Gavin Newsom on His Memoir, Trump, and Plans for 2028

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

On with Kara Swisher
Episode: Gavin Newsom on His Memoir, Trump, and Plans for 2028
Date: March 2, 2026
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: California Governor Gavin Newsom
Recording: Live at San Francisco’s Golden Gate Theater

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Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with California Governor Gavin Newsom, focusing on his new memoir Young Man in a Hurry, his experiences as governor, his perspective on the Democratic Party’s challenges, his evolving public identity, family influences, decision-making as a leader, and speculation about a 2028 presidential run. Kara Swisher brings her trademark incisive tone, incisively probing Newsom on personal history, policy, party strategy, and national crises—all before a live San Francisco audience.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Memoir: Young Man in a Hurry (03:35–16:14)

• Origin of the Title: The title is borrowed from an Economist article that portrayed Newsom as “a young man in a hurry,” which he embraced as both a compliment and self-critique.
  • Newsom: “I connected with it not as a critique, an external critique, but a self critique.” (04:00)
• Book’s Approach: Unlike a typical political memoir, Newsom says his book scrutinizes, rather than sanitizes, his life and family’s influence.
  • Newsom: “It’s about insecurity, it’s about anxiety, it’s about becoming a better person, a better man.” (05:57)
  • The memoir “wrote itself” as Newsom unearthed family stories and processed childhood struggles. (14:33)
  • Newsom’s editor, Ann Godoff, pushed him to focus less on politics: “That’s the only good one [the chapter about my mother]. That’s the book I want.” (07:28)
• Comparison to Obama’s Memoir: Swisher likens Newsom’s book to Obama’s Dreams from My Father, noting its confessional tone and generational ambition. (08:15)

2. Family, Identity, and Struggle (15:29–27:02)

• Straddling Two Worlds: Newsom discusses growing up with a hard-working, single mother and a father connected to the powerful Getty family, resulting in feelings of impostor syndrome and insecurity.
  • Newsom: “I played into it [the prince label]. I reinforced it through my own actions, how complicit I am.” (16:00)
• Mother’s Influence: The memoir centers on Newsom’s mother, her grit as a single mom, and her traumatic past.
  • Notable moment: Newsom describes her death by assisted suicide and the lasting impact on him. (17:55)
  • Quote: “You call her in the book impenetrable...when she told you, ‘It’s okay to be average.’” (19:49)
• Dyslexia and Insecurity: Newsom is forthright about his learning disability and how difficulties at school shaped both his own anxieties and his understanding of parental sacrifice.
  • “The big part of this book is that relationship to my own academic challenges, my own insecurity...marks my own anxiety.” (19:58)
• Reconciling Parental Aspirations: His mother didn’t want him in politics, while his father dreamed of it; Newsom feels he ultimately followed his father’s path, despite recognizing the costs. (21:53)
• Navigating Privilege and Exclusion: A vivid memory: At a fancy Getty event abroad, “Which one are you?”—“I’m Gavin Newsom, not one of the Getty boys,” leading to instant disinterest from a socialite. (24:46)

3. Leadership, Marriage Equality, and Moral Authority (31:21–38:28)

• San Francisco Marriage Licenses: Newsom recounts his decision, as mayor, to allow same-sex marriages in 2004—even as party leaders urged him not to.
  • Quote: “We broke the law, but when the court said stop, we stopped. The rule of law applied.” (37:09)
• Leadership Trade-offs: Swisher draws parallels between Newsom’s and Trump’s uses of executive power. Newsom distinguishes his actions by intent and adherence to legal boundaries.
  • Newsom: “One thing Donald Trump is incapable of...He doesn’t understand the difference between formal authority and moral authority.” (38:16)

4. Democratic Party Strategy and Fighting Trumpism (39:02–48:59)

• Redistricting and Aggressive Tactics: Newsom advocates for fighting fire with fire, recounting how Democrats successfully reversed Trump’s mid-decade redistricting maneuver in California.
  • Notable quote: “The problem with the Democratic Party so often is we appear weak and we've got to be stronger and we've got to be more assertive.” (42:57)
• Echo Chambers and Media: Newsom decries right-wing media’s “illusion rules, not facts,” motivating his appearances on Fox and embrace of a more combative approach.
• Cultural Norms Debate: Responding to an expert’s question about his call for Democrats to be “more culturally normal,” Newsom clarifies the need for strategic framing but insists diversity is core to Democratic values. (44:24–50:10)
  • Newsom: “We don’t tolerate our diversity, we celebrate it.” (44:37)

5. Wealth, Taxation, and California’s Tech Dilemma (52:59–57:57)

• The Billionaire Tax Proposal: Newsom opposes a proposed California billionaire tax as counterproductive at the state level, citing mobility of wealth.
  • Newsom: “Do we need to have a tax policy in this country...for the ultra wealthy? Absolutely...But at a state basis...the challenge is ability [of] people to move.” (53:48)
• Tech's Political Shift: Swisher and Newsom agree that, while some “loudmouth” figures have shifted hard right, most in Silicon Valley remain moderate or progressive.
• Economic Inequality: Quotes Plutarch on the dangers of dramatic wealth gaps and calls for “democratizing our economy so we can save democracy.” (56:26)

6. 2028 Presidential Run and Family Considerations (58:11–61:42)

• Will He Run? Swisher presses Newsom about presidential ambitions; he maintains that his family has veto power over any decision.
  • Quote: “If any one of them say no chance, I won’t even give it a second thought.” (60:37)
  • Shares humorous anecdotes about his children eagerly awaiting the end of his governorship.

7. Tech Policy, National Security, and Trump’s Foreign Policy (61:52–67:09)

• AI Guardrails: Newsom praises Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei for refusing Pentagon contracts that crossed ethical lines—contrasting this with OpenAI’s willingness to partner.
• Trump and Iran: Newsom condemns Trump’s escalation with Iran as reckless, motivated by political weakness and distraction.
  • Newsom: “He manufactured it. And now we’re manufacturing a crisis of outcomes unknown.” (63:56)
• Fears for Democracy: Alarms at authoritarian tactics—federalizing National Guard, intimidating voters, manipulating media ownership—and the risk of democratic backsliding.

8. Epstein Files and Corruption Concerns (67:09–71:24)

• Epstein Files Fallout: Newsom links aggressive cover-ups and the suppression of damaging files to Trump-era corruption.
  • Predicts potential pardons and deletions of files if Trump maintains executive power.

9. Closing: Best- and Worst-Case Scenarios (71:35–73:54)

• Worst Case: Loss of vigilance allows Trumpism to undermine democratic institutions; complicity among right-wing media and enablers.

• Best Case: Civic engagement and active citizenship defeat Trump.

  • Quote: “In a democracy, the most important office is...the office of citizen active, not inert citizenship.” (73:30)

• On a Sequel: Swisher jokes about a follow-up memoir (“Old Man in a Walker”).

  • Newsom suggests the true value was simply being able to tell his story—especially as an act of tribute to his family and city. (73:54–75:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership & Moral Authority:
  “We broke the law, but when the court said stop, we stopped. ...We used not just our formal authority, but our moral authority. That’s the frame of my response to your question. ...That is one thing Donald Trump is incapable of.”
  (Gavin Newsom – 38:16)

• On Writing the Memoir:
  “I finally was able to tell my story and give you my perspective. I stress tested my own assumptions and tried to crack open, go a little bit deeper.”
  (Gavin Newsom – 14:33)

• On Family & Sacrifice:
  “You call her in the book impenetrable...when she told you, ‘It’s okay to be average.’ ...She was just saying, ‘It’s okay to be you.’”
  (Newsom – 21:35)

• On Tax Policy:
  “Do we need to have a tax policy in this country...for the ultra wealthy? Absolutely...But at a state basis...the challenge is ability [of] people to move.”
  (Gavin Newsom – 53:48)

• On the Democratic Party:
  “We appear weak and we’ve got to be stronger and we’ve got to be more assertive.”
  (Newsom – 42:57)

• On Fighting Trumpism:
  “We cannot take our eye off the ball. We can’t allow this to be normalized. ...That’s what he wants. It’s the shock and awe. He wants to break us down. He wants to exhaust us.”
  (Newsom – 70:55)

