Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher – Joe Manchin on Trump, the Dems & the Filibuster
Podcast: On with Kara Swisher
Host: Kara Swisher (Vox Media)
Guest: Former Senator Joe Manchin
Date: September 18, 2025
Episode Theme:
A searching conversation with former West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin about polarization, bipartisanship, shifting party politics, legislative gridlock, and his pragmatic centrism as detailed in his memoir, Dead Center: In Defense of Common Sense. Manchin reflects on the current political climate, the state of both parties, his defense of filibusters, and prospects for a centrist third party.
Main Discussion Sections
1. The State of American Polarization and Political Violence
[03:51–13:21]
- Recent Events: Kara opens by referencing recent acts of political violence, including the murder of activist Charlie Kirk, and asks Manchin whether his bipartisan approach feels outdated in today's climate.
- Manchin’s Perspective:
- Relationships in Congress are lacking: “First of all, we don't know each other, so you're not building relationships. Very few people live [in Washington] anymore.” — Manchin [04:36]
- Manchin describes efforts to bridge divides with bipartisan dinners on his boat, emphasizing the importance of personal connections.
- On American divisiveness: “Just the visceral attitude that people have towards the political dynamics today is just something I've never seen.” — Manchin [06:57]
- Reminisces about the failure to pass background checks after Sandy Hook, underscoring how political self-interest and fundraising take priority over cross-party relationships.
- Decries the normalization of hateful rhetoric and demonization: “Violence and murder are the tragic consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree day after day, year after year.” — Manchin [09:08]
Memorable Exchange:
- Kara challenges Manchin on political leadership:
- Kara: “Hope for his better angels isn't exactly a plan.”
- Manchin: “It's not exactly. It's the only plan I've got right now. I'm hoping that all of us … tone it down.” [13:21]
On Tech, Social Media, and Polarization:
- Manchin calls out “section 230” for shielding online hate and disinformation, laments the lobbying power of Big Tech, and calls for accountability: “We should hold the social platforms accountable for this visceral language. … AI coming out now. We have to hold people that allow this type of rhetoric accountable for the consequences.” [14:27]
2. Manchin’s Roots and Evolution in Politics
[19:54–29:46]
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Personal Background: Manchin discusses his family’s small business legacy and his ethos of “retail government”—treating constituents as customers.
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On Public Service: “It's a small price to pay for the great country we live in … someone's got to sacrifice.” [20:17]
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Reflections on the Democratic Party’s Decline in West Virginia:
- Traces the shift of West Virginia from blue to red to national Democrats losing touch with working-class voters and coal miners.
- Manchin: “How did you lose all the coal miners? How'd you lose all the factory workers?”
- On Obama-era climate policies and the national party: “You just can't leave a whole generation, society or a state behind. There was nothing to replace what he wanted to switch. There was no jobs coming and towns were shuttered.” [25:18]
- Explains why he resisted changing parties sooner: “I just thought for sure the Democrats can't be that far off the Richter scale. They've got to come back.” [26:44]
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On Federal Aid vs. Self-sufficiency:
- Kara notes the tension between “never asked for much” and the reality: “federal funds make up more than half of West Virginia's budget.”
- Manchin acknowledges: “We're a tremendous recipient of federal funds because of the poverty that we have.” [27:33]
3. Swing Vote and Bipartisanship in Washington
[28:08–34:19]
- Working With Both Parties:
- Manchin recounts being courted by Trump for a cabinet post and why he didn't accept.
- His centrism was not about party labels: “If I was so enamored with [the GOP], I'd have joined them. … You've got to be selling your soul to one side or the other. I don't agree.” [30:02]
- On Party Failings:
- Democrats: “They've never talked about … the debt of the nation.” [30:53]
- Republicans: “It was all sides [that increased debt] … Under Trump it went quicker … and now … I was totally opposed to what they were doing. Both parties.” [31:39]
- On Cap-and-Trade:
- Manchin describes why he shot Obama’s cap-and-trade bill in a campaign ad: “If you want to fix something, let's do it.” [26:17]
- Insight: Manchin's reluctance to switch parties stems as much from disappointment in Democrats as discomfort with GOP populism.
4. The Filibuster: Sacred or Obsolete?
[34:19–41:28]
- Swisher’s Challenge:
- Kara: “The filibusters are really the primary cause of … gridlock. … this isn’t the system the founding fathers intended.”
- Manchin’s Defense:
- Offers a constitutional and historical rationale for the filibuster emphasizing the Senate as a check on the majority:
- “Senate had basic. A senator always had the ability to speak forever … that's the filibuster.” [34:58]
- “It kind of put us together. It didn't let you just retreat to your corner and just fight to your death.”
- On Democratic pressure to end the filibuster: “If I would have voted to get rid of the filibuster, where would they be today with Donald Trump having the trifecta…” [37:17]
- Offers a constitutional and historical rationale for the filibuster emphasizing the Senate as a check on the majority:
Outside Expert Q&A:
- Rep. Greg Casar (TX) asks if Manchin regrets not carving out a filibuster exception for banning gerrymandering.
