Comedian Ronny Chieng on Political Satire, Trolling Algorithms and Cerebral Dick Jokes

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Comedian Ronny Chieng on Political Satire, Trolling Algorithms and Cerebral Dick Jokes" – On with Kara Swisher

Release Date: February 24, 2025

In this engaging episode of On with Kara Swisher, hosted by award-winning journalist Kara Swisher from Vox Media, Emmy-winning comedian and actor Ronny Chieng delves into his multifaceted career, the nuances of political satire in the modern era, the impact of social media algorithms on masculinity, and his creative process in crafting cerebral comedy. Throughout the conversation, Ronny provides insightful perspectives shaped by his diverse international background and legal education, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the mind of one of today's most thoughtful comedians.

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1. Introduction to Ronny Chieng's Career

Kara begins by highlighting Ronny's diverse career trajectory, noting his origins in Malaysia, education in Singapore and Australia, and his subsequent rise in the American comedy scene.

Kara Swisher [00:11]: "Ronny's originally from Malaysia, went to school in Singapore and launched his standup career after finishing in Melbourne, Australia."

Ronny discusses his appreciation for stand-up comedy as his primary creative outlet, emphasizing its directness and the immediate feedback from audiences.

Ronny Chieng [05:08]: "Every job I do, I love doing it. So if you put a gun to my head and make me pick, I have to go with stand up comedy just because that's how I started."

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2. Stand-Up Comedy: The Heart of Creativity

The conversation delves into why Ronny prefers stand-up comedy over other forms of entertainment. He appreciates the unfiltered interaction with the audience and the freedom to test ideas in real-time.

Ronny Chieng [05:14]: "The live aspect, there's really no filter, there's very few rules. And it's so immediate, you and the audience and you've got to figure it out in real time."

Ronny also touches on the challenge of maintaining concise material, advocating for shorter, more impactful performances rather than extended sets.

Ronny Chieng [06:31]: "I believe that the standup comedy, comedy special or album should not be more than one hour. So like I said, when you're touring the hour, it just naturally grows because you keep adding jokes to it."

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3. Hosting The Daily Show and Political Satire

Ronny shares his experiences as a correspondent and rotating host on The Daily Show, especially during the tumultuous period of the Trump administration's second term.

Ronny Chieng [07:19]: "It's all I've known. It's all I've known."

He reflects on how political satire has evolved, noting that the absurdity of the current political climate has become somewhat normalized, changing the way humor is crafted and perceived.

Ronny Chieng [07:58]: "People are quite normalized to ridiculousness now. So a lot of the first time around, a lot of the jokes were like, guys, this is kind of crazy. The jokes now seem to be coming from a place of like, this is crazy. And we've kind of like, it's powerful to course."

---

4. Elon Musk as a Comedic Character

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Elon Musk's role as a modern-day antagonist in comedy, alongside Donald Trump. Ronny explores how Musk's actions and persona provide fertile ground for satire, yet also pose challenges due to Musk's own internet trolling behavior.

Ronny Chieng [13:28]: "He's using the same kind of trolling playbook. Often you can't joke his trolling because that's kind of what he wants."

He elaborates on the difficulty of mocking someone who anticipates and orchestrates their own ridicule, effectively blurring the lines between joke and action.

Ronny Chieng [14:16]: "He’s always just like Trump. You know, he's kind of using the same kind of trolling playbook."

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5. Social Media Algorithms and Masculinity

Addressing concerns about the influence of social media algorithms on young men, Ronny critiques how platforms can funnel vulnerable individuals toward misogynistic or extreme ideologies, contributing to societal unrest.

Ronny Chieng [25:17]: "YouTube algorithm is very alluring to straight guys. It sucks men in in a way that I don't think women understand."

He connects this phenomenon to broader issues of identity and mental health, emphasizing the importance of accessible outlets for men to discuss their feelings without resorting to harmful online communities.

Ronny Chieng [27:01]: "There's not been a good way for men to talk about things that they're feeling, you know, truthfully, feeling deep inside... That leads them down this dark path."

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6. Netflix Special: "Love to Hate It"

Ronny discusses his third Netflix stand-up special, "Love to Hate It," highlighting its blend of intellectual humor and relatable, crude jokes. He reflects on the creative process, including how unexpected elements like his affinity for Hawaii organically influenced the special's narrative.

Ronny Chieng [21:59]: "I didn't even realize until two months before I filmed it in Hawaii that, oh, Hawaii comes up a lot in the special."

A standout moment from the special, which went viral, is examined. Ronny breaks down a complex joke that merges political commentary with comedic timing, showcasing his ability to intertwine logic with humor.

Kara Swisher [32:16]: "This is a terrific joke. You're obviously doing a sort of a college lecture thing and then making it into a very funny and true thing."

Ronny Chieng [32:33]: "It's a centrist argument... People want five second explanations for everything."

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7. Writing Style and Legal Background

Ronny attributes his structured approach to comedy to his legal education, which honed his ability to craft coherent arguments and eliminate unnecessary elements from his material.

Ronny Chieng [35:34]: "My wife always kind of points it out to me. Like, the longer I've been doing comedy, the more it's like, I'm making arguments... Legal background helps in forming a coherent argument."

He emphasizes the importance of logic in comedy, not just for making jokes but for constructing narratives that resonate with audiences.

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8. Influences and Inspirations

Reflecting on his influences, Ronny names prominent comedians such as Bill Burr and Dave Chappelle, as well as the vibrant New York City comedy scene that shaped his early career.

Ronny Chieng [37:31]: "I love Bill Burr... I've loved everybody in New York City who was gigging."

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9. Evolution of Comedy Specials and Platforms

The discussion shifts to the changing landscape of comedy specials, with Ronny analyzing the shift from traditional platforms like HBO to streaming giants like Netflix and Hulu, and even to independent platforms like YouTube.

Ronny Chieng [38:18]: "I can't tell who's number one. I think Hulu has just entered the chat with comedy specials."

He acknowledges the benefits and challenges of each platform, particularly the financial support from Netflix that allows him to maintain creative freedom.

Ronny Chieng [40:40]: "Netflix is taking care of me. I'll rather do that. Meaning if you want to hire me, you have to be on my terms."

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10. Acting Career and Asian Representation in Hollywood

Ronny discusses his notable roles in "Crazy Rich Asians," "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings," and the Hulu series "Interior Chinatown." He addresses the broader issue of Asian representation in Hollywood, advocating for authenticity and meaningful storytelling over mere diversity quotas.

Ronny Chieng [46:55]: "The main problem is in that decision-making layer in Hollywood... It's about authenticity and storytelling."

