← On with Kara Swisher
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- [00:13]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. Today I'm talking to Nicole Wallace, a White House Communications Director during the George W. Bush administration and a senior Advisor to John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign. She is now the host of Deadline White House on MSNBC and the host of a new podcast called the Best People. I recently went on the Best People cause I am one of the best people clearly and I actually had a great time. I've always been a fan of Nicole's and think she's a very canny and smart observer of politics and a lot of other things. On this podcast I'm turning the tables on her and we're gonna talk about the media, business, turmoil in the Middle east, domestic politics, the Republican Party and her experience on John McCain and Sarah Palin's 2008 campaign and the challenges facing journal and civil society. Our expert question comes from Charlie Sykes, the host of to the Contrary podcast and co founder of the Bulwark and author of how the Right Lost Its Mind. So stick around. Support for this show comes from ServiceNow who are enabling people to do more fulfilling work. The work they actually want to do. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. But now with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of your business. It hr, customer service and more. And that means your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started@servicenow.com AI agents support for the show comes from Trinet. Getting a business off the ground is no easy task and there's no substitute for a tight knit trustworthy team. That's why Trinet wants to empower your small and medium sized businesses with industry leading HR solutions from payroll to compliance to access to benefits. You can join innovative and purpose driven companies like Good Culture, Van Leeuwen, Ice Cream and more who trust Trinet to provide industry leading HR solutions so your team can stay focused on what matters most. Learn more@trinet.com Vox to see what's possible for your business. That's T R I-N-E-T.com Vox to get started. Trinut your path Their Purpose Support for On with Keraswisher comes from Sophos. Cybersecurity doesn't have to come with sacrifices or trade offs with Sophos. No matter your business's size. You get enterprise grade technology and real world experience. Always in sync, always in your corner. Sophos native AI technologies evolve with every threat and their experts are ready 24 7, 365 with their managed detection and response services to stop threats before they strike. And you can manage all of your security alerts, configurations and other security projects through the Sophos central platform. So don't sacrifice your peace of mind to grow your business. Learn more@sophos.com it is O Nicole, thanks for coming on on.
- [03:32]
Nicole Wallace
Thanks for having me. I love this.
- [03:34]
Kara Swisher
Good. I'm glad. So welcome to the podcast game. Are you liking it?
- [03:38]
Nicole Wallace
I feel like such a beginner and I know all the self help is, you know, try something new, but I what am I going to try new? You know, and this is really new. And the night before the first episodes drop, I tried to pull them. I listened to them and I thought they were terrible and I tried to yank them.
- [03:56]
Kara Swisher
Oh wow.
- [03:57]
Nicole Wallace
But it was too late.
- [03:58]
Kara Swisher
Little TV diva move.
- [03:59]
Nicole Wallace
I just was so embarrassed. I thought, oh my God, it's so much of me oohing and ahhing and talking. And I was mortified. Right. But I think that might be part of it. You learn in front of everybody and maybe that's what people come along for.
- [04:13]
Kara Swisher
Absolutely. They want to meet you. It's a marathon that'll give you that next piece of advice. You did ask me on your show about that and you can't just stop. It's an endless maw of content creation that I think a lot of people in media aren't used to. But for people that don't know, you're best known for Deadline White House, the political news program on MSNBC you recently launched. This we're talking about is the Best People, a podcast where you have personal conversations with, I would say a listers. But I was on it. But it was Jason Bateman. You've had Sarah Jessica Parker, NBA coach Doc Rivers, which I really liked actually.
- [04:46]
Nicole Wallace
He's so cool.
- [04:47]
Kara Swisher
He's really interesting. So talk about why you decided to call it the Best People.
- [04:52]
Nicole Wallace
Well, the real reason is I thought it was Trump's best brand in 16. I think that the way some people who liked him and you and I talked about this in our conversation, they liked the celebrity, but if a little kernel of them worried that, well, maybe he doesn't know how to run the government, he promised to bring in the best people.
- [05:12]
Kara Swisher
Right. So you're making a little joke there.