• On Civic Power:
  “In a democracy, the most important office is not governor or president, it’s office of citizen active, not inert citizenship.”
  (Newsom – 73:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Start & Memoir Discussion: 03:35–16:14
• Family, Privilege, and Struggle: 15:29–27:02
• Marriage Equality & Leadership: 31:21–38:28
• Democratic Strategy & Redistricting: 39:02–48:59
• Cultural Norms Debate: 44:24–50:10
• Billionaire Tax & Tech: 52:59–57:57
• Presidential Ambitions & Family: 58:11–61:42
• AI, National Security, Iran Crisis: 61:52–67:09
• Epstein Files & Corruption: 67:09–71:24
• Closing Thoughts & Scenarios: 71:35–75:54

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Candid, introspective, at times emotional (especially family and memoir sections)
• Combative and direct when discussing party politics and Trump
• Humorous moments; playful banter between Newsom and Swisher, particularly about personal quirks and the “Prince Gavin” label

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a revealing blend of personal story, leadership philosophy, and hard-edged political analysis. Newsom’s vulnerability—about his family, insecurities, and regrets—adds depth beyond the normal campaign narrative. Swisher’s tough questions keep the conversation honest and relevant, especially on the future of democracy, the Democratic Party’s crossroads, and Newsom’s own ambitions. Whether or not he runs in 2028, listeners will have a more layered understanding of who Newsom is—and what’s at stake for Democrats in the coming political cycle.

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Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

I like how you bring your wife here to try to get me to be nice.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's it. I know that was. I mean, we worked on that speech for the last. Better part of the last week.

[Kara Swisher]

Sadly, it's not gonna work.

[Gavin Newsom]

Unbelievable.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is California Governor Gavin News. He's on the short list of Democrats expected to run for president in 2028, and he's arguably the front runner. Will probably be a very crowded field, at least at this point. While Newsom hasn't made his presidential ambitions officially yet, he's kind of telegraphing it all the time. And he's out with a new memoir that definitely makes it seem like he's running. He is running. Let's stop playing games. The book is called Young man in a Hurry, and the promotional tour has him conveniently passing through some major swing states and early primary states like Georgia and South Carolina.

[Gavin Newsom]

But.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

But Newsom's tour and book have gotten mixed reviews. And the criticisms speak to something Newsom has grappled with in his political life, his own identity and what it means. Is he the son of a single mom who held down three jobs to support her kids, or the son of a top confidant to one of the richest families in the world? Is he the man who led the California resistance during President Trump's first term, or the one who sat down with Steve Bannon for an episode of his podcast in the early days of Trump's second term? I have been a longtime California resident. I think a lot of Gavin Newsom. I think he's really interesting and complex, and I think it'll be really interesting to see how the public reacts to him. He's been very good about pressing back at President Trump. What he did around gay marriage was incredibly heroic. At the same time, some people think he's a little too malleable to whatever it takes to win, and he's too ambitious. There's all kinds of things around Gavin Newsom, but it's okay to have a complex person running for president. It's probably a good thing. All right, let's get to my conversation with Gavin Newsom. Our expert question comes from Jennifer Welch, who co hosts the progressive politics podcast I've Had It. Conversation was taped in front of a live audience this past Saturday at San Francisco's Golden Gate Theater. Don't go anywhere. This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.comwith an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. When things get hard. How do you talk to yourself? I'm Robinar Son, VP of Fitness programming and head instructor at Peloton. And this week on my new podcast Project Swagger, I'm sharing my strategies for how to build better self talk. It's time to work on befriending yourself. Follow Project Swagger wherever you get your podcasts. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, we've got something for everyone. We're talking about the US Women Olympians taking home more medals than the men, the U.S. women's national team roster heading into the she Believes cup and the latest on the WNBA CBA negotiations. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube

[Gavin Newsom]

it is on.

[Kara Swisher]

Gavin Newsom, thanks for coming on on. There's lots to talk about. This is the last year's governor. You've got plans for what's next. So welcome. Gavin Newsom. Governor Newsom, thank you.

[Gavin Newsom]

Thank you. Thank you everybody for being here. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, we're going to start with your new memoir, Young man in a Hurry. Good title. Excellent title. But one of the things, I mean,

[Gavin Newsom]

you like the title, Honestly, what do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

I thought you could have smiled more on the COVID but I'm teasing. I always tease men about that.

[Gavin Newsom]

And were you able to pick up why it's called Young Men in a Hurry?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Why don't you tell people? I did. Go ahead.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, well, I mean, well, we can. Let's get into that in a moment. But it is interesting. The actual title comes from the Economist magazine that did what I could objectively describe as a bit of a hit piece on me and said I was running Gavin Newsom wants to be governor of California and then talked about this young man in a Hurry. And I love the way they described it. And in so many ways I connected with it not as a critique, an external critique, but a self critique. The more that I absorbed and looked back when I had a chance to reread the article about future. Right.

[Kara Swisher]

But it is a trope. It is a trope of a young man, like desperate to like to either come out to California or whatever.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. No, I mean, look, the whole book and I, you know, I appreciate the way Jen described it. It's not a politician's book. If you came to get a Book about politics, ten point plan, how to, you know, restore the American dream. That's not what this is about. It's a book that is, you know, really scrutinizes who I am, not sanitizes. It really sort of break through and challenged my own assumptions of myself, my family relationship to a lot of issues that all of us here have a very intimate relationship to. And I tried to just sort of break the core of who I was and stress test it in a way that ultimately led me to a subtitle called A Memoir of Discovery. In the process of writing this, I learned about my parents, I learned about my grandparents, and I learned about myself in a way that has, you know, really shifted my mindset and radically altered the world. Yeah, Myself, my relationship to my job as an elected official, how I put a mask on, how I had a pose growing up, how I tried to become someone I wasn't, how my face started to grow into the mask, how I showed up even as a kid. I mean, I was wearing suits to high school.

[Kara Swisher]

This does not surprise me.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, it doesn't surprise you, but you know, it's all in an effort to overcompensate. And so it's really a journey. It's about insecurity, it's about anxiety, it's about that insecurity anxiety that's still with me today. It's about constantly becoming a better person, a better man.

[Kara Swisher]

It was a memoir at first, right? Ann Gadoff shifted it. It was more of a wonk book.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. Just very briefly of the history of this and God bless Ann. She literally passed on the day of the publication and anyone who knows and the book world, she's a rock star, a legendary. She's the Kara Swisher of publishing in so many ways. And she's tough beyond words. And so I submitted the book and originally it was the first year I was in office and she asked be interesting. She said, talk about Trump. At the time Trump 1.0 was still president, I was governor and then Covid hit and ultimately I worked through the process of finishing the book about my first four years. And it was relationship to Trump and it was relationship to the Biden campaign campaign and obviously to a lot of the challenges trovials in the state of California. I submitted the book never forget on zoom and bated breath. And I was absolutely convinced that if there was going to be a critique, I was really proud of it, that the critique would be this one chapter talking about my mother and my dad. And I remember she said, well, and you could just feel she was about to. I said, I'm happy to take out that chapter. And she cuts me out and says, that's the only good one. I thought, Jesus. She says, that's the book I want. She said, I thought I knew you. And she said, the reason I did this is I thought I knew you. And I don't think I know you as well as I know she thought I was some pampered prince trust fund kid and she had no idea of that 19 year old as Jen described raising.

[Kara Swisher]

So it became a memoir when it wasn't.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. And so then I had to go back and write a whole nother book. And the book became. That's when I talk about this being a memoir of discovery. When you have to go back and you have to go back much deeper and you've got to understand, you know, things that you know that you can't sanitize in a one chapter bio of your entire life. And that has become just a. It's been a revelatory process for me.

[Kara Swisher]

It had a feel of Obama's book like that. That was sort of a version of that.

[Gavin Newsom]

No. And you know, impossible not to have loved that book. Of course, at the time, no one paid much attention to that book. And then OB became Obama and everyone went back to it and learned those motivations, those setbacks, a little bit of work. Sure.

