Podcast Summary

On with Kara Swisher

Episode: Joy Reid on Dems, Gaza & Independent Media
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Joy Reid

Episode Overview

This episode features Kara Swisher in a candid, wide-ranging conversation with Joy Reid, former MSNBC anchor turned independent media entrepreneur. The discussion explores Joy’s abrupt firing from MSNBC, her jump to Substack and YouTube, the shifting landscape of cable news, Democratic Party strategy, the war in Gaza, and the challenges—and freedoms—of going independent. Don Lemon also joins with a pointed expert question about race and truth-telling in media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. MSNBC Firing and Cable News Landscape

• Joy’s Firing: Joy details the shock of her sudden termination from MSNBC, despite just having re-signed and recently won awards ([07:30]-[09:46]).
  • “I literally had just gotten re-signed…And then two weeks later, it was like, you're out of here. So I guess I was shocked, but not surprised.” — Joy ([08:30])
• Speculation on Causes: She attributes her firing partially to her outspoken coverage of Gaza, saying it caused tension with management, alongside typical corporate restructuring concerns ([07:30]-[09:46]).
  • “I had been, you know, hauled into enough HR meetings that were almost always about Gaza…It was very clear that…my coverage and position on it was not beloved inside the network.” — Joy ([07:32])
• MSNBC’s Rebrand to “Ms. Now”: Joy and Kara riff on the oddities of the network’s new branding and perceived attempts to appear “more American,” or even MAGA-friendly ([03:14]-[06:43]).
  • “It looks like Ms. Now to me…the logo, the red, white and blue, is giving a little Newsmax.” — Joy ([03:18])
• Network Pressures and Trump’s Influence: Joy and Kara discuss media moguls' fear of regulatory or political retaliation under Trump, especially about FCC oversight ([05:18]-[06:28]).

2. Transition to Independent Media

• Entrepreneurial Jump: Joy describes launching her Substack (Joy’s House) and YouTube channel after her departure ([10:46]-[14:00]).
  • “I think I was loyal to the audience and the brand…I loved MSNBC…I loved my show…my coworkers, my fellow anchors. These become your family.” — Joy ([11:36])
• Biggest Challenges: Handling every aspect of production, writing, tech, and business management, mostly with a tiny, often zero-person staff ([12:43]-[14:00]).
  • “You know what the biggest challenge for me is? Doing everything right with a much smaller team. Staff 0.” — Joy ([12:51])
  • “My time management skills are not great because I have serious ADHD. So…not sleeping and working 20 hours a day.” — Joy ([13:00])
• Differences from TV: The freedom to cover what and how she chooses—especially Gaza—with extended, candid interviews, without segment timing constraints or management oversight ([15:32]-[17:10]).
  • “I definitely feel like I can cover the things I wanna cover without worrying about getting the text from management. I could never cover Gaza the way we do on the Joy Reid show at the network.” — Joy ([15:32])
• Long-Form Content & Authenticity: Both Kara and Joy agree that the open-ended format and direct audience engagement make independent media more substantive and valuable ([16:34]-[16:45]).

3. Building an Independent Business Model

• Audience Growth: Joy notes explosive growth—from 9,000 to 168,000 Substack subscribers and 250,000+ YouTube subscribers ([17:10]-[18:45]).
• Revenue Streams & Transparency: Joy enjoys the straightforward nature of digital platforms, where viewership data and payouts are direct ([18:58]-[21:34]).
  • “The numbers are the numbers. You know exactly what they are…It’s not a diary, it’s this many people streamed your show.” — Joy ([18:58])
• Gender Wage Disparities: Joy reflects on the persistent pay gap for women in media, even at high levels ([17:43]-[18:45]).
  • “There are men who've done my job who make a lot more money doing the exact same job as me. That is just a fact…The disparities are just real.” — Joy ([17:43])
• Business Sustainability & Growth: Substack revenues funded the YouTube expansion; future growth hinges on reaching sponsor thresholds ([22:43]-[23:34]).
  • “Substack business took off first and funded the launch of the YouTube business…Now that I'm getting sponsors, I'm like, woo, we're really getting sponsors.” — Joy ([22:43])

4. The Future of Media Consumption

• Fragility of Traditional News: TV audiences are aging; young people consume content across platforms (YouTube, TikTok, Instagram), rarely returning to cable news ([25:04]-[27:18]).
• Fragmentation & Trust: Joy stresses that people want “choose your own adventure” news, trusting individual voices over corporate brands ([25:32], [27:07]).
  • “If I trust Kara, I'm gonna find her on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, wherever you are…people should get their info where they want it.” — Joy ([26:16])
• New Media Advantages: Transparent metrics and more direct relationships with audiences ([18:58]-[21:34]).