- [05:14]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And when he tapped Mattis and Ketley and people that seemed trusted. He seemed to fulfill that. When he won the second time and tapped Matt Gaetz to be Attorney General, it was clear that the best people was over. Right. Like the season for the best people had passed.
- [05:29]
Kara Swisher
Don't need the best people.
- [05:31]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I thought I would reappropriate what I actually thought was a good branding effort on his part and platform. The people who really are the best people to me.
- [05:41]
Kara Swisher
But I'm curious, why did you start with a human interest podcast? Everyone's gonna expect you to do another deadline. I guess that would be the first pitch. I would guess you got.
- [05:50]
Nicole Wallace
The funny thing is, we didn't have any parameters. I mean, you and I talked politics, we talked podcasting, we talked parenting. You know, people talk about whatever's on their mind, and there's not a lot of production. You know, you can't make someone talk about what they want to talk about. And you can't keep a topic off balance. It's too long and it's too honest. And you're just, you know, two people with your headphones on. So the conversation is all veered. Politics. But people weren't booked because of a political moment.
- [06:21]
Kara Swisher
Right. You're in a media environment. And this is something from a piece that Charlie Wurtzel wrote today. The right wing media complex has disproportionate presence and is populated by extreme personalities who have no problem embracing nonsense AI imagery and flagrantly untrue reporting that fits their agenda. It's not just in politics, it's in health. It's in all kinds of things. Is that harder to do? Human interest, to get people to cause? Presumably you want a range of people right? In the best. People that aren't necessarily people you're in agreement with.
- [06:50]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, look, we picked people who I felt like helped unlock something that helped me get through the last nine years. And I think I said this to someone the other day, that if we're going to get through this moment and we look back and we wonder, what was this about? I think it was about reconnecting all of us to our communities. And I think that's. And I think that's, you know, to your point and to your sort of model and your leadership in this space, I think that's why it works. It doesn't just work. I think that's why it soars. And I love what I do at msnbc, but I think I wanted more, and I think people want more, and I think they want to feel like they're sitting in A community with you and you're not reading a teleprompter and it's not going to stop when you have to go to break and they get a little deeper if they want.
- [07:38]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it's interesting. Well, so far so good. We're going to get to hard. We'll talk a little bit about media in a minute, but let's talk about hard news right now because this is what you're steeped in every day. So Israel began bombing Iran last Friday. Although Iran is retaliating, it's also signaling, it's also ready to de escalate. But Israel has aerial superiority over much of Iran and little incentive to step back. When Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the Iranian people directly last week, he said he was, quote, clearing the path for you to achieve your objective, which is freedom. You were White House communications director for George Bush, George W. Bush during the Iraq war. Talk a little bit about that experience. When you're looking at this, obviously you bring expertise here, specifically in the context of a potential regime change. Talk a little bit about how it applies to this situation.
- [08:21]
Nicole Wallace
Look, I think all the time about when they'll miss their credibility with the whole country. Right. Trump has incredibly high negatives and lack of trust and approval from more than half of the American people. And when you miss it most is when the country has to speak with one voice. And it's why the old sort of politics end at the water's edge used to apply because you had a national interest in the whole country being behind your leader on the foreign policy stage. And that started to go away with Bush and Obama as well. But I think it's a scary moment and probably scariest for people living in Israel and Iran. And I don't know if it's just a sign of my own age, but I just keep thinking about, and I think about this when I cover the Ukraine war. Think about being a parent and worrying about keeping your family safe with these two adversaries fighting about missile and aerial dominance. That's a military term in reality lives. It's people terrified in their, in their own homes. And I don't know much about what Trump is going to do from day to day, but I do think there's a pattern over nine years where he seems to have an aversion to military intervention. He likes to talk about displays of military might. That's what the parade was about. But I find his language around getting, I mean, everything about Russia and Ukraine seems to be about taking Putin's side. Right. And about Ending a war. So I am waiting along with the rest of the world to see what his reflexes are because he doesn't have a big foreign policy apparatus. He doesn't seem to have the capacity for a policy process. I think that what he says will be what he thinks, and I think we'll have a sense of it really soon. I think it's probably a very precarious feeling. I've been watching the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu more closely than anything because I think when he started to lose a little bit of interest in Putin, I wondered if Netanyahu, who would be next? And he didn't lose interest in Putin, but his first trip was to be celebrated by all these Mideast leaders.
