Leaving X? Where Next? On Bluesky, Threads and the “Fediverse” - On with Kara Swisher

Transcript

Kara Swisher (0:00)

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Nilay Patel (1:45)

Eli oh my God, dude. Wow. Look at the stash.

Mike Isaac (1:48)

What's going on?

Kara Swisher (1:50)

I know. Louis has a stash like that.

Mike Isaac (1:52)

Really? Every time I get on, like a video thing, there's a minute of someone, like, laughing and saying, what is on your face?

Nilay Patel (1:59)

No, I. You should have done this years ago.

Kara Swisher (2:01)

There's no.

Nilay Patel (2:01)

There's no laughing here.

Kara Swisher (2:02)

This is.

Nilay Patel (2:02)

You have found yourself.

Kara Swisher (2:04)

It's on. Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. This is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher and you can find me on Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, even on LinkedIn. But don't go looking for me on X. I'm out. I got on X in 2007, if you can believe it. I was one of the earliest people there. I wrote some of the earliest stories about the company as it shifted from a company called Odeo into what was Twitter. And I've known the company for a very long time through all its ups and downs, and it's had a lot of them. I love the platform when I started using it because it was exciting, it was interesting, it was real time, it was news in real time. I thought it was best at breaking breaking stories, finding people you didn't agree with necessarily and meeting people. Really, it was a really fun platform. I didn't like Facebook as much and I really liked the quickness soon became very addictive. It started to sour for me some, pretty much after Elon bought it. I have called it a Nazi porn bar. My final straw was all the anger and really nasty stuff that was being uploaded to me by blue checks. I had an early blue check. I was one of the early recommendations on Twitter and it just was people who felt they could say anything and they can't do it in real life and so they shouldn't be able to do it. To me on Twitter, it wasn't a question of disagreeing with me. It was really vile stuff and it was bad for my health. And not just that. I just didn't want to listen to these idiots and so I got off of it. I'm not alone, by the way. People have been calling it the Exodus. More than 280,000 people worldwide left X the day after the election. Many of them have switched to mainly posting on established platforms like Instagram, which is growing. Some have joined more nascent sites like Threads and also Bluesky. This new little contender who is a very different point of view about moderation and friendliness and making it sort of a nicer place to be. Sort of like Twitter used to be before it all went south. And there's a lot of people who aren't sure where to go. There's other choices like LinkedIn and Mastodon and so many others. So today we're going to go deep on what's happening at X, what kind of communities and cultures are emerging on these different social media sites, and how some are fundamentally different and what it could mean for the role that social media plays going forward. We're also going to talk about the end of being monolithic. There are many a lot of different fractionalization of social media, something I've talked about for the past two years. And so I found really great guests to discuss this. They are Nilay Patel, editor in chief of the Verge and host of the Decoder podcast. New York Times tech correspondent Mike Isaac, wonderful reporter, used to work for me and the Wall Street Journal tech reporter Alexa Korse, who's done some really terrific reporting on what's happening in this very interesting space. It's getting very innovative and Interesting. Now, our question this week comes from former CNN anchor, now YouTube anchor Don Lem. He has left X for good. Don is also suing Elon Musk for refusing to pay him over a million dollars after a content deal between the two imploded after Lemon's contentious interview with Musk earlier this year. So obviously that's going to be interesting. So let's get to it.

Summary

On with Kara Swisher: Leaving X? Where Next? On Bluesky, Threads and the “Fediverse”

Release Date: November 25, 2024

Introduction

In this episode of On with Kara Swisher, host Kara Swisher delves into the significant migration of users from X (formerly known as Twitter) to emerging social media platforms such as Bluesky and Threads. Joined by esteemed guests Nilay Patel, Editor-in-Chief of The Verge; Mike Isaac, a tech correspondent for The New York Times; and Alexa Korse, a former Wall Street Journal reporter, the conversation navigates the evolving landscape of social media, the rise of federated networks, and the future implications for digital communication.

1. The Exodus from X

Kara Swisher opens the discussion by sharing her personal departure from X in February, citing increased toxicity and personal attacks as primary reasons. She mentions, “I have called it a Nazi porn bar,” reflecting her disillusionment with the platform under Elon Musk’s leadership [02:04].

Notable Quotes:

Kara Swisher [02:04]: “I have called it a Nazi porn bar. My final straw was all the anger and really nasty stuff that was being uploaded to me by blue checks.”
Nilay Patel [07:26]: “I quit X ages ago. I actually took a break from what I called algorithmic media. It was just. I could feel that it had changed me and Elon buying X and taking it to what it became.”

Swisher highlights the broader trend of users leaving X, noting that over 280,000 individuals worldwide exited the platform the day after the election, seeking more congenial environments on platforms like Instagram, Threads, and Bluesky.

