanda said, over the last few years we've been hearing them say they are fed up with the Democratic Party. They don't see elected leaders as fighting for them. They don't believe that the systems are advocating for them and they believe that the Democratic candidates are taking their votes for granted. And so all of this is creating an environment for them that is opening a lane for a more progressive insurgent left who are more responsive to the issues of the day to step in and fill the gap that they feel is lacking in their candidates.
- [07:12]
Kara Swisher
You know, Cesare, even though, Adam, you mentioned Gaza, you didn't mention policies as much as the vibe, right? I guess the feeling that people aren't representing them on policies, is that correct?
- [07:23]
Amanda Littman
That's.
- [07:24]
Adam Gentleson
That's right. But I really think you can't understate how important the Gaza conflict is to a lot of this, I really think It's.
- [07:29]
Kara Swisher
I have two sons, 20, 21, and I.
- [07:33]
Adam Gentleson
Yes, it's hugely important because, you know, there are young, anti establishment candidates running in other races who sort of don't fall into this category of left wing insurgents. You know, people like Bobby Polito, who's running in the Rio Grande Valley in Texas, Bob Brooks, who's running in Pennsylvania's 7th district, you know, they're outsiders. They're anti establishment, too. But I think what's a differentiator between them and this sort of insurgent left is those ideological components. And there are some policy overlap with them as well. But I think it's, you know, you couldn't be included in this left wing insurgency that is largely driven by the DSA and others if you had a centrist position on the Israeli conflict or if you were unwilling to call it a genocide. And I think that's a big, big differentiator.
- [08:15]
Kara Swisher
I just have noticed from my children, two of whom have very different political views. Interestingly, they do come together on the same idea of focus on the Democrats. They don't like Trump, that's for sure. And none of you mentioned not liking Trump. Correct, Amanda?
- [08:29]
Amanda Littman
It's the water people are swimming in. It's not the bait that's hooking them. Because you have to remember for this generation of leaders, this new generation of leaders in particular, it's always been Trump. It has been the Trump era since they came into political awareness, for most of them at least, especially if you're Gen Z. The first election you voted on, Trump was on the ballot.
- [08:47]
Kara Swisher
What do you think? Roshni?
- [08:48]
Roshni Nedungadi
Yeah, I mean, he is wildly unpopular, especially among the Democratic base. And when we're in focus groups with a lot of voters and trying to talk about all of the bad things that Trump has been doing, they are very well aware of what is going on in Trump's administration. They hear it from their social media, they hear it from the news, they hear it from people in their community. We're not giving them new information when we talk about Trump's bad policies and bad decisions. So it's very much the context that they're operating under already.
- [09:23]
Kara Swisher
So let's talk about some of the candidates that represent what we're talking about here. Progressives saw two big wins in Colorado this month. In the governor's race, State Attorney General Phil beat Democratic Senator Michael Bennett. That was a huge surprise, I think, to a lot of the establishment and Democratic Socialist Mehlat Kiros unseated Democratic Representative Diana DeGette. Who held the Denver seat for almost 30 years. Adam, Colorado is a blue state, but not a bright blue state. Talk about the dynamics of these races in particular and how the insurgents were able to oust these incumbents.
- [09:54]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah, it's ironic because if you know Michael Bennett, as I have had the privilege of getting to know him a little bit over the years, this guy was very against the current Democratic. He had lots of problems with Chuck Schumer. You know, he was a big critic both in private and in public. But I think, you know, it wasn't part of his public identity in a major way. And that is ultimately what really sort of did him in in this race, because he was seen as a D.C. insider. Phil Weiser, who beat him, isn't exactly a left wing progressive. This definitely sort of is evidence for the idea that this is a lot more about outsider versus insider, because Phil Weiser doesn't adopt Medicare for all as one of his policy positions. He actually is in line with us at Searchlight on free primary care for all. But then on the House race side, you kind of have the opposite dynamic. Where dian get is a co sponsor of Medicare for all. Right. A big advocate for it and has been for a long time. But she didn't have as far left a position on Israel and Gaza. And that was part of the avenue that, that Malat Kiros and others used against her. Also the fact that she's taking corporate money and some of these other aspects that were ultimately what did her in. So it's, it's a mix of things and, and there are different things in different races, but, you know, some combination of outsider versus insider and some of these deep ideological issues that are driving this. When those things come together, incumbents really gotta watch out because they could really
- [11:08]
Kara Swisher
be in trouble Right now in New York, three progressives backed by a New York City mayor. Zoran Mamdani's ousted House incumbents. Two of those candidates are also members of the Democratic Socialists of America. House Speaker Hakeem Jeffries was not pleased with Mamdani's decision to endorse these candidates. Amanda, what lessons do mainstream Democrats still need to learn about what's resonating with voters right now? And certainly the mayor is what I
- [11:33]
Amanda Littman
thought was so interesting about those races. Claire Valdez and Darieliza Chevalier, while they got the attention for their comments on Gaza, and I think that speaks sort of like their moral character, their campaigns were really focused on cost of living issues. It was about housing, it was about childcare, it was about infrastructure. The Things that they were knocking doors about were the same things that Mamdani was talking about in his campaign. It was, you have problems, we have solutions, and the current leadership has not delivered them. I mean, in many ways, it speaks to kind of what Trump was getting at so long ago, which is like, this swamp is not serving you. I'm going to solve all your problems. I can fix it. This new class of Democratic leaders and, you know, DSA or not, they are saying, we hear you, we hear how broken you feel, everything is, how much it feels like the system is not working for you. I don't care even if you're aligned with them or not. In terms of, like, policies, these folks in power have not solved it. They just haven't. We've given them the chance. They've been in office in some cases as long as you've been alive. Throw them out.
- [12:32]
Kara Swisher
Give us a new try now, Roshni. Republicans are already trying to tie Democrats to Mamdani and these other DSA candidates. I've never heard the word communism so much since I studied in school. But for young voters and voters of color, how potent an attack line is that?
