← On with Kara Swisher
On with Kara Swisher
Chef Matty Matheson of ‘The Bear’ on Culinary Stardom, On and Off The Screen
00:48:44
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- [00:01]
Kara Swisher
I needed a happy interview and I hope you are. If you're not, that's just the way it's gonna go.
- [00:06]
Matty Matheson
I don't know what to say, you know, we'll see. I'm pretty happy, you know.
- [00:09]
Kara Swisher
Okay, good. I think that's your whole brand from what I understand. Hi everyone. From New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network, this is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is chef, restaurateur, cookbook, author and actor producer Matty Matheson. If you're a foodie, you've probably known about Matty for a while. He's had review worthy restaurants in Canada for more than a decade. He currently has 13 restaurants with varying cuisines. His third cookbook, Soups, Salads and Sandwiches came out in October. He has a farm and a bunch of other food based business ventures. If you aren't a foodie, you might recognize him from the Hulu FX show the Bear, which has won 21 Primetime Emmys season three, was recently nominated for five Golden Globes. Maddie got signed onto the show to be a food consult and ended up with a role and an executive producer title. No, he's not the Calvin Klein model lead Carmi, also known as Jeremy Allen White or the evil sadist chef de cuisine who demoralizes Carmy at the fancy New York restaurant. Matty plays Neil Fack, the tattooed, kind of goofy family friend who also is a handyman who starts out just hanging around the restaurant playing video games and ends up being some kind of emotional whisperer to Carmody as he's been going through what is clearly an emotional break while trying to get a Michelin star in season three. One thing that's important to me is my son Louie is a huge fan of Maddie's YouTube channel and his show Cooking Something with Matty Matheson. He has something like 1.5 million followers on YouTube and of course more across social media, especially among young people like my son, who is also an aspiring cook and may not become a chef, but he certainly loves doing it. I want to talk to Matty about his role in the Bear in front of the camera and behind the scenes. I want to talk to him about his career as someone who didn't do well in school and found his passion through cooking and why he thinks food trans translate so well to a younger YouTube audience. He's a big punk fan, but also a kitchen table philosopher of sorts. He's a really thoughtful guy. Despite his gonzo reputation, support for the show comes from ServiceNow, the AI platform for business transformation. You've heard the big hype around AI. The truth is AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. ServiceNow is the platform that puts AI to work for people across your business, removing friction and frustration for your employees, supercharging productivity for your developers, providing intelligent tools for your service agents to make customers happier. All built into a single platform you can use right now. That's why the world works with ServiceNow. Visit ServiceNow.com AI for people to learn more Support for On with Kara Swisher comes from Lingo by Abbott Talking about healthy habits is a lot easier than actually implementing them. The key is finding out what works for you and your body. That's where Lingo comes in. It's a new bio wearable that tracks your glucose in real time. It gives you personal insights and recommendations that can help you learn to eat in the way that works for you. What I like about Lingo is the ability to track a lot of different things in your day, whether it's the stress of dropping off your kid or putting too much sugar in your coffee, which is IDE every day. And I'm going to continue to do it in any cases. Knowing about the effect is really important and understanding it in a discreet, water resistant way that lasts two weeks and then is available on an app is really helpful so you can really see things in real time. So don't just eat right. Eat what's right for you with Lingo. The Lingo Glucose system is for users 18 years of age or older, not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases, including diabetes. For more information please visit hello lingo.com Support for On with Kara Swisher comes from Elf Beauty. In the corporate world, Elf Beauty is a bit of a unicorn. They're the only US publicly traded company with 78% women and 44% diversity on their board. That goes beyond the boardroom too. They work to instill that ethos across all their efforts to make a positive impact on people, products and our planet. ELF is doing it and now they're calling on the corporate world to dupe that. They believe that doing good is good for business and you can see how in ELF's 2024 impact report, visit elfbeauty.com impact to learn more.
- [04:46]
Matty Matheson
It is On.
- [04:49]
Kara Swisher
Hi Maddie, welcome. Thanks for being on on. I really appreciate you doing this. So let's talk about your cookbook. To start with. You came out with your third one in October. You already have two bestsellers in 2018, you published Maddie Matheson, a cookbook. And in 2020, homest one's more focused. Soup, salads, and sandwiches. And I guess that's what cookbook writers do. Start big and then hone in on specific courses or types of food. But in the intro to the third book you wrote something I thought was interesting. Let me read it. Sometimes cooking is scary or makes you feel uncomfortable. That's okay. Even I'm uncomfortable when I'm cooking. But the power of cooking always outweighs the fears and the anxieties. As long as the love is just a little greater than the hate, we're eating good tonight. I don't think that's what people expect with a glossy soup, sandwich, salads, cookbook. Talk about what you're trying to say there.
