Jennifer Welch of “I’ve Had It” Blasts Both MAGA & Centrist Dems

Summary

Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher – Jennifer Welch of “I’ve Had It” Blasts Both MAGA & Centrist Dems

Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Jennifer Welch
Date: November 24, 2025
Podcast Network: Vox Media/New York Magazine

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Overview

In this lively and candid episode, Kara Swisher interviews Jennifer Welch, co-host of the explosively popular progressive podcast “I’ve Had It.” Known for her blunt, irreverent style and sharp critiques of both MAGA Republicans and centrist Democrats, Welch discusses the current state of American politics after the surprising aftermath of the 2024 election, the rise of new progressive media voices, and the cultural divides within and outside party lines. The episode features in-depth discussion about Zoran Mamdani's explosive ascendancy, the chaos among Republican ranks (especially Marjorie Taylor Greene), media strategy missteps by Democrats, Welch's personal background in red-state Oklahoma, and her unique brand of political commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reaction to Major Political News

• Opening Reactions: The episode kicks off with Welch’s take on recent political whiplash — NYC Mayor-Elect Zoran Mamdani’s unexpected Oval Office meeting with Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene’s sudden resignation from Congress.
• The Power of Winners: Welch attributes Trump’s gravitation towards Mamdani to his political instincts for associating with “winners” and boosting his own image through their popularity.
  • Quote [05:18]:
    “Trump has always been a disruptor first and foremost... He was able to see the political optics of a man who consistently beat the establishment, consistently beat the millionaire and billionaire class. And his political instincts to ride those coattails were sharper than Chuckles and Hakeems.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 05:18)
• Nickname Guide: Listeners are briefed on Welch's creative nicknaming system — Trump is “Kankles McTaco Tits” (“Kanks”), J.D. Vance is “Little Smokey” (“failed drag queen, smokey-eyed sociopath”), and Mike Johnson is “Moses Mike Grinder Johnson.”

2. Inside the Zoran Mamdani–Trump Meeting

• Optics & Strategy: Both Swisher and Welch agree Mamdani “got the psychological file” on Trump, saying the meeting was heavy on mutual flattery and political theater.
  • Quote [06:42]:
    “I think that Zoran Mamdani got the psychological file on Kanks, and it is: go in and flatter him... He has megawatt charisma, personality. It's intoxicating. And his decency and his goodness radiates off of him. I mean, a once in a generation type candidate.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 06:42)
• Political Aftershocks: The duo reflects on the scene’s effect — establishment Dems “missed the moment,” while Trump leveraged Mamdani’s “winner glow” to pivot attention away from scandals.

3. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Resignation & Republican Turmoil

• Greene’s Motivation: Welch draws parallels between Greene and Sarah Palin, suggesting both rode the populist wave, burned bright, then retreated for personal gain or safety.
  • Quote [10:56]: “My first initial thought was it reminded me totally of Sarah Palin... It’s interesting. I think the lesson that the Democrats, messaging wise, can take from this is the left has hated Marjorie Taylor Greene ever since she started running... And she's never been scared for her life until... Right started bullying her.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 10:56)
• Republican Rebranding: Welch predicts Greene is readying for a presidential run, guided by Steve Bannon and populist strategy. She argues that Greene is now “offering an off-ramp to Republicans betrayed by Trump, but packages it with ‘nicer’ bigotry.”

4. Dysfunction of Centrist Democrats

• Democrat Messaging Fails: Both host and guest detail frustration with establishment Dems’ robotic messaging and failure to embrace new digital platforms and authentic, unscripted dialogue.
  • Quote [27:40]:
    “Democrats... have the appearance right now of being a conservative party because they are pres. Tactics that they've used forever. Focus groups, disciplined messaging, word salad platitudes... They're not evolutionary in following the changing media landscape.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 27:40)
• Cory Booker Example: Welch recounts Booker “face-planting” on her podcast when dodging questions on Israel, illustrating how easily politicians get exposed on independent media.

5. Welch's Background: Blue Dot in the Red State

• Personal Political Isolation: Growing up a liberal atheist in Oklahoma, Welch shares stories about resisting evangelical Christian culture, being the “skunk at the garden party,” and navigating friendships across deep divides, including with her co-host Angie Sullivan.
  • Quote [36:44]:
    “...when you live in the Bible belt and your peers are evangelical Christians, their number one goal... is to recruit you. It is to proselyte.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 36:44)

6. Evolution of "I've Had It" Podcast

• From Shit-Talking to Political Force: Welch describes how the podcast started as irreverent banter on everyday annoyances, then evolved into a major political force — now attracting millions, earning praise as “the most radical progressive podcast in North America” (Hasan Piker), and hosting key Democratic figures.
• Impact in Oklahoma: Although a political lightning rod online, Welch says her real-life Oklahoma experience remained surprisingly normal, even as her fame grew, with quiet support even among presumed conservatives.
  • Quote [52:41]:
    “A lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of men that really surprised me, that I thought for sure were Republicans, come up and they whisper, keep doing what you're doing. I love every bit of it.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 52:41)

7. On Media, Messaging, and Democratic Strategy

• Failures of Democratic Media Strategy: Welch laments Dems’ addiction to scripted talking points and corporate media, urging them to embrace authenticity, podcasts, and unpredictability. She argues that losing focus groups and corporate PAC money will help unlock genuine connection with voters.
• Advice For 2026 and Beyond: Welch insists on a 50-state strategy and aggressive outreach in red states, using values-based, populist messaging and calling out Republican “grift.”
  • Quote [87:23]:
    “If I could sit down with the chair of the DNC, I would say you have to start a 50 state strategy immediately. Even if you lose several cycles, it will make an impact...”
    (Jennifer Welch, 87:23)

8. Picking on Both Sides: Nicknames, Vitriol, and Tone

• Welch's Nicknames: She defends her blunt, mocking tone, arguing it’s both authentic and necessary, and that Democrats shouldn’t try to “catch flies with honey” but rather energize their own base.
  • Quote [57:23]:
    “I know these women. And this is the Democrats’ fool’s errand that they think they can get these people to change their votes instead of investing in their base... And if you're ever going to get these people to like you, it is going to be by being authentic and getting on offense...”
    (Jennifer Welch, 57:23)
• Against Centrist Compromise: Centrist “pick me” Democrats, she argues, are “milquetoast” and lose by trying to be less offensive than MAGA, rather than inspiring with bold progressive stances.

9. Religion and Deconstruction

• From Evangelicalism to Atheism: Welch details both her mother’s and co-host’s journey away from evangelical belief, describing the emotional difficulty and community loss that comes with religious deconstruction in the Bible Belt.
  • Quote [44:40]:
    “She called me about three years ago... and she said, after my dad died, I just don't think that he's in heaven... I don't believe in heaven. And she started crying because of the grief associated with that. And I just comforted her...”
    (Jennifer Welch, 44:40)

10. The Big Democratic Crossroads: Israel, Abortion, Culture Wars

• On Israel and AIPAC: Welch demands moral clarity and directness, separating support for Jewish people from support for the Israeli government, and calling out emotional blackmail tactics.
  • Quote [81:49]:
    “A Democratic politician should very clearly say we support Jewish people and we stand against all forms of bigotry, period. However, when it comes to the Israeli government, that should not be attached to Jewish people in the same way... That is emotional blackmail.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 81:49)
• Abortion & Trans Rights: She rails against party figures who bargain away abortion and trans rights, especially when they don’t understand life in red states.
  • Quote [86:28]:
    “When I hear liberals that have never lived in a red state try to focus group and workshop how to deal with red states and part of that plan is to throw trans people under the bus or to throw women under the bus, it really pisses me off.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 86:28)

11. Fox News, Tucker Carlson & the MAGA Movement's Next Phase

• On Greene and Tucker 2028: Welch is clear-eyed about MAGA’s adaptability: Greene and Tucker “learned from Trump’s playbook,” blend populism with rebranding, and can’t be underestimated.
  • Quote [71:49]:
    “She is coming out of the gates attacking fellow Republicans... Steve Bannon advised Trump back in the day and now he's advising Marjorie Taylor Greene... She's doing an America first messaging... and Democrats need to start muddying up any heir apparent of the MAGA movement.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 71:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Welch on meeting Trump:
  • “I’d be like, are you fucking kidding me, you fat ass? You’re calling me piggy? You obese motherfucker with your swollen ankles…”
    (Jennifer Welch, 79:33)
• Welch on “pick me” Democrats:
  • “They’re just milquetoast... We need to have politicians that we agree with. And let’s take the example of Zoran Mamdani. He’s probably further left than a lot of mainstream Democrats... but we will throw nobody under the bus.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 60:46)
• Welch on strategy:
  • “We have to stop integrity politics and stop assumption politics, and we have to fight these people with everything in us and quit trying to set some moral high ground that no longer exists in this moment.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 78:12)
• On living in Oklahoma as a liberal:
  • “I was always the skunk at the garden party in the Bible Belt.”
    (Jennifer Welch, 35:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening, Welch’s Blunt Style – 00:00-04:19
• Trump & Mamdani Meeting Analysis – 05:18-10:31
• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Resignation – 10:56-15:22
• GOP infighting, “Little Smokey” Vance – 16:06-21:43
• Democrats’ Next Steps – 22:25-24:06
• The Power of Podcasts & Independent Media – 27:27-32:01
• Cringe Politician Social Media – 32:01-34:33
• Welch’s Oklahoma Upbringing – 35:01-46:00
• Converting a Conservative Friend – 41:54-46:00
• Podcast Evolution & Community – 51:06-54:44
• Welch’s Nicknames & Tone – 56:19-59:33
• Pushing Back on Centrist Dems – 60:46-64:14
• Religion, Faith, & Red State Politics – 63:51-65:27
• Reacting to Trump’s Dehumanizing Rhetoric – 67:57-71:49
• Marjorie Taylor Greene/Tucker Carlson’s Next Moves – 71:49-74:32
• AIPAC, Abortion, and Dem Party Direction – 81:49-87:00
• 50-State Strategy for Democrats – 87:23-89:02
• New York “Would You Rather” Game – 90:17-92:46

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Tone and Style

The episode is unsparingly candid, honest, peppered with humor, cursing, inventive nicknames, and a sense of camaraderie between Welch and Swisher. Welch embodies the “say it like it is” ethos she advocates, regularly challenging both political enemies and allies, and making clear her belief in unapologetic, values-first progressive politics.