- [12:47]
Roshni Nedungadi
I actually think that he is very popular nationally and has only grown in popularity since he's been elected. And so his ideas and the policies that. That he is pushing and the candidates that are pushing these ideas and policies are very, very popular nationally. And so I don't think he is as effective of a boogeyman for Republicans because people are seeing him make real change in New York City and seeing the voters of New York City be really appreciative of the work that he's doing.
- [13:20]
Kara Swisher
Why are they doing it then? They must have some poll they're dragging out or just is it a knee jerk? Say communist and hope it works.
- [13:26]
Roshni Nedungadi
I think the label of communism and socialism still has not caught up to Mamdani himself. I think voters are still unwilling to vote for a candidate that is explicitly socialist. And so the label is a potent attack. However, using him in addition to the label, I feel like cancel each other out.
- [13:49]
Kara Swisher
Adam, how do you look at that? And then, Amanda, regardless of what you
- [13:53]
Adam Gentleson
thought about Mamdami coming in, I think purely as a sort of game appreciates game. No one's doing it better than he is right now. I mean, he's really doing an incredible job. And I think that if you're trying to sort of draw lessons from it, it's his energy. You know, yesterday he was watching the World cup games and Rikers Island.
- [14:10]
Kara Swisher
And Rikers Island Yeah, you know, I
- [14:11]
Adam Gentleson
mean, this guy is everywhere and everything he's doing is conveying that he sees all of New York. You know, his love for the city is infectious. But he's also been very pragmatic in his governing choices so far. Right. I mean, he sort of distance himself from his previous comments about defunding the police. He embraced Jess Tisch, the New York City Police Commissioner, and kept her on even though a lot of folks on the left wanted him to fire her. And he embraced a lot of sort of critics on the sort of abundance, you know, Yimby movement who have a, you know, sort of deregulatory approach to housing and the ideas you need to build more to lower prices. He's really shifted in their direction and embraced a lot of their ideas. So part of what he's doing, well, you know, a lot of it's his energy, his youth, his enthusiasm, his good looks, his charm, all that comes through. But he's also governing in a smart and pragmatic way. And I think those two things together. The last point I'd make is that crime is way down. He's not dealing with huge influxes of immigrants being shipped up from Texas. And I think some of the fundamental conditions for his affordability message to break through are those sorts of things of having, you know, New Yorkers feeling like they have basic security in their homes, in their neighborhood, in their everyday lives. That really clears the way for that focus on affordability and day to day life improvements.
- [15:16]
Amanda Littman
Amanda, I would add one other thing, which is that he helps the credibility gap that Democrats have right now. You know, within eight days of taking office, he did that press conference where he announced the expansion of 3K and beginning a pilot program for 2K towards universal childcare in the city. He's working towards fast and free buses. He is frozen the rent. You know, whether you maybe liked those policies or not, which, especially as a parent of toddlers, love the universal childcare, it is really proof that you can keep your promises. And I think one of the challenges the Democratic Party has right now is even if you promise the moon, voters don't believe we'll deliver it. So I honestly think making him the face of the party in many ways, as someone who promises to do big things and then actually gets them done, helps close that cred gap, which we're going to have a big problem with going into 2028, because all of these people running for Congress right now, they're promising big legislation. They're not going to be able to govern until Trump is no longer president. So it's one of the challenges of this moment.
- [16:13]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it is. So every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours.
- [16:18]
Amanda Littman
Hi, I'm Liz Smith and I am a Democratic strategist and adviser to majority
- [16:23]
Roshni Nedungadi
Democrats in the bench. My question for you is, since 2024, we have seen Democratic voters embrace a lot of anti establishment candidates and insurgent
- [16:34]
Amanda Littman
candidates and all of the energy around them.
- [16:36]
Kara Swisher
But of course, we've seen the pitfalls
- [16:38]
Roshni Nedungadi
with this, with the Maine Senate race.
- [16:40]
Kara Swisher
So my question for you is, how
- [16:42]
Roshni Nedungadi
do Democrats harness that energy? And given your preferences, what do you
- [16:47]
Kara Swisher
think the basic vetting standards or thresholds
- [16:51]
Amanda Littman
should be for outsider candidates going forward?
- [16:53]
Roshni Nedungadi
So we avoid another Platner type situation.
- [16:57]
Kara Swisher
Adam, Amanda and then Roshni.
- [16:59]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah, I think this is where you can sort of envision a big tent. Right? This is where big tentism, which is sort of a core principle for us at the Searchlight Institute, really comes through, which is like, you know, welcome DSA into the party. But for folks who are running in tougher races, they should have the anti establishment vibe. They should criticize Democratic leadership because it very much deserves to be criticized. But then don't take some of these far left positions that are going to be hard to defend in swing states and purple states. You know, Maine is still pretty much a blue state. Kamala Harris won it by, I think, seven points. You know, so Platner could have probably gotten away with some of those left wing positions if he hadn't had the scandals and then. Yeah, I mean, I think vetting people properly is a good idea. I mean, there were signs. It's worth doing some introspection. I mean, I supported him probably long past when there were a lot of red flags that should have signaled where this was going. We knew the circumstantial information about him having this decades long struggles with PTSD and a penchant for violence and, you know, disrespectful and dismissive attitudes towards sexual assault. I mean, like, there were signs. Right, right. And so it wasn't a shock. So the lack of vetting was bad. And then I think ignoring a lot of these signs was also a mistake in retrospect. But fortunately, we'll get a, hopefully get a good candidate in that race soon and beat Susan Collins.