- [10:26]
Kara Swisher
Right. And not Netanyahu.
- [10:27]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And he didn't go to Israel. And in his first term he went to Saudi Arabia and Israel. So I think it's an open question how much affinity he has for Bibi Netanyahu. And I think it's an open question how much appetite he has for getting involved really at all.
- [10:40]
Kara Swisher
Well, now Iran is a heavily secured uranium enrichment site called Fordo that's built into a mountainside. Everyone seems to know this now. Only the US has specialized bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers and have aircraft to drop them. Now MAGA is really split. Hawks like Lindsey Graham says America should go all in. Well, isolationists like Tucker Carlson have called those encouraging Trump to approve airstrikes. Warmongers. He's said a lot of things this week and Trump has slapped back at him. Of course, explain the trade offs for Trump and more importantly the US in deciding whether to help Israel. It's a lot of mixed messaging. If you're messaging this, what is happening? Do you think it's just complete id?
- [11:17]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, if you're. So messaging emanates from a policy. And I messaged for a president for whom the policies were very unpopular, but the ideology was very clear. Yeah. So I don't. Honestly, I don't. I mean, the bunker buster bombs are what you're talking about. And I think that's the debate on the right around which they're split, but I think they're split on something more that's gonna cleave that movement open at an emotional level. I mean, I think there's a place where Trump is so right, he's left. Where you get some of these far left guys that become MAGA characters is around non interventionalism. And so I don't know he keeps his coalition together at all. If I were him making a calculation. And if I were a foreign country trying to make a bet, I would bet that he doesn't do all that Israel wants him to do. Knowing that the elected Republican officials have sacrificed their identity and their ideals and their values from the moment he was on that Access Hollywood tape, through good people on both sides, through Big Beautiful Bill, through all the they've never abandoned him because he doesn't share their principles or policies. So if I were him, and he had to decide, you know, where to compromise, I would guess that Trump would feel most confident abandoning the elected Republican establishment.
- [12:40]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute. Support for on with Keraswisher comes from Deleteme. We all know the tangible items that hold value to us. Things like your car, clothes and sentimental keepsakes. But what about the intangibles? Things like your data? There's a lot of value there and data brokers make a profit off of it. But DeleteMe wants to protect it. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. They send you regular personalized privacy reports showing what info they found, where they found it, and what they removed. I've actually been using DeleteMe for a while now and I have to say it's really shocking how much of my information is out there and how it is compiled by various people. A lot of it is actually also inaccurate. So to put it simply, DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping out you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Cara and use the promo code Cara at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to JoinDeleteMe.com Cara and enter the code Cara at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Kara code Kara it's impossible to find more time in the day until now. With HubSpot's suite of AI powered tools, you can get more done way faster, speed up your lead generation and create attention grabbing, lead driving, quota crushing campaigns in an instant which will give you more than enough time to listen to podcasts like this one. HubSpot Impossible Growth Made Impossibly Easy get started today@HubSpot.com AI support for this show comes from NPR'S Planet Money. Tariffs, egg prices, food delivery. What do they all have in common? It's all about the money. Economics is everywhere in everything, fueling our lives even where we least expect it. If you're curious to learn something new and fascinating about economics every week, check out the Planet Money podcast on npr. Planet Money isn't your typical economics show. It takes the big, complicated ideas behind the economy and makes them make sense through real human stories, not dry theories. Whether it's the job market, the stock market, or why your groceries cost more this week, Planet Money unpacks it all with clarity and curiosity. With episodes around 30 minutes, it's economics made accessible, entertaining, and actually fun. It's econ for the rest of us and the kind of show that gives you something interesting to talk about at your next dinner party. Recent episodes I've listened to include topics like Trump's crypto interest, the economics of government funding at universities, and the secret world behind text message scams. I've listened to NPR since, I don't know, 40 years now, and I listen to shows like Morning Edition, of course, and All Things Considered, but it's always given me really great information in a way that is fun to listen to and is fascinating. Tune in to Planet Money every week for entertaining stories and insights about how money shapes our world, stories that can't be found anywhere else. Listen now to Planet Money from npr. Let's pivot to domestic issues. This past week there were over 2000 no kings protests across the country. You cover them. The rallies came after Trump sent the National Guard and active duty Marines to Los Angeles in response to anti ice protests that featured sporadic violence that did not exist. But it was not, you know, it was not what they were that they're putting out in the right wing arenas. Surveys show most Americans disapprove of Trump's response in la, but Trump seems to want to bait protesters into giving him an excuse for crackdown. What's the political calculus here? Would he ultimately benefit from a show of force? Given most of the polls are underwater, including one today about his big beautiful bill, most people think it's small and ugly. So does he ultimately benefit or is this an old trick that's not necessary early working?