He critiques the superficial approach to diversity, arguing that true representation requires Asian voices in executive and creative decision-making roles to ensure genuine narratives.

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11. Future Projects and Aspirations

Looking ahead, Ronny expresses a desire to pursue scripted narrative projects that blend social messaging with compelling storytelling, moving beyond the format of late-night satire.

Ronny Chieng [48:38]: "I would love to do scripted narrative or scripted movie... Cracking scripted narrative and having social messaging through scripted narrative."

He values the collaborative environment of The Daily Show, appreciating how shared hosting responsibilities prevent burnout and bring diverse perspectives to the forefront.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Ronny emphasizing his commitment to authentic and impactful comedy, whether through stand-up, acting, or potential future projects. His thoughtful insights into the intersection of media, politics, and social dynamics offer listeners a deep understanding of the challenges and responsibilities inherent in modern comedy.

Kara Swisher [51:19]: "You're a wonderful and creative thinker and I really appreciate all you do."

Ronny’s blend of intellectual rigor and comedic flair makes this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of comedy and media.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ronny Chieng [05:08]: "Every job I do, I love doing it. So if you put a gun to my head and make me pick, I have to go with stand up comedy just because that's how I started."

• Ronny Chieng [07:58]: "People are quite normalized to ridiculousness now. So a lot of the first time around, a lot of the jokes were like, guys, this is kind of crazy. The jokes now seem to be coming from a place of like, this is crazy."

• Ronny Chieng [25:17]: "YouTube algorithm is very alluring to straight guys. It sucks men in in a way that I don't think women understand."

• Ronny Chieng [32:33]: "It's a centrist argument... People want five second explanations for everything."

• Ronny Chieng [37:31]: "I love Bill Burr... I've loved everybody in New York City who was gigging."

• Ronny Chieng [40:40]: "Netflix is taking care of me. I'll rather do that. Meaning if you want to hire me, you have to be on my terms."

• Ronny Chieng [46:55]: "The main problem is in that decision-making layer in Hollywood... It's about authenticity and storytelling."

• Ronny Chieng [48:38]: "I would love to do scripted narrative or scripted movie... Cracking scripted narrative and having social messaging through scripted narrative."

---

Final Thoughts:

Ronny Chieng's candid discussion with Kara Swisher offers a multifaceted look into the life of a comedian navigating the complexities of modern media, political satire, and cultural representation. His insights underscore the importance of authenticity, intellectual depth, and adaptability in an ever-changing entertainment landscape.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

I'm doing comics all the time. I have them every six weeks because this is a big. Because everything else is about the constitutional crisis. It's pretty serious and tech leaders taking over things.

[Ronny Chieng]

So yeah, gets very bleak.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, bleak. Hi everyone From New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network, this is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Emmy award winning comed and actor Ronny Cheng. If you've ever seen him, his shtick is kind of like being this grumpy, disdainful foreigner who tells it to Americans like it is. And he also wants you to do better, wants all of us to do better. I love having comics on the show. I want to have them on all the time in this really difficult time. I also think that people like Ronnie are doing very pointed political comedy too, even though they often just say they're making jokes. He's a very smart thinker and that's why I enjoy listening to him. Ronnie's originally from Malaysia, went to school in Singapore and launched his standup career after finish in Melbourne, Australia. He's a globalist. He's been a correspondent on the Daily show for a decade and part of the rotating lineup of hosts on the show since last year. I think it's a great way to do that show. In January, he had the Herculean task of hosting during the first week of the new Trump administration when a list of executive orders was so long they didn't have time to read them all. I wanted to talk to him about doing political satire in Trump 2.0 and about his recent Netflix special, Love to Hate it, which oscillates between cerebral, personal and potty mouth. Of course, always a dick joke, no matter how you slice it. And I want to talk to him about his acting career, which is going strong. He got a big break in Crazy Rich Asians, where he played a complete financial bro asshole. He did a great job, but since then he's been in a number of films including Marvel Movie, Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and the recent Hulu series Interior Chinatown. Our expert question this week comes from crazy rich Asians and Wicked director John Chu. I think we all need a smart laugh right about now, so this should be fun, so stick around. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet, whether it's just a quick jaunt or a long journey. Chevy's all electric Equinox EV has you covered with a massive 17.7-inch diagonal touchscreen. And starting at around $34,995, you can hit the road and still afford snacks. Equinox ev. A vehicle you know, a value to expect and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn [e-mail] Equinox EV the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.

[Ronny Chieng]

It is on.

[Kara Swisher]

Ronnie, welcome. Thanks for being on. On.

[Ronny Chieng]

Hey, thanks for having me. Nice to meet you.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm so glad. I'm a real fan. I was just talking to you earlier about some of the things I've seen you and you've been in tons of stuff and obviously the Daily Show. But before we get started, I'm heading to Australia in a few weeks for my book tour, for the paperback of my book. I know you live there for a decade and your wife is from Melbourne. Any suggestions? Places to go, things not to say or to say. Should I just stay there? Should I just.

[Ronny Chieng]

I don't know you that well, but I predict you're gonna go there and be like, I should probably stay here. Very safe and very socialist country in a great way. When you go there, if, when, when you do order coffee and they have the best coffee in the world, don't just say you want a coffee. You have to be specific. You can't just say, give me a coffee. You have to be. It's the place where you have to go. Espresso, flat white or cappuccino.

[Kara Swisher]

What else?

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, so that. And don't. Don't ask for hot sauce. Nobody knows what you're talking about. And don't be a black person and you'll be great.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah. Aborigines. I've been there. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for those pieces of advice. I've been to Australia once or twice before, but I love it. And the only person I have to deal with there is Rupert Murdoch, which I can handle, considering who we're up against now. So, anyway, thank you. Thank you. No more time for travel tips. We got a lot to talk about. Let's talk about you. You're a busy man. You've been part of a rotating group hosting the Daily show for the past year. Your third Netflix standup special came out last year. Love to Hate it, which I loved. You've done a lot of acting, including recently the Hulu series Interior Chinatown. That's your latest, which is awesome, let me just say also. So talk to me about your multifaceted career. What is your favorite hosting? Standup acting. If you had to choose to do just One forever.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh. I mean, I've been very lucky. Every job I do, I love doing it. So if you put a gun to my head and make me pick, I have to go with stand up comedy just because that's how I started. That's where all my creativity seems to come from. That's where everything that happened to me started from. Me doing stand up comedy. It's the most direct form of self expression that I know.