- [18:10]
Kara Swisher
Amanda, so Red for Something over the
- [18:13]
Amanda Littman
last 10 years, has endorsed more than 4,000 candidates. We do deep vetting on each one. We do background checks, we do social media scrubs. We do local operatives who gut check us and Tell us the context. We've had to rescind endorsements less than 10 times in 10 years. It is possible to run a candidate recruitment program at scale that brings in people with integrity and also strong character. Now, to Adam's point about the big tent, the way we have structured this is that we are tight on values and flexible on policy, knowing that those values are going to show up differently in a city council race in New York than they might in a school board race in Alaska. That's how we were able to elect, like a DSA person to the Atlanta City Council, but also a former Republican who left the party after January 6th. So was there all the way through Trump 1 in rural Pennsylvania who's now running for State House, Andrew Harbaugh. It is possible, I do think you have to operate not as a kingmaker. I think one of the challenges that happened with Platner is they were doing, you know, mad Lib style candidate recruitment. We are looking for X kind of occupation and X demographic with X kind of political engagement because that's who we think can win. You cannot do top down king making. We have learned this. Voters smell the bullshit, they don't like it, and it inevitably backfires. As we saw in Maine. We cannot puppet master candidates anymore, if we ever could. What we have to do is empower people who say, you know what? I think I can see myself in leadership, and then give them the tools to succeed and do that in as wide as a way as we can, like throw the doors open to as many people as possible. If we try to manufacture people, we'll get either inauthentic, unvetted, or the combination of the two that voters will reject.
- [19:50]
Roshni Nedungadi
Right?
- [19:50]
Kara Swisher
Or something blows up in that case,
- [19:52]
Roshni Nedungadi
Roshni, I think that this is an opportunity for us. I mean, we saw what happened to the Republican Party when the Tea Party took over. We have those lessons to learn. We are experiencing the same groundswell of anger from our base anger and frustration. We have the opportunity now to listen to that and amend the way that we are running candidates and promoting policy and just treating our voters. And so I think we just have to stop digging in our heels and actually listen to the voters and do hard things in order to prevent candidate disaster.
- [20:31]
Kara Swisher
Candidate disaster can come in many forms though, correct? I mean, presumably this one was invented and he seemed to be a king maid essentially, rather than he was interested in doing it in the first place.
- [20:42]
Amanda Littman
And I think the flip to that is also worth noting, which was that he was up in opposition to also someone who was not, if plucked from security, chosen for this race. Like Schumer et al recruited Janet Mills who did not want to run and you can tell because she did not then throw herself into this opening now, did not really want to be campaigning, was deeply unpopular as governor and was so obviously not the right fit for an anti establishment, anti gerontocratic moment. People did not want the 78 year old governor to be like dragged out of retirement to run for office. And that I think is what made so much of the last couple months in Maine so frustrating, is that it actually didn't have to be this way. It didn't have to be Platner versus Mills and then ultimately the outcome against Collins. There was a really interesting diverse field of folks running for governor. Some of them could have run for Senate. As we're now seeing, there's a pretty exciting bench in Maine that we're starting to build up. Like there are villains on nearly every side of this story and I think it is worth like pointing to that as we go.
- [21:41]
Kara Swisher
Yes, absolutely. Schumer did try to kingmake there and made a mistake there. We'll be back in a minute. Support for this show comes from Bilt. There's no way around it. Housing is expensive. Rent, mortgage, it doesn't matter which one you're paying. Nobody likes letting that big chunk of change go every month. Bilt was created to help ease the sting. Becoming a Bilt member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. Redeem Bilt points for flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, future housing payments, and more. On top of that, you can access their agentic neighborhood concierge. It's basically an assistant in the Bilt app that connects to both your home and over 50,000 merchant partners. It can pay your rent, make dinner reservations, book fitness classes, schedule a Lyft ride, and more. It helps you out while automatically applying your member benefits along the way. BILT is not just for renters anymore. It works for mortgages now as well as when your housing payment is one of your biggest monthly expenses, you might as well earn points on it. Download the Bilt app and join membership for where you live at joinbilt.com kara that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com kara k-use our link so they know we sent you. Support for this show comes from whatnot. When you want something, you have to work for it. Nothing in life comes easy and the same can be said when you want to turn a side hustle into a lasting business. So why not get started with Whatnot? Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform. Whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury, fashion, even cookies, sellers are building real, thriving businesses anyone can sell, whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist. According to their data across Whatnot, a number of sellers making over $1 million a year has doubled. And people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. That's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers. When one of our producers tried Whatnot as a buyer, she was surprised about how much she liked their livestream buying process. The chat rooms and the real time reaction from sellers made the whole thing kind of thrilling. Whatnot has found that buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, and that time is spent more than just browsing. They're engaging, buying, building, commuting and coming back as a seller. You go live, show off the products in real time and turn what you love into real income. Search Whatnot W h a T N o t in the App Store download and you can start selling right away. Support for this show comes from Quince A nice linen set lets you get away with a lot of outfit repetitions in the summer. You could wear the same one to a laid back barbecue or upscale seaside restaurant and still feel classy. For elevated summer wardrobe pieces, check out Quints. They offer just that and they use premium materials like European linen, organic cotton and washable silk without the traditional retail markup. Their 100% European linen pants, dresses and tops are the pieces you'll reach for all summer long. They're lightweight, effortless to style, and start at just $32. They also have beautiful 14k gold jewelry that adds a subtle finishing touch to any outfit. And it's not just clothing. Quince offers everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. Everything is affordable too. All of Quince's items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. In fact, I have used my Quince suitcase at least four or five times this summer. It's simple to use and it's very durable. I also use their shirts and T shirts a lot this summer. They're very breathable, easy to use, and very comfortable. Comfortable make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to Quince.com Kara for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Kara. For free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Kara the next big test will be Michigan Senate primary. Progressive Abdul El Said is challenging Representative Haley Stevens, a third candidate who is trying to strike the middle ground between the two. Michigan Senator Mallory McMorrow dropped out. She just never caught on. Democrats have to hold onto the seat if they want any chance to take back the Senate. But for Progressive, it's their last chance to show one of their Senate candidates can win in a purple state. It would be a big win if he won. The primary's August 4th. What are you all watching right now? Roshni, you start and then Amanda, then Adam.
- [26:22]
Roshni Nedungadi
I've been looking at the polling. It's going back and forth, but it seems like he's gaining a lot of momentum. He is. Is running a similar playbook as Mamdani in New York City. He is money back in your pockets. Hold corporations accountable and take corporate money out of politics. Medicare for all, reducing cost of living for voters and reducing that economic crunch that voters are feeling. And he's very consistently on message with those policy points, and voters are really resonating with that message in Michigan.
