Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher

Episode: Beyond ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’: Margaret Atwood on Memoir, Grudges, & Getting Older
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Margaret Atwood

Overview

In this lively and insightful conversation, journalist Kara Swisher interviews legendary Canadian author and poet Margaret Atwood to explore Atwood’s expansive life and career beyond her iconic novel The Handmaid’s Tale. Now 86 and with her first memoir (Book of Lives: A Memoir of Sorts) just published, Atwood discusses the personal and historical influences that have shaped her writing, her complicated relationship with feminism, her views on contemporary politics, technology, and aging, all with her characteristic humor and sharp wit.

Main Discussion Points

The Memoir and Its Striking Cover

• Atwood’s memoir is nearly 600 pages, delving into her past, her family, and how life informed her work.
• The cover, featuring Atwood in a dramatic pink outfit with her finger to her lips, was an unplanned result of a playful photo session.
  • “So you do. Because you’re weak spined like me. And here’s the matching gloves. … you start fooling around and you go, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. So that is Speak no evil. That’s on the front of the book.” (Margaret Atwood, 06:07)
• Postcards were created with different “hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil” images. Atwood jokes about not keeping the outfit.

Writing Memoir in Older Age

• Atwood waited to write a memoir until people she felt might be hurt, like her parents and long-time partner Graeme Gibson, had died.
• On memoirs written by the young:
  • “Memoirs written by younger people are usually center around an episode, an incident, a motif.” (Margaret Atwood, 09:15)
• Motif of Atwood’s memoir: “You never know.”

Revisiting the Past

• Atwood describes encountering “the benevolent dead” (her term) while revisiting unpublished early works.
  • “The benevolent ghosts are people that you liked and meant you well. And malevolent ones are people you didn’t like who didn’t mean you well.” (10:33)
• She laughs at the bad quality of some old writings:
  • “Thank you, Providence, for not publishing this work.” (11:23)
• Personal narrative changes with age; we rewrite our own stories as we understand events differently over time.

Childhood, Isolation, and Becoming a Writer

• Early life spent largely in Canada’s forests, instilling resourcefulness (“If something breaks, fix it. And if you don’t have the part, improvise... Never throw out a bendy piece of wire.” – 14:59)
• Rainy days meant reading and writing, fostering her love of poetry and stories.
• Atwood’s first collection: “Rhyming Cats” (written at age 6).

The Poet’s Calling

• Atwood frames poetry as something that calls you, not something you choose:
  • “Poetry says, come with me, and you either say yes or no. But if poetry doesn’t say, come, come with me, there’s no point.” (18:24)
• Childhood interests were wide—poetry, but also influenced by world events (Hungarian Revolution poems) and literary precedents like T.S. Eliot.

The Duality of the Writer’s Persona

• Atwood notes that every writer has multiple selves, joking hers split into “Peggy Nature” (her camp nickname) and “Margaret the writer.”
• “People say, well, what’s the connection? And I usually cite Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So I’m the Dr. Jekyll person and Margaret is the Mr. Hyde.” (Margaret Atwood, 27:22)
• Humor is a key, often overlooked, part of her writing—even in The Handmaid’s Tale.

Writing and Politics: Hope and History

• Atwood resists labels like “prophet,” instead calling herself a good guesser based on patterns of history: “The future. There are lots of possibilities … and then there are completely unexpected things that alter it a lot.” (41:04)
• Dictatorships often follow historical models already present in a society; in America, a religious leadership would be most likely.

Feminism, Factionalism, and Nuance

• The complexities and internal contradictions of feminism are discussed:
  • “Wikipedia … [lists] 75 different kinds of feminism. So when somebody says, are you a feminist? I always say, what kind did you have in mind?” (37:07)
• Atwood endured factional infighting in the women’s movement, but also notes the real gains of the 1970s (“your own credit card even if you’re married”).
• She critiques both those who idolize her lifestyle as feminist and those who overlook her personal desires (she wanted more children, marriage—but her partner did not).

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Growing Older and Perspective

• “If you’re lucky, you get older. If you’re not lucky, you die. … You either become more forgiving … or you become more set in your ways and curmudgeonly.” (12:42)

On the Writer’s Dual Nature

• “The writer side of people is usually somewhat more intense … somewhat darker in its imaginings.” (28:06)
• “The Handmaid’s Tale has a number of jokes.” (29:13)

On Historical Patterns

• “So you change the flag, you change the statutes, but really the structure is pretty similar.” (44:27)

On the Perils of Prophecy

• “There isn’t anyone [who can see the future].” (41:06)

On Technology and Social Media

• Atwood reflects on the early promise of Twitter, its descent into toxicity, and how tech titans have become command-like figures alongside authoritarians.

On the Role of the Left and the Right

• Atwood says she’s received more criticism from the left, who want her to preach their “sermon,” than from the right, who generally ignore books like The Handmaid’s Tale:
  • “When it came out as a movie in 1990 … we did get death threats for that. … And I said, why didn’t we get them for the book? … Well, those people don’t read.” (59:29)

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Book Cover & “Speak No Evil” photo – 04:57–06:45
• Why write a memoir at this age? – 07:39–08:50
• Revisiting youthful writing: “the benevolent dead” – 09:39–11:38
• Childhood, resourcefulness, and creative beginnings – 13:46–15:12
• Poetry’s call and creative imitation – 18:24–19:20
• Split writerly personas: Jekyll/Hyde – 27:09–28:13
• History repeats; dictatorships and The Handmaid’s Tale – 42:09–45:55
• Feminism’s factions and Atwood’s own wishes – 37:07–39:03
• Elizabeth Warren’s question: economic rights, power, women’s status in dystopia and now – 49:45–52:07
• On leaving legacy, writing, and “Swedish death cleaning” – 62:50–64:26
• AI, energy, and the limits of technology – 67:35–68:22
• Birding, environmentalism, and future perspectives – 68:24–71:05

Politics, Power & Hope

• Atwood and Swisher discuss the cyclical dangers of authoritarianism, drawing parallels between Gilead and contemporary U.S. politics:
  • “All dictatorships do this [take away women’s economic security] … I have an even more sinister view. I don’t think it’s confined to women. I think … the powers that be … have decided that there’s too many poor people.” (50:35, 51:44)
• Atwood’s advice: watch for voter suppression and gerrymandering, and trust Americans’ capacity for resistance and repair:
  • “I think you will get out of it, but there’s going to be an awful lot of repair work. … Things never do go back to exactly the way they were before.” (53:27–53:55)

Life, Death, and Birding

• Atwood is still writing, traveling, and birding—even if she doesn’t keep a “life list.”
  • “I grew up with birding because my family just knew all that. By the way, nature will kill us before we kill it.” (68:24, 69:05)
• Her views on aging: “Mostly they’re paper objects, so if you don’t want somebody doing your thesis on this, throw it out.” (64:38)

Final Takeaways

• Atwood reveals herself as thoughtful but unsentimental, intellectually rigorous but funny, hopeful but clear-eyed about political and environmental threats.
• Kara concludes:
  • “I thought [your memoir] was joyful, which is really a nice thing. And I recommend it to a lot of people. And they’re like, isn’t Margaret Atwood depressing? I’m like, no, she is not.” (73:04)
• Atwood:
  • “So many other things are so much more depressing than me right now that I come across as actually quite bouncy.” (73:13)

For fans and newcomers alike, this episode offers a multifaceted look at one of the most influential writers of our time, still as incisive, mischievous, and resilient as ever.