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For Those Who Haven't Listened

This episode offers a whirlwind tour through the fractured landscape of American politics post-2024, pulling no punches on Trumpworld nor on the Democratic establishment. Welch’s story is as much about personal resilience as political strategy, underlining the importance of authenticity, boldness, and connection—both in media and in organizing for change.

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Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

I really enjoyed your book. I read it last night.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, good.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it your running for office book?

[Jennifer Welch]

No, I would never. I'd rather earn my money on my back. Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. This is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara swisher. If the 2024 presidential election was the year podcast dominated leg media, then it's easy to see why President Trump came out ahead. While Vice President Kamala Harris primarily sought out CNN town halls and sit downs with the View, Trump was courting the manosphere in interviews with Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn. Since Harris's defeat, Democrats have been searching for their own Rogans and Vaughns. And one of the top contenders has emerged from an unlikely place. Bright red Oklahoma. I'm talking about the podcast. I've had it. It's co hosted by Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan, two white women in their 50s from the suburbs of Okl City. They've interviewed the biggest names in Democratic politics like Harris, former President Barack Obama, New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and New York City Mayor elect Zoran Mamdani. Welch in particular has gone viral for her combative interviews with New Jersey Democratic Senator Cory Booker and former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel. Jennifer Welch is my guest today. I'm excited to talk to her because she's just really a fresh voice and is a tell it like it is kind of lady, and that's who I am. Um, I think what really sets her apart is she's very genuine. She doesn't seem calculated. It's the person she is. I suspect she's the same in in person as she is on the podcast and that works really well. And people really seem to be enjoying what she and Angie are doing. All right, let's get into my interview with Jennifer Welch. Our expert question comes from her dream interview, CNN anchor Anderson Cooper. Jennifer is spicy and she's also much more serious than you think, so don't go. Any.

[Jennifer Welch]

Foreign.

[Kara Swisher]

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[Jennifer Welch]

We.

[Kara Swisher]

Taped our original interview with Jennifer on Friday morning before the love fest between New York City Mayor Elect Zoran Mamdani and President Trump in the Oval Office and before Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene unleashed a hate vest at Donald Trump in announcing her decision resign from Congress in January. So we had to invite Jennifer back to get her reaction to both the meeting and the resignation. And we're going to start there before we bring you into the rest of the interview. And heads up. She has some creative nicknames so when you hear her say Kanks, she's referring to Donald Trump with the nickname Kankles McTaw Tits. And for J.D. vance, the Vice president, Little Smokey is short for failed drag queen, Smokey eyed sociopath. So Jennifer, I don't know what to say. I'd like your first reaction.

[Jennifer Welch]

My first reaction is that Trump has always been a disruptor first and foremost and the Republican midterm strategy was Zoran Mamdani is a terrorist jihadist and he's going to be the face of The Democratic Party. Right. And secondly, Trump likes winners. He likes people that win. And he was able to see the political optics of a man who consistently beat the establishment, consistently beat the millionaire and billionaire class. And his political instincts to ride those coattails were sharper than Chuckles and Hakeems.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, right. And why. Why do you. What did he decide that in the moment or. Because, you know, before he was caught, they were calling him communists or on Mandani, I think Mandani. You know, it's interesting because the progressives are sort of attacking Mamdani a little bit. Like, oh, he went in and talked to him. I'm like, are you kidding? He just saved health care. He just saved New York. He just, like, I thought he was respectful, which I think is appropriate. This is the President of the United States, whether you like him or not. And secondly, he pushed back, and then Trump pushed back on his behalf. That was sort of mind blowing. Like, oh, it's okay, just call me a fascist. You know, it was. It was. I don't want to get too giddy because I'm also like, this guy in three weeks could be invading New York. Right?

[Jennifer Welch]

100% right. I think that Zoran Mamdani got the psychological file on Kanks, and it is go in and flatter him. And I bet that Zoran went in and said, we have a lot of things in common. There are people that wore shirts that said MAGA for Mamdani. People that voted for you, voted for me. We both love New York. We're both from Queens. And you helped build New York to what it is. And I want to make it more affordable for everyone. That's why people voted for you. And I interviewed Zoron during the campaign in person in New York. He has megawatt charisma, personality. It's intoxicating. And his decency and his goodness radiates off of him. I mean, a once in a generation type candidate.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. So Trump was like, it was so interesting because you remember Elon standing next to the desk like sort of Darth Vader. And then you have this image, which was within a short amount of time. What do you think? You tweeted me, you know, about Stephen Miller. Like, what. What is happening? What are the rest of them doing right now? Tell me the behind the scenes of that.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, I bet Stephen and Katie Miller are on full blown suicide watch. Yeah, I bet Kristi Noem just doesn't know what to do. I bet it is Jealous, party of one, your table is now available for our little smokey Eye sociopath JD Vance. He disrupted the entire thing. Both the establishment Democrats, Elise Stefanik's bid for governor.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

The ADL's complaint about Zoran Mandani, which is rooted in Islamophobia. It's just. It was wild. I couldn't believe it.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. And he did it largely because this is a winner. This is a. You know, I predicted it. Let me just say I was. I thought so. Only because he's so handsome and such a winner that this is what attracts Trump again. I watch the Apprentice. I know what he likes. He switches on a dime to people. But most of all, everything that was consistent was winner handsome. Great hair. Like that seemed to. He has great hair.

[Jennifer Welch]

No, it's true, Carrie, your instincts on that are so true. It boils down to he saw the imagery that he could be photographed next to a winner and how politically savvy he was to see that. I went to Zoran Mamdani's victory party and I was so shocked that Chuckles and Hakeem, both, you know, New Yorkers, were not on the stage writing this victories coattails, that their political instincts were so off.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, Right. Because of reasons that weren't going to help them with voters. Right. So speaking of voters, and I want to get to Marjorie. This will help Trump because he's in the basement. I mean, the numbers are so bad. To me, this will help him.

[Jennifer Welch]

I completely agree. I think that Zoran Mamdani's race was the canary in the coal mine. Can the people stand up against big money? And there's the richest city in the world. The richest people in the world colluded together to try to get this man to not win. And he didn't just win. He kicked their asses. And his affordability message is so on point right now. Not last night's Bill Maher, but the one before last Friday. He did try to do a joke about Zoran Mamdani being the face of the Democratic Party. Crickets in the audience. He's popular. His policies are very, very popular. And I do think that Kank's shining that little penny and trying to get some of that glow on him might help him a bit. With independence.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? With independence. Because he looks like he can deal. Right. As opposed to being everything else. But of course, it set out like a firestorm within maga because they're already mad at him about the Saudis. They were already mad about a number of things. Right. In the Epstein files. It certainly takes the focus off the Epstein files. This is something that actually does compared to other things. But then we have Marjorie Taylor Greene making this announcement. Thoughts? First initial thoughts.

[Jennifer Welch]

My first initial thought was it reminded me totally of Sarah Palin when Sarah Palin was the vice presidential candidate with John McCain and she was in the lower 48. And it's all glam and glitz and she does all these media tours and then she goes back to Alaska and then she resigns. And so Marjorie just did this huge press blitz and now she's going back to Congress. And it's interesting. I think the lesson that the Democrats, messaging wise, can take from this is the left has hated Marjorie Taylor Greene ever since she started running, ever since she bullied David Hogg.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Jewish space, lasers and all of that stuff. And she's never been scared for her life until. Right. Started bullying her.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, Right. Exactly. Yeah. So you think it's out of fear. AOC immediately said, oh, she got her pension. She's going to get her pension. She made, I think, $25 million with the allegations in stock trades. And, you know, it was interesting because here's a poem. This is something that was online. I loved all the online stuff, though. Were you, like, eating every bit of it up last night?

[Jennifer Welch]

So injecting it into my veins. People are so good.

[Kara Swisher]

So funny. So he wrote, these people are insane. But also good riddance. But also good for her for standing up for herself. But also. Sheesh. That was a poem you just wrote. That's how I felt. Let me play her resignation announcement, too, because she said, this isn't 3D chess. I'm not up to something. Let's listen.

[Jennifer Welch]

I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the president that we all fought for, only to fight and win my election. While Republicans will likely lose the midterms and in turn be expected to defend the president against impeachment after he hatefully dumped tens of millions of dollars against me and tried to destroy me. It's all so absurd and completely unserious. I refuse to be a battered wife, hoping it all goes away and gets better.

[Kara Swisher]

Whoa. Pulling out the battered wife. It's a populist tone. She complains about both parties, how they're broken, not doing enough to help the. There was many more. She put out a lot of stuff. She was up all night. Right. Crafting this stuff. I guess she makes it clear she's still opposed to immigration, access to abortion and trans rights. There's no change there. Trump said this was great news for the country. It's Great. Steve Bannon told the New York Times the House is not big enough for her ambitions, personality. We haven't seen or heard the last of her. This. You know, she had several key quotes. I'd love you to respond to them. Loyalty should be a two way street. Standing up for American women who were raped at 14, trafficked and used by rich, powerful men should not result in being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States, whom I fought for. You know, she went on and on and on. And this battered wife thing, I mean, thoughts and what's happening here.

[Jennifer Welch]

I've long thought that she was going to run for higher office. And I don't think it's Senate, I think it's President. And you just told me something I hadn't heard. I heard it for the first time just now that Steve Bannon, that quote that he just said about the Congress isn't big enough for her ambitions. And when I saw Marjorie with Steve Bannon, I thought to myself, Steve Bannon was the brains, the Karl Rove, if you will, behind Kanks's ascension. And Steve Bannon loves populism, he loves conspiracy theories. And Marjorie Taylor Greene is playing that playbook perfectly right now.

[Kara Swisher]

What does she do? What is, what is the next thing she does? Goes on cnn, gets a contract to be on cable. So she's.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I think she continues the rebrand because she has quite a bit to do. And I anticipate that she is going to offer an off ramp to Republican voters who felt betrayed by Trump, who are in financial ruins, but still package it up with, we're nicer, but we still hate trans people. We're still America first. We still need to deport, you know, immigrant. And Republicans are comfortable in that zone. They're comfortable where you can give them a little bit of compassion with a little bit of bigotry.

[Kara Swisher]

And zero Epstein.

[Jennifer Welch]

That's right.

[Kara Swisher]

And zero Epstein. Because she's, you know, fought against that. I do think that fight is genuine in that regard. I don't think she's taking advantage. I mean, she is also.