- [26:57]
Kara Swisher
What about you, Amanda?
- [26:58]
Amanda Littman
I'm looking at the spending discrepancy. They have spent, I think over 50 million on behalf of Haley Stevens. She is outspending, I'll say it, I believe 10 to 1 at this point. If that's how much you have to spend to get her over the finish line in the primary. Is there going to be the enthusiasm for her in the general if she wins this? I don't know.
- [27:18]
Kara Swisher
So that's what you're looking at is this amount of money.
- [27:20]
Amanda Littman
I'm keeping an eye on that of
- [27:21]
Roshni Nedungadi
like, how do you.
- [27:22]
Amanda Littman
Can you, again, can you kingmake in a state like this, Adam?
- [27:27]
Adam Gentleson
I'm looking at whether El Said decides to make some of the pragmatic choices in the way that Mamdani has in order to appeal to a broader audience as we approach the general election. Because he was pressed on a CNN interview recently on his previous comments supporting Defund the police, and he stood by them. And I thought that was unfortunate. There are real electability concerns, but it's not about anything about him as a person. It's about some of these positions that he's taken that are gonna be to defend in a Michigan general election race. Now, on the other hand, similar to the dynamic in Maine, I'm no big fan of Haley Stevens either. I don't think she's been a particularly compelling candidate. There's not a really strong electability argument for her either, because her past performance, her numbers are okay, but they're not amazing. So it's another one of these dynamics where the choice is difficult. Elsie is probably a better political athlete. He's very talented. He's great on social media. But he has taken some positions that unless he starts making some pragmatic choices and there's still time left for him to do so, I do think those things are going to be liabilities in a general election.
- [28:24]
Kara Swisher
Do either of you think, Amanda, do you think that or Roshni.
- [28:27]
Amanda Littman
I think he has some liabilities. I go back and forth a little bit because on the one hand, like, if he genuinely does believe we should defund the police or whatever statement he's saying, like, there is some value in really saying what you believe.
- [28:37]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [28:38]
Amanda Littman
Even if he knows that it's not a practical position to take. And I think part of that is it can signal to people that they can trust you. So, you know, I think this is where you get into some tension here of do you contort your policies for an electorate or do you still true to what you value? Like. Like, it's a tough call, and I think you have to be a really talented communicator to be able to do it.
- [28:57]
Adam Gentleson
Well, Mamdame just 100% reversed himself on, you know, apologizing to the. To the New York City police officers and just distance himself from. Defund the police. And as we've talked about here, he's wildly popular and doing a great job, so I think it's possible to do it well.
- [29:11]
Kara Swisher
He's already mayor, though.
- [29:12]
Adam Gentleson
He's already mayor. But, you know, listen, woke one was crazy. Everybody said a lot of stuff that they probably didn't get caught up in the moment. I think there's also a level of forgiveness of saying, hey, listen, we all got a little carried away there. And with the benefit of hindsight, I've decided to sort of reevaluate those things, you know, mind people changing their mind if they're open and honest about their reasoning there.
- [29:29]
Amanda Littman
Yeah. I think it comes to whether he can like, articulate how he got to a new place. And I think Mamdani is able to do it in part because he has the trust of voters. I don't say he does. Like, does has not earned that yet. I think he's still got a little bit of work to do there.
- [29:41]
Kara Swisher
Barashi, do people. Are people allowed to change their mind even if it's not genuine? Necessarily.
- [29:47]
Roshni Nedungadi
I think if it's a genuine change, then yes, they are allowed. Voters really, really value authenticity in Canada. And to voters, that means staying true to your beliefs. And so I think if you can explain to voters, here's why I believed in defund the police and here is why I have now changed my mind. That's not just, you know, I saw poll numbers that say it's unpopular and so now I'm going to change my mind on it or my big corporate donors have told me this is not a popular position for me to hold. So now I'm going to flip flop on it. If they can display that level of authenticity, I think it's totally appropriate to change your mind.
- [30:29]
Kara Swisher
All right, let's talk about what's driving the rise of these insurgent candidates. Amanda, like you mentioned, run for something saw a record number of people sign up to run for office after the 2024 election, mainly because they were angry at the Democratic Party. Talk about specific ways these people felt the party was failing them and how it's driving where we are. I mean, angry is one thing, but particularly what's the specific thing.
- [30:51]
Amanda Littman
When I look back at 25 and 26, the biggest moments we saw for candidate recruitment were first big wave of doge fir frustration with the federal government and like, how could you let people lose their jobs? And a lot of it was laid off federal workers who had public service experience and wanted to run in a different way. The second was Schumer's failure to resolve things during the first shutdown fight. They were pissed. They're like, how can you hand off our government to this guy? I thought we said that this was the end of democracy. If this is actually an existential crisis, why are you playing games with him? The third big moment was Mandani's like, after Mamdani won in June of last year, we had 10,000 people sign up in those two weeks. I think part of that was his joy, the inspiration, but also this idea that the establishment is not unbeatable. They just go unchallenged and you can take them on if you try. The fourth big one was right after the elections in the fall when you see people like, yes, Mandani, but also Spanberger, Mikey, Sheryl in New Jersey just like, oh, yeah, yeah, people can do this. Good people can run and good people can win. Now I will say the thing that I have come back to a bunch over the last year is how much housing comes up in these conversations. And in particular, young people feeling like Democrats have not done enough to make it possible. To buy a home. They have not done enough for renters. And it is, I think, part of a larger sense that young people do not have agency over their lives. They don't have an ability to choose where they live, where they work, how they live, if they can start a family. Housing is the number one issue people are talking about when they talk about running for office. And I think it's connected to how young voters are feeling.
