Podcast Summary: "Journalists or Creators? How Media Entrepreneurs Are Reshaping News"

Episode Details:

• Title: On with Kara Swisher
• Host: Kara Swisher, Vox Media
• Release Date: July 31, 2025
• Episode Title: Journalists or Creators? How Media Entrepreneurs Are Reshaping News
• Guests:
  • Katie Drummond: Global Editorial Director of Wired
  • Oliver Darcy: Founder of Status
  • David Jorgensen: Founder of Local News International

1. Introduction: Embracing Media Transformation [00:00 - 05:23]

Kara Swisher sets the stage by reflecting on her extensive career in media entrepreneurship, highlighting her journey from the All Things Digital Conference to founding Recode, and eventually launching her current podcast under Vox Media. She underscores the ongoing transformation in the media landscape, driven by the fragmentation of media channels and the rise of artificial intelligence (AI). Swisher introduces her guests—Katie Drummond, Oliver Darcy, and David Jorgensen—as key players innovating within both legacy and independent media sectors.

2. The State of Legacy Media: Consolidation vs. Decline [05:23 - 08:32]

Kara Swisher: "Are the reports of legacy media's death exaggerated or on its last legs?" ([05:23])

Katie Drummond counters the narrative of legacy media's imminent demise by framing it as a period of consolidation. She acknowledges that while major institutions like The New York Times are expanding their workforce, smaller publications struggling to find viable revenue and audience paths will likely disappear. Drummond emphasizes that legacy media isn't "dying" but rather evolving through mergers and acquisitions.

Oliver Darcy adds a nuanced perspective, suggesting that legacy media companies won't vanish entirely but will become smaller and leaner. He remarks, "I think they are starting to slip into irrelevance... they're not going to have the same footprint as during the glory days" ([07:02]). Darcy highlights how modern startups like Status operate more efficiently without the historical baggage of large, cumbersome organizations.

David Jorgensen echoes the sentiment, pointing out that academic institutions have yet to fully adapt to the changing journalism landscape. He notes, "Legacy media can survive, but it's kind of in this weird space of not knowing how to fill new types of jobs" ([08:32]).

3. Media Entrepreneurship and Independent Media Models [08:32 - 16:16]

Swisher transitions to discuss the entrepreneurial journeys of her guests, focusing first on Katie Drummond's efforts to revamp Wired. Drummond attributes Wired's resilience to its commitment to original journalism rather than optimizing content solely for search engine traffic. She explains the dual threats facing media: the "traffic apocalypse" from Google’s AI-generated content aggregations and the proliferation of AI-produced low-quality content diluting user experience.

Katie Drummond: "We have not been as susceptible to this traffic apocalypse as other publishers because we do original reporting" ([09:47]).

Drummond reveals that Wired has experienced "incredible triple-digit subscriber growth" over the past six months, translating into significant revenue increases. She discusses Wired's strategy to enhance subscription offerings to sustain and grow their audience.

Oliver Darcy shares the success of his newsletter, Status, which has rapidly grown to nearly 100,000 subscribers within 11 months. Darcy explains the challenges of relying on platforms like Google for traffic, where larger publications often overshadow smaller ones. He emphasizes that Status focuses on delivering authentic, human-centered journalism without tailoring content purely for SEO.

David Jorgensen discusses his transition from The Washington Post to founding Local News International, highlighting the importance of creative freedom and direct audience engagement. Jorgensen emphasizes building trust with his audience through consistent, high-quality content.

4. Overcoming Modern Media Challenges: Traffic Apocalypse and AI Splatification [16:16 - 30:11]

The discussion delves deeper into the "traffic apocalypse" and the impact of AI on media. Katie Drummond elaborates on how Google's AI aggregations are replacing traditional search links, causing significant traffic losses for publishers dependent on SEO. She criticizes the influx of AI-generated content that "dilutes" online platforms, asserting that original journalism remains the antidote.

Katie Drummond: "We are seeing just sort of like junkie generated garbagey stuff all over your Facebook feed" ([09:47]).

Oliver Darcy expresses frustration with how Google's algorithms prioritize larger, more established publications, effectively marginalizing independent voices. He underscores the importance of original reporting and maintaining a unique editorial voice to retain subscriber interest.