- [16:48]
Nicole Wallace
I think that he is choosing unpopular things with more popular things right there for the taking. I don't think the shows of force are necessary. At the end of the day, the men and women of the National Guard are patrolling their own streets. That's a terrible story for Trump.
- [17:02]
Kara Swisher
And so why pursue it? I mean, as Long as the stock market is up and inflation stays down, he can more or less do what he wants, presumably around whatever it is, protests, immigration, universities, crypto scams. Although economists say we're likely to see higher inflation this summer. So did Elon Musk, by the way, his friend, his. But so far it's not there yet.
- [17:20]
Nicole Wallace
Well, why? I mean, I think it answers a more important question about who's around him. And I think for people who I was one of them, were constantly critical of the guardrails, people like HR McMaster or Dina Powell or John Kelly, you know, how could they stay? How could they work for someone like that? They were there to keep Trump from escalating with Kim Jong Un, from launching a global trade war, from invoking the Insurrection Act. I mean, I think folks close to Millie and Esper, or Millie and Esper have talked about what they did the last time Trump wanted troops on the street. They told him it was a bad idea. And I think you see that there are no. I mean, it's obvious, but you see the impact or the consequences of not having anyone like Mark Esper or Mark Milley or John Kelly or Don McGahn around Trump.
- [18:05]
Kara Swisher
One of the things I kept saying is people are for deportation for the most part. Not everybody is, but enough people are, but not like this. Or the universities, but not like this, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Or we want better crypto rules, but not like corruption, like that kind of thing. Does that have an effect from your perspective?
- [18:25]
Nicole Wallace
Does it matter politically? We'll see. I mean, I don't think you can get ahead of the story. And so I just don't think we know.
- [18:33]
Kara Swisher
But so far he's had success. He's had success. Have you been surprised by the success?
- [18:38]
Nicole Wallace
Look, I've been surprised by the lack of attention that he seems to pay to the things that he was obsessed with last time. He was obsessed with cable coverage of himself. He was obsessed with New York Times and Washington Post coverage of himself. He was obsessed with the stock market undulating. Now, other than the alarm bells that went off when he threatened to fire Jerome Powell, he doesn't seem to really ride the market highs and lows. And I'm not on X anymore, so I don't see all of the sort of ebbs and flows anymore of MAGA World. But Trump doesn't seem as agitated by press coverage and market twists and turns as he used to. But he does seem to be aware of the political pressure bearing against him. And I think the fight with Musk is an example of that. I mean, he was aware of how. How bad that looked for both of them. They look like assholes.
- [19:29]
Kara Swisher
Meaning what?