- [05:40]
Matty Matheson
I don't know. Every day, people are feeling feelings, and I think cooking is a way to kind of have a release. For me, it's relatively easy to cook. I don't have to really think about how I'm going to cook. It's more about what I'm going to cook. And I think a lot of people have to really think about what they're going to cook and how they're going to cook it. And I think that can be overwhelming on top of everything else that's going on in people's lives. Lives. And. Yeah, I just think that food is one of those things that is. It's kind of an uncompromising love. It's a force that nourishes you. It's a. It's a force that, you know, you get to create, and it builds character, and it builds. I don't know. I just. I really. I really love it. But it's also, like, doing it is stressful at times, you know, especially with kids and life and everything else. And then trying to manage time and manage a good meal, it can really sometimes get you in even a darker place sometimes. Or it adds to the stresses of life.
- [06:58]
Kara Swisher
Right, so tell me, what adds to the stresses of life in cooking for you? What's the greater hate? I don't know if hate's probably strong, but you wrote that.
- [07:05]
Matty Matheson
Yeah.
- [07:06]
Kara Swisher
Give me a moment that causes you hate and one that causes you love. Like an act of cooking.
- [07:12]
Matty Matheson
Well, love is easy. I think it's even. Like, last night, I made some beef stroganoff. And, yeah, I made this, like, lovely meal for everyone at home. And then my son was just like, I don't like mushrooms. My daughter Rizzo, she was like, I want shrimp. And Then Ozzy, my youngest, is like, I want pasta. And I'm like, well, you guys told me you all liked stroganoff. And we've had it multiple times. And that's why I made one meal. And, you know, the frustration sets in. And then all of a sudden, I'm trying to get them to taste it, and they don't want to taste it. And I picked the mushrooms out for my son, and then he's like, I do like the mushrooms. And you're just in this comp. Like, you're constantly in this negotiation of.
- [08:09]
Kara Swisher
Trying to short order chef.
- [08:11]
Matty Matheson
Yeah. And then also it's like, I'm doing this thing, and like, my daughter has to. You know, she's got gymnastics, my son has taekwondo.
- [08:18]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [08:19]
Matty Matheson
All these things are happening. I have to have dinner ready by 4:30. And, you know. But it's that thing where all of a sudden you're cooking with love, you're excited. The kids all said they wanted Shogun off, and then they turned their backs on you. And then it turns into like, I'm negotiating against three, you know, uncompromising forces.
- [08:41]
Kara Swisher
You know, I have four kids. I've been there. I've been there with that. Or else. We had my brother's kid. My brother's also a great cook, and one of his kids would only eat things that are white. Like, just white food, like pasta, butter, parmesan toast, things like that, which was difficult. And I was like, stop short order chefing your kids. Give them what you want. And he said, you'll see. And of course I did. But you come from kind of a punk background. Writers have called your approach gonzo.
- [09:10]
Matty Matheson
Okay.
- [09:11]
Kara Swisher
Is that how you would describe it? Sort of the shut the fuck up if you don't like it attitude. You don't sound like that at all. Who are you cooking for? What's your style? I'm thinking of, like, fucks. That's delicious. And that kind of. That it's that genre of cook. Or maybe not.
- [09:24]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I don't know. I'm like. It's funny. Cause it is like, one of those things where I've always. I've had, like, multiple types of careers around things, and I've done things a lot of the way that I've done. I've done them the way that I've done them. You know, I've made cooking videos for over 10 years now. I've always kind of been myself and spoken the way that I speak. And I'm funny. I'm this. I'm whatever. I'M loud, all that kind of stuff. But, like, I think, like, in the restaurants, it's very different. I put my actual kind of chef mind at work and do those types of things and want to be a chef, you know, and I am a chef with. With our restaurants. And. And so it is, like, one of those things where it's, like, very different hats that I'm able to kind of put on in those different scenarios of, like, the way that I am on YouTube is certainly not the way that I am in a professional kitchen in one of our restaurants. Right. And so it is, like, a very different kind of scope in each situation. And, yeah, I don't know, like, at it, like, gonzo. It's like, whatever. I. I'm like, I have no idea. I am who I am, and I've done what I've done, and I think it's just like, it all speaks for itself, you know, kind of thing of what types of restaurants I have and the vibes of those restaurants and everything that I care about and how I feel about restaurants is what we're trying to kind of emulate in these spaces is, like, what I believe is really great hospitality and really great food. And, like, that's all I'm trying to do. And I think it is, like, you know, at a younger age. When I was, like, you know, I was a chef when I was, like, 26. Right. I opened our first restaurant when I was 26 years old. I'm 42 now. You know, it's been a long kind of career of that.
- [11:19]
Kara Swisher
Let's talk about that later. You talked about how you weren't particularly good in school as a kid, and the culinary school changed your life. What do you think the environment, why a cooking environment worked where school didn't?