[Jennifer Welch]

Don't you think it's wild, Cara, that she ascended because she was a qanon er, because she was against the elite cabal of pedophiles. And then she gets inside the Death Star and she finds out the elite cabal of pedophiles are the people that she campaigned for?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no, it's a movie. It's a movie. It's a totally. It is. So what is her next move? Does she fade away for A little bit because she, you know, one of the things about, as you know about the modern media environment, which I think Mamdani and Trump do well, is to constantly be present, like in people's minds. So if you were advising her, what would you say to her? I know, I'm sorry.

[Jennifer Welch]

No. Okay. All right. If I were advising her, I would tell her to move quickly and have a book that put where she took accountability for everything. Think about Barack Obama. Yes, I did cocaine. Yes, I smoked marijuana. He got ahead of it. So a book where she basically deprograms herself. She can have a ghostwriter write it while she stays in media. I agree with you. She needs to be ubiquitous on podcasts, on cable news. She needs to blow up up her social media. But I think she needs to put it in writing to get on offense of all of her former crazy positions and offer a lot of well meaning people in rural America and suburban America who their only piece of culture are their churches and offer them an off ramp that we can still be compassionate. And we got sucked into this cult and we were lied to by Trump, but our party is still here and our values are still here and we get to still hate immigrants together, but just more compassionately. Kind of like a George W. Bush compassionate conservatism thing.

[Kara Swisher]

And then she runs for president against.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Smokey eye. Smokey. What's it? Little Smokey.

[Jennifer Welch]

A little smokey.

[Kara Swisher]

Little Smokey. And what is that last thing? Where does this put him? Because you can see Cruz working with this or any of the others. And obviously Elise Stefanik is screwed. And Kathy Hochul put a knife in her back really beautifully. She's full of shit. I kind of like Kathy Hochul these days. But what happens to these different stars? Because would be J.D. vance, there's Josh Hawley, there's. What does Vance do? Because it really does put him on his. He's totally bought into everything with Trump. So much so that he seems like a suck up, you know? And Mandani somehow got Trump to pose in front of fdr, the greatest socialist president. Right. The one who that was. I was like, I'm glad people did notice that. I was like, Carrie, did you see.

[Jennifer Welch]

Where he posted on Truth Social as solo a glamour shot of Zoron posing by himself. I mean this is a crush.

[Kara Swisher]

And also with the back. Did you see the back in looking over the. I guess the Trump patio. I don't know what's back there now. Yes, but like the two of them, like he's handing over the reins that photo was, son, this patio, this Mar a Lago patio shall be yours someday. And you could hear the bubble above Zar Mandani's this will be gone someday. But that was like a. A son father kind of photo, which was. I'm sure the Trump boys were just weeping.

[Jennifer Welch]

It was wild. I don't know if Trump is calculating, like, somehow legacy stuff. I mean, he's a lame duck, you know, And I go both ways. Dictators think they're going to cling onto power forever, and they never see them ever leaving, nor is there any plan. There's no succession plan. Or is he kind of collud with. Not colluding that Zoron is participating in, but optically saying, okay, you know, there's room in America for all of these places. But as it pertains to the people, Moses, Mike, Grinder, Johnson, little Smokey, the ones that are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with Kanks, Kara, these people's careers will be over. I just do not see that there is oxygen. We're 10, 11 months in to this shit show and the wreckage and the carnage already. I don't see that the electorate is even remotely going to allow for any successor that remained loyal to the cult once biology takes care of him. Or the term limit.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. So he's getting out before them. He's such a. He is fleeing his ship with this. That's what I thought. I'm like, look what he just did. Like, I liked him slightly more like, I know it sounds crazy. I don't like him very much at all. But, but, but the. When he looked up at him, it was. I was like, wow, this guy will do anything to reinvent himself.

[Jennifer Welch]

It was I. Somebody put on Twitter yesterday, I haven't seen Trump this happy since the McDonald's buffet at the White House. And it was a picture of McDonald, of Trump in front of all the McDonald's buffet care. And he's like, grinning ear to ear. But the photo of him looking up adoringly at Zoron, that's wild.

[Kara Swisher]

It is wild.

[Jennifer Welch]

I don't think you heard Fox News when they were giddy. They went back that one. I can't remember the guy's name, but he's the one who suggested we should euthanize. Kill Mead. We should euthanize homeless people. After he sees it, it clicks to him and he's giddy and he's giggling. He said, well, J.D. vance probably sure is so jealous.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Even Fox is throwing little Smokey under the bus.

[Kara Swisher]

Kara yeah, yeah. Smokey is repugnant. So I could see that. I could see that. As you know, Trump knows political popularity and he just goes right to it. I just am like, I didn't think the first person off the ship would be the captain, but I guess so. Captain does not go down with his ship. That is what I thought. I was like, he's the rest of them, and he, like, sails away to his future and stuff. He's got to pay any price whatsoever. And it does knock Epstein off, like, for a second. Although that's not going to go away. And let me be clear with people. He might still invade New York with National Guard, even though he's losing everywhere from a. From a legal perspective, but he's still Donald Trump. Let's be clear. Like, and you never know where that's going. And all I thought is the meds, everyone's meds have kicked in this week in some fashion.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm sure Stephen Miller had some physician on speed dial immediately. I mean, because you picture ketchup being thrown when bad things happen at the White House. And I thought about Stephen Miller. Just. I mean, just.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's the first thing you texted me.

[Jennifer Welch]

Suicide watch. Full blown suicide watch. Because this is the remedy. Multiculturalism, embrace different faiths. He embraced Zoron in such a loving, adoring way. This is the remedy to all of the white supremacy in which Stephen Miller views his plans for the United States.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, last question. What do the Dems do now? You've talked about. What do they do at this point? Because they. They. He managed to, like, sort of attack the Republicans and the Democrats by doing this. And. And whatever you think of Marjorie Greene, she's out of his hair, right? For now, at least. I mean, she's out of his hair completely.

[Jennifer Welch]

The Democrats have got to watch Ro Khanna. He is outflanking every single one of them all the time. He's everywhere. He's on podcasts, he's on the news. We need our Democratic establishment to quit focusing on focus groups. It's not focus groups anymore. That is an old antiquated way of learning about people. You can learn about people by simply listening to podcasts, looking at comments, and the Democrats are going to have to embrace every single Democratic candidate that wins, whether it's a centrist in Virginia or a Democratic socialist in New York. But you know what's interesting? This tells you how bad Hakeem Jeffries political instincts are. While Trump is crispy cream glazing Zoron in the Oval. Hakeem is voting to condemn socialism. Just the bullshit performative stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

That they do in Congress that nobody gives a about. And Hakeem doing that. And he's constantly falling into their traps, the Republicans. And he gets outflanked all the time. And this time he gets outflanked by a fascist who Zoron put on such a charm offensive. Trump said, it's okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Go ahead, go ahead, call me a fascist. Zoron's like, call me a despot. Yeah, okay. And I'm like, yeah, because they both look good. I hate to say it, but they both look good. And you're right. Hakeem Jeffries. I was like, are you kidding me? I already think those things are dumb. Anyway, Jennifer, I'm so glad you came back because I was like, I must speak with him about these things.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

So I don't know what's going to happen Monday, but let me just say, the only thing I thought of as I was reading all this, one thing after the next, it was at dinner, was, you can't go to dinner, first of all, was we are actually in a simulation and some really bored teenager from the future is like, going, oh, here's what I'm going to do today. That's the first time I was like, this is not real. This cannot be real. But it is.

[Jennifer Welch]

It was wild and a much needed salve for our tormented brains and hearts of what happens every day, being an American and the instability that we feel on a daily basis.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you felt good for a second. Like, yeah, we can get along. I guess even. Even a fascist and a socialist can get along.

[Jennifer Welch]

But like you said, Kara, this could all switch with one truth social post. The minute we click not to record.

[Kara Swisher]

Any longer, if someone else gets to him and then tries to convince him. Anyway, I'm eager to hear your show about what all the Oklahomans think of this. You're there for the next. For the next week, so I'm sure it'll be interesting to see their reaction to all this. Anyway, thank you so much, Jennifer. I really appreciate you coming back.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, let's get into it. Jennifer, thanks for coming on off.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thanks for having me, Kara. I think you're very cool and so I feel cooler being on your podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, stop it. You're the cool one right now. You're in, like, the center of the red hot. Did you expect this success so quickly?

[Jennifer Welch]

No, I did not. We originally started just shit talking, you know, stuff that is a grievance to anybody, but toddlers are assholes. That was the one that really they are. I mean you love them and they're important, but God, they can be assholes.

[Kara Swisher]

I just had one of those encounters this morning. That's why over sho as you start.

[Jennifer Welch]

Seeing what's happening politically. I've always been a die hard political junkie and rather outspoken about it and I can't help but for these opinions to come out of me and so I thought maybe it would be kind of a niche political thing. Not that I would. We would have this type of platform popularity.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you and your co host Angie Sullivan, who's not here, how dare her have two podcasts. She's doing something with her K. There's a flagship show, I've had it. And also the shorter daily podcast I Hip News. You've got about 4 million followers across all your platforms and you've added more than a million subscribers to YouTube since the election. So Democrats have started to realize that they need to be talking to their voters on independent media. But there's a lot of hesitation and fear and it seems like they still prefer legacy media. I keep saying my podcast is bigger than your show. Like I'm sorry, I mean, you know what I mean. So talk about your pitch to sort of leery Democrats. They've always talked about creating a, you know, left Joe Rogan and here you are. Like they wouldn't ever imagine that that's what you are in some ways.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, I, I mean I don't think I'm the left Joe Rogan because although I liked trash talk, I don't traffic in conspiracy theories which I think is really, really dangerous. But I do think that, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

Their point, their point is powerful.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes. I do think that Democrats have establishment Democrats have the appearance right now of being a conservative party because they are pres. Tactics that they've used forever. Focus groups, disciplined messaging, word salad platitudes. And corporate media allows them to go on and non answer things and then they go to the next question and the next question. And they're not evolutionary in following the changing media landscape. The audience, right. And people want to know the people that deliver their news. They want to know something about me personally, they want to know something about you personally. With these phones we've gotten a little nosier. And the same goes for politicians. We want to see them off the cuff if they misstep. No big deal. And so some politicians are great. They come on. I've noticed the politicians like an example, Ro Khanna, he doesn't take any corporate pac Money. He'll come on anytime. We don't have to have a, you know, what are we going to talk about beforehand?