[Kara Swisher]

So do you like the interaction with the audience? Is that what it is about it or is it just you're more creative?

[Ronny Chieng]

The live aspect, there's really no filter, there's no very few rules. And it's so immediate, you and the audience and you got to figure it out in real time. Time. And there's no one giving you notes on what you think is funny slash good and what you're saying to the audience.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Ronny Chieng]

No one, no one's coming in between that. So it's the most direct way of testing out your ideas.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, what's a joke you cut that you wish you hadn't.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, I got a ton. I cut for Time, honestly, because I believe that the standup comedy, comedy special or album should not be more than one hour. So like I said, when you're touring the hour, it just naturally grows because you keep adding jokes to it. So you start off, you know, we all start our comedy routines with trying to figure out five minutes, 10 minutes, and then it becomes 20 minutes, then it becomes 30 and next thing you know, it's 45. And then you start touring 45 and then it becomes an hour and then hour 15. And so you eventually have to, like, in my opinion, you gotta bring it back to under an hour. Because I think comedy is one of those things where less is more.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

And there's a limit on how much comedy people actually want.

[Kara Swisher]

So you don't want to be like the Joe Rogan of comics.

[Ronny Chieng]

You don't want to do a podcast. Yeah. You don't do a three hour comedy. I don't have the ability to pull that off. And I'm saying this versus music or musical or a movie. Right. Where you can go to a concert for two hours, but comedy you can't. Comedy isn't the same thing, you know, And I think I'm laughing because I think sometimes people, they just try to use comedy and music interchangeably because you have a microphone, that musician has a microphone. Why don't I just put you in that situation and like. No, the context matters. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

So let's start with the Daily Show a little bit. You've been correspondent since 2015. I didn't realize it was so long.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

So you made it just in time for Trump 1.0. Congratulations. Thank you.

[Ronny Chieng]

It's all I've known. It's all I've known.

[Kara Swisher]

I know you were hosting. Well, you were host. There was a little Biden interregnum in there.

[Ronny Chieng]

There was Biden, but he was still around. Trump was still around. When Biden was there, it felt like Trump was still president.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. So you were hosting the first week of Trump 2.0. From a comedic perspective, how is the second coming, as you guys have dubbed it? He's calling himself a king, obviously. How is it different? Because you guys are doing pretty tough stuff. I love it. It's like you're tougher than a lot of reporters, honestly.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, I don't know about that.

[Kara Swisher]

I think so I talk a little bit about the difference.

[Ronny Chieng]

I mean, you know, you. You couched it as from a comedic point of view, which I think is important. From a comedic point of view. What's different is people are quite normalized to ridiculousness now. And so a lot of the. The first time around, a lot of the jokes were like, guys, this is kind of crazy. The jokes now seem to be coming from a place of like, this is crazy. And we've. We kind of like, it's powerful to course. Oh, yeah, it's crazy. But, yeah, we expect this.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it hard to find humor in some of the stuff? Obviously, the gulf. The gulf of America just kind of writes itself certain things.

[Ronny Chieng]

Sure, yes. Things get dark, you know, I know what you're saying. I think things do get dark. And our job, as far as I know, is that's why we get paid the big bucks, is to figure out how do you joke about this stuff, you know, and it's a typo and it's not easy, and it's an art form. It's not science. And people want to know how you do it, you know, and my. My thing is, like, our job isn't to teach anyone how to do this. So I don't care if anyone ever figures out where the line is.

[Kara Swisher]

Where your line for comedy.

[Ronny Chieng]

I'm. My job is to. Yeah, my job is to do the.

[Kara Swisher]

But is it harder given the stakes have arisen so high with this guy because he's doing a very different residency than he did before.

[Ronny Chieng]

So emotionally, yes, that's always in the background. But, like, we can't focus on that to do the job, you know, And Our job is satire and comedy. And I'm not saying that's a noble profession. I'm just saying that's what we do. So. And I don't advocate anyone else do that, follow our point of view. But like I said, we're comics. What kind of psychos. We're making fun as far as I'm concerned. Our job is to make fun of the asteroid as it's coming in to destroy us.

[Kara Swisher]

Ah, okay.

[Ronny Chieng]

We'll be making fun of it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Until the end, right?

[Ronny Chieng]

Till the end. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

So you've advocated for an Asian president as far back as 2019 because you said that Asians can arbitrate in the race war because they don't have skin in the game. Obviously. Kamala Harris is both Asian and black. Do you think your job at the Daily show would have been harder or easier if she had won? Maybe harder.

[Ronny Chieng]

I would imagine harder or easier. You know, I mean, we, we had Biden for four years and there was still tons of jokes. So, you know, I, I, people ask about this, is it easier with Trump? And do you like it? I mean, let me just say, first of all, I would, I would prefer to live in a country that is functioning and is good. So that's number one. I will gladly sacrifice any hypothetical jokes for that. And second of all, it's like you, you find jokes in any situation, in any government. You can find jokes in any government. Conservative, progressive, humans are funny and crazy and politics is weird, and the intersection of, you know, people in power and the real life culture that we live in is always funny. So is it harder or easier? I mean, I, I don't think it would have been harder or easier. I think it would have been the same.

[Kara Swisher]

But are you writing jokes with a particular audience or political sensibility in mind right now? Has that shifted? Or there are things too serious to make jokes about? I don't think so. Probably not, no.

[Ronny Chieng]

I think truthfully, if anything, we've become, we were always very joke focused, and we never want to pander to our crowd. I think we've become even less pandering lately, if that's even possible, because, like, we want. I don't feel like we're pandering before, but from what I can tell, we came in pretty hot with, you know, Biden is too old. This guy's too old. Shouldn't be running like, well, pretty. I think we call the balls and the strikes, right? The way we see them, and which I think is important for satire, you know, for satire.

[Kara Swisher]

So now you've got a new character, double headed Hydra, Trump and Elon. Last year you called Elon a loser who's trying to buy friends with million dollar checks. How are you looking at this new character for. For comedy right now?

[Ronny Chieng]

He's not that new. He's been hovering around. So it's not like a street fighter. New challenger appears. I think he's been kind of, you know, he's been hovering around the thing for quite a while.

[Kara Swisher]

He's been summer.