[Kara Swisher]

Which was not an unsimilar story. So in the beginning of the book you were talking about the Gold Rush. You noted we've never really rid ourselves of its voracious impulse. Nice pair of words together there. I'd like to start you asking what that meant and also how that manifests today and in your own ambitions.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, it's interesting, when I first became governor, I got sworn in and I was with Native American community doing the first official apology in the state of California for the genocide against Native American people in our state. And I quoted the first. The first Governor Barnett, 18, I think it was. I believe his first state of the state was in 1853. And he literally talked about the war of extermination and they talked about bounties for scalps. And it was a celebrated speech at the time. And you know, the book opens up with me sitting near the American River, a river that was very familiar to me in my youth because I was connected with. My father, was a fierce environmentalist. And one connection I did have with my father when I was young was episodic. He had left us when I was relatively. He had run For San Francisco supervisor. Lost. Ran for state senate and lost. And I didn't know. And thank God his oral history was not lost. We found at the Bancroft Library. He talked about those two races. He never talked to me about those two races. And it said that he was broke and broke in and that's the reason he left. He needed change of scenery and went up to Lake Tahoe and left my mom with two young kids again. Neither of them ever talked about why they got divorced. But I begin the book reflecting on the American river, our connection to Eureka.

[Kara Swisher]

Eureka tried to paint this picture of this voraciousness. Yeah, it's an unusual thing to pick

[Gavin Newsom]

at the beginning of your book because we have voracious appetites. Consumption over consumption, sort of an unctuousness and in so many ways extractions. Water, of course, marks so much of the consideration.

[Kara Swisher]

What would you say your voracious impulse was?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I've had many, I imagine, and I think many of them are described in this book.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they are.

[Gavin Newsom]

I was of course describing the state, not my state of being, but the state's sort of history in relationship. Go west, young man, go west. This notion of California being a state of dreamers, of doers, of entrepreneurs. But so much of our politics is defined by water policy, defined by consumption, some cases overconsumption, defined by scarcity, not just abundance. And so this notion of virus. Voraciousness. Yeah, describing that.

[Kara Swisher]

So I'm curious, so what prompted you to write the book? Aside from the obvious reasons of running for president? Now let me say. We're not going to be paying. We're not going to be playing that game that they like to do on CNN now.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Reviews.

[Kara Swisher]

Reviews are mixed. Have you read the reviews?

[Gavin Newsom]

I literally have not. Oh good.

[Kara Swisher]

I can do that for you.

[Gavin Newsom]

Ok. God bless.

[Kara Swisher]

These are kind of interesting. They just can't give you. I think it's beautifully written. I have to say I liked it a lot. But he can be both irritatingly slick and refreshingly resolute. That was one of them.

[Gavin Newsom]

That was about the book or me?

[Kara Swisher]

You.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, the book.

[Kara Swisher]

You in the. It's your memoir. It is you. This one I liked. It's like hillbilly elegy but for middle class alcoholics in the Bay Area with close ties to petroleum Magnitz. Because when I think of you, I think of J.D. vance. I do not. You know, it's. No, I don't. That was a joke.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

He's.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll get to him in a minute. So what prompted you to do that? Do you feel like you had to write a book.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, the opposite. I was writing a book about something else. And as I just described. And so that was the journey. And, you know, look, this book, you know, it's dedicated to my kids so they can continue the story. And the great thing is, you know, you don't have to like it. You don't have to like me. But I finally was able to tell my story and give you my perspective. I stress tested my own assumptions and tried to crack open, go a little bit deeper. And I don't often see that maybe these reviewers do in other political books. And I just. I did it, you know, I didn't do it for the third thing. I didn't do it for the reviews. I didn't do it for the sales. I did it because I wish my parents had done something like this. I didn't know about my mom's relationship to what Jen was introducing a moment ago. The reason she didn't want me to run in so many ways, is shaped by the fact that her marriage ended because my father's ambitions in politics. She never told me. I didn't understand. I always resented her for not wanting me to be in politics, never fully understanding that I didn't understand her own struggles. You know, she. There's a scene in the book where she, as a young girl, is thrown against the fireplace by her father with a gun to her head and her sister's head. My grandfather threatening to kill my mom and her sister. My grandfather eventually committed suicide. He was a prisoner of war. I didn't understand how broken he became after that experience. The march in Corregidor. I didn't understand my grandmother's parents and how they were part of the whole Red Scare. How close my great grandfather was to Oppenheimer and the Bay Area. We found all these old FBI files. And so the reason I wrote it is because it started to reveal itself. It wrote itself rather than do in all of these scrolls.

[Kara Swisher]

Because your last book was more wonky.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

More.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, the last book was a policy book. This is not a policy book. And it's not about me. It's about the people that shaped me. It's about. It's a love letter to my mom. It's a love letter to single moms that are out there struggling every single day with kids. It's, you know, and it's a messy story. It's life. And so I did not write this to sanitize anything. I didn't want to explain anything away. I just, you know, it's just like, let it go. And you know, I hope maybe to the extent. One sec. Just on this, because I think it's important. I hope you've seen in my politics generally this last year, I'm hardly being timid. If you've seen my social media.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, I just, I'm on the other side, honestly. And so the book's a reflection of that, my politics. And it's just, it's for the first time in my life, I'm taking a deep breath.

[Kara Swisher]

So just for people that don't have. You're mentioning this a lot. Your parents were divorced when you were young. Your mom didn't come from money. Your dad was a state judge. He was also close confidant to one of the wealthiest families in the world, the Gettys. And even though you weren't wealthy, grew up around that wealth because of that. Talk about how that shaped your worldview as a kid and moving between these two worlds. One of the things you've long complained about is this Prince Gavin label that you get. You talk about it a lot in the book and I don't know if it reinforces it, but you discuss it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I talk about how I played into it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

I talk about how I reinforced it through my own actions, how complicit I am.

[Kara Swisher]

Talk a little bit about that. Because what you're called in the book, supposedly privileged upbringing. Right. This image.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I'd be doing a disservice to my mom, who had two, three jobs, quite literally almost her entire life up until the end when she was working for me, ironically, in small businesses. I have. And the reason we were a foster family in many respects was just my mom's grit, hard work, just making ends meet. We had people living in the house, strangers. She lived in the living room for a good part of her life. We kind of raised our sort of latchkey kids in the language and vernacular of the past. And it was just, you know, the struggles she had raising us and the lack of support that I felt that I ever provided her. I talk about Hillary being the rock and being the rock star. And I relate that in part of this book. You know, she died about 20 years ago and she died in this respect. Let me describe it. I pick up, get to the office and I get a voice message and it says, hi, honey, it's your mom, and I will be around through next Thursday. That will be the last day of my life. If you're interested, you may want to drop by before then, which is a hell of a voicemail. I did what anyone would do. I immediately called my sister and, like, what's going on? And she read me the riot act, said, you know, what's going on is you're not paying attention. You're just some young man. You're just focused on yourself. You're grinding away, doing your thing. You're not paying attention to your mom. My mom's breast cancer had come back. I'd frankly taken it for granted that, you know, she'll be fine the second time.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure.

[Gavin Newsom]

And so she did an assisted suicide, and it was illegal at the time, which is interesting and, by the way, pretty profound for me. And I've struggled with it all my life. I mean, the family was there together. Everyone said their goodbyes. I had spent a few days with her before she was struggling in deep pain. We had a courageous doctor who was willing to lose his license to support this. And my responsibility was just to give her two pills before the doctor came, just to relax her a little bit before he did the actual cocktail. And she was in there, and she had a book, and she really waited for just Hillary and I to be there as the last people with her. And I want to talk with my sister right here. A little out of school, but it was very intense as the doctor left. And it was a process that unfolded over 5, 10 minutes, and my mother coming in and out of state, talking about our childhood, looking at these photos, and Hillary looked at me, and I looked at her. I said, it's okay. And we were both crying, and she just ran out. And then I was sort of stuck, and I didn't know if I should leave. I didn't know what to do. And I was with her for those last minutes, and. And there was no, you know, the credits didn't roll. It wasn't some wonderful romantic ending. It was deep breaths and struggle. And I remember holding her hand, and then I remember putting my head down on her chest for 10 minutes, just crying and saying things to her that I didn't have the guts to say five minutes before, when she was alive and feeling tremendous shame. And I struggled with that for years and years and years. And it's only through the. Seriously, through the process of writing this, that again, I started to let it go.

[Kara Swisher]

To me, she's the center character in the book.

[Gavin Newsom]

She's the center character, and she's, you know, and that's what Jen described is the grit and the rock, and that's the relationship.