[Kara Swisher]

He's just completely liberal, promiscuous. I joke with him about it. I said, you have to be promiscuous in this. And speaking of being on your back and you know, you have to really be everywhere, essentially.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I agree. And I think it's a great way for Democrats to evolve and if they misstep, to be able to embrace. Yeah, I was on there. We were spitballing. What I really mean is this. And look at how the Republicans slash MAGA movement have evolved in that regard. Look at how far they've moved in that regard. And when I think about back in the day, it was the appearance that the liberals controlled all of the news. So the right built the, this massive media ecosystem.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they were left out.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. And now you see that the Trump oligarch, friends, billionaire buddies are buying up all of the mainstream media and we're the left out ones now. And so I'm so happy to collaborate with any podcaster, pro democracy person on the left because I see us all as allies that are messaging to a part of the electorate that is hurting, that feels targeted, that is grieving what they thought the promise of America is. Not to mention the financial anxiety that so many Americans are struggling from. And I see, and you probably see this with your audience. We're building communities and it's so important to feel connected when you see so much injustice.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's a parasocial relationship in a weird way. But it isn't, it isn't that it's one way because we just finished the seven city and seven day tours with Pivot and the community was what the critical part. We sold out everything. And a lot of regular media people called me and they're like, how did you do that? I'm like, how did you not do this? You're sitting in these airless studios broadcasting essentially corporate media. And what. Especially with the Democrats. I said, it's boring, it's not interesting. But how do you get them to understand that independent media is where audiences. I think they kind of vaguely get it and then they create these laboratories like, like, we'll give a hundred thousand dollars to figure it out. I'm like, it's already figured out. It's not. I don't know. It's very frustrating when I'm talking to a lot of them.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I've experienced the same thing when I start when we have a politician on and I Get an email from one of their aides that wants the talking points. I'm like, this is. This is not going to be that great of a guest, because you need to be able to come in and have a conversation with our audience open to anything. Just like you and I. We don't have talking points. Before I came on here, I don't know what you're going to ask me. And that's what garners trust for you with your audience and for my audience that comes over here to be introduced to you if they don't know you yet, which I can't imagine they wouldn't. But they need to liberate themselves. And I think it goes like this. If they could liberate themselves from corporate donations, they could liberate themselves conversationally. They're so inhibited, and they walk on eggshells. And that's why the Democratic establishment, to me, feels like the party of preservation. We want to preserve the way it's always been. We want to preserve status quo instead of evolving and becoming completely unobstructed conversationally. And in turn, they'll become a lot more likable and electable.

[Kara Swisher]

So you talked about who's getting it right, who's getting it wrong. I mean, whenever I see a social media thing by either Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries, I want to just cringe. It's like, massive. Like, what are you doing? You know, unless he really leaned into Grandpa, right. I wouldn't mind that as much as what's happening. It's like being Grandpa and then pretending you're not Grandpa. That. That really irritates me. But how do they get it wrong? And who else is getting it right?

[Jennifer Welch]

So I think the people that are getting it wrong are obviously Jeffries, Schumer. Cory Booker came onto our podcast and completely misstepped.

[Kara Swisher]

What did he do?

[Jennifer Welch]

So I asked him, what have you had it with? And he said he had had it with corporate PAC donations. And I said, well, don't you take money from a package? And then the defenses started coming up. I asked him a very simple yes or no question. Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal? And the answer to that question is yes. And he couldn't answer it. He kept going on and on and on, and we kind of got into it, and there, if you think about it, there's been three missteps from establishment Democrats on podcasts surrounding this issue. Gavin Newsom was asked about aipac, and he says the word interesting, interesting, interesting. Nine times you counted out Pete Buttigieg, who is a gifted orator kind of face plants on Pod Save and Cory Booker face planted on our podcast, and it went completely viral. And so I think that, again, it goes back to when you're beholden to very few. This is a very transparent media platform. You get exposed very quickly. If you start bs, the bullshit meter is instantly detectable. And so I think it's good that the ones that are getting it wrong right now, come on, see what the base is saying. Quit focus grouping. Get yourself out into the American public and see how it goes and change and evolve. And as a base, we have to be somewhat forgiving if they misstep and come back and clean up. Because as much as Chuckles and Hakeem drive me crazy, they are the leaders that we have have.

[Kara Swisher]

They.

[Jennifer Welch]

They are who we have. And so I'm cheering for them to succeed. So if they can clean up their kind of embarrassing, cringy posts and become more relatable, I'm going to cheerlead for them, but I'm also not going to be a sycophant for them and just go along with, boy, they wrote a strongly worded letter. Go get him, Chuckles.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, the strongly. That was Chuckles strongly worded letter. I really mean it. And meanwhile, Trump's, like, knocking down the wedding White House. Let's talk a little about them in just a second. But let's talk about your background. You were born and raised in Oklahoma and lived there up until last month, but you were an odd person out, a liberal atheist in the conservative Bible Belt. Talk about your political isolation as a young person and recently as an adult with kids during the Trump era.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, so I was always the skunk at the garden party in the Bible Belt. I was raised by a three. My mother is a voracious reader learner. We always had the most stimulating conversations.

[Kara Swisher]

How'd they get there?

[Jennifer Welch]

So my mother born in Dallas, Texas, and she had a very mentally ill mother, probably borderline personality disorder. And her mother was. Was really cruel to her. And my mother was around 7 years old, and she lost this little purse, and she lost it at church. And my mother just prayed and prayed and prayed. God, please help me find this purse. You know how mean she's going to be to me. This is going to be terrible. This can be terrible. This can be terrible. Lo and behold, her answer. Her prayers went unanswered and she never found the purse. She paid for it for years because her mother would be the type of person that would bring it up over and over. And over and just browbeat her for it. And at her young age in that kind of Dallas evangelical Christian world, she just sniffed it out that it wasn't real. So then she started taking the bus to the library when she was a teenager and just reading about religion and all of this stuff. And she, at a very young age, became an atheist and never bought into any of it. And. And growing up in my house, because when you live in the Bible belt and your peers are evangelical Christians, their number one goal is not helping the poor, not helping the sick. It is to recruit you. It is to proselyte.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

So it was really difficult for me sometimes as a teenager because all of my friends were really, really, really religious. And I'm talking like spiritual warfare. I would go to slumber parties and. And a girl that I was at the slumber party would say, I can feel the presence of a demon in the corner of the room.

[Kara Swisher]

That would be you. Is it a K pop demon?

[Jennifer Welch]

Probably. Anyway, but in all of that just seems so insane. So I would.

[Kara Swisher]

Why did she stay there? Why did your parents stay there?

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, I mean, my dad had business business there. And my mother is not super social. Her best friend is cuddled up with a book. My dad does a lot of business in Belgium and Holland. He flies racing pigeons, which is kind of an old, old sport, but it's very, very popular in Belgium and Holland. Very, very popular. And my dad was the world's largest seller and breeder of racing pigeons. So he needed to live on a lot of land because he didn't want. You couldn't have neighbors.

[Kara Swisher]

Those racing pigeons need a lot of space.

[Jennifer Welch]

They need a lot of space. And so they would go to Europe multiple times a year. My dad lived over there a lot of the time. They were from Dallas. Both came from working class, middle class families, entrepreneurs. And they became very successful. We became an upper middle class family. But moving wasn't ever in the cards for them.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. This is where they were. And so you were subjected to that. But raised by your dad also was not religious. Correct?

[Jennifer Welch]

Correct.

[Kara Swisher]

So here you are stuck here in the middle of nowhere, essentially for you, from your perspective, doing the same thing, reading, being aware of this. Did you ever think about becoming evangelical?

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes. So my very first boyfriend, his name was Sean. And I was just madly in love with him, as every teenager is with their first boyfriend. And Sean's dad was a retired southern Baptist preacher. And Sean's mother was very concerned that he was dating an infidel. So she bought me a precious moments Bible?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I've seen that.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I have.

[Kara Swisher]

I have religious relatives. Go ahead.

[Jennifer Welch]

So I started to read it. My mother was just horrified. I mean, just like, I cannot believe the nerve of this woman, Jennifer, to buy you a Bible. That's just unbelievable. And Sean's dad was retired, but he was only, like, in his mid-40s, and he just didn't have his life together. They were broke. The mom had to go back to work and the whole thing. I mean, they weren't very good representatives of evangelicals. Right. So my mother was very fascinated by Sean's dad and his kind of economic decline, his mental decline, all of these things. My mother spent. This was before the Internet. Spent time at the library and comes back, she says, jennifer, she's real dramatic. She says, darlin, I've diagnosed Sean's father. I believe he suffered from religious addiction. Here are these symptoms. And. And she's printed this article about religious addiction, and she's printed all the symptoms, and he had every single one of them.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow.

[Jennifer Welch]

So at every turn that I tried to maybe try to fit in, if you're not indoctrinated, it's a really hard pill to swallow, Right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

The creation story and all of that. If you don't. If that doesn't enter your psyche. Young.

[Kara Swisher]

No, my grandmother on my dad's side, they're all very religious, and my aunt in particular was very religious and always sent me stuff. But we were sent over the summer. I have 10 cousins. When we stayed, my grandmother's to Bible camp, and my mom is Catholic, and she was hoar. She's like, why are they sending you to Baptist? But it was really fascinating, you know, I found it riveting. And they kept trying to get me, and it just never stuck. Neither did the Catholics, by the way. And they're much more of a soft sell, right? And at one point, when my aunt died, I just thought of this. You know, they did the service. It was very Jesusy, very. I was in West Virginia, and like, fine, this is their way, and stuff like that. And I sat there, I put up. It was like, okay, more Jesus, more Jesus. And then we get to the cafeteria where you're going to eat the food afterwards. And I was really hungry. It was a long service. And then the pastor, who's standing next to me again, I didn't realize, starts doing more of it. And I said, oh, for goodness sake, have we had enough, Jesus? And I said it out loud, and I was like. And then I go, never enough Jesus. It was terrible. But when you met Angie, your co host, she was a conservative evangelical. And the book you two published earlier this year, Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches and may I say, the finest title in the land. You wrote about having to put up with a hard boundary to get her to stop recruiting you to the church. And she obviously isn't conservative anymore. But you converted her, I guess. But in the early days, you bonded over other things. Your kids, your difficult marriages. And also, it wasn't weird to be friends with people who voted differently than you then. But had you met Angie during the Trump, would either of those things have outweighed your political differences? Do you see that happening?