[Ronny Chieng]

Sure. Well, even before that I think he was hovering since Biden. He's been, he's been here since the first Trump one. Obviously not to the same extent, but. Yeah. How do you see him? I mean it's, yeah, it's another, it's another kind of MAGA figure who has his own orbit and quirks and weirdly intersects with everyone's life. And then he's also on the Internet trolling. So in a lot of ways it's like covering a Trump a little bit. Right? So that, I mean, yeah, if you ask me off the top of my head, that's how I would see it. It's almost like covering like a second Trump stature level figure. Right. That, that has household name recognition. So you don't have to explain him like versus some other kind of MAGA figure. Sometimes you have to set it up a bit. Right. Whereas Elon, everyone immediately knows what you're talking about. And he's always just like Trump. You know, he's kind of using the same kind of trolley playbook. So a lot of stuff he's saying, sometimes you can't joke his trolling because that's kind of what he wants.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that's correct. Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

Right. So you can't go like, look how ridiculous it is that he said that because that' kind of what he was trying to do in the first place, you know, which is also like the Jesse Waters thing, right? Like he'll. Jesse Waters will say something outrageous. Our job at a Daily show is satire and part of the satire is covering the news. And so we'll pull up a clip of him and we'll watch him and he's saying something ridiculous. And then it gets so ridiculous to a level where you're like, we can't even play this because he's clearly just saying it. Like it's not, we're not making a joke if we play it because he's actually, he knows what he's doing is a joke. So we're kind of like joking the joke. And what's the point of that? So, you know, that's how I see Elon.

[Kara Swisher]

Is Elon a good character from a comedy perspective?

[Ronny Chieng]

He a good character? Damn. You really looking at this from a narrative point of view?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you're making jokes about him. Is he.

[Ronny Chieng]

No, no, it's fair. It's a fair question. Is he a good character for comedy? I guess. Yeah, I guess he is. I mean, he. He's always saying new stuff, and so that's useful for a new satire show. Again, I would prefer not talking about him, but he's made himself kind of the main character on the Internet.

[Kara Swisher]

So in that way, the neighbor who won't leave, you've been trolling him for quite a while. In May 2018, he responded to a tweet from Elon saying he was going to create a site to track the credibility of journalists by writing, please buy Twitter and shut it down. Just so you remember.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, I do remember that. That was when I still used Twitter, and I guess that's. Do you remember when. When Jon Stewart was begging Donald Trump to run for president?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yes, that's right. Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah. So. So I was begging him to buy Twitter and shut it down. And you know what? He actually. Not only did he buy it, in my opinion, he kind of did shut it down a bit.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, for a lot of people, although they're raising the valuation of it. He's trying to sell shares now.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, right. Well, I mean, you know, this is more your world than mine, but I do. I definitely feel that after he bought it there, there was a bit of exodus. So thank you, Elon, for destroying it.

[Kara Swisher]

Every week we get a question from an outside expert. This week, it's coming from someone you know. Crazy Rich Agents director John Chu.

[Ronny Chieng]

Hey, Ronnie, it's your old friend John M. Chu. Here's my question. You've lived in multiple countries and cultures. Malaysia, Australia, the US and how has that shaped your sense of humor? It's. It's given me some perspective on America because I know from outsider point of view, I have strong beliefs in what America does very well. And I can also see what America doesn't do that great, because I've lived in countries, other countries, and it also, I don't know, it gives me a lot of gratitude to be in America. So I guess that informs my comedy in the sense that I feel like all my jokes come from a place of. I think there's undercurrent of love in.

[Kara Swisher]

It that you love this place.

[Ronny Chieng]

I love this place. And also I love doing comedy. I love doing comedy. I Think that comes through in the. Because I've been to countries where you can't really do comedy. I lived in countries where you can't really do it. So I think that kind of also informs, you know, and I think it also makes me feel like my comedy should be a bit more edgier because I come from places where you can't say stuff that by American standards would not be considered edgy at all. So I think it makes me a little bit more fearless, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

So given things are going now, are you all afraid of retribution? Maybe. Saturns don't tend to do well in authoritarian regimes, as you notice.

[Ronny Chieng]

Sure. I mean, we can't play scared, so I don't really play scared. I don't think, I don't think I've held any punches because I'm scared of retribution. I think we already had a Trump presidency. We, you know, we've run the experiment for eight years now. We've been talking shit for eight years. And he know there's no retribution so far. So there's also that data point. And then also. Yeah, I, I don't think he watches us. So that's, you know, so far, so.

[Kara Swisher]

I guess so far so good. Do you feel any pressure from corporation or anything else? Or is you feel like. No, I mean, obviously Jon Stewart talked about it at Apple and, And this was pre. This. Are you, Are you worried or is the group there worried in any way about that?

[Ronny Chieng]

Not that I know of. I've never, you know, I, I've been there. I can't believe I've been there nine years now. I, I have never had a directive to go, go easy in the pain. I've never had someone, you know, from any, any anonymous source. I've never had a note handed to me from anywhere where it was like, hey, can you take it? You know, I've never had that. And I, you know, I chalk that up to, we have good taste on the show, I believe. You know, I think the Daily show as an institution, everyone who works there, we, you know, very experienced. They're very. They're great comedy writers, you know, and part of comedy writing, as you know, isn't just saying the worst possible shit you can, you know, that's being an edgelord. Like, comedy is kind of like the art of getting away with it. Right? Saying something edgy and getting away with it. And I think we're good at that. And I think that's reflected in the fact that, yeah, I've never had someone give me a note to be like, hey, can you not talk about that guy who shot that guy in the head in New York City? Like, we just go hard. We just go hard. And that's why, that's also why I'm so grateful to be in America at the Daily show doing stand up comedy where it's just like, nothing's off limits. Yeah. You know, room for people just trying to make jokes.

[Kara Swisher]

You don't want to be an edgelord, Ronnie?

[Ronny Chieng]

No, I don't. Edge. Lord, no. I think that, you know, and that's a real shame. Right. I think a lot of comedy. I think what has happened is that there's been a lot of really funny, edgy comics who've managed to find a niche on the Internet and, and, you know, power to them and they're very talented people. And I think unfortunately what has happened is that they've kind of inspired a lot of these copycat like, people who watch what they do and they. Because when you're good at it, you make it look easy. And so you inspire all these kind of quite frankly, untalented, like, angry edge Lordy people who watch edgy comedy and they think that they're, they think, oh, that's what it is. I can do it. Comedy is just about saying the most fuck shit you could say in any given situation. But they miss the nuance and they miss the art and they miss the, you know, they miss the underlying ability. And it's become this thing where people think communists are saying the worst thing. Edge Lords, basically. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be back in a minute. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, no matter where you're going, the all electric Equinox EV allows you to travel with confidence, comfort and connectivity. Equinox EV comes equipped with a standard 17.7 inch diagonal color display touchscreen, making it the largest center screen among EVs in its class. Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox ev. While the no compromises. Interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995. Equinox EV. A vehicle you know. Value you'd expect, expect and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn [e-mail] Equinox EV based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price I want to do. Speaking of your latest Netflix special, Love to hate it. We talked how you build your set in terms of time. Let's talk about topics they run the gamut. From you talking about carrying your jizz through Manhattan so you and your wife can freeze her eggs to MAGA and social media to revealing the last Twitter post your dad probably read before he died. It makes sense. While you're watching it, talk about conceptualizing a show like that. It's beautifully constructed. I will tell you.