David Jorgensen highlights the balancing act between leveraging AI for efficiency and maintaining journalistic integrity. He emphasizes the role of AI in administrative tasks like copy editing but remains skeptical of its capability to replace nuanced human journalism.

5. Embracing Creator Culture in Journalism [30:11 - 43:40]

Swisher introduces the concept of "creatorfication" of journalism, a trend where journalists adopt creator roles to foster authenticity and direct audience connections. Oliver Darcy advocates for journalists embracing their roles as creators, stating, "People know that they're getting me, they're getting John, and we're calling things out" ([37:27]).

David Jorgensen discusses the integration of humor and personal authenticity in his content, suggesting that a strong personal brand can transcend political divides. He remarks, "My authenticity has always been my moral compass" ([38:34]).

Katie Drummond supports the shift towards creator culture, emphasizing the importance of direct engagement with audiences across multiple platforms. However, she cautions against the potential blurring of lines between journalists and creators, worrying that audiences might confuse authentic journalism with performative content.

Katie Drummond: "I would worry about audiences not understanding the difference between someone who plays a journalist on TV... as opposed to the actual journalist on TikTok" ([40:02]).

6. Navigating Legal Risks and Defamation Challenges [43:40 - 57:02]

The conversation shifts to the increasing threat of litigation against media organizations, particularly from high-profile figures like former President Donald Trump. Oliver Darcy discusses the financial and operational burdens of defending against defamation lawsuits, highlighting the limitations of insurance coverage for small publications.

Oliver Darcy: "Even just getting defamation insurance right now is extremely challenging for a small independent publisher" ([32:18]).

David Jorgensen shares his approach to mitigating legal risks through humor and careful content creation. He collaborates with legal experts to ensure compliance and protect against potential lawsuits.

David Jorgensen: "We are building trust long term... responsibly attributing AI use if you are using it" ([52:38]).

Katie Drummond emphasizes the necessity of robust legal frameworks within media organizations. She reflects on her experience with Gawker Media and the importance of unwavering commitment to truth, stating, "If it's true and it's newsworthy, we have an obligation to publish it" ([36:09]).

7. The Future of News Consumption: Trends and Predictions [58:12 - 57:02]

Panelists share their visions for the future of news delivery and consumption:

• Oliver Darcy predicts that newsletters will remain a vital communication channel, providing direct access to audiences without the interference of algorithms. He also foresees a continued rise in video content, with reporters becoming on-air talents in the next generation of television ([52:52]).

• David Jorgensen aligns with Darcy’s view on video, emphasizing adaptability to emerging platforms and technologies. He anticipates future iterations of current media formats, such as augmented reality or holographic presentations, necessitating continuous innovation ([53:52]).

• Katie Drummond envisions a future where news is consumed directly through various platforms without intermediary gatekeepers like Facebook or Google. She advocates for a diversified presence across inboxes, social media, and emerging technologies, ensuring journalists remain accessible and connected to their audiences ([54:23]).

8. Panel Advice and Final Thoughts [57:02 - End]

In a lighthearted segment, the panelists exchange advice tailored to each other's ventures:

• Katie Drummond encourages Oliver Darcy to maintain his strong editorial voice and diversify Wired links in his newsletter. She advises David Jorgensen to secure competent legal support to navigate potential lawsuits ([55:23]).

• Oliver Darcy advises Katie Drummond to empower her journalists to pursue entrepreneurial projects within Wired, reducing bureaucratic barriers that often stifle creativity and initiative ([57:00]).

• David Jorgensen suggests continuous adaptation and transparency in content creation, emphasizing the importance of trust and consistent audience engagement ([58:25]).

Kara Swisher concludes by reinforcing her optimism about the future of media, highlighting the innovative work of her guests and the importance of resisting negative narratives about the industry's trajectory. She emphasizes the potential for high-quality, subscription-based media models to thrive amidst evolving challenges.

Kara Swisher: "Don't let mama tell you what to do. You'll love this new era." ([59:03])

Conclusion: The episode "Journalists or Creators? How Media Entrepreneurs Are Reshaping News" provides an insightful exploration into the evolving landscape of media. Through candid conversations with industry leaders, Kara Swisher illuminates the resilience of legacy media, the rise of independent journalism, and the critical role of authenticity and innovation in navigating modern challenges. The panel underscores the importance of original reporting, strategic adaptation to technological advancements, and robust legal protections in sustaining quality journalism for the future.