[Jennifer Welch]

Probably it would have, because it was. When I met Angie, we were in the exact same season. We both married to attorneys. Both of these attorneys had a lot of interpersonal problems. We had kids the exact same age, and we had fantastic chemistry, and I really enjoyed her. But sometimes she would recruit me so heavily to go to Bible study and wouldn't respect the boundary because in her and I, I'm not picking on her.

[Kara Swisher]

What would you say?

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, like, here's a prime example, Cara. We went to take the kids to toddler gymnastics because you're always trying to run the toddlers out so they'll go to sleep at night, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I get it.

[Jennifer Welch]

So she had asked me to go to Bible study. I said, no, pick me up after Bible study. We'll take the kids to the pizza buffet, and then we'll take them to gymnastics. She picks me up. This is a lawyer. And she pumps, is smart. And she said, did you know that people used to live, live to be 950 years old? And I go, angie, that never happened. It never happened. People live longer now because of two things, filtered water and modern medications. Those are the two reasons we live longer. Nobody ever lived to be 950. She said, well, there wasn't disease in the Garden of Eden. And I said, according to whom? And she said, well, the Bible. And it was just this insanity. And sometimes after something like that happened, all of my friends in Oklahoma, I had found solace in a gaggle of gay men because they had been kind of picked on and shamed by the same group of evangelicals that had been targeting me. And I'm a decorator and, like, clothes and, you know, gay men and I just get along perfectly. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I have a friend in Tennessee. Same thing.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. And so sometimes I would pull away from her a little bit because the overt religiosity was, was so much. But she was so good and finally respected the boundary. And we never got into it. We never had an adversarial conversation about it. Never. It was all very civilized, but I would just slowly start dropping hints. Like, I remember we went to the. We went to the dinosaur museum in Norman, Oklahoma, at the University of Oklahoma, and we took our kids, and we're looking at the dates of how long ago these dinosaurs or bones lived. And I said, isn't that something that this predates the Garden of Eden? And she would kind of chuckle a little bit. So we kind of had this tongue in cheek thing back and forth. But she called me about three years ago, and I'll never forget it. I was sitting in my interior design office, and she called me and she said, jennifer, I need to tell you something really important I've been talking to my therapist about. And Angie's never dramatic like this. And I was like, okay, what is.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it?

[Jennifer Welch]

And she said, after my dad died, I just don't think that he's in heaven. And I said, you don't think he's in heaven because he's in hell, or you don't think he's in heaven because you don't believe in heaven? And she said, I don't believe in heaven. And she started crying because of the grief associated with that. And I just comforted her and said, you know, I love you. I know this has been a huge part of your life. You know, are you. What do you think? She said, I just think so much of this has been bullshit. I did everything I was supposed to do my whole life. I did everything right and prayer. She was a good little girl and all of the things. And it was just like the title of our book, A Shit Sandwich. And so I called my mother after this, and I told her, because my mother would always say, jennifer, Jennifer. She's in her Dallas accent. She'd say, jennifer, I think Angie's just darling, but as you all age, she'll become more religious. And I'm sure that you're, you know, go a separate way. So I told my mother that Angie had been in the process, unbeknownst to me, of deconstructing her faith with her psychotherapist. And my mother was so great. She said, jennifer, you need to be really supportive because there's a lot of grief involved in this. Like, she's grieving. It's like a death. It is.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. Yeah. It's a really interesting thing, especially because it's critically important and I have a lot of respect. My grandmother went to mass every day, a Catholic, and my aunt was the loveliest person you could meet, but almost constantly trying to recruit. You know, it was a really interesting thing. And at one point she said, jesus died for you. And I said, I didn't ask him. I, I was joking, obviously. But it's. It, it was hard and it was, I definitely gave her comfort. And the same thing with my grandmother, which is why I was respectful of it. And actually I was confirmed. You know, I did the whole thing, the first Holy Communion, the first Holy Confession. But the day I was confirmed, I walked out of that church at 12, 13 years old. I never walked back in since. We'll be back in a minute. Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. Look, everyone wants to go faster. Whether you're stuck in line, standing at the DMV or you've got a huge to do list at work, that doesn't seem to go away. But usually when things are rushed, mistakes tend to follow. That's where Smartsheet steps in. They can get you the speed you need and the productivity to go alongside it. Smartsheet is the intelligent work management platform that embeds AI powered execution to drive the velocity of work. With their AI first capabilities, you can make work management your superpower, getting personalized insights automatically, creating tailored solutions and streamlining workflows to elevate your work. This intelligence layer unites people, processes and data, helping you tackle any work management challenge. Plus, smartsheet AI turns intent into guided workflows and smarter outcomes by generating tailored solutions and personalized insights through intelligent AI assistance. The result is an environment where humans plus AI work collectively to anticipate needs, remove barriers and enable greater impact so you can make move faster, think bigger, and drive greater business growth. Visit smartsheet.com Vox. Support for on with Kara swisher comes from LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs when you clock out? Sure, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. LinkedIn's new feature allows you to write job description and quickly get your job in front of the right people. With deep candidate insights. You can either post your job for free or pay to promote in order to receive three times more qualified applicants. Let's Face it, at the end of the day, the most important thing for your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. That's why LinkedIn claims that 72% of small business owners who use LinkedIn find high quality candidates. So find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Kara that's LinkedIn.com Kara to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[Jennifer Welch]

Foreign.

[Kara Swisher]

For this show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. Sometimes the difference between success and failure comes down to one chance encounter, or following a counterintuitive instinct, or ignoring conventional wisdom to make a bold decision. Like when the founders at Palo Alto Networks wanted to redefine cybersecurity for the modern age. Everybody, everybody thought we were crazy.

[Jennifer Welch]

Nobody would use the cloud for cybersecurity.

[Kara Swisher]

And when I hear something like that.

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

I say, of course I'm going to do it.

[Jennifer Welch]

If everybody believes it shouldn't be done.

[Kara Swisher]

Or it cannot be done, then it's.

[Jennifer Welch]

A good reason to do it.

[Kara Swisher]

Or when mobile gaming giant supercell could only rewrite the rules of the industry after failure in the company's formative stages, many of the best things we've learned have actually come through failures. These are Crucible Moments, turning points in a couple company's journey that made them what they are today. Hosted by Sequoia Capital's Rulofota, Crucible Moments is back for a new season with stories from Zipline, Stripe, Palo Alto Networks, supercell and more. Subscribe to season three of Crucible Moments. New episodes are out now and you can catch up on seasons one and two@Crucible Moments.com on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Crucible Moments Moments today. You and Andy launched the I've had it podcast in 2022 and as as you said, it didn't start off overly political, but very much became one. The left wing Twitch streamer Hasan Piker called I've had it the most radical progressive podcast in North America. And that's saying a lot from Hasan as the show became more popular. You're still taking your son to basketball games. You're interacting with a lot of parents in Oklahoma, probably, probably may not know about it or think you're a bad person. You're running your interior design business. Why did you start it and what impact did it have on your lives in Oklahoma as it started to blow.

[Jennifer Welch]

Up, you know, it didn't have a whole lot of impact on our lives in Oklahoma. Oklahoma City is an exact microcosm of the whole United States electorate. We voted in our city just one percentage more red than we did blue. Blue. And so you have. And you know this from your family and having people in red states, if you're a blue dot in a red state, you're built a little different. You're a tough style of liberal. So I have a lot of fabulous progressive friends in Oklahoma. And I had this, you know, I still have the same friends now that I did before the podcast. Now, sometimes at basketball games, I would hear I parents that I knew were triple trumpers that I knew were mega churches would say something like, I was like, I'm sorry I missed the last game. I was out of town. They would say, where were you? And I would say, oh, I was in New York. And they would say, were you scared? Are you okay? And I knew it was an immediate Fox News. But in general terms, people are pretty polite. Nobody has ever said something to my face disparaging in Oklahoma. Oklahomans are very friendly people. I think a lot of the vitriol we see are keyboard warriors more than anything. But it really didn't change my life in Oklahoma much. But here's one thing. A lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of men that really surprised me that I thought for sure were Republicans, come up and they whisper, keep doing what you're doing. I love every bit of it. Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

When you were there. But you moved to Manhattan, that scary, terrifying place of wonder and fantasticness after your youngest son started college in Los Angeles. But in your book, you talked about feeling really conflicted about leaving there. You cited your parents and your friends, these friends you're talking about, as a reason for staying. To what extent are you worried that doing a podcast from New York will change how people receive it? Because I think one of the most appealing things was that it wasn't coming from the coastal media bubbles of Washington, D.C. or New York City or Los Angeles. That was something new. Talk about that move.

[Jennifer Welch]

So I had always wanted to. I longed to live in a. Every time I would leave Oklahoma City, and I love Oklahoma City, but every time I would leave.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. Because everything's up to date there.

[Jennifer Welch]

Totally.

[Kara Swisher]

It's gone about as far as they could go.

[Jennifer Welch]

And I just would. I just felt like, God, I really want. I really want to live in a big city. And there's this stereotype that is thrust upon women. So many things are thrust upon us that we have to roles we have to fill. And one of them is that when you're an empty nester, you're just sent off to the pasture you're at, eggs are no longer good and you're supposed to be somewhat depressed with, you know, your chickens out of the nest, et cetera, et cetera. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to rent an apartment in New York for a year. Why not, why not have a mid life gap year? Why not do it? Why do I have to do what society has put on me? We started a new career, midlife. Why can't I sign a lease for a year and see if I like it or not? I might end up running back to Oklahoma City. I may end up staying and extending it, but why not try to do something different? And I've been up here for six weeks now and I love it. I absolutely love it. I'm heading.

[Kara Swisher]

Where are you living? What part of the city?

[Jennifer Welch]

Chelsea.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, fantastic.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. And I brought my dogs, my French bulldogs up here because I'm happiest in their company. And it's just been, my husband is going back, back and forth. He's a criminal defense attorney and our marriage is very battle tested. He's, I supported him through his, his efforts to get sober and he's been so supportive of me. He's like, it's your turn. And it's, we finally have a big kid relationship. And so that's been really cool.

[Kara Swisher]

What do you miss about Oklahoma City?

[Jennifer Welch]

Tennis. I play tennis every day.

[Kara Swisher]

You can play tennis? There's some fantastic. Haven't you seen? I mean, there are tennis courts in New York.

