On with Kara Swisher: MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace on Iran & the Limits of Trump’s Power
Release Date: June 19, 2025
In this compelling episode of "On with Kara Swisher," host Kara Swisher engages in an in-depth conversation with Nicolle Wallace, a seasoned political commentator and former White House Communications Director under President George W. Bush. Currently the host of MSNBC’s "Deadline White House" and "Best People" podcast, Wallace offers her astute perspectives on the tumultuous landscape of American politics, media dynamics, and international affairs.
Introduction to Nicolle Wallace and Her Ventures
Kara Swisher begins by welcoming Nicolle Wallace to the podcast, highlighting her extensive background in political communications and her ventures into media hosting. Wallace shares her initial apprehensions about launching her podcast, Best People, expressing vulnerability about stepping into the podcasting realm:
"I feel like such a beginner and I know all the self-help is, you know, try something new... I was mortified." ([03:37])
Despite early reservations, Wallace emphasizes the value of authentic conversations, describing how Best People diverges from traditional political discourse to foster genuine community connections.
The Genesis of "Best People"
Wallace explains the inspiration behind naming her podcast "Best People," drawing a subtle nod to former President Trump's branding promise to appoint the "best people" to his administration:
"I thought it was Trump's best brand in '16... he promised to bring in the best people." ([05:12])
She humorously reflects on Trump's later appointments, suggesting that the notion of "the best people" was compromised, signaling the end of that administration's initial promise.
Assessing Trump's Foreign Policy and Military Engagement
A significant portion of the discussion centers on the escalating tensions between Israel and Iran. Wallace offers a nuanced analysis of President Trump's foreign policy approach, particularly his aversion to direct military intervention despite advocating for displays of military strength:
"He seems to have an aversion to military intervention. He likes to talk about displays of military might." ([08:20])
Wallace juxtaposes Trump's strategies with historical precedents, questioning his commitment and capacity for a coherent foreign policy:
"I think his language around getting... ending a war seems to be about taking Putin's side." ([08:20])
She expresses concern over Trump's limited foreign policy apparatus, suggesting that Trump's unpredictable reflexes could lead to precarious international situations:
"I am waiting along with the rest of the world to see what his reflexes are." ([09:20])
Domestic Politics: Republican Party Dynamics and Policy Decisions
The conversation shifts to domestic issues, particularly President Trump's decision to deploy the National Guard and Marines to Los Angeles in response to protests. Wallace critiques the political calculus behind such actions, noting the public disapproval and the potential harm to Trump's image:
"He is choosing unpopular things with more popular things... That’s a terrible story for Trump." ([16:47])
Wallace also delves into the Republicans' reconciliation bill, highlighting its unpopularity and the severe consequences it poses, including cutting Medicaid for 16 million Americans and increasing national debt by nearly $4 trillion:
"The result of this bill... is that 16 million people lose their health insurance." ([23:01])
She warns of the long-term political ramifications for Republicans, emphasizing the disastrous impact on their standing:
"The politics are disastrous in the near term and the long term for Republicans." ([23:57])
The Escalation of Political Violence
Wallace addresses the alarming rise in political violence, citing recent tragic events such as assassination attempts on public figures and the tragic shooting at the Minnesota state legislature. She contrasts the unified condemnation of violence when it targets Trump with the celebratory rhetoric from certain Republican factions against opposing figures:
"When the attempt on Trump's life, there was universal condemnation and relief... On the other side, there's what you just described." ([25:22])
She laments the erosion of bipartisan solidarity in the face of political violence, referencing the loss of moderating voices like John McCain and Mitt Romney within the Republican Party:
"The Republicans have lost their way. It's become this dysfunctional codependency... " ([27:14])
Media Resistance and Corporate Challenges
A critical segment of the discussion revolves around Trump's adversarial relationship with the media. Wallace recounts her personal experiences being targeted by Trump's attacks and praises the resilience of independent media outlets in withstanding political pressures:
"I worked for a person who protected me... It's just a long way of saying... MSNBC has withstood the pressure." ([37:04])
She highlights the importance of leadership within media organizations in preserving journalistic integrity amidst increasing hostility:
"They have to be everywhere... they should be in every podcast that will have them." ([39:37])
Breaking Echo Chambers and Fostering Community
Responding to an expert question, Wallace discusses strategies to avoid creating echo chambers, advocating for more inclusive and porous communities:
"Make your community more inviting, pull more people in and visit other people's." ([44:04])
She emphasizes the role of shared experiences and live interactions in bridging political divides, suggesting that politics should intertwine with everyday life rather than dominate media narratives.
Advice for Civic Engagement and Maintaining Democracy
In conclusion, Wallace offers practical advice for individuals concerned about the state of democracy. She underscores the importance of nurturing personal relationships and supporting one's community as foundational steps to counteract societal overwhelm:
"Take care of your people... taking care of the things you can control is, to me what has been advice that I was given." ([51:08])
Wallace encourages listeners to remain vigilant and engaged, highlighting the urgent need to protect democratic norms and resist the drift towards autocracy.
Final Thoughts and Future Outlook
As the episode wraps up, Wallace reflects on the rapid erosion of democratic standards under Trump's administration, expressing astonishment at the speed and efficiency with which authoritarian tendencies have taken root:
"Trump has done so many of the things they warned and he didn't have to... he has successfully moved the country away from our Democratic norms." ([32:56])
She remains cautiously optimistic, acknowledging the resilience of democratic institutions while recognizing the formidable challenges that lie ahead.
This episode offers a thorough exploration of the intersection between media, politics, and societal norms, providing valuable insights for listeners navigating the complexities of contemporary American democracy. Nicolle Wallace's seasoned analysis, coupled with Kara Swisher's incisive questioning, makes for a rich and engaging discussion that underscores the importance of community, resilience, and informed engagement in safeguarding democratic values.