- [32:24]
Kara Swisher
That's a very good point. The political strategist now, James Carville, recently unloaded on these Democratic socialists and progressive candidates trying to challenge incumbents. He said they were, quote, so fucking stupid. I don't know what to say about it. Adam, you mentioned the need for a big ten approach. Do you care what Carville has to say about this? Speaking of gerontocracy, to what extent is he emblematic of the generational divide that's animating some of these candidates?
- [32:46]
Adam Gentleson
I think he's very emblematic of the generational divide. You know, I think he's wrong on this. Look, you know, there was a picture on Twitter the other day of a DSA meeting, right? And there were two things that I took away from it. One was that half the people in the room were wearing face masks, right? And so in July of 2026, that is an indication that a lot of these people are not representative of the broader American public. Right. But the other thing that was equally important, if not more important, was that the room was packed and you had 50 or so people, you know, deeply committed to the civic process, who care deeply about issues, who are debating Robert's Rules of Order and all these sort of arcane procedures that the DNC should be extremely jealous of, that level of commitment and energy and organization. And so we may not agree on every issue, but that passion and that commitment has a place in our big tent, and it must have a place in our big tent. And we can all disagree on issues and say what we believe and where we draw lines and distinguish ourselves. And what's right for New York City is not right for Texas. But that energy is incredibly valuable, and we would be very dumb as a party to try to run it out of the party.
- [33:49]
Kara Swisher
Why are people like him doing that, then, Amanda?
- [33:52]
Amanda Littman
It threatens people like his power. I mean, the institutions will always protect himself. Carville and many other of the older leaders like him are creatures of these institutions. They have built them from the ground up. They are scared when we talk about the leaders who got us into this mess will not be the ones to get us out of it. We also mean people like him. This is not to say he did not do some good things in his service, but that dude does not understand what it's like to be a 20 or 30 something in the United States right now. He does not understand why people are angry. He and so many others of his sort of generation of leaders, both literally and figuratively, are so removed from where people are. And I would just posit, if you don't like dsa, it is possible for the establishment wings of the party or the old guard, such as it is, to offer a different vision. Like they could avail themselves of selling something that would solve the problems. And speaking to the anger people feel, the fact that they have instead chosen to punch left or to, you know, blame the young people who want these wild and crazy things. Like, make an argument.
- [34:52]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I made that argument to one of them. Go ahead, Roshni.
- [34:55]
Roshni Nedungadi
I would add that I think the older generation too often minimizes the intelligence of young voters. And because a lot of young voters get their information on social media or from their friends, assume that it's not as good of information as they're getting in newspapers or on cable tv. And at least what we're seeing in our research and talking to young folks that could not be farther from the truth, they're so well informed on the issues, they really understand what's going on. They are just saying consistently over and over again, they're fed up with the system. And so I think it's a really wrong take.
- [35:33]
Amanda Littman
Right?
- [35:33]
Kara Swisher
I do. Again, I think of my sons, they're very well informed. They just don't agree with him. That's. You know what I mean? And that's. It's really hard because one of the things I said, you tell young people to be involved and to vote, and when they do it, you tell them their vote is stupid. Like, I don't understand. They're doing what you said and you just don't like their choice, which is very different. I also had political journalist Sid Herndon on the show a few months ago. He talked about how voters now don't fit into neat ideological boxes. I think that's another truism. And it's more important for canonists to be clearly articulate in their values than it is to fit neatly into an ideological box. First, Roshani, how does that square what you're seeing in the research with young and minority voters who've been moving away from the Democratic Party and what animates them now?
- [36:17]
Roshni Nedungadi
I think we've heard a lot about young men, particularly young men of color over the last few election cycles, moving further away from the Democratic Party or voting more for Republicans. And so we've undertaken a lot of research over the last couple of years with our partners at Third Way and at Black Amendment Vote to dig into what's going on there, what is leading to these votes. And now that we're seeing these young men slowly move back towards the Democratic Party, what is driving that as well? And what we found a lot is young men, young people are severely economically strained. They heard Democrats in 2024 say, the economy is fine, it's getting better, we don't have to worry about it. And so they were looking for candidates in that time, Trump, who were making arguments that identified the pain that they were experiencing and found some sort of solution for it.
- [37:16]
Kara Swisher
Now they're hearing Trump say that now
- [37:18]
Roshni Nedungadi
they have noticed that he is not going to help them at all. He's making their lives a lot worse. And so they're looking for an alternative. And I think that's where some of these insurgent candidates, candidates, too, have come in. But I think an important point there is to note that at no point, even while they were voting for Trump, did these young men, particularly young men of color, identify as MAGA or Republican. They're still overwhelmingly progressive or Democratic or moderate. They just needed a place to land in the last election because they didn't feel like they had a home in the Democratic Party. And so I think what we're seeing is more and more young people are not identifying cleanly with parties in the way that they have in the past. And so we have to be a little bit more flexible with our messaging and our policy positions.
- [38:11]
Kara Swisher
Now, Adam, you had some examples of what Roshni was talking about in your book. Can you share some of those?
- [38:16]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think the overarching frame here is that the defining feature of the American people is their ideological heterodoxy. Right? The American voters are not rigidly ideological. And so they don't take all their positions from the left or the right. They mix things from column A and column B. And so when you've seen candidates who've been successful, especially in resisting attacks, as being socialist or Republican smears, it's because they mix those positions together and convey this heterodoxy that connects with the American people and makes people think, oh, when you face a tough decision, you're going to be an independent thinker, you're a different kind of Democrat, you're going to Think like me. And so, you know, when you look around the country now, the candidates who are succeeding in some of these redder areas, people like James Talarico, are mixing in non traditional Democratic positions with their sort of liberal values. So Talarico running in Texas is talking about how valuable the oil and gas industry is to the Texas economy. It supports hundreds of thousands of working class jobs. Hundreds of thousands of working class Hispanic men, you know, are employed by the oil and gas industry. And so, you know, for a candidate like him who clearly is deeply committed to liberal values, if you're gonna win in a state like Texas, you gotta mix in some of those heterodox positions. And that's part of why I think we're seeing him succeed.