- [11:31]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, culinary school was an amazing thing because it. I think it was. I wasn't good at. I wasn't good at high school. I wasn't good at, like, going to math class, going to science class, going to whatever the heck it was. Nothing clicked. You know, I never had that thing where I was like, I love English. I love writing. I love reading. I love. I love science. I never had anything that I, like, really gravitated towards in high school. All I wanted to do is, like, go to, like, punk shows and, like, hang out with my friends and, you know, do kid shit. And so when I went to culinary school, it was like, this amazing thing happened where I loved cooking and I was reasonably good at it, and I found a natural ability where before I didn't have I never felt that. I never was great at sports. I was never good at school. So then all of a sudden I'm in school, but I'm doing something I genuinely love and I'm getting good grades. So then all of a sudden you're like, oh, if I show up every day and I'm in my clean chef whites and I do what the chef says and I, you know, make the food that we're making that day in a timely, clean fashion and be efficient and, you know, maintain my station, all of a sudden, I get good grades. And I was just like, this is amazing. And it was like a thing that like built self esteem and confidence and all these things that I never really felt for years going to school. And so then I was just, this is an amazing place. I loved it.
- [13:07]
Kara Swisher
So one of the things when you think about becoming a chef. We're gonna talk about the bear in just a minute. But it's the idea of having trauma and insecurity. For example, a lot of chefs, that's the idea, and it's usually a big complaint to people in the culinary world of trauma, insecurity, being verbally abused, et cetera. How do you look at the environment right now of the restaurant business?
- [13:32]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I don't know. I think people are learning a lot. I think, you know, the brigade style of this, you know, singular chef person that has the almighty say is one thing. And, you know, I worked in great French restaurants and some were ran like that and some were a little more collaborative and amazing. And I don't know, I think the landscape right now is a lot of people are aware of the history and aware of the unsustainable work that came along with a lot of those types of restaurants. And I think now it's this amazing thing where we understand what people want and what people deserve and how to give them that and create kitchens that are, you know, a unified problem solving team and are giving people infrastructure and training on how to do what we want. A lot of restaurants, it was based on learning how to do something you're shown once or twice and then you have to execute. And then if you mess up, you would get in trouble. And I think that that type of learning and that type of teaching isn't really that sustainable. I think you need to be able to talk to your team members constantly, give them understanding. If they're not catching something, help them. You know, you get more bees with honey. You know, like, it's one of those things, and you're able to do that without yelling, and you're able to do that without being mean.
- [15:16]
Kara Swisher
You know, when you see that, what do you think when you see the yelling show? You know, I'm thinking Gordon Ramsay, of course, he's made it almost a brand and famous.
- [15:23]
Matty Matheson
Yeah. Like, it is like, one of those things where I think if a chef's yelling, it means that they're not communicating properly. And a lot of chefs, I think, believe that people can read their minds. And if you just leave somebody out on the lurch, like, trying to figure something out, and they don't do exactly what you think, and then you get frustrated by that dish not being up to your standards, then there could have been more communication, there could have been more teaching, more handholding, more thought on your side. But a yelling chef is somebody who's lost control.
- [15:58]
Kara Swisher
Now, speaking of control, you have a bunch of restaurants. Is it, I don't know, 15, 10, 11?
- [16:04]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, it's like 13, I think, right now. 13.
- [16:07]
Kara Swisher
So you have Prime Seafood Palace. Do you have Rizzo's House of Parm, Patty's Burger Club, the Banh Mi restaurant? You've pushed back against the idea that you have an empire, but a lot of chefs do have an empire, and this feels like one. Talk about what. What. Why you have so many restaurants, and what's your goal in having all these different places?
- [16:26]
Matty Matheson
I think an empire is just a stupid word to use in a small business. We're still ran. We run it like a small business. We're an independent restaurant, and I'm not backed by some giant VC company or some development company. So we are able to run our restaurants a little bit differently than these larger groups. And. And, yeah, my goal is to make beautiful restaurants that inspire me and things that come from my background and come from the history of my life and things that I really connect with. And Cafe Rang is our love letter to Vietnam. And my friendship and partnership with Rang is an incredible thing. And I think Maddie's Patties started from me and Pat Tenore cooking cheeseburgers in Hawaii for kids. You know, they all come from something. So it's just, like, I think building these restaurants and creating these spaces is just me showing the world and Toronto specifically, like, where I come from and what makes me. And, like, that's the way that I want to, like, present myself and give people food and give people a place to go and eat.
- [17:47]
Kara Swisher
What's your. Do you cook at all these places? No. Do you set the menus? What's your role now when you have this many restaurants?
- [17:55]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I work with all of our chefs in front of house. I create all of the restaurants and the design and the menus and work with all of our team members on creating these spaces. I'm working with all of the chefs on ideation and writing the menus and then executing recipes and getting the recipes. Recipes up to our standards and getting them to a level. And then I'm just constantly working with everybody, you know, just dialing in these businesses and dialing in our food and our beverage systems and working with them daily.
- [18:32]
Kara Swisher
You know, when you're figuring out what has to go between all the restaurants, is there a through line for any of them at all? There's a. In season three of the Bear, they talk about non negotiables. Right. Carmi makes a list of things that are non negotiables, like personal hygiene, confidence and confidence. No repeat ingredients. Richie has his own list, including an environment that embraces razzle dazzle and dreamweave, which are interesting. It sounds like something you might say, but do you have a non negotiable list for your restaurants or your teams and what's on it or what should be?