[Jennifer Welch]

They're so expensive and difficult to get. In Oklahoma City I can go every day on my lunch hour, podcasting or designing. I would go and play tennis and there's just something very therapeutic. I'm not that good at it either, but I'd hit with a pro, grunt as I hit the ball, pretend like I'm, you know, a professional. And I'm nowhere near that. But I, I exercise every day. I miss the ease. No traffic.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Of getting in the car in which you can move about. But in general, I think my personality type, I'm better suited in a big multicultural city. What's been so cool, Kara? Yesterday, I'm walking to the gym and this guy on a bike, brown skinned, I don't know, Latino, Arabic or whatever, he turns his bike around and comes, he goes, hey, lady, lady. I'VE had it, lady. And this happens like four or five times a day. And he said, can I get a selfie? And I said, yes. And he grabbed my hand and. And he said, thank you for fighting for us. It means everything. And I just think that's really cool.

[Kara Swisher]

I get stopped like that a lot. In fact, I was just at the hardware store three times. It was really interesting.

[Jennifer Welch]

A lesbian at a hardware store.

[Kara Swisher]

I love the hardware store. I know. I'm not even gonna pretend it's not. It's a cliche, but it's true. It's fair. But I don't like sports, so, you know, I'm just keeping guessing. Keep em guessing. But let's talk about the podcast. The tone is, you know, blunt, irreverent, which I think you're exactly the way you are, which is why it works. It's genuine. There's a lot of swearing, which I enjoy. And you have fantastic nicknames for Republicans. President Trump is Kankel's McTaco tits. Kanks for short. I actually like Kanks better. I don't know why House Speaker Mike Johnson is Moses Mike Grindr Johnson.

[Jennifer Welch]

John. So good.

[Kara Swisher]

It's funny. Do you care about turning off conservatives or moderate women who might be open to reconsidering like people like Angie is there? There's an old expression that you catch more flies with honey than vineg, but you're catching lots of flies with vinegar. I mean, how do you come up with these names? And how do you. How do you. They seem very natural. So I'm not. It's not a stunt. This is not. I have a feeling you've made nicknames.

[Jennifer Welch]

For lots of people over the many years they came. We don't. We have a couple of talking points when we podcast, but we speak extemporaneously. And those just came up in the moment of filming. And, you know, kangles McTaco tits. And then another episode, I shortened it to Kanks, and I said just for spots. And Moses Mike Grinder Johnson. He was originally Moses Mike because there's this video of him talking about becoming speaker of the House where he says God woke him up in the middle of the night and said, hey, buddy, wake up. You're going to be Moses. And I'm like, we're acting like this is normal. This is crazy that he thinks he heard the voice of God and that God told him he was Moses. And then, of course, you know, there are a lot of Grinder allegations about him. And so I threw that one in because I really love to just browbeat him as far as turning off conservative women or moderate women. No, I'm not concerned about that because I know these women. And this is the Democrats fool's errand that they think that they can get these people to change their votes instead of investing in their base. And if you're ever going to get these people to like you, it is going to be by being authentic and getting on offense and get off of defense. Get completely off of defense. Defense offensively. We should be saying to these women that potentially I could offend. You're concerned about trans people? I'm concerned about the Republicans party obsession with trans people. Y' all talk about it all the time. I've never seen such trans obsessed people. And I wish that we would be more offensive in our strategy. And I felt like. And I, And I love Kamala, um, but I felt like she was gonna lose when she started trotting around with Liz Cheney. That's when I first looked at pumps. I said, this is a problem. These women are never gonna vote for her ever. We know these ladies. They're never gonna flip because of Liz Cheney. And so I don't. I don't worry about that. And I think. I think it's therapeutic to shit talk these bullies. And yeah, I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

I make fun of people all the time. And do you. Is there a new name you're cooking up? Is there. Do you have.

[Jennifer Welch]

Have a.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you have other names for Trump or.

[Jennifer Welch]

No. Ks is really stuck. I do call JD Vance the failed drag queen. Smokey. Ey. Sociopath. And now I've shortened that to little Smokey, you know, because he was a failed.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, couch.

[Jennifer Welch]

But he was a failed drag queen. And I think it's important to point that out. There's the photographs of. He just wasn't good at drag.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, no good ISO. Speaking of going on the. You got to give it to him. You got to give it to him. Good eyes. You don't hold back against Democrats either. We talked about your viral moment with Cory Booker. You went viral for pushing back hard on former Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel, which I love to see. I know him pretty well. And who wants Democrats to move away from talking, for example, about trans rights. You said the Democratic Party. These men represent more moderate centrist establishment. I think they take a dive, essentially. I agree with you. More maddening than maga. The counterargument is that the big tent party. You have ideological differences. So where's the line and compromise? Talk a little bit about these centrist. I find Them dickless. That's my way of thinking about it. You know, they're sort of dickless. Like just say something that's not mean or you don't win by being more like MAGA because people go to the OG MAGA if they want that stuff.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's exactly right. And I think I call these politicians pick me, Democrats pick me. I'm not going to say anything that offends anybody. And then in the process, they're just milquetoast. And we need to have politicians that we agree with. And let's take the example of Zoran Mamdani. He's probably further left than a lot of mainstream Democrats in the electorate. But a way to handle that is to say he's a little bit further left than I am. But his electorate in New York City is further left than we are. And one thing that we have in common is his message of affordability. And then if these centrists, the Rahm Emanuels and other Democrats that want to pick up the trans community, throw them under the bus and ride over them, we need to really be crystal clear that we will throw nobody under the bus. And if you have an economic populist message, then you need to say we believe in equality for everybody, even somebody who is trans, and we will leave nobody behind in our plan. That's what MAGA does. MAGA leaves people behind. We're not cruel like they are. And I think there's a way that we could message that. But what pisses me off, Kara, is when I see Democrats buy into the right wing media narrative that we need to move their way. And I think that is so wrong.

[Kara Swisher]

There's a lot of push to be like Rahm or Gavin Newsom did the same thing, a similar thing. Is that a real mistake? Because lately he's gotten more popular by not doing that, by being quite, you know, out there, ubiquitous, kind of mean, kind of funny, you know, not caring about offending people. He seems to be doing a lot better by being offensive. Really?

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I.

[Kara Swisher]

And I don't mean offensive. I mean on the offense. Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think that the Democrats, the ones that have some corporate stuff they need to clean up, are going to have to clean it up and they're going to have to go into their base. Because the autopsy that I see on this, on Kamala's election was the base didn't show up. And so we have the voters and we have the vote. And if we can wrap up a you brand of politics, we're not leaving anybody behind. Yes, we're compassionate. Yes, we're woke because we're not. And we're going to fight, you know, tooth and nail for every single American and leaving no one behind, not one person behind. And we're not going to kiss the ass of these corporations that dick you over. Don't have to pay taxes. I think that is the messaging, whether it's a little bit. Not quite as far left as Zoron, but that economic populist message. And think about how much more it's gonna be a year from now when the midterm.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's a Bernie Sanders message, really? Yeah, it's kind of a Bernie Sanders message who's now become adorable. But is there a more centrist Democrat you think that isn't out of touch with the electorate? Like Congresswoman Marie Gluzen Camp Perez from Washington? Is there someone you look to and you like? I like the cut of your jib.

[Jennifer Welch]

So I think a really important lesson for Democrats is Andy Bershear in Kentucky. He is a Democrat that won twice and he used his faith, which the Republican Party has put faith into the electorate forever. Now the Democrats just ignore it. And Andy Beshear used his faith to stand up for trans kids and he won and he won.

[Kara Swisher]

And James Talarico similar, right.

[Jennifer Welch]

And he won twice. And for me as an atheist, when I hear people talk about religion, any religion, I was just like, oh God. But we live in a very religious first world country and I know that they need to do this. And Andy Brashear isn't some crazy wild eyed liberal. I would say he's a centrist. But more than anything in our big tent, my thing is I like to beat Republicans. I like to win. I like for us to win elections because I know that if Republicans win, they will reign hellfire down on their citizens. And these exploitative MAGA Republican politicians use the faith to weaponize against the voters. Because so many people in Oklahoma, their whole social life is centered around the church. And so they Christians signal the same people that accuse us of virtue signaling. I'm going to accuse them of Christian signals signaling to get them to vote against their own economic interests, but most importantly to vote against the teachings of their alleged lord and personal savior, Jesus Christ, who sounds a lot more like the atheist Jew Bernie Sanders when he speaks than any of these MAGA politicians in these red states.

[Kara Swisher]

Christ came back today. They'd be like, whoa. They would not like Jesus. You know, Jesus was kind of cool, like the things. He was totally was quite socialist too. He's quite a socialist. We'll be back in a minute. Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me. We resolve queries fast. We work 247 and we're helpful, knowledgeable and empathetic. We're built to be the voice of the brands we serve. Sierra is the platform for building better, more human customer experience experiences with AI. No hold music, no generic answers, no frustration. Visit Sierra AI to learn more.

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[Kara Swisher]

So let's get to some big news stories right now because there's so many like every five seconds and I think Trump understands that and creates this constant news distraction rage machine essentially. So we this was a bad one. We saw Trump accuse a group of a half a dozen Democrats of seditious behavior that could be punishable by death. The Democrats had posted a video telling military leaders to refuse illegal orders, which actually is in their rules. It's in it's one of the top rules of the military. The White House denies he was calling for the execution. He did say hanging, but Trump has desensitized us. That kind of dehumanizing language, I think. And when it gets too far, he says it's a joke, essentially. So how do you think the Democrats should be responding to the latest escalation? I think being indignant is I have a lot of people saying, can you believe he did it? I go, yeah, me too. Yes, I can. Can you believe that drunk is drunk? I'm like, he's drunk because he's a drunk. Like, I don't know what else to say. How do you keep responding without adding to that feeling of desensitization and also not being constantly aggrieved. Right. Which I think is something Trump does too. He's always aggrieved.

[Jennifer Welch]

So I think that when I look at just mainstream media, the person who's been ubiquitous lately is Marjorie Taylor Greene. Right.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm going to get to her. Yes, go ahead.