- [19:30]
Nicole Wallace
I think, look, in some ways it's a relief. Right? I mean, he used to watch Morning Joe and I used to watch too, just to see what was gonna set him off that day. And I think he probably still watches, but he seems much more focused on self enrichment, unless his story is big enough to get under his skin. And the Elon Musk story looks so bad. The world's richest man, who seemed to indiscriminately cut funds that went to. To programs that kept the poorest people on the planet, the most desperate people on the planet alive. A fight between the two greatest villains that the pro democracy movement's ever seen in this country was a debacle. And he seemed aware of how bad that was. He seemed to try to get into that news cycle in a way that was more reminiscent of his first term. But there don't seem to be a ton of stories like that where he seems to want to try to manage the news cycle in the middle of it.
- [20:20]
Kara Swisher
He did have a reaction to the taco thing, which is interesting, which is y. Now he's gone back again on the immigration thing. So he was. Don't arrest farm workers and hotel workers, hospitality workers. But now he's back to that. So he's. It's a reverse taco, in case you're interested.
- [20:37]
Nicole Wallace
Correct. And I think the relief that I felt when I saw that he was not interested in deporting farm workers. I mean, these are people that work hard from California. Yeah. And they are so central to the economy, not just in California, but all over the country. But he is really at a policy level more erratic than ever. And maybe it's because there's not as much that breaks in terms of investigative journalism. He's doing it all out in the open. He had the crypto investors to the White House. It wasn't. You could imagine that being the kind of thing that the Times or the Post would have uncovered in a first term. Now it's just all out in the open. Maybe there's less that he's trying to hide.
- [21:15]
Kara Swisher
Right, right. But he is a person governed by the last person he's seen. Probably Brooke Rollins, the Agriculture Secretary, got to him. And then Steve Miller got to him again.
- [21:23]
Nicole Wallace
Sure.
- [21:24]
Kara Swisher
Which is what happens. Correct.
- [21:25]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And I mean.
- [21:26]
Kara Swisher
And his instinct is to deport everybody, so it goes to his main instinct.
- [21:30]
Nicole Wallace
But everybody that you don't know and I think it's hard to. I have been amazed by some of the early reporting around individual deportations. Carol in Missouri, in an all red town, in an all red county, in an all red state, Carol's deported. The town goes batshit to get her back. She's been released in Texas. There's some incredible reporting in the New York Times about local businesses who've had their workers deported. And these maggots bubbles inside MAGA states have hated it. And you're in California, where Marines are. I mean, Jacob Severoff has spent the last two days with a Marine who fought for his country and has been in the streets since the ICE raids started, saying, look, I was willing to die for my country. This is not American.
- [22:17]
Kara Swisher
So a couple more political things. So, as we mentioned, Republicans are working on this massive reconciliation bills. And although they're acting like it's not gonna pass, it'll probably pass would be my guess.
- [22:26]
Nicole Wallace
It always does.
- [22:27]
Kara Swisher
It always does. That's exactly right. Like, oh, is Mike Johnson gonna do it? I so. But it does involve kicking millions of people off of Medicaid. In the process, they'll also add nearly $4 trillion to the debt. And experts have been warning that our debt is unsustainable. This is something Elon Musk was upset about, genuinely upset about. How do you look at that story? Because I think that's one that doesn't get. Because many people feel we're at an inflection point in debt, which is something that's dull to look at and not as interesting. You know, it's not easy to tell that story. But how do you look at this bill? Because it's very unpopular right now. Two to one.
- [23:01]
Nicole Wallace
It's very unpop. It's very unpopular. I think at the end of the day, there's nothing Republicans have defied him on. I mean, they confirm Kash Patel and Hegseth with bipartisan opposition.
- [23:13]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. They don't care what the voters think.
- [23:15]
Nicole Wallace
They don't care and they don't care about these institutions. But I think Medicaid might be different. I think the result of this bill, according to CBO, is that 16 million people lose their health insurance. And I think if Bannon had prevailed in sort of the Bannon Musk clash over Trump's soul at the beginning, I don't think this bill would exist, but here we are. And I think that the consequences of this, the political ones, will be felt a little bit in the beginning, but not really until people start suffering and I think Trump is obsessed with, you know, not my voters, you know, or a storm hits or those my voters. There's no way to protect his voters from losing health care. None. And so I think the politics are disastrous in the near term and the long term for Republicans.