- [19:04]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, we have different. Each space has, you know, I think it's just more of core values and things like that and our standards of what we. How we show up for work and how we execute the job every day and how we uplift each other and. Yeah, there's a bunch of that kind of stuff. Like, there's a baseline of cleanliness and professionalism and all those types of things on all of our restaurants. And then each space and restaurant has definitely a very specific. There's different talent pools. You know, the talent pool at Maddie's Patties is very different than Cafe Rang. Cafe Rang is very different than Prime Seafood Palace. They're all very different. And each one needs to be kind of nurtured and given that kind of space to grow and become its own thing. And we need to be very aware of that. And each one is very kind of. You know, we work on each unit in a very specific way.
- [20:07]
Kara Swisher
Is there one that's all you in the idea? If you had a pick of the restaurants.
- [20:13]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I don't know. They're all very sentimental to me. They're all very much a part of what I've done and how I've done them, and they all. The through line is things that I love. You know, Rizzo's House of Parham is my love of my wife's family's cooking. Everything we do comes from an idea or a feeling and an experience that comes from my life and the through line is that the things that make me happy and proud and those are the things that like. It's a very good starting point to have something that's real, that's meaningful, and that's something that comes from a very pure, beautiful place.
- [20:58]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute. Support for on with Kara Swisher comes from Intuit. If you're marketing to small businesses, then you know that reaching the right companies online starts with accurate data. Intuit SMB Media Labs is the first of its kind B2SMB ad network, facilitating over 139 million invoices and categorizing 584 million transactions in the US each year. QuickBooks knows small businesses and with Intuit SMB Media Labs, you can reach millions of SMBs effectively and at scale, target by industry size, maturity, location and more across new and existing channels like Social Programmatic and ctv. Unlock growth opportunities with tailored insights and expand your reach with recent accurate audiences from Intuit SMB Media Labs. Learn more@medialabs.intuit.com support for on with Kara Swisher comes from Give Directly There are so many ways to support causes you care about this time of year, but if you're looking for a way to directly support people who need it, consider making a donation to GiveDirectly. GiveDirectly believes that every person, regardless of their financial status, has their own specific needs, preferences and aspirations, and that the best way to uplift people in poverty is to give them cash and freedom to choose how to improve their own lives. With that in mind, GiveDirectly sends cash transfers via mobile money or simple SMS based digital transfers to some of the poorest communities in the world. And according to GiveDirectly, they've even used AI to deliver cash to at risk communities before floods and other natural disasters hit. Your donation this holiday season can help lift families and entire communities out of extreme poverty. You can learn more and send money directly to people living in extreme poverty by visiting GiveDirectly.org Cara support for the show comes from Greenlight. You know the saying, give a man a fish, he eats for the night. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Well, however you feel about seafood, it's great advice and Greenlight thinks it's a perfect principle for parents teaching their kids about personal finance. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids spending and saving. While kids and teens can build money confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills, the Greenlight app is designed to help kids learn how to save, spend, and even invest wisely. I've tried Greenlight with my family and I think it's a good experience. There's a lot of games and interesting information that kids can read. I think it's really important to spend time informing your kids about money. It's the thing we spend the least time doing. My son recently did not know how to pay rent. He had never done it in his life and obviously had lived in dorms or been living with me. So it's really important to have financial literacy. You can sign up for greenlight today@greenlight.com Cara that's greenlight.com Cara to try greenlight today greenlight.com Cara so let me ask you, one of your biggest projects is your YouTube show cooking something with Matty Matheson. Your channel has more than 1.5 million subscribers and of course, you have many more across social media. As I said, my son Louis loves you and watches you all the time. Cooking shows aren't new. They just used to be on television. Let me play a clip from a recent episode and I'd like you to talk a little bit about it.
- [24:33]
Matty Matheson
What's up, everybody? I'm Matty Matheson, and welcome today to Cooking Something. Cooking Something is a show where I'm taking food and I'm cooking something with it. Okay? You guys are at home being like, what the fuck do I cook? I don't know. I'm just trying to make something out of nothing. But we got something. And now I'm cooking something. And we're all here working together, trying to make each other feel good, eat good. You're cooking at home. Self esteem. I've gone over this how many times. You're cooking, you're making yourself feel good. Somebody eats it. They're like, holy fuck, that tastes really amazing. They're like, yeah, I learned how to make that from Matty. And then they're like, oh, my God, I love that guy. He's such a fucking idiot. And I'm like, yeah. And now we're here. Now we're here.
- [25:13]
Kara Swisher
You're a quiet, retiring type. So can you talk to me about what you're trying to do here? You suddenly throw in self esteem too, which I thought was interesting. But talk a little bit about what you're trying to do with this. In some ways, you're like a typical OG cooking show queen, like Julia Child. She Had a. She had a very boolean attitude in the French Chef and talked about empowering people, mostly women at the time. Talk about what you're doing here in the YouTube show you're doing.
- [25:42]
Matty Matheson
I just want people to get excited about cooking. And maybe they cook what I cook. Maybe they watch me just to laugh. Whatever they get out of it, I can't really control that. But I think it is like. Like, I think it's just an amazing thing that I'm able to reach a lot of people and get people excited about cooking. That's kind of it, you know, like, it's a very basic thing where I'm like, I've had a weekly cooking show for a long time that's, you know, free and just on the Internet. So if anybody ever wants to go look at stuff, they can go. And I think it's just like a really cool thing that I love to have. And yeah, like, that's all it is.