[Kara Swisher]

You call her in the book impenetrable. And you Recall when she told you, quote, it's okay to be average. When you were struggling with dyslexia, too, there was a lot of hard.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, the big part of the book as well, is talking about. Yeah. Something that's familiar. And I met someone in the back and thank you, beautiful young girl who said, thank me for being honest about my learning disability. Cause she's struggling with it as well. And a big part of this book is that relationship to my own academic challenges, my own insecurity that. That marks my own anxiety and the fact that I'm still that guy. You don't over. You know, it doesn't go away. You have to sort of work around it. It's the reason I talk about not reading speeches, because it's not. Cause I don't want to have someone write a speech and then I'll look at the paper and read it. It's that I can't. I could do teleprompters. That's it. And that's not easy. And I can't stand doing them. And so it's. You know, that's the guy in the back. That's the guy with the sweaty hands and, you know, the pounding heartbeat. But it's also the heart of the story with my mom. Because I never appreciated how hard it was to have to raise a kid that was always trying to quit, that literally was running out of schools. I talk a lot about that. Being, faking, being sick, going to school, to school, to school. That's why we ended up in Marin. Cause I bounced around schools in San Francisco. And she couldn't take it anymore. And the relationship that I had with my own kids that were struggling with reading, and it was like a moment. You're like, oh, God. It wasn't just about me. It's about my mom and not to have her back where I can just thank her for all those sacrifices and how hard that was. So I hated her, to your point, when she said it's okay to be average.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And it took 15 years till I sat there with my kids struggling, realized, wait a second, she was just saying it's okay to be you. And in her own exhaustion, it was just like, you don't have to be someone else. And so, again, this notion, just let it go. And this cathartic nature of this whole

[Kara Swisher]

process, of the idea, letting this mask go that you talked about. One of the things now, your mother didn't want you to go into politics. She told you, quote, get out before it's too late. I think it's too late. But your father's dream of course was to be a politician as you mentioned. How did you reconcile these competing dreams your parents had for you because. And you fell into your dad's footsteps in many ways.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I'll never forget the day the recall qualified. I was like mom was right, you know, and there's plenty of those moments. I mean this is, you know, my God. I mean this is. It's been a hell of a run here. And by the way, I can't believe it's taken me this long. All because of one person who's sitting here today, Willie Brown. Willie is literally the reason I'm sitting up here, period, full stop. Would not have happened without him. And you know, we could talk. There's some funny stories I think about getting schooled in a different way by Willie Brown about how politics works. But yeah, no, I've always tried to reconcile this. My mom just wanted me to be happy and she struggled with that all her life. She self medicated and you know I talk about jugs of Safeway wine. She you know, try to go to bed early. Cause she would wake up early and just hard work and hard enough just you know, just raising us on her own again came from no money, no wealth. And my father was distant when we were growing up. And so money was always an issue. It was a stress and it was always stressful for her. To your question earlier, the relationship I had to him which was one of adventure and it was always connected. Yes. To the Getty family. Once a year we would go on these unbelievable vacations and I describe many of them in the book. But I would always go back home to a mom who would open the door and go hi honey, hope you had a wonderful trip. Good night. And would never talk about it again. And so I write about that and that sort of struggle of not being an imposter necessarily but also never feeling comfortable. And I never forget. There's a story in here. When I was was a teenager and we went to Spain and some fancy party King Wong.

[Kara Swisher]

This is the coming out party for the princess.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was one of these just over the top.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I went to that too. But go ahead.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I remember. Yeah, fondly.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

As if in those high heels that you were walking around in. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh God. Another life.

[Gavin Newsom]

There was but I'll never forget with Ann and Gordon, San Francisco, we're in

[Kara Swisher]

Spain keeping portion of the family.

[Gavin Newsom]

But no with their four kids. And I was walking around the four kids and I was sort of the fifth I was same age as Andrew, became a roommate years later. But Andrew and I were walking around and we were there. And I just remember this couple, this very fancy couple going, oh, the Getty boys. It's so wonderful to have you here in Spain. And the whole thing of fabulous Californians and said, which one are you to me? And I went, I'm Gavin Newsom, not one of the voices. And immediately, physically, she sifted and had no interest whatsoever in engaging with me. And it was a moment where you just immediately knew who you were and who you weren't. And again, it's that identity that I talk about a lot because it shapes a lot. Those privileges were absolutely real. Those doors opened that would never have opened without that. But the relationship to that and the relationship to the truth of who I was and where I went back home, and it just is never for me. I struggled to tell that story. And as I say, my mom deserves the truth. And that is part of why I wrote this book as well.

[Kara Swisher]

Though you seemed. Most people think of you that way, seeming very fancy Prince Gavin, Right?

[Gavin Newsom]

And. Yeah, no, I get it. And you put gel in your hair and I talk about that.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You do?

[Kara Swisher]

I finally found out your secret.

[Gavin Newsom]

The blue suits, the whole thing. I mean, you know, look, I'm not naive, you know, I even talk about the way I give speeches, move my hands, you know, using words like.

[Kara Swisher]

Like this.

[Gavin Newsom]

All this stuff. Yeah. And all that mock 24 7. It just is what it is. And so one of the things I, again, maybe it took me 58, whatever, years. I now realize you can't control what you can't control, you know? And all my life, I've been trying to control all this. Control the narrative, control how people think about me. And I've struggled with it. And again, in the process of writing this book, let it go. And I'm serious. I hope everyone here writes their own story, if for no other reason. Just to find Grace the word for me. Grace. There's humility, a lot of humility in this book. But just to find that and let it go.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

We'll be back in a minute. Support for on with Kara Swisher comes from Groons. If you're looking for a health goal that you can actually stick to, you might want to check out Groons. Groons is a simple daily habit that deliver real benefits with minimal effort. Their convenient, comprehensive formula packed into a snack pack of gummies a day. This isn't a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a prebiotic. It's all of those things and then some at a fraction of the price. And bonus, it tastes great. Grunes ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications, while generic multivitamins contain only seven to nine vitamins. Grunes have more than 20 vitamins and minerals and 60 ingredients, which include nutrient dense and whole foods. That includes 6 grams of prebiotic fiber, which is three times the amount of dietary fiber compared to the lean greens powder and more than two cups of broccoli. It's a daily snack pack because you can't fit the amount of nutrients Gruns does into just one Gummy Plus. That makes it a fun treat to look forward to every day. Kick off the new year right and save up to 52% off with the code Cara at Grunes co that's Code Kara K a R A at Grunsgruns co. Support for on with Keras Fisher comes from the 2027 Chevy Bolt. As you all know from listening to me, I love my Chevy Bolt. It's one of my favorite things. I almost like it as much as my kids anyway. That's right, the Chevy Bolt is back and better than ever now with 2.5 times faster charging with DC Public fast charging that goes from 10 to 80% in just 25 minutes. I've been riding around in the Bolt for years and again, I have to say I love it. I don't know why I love it so much. It's just happy cars. Some of you times you have sad cars, happy cars. I've had the cars for a couple of years.

[Kara Swisher]

I've never had a problem with it.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

It's freezing cold here in D.C. right now and nothing happened to my battery. I charge it. I happen to charge at my house. It does take a little longer, but with this new Chevy, Bold, it's much faster. I'm thinking of trading it in. Although I love my Bolt, so it's a very difficult decision. I just think I can't say enough about the Chevy Bolt and the amount of time you've been listening to this show. Your Bolt could have charged and be ready to hit the road. Best of all, 2027 Bolt features upgraded tech, has an 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen. All that and more in Chevy's most affordable ev. It was easy to use before. It's easier to use and easier to charge, and I know some people are worried about that. You shouldn't be. Learn [e-mail] bolt 2.5 times faster charging with 150 kilowatt plus DC fast charging 2027 volt when compared to the 202023 bolt, which is the one I think I have actual charge times will vary. See the owner's manual for details and limitations. Support for the show comes from Square. Small businesses make the world go round. Without them, we'd just be living in a giant strip mall with all the same stores and restaurants. Where's the fun in that? I use Square all the time. I go to a lot of farmers markets in Washington D.C. and also in San Francisco and I think I use square four to six times. I go there because everybody has it. It's easy for the merchants and it's easy for me to just buy using Square and I feel like it's safe and it's simple to run. Square makes it simple to run a small business no matter what it is. Whether it's one brick and mortar, a pop up mobile service or franchises. Square can help track sales, manage inventory and access reports in real time. And Square AI brings your business's data to your fingertips. Just ask a question like what are my top sellers last month? Or which day of the week is the slowest and you'll get instant answers as charts and tables so you can spot trends, get deeper insights and confidently make decisions about how to run your business. With Square, you get all the tools to run your businesses with none of the contracts or complexity. Right now you can get up to 200 off square hardware. At square.com go onwithkara that's s q U-A-R-E.com g o/on with kara k a r A Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today.