- [39:23]
Kara Swisher
So Amina, one of the things that's really isn't usually a top concern for voters, but like we talked about support for Israel and taking money from APAC PAC is still really dividing Democrats. You just saw this vote in the House which was unprecedented. I think even if it's not voters top concern like the economy. Talk about the role the issue of support of Israel is playing now on the campaign trail.
- [39:45]
Amanda Littman
I think it's twofold. One is that it's a moral litmus test, especially for young voters, but even for older voters too, this sense that can you call a spade a spade? Can you call what we are seeing in Gaza a genocide as it so clearly is? Can you. Do you see the atrocity and can you name it? And I think for younger voters in particular, that kind of moral clarity is necessary. The second is the way that AIPAC is trying to buy elections speaks to the larger problem of money in politics. For people feeling like their voice can be drowned out by amount of money, that feels undemocratic and unfair. I think AIPAC has become the boogeyman for that. But they are not alone here. We're seeing that from crypto, we're seeing that from tech.
- [40:25]
Kara Swisher
I think Elon Musk has $90 million in right now.
- [40:28]
Amanda Littman
Yeah, them the gambling. But I think the combination of the moral clarity around the issue and the money being spent that is so clearly removed from where the American people are. Which I think is also the challenge here.
- [40:40]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute. Support for the show comes from Groons. Summer can disrupt our routines with busy weekends that are full of travel and events. And with everything going on, it can be hard to remember to stick to your wellness habits habits. While groons is one of the wellness habits, you don't have to think about it can be the easiest, tastiest part of your busy schedule. Grunds are a convenient, comprehensive formula in one delicious daily pack of gummy bears. This isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy or a prebiotic. It's all of these things and then some at a fraction of the price. And it tastes great. They're able to pack in 20 vitamins and minerals in a daily pack with 60 ingredients, all of which include nutrient dense and whole foods. A Groon's pack or also contains 6 grams of prebiotic fiber to help you visualize it. That's equivalent to more than two cups of broccoli. Grun's ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. You can't fit the amount of nutrients Groons does into one daily gummy, which is why it comes in a pack. Save 52% off with the code Kara Groons Co that's code Kara K A R A G R U N S C Co.
- [41:51]
Adam Gentleson
Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.
- [41:53]
Kara Swisher
Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill?
- [41:57]
Adam Gentleson
It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately though, Mint Story is better. Every plan $15 a month, even unlimited.
- [42:08]
Roshni Nedungadi
That's it.
- [42:08]
Adam Gentleson
Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
- [42:14]
Amanda Littman
of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or $180 for 1212 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See Terms hey, it's Christy from Lululemon. I'm here at the office and we just dropped some really fun new summer
- [42:27]
Roshni Nedungadi
colors in the Flow Y styles. If you're like me, you've loved the Flow Y tank and bra for years
- [42:32]
Amanda Littman
and as of this year it also comes in a dress and a crop tank.
- [42:36]
Roshni Nedungadi
These are made in our buttery soft
- [42:38]
Amanda Littman
nulou fabric and my favorite part is the built in bra. It makes it super easy to wear for yoga or honestly as an everyday basic. You can find Flow Y styles in store or online@lululemon.com we're just a few
- [42:51]
Kara Swisher
months out from the midterms. The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to navigate these divides in real time if they want to retake power in Congress. Most people feel they have a lock on the House. We'll see. Senate is in play. I think that's probably the fairest way to say it. But the big fear is that Democrats are facing a moment like the Republicans did in 2010 and 2012 during the tea Party wave, when unqualified or just bad candidates cost them a Senate majority. Although 2010 was still a wave election for Republicans. Let's be clear. And when you're looking at how can Democrats avoid that same fate between now and November? Although I think the candid quality is pretty high from what I. Looking around the country.
- [43:26]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah. I mean, you know, I lived through those elections. Candidates like Christine o' Donnell in Delaware, who famously had to run an ad saying, I'm not a witch, you know, losing what should have been a winnable seat for Republicans because Mike Castle, she beat Mike Castle.
- [43:39]
Kara Swisher
Being a witch today might win you a seat, but go.
- [43:42]
Adam Gentleson
That's true. Times change. You know, she should. Hey, she should make another run, you know, so. Right. So we don't have anybody that's that bad in terms of candidate quality. But I think, you know, this is why we really got to hone in on questions of electability. We only have a few primaries left, and I really genuinely believe that any of the major candidates in any of these primaries we have left on the Senate side can win. Right. Especially in an environment that is really strong up for us on the fundamentals, people are deeply upset about Trump. They're really angry, they hate the economy. All that makes for a good midterm for Democrats. We just have to get really smart and not let. These people need to be more focused on winning an election than winning an argument. And if Abdul El Said is the nominee, his job is to beat Mike Rogers, the Republican. Right. And put that first above everything else, even if it means conceding some issues on factional purity. You gotta focus on winning. It would be not in his interest or the interest of his faction for him to lose. So everybody's just gotta get really smart as we turn into general election season and focus on winning. And I think we don't have any candidates who are incapable of doing that as long as they put beating the Republican over winning. These factional arguments.
- [44:44]
Kara Swisher
Amanda, does money play as a role, do you think? There is enormous. I mean, Ken Griffin, Elon, the tech people are putting a lot in. Trump has some slush fund. Is that going to make a difference? It didn't make a difference in Wisconsin when Elon tried to get those judges put in. And it didn't make a difference for Tom Steyer in California, for example.
- [45:02]
Amanda Littman
I think money matters to the extent that candidates and their outside Partners have the ability to run strong campaigns. I do not think you can buy elections the way that you used to. I think it is much, much harder to make the case that simply outspending your opponent will guarantee an outcome. I think especially in this where Democrats and Democratic voters will ready to crawl over broken glass to vote. And their job is gonna be convince Republican voters that Trump's not on the ballot. You may not love the economy right now, you're sort of souring on this, but still show up. It's just a much harder case to make. I don't know if there's enough money that can sell a shitty product.