- [26:21]
Kara Swisher
Does that make money for you? Restaurants are often not money making ventures. Obviously the economics can be different. But how do you. Is that something that's important economically?
- [26:32]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, for sure. Like, YouTube is a place that, like, I'm able to give people free cooking videos and I'm able to do, you know, 30 second, one minute integrations within those that pay for making that, you know, so it is. It's something that provides a lot of joy to a lot of people, and I'm able to make a couple bucks and keep it moving.
- [26:55]
Kara Swisher
You know, obviously you've been a name in the Q linear world for more than a decade, but now people know you from playing this goofy family friend slash handyman, Neil Thack on the Bear. Season three just picked up five Golden Globe nominations. Congratulations. Thank you. Your book is now on soups and sandwiches with the Bear. Is the name of the restaurant that started out as a sandwich shop called the Beef. And one of your characters major moments in season three is about soup is specifically mirepoix.
- [27:25]
Matty Matheson
Hands, please. I can take it. You sure, chef? You know what to do? I believe so. Okay, you're gonna take it to the table. Okay. You're gonna pour the broth into the bowls, give them each a bowl. Say, this is our mirepoix broth.
- [27:35]
Kara Swisher
Okay, you got it?
- [27:36]
Matty Matheson
Yes, chef. Good, Go. Okay. Careful. Thank you, chef. Thank you.
- [27:42]
Kara Swisher
What's happening in that scene? Because you don't play a chef. You're the only. You're the only chef in the this series who's not playing a chef.
- [27:49]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I'm just fac. I'm playing, you know, a handyman, and, you know, I'm Carmy's, like, best friend and trying to make people feel a little love in the middle of all the chaos that's going on. Yeah. In this scene, it's just, like, I bring out this dish. Mirepoix soup. Mirepoix, broth. It's everything that makes the Italian be without the beef kind of thing, was the thinking behind it. Hi. Welcome. This is a broth from chef Carmen's mind. Mirepoix and broth. I pour it in front of you. Enjoy. I took things a little too literally when chef told me to go and pour it in front of them. So I went and poured it in front of them and then brought it back to the kitchen, and obviously, they were supposed to have it. What are you doing? I poured it in front of him. Why the. Is it back in here? Well, we're restaurants back. Serve the. Is this. Come on. What are you thinking? We have to be organized. The guy who changes everything, it's sincere. It's. It's a cute little mishap that obviously would make someone's head explode, you know, and it's just. I'm just like this, like, little velvet hammer of. Of love and misunderstanding.
- [29:07]
Kara Swisher
Right. Which is what your character is. So you're not just part of the cast. You're also a consultant and executive producer. Explain how this happened.
- [29:15]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I've known Chris for a long time. Chris Storer, the creator and director and writer and all that stuff. And his sister, Courtney Storer, is a close friend of mine, and she's a chef as well, and she's the culinary producer on the show. And, yeah, we've known each other for a long time. And then Chris called me one day and wanted to know if I wanted to, like, consult on this pilot of this show that he had. And. Yeah, and I was just like, okay. And, like, we kind of figured it out, and then I came and we. We shot the pilot, and we worked. You know, I. I got to work with the writers. I got to work with costume and set deck and prop and work with the actors on a lot of stuff. And. And then we got to go make a show, and then it just kind of grew. You know, Fact's character grew a little bit more. I feel nobody knew if I was going to be able to act a little bit or do that or.
- [30:12]
Kara Swisher
Did you. Were you worried about your acting skills?
- [30:15]
Matty Matheson
Scary. It's doing something you've never done before. It's very scary. A lot of these people are amazing actors that have, like, spent their whole lives trying to be these actors. And then I'm like, I have no idea. I've never taken an acting class. I don't know. And then I show up and I'm just trying to do what I'm doing, and it's like. But it was an amazing experience because it's just like, I'm trying to help them be better actors by giving them a lot of information and stories and showing them how to move in the kitchens a little bit and all that kind of stuff. And then they were giving me the reciprocal of helping me read my lines and working scenes with me, and it was a really amazing thing. Everyone on that show is so amazing.
- [30:53]
Kara Swisher
And FAQ is a real fan favorite. Some people on Reddit. So you make the Bear a comedy. I want to play you a short segment from season one where you're trying to convince Richie to give you a job at the restaurant.
- [31:04]
Matty Matheson
I graduated high school. Good start. Be serious, man. I'm being serious. What might you bring to the beef as a new employee? I got hearth. What's hearth? I'm nervous, man. I got heart. You're going to need brain now. Do you have any special skills or abilities asides from being a fucking strong? Well, A, I'm not a fucking stroke. And B, I'm really good on the keyboard. No. A, you are. And B, no, you're not. Well, A, yes, I am. And B, I joined a jazz fusion class. So in your face. A, I've heard you fucking play, and you're fucking terrible. And C, it's a fucking restaurant. Why do I give a fuck that you play the keyboard?