5. Race, Truth-Telling, and Independent Voice (Don Lemon Segment)

• Double Standards in Media Discourse: Don Lemon asks about Joy’s commentary on race, Trump, and Elvis, and whether independent platforms are now the only place to “tell the truth without sanding down the edges” ([27:37]-[33:04]).
  • “When a Black journalist says that [about Elvis and Trump], it’s called race baiting…If you were white, do you think you'd still be there?” — Don Lemon ([27:37])
• Joy’s Response:
  • “If I had said that on MSNBC…I definitely feel I would have gotten pushback from management. I would have been told I needed to apologize.” ([32:30])
  • “Was I the easiest person to get rid of and make Trump happy? Yeah, absolutely.” ([33:04])
  • “Was I fired because I was Black? No. But…coming from me…it hits different to MAGA.” ([33:04])

6. Democratic Party, Gaza, and Policy Critique

• Democratic Inertia & “Orderliness”: Joy argues Dems’ unwillingness to fight dirty has left them unable to counter increasingly fascist tactics from the GOP ([37:42]-[39:30]).
  • “Democrats think that this is a political problem…that you can stick to the rules…and somehow fascism will go away…That’s not the way fascism works.” — Joy ([37:42])
• Leadership for 2028 and Beyond: Discussion of possible Democratic contenders, with Joy emphasizing the need for authenticity and “Gavin Newsom energy”—but also “Pritzker’s money”—in a future candidate ([40:18]-[45:38]).
  • “It's going to have to be someone…Wakanda forever level…T’Challa but interesting.” — Joy ([42:14])
• Democratic Party & Gaza: Reid declares the party’s position “morally indefensible,” criticizing both the White House and Congressional leaders for inaction, and the suppression of progressive pro-Palestinian voices ([46:10]-[48:44]).
  • “The Democratic Party's position on Israel/Gaza is morally indefensible. …The ICJ has definitively stated that Bibi Netanyahu and his government are committing war crimes. They just are.” — Joy ([46:10])
  • “Young Democrats, or the squad, that have been standing…that this is wrong, you know, that apartheid is wrong. They punished them, they sidelined them.” — Joy ([47:47])

7. Future of Cable & Legacy Media

• Structural Limitations: Old media aren’t equipped to reach new, diverse, younger audiences ([50:07]-[53:24]).
  • “You're serving…an aging audience while…the younger audience is really not coming to you. And there's nothing you can do to bring them back.” — Joy ([50:29])
• Copycat Efforts Won’t Win Back Audiences: Joy is skeptical that networks can attract MAGA voters by shifting rightward, nor can they out-Fox Fox. Demography, not programming, is destiny ([51:49]-[52:20]).
  • “You can't bring those people over…You’re not gonna out-Fox Fox.” — Joy ([51:49])
  • “You cannot deport enough and beat up enough…to change that because they're already here born.” — Joy ([52:20])
• Advice for Media Entrepreneurs: Kara encourages focus and scaling up around what audiences love; Joy acknowledges the difficulty of juggling too much without burning out ([55:31]-[56:50]).

8. What’s Next for Joy Reid

• No Return to MSNBC: Joy is unequivocal about not returning—even if asked ([55:03]-[55:14]).
  • “No. Hell no. They're never gonna let me back in…I promise you they will never hire me back.” — Joy ([55:03])
• Documentary Projects: Expanding her media company, Joy is working on a Medgar Evers documentary and a series about mayors fighting fascism ([56:50]-[57:08]).
• The Power of Independent Media: Joy and Kara close by highlighting the ability for audiences to see more nuanced, authentic versions of media personalities when they control their own platforms ([57:38]-[58:00]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On media disruption: “Media is in a state of flux and personally I think it's a good thing.” — Kara ([00:00])
• On freedoms of going independent: “It’s so liberating that I can just cover the things I wanna cover. And I don't have to deal with that.” — Joy ([15:32])
• On audience trust and control: “The audience has taken control and they're not going to give it ever. And they shouldn’t.” — Kara ([27:07])
• On feminism in media: “There are men who've done my job who make a lot more money…it’s just a fact.” — Joy ([17:43])
• On the Democratic Party: “Democrats have lost the plot on where the power is. The power is in primaries.” — Joy ([41:03])
• On Joy’s media ethos: “If you're gonna churn it out, I want you to play my TikTok video...play my show.” — Joy ([54:18])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:14] — MSNBC’s rebranding to “Ms. Now,” and Joy on the culture of cable news
• [07:32] — HR tension at MSNBC over Gaza positions
• [11:36] — Why Joy didn’t leave MSNBC sooner
• [12:43] — The challenges (and exhausting nature) of independent media
• [15:32] — “Freedom” of content and long-form interviews as an independent
• [17:10], [18:58] — Subscriber and revenue growth, analytics
• [27:37] — Don Lemon’s question about race and media standards
• [37:42] — On Democrats’ “orderliness” and fighting fascism
• [46:10] — Democrats’ conflicting stance on Israel/Gaza
• [50:07] — If Joy were running legacy media: audience demographics, future of cable
• [55:03] — Joy unequivocally says she’s not returning to (Ms.) NBC
• [56:50] — Documentary projects and expanding independent ventures

Tone and Language

The episode is incisive, irreverent, personal, and witty—full of rapid banter, sharp critiques, and honest admissions. Both Kara and Joy blend serious analysis with playful candor, never shying from controversy or naming names.

For listeners: This episode is an essential listen for anyone interested in the future of journalism, media entrepreneurship, newsroom diversity, American politics, or simply how Joy Reid is thriving outside cable TV.