- [23:58]
Kara Swisher
In the long term, for sure. Political violence is rising, obviously, is a story you've been working on all week. A Minnesota man killed a state lawmaker and her husband. And before that, two Israeli embassy staffers were killed by a shooter who yelled free Palestine. A man tried to kill Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and his family with an arson attack. He also referenced Gaza. And of course, there were two assassination attempts on President Trump during the campaign. The best way to reduce the risk of violence was for political leaders from opposing parties to make joint appearances where they denounce all political violence and call for respecting the right to protest. And it's unfathomable that Trump would do that. In fact, today he said, why should I call the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz? Essentially he said, he's stupid. I don't wanna talk to him and I could be nice and do it, but I'm not gonna. After the assassination, Senator Mike Lee, a Republican from Utah who's slowly losing his mind or quickly posted his personal X account. This is what happens when Marxists don't get their way. He retweeted Elon Musk who said the far left are murderously violent. This suspect is a Trump supporter. And now the police are saying that he seems to be moated by anti abortion zealotry. Aside from the heinous behavior of likely he's wrong too. Like being inaccurate is also on top of his soulless statements. Talk a little bit about this because this is something that political violence is not a new thing in our country. But it certainly seems we just move on to the next thing once this happens, including the attack on Trump, by.
- [25:22]
Nicole Wallace
The way, it's an atrocity and it's a one party problem. Largely.
- [25:27]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it is.
- [25:28]
Nicole Wallace
When the attempt on Trump's life, there was universal condemnation and relief that he was okay and frankly, praise for how he handled himself in the moment. On the other side, there's what you just described.
- [25:42]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
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Nicole Wallace
With the most.
- [25:43]
Kara Swisher
Were you surprised by that?
- [25:45]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I try not to be surprised. Something happened to him. I remember Senator Lee used to be a normal Republican and he has slowly drifted to something unrecognizable. I mean, he's drifted towards something not purely small d Democratic over the recent years. But this is something, this is a deeper rot. This is in your character. I think if you celebrate the murder of anybody. But I think when it's someone from the other political party, forget about all the damage you do with the sadistic celebration of the violence. Think about the missed opportunity to elevate yourself. It's like, be graceful for 15 minutes. It hurts nobody. It might help you. Republicans like Republicans who are more popular because they're viewed as more powerful. And think about all of the people who say, nah, I'm not gonna sound a grace note. I'd rather just be a dick. And that's what's really disappointing.
- [26:38]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, but would you be. Would John McCain be surprised by this? You spent so much time with him. He was certainly a decent public figure.
- [26:45]
Nicole Wallace
He would have. I don't know if he would have been surprised. I think he had. I think he was so complicated in part because he saw the dark and the light, but I think he would have fought against it.
- [26:56]
Kara Swisher
Is there any room for a John McCain like character in the Republican Party in.
- [27:00]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, they've all left. They've all removed themselves from the arena, either because it hurts too much or it's too dangerous. Mitt Romney might have been the last one. And they've all removed themselves, Liz. They've all removed themselves or been removed by the base of the Republican Party from the arena.
- [27:14]
Kara Swisher
And it. Was it only because of losing. I mean, obviously you were on that campaign. John McCain, by the way, made that point to avoid even the appearance of racism in the 2008.
- [27:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I was standing 10ft away from him. And look, he disagreed with President Obama on the issues that meant the world to him on foreign policy. And it was like a very robust policy debate between two men who were in the same body but believed in very different things. But McCain was the first to rush out at that event. I was sitting 10ft away from him and correct his own supporter when she impugned President Obama's sort of loyalty to the country and the Constitution and his character. And you just can't imagine that happening anymore, can you?
- [28:03]
Kara Swisher
No, not at all. Were you surprised more that he did that or that someone said that?