- [45:37]
Roshni Nedungadi
I would add too, that voters are a lot more skeptical of information that we're feeding them these days. With the rise of AI and information coming on social media, they wanna know who is respons the message and why they're spending all of this money on political ads. And we hear that so often in focus groups when we test messages, when we test ads, when we test content. Who's responsible for this? What's their angle? And so I think voters are a lot more skeptical when they look at the amount of money that's being spent in politics now.
- [46:08]
Kara Swisher
Absolutely. So a lot more progressive candidates are campaigning on the message abolish ice. A poll in March showed about half voters support the idea. I think it's higher now. And we just saw two more fatal shootings this month. It looks like it's animating a lot of voters. Is that the case? And Roshni, you first. What are your surveys revealed about ICE enforcement as a vehicle? And then, Amanda and Adam, please weigh in.
- [46:31]
Roshni Nedungadi
I think voters hold a very nuanced view on this, actually, in the same way that they do around the slogan defund the public police. They very much are supportive of having some sort of immigration enforcement mechanism in the country, but they are very, very unsupportive of the actions that Trump's ICE is taking in murdering Americans and forcing people into camps and kicking people out of the country. They do not like the way that ICE is operating. I think this is especially true among Latino communities right now and why he's losing so much ground that he gained in the last election among Latino communities. They are seeing their neighbors and their friends and family being targeted. And so they voters do hold a nuanced view in this. And I think running on the idea of abolishing or reforming ICE is a popular position for candidates now.
- [47:30]
Amanda Littman
Amanda, I totally agree. I also think this is one of those places where the Democratic Party leadership's failure to show sufficient anger really matters. Like Chris Van Hollen traveling to El Salvador and. And like, putting his body on the line, or even Brad Lander doing the same in New York. Some of it is performative, but voters want to see that you're validating their feelings, that this is an atrocity, that this is horrific, that ICE should not be able to murder people in the streets. I also think the flip is also true, which is that voters have seen now over the last 18 months, totally ordinary people stand up against ice in a way that I think is deeply inspiring and in some ways restores some faith in the American people and in this idea that, like, you could be responsible for your neighbor. That while our elites and our billionaires have been deeply cowardly, ordinary Americans have been incredibly brave. So watching our leadership fail gives them an opportunity to rise.
- [48:23]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah, I think we did a poll at Searchlight after the shooting in Minnesota, and it showed two things. One was that ICE was unpopular. The other was that people still wanted interior enforcement of our immigration laws. Right. And so however you message it, you have to make clear. And what people are saying is not likely like this. Right. They want interior enforcement, but they don't. They're horrified, rightly so, by what they're seeing. So they want enforcement that abides by the rule of the law, that treats people humanely, that isn't pulling people out of cars and certainly isn't shooting them in the head, you know, for just trying to get out of the way. So that's the line that Democrats have to walk where, you know, they should absolutely be harsh in their criticism of these atrocities that we're seeing and this incredibly reckless approach to interior enforcement while still making clear that we are a nation of laws and we do need to interior enforcement of our immigration laws. It just has to be humane, and it has to abide by the rule of law.
- [49:17]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. It's interesting because I do think it's a communications issue. There was a really interesting video, some guy going on about what happened in Maine, a Mainer. And he's like, well, if it was in this country legally, he's in trouble. Da, da. And then the guy was like, well, you know, he was in this country legally. And he goes, oh. And he goes. And he was just trying to leave. Oh. And he had all his papers. Right. Oh. And it was so interesting to watch in real time this guy who was very loud shift rather quickly. He was actually shifting. It was an interesting moment to watch real time persuasion.
- [49:47]
Adam Gentleson
You know, it's amazing to See? Yeah.
- [49:49]
Kara Swisher
Now you all have two more questions. You all talked about the need to prioritize winning over ideological purity. But, you know, some of these progressive candidates, as they're pivoting to the general. How can they appeal to a broader electorate without compromising so much that they no longer seem genuine, especially in purple states and districts? I'd love each of you to answer. Then I have one final question.
- [50:08]
Amanda Littman
You know, I think keeping it focused on the problems you want to solve and like speaking from a place of values, understanding that if you are clear about what your goal is, there's a lot of different ways to get at that goal. And that's kind of what the policy conversation is about, is we can all agree that everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. What are the different ways we can get there? And when candidates have a strong sense of values and of what they believe, the conversation about tactics and how you communicate that is much easier. I think candidates get screwed, and we see them fail at this when they are campaign or themselves have to spend time figuring out what is it I believe as opposed to how do I communicate what I believe?
- [50:45]
Kara Swisher
Adam?
- [50:46]
Adam Gentleson
Yeah, I think part of being authentic is saying what you believe. And most people don't hold ideas that are consistent with an ideology on every single topic. Right. And so liberals are going to have mostly liberal views, and that's great, and that's what the role we play in this system. But they probably have a few things that they believe personally that does diverge a little bit from sort of leftist purity tests, and they should just say that, too. Right. So that's part of what being authentic means, is saying all the things you believe out loud. And that's the right balance for a general election, where you're mostly going to agree with the left, but on a few things, you're going to have an independent point of view. And that is authentic because it's what you believe. And it also demonstrates to general election voters and swing voters who might have voted for Trump last time, that you're going to be someone who thinks for themselves and who's going to be guided by your own core values and commitments, not by a rigid ideology.
- [51:38]
Roshni Nedungadi
And I also think outreach for candidates is paramount, making sure that they are speaking to voters, where they are addressing the issues that are important to them and coming in at the level that they understand those issues. I mean, for example, Mamdani in New York, AAPI voters had been voting more and more Republican over the course of the last few years. And Mamdani in the general election drove AAPI turnout higher than it has been in New York City in years and actually got 87% of the South Asian vote in New York City, which is much more than Democratic candidates have been getting over the last few years. So having an authentic candidate and then having a candidate that is willing to go into their communities and authentically speak to their issues and problem solve with them is the key there.