- [31:39]
Kara Swisher
I'm a hard worker.
- [31:40]
Matty Matheson
I'm a nice guy. I got a great vibe. Fuck your vibe. Don't ever fuck my vibe. I swear to God, I will fuck anything I want to fucking. You are not being nice and you will not fuck me.
- [31:52]
Kara Swisher
Talk about this scene. You're a very good actor, actually, as it turns out.
- [31:58]
Matty Matheson
Yeah. I don't know, it's just like a really kind of oddly intense, crazy conversation between, you know, it's a thing where it's just like, we've all known each other since we were, like, kids almost, you know? And so it's just like everyone's able to speak a little bit. Bit. Everyone's a little nastier, it seems. But yeah, I don't know. I was just like. I wanted to be a part of the team. I really wanted to be a part of it. I thought I would add Value, you know, obviously, I probably feel, like, left out and then just trying to be a part of the team. It's my family. I love these guys. I love the beef. I love, you know, everything about it. And I love Carmi so much. And now that Carmy's back, and I just really wanted to be a part of it and try to help and be there, you know, so.
- [32:45]
Kara Swisher
Well, speaking of family, the Bear is about a guy trying to take over and launch a restaurant. It's really about families, the family dynamics behind the scenes and how people working in restaurants become families. Speaking of family, every week we get a question from an outside expert. This week, he's more of an inside expert. Let's play it.
- [33:00]
Matty Matheson
Hey, Matty. This is Jeff Swisher, Cara's older brother and the designated chef of our fairly large Italian American family. I do the Feast of the Seven Fishes every year, and I have to say that your season two episode six, Feast of the Seven Fishes gave me ptsd. Our mother, Lucky, has never exactly driven a car into the house, but metaphorically, I'm not so sure. I had a wonderful friend named Peter Dandria who sadly passed away too young. He was the head chef at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. Occasionally, we would go out together to pretty well known restaurants in San Francisco, and the chefs would seem to try to outdo each other and make something special for the visiting chef. My question is this. If you knew that Thomas Keller and Dominique Crenn were coming to your restaurant, what would you make for each of them and why?
- [33:48]
Kara Swisher
Interesting. Those are two San Francisco chefs just for people who don't know.
- [33:52]
Matty Matheson
Yeah. When I was younger, whenever we had chefs come to the restaurant, Oddfellows, parts and labor, I would always cook everything like myself. And I would do these, like, elaborate things and off the menu and really just try to, like, show them the love and, like, cook all these whatever, these stupid ass things. And now I have this, like, thing where when chefs come in, I want to very much stand on the food that we cook in the restaurant. I think that the food that we've chosen to cook at the restaurant is the best that we can create and the team behind all of our menus and all of our food. That's what Shawn. And now when chefs come in, we do what we do every day. We give them the same food that we give everybody. If Thomas Keller and Dominique Cren came into any one of our restaurants, we would do absolutely nothing different. We would give them the same service, and we would give them the same Food that we give everybody to the highest of our ability. And I think that is, you know, later on with life and maturity and everything about that, I think that's the beauty is giving people something that we cook every day, something that we're proud of, something that we build and work on as a team. And I think that is good enough to serve any chef or any patron of any of our establishments.
- [35:26]
Kara Swisher
That's a really interesting answer. Which of the restaurants would you think would you pick? Or you don't wanna pick any of your children, I guess. Right.
- [35:33]
Matty Matheson
If any chef came to any of my restaurants, I'd be excited and, and I would be proud to have three Michelin star chefs or the greatest chefs in the world. Go eat a cheeseburger or a bowl of pho or a chicken parm or have an extravagant meal at Prime Seafood Palace. You know, like I don't see it as anything better or worse. I'm proud of all of our restaurants and I think that good food is good food and I think you can have a beautiful cheeseburger that's just as good as some, you know, expensive fine dining experience. And I think that's what I'm trying to do.
- [36:14]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute. Support for on with Kara Swisher comes from Quince. Giving gifts would be really easy if you had a blank check to spend on every person you love. You'll find all kinds of luxury items that focus folks would never buy for themselves. Price wouldn't be an issue and you'd win the holidays every single year. But like most of us, that's just not going to happen. We have to work around budgets and frankly some of our limited imaginations to pick out memorable gifts. Luckily, Quince can help. With Quince, you can treat everyone in your life to luxury quality clothing at super affordable prices. Pieces like their iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters which start at just $50 are guaranteed crowd pleasers. Quince also offers plenty of great year round gifts like 14 karat gold jewelry, Italian leather handbags, tags and European linen cheat sets. And all of their Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. You can gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. You can go to quince.com cara for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. I have a lovely piece of luggage from Quince that I use every trip I do now that's Q U I n c e.comcara to get free shipping and 365 day return turns quince.comcara.
- [37:34]
Matty Matheson
Support.