- Manchin: “Do I regret not getting rid of the filibuster? Absolutely not. It’s the Holy grail, okay?” [38:39]
- “You can’t make exemptions like a little bit of pregnancy. … You say, well, I can't carve this out. … Harry Reid tried to carve it out. He carved out the Supreme Court. … How long did that work?” [40:06]
- Manchin favors state-based reforms and ranked-choice/open primaries as the best route.
5. The Decline of Congressional Independence and the Rise of Executive Power
[41:28–45:33]
- On Congress' Submission to the President:
- Kara: “Do you think Congress remains an independent body?”
- Manchin: “I worry about the independency of the three branches, judicial, executive and legislative. … You almost need term limits anymore.” [42:04]
- Term Limits:
- Anecdote from a town hall: “If there were term limits, maybe we’d get one good term out of you.” [43:13]
- Manchin says he’s since become a supporter of legislative term limits to foster independence.
- On the 'King Trump' Critique:
- Manchin: “It concerns me … thinking that one person is above the law. … Last 40 [years] have been pretty rough—we're testing it.” [43:52]
- He emphasizes that checks and balances and the judicial branch still offer some constraint, but is unsettled by the expansion of executive power.
6. West Virginia’s Support for Trump & Economic Populism
[45:33–47:43]
- Manchin explains West Virginians' continued support for Trump, even when policies hurt the state: “You would like to think that people usually vote to pocketbooks or … services, one of the two.” [46:13]
- Points out the contradictions in Trump’s economic platform, expressing concern that federal cuts to food banks and education aren’t registering yet with voters.
- On Biden’s “Build Back Better” program:
- “You're going to change the psychic of the nation. How much more can my country do for me? I couldn't buy into that.” [46:33]
7. Is a Centrist or Third Party Viable?
[51:28–56:43]
- On registering as an independent and the future of American centrism:
- “The largest [group] is no party affiliation, which is what I belong to.” [51:57]
- He wishes for an “American independent party”—noting most people align between the extremes, but are shut out by the two-party duopoly.
- “I'd like to see an American independent party scare the bejesus out of the two.” [52:23]
- On “Dead Center” Being Dead:
- Kara (quoting Yeats): “Things fall apart, the center cannot hold… How do you get to the center then if you're in the dead center and it feels dead?” [54:04]
- Manchin: Polls show Americans are “ripe for a centrist.” But ballot access and fearmongering from the parties (“spoiler” narrative) make launching a viable centrist ticket nearly impossible.
8. Reflecting on Party, Identity, and Optimism
[56:43–59:47]
- Manchin's Identity:
- “I couldn't go home to the people I represented … having a D, a Washington D on my name… I'm representing you when they don't believe that the national Democratic Party is representing a rural, poor state.” [56:13]
- Refused to adopt an “R” either, believing in working “better from the center.”
- Future Leaders:
- Praises governors (Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear, Gretchen Whitmer), and on the GOP side, Mitt Romney, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins: “I pray for the sake of the Senate that Susan Collins wins again. … I don't think anyone's going to be able to replace Susan Collins.” [58:19]
- On Optimism:
- “I'm always, I've been an optimistic person. I'm a realist also … I think everyone has good in them. I don't think you go through the process of getting elected … and not have the desire to serve.” [59:00]
Notable Quotes
- On Political Grievance & Friendship:
- “It's easy to say no to someone you don't know.” — Manchin [07:17]
- On the Democratic Party’s Decline:
- “The Democrats that I knew and grew up with really believe in their heart of hearts right now that the Washington Democrats treat them as if they were returning Vietnam veteran. You’re not good enough, not clean enough, not green enough, not smart enough.” — Manchin [25:58]
- On Term Limits:
- “If there were term limits, maybe we’d get one good term out of you.” — Constituent to Manchin [43:13]
- On Third Parties:
- “I'd like to see an American independent party scare the bejesus out of the two.” — Manchin [52:23]
- On the Filibuster:
- “You can't make exemptions like a little bit of pregnancy.” — Manchin [40:06]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Polarization and Political Violence: [03:51–13:21]
- Manchin’s Political Roots and Democratic Party Shift: [19:54–29:46]
- Swing Vote & Senate Gridlock: [28:08–34:19]
- The Filibuster & Expert Question: [34:19–41:28]
- Congressional Independence & Executive Power: [41:28–45:33]
- West Virginia and Trump: [45:33–47:43]
- Third Parties and Centrism: [51:28–56:43]
- Optimism and Leadership Potential: [56:43–59:47]
Memorable/Must-Listen Moments
- Kara Swisher pressing Manchin for specifics about bipartisan solutions—and whether “hope for better angels” can be called a plan [13:21].
- Manchin’s defense of the filibuster as the “holy grail” [38:39], and reluctance to allow carve-outs.
- Conceding the real-world obstacles to third parties and the center’s collapse in American politics [54:04].
Tone and Language
- Conversation is frank, sometimes nostalgic, threaded with Kara’s skeptical humor and direct questioning (“Hope for his better angels isn’t exactly a plan”).
- Manchin comes across as earnest, conversational, and occasionally wistful; he uses phrases like “retail government,” “Holy grail,” and “duopoly.”
- Both reflect a deep cynicism about party establishments and lobbyist capture, but Manchin ends optimistically.