[Ronny Chieng]

Thank you. Thank you so much. I think I started doing standup comedy in Australia, and Australia has a very kind of British sensibility with comedy, which is they. They kind of favor that one man, one woman show format. So I think I kind of picked it up because I was in Australia learning the craft, and they would always try to, like, have some kind of narrative thread. And I always kind of rejected that because I always thought, just be funny. Just have funny jokes. And then I kind of realized, like, if you have both funny jokes and a little bit of a narrative thread, you can kind of. You elevate everything. And so that's always in the back of my head when I'm doing an hour. But day to day, when I'm writing the hour, it is just what's the funniest jokes? And so I just keep writing jokes. I see what's funny. I see what works in comedy clubs in New York City, which is, you know, as, you know New York City, you need to be funny fast for a long time. You can't just tell some long story about your dad on Twitter and you do these funny jokes, and then just like David lynch says, you know, you go from. To this ocean of consciousness, and then suddenly things just start connecting weirdly, you know, and then you start seeing the connection. So after you write the funny jokes, you put. You lay all of them out in front of you, and you're like, oh, there's a little bit of a connection here. And then you start crafting in that direction.

[Kara Swisher]

What did it turn out to be from your perspective? What's the narrative you were trying to go for?

[Ronny Chieng]

It unintentionally became a story about having kids, thinking about having kids, and reflection on my father having me. And, you know, it kind of became a little bit of that. It also became a little bit of a love letter to Hawaii, which I didn't intend because I spent a lot of time in Hawaii filming a TV show, two seasons of his TV show, Doogie Kemeloha on Disney. And I became quite kind of. I really just connected with Hawaii a lot. I felt like, it was.

[Kara Swisher]

I love Hawaii. It's my favorite place on earth.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah. It felt like the best of Malaysia and America in one to me.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

And Hawaii was very welcoming to me. And so I decided before I even wrote a single joke, I was like, hey, I want to film my next special in Hawaii, and I want to kind of capture that Elvis in Hawaii kind of kitschy blue Hawaii, show business vibe. Yeah. And so I had that Don Ho thrown in. Don Ho, all. All those guys. And I wanted to capture that. And that was before I wrote a single joke. And then as I wrote the hour, I. I didn't even realize until two months before I filmed it in Hawaii that, oh, Hawaii comes up a lot in the special. I t. I have a joke about maga Hawaii in it and how friendly they are. And then I have. I have a joke about, at the end about my father kind of seeing a photo of me and my wife in Hawaii and the fact that I filmed in Hawaii again. It's one of those weird, I love that universe things where suddenly everything comes together.

[Kara Swisher]

One of the things you do talk about is how men fall into self help algorithm that leads them to following the kettlebell swinging guy. I love that guy. To Andrew Tate to toxic masculinity. And then they end up storming the Capitol. Let me play a quick. I love this. This was fantastic.

[Ronny Chieng]

I'm not saying, as a man, don't take responsibility for your own actions. Okay. I'm just saying that YouTube algorithm is very alluring to straight guys. It sucks men in in a way that I don't think women understand. Like, it really preys on that men's need to seek guidance from somewhere. It's very hard to resist. It just draws. Draws you in. That's why fucking Mark Zuckerberg is trying to MMA fight Elon Musk right now. That guy fell for his own algorithm. Do you understand?

[Kara Swisher]

This is a really good point. It's absolutely true. The kettlebell swinging guy particularly is the gateway to hell. I'd love you to talk about that. Because I had this issue with my son who, when he was 13, wanted to watch Ben Shapiro. I let him. I said, I think he's an asshole, but go forward and watch him like.

[Ronny Chieng]

A good, progressive mom.

[Kara Swisher]

Mom. Exactly. I didn't want to be yelled at by Ben Shapiro, who later said, I wouldn't let him watch it. But Ben, I let him watch it. He thought you were an asshole all on his own. But what was interesting, what bothered me and what I was making the point about and Actually, Ben misconstrued. It was. He testified by Congress that I was trying to censor my son, but I wasn't anyway here nor there. But what I was upset by was it went right to algorithms that were really problematic. I was like, what are you watching now? What happened here? And he was leaning into it. He's a big kid and he just loved it and it moved him very quickly. So talk about this, this idea of what you were trying to get to.

[Ronny Chieng]

First of all, I love that went all the way to Congress, like.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it did. Oh no. I was like, take back your testimony. I let him watch you.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't have kids, so I can't speak to that. That, I can't speak to that.

[Kara Swisher]

But this is a really very interesting. You're making a very important point about social media of the, of the way it goes down into, you know, Insurrectionale, essentially.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, I can't, I can't speak to a 13 year old boy growing up in America's experience, but I can speak being a man in this time. And I think that there hasn't been a good way for men to talk about things that they're feeling, you know, truthfully, feeling deep inside. And, and then you keep bottling it up and then you feel eventually you feel wronged because you, you feel like you never got a chance to say this stuff and no one explained to you or gave you a fuller picture or even acknowledge when you are right, you know, sometimes. And so, and then that leads them down this dark path to, you know, because they're looking for it from, from somewhere. They're looking for either advice or acknowledgement or, or commiseration from somewhere and they just, they feel like they're not getting it from enough sources and, you know, rightfully or wrongfully so. Right. But that's how they genuinely feel. And then they, they unfortunately find on the Internet and the Internet, it just is not a good place to look for those things for, you know, for, for guys or for women. But again, I'm just gonna speak from a guy perspective. And like you said, I think to me it's become so obvious you do.

[Kara Swisher]

Excellent attacks on social media. I always like, he totally understands. I mean, you're not a reporter, but you're writing about things reporters write about because you really. I can't tell whether you hate it or love it. That's the thing. Because you said you were off Twitter or what do you do?