- [37:35]
Kara Swisher
For On with Kara Swisher comes from Elf Beauty. In the corporate world, Elf Beauty is a bit of a unicorn. I've mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. They're the only US publicly traded company with 78 women and 44 diversity on their board. Trust me, they're a unicorn. They're a company with a strong ethos working to make positive impact on people, products and the plan planet. And just like you find your favorite dupe for a beauty product, E L F wants the corporate world to dupe that. ELF's 2024 impact report outlines it all. Like how they're making beauty accessible to everyone. For example, you can get five of Elf's lip oils for the price of one prestige competitor. Or how they empower their own people by granting $180 million in equity to their 500 plus employees. You can also read about how ELF is double certified by Leaping Bunny and PETA as cruelty free. ELF believes that doing good is good for business and that can be pretty rare. Again, it is absolutely rare. Visit elfbeauty.com impact to view their 2024 impact report.
- [38:41]
Matty Matheson
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- [39:22]
Kara Swisher
One of the projects you support is called the Matty Matheson Culinary and Hospital Bursary. It's a scholarship program for indigenous students attending post secondary institutions, especially culinary to hospitality. Can you talk about this program?
- [39:36]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I just wanted to do something that I don't really talk about. You know, I think there's a lot of things that were like I'm in a place of privilege, in a place of I can, I can help, I can donate money to a bursary and I love it. And I think having, you know, a place to put money into that supports the culinary arts and gets people into school and helps people. You know, I just had such an amazing experience and I think a lot of people deserve a chance that don't have a chance. And I think just putting a little, you know, having that available is something that I'm really proud of and something that I don't really ever speak about either because I think it's kind of Whack. I think you should just be able to do things and not make it a thing. And I think it is, you know, the. The kids that have gone into culinary school because of that is amazing. And like, that's it.
- [40:43]
Kara Swisher
Have you seen. And more Gen Z. People are looking for alternatives, say, to college education, jobs, and kitchens. What are you seeing in kitchens right now? You have all these kitchens. Where do you think things are happening? How is it changing? Or not at all?
- [41:00]
Matty Matheson
You know, if you want to go to culinary school, go to culinary school. If you don't want to go to culinary school, don't go to culinary school. If you want to work in kitchens and you have a natural ability and you want to be able to learn and can show up and be a part of a team, then, you know, everyone's welcome. It's a matter of being able to learn and to be a part of a team. I don't really. It's amazing to go to culinary school and get some basics and get a foundation, but, yeah, I don't know, it's.
- [41:32]
Kara Swisher
A lot of younger kids also are trying to be content creators first. Obviously. You've been on YouTube, as I said, since the early days. Should people get in the kitchens or go to the creator studio? They're doing it in journalism. They're doing it in a lot of places. I'm going to just do journalism.
- [41:49]
Matty Matheson
Because.
- [41:49]
Kara Swisher
You can't taste anything on YouTube, but go ahead.
- [41:52]
Matty Matheson
No, you certainly can't. Yeah. I think it's very separate. I think there's professional chefs and people that want to be cooks and chefs, and then there's people that want to be whatever they want to be on the Internet side and on social media. And I think it's very different worlds. And I think more and more people are looking towards creating content and going that route, and. Good for you. And I think it's, you know, I don't want to crap on anything if people are able to.
- [42:22]
Kara Swisher
You're not a crapper.
- [42:23]
Matty Matheson
No, I just want people to be happy doing what they're doing. There's people that want to be chefs. There's people that want to be like, I got a lot of cooks and chefs in our company that don't give a shit about social media and don't give a. They want to be chefs. And that's an incredible thing. And, yeah, I don't know. I. I can't imagine just all of a sudden one day creating content. I don't know. It's a different world where I'm like, Yeah, I, I had a long career way before doing any type of video, way before content was content. So it's just like, I'm like this like, kind of dinosaur, to be honest, where I'm like, I don't know, I don't think of what I do as content. I don't think of what we do as anything. I'm like, I make cooking shows and, and do whatever the hell I'm doing, but it's like young kids, it's just like, yeah, the world's yours, go get it. You know, like, honestly, like, if people want to be chefs, go be chefs. If people want to create content, good luck. And like, I think, I think social media is pretty fickle. I think it moves pretty fast. I think, you know, trends come and go very quickly. I think just making a 60 second jump cut. TikTok, if you do that, you know, good, good, amazing. If that makes you happy and you can provide for yourself, then go get it. But it's like, it's really fickle. It's really crazy. And good luck to everybody. Honestly, I don't know.
- [43:46]
Kara Swisher
It's interesting because in journalism, I'm like, Because a lot of people are using content just without doing the training. And I'm always like, you should really just write stories to start with. I just feel like you should know how to cook an egg in your case, right? Cook a good egg.
- [43:57]
Matty Matheson
Yeah. I just see it very differently. Like, you know, where I'm like, I agree with you for sure. Like, why would, why are these people able to do what they do? What, what's their pedigree? What is their, what is their knowledge? What is their thing? And the proof's in the pudding where it's just like, maybe they don't have anything. Maybe, maybe they don't know anything, but they have a giant following. I don't know. And then, and then it's just like, there's a lot of that going on too. And it's just like, you know, it's one of those things. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter because if you want to be that, then be that. If you want to be a chef, go be a chef. And it's just like, I just see everything as a very different lane where it's just like, who cares? Also, like, it is one of those things where I'm like, it. Nothing actually affects it. Like, I'm like, if there's all these, like, tick tockers and all this crap out there, I make fun of it all the time. Where I'm like, I don't understand it. I'm old. I'm like, I don't understand it. I don't. I also don't care. I have my fan base. I give them what I believe is good quality stuff and then is there something you see?