[Jennifer Welch]

Why aren't the Democrats flooding the zone in reverse? Why are we not? And I agree with you to act shocked that he tweeted. What he tweeted yesterday is a level of willful blindness over what's happened in the last 10 years. I mean, this president incited an insurrection. We all saw it. And the Democrats need to be everywhere all of the time. Time, podcasts, mainstream media, saying to the American public, aren't you sick to death of this? Another day in America with a man who has dementia, who is cruel as all get out, who has tanked the economy. And they just need to keep hammering it over and over. And I do think the Democrats also need to be forward looking, like they're doing a really good job muddying up JD Vans stance. He's going to be on defense a lot with the couch, the eyeliner not standing up for his Indian wife or his mixed race kids and seeming to favor white nationalist talking points over the defense of his family. And I think we need to start muddying up any heir apparent of the MAGA movement because they do such a good job branding Democrats a certain way. And I think they should be out non stop Democrats beating this dementia thing. We know that media has it in them.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Because they did it with Biden. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I have a message that I used on the, in the, in the, on our podcast tour, which I'm like, look, I don't think he a couch, but he seems like he could be a couch. That's all I'm saying. Like, I'm not saying he did. I'm saying if anyone did, I would kick him out of a lineup of couch, essentially. So. And I just like the word couch.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, it's so good. It's just like kanks, please. Super satisfying.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Couchbugger. So let's get to Greene. You've been talking a lot about it. You think Greene and Tucker Carlson and I agree are positioning themselves for a post Trump Republican Party. They're very sad with both of them, especially around us, support for Israel and the war in Gaza. You say Democrats aren't taking them seriously enough and they have learned the lessons of 2016 and 2024. They're assuming voters will think they're too crazy. And of course, Greene has pulled back on the crazy. Suddenly she's very sensible, it seems like. And I just talked to Scott Jennings of all, and he's convinced that Vice President J.D. vance will be the Republican nominee in 2028, which I thought yay, because he's repugnant to voters. How would someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene or Tucker take over the party? And what are your thoughts of what each of them are up to?

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay. Marjorie Taylor Greene, if you look at what she's doing, she's using the Trump playbook. She is coming out of the gates attacking fellow Republicans. That's what Trump did. Lyin Ted, Little Marco, low energy Jeb.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Jennifer Welch]

Who advised Trump to do all, by the way, all accurate, 100% spot on. Loved it when he did it. At the time. I'm like, finally, somebody is browbeating these horrible, soulless Republicans. She's doing the same thing right now. She, Steve Bannon advised Trump back in the day and now he's advising Marjorie Taylor Greene. She is doing an America first messaging, which if you're on your algorithm and you see a cat and you see a hot person and you see, you know, a tennis court, and then you see Marjorie Taylor Green say, why did we give a blank check to Israel? Why are American taxpayers paying for this? They have free health care, they have free higher education. We don't. We know the American electorate is okay with people being crazy and voting for them. They've done it twice with President Trump. And so Marjorie Taylor Greene is doing a slight rebrand too, because right now it's so toxic and so horrific. So there's a blending of Biden's 2020 campaign. We're going bring you back to normal. We're going to lower the temperature. The problem for Marjorie Taylor Greene is one of the biggest rise in the country right now, besides anti immigration bigotry, is a rise of misogyny. So I don't know if that's going to be too big of an uphill climb for her. And I do think Tucker Carlson is really paving the way to make a very crazy racist big tent. With an assist now from the Heritage foundation after he platformed. Platformed Nick for. And you did. I didn't think Maggie could move further to the right, but the heir of parents. I'm going, oh, shit, they're going to go even more to the right.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. She certainly is more appealing. You know, she was a man. She'd do a lot better. You're right. You're absolutely right. But she certainly her modulation is fascinating and what I want some reporter to do and I really, I really enjoy her saying some of the things she's saying because I agree with her. But then I want the to say, tell me about what you think of immigrants. Tell me what you think of trans people. Tell me what you like. Let's make sure people realize, as reasonable as she sounds, she's not reasonable. Like, let's let her talk about the things where she's going to go.

[Jennifer Welch]

Gay marriage, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. What do you think of my marriage? Just curious, right?

[Jennifer Welch]

I mean, that's one that we could really ask. What do you think of gay marriage? Do you, do you think these people are going to burn in hell? Do you think the Supreme Court should overturn that? These are very, very, very important questions.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. We're going for the stuff we agree with her on, like, yes, on this, but the split, you know, within the MAGA movement, which I think she is leading and I think she's a very deft politician, actually, but also apologizing for her conspiracy theories, saying, I was indoctrinated and I'm now out of it.

[Jennifer Welch]

QAnon.

[Kara Swisher]

She's smart that way. And actually, you know what? That might be true. Right. I know a lot of people like that for sure. And it's, it's a very legitimate explanation, if true.

[Jennifer Welch]

And it offers an off ramp for the people that are still in it. That the Epstein thing, for a lot of people, their Identity was this QAnon thing. They formed a sense of community. And it's a noble cause to say we're fighting for the kids against these pedophiles. And then you find out the guy that you thought was going to whistleblow on the whole thing is cankles deep in the epicenter of it, you know, and then she's offering an off ramp to say, look, I was in that too, but you still can be a conservative Republican so they don't lose their whole idea.

[Kara Swisher]

Be concerned about the kids and be concerned. So this split, it's really one of the few issues Trump has had to retreat on because of pressure for his own party. Having spent most of your life in bright red state, as you said, why do you think it was the episode? I know why. It is from being deep in the online spaces that punch through for MAGA voters and not the bevy of billionaires at Trump's second inauguration, which they're starting to pay attention to. For sure. The right is too, also. The private plane, the tariffs, the rising prices, they are paying attention to that. But why Epstein and. And what should Democrats be doing right now? Obviously, they passed this bill. We'll see. And he signed it. How it goes from. But from your perspective, what's the strategy around this? Because it sticks.

[Jennifer Welch]

It sticks. I think if I were a Democratic strategist, my number one talking point right now would be the blowjob with Bubba that allegedly Vladimir Putin has evidence of. We know the right wing has a very long attention span surrounding the subject of blowjob jobs. Look no further than Bill Clinton that went on and on new being rich, Ken Starr, they impeached him for it. So lean into this blowjob where it also ties in national security. And I, if I were a Democrat on, you know, a Democratic strategist, I would say, you're telling me the president of the United States gave somebody named Bubba a blowjob and Vladimir Putin has evidence of it. Is that why he keeps bending over for Putin all the time? Because, oh, my God, Kara, the big thing that I've heard forever, my whole life living in a red state is, well, I believe in national security. I'm a national security Republican. It's this big thing. You support the troops, blah, blah. And the fact that there's so much against this guy that Mark Epstein comes back out, Kara, and says, hey, FYI, the Bubba guy wasn't Bill Clinton. Clinton. But he doesn't deny the blowjob or that Putin has evidence of it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

So if I were the Democrats, I would be beating the drum about this blowjob, because here's the thing. This dictator is built on this masculinity and this. And now the dictator is frail. He's no longer a strong man. We're seeing the physical manifestations of his frailty. Tack on him giving a blowjob. And also keep pointing to the fact that when he was on the campaign trail, he tried to give a microphone a blowjob was surprising. Familiar familiarity to the procedure. And that's on tape.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, is that, you know, but is that the way like, Democrats do like to say, you know, we're not them. Right. We're not gonna stoop.

[Jennifer Welch]

We're not them, and we lose.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay, so that's right. That's exactly so. Bubba Blowjob. All right.

[Jennifer Welch]

That's what I think. I think we have.

[Kara Swisher]

That's not very Ezra Kleiny.

[Jennifer Welch]

We have to stop integrity politics and stop assumption politics, and we have to fight these people with everything in us and quit trying to set some moral high ground that no longer exists in this moment. Hopefully we can get back to that. But in this moment, no go dirty. Talk about Bubba Blowjob.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. You're so Lee Atwater. You're Lee Atwatering me all over the place. So every episode we get an expert question. I selected yours very carefully. I'll be right there. Hey, Jennifer, it's Anderson Cooper. I really actually would have some questions about kids because I'm making milk right now and 6:00am and hey, buddy. They're very ungrateful. But what I'm going to ask you about is just a hypothetical.

[Jennifer Welch]

If, say, you were on a plane.

[Kara Swisher]

And it was your job to ask people questions and you asked somebody a question and they called and they said, quiet, piggy, how would you respond?

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you so much. That is so cool that Anderson Cooper just asked me a question. Kara. See again, more.

[Kara Swisher]

And in six in the morning, getting milk for his children.

[Jennifer Welch]

More evidence of how cool you are. And by now I'm cooler.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I heard. That's a dream. That's a dream. Guest for you. Yes, thank you. So here you are with President Trump. He says to you, you ask a question. He says, quiet, piggy. What do you say?

[Jennifer Welch]

I'd be like, are you fucking kidding me, you fat ass? You're calling me a piggy? You obese mfer with your swollen ankles. Are you for real? Right? Right now? Maybe blend your makeup before you start trying to drag me. Go try to find a fat picture of me.

[Kara Swisher]

Piggy.

[Jennifer Welch]

One doesn't exist. I would just go off. I would be horrible. Horrible. I would get arrested. Cash Patel would arrest me. Cara. I would be arrested. This Secret Service would arrest me.

[Kara Swisher]

I told you, I had the different. I had the different things.

[Jennifer Welch]

Far more reasonable than I am.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it wasn't reasonable. He'd say, quiet picnic. Yeah. I'd say, what? What? I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. And then he'd have to repeat it and I'd say, I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Can you say that again? I'd just make him say it over and over again so that it was just so creating a viral moment where he just. That would be even worse than just quiet piggy, like lots of quiet piggies. And then he might say big.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'd be too mouthy.

[Kara Swisher]

I just want him to do it more. I want him. If he's digging the hole, just let him keep digging. That's my feeling is just I was sort of surprised nobody said it. I could see the person being sort of taken aback, but no one around her said anything.