[Kara Swisher]

As mayor you are best known for making San Francisco the first city to issue marriages license to same sex couples. I got married during that time here in San Francisco was a great benefit. At the time it was against state and federal law and only about a third of Californians supported it. Now history is on your side here and one of the interesting things I had an encounter with a very well known politician who was saying Gavin's finished. I remember and they said and I'll never forget this said Americans aren't ready for gay marriage. This very well known politician and for some reason I stopped being a reporter and I said it's called leadership. Were like and I was like sorry, it doesn't matter if people are ready. But you know there is. What you did was really forward and there's an uncomfortable peril to Trump in a weird way that his raft of executive orders also defying the law. Talk about it's okay When a leader defies the law, and that's leadership. And when it's not okay, I love the question.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, I see Steve Cava's here and many couples that were part of that winter of love, 4036 couples, 46 states, 6 countries, came here in February to just say two magical words. They weren't even that remarkable. There's magical. I do. And, you know, I talk a lot about that story. Paul Pelosi's here. And how. Paul, I took your seat. When Nancy, Madam speaker was kind enough to invite me. I was a newly minted mayor, went back to meet with congressional delegation, and coincidentally was the same day that President Bush was given his State of the Union. And I was going to leave. We had a reception in the Capitol, and the speaker asked, are you interested in sticking around for the event? I said, I don't have a ticket. She goes, I don't think Paul's going to go. And so I took his ticket, went back up on the rafters and sat there. And I'll never forget after the end of the speech, and you can go back to the speech. It was a reelection speech, and it ended with it. We need a constitutional amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman and people standing ovation, the whole thing. But we're walking back and no one could bring cell phones in. So you're waiting in line for the cell phones. And I'll never forget. True story. As I'm standing there waiting in line, the couple behind me was just talking about the speech and how proud they were of the president. And one of them said, I'm just. And said the words, I'm just so sick and tired of the hom. And it was the way they said homosexual that I literally turned around and I was about to introduce myself as a mayor of San Francisco. I didn't have the guts or courage, and I meekly turned, got my phone, and instead of going back down to see Nancy and the congressional delegation, after speech, I walked in the opposite direction outside of the Capitol. And I'll never forget, the door locked, and I couldn't get back in. And it was a cold night. And I called Steve Cava, who was my chief of staff, and I said, did you hear the speech? He goes, yes, sir. I said, well, we need to do something about it. None of us knew what we were gonna do. Came back, fast forward this a few days later, and we decided that we were gonna marry one couple. Phyllis Lyon at Del Martin. They've been together some 47 years. And we were gonna file a lawsuit, but word got out that we were going to do this, and the federal courts were right across the street, and they said that they were going to get a temporary restraining order. They were going to stop us from moving. And then we realized, I think Daniel Lurie's here as well. It's good to be mayor, Daniel. I realized I was mayor, and I can open City hall up earlier than nine. And so we called Phyllis and Dell and we said, get here at 8, and we got to get this done by 9 o' clock because they're likely to shut us down. And they got married. I wasn't there. I was up in the office, ironically, because I didn't want to make it political. And that's when we had a few other couples that were there. I said, oh, what about us? And, you know, after that, all hell broke loose.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

So.

[Kara Swisher]

So you just.

[Gavin Newsom]

And it was. And I remember I say that with love. You know, Arnold's like, you know, it's chaos. You know, San Francisco. And people were critical. But the most critical part. I want to get specific to your question. It was a great question. I'll get to it. Okay. But some of the people I admire most in political life, the ones that all told me just three weeks prior, the one universal advice, just do what you think is wrong. Right? It goes by in a flash, you know, you're a new mate. Just do what you think is right. Those same folks were some of the most critical. And the party was. You may not recall this. I was hardly favored nation status at the dnc. They were like, you don't really have to go to Boston for the convention. You know, it's all good. You're new mayor. You should really focus on homelessness. And, you know,

[Kara Swisher]

they didn't want you.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You were positive.

[Gavin Newsom]

I went through that process of trying to. To figure out the question you just asked. I was asking myself. I was being condemned by people I admired, people I really revered, including leaders in the LGBTQ community that were like, who the hell is this guy to do this?

[Kara Swisher]

So do you regret it at all, even today?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, because I said in that. And this is what I'm describing in the book, I got into it, and I got frustrated and flustered, and I was at the Balboa County. I'll never forget. It's in the book. And Joe really pushed me. Fierce lawyer, amazing advocate. And he goes. He really pushed me. Tell me why. Why the hell are you doing this? I said, joe, because it's the right thing to do. And I remember saying that. And Joe literally turned around to my Uncle Brennan and my dad said, boys, it's the right thing to do, and he'll be doing it tomorrow morning. And so that's. I was struggling with that, you know, and I started, I was, you know, being condemned, having second doubts and figuring out, you know, yeah, we broke the law, but when the court said stop, we stopped. It wasn't a, you know, speed bump, it was a stop sign. The rule of law applied. And that's what we did. We applied the law. We pushed the envelope. We used not just our formal authority, but our moral authority. That's the frame of my response to your question. And that is one thing Donald Trump is incapable of. He doesn't understand the difference between formal authority and moral authority. And that's the decision.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, thank you for that answer. So I'm going to move on to some other topics. You recently scored a huge win with redistricting California and Democrats. Democrats are picking up five House seats. It might not be enough to overcome Republican gerrymanders. There's a threat of obviously illegal executors to stop or at least slow voting. Talk about what Democrats need to do now to avoid getting shut out of power. Speaking of someone who uses his authority in executive orders.

[Gavin Newsom]

Look, I just, I've been a little critical of my party, and this is not a knock at any individual. The party is many parts, not, you know, and one body, but many parts that we constantly on the receiving end of, you know, crt, dei, esg. We're constantly being shape shift. We're not shifting the conversation. We're on the defense so often. That's why I started showing up on Fox and that's why, you know, I debated Ron DeSantis a few years ago and Sean Hannity both at the same time and, and try just to try to lean in, just to take responsibility again. By the way, it's in the process of writing this book where I was just like, for things to change, I've got to change. And I've got to own up to my own complicity at the moment. My own timidity, my own anxieties, my own insecurities. You know, don't just preach practice. And so it was all shape shifting at the same time. And I started leaning in, I started getting a little bit more aggressive. I came after Dobbs and I was really worried. I was like, what the hell's wrong with. They're part of the surround sound, the propaganda networks, and, you know, just the bullshit, the illusion Rules, not facts of Fox and Newsmax and One American News and the right wing echo chamber and how we were constantly on the defense. And so over the course of the last few years I've been iterating but after that recall, you know, where there was finality talk about humility. I was like this weaponization, I experienced it in a different way. The rnc, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, all these guys trying to take us out. And so it began the process of shifting the fires in la. And this is, let me get to the redistrict. The fires in LA set it back again. You know, I was down there within couple hours and Trump was, I was there with Biden. The President of the United States and the Governor are down there within a few hours of this fire and Trump is just blowing us up, saying it was because we didn't turn on the waters. Faucet from Northern California, the sprinklers weren't working. And you think this, but I started turning on, I'm watching Fox, they're working on the next recall and I'm getting friends saying, why didn't you send the water down? I'm like, you're kidding. Elon Musk is doubling down. I'm like, this is the middle of the fire. And I'm like, holy shit, we are not prepared for this. And that's when our social media began to shift a little. We put a California facts website up, we started to take it to the next level. But it was June of last year when Donald Trump federalized 4,000 National Guard and sent 700 active duty Marines not overseas but to the second largest city in the United States of America that everything shifted. That was the red. And that's when we began the process of drawing a line and said, you know what, we've got to significantly shift our tone of tenor. And I'll just remind you, and I know this is long winded, but I want to remind everybody, Donald Trump called Greg Abbott demanding five seats. He said he was quote unquote entitled the President of the United States said he was entitled to five seats in a mid decade redistricting to rig the 2026 November of this year election because he knows he's going to get crushed, he's going to be shellacked in this election. He knows he's going to lose. So he's trying to rig the election. But what the difference was, and I talked to Nancy Pelosi and Zolofgren and others, I never expected what they were able to achieve. In a five day period which was consensus and few folks expected, they expected us as Democrats maybe to try to win the argument. Maybe we just try to show how right we are and how wrong Trump is and maybe we can get an op ed in the New York Times. And instead we fought fire with fire. We punched a bully back in the map and we put that map back on the ballot and we won and we kicked our ass and Donald Trump lost and the Republican Party lost. And that shows what we're capable of when we fight fire with fire conviction. The problem with the Democratic Party so often is we appear weak and we've got to be stronger and we've got to be more assertive. And so that's, you know, it's the spirit, a little bit of marriage equality. It's the spirit, I think, that is required of this moment.