[Ronny Chieng]

I am off Twitter.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you do on social media now besides Watch the kettlebell guy.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah. So yeah, I'm off Facebook and Instagram, as in I still have accounts, but I'm not, I don't, I don't have notifications to my phone. You know, I honestly, I just kind of use it to make money now in terms of I need to sell tickets, I'll use it there and I understand what I use it for now. You know what I mean? Like I make no pretension about what it is. I'm here to make money on social media. I'm here to advertise for marketing. For marketing, yeah. And as long as I don't get sucked into it, I feel like that's the best I can do. Do I hate it? I do hate it a lot. But you know, I'm lucky because I feel like I was the last guy to slip into old media. Like I'm the last person who managed to get past the goalposts.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

Because I get to work on a daily show which is very old media. I sell tickets, which is the oldest form of show business. And I'm lucky to get cast in TV shows and stuff like that. So I was lucky. I'm so grateful that I'm in a position to be like Mark Zuckerberg. You can delete Instagram. I'll be okay. I'm okay. Actually, I'd probably be happier. But I've also seen the benefit from all my friends, my fellow standup comics who they put clips on the Internet and that's the only way they were able to build a following and sell tickets. So again, that's the love hate that.

[Kara Swisher]

You just perfectly described. Although it can lead to, as you said, a lot of bad comedy or bad singing or bad anything.

[Ronny Chieng]

Sure.

[Kara Swisher]

I think your interesting from a technical point of view, you have these really long smart buildups. You make analytical arguments and still manage to land the punchline. Let me play another moment on Love to hate it. It's long, but that's the point. Let me play it.

[Ronny Chieng]

For example, maga Make America great Again. They have a point. America is not doing so great right now. Right. Our kids math scores are down. Our children when science scores are down. When judged according to international metrics, health care systems are doing so great. Wealth gap disparities increasing exponentially. There was an implied promise to a generation of Americans that if you do certain things, work hard, go to college, be a good person, you would have certain outcomes. And those outcomes didn't materialize for majority of people because baby boomers and transient decision making positions lowered the capital gains tax so that their net worth essentially compounds your after year. And Post World War II, U.S. leadership traded the domestic manufacturing industry for national security by making the US dollar the default international trade currency, which gave America the ability to impose economic sanctions on foreign countries through a US financial banking system, but consequently increased the value of the US dollar astronomically, which made it impossible for anyone to manufacture anything in America. Although the logic at the time was that Americans were supposed to upskill en masse away from the menial manufacturing jobs. But everyone here is too much of a dumbass to stay in school, so we just traded domestic manufacturing to Asia and the rest of the world at the expense of working class families. But if you don't read enough.

[Kara Swisher]

It.

[Ronny Chieng]

Comes out as, let's go, Brenda. And it's like you have a point, but you don't have the vocabulary to describe your reality because you didn't read enough. You gotta keep reading beyond the hashtag, there's a book behind the word. You gotta keep going. You can go at your own pace, but you gotta finish the required reading. Others, we can't have a conversation.

[Kara Swisher]

This is a terrific joke. This is a tremendously well constructed joke. Would you mind talking about it for a second? Because I thought this was. I love this joke. You're obviously doing a sort of a college lecture thing and then. But making it into a very funny and true thing.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, yeah, I just thought it was. It's actually an argument. It's quite a centrist argument actually. It's a call for like, hey, can we talk about actual issues and not just yell slogans. And also there's also this idea I think of like people want five second explanations for everything, you know, especially in government or whatever. Right. And not everything's a five second explanation. Some of these, like a long technical, like multi factorial issues that, you know, require undergraduate degrees to learn. So. So a bit of it is kind of like a argument or, or maybe a weeping at the death of respect for expertise, you know, where everyone kind of like wants simple answers or they know everything. And also the, you know, as you mentioned, the. I thought it was pretty funny to just keep talking about this as long as I could.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

How long? I could, I could pull it off.

[Kara Swisher]

And you know, I think it's a perfect.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, thanks. And I actually was. I never clipped it, you know, I never clipped that bit from my special because I thought it wouldn't work on social media because it's so long winded. It kind of needs context, you know, to have it sure. But someone else clipped it and put it on the Internet and then it started going, you know, viral.

[Kara Swisher]

It really did. That was the one that really jumped out to a lot of people.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, but they did, like, I saw, like, they clicked their own version, but it was like the shittiest resolution. The subtitles was spelled wrong. Someone sped it up. It was like 1.5 speed. And I was like, that's all right. This is awful. But for some reason that, you know, we spent, you know, for me, as an artist, I spent so much time crafting the look and the timing, and then this person totally fucked it up. But it went viral. And so I'm like, all right, well, I don't know what to do about it.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it worked. It worked.

[Ronny Chieng]

No. Well, someone told me that on the. This is how bad I'm with social media. Someone told me that the fact that it looks janky makes people trust it more.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Ronny Chieng]

Because it looks like it wasn't like a marketing effort. It looks like someone clipped it. And I'm like, I guess there's logic to that. But, you know, God damn, this looks like shit.

[Kara Swisher]

It reminds me that you went. It's so interesting because you're talking like a lawyer a little bit, which is interesting. You went to law school in Australia, even passed the bar there. I know, it was a massive career shift. And you said it was going from corporate to the circuit circus. Does your legal background help you at all? I mean, are you worried that it going over their heads, or do you just have a dick joke in your pocket for an emergency?

[Ronny Chieng]

No, I think that I kind of refuse to dumb it down for the crowd.

[Kara Swisher]

You don't.

[Ronny Chieng]

Which I love, because I think you. One, I think people are smarter than people give them credit for sometimes. And also I think you attract the audience that you want. Right. So that's two. And then also. Yeah, you're right. Undercut everything with a classic. Just whatever dick joke you pull out just to make the. Make the broccoli palatable. Sugar becoming a very disgusting analogy. Yeah, put sugar. Yeah, don't. Don't put a dick joke on it. Yeah, you put sugar on it. So, yeah, and so there's that. Right. You pull it out of your hat. Right. But also the. The legal stuff, the legal background, I didn't think it helped, but my wife always kind of points it out to me. Like, the longer I've been doing comedy, the more it's like, oh, my style has developed this kind of. Like, I'm. I feel like I'M making arguments. You know, sometimes when you're doing standard comedy, you are arguing for. Sometimes you're arguing for a very preposterous or depraved point of view. And so I guess the legal background helps you in forming a coherent argument. It also helps in eliminating the irrelevant, which I've noticed a lot in not just creative creative. A lot of it is, as you know. Right. A lot of creativity is cutting out stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Ronny Chieng]

Okay, we don't need that. We don't need this editing. And I think legal background helps with that. Right. It helps you eliminate what you think you don't need. And yeah, quite frankly, I think sometimes when I talk to people about politics or even, you know, when, when you argue about politics, sometimes it's like you hear people bring up stuff and you're like, wait, all that stuff is kind of irrelevant.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Ronny Chieng]

What we're talking about.

