Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher

Episode: Fighting for Truth in a Rage-Driven Algorithmic Age with Jessica Yellin
Date: November 27, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Jessica Yellin (Founder, News Not Noise)

Episode Overview

Kara Swisher sits down with Jessica Yellin, pioneering independent journalist and creator of the multimedia platform News Not Noise, to dissect the “information war” raging across digital and legacy media. The discussion, recorded live at the University of Wisconsin’s Center for Journalism Ethics, explores the challenges, opportunities, and ethical dilemmas faced by journalists and news consumers in a world shaped by social media algorithms, billionaire-backed media empires, and AI-generated content. The episode is both a critique of media consolidation and an optimistic scan for solutions, including certification for independent creators and collaboration over competition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Information War”: Who’s Winning, Who's Losing

• Definition and Landscape:
  • Yellin describes the current media climate as an “information war,” emphasizing that platforms reward virality over veracity.

    “The people who are winning the war on social media are people who understand that it's an environment built for virality, not veracity.” (Jessica Yellin, 04:29)

  • Algorithmically tailored content amplifies emotion, not truth, giving an edge to performers, money-backed actors, and bots.
• Legacy Media’s Waning Influence:
  • Billionaires now control mass media, shaping narratives and amplifying polarization.

    “Buying up the press is to push one's view of our country onto people.” (Jessica Yellin, 06:37)

  • Dying institutions still set the agenda by generating source material for social content, maintaining indirect influence.

2. Erosion of Trust in News

• Trump’s Brand and Media Attacks:
  • Swisher and Yellin discuss relentless attacks from political figures like Trump on fact-based journalism, leading to public skepticism and deep ambivalence.

    “Audiences fundamentally think they're being savvy if they disbelieve.” (Jessica Yellin, 10:12)

• Impact on Journalists:
  • Increased skepticism, fear for safety, and operational risks for journalists working in the U.S., as global press freedoms erode domestically.

3. Algorithms: Black Boxes Shaping Reality

• Opaque Power:
  • Yellin details the unpredictable, often punitive impact of social media algorithms on independent journalism and audience growth.

    “I have audience members telling me, 'I search your name and cannot find you.'” (Jessica Yellin, 14:39)

  • Advocates for algorithmic transparency laws, likening platforms to media utilities in urgent need of regulation.
• Shadow Banning and Visibility:
  • Real-world examples of sudden reach drops, inexplicable suppression, and “shadow bans” despite official platform denials.

4. AI and Information Overload

• AI’s Double-Edged Sword:
  • The explosion of AI-generated content heightens misinformation risks by making it nearly impossible to verify sources, especially in conflict zones.

    “AI-generated content is difficult because very soon we're going to be at a place where it's going to be impossible to tell…if these videos are real.” (Jessica Yellin, 17:26)

• Journalistic Caution:
  • Yellin exercises restraint, often refusing to publish unverifiable war zone visuals, even at the cost of missing viral stories.

5. Searching for Solutions: Certifying Trust & Creator Collaboration

• Certification System Proposal:
  • Suggests a “Better Business Bureau for news creators”—a voluntary, nonprofit certification process focusing on evidence-based journalism, transparency, and ongoing standards.

    “It’s about a process…transparency, disclosures, do you change the information when the information changes? Basic journalistic principles.” (Jessica Yellin, 20:33)

• Bundling and Teaming Up:
  • To combat subscription fatigue, proposes networks of like-minded creators who cross-promote, share back-office resources, and potentially offer bundled subscriptions.
• Legacy Media-Independent Collaboration:
  • Pushes for partnerships (not ownership) between legacy newsrooms and social-first independents, to mutually boost engagement and credibility.

    “Many days, I'm explaining a story that The New York Times broke. So why not actually partner...and drive people back to their publications?” (Jessica Yellin, 25:48)

6. Empowering News Consumers

• Basic Media Literacy:
  • Training audiences to verify sources, search creators’ profiles, and recognize bots/disinformation.
  • Recognizes that many people feel overwhelmed—desperately seeking reliable curators for everything from news to life decisions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Virality vs. Veracity:

  “The people who are winning the war on social media are people who understand it's an environment built for virality, not veracity.”
  — Jessica Yellin (04:29)

• On Why Billionaires Buy Media:

  “Buying up the press is to push one's view of our country onto people.”
  — Jessica Yellin (06:37)

• On Public Trust Crisis:

  “Audiences fundamentally think they're being savvy if they disbelieve.”
  — Jessica Yellin (10:12)

• On Shadowbanning:

  “‘I search your name and I literally cannot find you.’...The organization says they don't shadow ban...and yet I'm living this experience.”
  — Jessica Yellin (14:39)

• On AI Content:

  “Very soon we're going to be at a place where it's going to be impossible to tell…if these videos are real.”
  — Jessica Yellin (17:26)

• On Certification:

  “It’s about a process…transparency, disclosures, do you change the information when the information changes? Basic journalistic principles.”
  — Jessica Yellin (20:33)

• Kara’s Closing Rallying Cry:

  “If you don't like being made to lie down, get the fuck up.”
  — Kara Swisher (50:46)

• On Algorithmic Anxiety:

  “I'm most worried that the algorithms and these titans of tech will drown out the voices that are responsible.”
  — Jessica Yellin (49:29)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening / Information War Defined: 03:55 - 05:47
• Billionaires & the Press: 05:47 - 09:43
• Trump and Attacks on Fact-Based Journalism: 09:43 - 12:22
• Social Media, Algorithms & Shadow Banning: 13:22 - 16:24
• AI Content & Journalistic Verification: 16:57 - 18:16, 45:26 - 46:35
• Certification & Innovation for Creators: 18:16 - 22:38
• Creators Teaming Up & Bundling: 22:38 - 24:57
• Legacy Media-Independent Collaboration: 24:57 - 27:52
• Advice to News Consumers: 27:52 - 30:39
• Monetization Challenges & Advice to New Indies: 33:20 - 41:45
• Final Reflection on Media's Future: 46:35 - 51:58

Advice for Aspiring Independent Journalists (Expert Q&A)

From Ben Smith’s Expert Question (37:40):

• Show a personal side—transparency and authenticity win audience trust.
• Don’t rely solely on Big Tech platforms:

  “Don’t build your business on Meta…find another place to build your business. And that is still true.” (Jessica Yellin, 40:11)

• Focus and pick a monetizable lane; don’t try to do everything at once.

Closing Reflections & Future Outlook

• Opportunities:
  There’s unprecedented access to diverse voices, with the potential for a more vibrant, innovative, and inclusive media landscape thanks to independent creators.
• Concerns:
  Algorithms and tech titans risking the marginalization of trustworthy journalism in pursuit of profit and controversy.
• Message to Independents:
  Keep innovating, don’t apologize for outgrowing legacy norms, and consider teaming up for resilience.
• Kara’s Parting Message:
  The crisis in media is a battle worth entering; hope—and the responsibility for truth—rests with young people and proactive creators more than ever.