[Kara Swisher]

The question would be, which I think a lot of people are worried about is becoming too much like them. Right. Every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Hi, I'm Jennifer Welch, co host of I've had it podcast. And the big question I want to ask you is you recently said that Democrats need to be more culturally normal. And Governor, I think that's a very dangerous statement because me, a very mouthy woman in a Bible Belt state, if I were, were culturally normal here, I would have to submit to my husband and I wouldn't be able to have a podcast wherein I could critique every little thing you say. Governor Newsom, do you think this is dangerous language for you to use to an electorate that should be embracing diversity across the board? Diversity should be normal.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I mean, diversity should be normal. I mean, who's been the biggest champion of diversity? No, I get that we've been. Hold on. No, but that. I just don't accept the frame of the question. No, but let me answer the question. I don't accept that frame at all.

[Kara Swisher]

All right.

[Gavin Newsom]

Diversity, that's our greatest strength. We don't tolerate our diversity. We celebrate our diversity. We live in the most diverse state in the world's most diverse democracy. 27% of this state's foreign born. We practice pluralism. That's a point of pride. That's a core value. She should know that when it comes to the issue of forensics, of understanding how we gain power and get back in the majority, not just this year, but get back on our feet and win not just the House, but the Senate and win back the White House, I think it's right to reflect on the past and Distress test it. And there's been a lot of forensics, but not, I think, the kind of autopsy that would ultimately illuminate what are our strengths, what are our weaknesses. So in that context, it's part of that larger discovery. I've talked about this on my podcast on multiple occasions. I have 20. I'm not making this up, 27 pages of my own autopsy on what the hell happened last November in the election. Trying to understand the contours. Was it incumbency? Was it interest rates? Was it inflation scars? Was it 107 days versus 119 days across the spectrum? And so I'm trying to have conversations publicly in that respect. That's what I'm doing on the podcast. That's why I'm inviting people in that I know are uncomfortable, because I'm trying to understand the contours of the other side. So we have ability then to compete. And that goes to why I agree with the frame that set up that question. And that is. No, I get it. You know, we're putting a mirror up to Donald Trump unquestionably. And the day we did that, Trump wasn't complaining about some of those all cap tweets. It was all the folks on Fox that seemed to be so offended. And they were saying, boy, where's his wife? She should wash his mouth out with soap. This is so unbecoming of a governor to talk like this, lacking any situational awareness. They haven't said a damn word about Donald Trump dressing up as the Pope or Superman or putting his face on Mount Rushmore. They didn't say a damn word. They've countenanced that forever. So I understand that instinct. And part of me at first was like, do we really want to do this? But we need to do it. We need to put that mirror up to Trump and Trumpism. And it's not because none of this is normal. And my whole point is this. We will lose our country. We will lose our Republicans. This guy is not screwing around. It wasn't just the federalization of the National Guard, which we said in June, was a preview of things to come. And you saw that in D.C. you saw that in Chicago. You've seen it in Minnesota. We said it when we kicked off the campaign for Prop 50, you may recall, at the Democracy center. And there was a guy out there with dozen masked men trying to intimidate people from walking in the event by the name of Greg Bovino, dressed up as if he just got off the set of a 1930s movie. If you catch My drift. And we said he is a preview of things to come. And that's exactly what's happened. You've seen Ravino all across the country. You saw him on election day. The BORTAC teams right there in front of the Dodger Stadium trying to intimidate our diverse communities on election Day. These guys are not screwing around. I was just in Fulton County. Let me finish, because this is important.

[Kara Swisher]

I want you to answer because it's important.

[Gavin Newsom]

This. He wake up. He's in Fulton County. We met with the head of their elections commission trying to take over the election in Fulton County, a critical county in this state. He's trying to federalize the voting. Fifteen states minimum. He said, at least the SAVE Act. That's not about voter id. It's about who can vote. It's about voter registration. This guy is not screwing around the most corrupt president in American history. And we will lose our country if we don't fight back and push back. So, yes, I cringe sometimes at my social media as well, but I think it's important in this environment that we call out the bullshit that we're seeing 24 7.

[Kara Swisher]

But you were talking about. I think she was addressing Democrats, how they. I don't. When you said culturally normal, I didn't know what that meant.

[Gavin Newsom]

And you know what? For me, I was stuck on some of the issues within the prisons, and those are hard to explain. Culturally normal doesn't mean right or wrong. It means how people feel about certain issues that sometimes are difficult issues to explain. And, you know, respectfully, there are some difficult issues.

[Kara Swisher]

There are.

[Gavin Newsom]

That are difficult to explain. And in terms of winning elections, how we navigate that's important. And let's go back to marriage equality. It's in the book. There are a number of elected officials that blame me for the outcome of the election that November. So I don't think it's an unfair thing to talk about how we win elections in a sensitivity on the basis of my own relationship, certainly. But in understanding the relationship to how we look at the larger map in this country.

[Kara Swisher]

Although some might say that's putting on a mask that you're not really, you know, you talk about masks.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm not suggesting you don't speak your truth.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm not suggesting any of that. What you emphasize, what you disproportionately focus on and how you navigate a world where they're, again, trying to shapeshift and we are on the defense again. That's why I went on the offense as it relates to the banning Bridge and the cultural purge that the right wing is doing. And that's why we are iterating in that respect.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

We'll be back in a minute. Hey, Kara Swisher here. I want to let you know that Vox Media is returning to south by Southwest in Austin for live tapings of your favorite podcast. Join us from March 13th through the 15th for live tapings of Today Explained, Teffy Talks, Prof. G Markets and of course your two favorite podcasts, Pivot and On with Kara Swisher. The stage will also feature sessions from Brene Brown and Adam Grant, Marques Brownlee, Keith Lee, Vivian Tu and Robin Arzon. It's all part of the Vox Media Podcast stage at SXSW presented by Odin. Visit voxmedia.comsxsw to pre register and get your special discount on your innovation badge. That's voxmedia.comsxsw to register.

[Kara Swisher]

Really, you should register.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

We sell out and we hope to see you there.

[Gavin Newsom]

What are the main takeaways of the foreign policy section from Donald Trump's State of the Union address? I do think they've made a decision to elevate domestic issues. As we head towards the midterm, we'll see if that sticks because he keeps getting drawn back to the foreign policy issues. I'm John Finer. And I'm Jake Sullivan and we're the hosts of the Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week we'll react to President Trump's State of the Union address, the situation with Iran, and the eruption of violence involving cartels in Mexico. The episode's out now. Search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tori Dunlop]

This week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm joined by her first 100K, aka Tori Dunlop, a fellow personal financ creator who's changing how an entire generation thinks about money. Tori's journey is a masterclass in turning personal finance wins into a platform that empowers millions. She opens up about the real strategy behind hitting that six figure milestone without the typical privileged blind advice, and how she's redefining what it means to be a wealthy woman in 2026. We're diving deep into investment strategies for real people with real budgets and why financial feminism isn't just a buzzword, it's a movement. Get ready for an unfiltered conversation about money, entrepreneurship, and what it really takes to build both personal wealth and a business empire. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF let's go through