[Jennifer Welch]

I was really surprised at that. I was really, really surprised that nobody came to her defense. That his bullying, particularly of the press, has become so normalized that they just sit there and take that abuse, like Stockholm syndrome, the people that follow him around and it should never be normal.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they want access. They want access. Anyway, we have a couple more questions. We're going to talk about the midterms really quickly on the podcast. You've been talking a lot lately about how Democrats should not accept money from aipac. You just said that it's a hard line they shouldn't cross. It's an issue you talk about a lot. While it's true that a large majority of Democrats have an unfavorable view of the Israeli government and the war, the party's a lot more divided when it comes to support for Israel more broadly. A poll last month from the Chicago Council on Global affairs found that while more than two thirds of liberal Democrats think the US is supporting Israel too much, fewer than three in 10 moderate Democrats felt that way. So how do you talk about Israel in the campaign trail without alienating large swaths of this base? Because they certainly have reasons to be concerned about anti Semitism at the same time.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, I think that we have to have moral clarity about this, and we can't speak in any form of double speak. A Democratic politician should very clearly say we support Jewish people and we stand against all forms of bigotry, period. However, when it comes to the Israeli government, that should not be attached to Jewish people in the same way. Any criticism of the Trump administration doesn't mean an insult to Americans that didn't vote for him. There is a it's a very simple, elementary argument that you can criticize Donald Trump and that doesn't mean you're criticizing, criticizing Kara Swisher and Jennifer Welch. And as a person who believes in human rights, I welcome the criticism of my government. I wish Switzerland wouldn't have finally picked a side for the first time ever when they bent over and are making trophies for kinks to try to get the tariffs removed. I want countries and journalists to criticize this fascist regime that is kidnapping people. Often the streets in our country. The same way I think we should criticize Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu, this is according to Israeli press. He had cash driven into Hamas. And we need this whole thing. A spotlight needs to be shown on it. And they can't hold us emotionally hostage by telling us, if you criticize Israel, you're being anti Semitic. That is bullshit. That is emotional blackmail. That is incorrect. Incredibly toxic. We can see what they're doing. And the United States government is left behind on all of the other world's democracies and criticizing Benjamin Netanyahu. And we're supposed to be a beacon of democracy, but now we have this new alignment where the only time it seems like Kings gets excited is when he's in the presence of fascist dictators. Look at what just happened with Saudi.

[Kara Swisher]

But look mbs. That was a. That was a. Speaking of blowjobs, we also talked about Rob Mail trying to get Democrats to move away from, say, trans issues and saying things like, I'm done with discussion of bathrooms. There's Ezra Klein, who's been doubling down, who's gotten a real glow up, by the way, who's doubling down on the idea the Democrats should run candidates who oppose abortion. In some places it's necessary to win more House and Senate seats. Presumably these are the kind of candidates they think Democrats should run in places like Oakland, Oklahoma. What does it look like, a Democrat that wins in Oklahoma? I think of Laura Kelly of Kansas, for example, very popular Democrat. How do you do that? And without. I find a lot of whatever is doing is incredibly ridiculous compromises and very calculating in a way that's not genuine.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Kara Swisher]

Like trying to manipulate voters. But how do you do that?

[Jennifer Welch]

So the most recent gubernatorial campaign that we had in Oklahoma, you had come Governor Kevin Stitt, who ran. He's a Christian nationalist. He dedicated every square inch of the state to Jesus Christ.

[Kara Swisher]

I've met him.

[Jennifer Welch]

And very polite. Let me just say polite. And then he ran against this woman named Joy Hoffmeister. I can't. The last name. Anyway, I voted for, helped campaign for. And she ran as magalite as a Democrat. And it doesn't work because the indoctrination of people in red states to be Republican is very intense. And it's every bit as intense as to be a Christian. And they use this spiritual warfare type thing in churches to also say the Democrats are demons. They're Demon rats. So you have to offer something incredibly different and weaponize their faith for good and say, would Jesus want us to fund all of these billionaires? And so that's why I think a candidate like Talarico or Andy Beshear, who uses their faith in these instances, if you try to be a Magalite, you're not.

[Kara Swisher]

They want the O.G.

[Jennifer Welch]

That'S exactly right. So it doesn't work. And the problem with Ezra Klein throwing women under the bus is a person who just moved out of a state that has a total abortion ban. Cara. There are so many women and this disproportionately affects the poorest, which then becomes the black and brown people of my state that go to get an ultrasound for their pregnancy, 18, 20 weeks and there's some debilitating issue with the fetus. And they're told this baby is if you, whenever you deliver it, it's not going to live and there's nothing we can do for you. And so if they can afford it, they have to drive to a state where they can get health care.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

And if they can't afford it, then they're risking messing up all of their reproductive parts to deliver this baby and then watch it basically suffocate. And so when I hear, hear liberals that have never lived in a red state try to focus group and workshop how to deal with red states and part of that plan is to throw trans people under the bus or to throw women under the bus. It really pisses me off. It really, really, really pisses me off.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah. It's so, so compromising. Anyway, we in that I have two more questions. We had Senator Bernie Sanders on the show a few weeks ago and one of the things he talked about, Democratic Party had abandoned huge swaths of the country in places like West Virginia, said the party is virtually non existent. So what's the biggest thing the party gets wrong about the so called flyover states like Oklahoma? If you could sit down with the chair of the dnc, what would you tell him?

[Jennifer Welch]

If I could sit down with the chair of the DNC, I would say you have to start a 50 state strategy immediately. Even if you lose several cycles, it will make an impact. Look at the impact that Bernie Sanders, every time he's run for president he's lost, but his message permeates and he made the soil ripe for aoc. For Zoran Mamdani. I would tell them what's interesting about a state like Oklahoma and what's interesting about red state people is if you pull them Individually on things. Are you for gun control? Yes. Majority of red state Oklahomans would say this. Are you for a woman's right to choose? Yes. And so they need to start running progressive candidates that talk about values, progressive values. And they. I wish that they would send a Democrat to Oklahoma, rural Oklahoma, everywhere. And said, you have been lied to. You have been lied to and used by the Republican Party. I would start branding them as liars that exploit people's faith, which is the most diabolical thing you can do and the most unchristian thing to do.

[Kara Swisher]

Do.

[Jennifer Welch]

I would get so aggressive about rebranding this Republican grift that has happened in red states and, and speak to them and, and tell them what you're seeing. What has happened to you is real. You have been lied to. You have been gaslit by this Republican Party. I know it's hard to think about voting for somebody else, but why is Bernie Sanders, the atheist Jew? Why does he sound more like, like Jesus than Kevin Stitt? Why is that? And people are. I believe in people.

[Kara Swisher]

They're smart. I agree. I think voters are smart. I do. I think we talked down to them. I was in a red state and start, as I think I told you yesterday, was explaining what was going to happen to their coal mines and everyone else was making all these pretend things about how they were going to become software and Silicon Holler. And I was like, I said, this guy's going to replace you with a robot. He's not going to tell you that, but I'm telling you that. And so many people came up to me and they were like, you're a lesbian from San Francisco, but you just told the truth.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm like, exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

I was like. And I said, I don't really think that it matters. And I'm just telling you, you know, I'm telling you what time it is. And these people are lying to you. So. And I know they're your friends, but they're lying to you. Like, and, and it was. It does permeate it, Abs. Not with everybody, but it's. I mean, not like my mom, who's a tr. Who's like a Fox News propaganda propagandized lady, but every now and then it does. It gets through to her sometimes. I don't know, maybe not. She's too old. It doesn't really matter. So she's only got a few more elections in her. Like, so kind of it's. But it's really hard once they get that way. But they're certainly reachable. Okay, so you end your shows by playing a game with your guests called had it or hit it. So since you just moved to New York six weeks, I wanna play a game of. Would you'd rather. I've got a list of things specific to New York City. Here we go. You ready?

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

Mm.

[Kara Swisher]

Would you rather sit on a subway next to a rat or someone watching porn on their phone?

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, the porn. For sure. I would go porn.

[Kara Swisher]

You'd watch it yourself. He'd be like, interesting.

[Jennifer Welch]

I. I don't like rodents. I would go with the porn all day. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Eat a Papaya King hot dog or.

[Jennifer Welch]

A Zabar's black and white Papaya King hot dog.

[Kara Swisher]

Have you had one yet?

[Jennifer Welch]

No.

[Kara Swisher]

Go.

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay, maybe I will for lunch after we finish this.

[Kara Swisher]

86, where are you? Oh, you're in Chelsea. There's one down there.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, King. And get the drink.

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Be trapped in an elevator at Trump tower with Don Jr. Or a dirty Elmo from Times Square.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, I'm going Elmo for sure. I'm going with Elmo.

[Kara Swisher]

Have you met Dirty Elmo yet?

[Jennifer Welch]

No, I haven't.

[Kara Swisher]

Another thing, it's a great New York experience. Do not let them hug you by as hard as you can. Not let them touch you. Same thing with Don Jr. Okay. Get a drink and an extended hug with Andrew Cuomo or Eric Adams.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, my God. Sorry. Oh, that's a good one.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I try my hardest.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think I'm gonna go. Oh, I'm really splitting hairs here, Kara. Okay. I think I'm gonna go with Eric Adams.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

He wouldn't grow up your ass, right? Yeah, exactly, right? Allegedly. Allegedly. Oh, the Cuomo's are Matt at Kara Swisher because I had Curtis Lewa on stage. New York. They're mad.

[Jennifer Welch]

He's hilarious.

[Kara Swisher]

They're in Kentucky.

[Jennifer Welch]

He's hilarious.

[Kara Swisher]

Wasn't he? Yeah, get him on.

[Jennifer Welch]

He is hilarious.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I walked into that theater and my Brooklyn fans were like, what is he doing here? And I'm like, just wait. And then they were like, we love him. Like, I was like, see, I told you. Yeah, he is funny. He likes cats. That's all I need to know. Go to. Okay, two more. Go to Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade or the New Year's Eve ball drop.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm going to go with the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade because I think New Year's Eve is. I. It's past my bedtime. I like to be asleep by 9:00pm yeah, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Sorry, Anderson, you just insulted me.

[Jennifer Welch]

I know, Sweet Anderson came on and asked me a question.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, last one. Jump in the east river or eat a piece of pizza from the subway platform.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh my God. God. I think I'm going to go with East River.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh wow. Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Because then you can just go home.

[Kara Swisher]

You're never coming back from.

[Jennifer Welch]

You don't think so. E. Coli.

[Kara Swisher]

Mariska Hard is going to come have fish you out. Anyway, I love your show. I think it's great, Jennifer. And thank you so much.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you for having me, Kara. You're cool. I love talking with you and I hope that we continue our budding friendship to many more episodes and collabs on and off the air.

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely. Yep. We have to do it. We're like the nice version of Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson.

[Jennifer Welch]

Exactly. Thank you, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

Today's show was produced by Christian Castor, Roselle, Kateri Yocum, Michelle Aloy, Megan Burney and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Andrea Lopez Cruzado and Katherine Barner. Our N engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you get my favorite hot dog, the Papaya King hot dog. If not, you're blowing Bubba. Go Wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more. Mercury knows that to an entrepreneur, every financial move means more. An international wire means working with the best contractors on any continent. A credit card on day one means creating an ad campaign on day two and a business loan means loading up on inventory for Black Friday. That's why Mercury offers banking that does more all in one place place. So that doing just about anything with your money feels effortless. Visit mercury.com to learn more. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group, Column NA and Evolve bank and Trust members. FDIC support for the show comes from Charles Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

[Jennifer Welch]

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