Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher – Laverne Cox on Meta, Conservatives and The Battle For Trans Rights

Release Date: January 13, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Laverne Cox, Emmy-Nominated Actress, Producer, and Activist

Introduction to Laverne Cox

Kara Swisher opens the episode by sharing her admiration for Laverne Cox, highlighting Cox’s impactful roles in television and film, including her groundbreaking performance in Orange is the New Black, her role in the Oscar-winning Promising Young Woman, and her production work on documentaries like Disclosure. Swisher emphasizes Cox's dedication to bringing trans narratives to the forefront of mainstream media and her recent ventures, including her new comedy series Clean Slate on Prime Video.

The Current State of Trans Rights in America

Timestamp: 04:29 – 07:05

The conversation shifts to the alarming rise in anti-trans legislation across the United States. Laverne Cox discusses the coordinated and well-funded efforts by right-wing groups to dehumanize the transgender community, which has led to significant legislative setbacks:

• Banning Gender-Affirming Care: "There are now 26 states banning gender-affirming care for young people" (04:29).
• Exclusion from Sports: "24 states are banning trans people from sports, despite there being very few trans athletes involved" (04:29).
• Bathroom Bills: Despite previous failures, bathroom bans have resurged, targeting both trans and cisgender women who do not conform to traditional gender norms (04:29).

Cox explains how these policies are part of a larger strategy to create a "permission structure" that facilitates the discrimination and dehumanization of trans individuals.

Impact of Political Campaigns on Trans Rights

Timestamp: 07:05 – 12:28

Swisher brings up the substantial financial investments in anti-trans advertisements during the Trump campaign, noting that over $215 million was spent on network TV alone. Cox elaborates on how these ads were designed to create an "us versus them" mentality, effectively isolating and scapegoating the transgender community.

• Dehumanization Tactics: "The Republican Party does cater to their base rhetorically, but it was good rhetoric for that" (09:13).
• Cultural War vs. Civil Rights: Cox argues for changing the narrative from "culture war" to explicitly framing trans rights as human and civil rights, thereby combating dehumanization at its core (09:08).

Cox criticizes Democratic strategies for being reactive rather than proactive and highlights the need for more robust advocacy to counteract right-wing propaganda.

Dehumanization and Its Consequences

Timestamp: 12:28 – 19:36

Delving deeper into the theme of dehumanization, Cox references Brene Brown’s work to explain how language and imagery can exclude entire groups from the moral community, making it easier to justify discrimination and violence against them.

• Historical Context: "We've seen dehumanization with immigrants, with black people, women... and now with trans people" (14:00).
• Abortion Debate: Cox extends the concept of dehumanization to reproductive rights, highlighting how discussing abortion in terms of weeks rather than as a debate about life dehumanizes the individuals involved (14:07).

Cox emphasizes that dehumanization underpins various forms of systemic oppression, connecting the fight for trans rights with broader struggles for social justice.

Violence Against Trans Individuals

Timestamp: 20:18 – 22:47

Cox addresses the heightened risk of violent crime faced by trans people, noting that trans individuals are four times more likely to be victims of violent crimes compared to their cisgender counterparts. This violence is exacerbated by laws that enforce transphobia, such as bathroom bans, which not only target trans individuals but also cisgender women who do not conform to rigid gender norms.

• Bathroom Monitors: "The problem with the bathroom issue is the enforcement... it's creating a system of 'gender police'" (20:18).
• Intersectionality: Cox links transphobia to other forms of discrimination, including misogyny and heterosexism, arguing that these are interconnected efforts to enforce a strict gender binary (20:55).

Myth Busting: Debunking Anti-Trans Narratives

Timestamp: 39:39 – 44:51

In a rapid-fire myth-busting segment, Cox systematically dismantles common misconceptions propagated by conservatives and others about transgender individuals:

1. Gender-Affirming Care Equals Surgery: False – "Gender affirming care often is just therapy, especially for a prepubescent child. It's just therapy" (39:39).
2. Hormones and Surgery Are Easy to Access: False – Cox explains the significant barriers and financial costs associated with accessing gender-affirming care (40:00).
3. Being Trans is a Trend Caused by Social Contagion: False – She cites studies showing that less than 1% of children access gender-affirming care, debunking the notion that being trans is a social fad (40:47).
4. Liberal Parents Forcing Kids to Be Transgender: False – Cox shares stories of conservative parents who support their trans children, illustrating that support transcends political ideologies (41:59).
5. Trans People Regret Taking Hormones or Surgery: False – She references studies indicating less than 2% of trans individuals regret their transition, compared to higher regret rates for common medical procedures like knee surgery (42:40).
6. Bans on Gender-Affirming Care Protect Kids: False – Cox argues that such bans harm trans youth by increasing suicidality and reducing quality of life (43:49).

Personal Reflections and Future Advocacy

Timestamp: 47:26 – End

Cox shares personal insights into the emotional toll of the ongoing attacks on the trans community. She discusses the importance of maintaining mental health and the possibility of leaving the country if conditions worsen, though she expresses deep patriotism for America and hope rooted in the resilience of the trans community.

• Advice for Parents: "If you can be stealth, it's safety" – Cox advises parents to prioritize the safety of their trans children in hostile environments (47:26).
• Hope Through Community: "What gives me hope are trans people and community" – She emphasizes the strength and solidarity within the trans community as a source of resilience (55:10).
• Future Projects: Cox touches on her upcoming series Clean Slate, describing it as a humanized portrayal of her character's journey, emphasizing the importance of nuanced and relatable representations of trans lives (49:40).

Conclusion

Kara Swisher and Laverne Cox conclude the episode by reflecting on the dire state of trans rights in the United States, balanced with themes of hope and community resilience. Cox underscores the necessity of humanizing trans individuals in media and politics to combat dehumanization and foster a more inclusive society.

Notable Quotes:

• Laverne Cox: "Dehumanization is at the heart of this... We are not done yet in fighting for our humanity." (Various timestamps)
• Kara Swisher: "Understanding someone's humanity means loving them anyway, flaws and all." (53:00)
• Laverne Cox: "We have to humanize individuals and change the language from culture war to human rights." (09:08)

Takeaways:

• The trans community faces a significant backlash, with increased legislation targeting trans rights.
• Dehumanization through media and political rhetoric facilitates systemic discrimination and violence.
• Myths about transgender individuals are widely debunked by factual evidence and studies.
• Humanized and nuanced representations in media are crucial for combating stereotypes and fostering empathy.
• Resilience and community solidarity remain central to the ongoing fight for trans rights and inclusion.

For those interested in understanding the complexities of trans rights and the strategies needed to support the community, this episode offers a comprehensive and heartfelt exploration led by one of the foremost voices in transgender advocacy.