[Kara Swisher]

some issues you have less than a year in office. One of the most high profile fights you're in right now is over a proposed one time tax for billionaires. A big labor union is trying to get the measure on the upcoming ballot. You've said you're going to fight it. This is one of these issues defining Democrats. The time when voters are worried about affordability. Talk a little bit about that. That fight's an interesting fight because it also dovetails into the idea of the entire tech industry losing its fucking mind and shifting hard to the right. Should you try to woo back these people? Is that what's happening? Like Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Andreessen and Jeff Bezos? Or do speaking of standing up, do voters want a leader that stands up to this may not be the way the billionaire tax may not be the method. There's two things.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes, four issues. Okay, there I'm doubling. I mean, I think there are four issues. I mean we can get into. You know, what's, what's going on with those three individuals you represent. We could talk about what's going on with tech more broadly. Well, we need some psychologists losing their mind. We could talk about taxation, which I did at extensively in my state of the state a few weeks ago. I promoted, I wasn't defending. I actually made the case for California's progressive tax system. And I'll remind folks, 16 states tax their poorest residents more than California taxes its richest. Who's the high tax state? You look at the most regressive taxes in America. That's Texas, that's Florida. Who are the high tax states? Yes, we have a progressive tax policy and that means we disproportionately rely on a few taxpayers relative to the overall population. And that has benefited us greatly. It's why we have universal preschool. That's why we have universal health care regardless of preexisting conditions, ability to pay. That's why we've been able to do 379, almost 380,000 childcare slots and subsidies. That's why we've been able to do a lot of the things we're doing as it relates to this specific tax. Do we need to have a tax policy in this country and go back to the old tax rates and consider a new tax rates for the ultra wealthy? Absolutely. And I've been advocating for that and I believe that. But at a state basis. The challenge is ability people to move. And you've seen that it's not anecdotal. Now the number of people who have moved out of the state and how easy that is. So I'm concerned about that on the basis of the volatility of our taxes and how that can impact the progressivity of our taxes and impact our existing tax structure in a deleterious way. Final thing on that, that tax doesn't go to teachers. It doesn't support firefighters. That tax doesn't go to childcare workers. That tax doesn't allow us to do. That tax is for one particular purpose, one time, and doesn't benefit. So there's also issues I have with

[Kara Swisher]

the details, with the way it is deployed. So if you are, or say president, you might do a tech.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's a very different conversation. Different conversation, but at a state level. Yeah. You have to recognize and reconcile that reality. And it's a real reality. It just is, as is the reality that many, but not all, we haven't had this conversation. And I should be asking you, I don't know that tech has moved to the right. I think a few loudmouths have.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Gavin Newsom]

You look at the vast majority of folks that work in these companies, they're still voting from my perspective, in an enlightened way. And a lot of those folks that have moved to the right were kind of dabbling in that space already. And I just. I think that's a component part of this. That said, man. And you know, I was quoting Plutarch the other day. Not in doubt. Plutarch, Plutarch. But he was a historian, which is fascinating. About 50 AD, he was warning the Athenians that the imbalance between the rich and the poor is the oldest and most fatal ailments of all republics 2000 years ago, warning about this imbalance. I mean, we're talking about the first trillionaire this country, 10% of folks own 2/3 of all the wealth in this country. This is not sustainable. We have got to democratize our economy so we can save democracy. And so there is fundamental restructuring of our economy that is. That needs to take shape. And that's among the debates. And the last time we did spitwall. And that's gonna be part of the debate moving forward as it relates to stabilizing the volatility in our tax structure as well. But that's, I think, a legit critique as it relates to how these guys, to your point, have reacted to this tax that conflates other aspects of it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they're very hurt. Too bad. I always say, they're so poor, all they have is money. So let's. Speaking of which, because that would be a federal thing, this is your last year as governor. I'm just a few more.

[Gavin Newsom]

You said that three damn times. It's so depressing.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, let's not do the exhausting coy thing.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, but it's three times.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. I think everyone assumes you're running for president, so. And you're well practiced. You're well practiced in dodging the William. I hate that question. Anyway, you did say one of your sons told you recently that he doesn't want you to run. What would compel you to run in spite of the request from your son?

[Gavin Newsom]

Nice. Well done. Well done.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you. That's why I'm paid the big bucks.

[Gavin Newsom]

Montana's here. Sorry, Montana. I'll lay you out a little bit. My oldest, who's 16 and she's got. She says this, I think it was. I haven't seen it, but she told me and it may not be true. She says, I have a calendar, dad, counting down the days till you're no longer governor.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Wow.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I think she's calling it her version of liberation day. So she, you know, 16 year old, if you get my drift. So she can finally be free. And so I've got that.

[Kara Swisher]

She's almost 17.

[Gavin Newsom]

She's almost. As she told us today. Yeah, she did later in the calendar year, but she'll always be sweet sixteen to me. And then my fourteen year old boy, though, he saw some headline that misrepresented a little bit of the facts where it said newsome poised to run for, you know, whatever. And he goes, texted me. He texted me and he goes, dad, I hear you running. Are you running for. I said, no, I'm not. He goes, I would never. And I literally texted, I said, I would never do that without you. He goes, good. And he says, 14 year old boy. And he goes, good, dad, because we're too young and you need to spend more time with us. And I literally. No bs Screenshot of that. I have that. And my wife reminds me me of that all the time. And. And so does this book. Because, you know, I. Jen, she never said it, but she had to think it. What. What kind of husband are you going to be? What kind of father are you going to be? She's got a rock star dad. We just celebrated his 85th birthday last night. Four extraordinary daughters. He's the man of us. You. You want. I mean, like Central Castle, mom and dad coached the girls teams, basically retired relatively young age to be there for his daughters. And now he's there like he was with his daughters for our grant for my kids, his grandkids. An extraordinary person, and that shaped her consciousness of life. And here I am talking about my dad and my mom and my relationship with my dad when I was young, which is again, very distant as a father. And I can only imagine what was going through her head when we first had our kids. And so in every way, she mentioned Mimi Silbert, who's, you know, one of my heroes and saved my life in so many ways, and how she really cracked me open. And I don't want to make those mistakes and I'm not going to make those mistakes. So you ask a direct question, they all have veto power. And if any one of them him say no chance, I won't even give it a second thought. I'm not going to screw up my marriage to this rock star woman, this extraordinary person, my wife, and I'm not going to screw up my time with my kids, period, full stop.

[Kara Swisher]

That's actually a very good answer. So I'm going to go through. We've only a few minutes. We want to go through some new stuff because there's a lot going on.

[Gavin Newsom]

This is the boxer and brief one.

[Kara Swisher]

These are a couple of news stories and they have to do with California, too. On Friday, Trump ordered the government to stop using Anthropic's AI models called. He called Anthropic the, quote, radical left AI company because it wanted to prevent the Pentagon from using the products for domestic surveillance or powering autonomous weapons without human involvement. A few hours later, OpenAI announced a deal with Pentagon with. I'm not sure it has similar guardrails. I'll question that. Talk about that. We're seeing pushback here from tech, as you noted. You just said they're not, as I

[Gavin Newsom]

can tell you, through the prism of my subjectivity, Dario has been a real leader. He's the CEO, the CEO of Anthropic. And so it does not surprise me because he's a person of character. He helped shape the nation's first AI frontier model, large language model regulations in the state of California, which I was proud to be part of. And he was a fierce advocate for going further and constantly pushing us to do more, to address the peril, not just the promise of AI. And so he had a red line and the courage to hold that line in a way that so few CEOs do. That's why I have a Patriot site with knee pads to give to our universities and law firms and media and CEOs that are selling out to Donald Trump and Anthropic. Did not. And he deserves our praise and he deserves our support.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, next one. We're taping this. We're taping this. On Saturday night, about 24 hours ago, President Trump joined Israel in attacking Iran. The New York Times editorial board wrote that Trump's decision is reckless and ill defined. On X, you linked to one of Trump's old tweets where he criticized Obama for striking Libya because a bad poll number. But you also wrote that Iranian leadership needs to go. Apparently the ayatollah has been killed. There'll be another ayatollah, by the way. Are you worried about this move and what do you think it stems from?

[Gavin Newsom]

I think we all. Well, it stems from weakness masquerading his strength. It stems from his complete failure of this administration, this historic president who's historically unpopular, that is trying to distract from his failures across the spectrum. He doubled down on stupid during the State of the Union. No course correction at all. And you're absolutely right. In 2011, he didn't just say it once. He did videos condemning, criticizing President Obama, suggesting somehow he was going to do this and it was a desperate attempt for his reelection. But you had Tulsi Gabbard out there saying regime change is wrong. You had J.D. van they lied to you. He lied to you. So reckless is the only way to describe this. He didn't describe to the American people what the end game is here. He didn't describe the existential threat of the moment, the immediacy of the crisis at hand. There wasn't one. He manufactured it. And now we're manufacturing a crisis of outcomes unknown and the uncertainty it marks at this moment. And that's Donald Trump, the chaos president, this wrecking ball president across the board. Destruction is not strength. And once again, we've seen him destroy not only our allies in relationship to the rest of the world, but we're seeing him destroy any capacity to explain fundamentally what the core American interest is at this moment, to declare war, to go to war with the regime. And all of this is playing out in real time. And we just pray for our troops, we pray for our allies, and we pray that Donald Trump is temporary and his time is up in just three years.