[Kara Swisher]

I think it does help because you are. You do you cut away the crap, even if you like the joke. You know, I used to die when I cut out lines from stories and I'm like, oh, that was the right thing. Even if I like the line.

[Ronny Chieng]

I think the great comics, they all have this kind of logic to them. Right. And I think people who don't study law, I think they, they kind of hate the idea of the, of the legal system and the legal industry for many reasons. But I think if you actually study law, you realize that this is the product of many, many people over decades or centuries figuring out the logic of things. So there is a logic that end of the day that is quite stable. And so just being able to think logically is, I think, something that you get out of legal training.

[Kara Swisher]

Who, who are your influences? Who are the ones that you think are.

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, yeah. I mean, when I was coming up, it was, I love Bill Burr and he actually eps my specials now. So I'm glad to call him a friend and mentor and love Dave Chappelle. I loved everybody in New York City who was gigging Todd Berry. I mean, if you were doing stand up comedy, if you were a headliner at a comedy club, I loved you because I was watching these professionals, you know, like, man, I was like, damn, this is amazing. You know, so I was influenced by everybody. Seinfeld.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you did sign for this thing. Doing this three deal Netflix special. This was your third. Will you stay with the streamer? Are you looking? What is that economy? Like now you have to have these streaming shows.

[Ronny Chieng]

Wow. No one's ever asked me that, well, I'm a business lady, so I, I think the business. It's very interesting, as you mentioned, that, because the power keeps shifting about who is the number one for comedy. You know, it used to be hbo. HBO was like to do it. It was like, oh, my God, if you get HBO Special, that means you are it, you know, And Netflix came along. Comedy Central was in there for a long time. Netflix has come along. You know, I can't tell who's number one. I think Hulu has just entered the chat with comedy specials. So I don't really know where the industry is going. And then now, right, people are just putting on YouTube now, entire specials.

[Kara Swisher]

Why even bother?

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, why even bother, you know? Well, I, I, you know, you can get paid on streamers, whereas YouTube, you're kind of going off your own back. So I don't know. I don't know where the power is. I think it really depends on one, who's offering you, because you can only accept offers that are made. So are you getting the offers? And two, what your personal relationship to your fans is, you know, like, some people are more men and women of the people. So we're on YouTube, you know, we're underground. And that's cool, right? That's very cool. And some people are like, well, on Netflix, you know, were the Netflix comics, you know, and, but, but, you know, all this is not up to us. This is up to the free market and the streamers have to make offers.

[Kara Swisher]

And there is an appeal to doing it yourself on YouTube, I can tell you that.

[Ronny Chieng]

There is. There is also an appeal to making money on a streamer, right?

[Kara Swisher]

That's true. Which they do them right now. I think Netflix is ascendant. I think you're correct. Are you signing a new deal?

[Ronny Chieng]

I. I hope so. So, yeah, I hope they. I hope they have me back. You know, Netflix stuck their neck out for me. Like, my first special, no one wanted it. My very first one, Asian Comedian Stores America. I was shopping around, I was asking people come. And I say this with no bitterness because I get the game, but nobody really wanted it. And so I kind of gave up on trying to make one. I was like, I'm just going to tour live. If anyone wants to ever buy it, I'll do it, whatever. And then Netflix, they stuck their neck on, was like, hey, we love it. Let's do it. And they've supported me ever since. And honestly, for me, having Netflix in my corner has allowed me to turn down many shitty offers that I would hate to do. And I get to do that because I'm like, oh, end of the day, I can do it with these guys. I have my special offer.

[Kara Swisher]

What's your shittiest offer?

[Ronny Chieng]

Oh, you know, people come in and be like, hey, can you do, you know, we want you to go, you know, look silly and be goofy and sell this product like advertising, goofy advertising stuff or like bad commercial, like come and. Come and do a standout spot for these rich assholes. Yeah, I, it basically just empowered me to be like, guys, I'm okay. I, I don't need unlimited money.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Ronny Chieng]

Netflix is taking care of me. I'll. I rather do that. Like, meaning if you want to. Yeah, meaning if you want to hire me, you, you have to, you have to kind of be on my, Meet me on my terms and, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Al Pacino was on Dunkin Donuts.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, I'll do Dunkin Donuts. No problem.

[Kara Swisher]

You'll be Dunkin Donuts, no problem. Okay, we'll be back in a minute. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, no matter where you're going, the all electric Equinox EV allows you to travel, confidence, comfort and connectivity. Equinox EV comes equipped with a standard 17.7 inch diagonal color display touchscreen, making it the largest center screen among EVs in its class. Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox ev. While the no compromises. Interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995. Equinox EV, a vehicle, you know, valued, you'd expect and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn [e-mail] Equinox EV based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets, final price. I want to finish up talking about your acting career. You got your big break in Hollywood with crazy rich Asians. John Chu, who directed it, sent us a question. I was still waiting for him to get to crazy rich Asians too. We'll see what happens there.

[Ronny Chieng]

He's the best.

[Kara Swisher]

He is the best. Last year though, you were in Hulu series Interior Chinatown, based on a book by Charles Yu. It's really stereotypical or even non existent about that. The stereotypical, even non existent Asian representation in Hollywood. The main character is Willis Wu, who wants to stop being a background character and becoming a main character like Kung Fu Guy. You play his best friend, Fatty Choi, who goes viral as angry Asian waiter. Talk a little bit about this. I think this is wonderful. Talk about the character and how the storyline ties into the set.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, I'll give you guys the quick pitch on this show. Like, who cares about me? The show is brilliant. The show is so smart, it's so meta. It's like Twin Peaks meets Law and Order, I guess, because in the show, all these characters are on a TV show and they just slowly start to realize that they become self aware that they're on a TV show. And that's not just, you know, the main characters are these two Asian guys, Jimmy Oyang and me, Willis Wu and Fatty Choi. But then there's also a Law and Order show happening in the show with these other characters, and they also start to figure out that they're in a TV show. So everyone starts kind of like becoming self aware and it gets. It gets weirder. But there's a great social message behind that, which is kind of like people who feel like background characters in their lives, you know, And I think a lot of people in America feel that way. I mean, I think this show was written obviously, the. The surface level is about Asian people feeling like background characters in America a lot of the time, because we're not really active in politics or entertainment and we don't really have influence the way white people and black people have. So sometimes you feel like, oh, we're just here to, you know, vote for people. Sometimes someone will say hello to us in Chinese and then we're supposed to vote for them or, you know, whatever it is. And so it speaks to that. But honestly, it speaks to anyone who feels like a background character here. You know, black, Native American, Latino, you know, gay, whatever, lesbian. If you feel like a background character sometimes. I mean, that this show is kind of about that, you know, and it's very smartly written. Taika Waititi directed the pilot.