2. Emerging Platforms: Bluesky and Threads

The conversation shifts to Bluesky and Threads, exploring their growth and unique features. Bluesky, with its federated approach, is praised for fostering a more controlled and friendlier community. Conversely, Threads, integrated within Meta's ecosystem, leverages Instagram's massive user base for rapid growth.

Notable Quotes:

Mike Isaac [08:15]: “Blue sky is the one that at least for the news gathering function of what I do is going to be more useful.”
Nilay Patel [20:44]: “BlueSky seems to be leaning into. You can customize all this yourself. And you can have control of the experience.”

Alexa Korse mentions her limited personal use of these platforms, emphasizing their role in her professional activities: “I am more of a lurker on others. But like many people, I recently redownloaded bluesky. Threads I find has been useful for following other tech journalists” [06:56].

3. Content Moderation and Policy Changes

A significant portion of the episode addresses content moderation on X, especially following Elon Musk’s acquisition. The guests discuss how algorithmic shifts and policy changes have led to a surge in politically charged and toxic content, prompting users to seek alternatives.

Notable Quotes:

Kara Swisher [12:04]: “You have very little recourse. And if you want to bring any sort of challenge to us, we're going to do that in a way that stacks the deck for us.”
Nilay Patel [40:46]: “They are all still moderating, right? There's a bunch of stuff they have to do.”

Alexa and Nilay shed light on X’s strategy to manipulate content visibility, particularly favoring right-leaning political posts, which has alienated a significant portion of the user base. Swipe emphasizes the potential dangers of such manipulation: “It's a very dangerous place for the First Amendment right now” [45:18].

4. The Fediverse and Decentralized Social Networks

The discussion transitions to federated social media networks, or the Fediverse, highlighting Bluesky’s efforts to create interoperable protocols that allow users to own and control their content across platforms.

Notable Quotes:

Nilay Patel [29:20]: “The core idea is, we should all be able to publish and receive engagement freely the way that we can do with email.”
Kara Swisher [30:19]: “Most people are not going to do that. So Threads is approaching it very interestingly.”

The guests debate the practicality and user experience of decentralized networks, noting that while the concept is promising, mainstream adoption remains limited due to complexity and lack of comprehensive implementation.

5. Financial Implications and Sustainability

Addressing the financial health of emerging platforms, the panel discusses how Bluesky, Threads, and Meta are navigating monetization strategies. Bluesky’s approach includes selling user experience and developing B2B SaaS products, whereas Meta leverages its vast advertising network to sustain and grow Threads.

Notable Quotes:

Alexa Korse [55:57]: “It's Elon's business empire. As far as we know, we don't get a lot of detail about their financials these days.”
Mike Isaac [56:35]: “They're rolling in cash and they then Wall Street loves that every time they build a new product and can scale it very rapidly.”

Nilay raises concerns about Bluesky’s financial sustainability, pointing out the challenges of competing against established giants like Meta: “They have a long way to go. I think Meta is missing a huge opportunity Threads because getting away from live in reverse Cron means they can't go attack the market that Twitter had won” [57:48].

6. The Future of Social Media: Fragmentation and Echo Chambers

In the concluding segment, Kara and her guests ponder the future trajectory of social media as fragmentation intensifies. They suggest that users are gravitating towards niche communities that align with their interests and values, reminiscent of traditional local media landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

Nilay Patel [61:45]: “I think this is actually just a sort of natural rebalancing... communities. People want their communities. And communities are pretty disparate.”
Mike Isaac [60:53]: “I think people just kind of your experience with Twitter, Cara, it's like they don't like to be screamed at or told that they're wrong all the time.”

The panel expresses skepticism about the emergence of a singular dominant platform replacing X, forecasting a continued rise in specialized and insular social networks.

Conclusion

On with Kara Swisher provides an incisive analysis of the shifting social media landscape, highlighting user dissatisfaction with X and the rise of alternative platforms like Bluesky and Threads. Through expert insights, the episode underscores the complexities of content moderation, the promise and challenges of federated networks, and the broader implications for community building and information dissemination online. As social media continues to fragment, the conversation anticipates a future where diverse, specialized platforms coexist, catering to the nuanced preferences of a discerning user base.

Notable Moments:

User Migration Patterns: Alexa Korse discusses the professional versus personal use of new platforms, highlighting Bluesky’s appeal for journalists [06:56].
Policy Changes Impact: Nilay Patel elaborates on how X's terms of service changes are strategically designed to favor Musk’s interests [13:43].
Fediverse Explained: Nilay delves into the technical aspects of decentralized networks and their potential impact on user control and content dissemination [29:20].
Financial Sustainability: Mike Isaac contrasts Meta’s robust financial backing with Bluesky’s startup challenges, emphasizing the market dynamics at play [56:35].

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing readers with a thorough understanding of the current trends and future directions in the realm of social media platforms.