[Kara Swisher]

So are you worried that it's linked to the midterms? Obviously, that has come up. He is an executive order ready to do all manner of nonsense around the midterm elections. And elections.

[Gavin Newsom]

It goes to what I just described. Again, this guy is not screwing around. What more evidence do you need? He tried to wreck this country and light Democracy on fire. On January 6, he called that same Fulton county folks look in Secretary of state for 11, 12,000 votes, he tried to rig the midterm elections as it relates to redistricting. And he's going about with these masked men and these BORTAC teams. And these are acts of authoritarianism. He's not hiding it, nor is he hiding his disdain for any kind of independent thinking. What is his attack? All these institutions have one in common. His attack is on independent thinking. And you're seeing my biggest concern now is what's happening with media and this concentration in the hands of just a few folks. He's deciding the prime time lineup, these places, the impact, by the way, of this deal in California will be outsized in terms of layoffs and creativity. Yeah, yeah. So this is, this is all happening in real time. Forgive me again, you know, back to washing my mouth, you know, with so much soap. That's why we have to be more aggressive. That's why we have to be more vigilant. That's why we have to be stronger and much more aggressive in this moment.

[Kara Swisher]

So, last two questions. I will note that Epic Fury has the same initials as Epstein files. What a coincidence. The fallout. It keeps ballooning, though. And the number of high profile resignations and the way of their release. We learned this week the files didn't include some records related to very heinous allegations unproven against Donald Trump. This is an issue I thought had real legs. Scott and I argued about it many months ago. I thought it was critically important, this issue. How do you look at what's unfolding in with the Epstein files? And many people think the attack was related to getting.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, there's got to be something. I mean, give me a break. No one's worked so hard at making this go away than Pam Bondi on behalf of Donald Trump and the FBI. And by the way, that same DOJ, he's demanding $230 million of money. The IRS, he's demanding $10 billion. Please. I hope you saw that he's demanding a settlement of $10 billion. Says he's going to negotiate with himself. And he may, because he, you know, he's a man of character, may give it to charity. This is the guy that got not just a $400 million plane because he called Qatar, said, I want $400 million plane, but got close to a billion dollars to retrofit the plane. The Trump story is a story of corruption. It's a corruption story. The Witkoff family, the Trump family, World Financial Literacy. The tariffs are a corruption story. Why do you think he was weeping around the loss of the tariff? Because that was about his personal portfolio as much or more than anything else. So you ask about the Epstein file. It's all in that same place and shape. I was with Jon Ossoff the other day down in Georgia, and I love what he played. This notion of the Epstein class, it's all shaped in that all of these trips overseas, you know, they have one thing in common. The family goes out first to get the deal done. The UAE get the $2 billion for the crypto. In return, you get high valued computer chips. Same thing that happened on the tariffs. 26% reduction as it relates to Vietnam. They got the golf course, the Trump family fast track. A billion and a half dollars all happening in open sight. But there's clearly things in the Epstein files that Donald Trump doesn't want you to know. And my biggest fear on this, said it the other day, I really fear this and I hope this is not the case. And that's why it's absolutely critical that the gavel is in the hands of Speaker Jeffries this November. It is foundational. But even with that, there's a scenario where I can see Trump starting to pardon key members of his administration. There's scenarios where that, where these, it's not about redaction. These things are deleted and disappear. That's how critical this moment is, of vigilance. That's why I'm very proud of, you know, so many of these Californian leaders in Congress and Robert Garcia being a leader, a particular leader in this space that have been very aggressive. And again, it's just about maintaining vigilant and not, you know, in the spirit of the wag of the dog, not continue to take our eye. We cannot take our eye off the ball. We can't allow this to be normalized. We can't allow, don't ever, please don't use the. This is just Trump being Trump. Those are deadly words. That's what he wants. It's the shock and awe. He wants to, he wants to break us down. He wants to exhaust us. And that's why this is not easy. And I know our time's up, but I just want to say thank you to all of you, not just for being here tonight, not just being here in relationship to this book and for yourselves, but for each other. Thank you for showing up. San Francisco always shows up. No kings rallies. This is the spirit of this city. And thank you for not giving into the cynicism and all the anxiety and fear out there. And it's hard. I know it's hard. It's exhausting. This is exhausting.

[Kara Swisher]

So my last question then, what is your best case scenario and what is the one that worries you? You told Emma now and in some ways, J.D. vance scares you more than Trump in a lot of ways, obviously.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I think time alike, I will

[Kara Swisher]

say, what's your best case scenario? What's your worst case scenario? Start with worst because then we end on a high note. You get that?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I, I, look, I, I painted a picture and I said this before. I mean, you know, we're celebrating the 250th anniversary of the Founding Fathers, the best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy, co equal branches of government. Something that Trump had to deal with with the Supreme Court decision the other day had to reconcile that the rule of law, not the rule of dawn. And, and if it's not dawning on all of us, what we're up against in the existential nature, that will reflect the worst case scenario that we lose grip with the insidiousness of this moment and how vicious these guys are on the other side and how complicit Murdoch Inc. Is at this moment in the primetime lineup at Fox and Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham and all the rest. And by the way, Laura Ingraham, who's in business with Donald Trump Jr. And Chamath, whose partner on his podcast is David Sacks, you want corruption and open sight, connecting the dots to our media, the whole thing. If we don't call this out, that's the worst case because we won't celebrate the best, this historic project of our Founding fathers in the 251st anniversary. We can lose this country, we can lose our republic. The best case scenario is you keep showing you don't give in to the cynicism, that fear and anxiety because you recognize you have agency, you can shape the future. You're the antidote to that. And so that's the power. It's, you know, Brandeis said it, in a democracy, the most important office is not governor or president, it's office of citizen active, not inert citizenship. So maintain that vigilant, maintain that energy and that daring and keep showing up. And if we do that, Donald Trump's presidency as we know it will end this November. It will end as we know it this November.

[Kara Swisher]

So then, very last question, what's the name of the sequel to this Old man in a Walker?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I'm getting there, I'm getting there.

[Kara Swisher]

What is the sequel that happens. What does this mean?

[Gavin Newsom]

I don't know what the sequel is. But I will say this and let me end on this because I appreciate, I appreciate here talking about the book and thank you. I hope some of you read it. Don't just read the, you know, some of you are just gonna look in the index to see if your name appears. And I get that. By the way, I've written some personal notes in the index to say gotcha. Found you. But I hope people will see aspects of their own lives and their own journey in here. And I hope people will see, you know, there may not be a sequel. And I get that to the point is I don't you talk about my sell by date. You know, I'm serious. That little anxiety inducing for me. Cause I've always been that young man in a hurry. I, you know, been in this process, you know, since Willie Brown appointed me in the parking and traffic commission. You know, I was like, you know, what's this guy doing next? The whole thing. And so if there's nothing next, I'm just, you know, I was finally able to put my version of events out there. I was able to tell my mom how much I loved her, even if she's not around. But I was able to say that and I was able to describe that. I was able to reflect on my own journey, my own relationship with my wife and my kids and how important they are to me and how important all of you have been to me and how important this city has been to me and how it's shaped me and, and I'll close on this. My dad starts in the book, he says he didn't know what came first, the Irish cop or San Francisco. And it was a way of connecting my history to this city with his great grandfather who was that Irish cop, my kids, sixth generation San Franciscans. And how special and proud I am of this city and how proud I am to have been born in this city and how lucky we all are to be in this precious and beautiful place at this remarkable time in American history. Thank you guys, all of you, very, very much for being here today.

[Kara Swisher]

Gavin, thank you for joining us. I'm sorry about my voice, but you. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Great to be with you. Thank you all. Thanks so much for coming.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Today's show was produced by Christian Castor Ricell, Michelle Aloy, Kathryn Millsop, Megan Burney and Kalyn Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Eric Litke and Madeline laplante Duby. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan and our theme music is by Trackademics. Go Wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.