[Kara Swisher]

He did amazing.

[Ronny Chieng]

And it was a dream project to do. It shot beautifully and I think the ending is very satisfying. I think so.

[Kara Swisher]

The book Interior Chinatown came out in 2020 for people who don't know that was after crazy rich Asians. But since then, your Marvel movie Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings came out.

[Ronny Chieng]

I can't call it mine.

[Kara Swisher]

I can't call it mine. And everything everywhere all at once went big at the Oscars. And of course, you now co host the Daily Show. Do you think. Think things have gotten better in terms of Asian representation or any different? Not because there's a big push against dei. I find it really interesting when a movie like say a Black Panther does well, they're like, oh, look at that. And I'm like, it's not a DEI movie. It's a great movie. It's just a great movie.

[Ronny Chieng]

So yeah, that's the problem.

[Kara Swisher]

That's the reaction, right?

[Ronny Chieng]

Yes, yes. So has it gotten better? It's gotten, I mean, a little bit better, sure. I mean, undoubtedly. I think the main problem is that this argument about, about diversity in Hollywood specifically is a bit of a. I feel like it's a bit of a misnomer sometimes because it's not about diversity in terms of statistical. How many Asians do we put in how many movies or whatever? It's about like authenticity and storytelling, like making good movies. And part of that is having Asian people in decision making positions, you know, as producers or executives. Because as you know. Right. That's the layer that is like, you can be all diverse as you want here and whatever, but when you hit you, you as when you're making something, you go up the chain of decision making. Eventually you hit this layer where suddenly everyone is like, we can't cast this person, obviously, because this person, you know, we need this or we, you know, we need a gay Asian here. And then you're like, oh, this is where the, this is where the problem is. You know, the problem isn't down here with the creators. The problem is in that decision making layer in Hollywood anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Ronny Chieng]

So absolutely. Yeah. Because they can give people kind of like cursory decision making power, but then really it's not there. And so I think that affects the storytelling because you have people who are either they're trying to tell diverse stories, but they fuck it up because they put the diversity before the story and then everyone looks bad, the project doesn't go well, and then were worse than we were when we started. Right. So I think that is the main problem. To me, it's not casting, you know, on camera is one issue, but the executive level and the producer level level is the other issue.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it does. It's a story matters the most of all. That's what always succeeds.

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah. Because we all want good stories. We don't want to just make for the sake of it, just because as a bunch of Asians or whatever, you know, we want to make good show. So how does that happen? That happens because decision makers are able to have taste and tell what's good and what's authentic and not force inauthentic. Decisions onto good stories.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, Right, Absolutely. In that bite, I'm just wondering, what do you think the next step for you in terms of main character energy? Your next stint hosting the Daily show is coming up in March. If you could get your own show, what would it be? I know. I think it's working rather well with all of you shifting, honestly. I know there was a big search for a king, not a queen. It would have been a king. But how do you like that? And would you like your own show, or is this kind of group thing better, do you think?

[Ronny Chieng]

Yeah, I love the Daily Show. I think the group thing keeps anyone, one person from burning out, which I think is important.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a significant problem.

[Ronny Chieng]

It's a significant problem. I think it gives a different perspective every week, which I think is interesting. I think the truth of the matter is also that nobody really knows, as in the general public, I don't think they actually know who's hosting. So. Meaning the way the show is consumed now is segments on social media.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Ronny Chieng]

No one is watching the whole show through. So as far as anyone's concerned, like, Jon Stewart is still hosting it, and in many ways, he is. He's hosting the whole show. We're just helping him out. You know what I mean? So the way the show is consumed has played a factor in terms of we don't have that linear television. Here's the host, and we're watching the show. Appointment viewing right now. We're just watching clips. So it almost doesn't have that bigger impact.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you think that era is over? Would you want your own show? What would be different when you say.

[Ronny Chieng]

You want your own show? Yeah, I would love to do my own show, but not a talk show. I would love to do a scripted narrative or scripted movie, I think, you know, because I get my rocks off doing to the camera, satire from the Daily show, and we're never gonna top that. This is the institution. It's the Harvard Business School of comedy and satire. So I think the only other thing what's more interesting to me is cracking scripted narrative and having social messaging through scripted narrative, which I think actually goes down better, you know, than someone to the camera kind of. Of outrage, evisceration, lecturing, because that kind of. You kind of preach to the choir a little bit. You're better off doing a scripted narrative show that you tell a story that has a more impact in it, that makes people see other points of view. Right? So to me, that's for my own project. That's probably what I would aspire to, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Also an area under pressure too, in a weird way, but at the same time. So last question, we talked about your career as an actor, a standup host, television, late night comedian. If you could add another pillar, what would it be? I know you sell socks with your face on them. Do you.

[Ronny Chieng]

No, I'm okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you. Do you want to do a fourth thing?

[Ronny Chieng]

No, I'm okay. I got. I'm trying to figure out these dumb jokes in. In a. In. I'm trying to tell these dick jokes in a bar.

[Kara Swisher]

That's all.

[Ronny Chieng]

I'm. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Dick jokes in a bar, that's all you do. Just a simple dick joke in a bar guy.

[Ronny Chieng]

Dick joke in a New York City dive bar.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So you wouldn't want to do anything else, would you? Go to politics or anything else?

[Ronny Chieng]

No, no, I'm. I just. I'm just. I'm trying to literally get this jokes to work on the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all.

[Kara Swisher]

That's all. Okay, then I'll leave it at that. I really appreciate it, Ronnie. You're a wonderful and creative thinker and I really appreciate all you do.

[Ronny Chieng]

Thanks for having me on. Thanks for speaking to me. And yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castor, Russell, Kateri Yocum, Dave Shaw, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane and Kalen Lynch. Nicholas Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Gallagher. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you read past the hashtag. If not, go listen to a dick joke in a bar or maybe on Pivot from Scott Galloway. Though wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media podcast podcast network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more thanks to Chevrolet for their support. No matter how far or short your journey is, the Equinox EV has you covered with a massive 17.7-inch diagonal touchscreen. And starting around $34,995, you can hit the road and still afford snacks. Equinox ev, a vehicle you know, values you'd expect in a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn more at chevy. Com Equinox ev. The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.