- [45:01]
Kara Swisher
And you go, no, no, no, no, no. Is there something that you go, no, please stop doing this. Is there anything.
- [45:06]
Matty Matheson
No, no. I don't waste my time thinking about stuff like that. I really don't think.
- [45:12]
Kara Swisher
Or do you see something you love? I like, for example, love watching people make candies that make candy.
- [45:17]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, that's nice. I love watching Ina, you know, like it's this like I love watching Ina. Yeah. Like I love watching Martha. I love watching. I love watching like beautiful.
- [45:27]
Kara Swisher
You just mentioned the two OG people.
- [45:29]
Matty Matheson
Well, yeah, but that's what I like watching. That's, that's like it. I love the way that they cook. I love the way they talk about food. I love what they do and it is like there's a lot of people out there that make beautiful content that I do love watching. I love the softer stuff. I love the like, you know, like I'm not watching also. I don't go on YouTube ever. I don't watch anything I make and I don't really.
- [45:54]
Kara Swisher
You just move along to the next thing?
- [45:56]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, I make. Yeah. I don't have TikTok on my phone. I don't really look at Instagram for any.
- [46:02]
Kara Swisher
Please don't look at Gordon Ramsey's duets on TikTok. I'll just advise you that early in advance. What do you want to put in your focus next? Or do you like doing all these things?
- [46:13]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, well, I'm doing everything I want to do. We've created a lot of these things in the last couple of years and now it's like, how do we make them long lasting? How do we make them real? How do we make them so have.
- [46:22]
Kara Swisher
Like an Ina Garten Martha Stewart career, that kind of thing which has been going on.
- [46:26]
Matty Matheson
I've never had, I've never had this like big it moment. It's always been this like slow burn and I'm like, I think just continuously doing what I'm doing and working hard on everything that we are doing is all I can do. And I think, you know, I don't think I'm going to start a new business. I think I have enough things going on and now I want to have all the things that I do have and make them long lasting and make them real.
- [46:50]
Kara Swisher
Will Neil finally get his wish and become a waiter?
- [46:53]
Matty Matheson
I hope so. You know, I think taking the soup out was like, you know, two steps forward, one step back. I don't know. I think I'm not giving up. I think no one's gonna give up on Neil. So I think there's.
- [47:06]
Kara Swisher
I don't think so.
- [47:06]
Matty Matheson
There's good hope on that.
- [47:07]
Kara Swisher
All right, my last question. Getting back to your book, your new book. If you had to pick one soup, salad, and sandwich as your favorite, which would you choose? I know you write in the book that bologna is your childhood favorite. I love bologna and haven't thought of it in a long time. But what would. What would you pick in the. In the book right now, do you would advise people to start?
- [47:27]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, the soup, I would probably genuinely pick.
- [47:36]
Kara Swisher
You.
- [47:36]
Matty Matheson
Like, I don't even think it's in the book. I would just pick like a chicken noodle soup. I pick definitely a tuna melt. I love tuna melts. And a salad. I would make probably just like my Maddie salad. That's. That's in another book. It's not even in this book. But I'd make the Maddie salad, which is green lettuce, green olives, onion, green beans, celery, oil, vinegar, salt and pepper.
- [48:04]
Kara Swisher
And that would be your favorite?
- [48:05]
Matty Matheson
Yeah, that's the salad I always make and I love, and it always makes me happy, you know?
- [48:10]
Kara Swisher
Well, we'll end on that. I really appreciate it, Maddie. Thank you so much. You really are an inspiration to a lot more people than you think.
- [48:17]
Matty Matheson
Thank you. It's very kind.
- [48:23]
Kara Swisher
On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro, Roselle, Kateri Yokum, Jolie Myers, Megan Burney and Kalen Lynch. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Furby. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Aruda and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you get Maddie's special salad, tuna melt and chicken noodle soup soup. If not, get whatever's on the menu, which is probably great. Anyway, go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.
- [49:07]
Matty Matheson
Support for this show comes from Amazon Prime. However you plan to make the most.
- [49:11]
Kara Swisher
Of the holiday season, you can do.
- [49:13]
Matty Matheson
It with Amazon prime. Whether it's last minute ingredients and stocking stuffers or a themed puzzle to solve with the family.
- [49:21]
Kara Swisher
Get fast free delivery on Holiday Essentials with Prime.
- [49:24]
Matty Matheson
And with Prime Video, you can curl up on the couch, warm drinks in hand, and have a holiday movie marathon throughout it all. You can tune into classic holiday playlists on Amazon Music whatever you're into this holiday season from streaming to shop, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
- [49:46]
Kara Swisher
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