- [52:30]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. I had suggested that to a presidential candidate. I'm like, go where they are, not where you are. Like they were Nantucket. And I was like, leave Nantucket immediately. As we head into the 2028 presidential election, the eventual Democratic nominee is gonna have to appeal to both sides of this divide and the broader electorate to win back the White House. Is this the start of a serious alignment for the party or just another cyclical swing to the left that could prove politically costly like it was for Vice President Kamala Harris in 2024?
- [52:59]
Adam Gentleson
I think this is an opportunity to build a lasting realignment and dominate not just the next election, but the next generation. For Democrats, it requires us to make some smart choices, starting now with the midterms and going into 2028. I have this book coming out called Supermajority. And the idea is that this is what we need to think. We need to think about how to build a super majority and reject these narrow majorities that we've been trapped in for the last ten years or so. And that means thinking about how to win in places like Nebraska and Texas and Ohio and the Dakotas where Democrats used to hold Senate seats. And if we make the choices we need to, to do that, we can build durable power that's not just going to swing back and forth because you can't. You know, everybody here wants to pass big ambitious change, but you really can't do it on narrow majorities. I'd be the first to say we should eliminate the filibuster in the Senate. My first book was about that. You know, we should definitely get rid of it. But you're going to need large Senate majorities to pass big ambitious bills and to reshape the courts, which are going to strike down anything we pass if we don't reshape them anyway. Right. So we need to be smart and thoughtful about this and say, look, we will, will accept divergence from purity test, especially in purple and red states, because it's. The cost benefit is a no brainer and we need to be smart and strategic starting now with these midterms. But taking that mindset forward into 2028 as we think about how to be Republicans and win back the White House.
- [54:17]
Roshni Nedungadi
ROSHNI At a base level, the Democratic Party brand is wildly unpopular right now. So it is ripe for a realignment and to start from the beginning. And all of the populist and progressive policies that we've been discussing over the last are wildly popular not only with progressives, self proclaimed progressives, but also with moderates and independents and even some right leaning voters. And so to build that big tent back for the Democratic Party, I think it is time for that realignment.
- [54:48]
Amanda Littman
Amanda I don't know if any of your listeners are romance novel readers, but there's a trope in romance novels about, you know, the looks like a cinnamon roll but could actually kill you of like the nice guy with like a little bit mean. I think that's where the Democratic Party is going in the sense that I suspect after this cycle we are going to be looking for a national leader who is both like kind and earnest and optimistic and imagines a world that is better but also tough on accountability and is not going to mess around with holding Trump and the Republican Party accountable for what has been done. And the, the winning candidates, sort of winning part of the party that can combine those two things is gonna be the part that moves us forward.
- [55:29]
Kara Swisher
All right then I can't resist. Who's your cinnamon roll and who is Adam and who is your Saroshi?
- [55:35]
Amanda Littman
Oh, I think there's, I think Ossoff has certainly got it. I think AOC's got it if she wants it. I think Warnock, low key is a sleeper. He's got it if he wants it. There's lots of variations of cinnamon rolls with a little bit of could actually kill you underneath.
- [55:48]
Adam Gentleson
Adam I'm shaking my head because those are literally the three that I would name. I mean, I think all of them are. I would also add, I would not be shocked if there's a total outsider candidate who takes us all by surprise and swoops in with that outsider energy, given how much passion there is for that right now.
- [56:04]
Kara Swisher
Anyone you can think of, you know,
- [56:07]
Adam Gentleson
someone like Mark Cuban from the, from the who has a business background but deeply held. He's not wrong principle.
- [56:11]
Kara Swisher
Just so you know, we talk about it every day.
- [56:13]
Adam Gentleson
That's news. You know, this is me just sort of fantasizing. But you know, I saw Matthew McConaughey, you know, getting in on the action a little bit with the 250th anniversary, he's shown interest in politics occasionally.
- [56:23]
Kara Swisher
Can I give you some advice. Go listen to my interview with him and then you'll. You'll change your mind.
- [56:28]
Adam Gentleson
Okay, I'll do that right after this. Well, you know, but someone like that, I think who's, who's sort of, you know, comfortable in their own skin, good on social media, you know, but. But has it has a commitment to American values and wants to do more, you know, we'll see. We'll see.
- [56:39]
Roshni Nedungadi
Yeah.
- [56:40]
Kara Swisher
Roshni, you finished?
- [56:41]
Roshni Nedungadi
I mean, I very much agree with the list of those three, and I think those are the three names that we hear voters bring up most often in focus groups as well. When we ask who are candidates who are working for you right now, we hear those three names pop up, up a lot.
- [56:54]
Kara Swisher
There's a lot of Georgia in there. A lot of cinnamon rolls from Georgia. All right, thank you three all so much, Adam, Amanda, and Roshni for being here today. I really appreciate it.
- [57:03]
Roshni Nedungadi
Thank you.
- [57:03]
Adam Gentleson
Thanks for having us.
- [57:04]
Amanda Littman
Thanks.
- [57:06]
Kara Swisher
Today's show was produced by Michelle Aloy, Kathryn Milsop, Madeline LaPlante Duvey, Megan Burney, and Kaitlyn Lynch. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Eamonn Whalen, Dave Shaw, Corrine Ruff and Julie Julia Sharpe Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you are not a witch. Or maybe you are. If not, you're part of the establishment. So you need to go. Actually, where you need to go is wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.
- [57:54]
Roshni Nedungadi
Most of us are one good deal away from finally replacing that worn out rug, fixing up the backyard, or getting the bedroom we actually want. Good news. That deal's almost here. Wayfair's Black Friday in July sale. Get up to 80% off area rugs and up to 60% off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget and space. Plus free shipping. Black Friday in July ends July 27th. Shop today@wayfair.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [58:25]
Kara Swisher
Starting a business can seem like a
- [58:26]
Amanda Littman
daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond. Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer the
- [58:53]
Kara Swisher
right window treatments change everything.
- [58:55]
Adam Gentleson
Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com We've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real Design professionals free samples zero pressure right now. Get up to 40% off site wide plus get a free professional measure. @blinds.com rules and restrictions apply.