- [28:09]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think because I had visibility into the things that were happening in Palin's rallies. I wasn't surprised that that was surfacing in the base of the Republican Party and Bush had warned about it. Nativism and isolationism are these isms that are always under the surface and we have to watch out. I think you're always impressed and surprised when someone confronts it at their own event. And I think this is where the Republicans have lost their way. It's become this dysfunctional codependency where the base will tolerate increasingly craven activity. So Mike Lee sends a violent, hateful message after someone's assassinated. It's become a dysfunctional codependency.
- [28:47]
Kara Swisher
Let me ask one last question. You were nominated for a 2025 news and documentary Ma for your series American Autocracy, which aired on Deadline before the presidential election. When you look at that and you were there with Sarah Palin, to me, she is the OG of this, right? Even if she was unsuccessful, she was successful, or the things she was putting out there, it was vaguely violent. It was very folksy. Even though she's a comic figure now, in many ways, if you really look at that, she was that. So when you were saying it could happen here, it feels like it has, right? Or did you see that in the moment when you were her comms person or dealing with her? Did it ever worry? Or you think just this clown is just a clown and that's why she's losing?
- [29:31]
Nicole Wallace
It's funny. I mean, I never thought she was a clown. I thought she was clownish.
- [29:36]
Kara Swisher
She seemed, in the end, clownish.
- [29:38]
Nicole Wallace
She became cartoonish. And I think that the lesson of Palin was that the party fractured in that moment, and we just didn't know it, right? So it fractured right between the top of the ticket and the bottom of the ticket. It was fractured between the nominee for president and the nominee for vice president. And that fracture played out in the campaign. And when you're on a campaign and it's so raw, you think it's about you, but it was really about the cleaving off of the Republican Party from its past, which was. Was embodied by John McCain and his future, which was embodied by Sarah Palin. Now, the fact that Sarah Palin didn't grab the party's future and run with it is all about Sarah Palin. I mean, I think to this day, attack her advisors. Like, I haven't seen her since 08. So, like, she's been free of us for almost 20 years and has never mustered a successful run for anything. But she was. On the night that the election was called for President Obama, she was the rightful heir to the Republican Party. What it had become and where it was heading and in terms of it could happen here was about something a little different. I mean, that was about the Republican Party sort of plunging into something darker than what we thought it was. But the voters obviously thought that was baloney, and they thought that there was maybe nothing darker than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and free trade, that didn't help them. So that might be in the eye of the beholder, but certainly the celebration of someone more, as you said, folksy was where the party was heading. And maybe if she was a man, she would have defeated Donald Trump in a primary. You know, we just weren't. The party wasn't ready to sort of embrace her and elevate her, or she wasn't ready to run to take over the party. But I think that what happens in 08 is the party fractures from its past to its future.
- [31:35]
Kara Swisher
And as the American autocracy. Now, this aired before the presidential election. How are you feeling now? What would it be called now, from your perspective?
- [31:44]
Nicole Wallace
So when I was on maternity leave, I wasn't reading the news every day, and I reread On Tyranny, and I read Ruth Van Guillet's book, and I was like, oh, my God, yeah, all this stuff is happening. And so when I came back, I had a little bit of that perspective, and we had all these autocracy experts on. And what's amazing to me is that Trump has done so many of the things they warned and he didn't have to. I mean, he won and replaced Republicans, swept both houses. So the thing about autocracy is you have to opt into it. You don't stumble into it. A country can stumble into it, but a leader can't. It's harder and less popular. So taking on the universities, destroying scientific research, destroying private law firms, ruling by intimidation, destroying the Department of Justice, taking over the FBI with political sycophants, I mean, these were all things we warned about in this series that starts in, I think it started March 1st of 2024. And then to see him carry all these things out in January 2025, less than a year later, has been stunning to watch. Stunning.
- [32:51]
Kara Swisher
How are you feeling now at this moment? How successful is that something you would warn about?
- [32:56]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think he's been successful at moving the country away from our Democratic norms. And I think it begs the question, what else are you going to leave to the norms? They don't do you any good when you have a wannabe opportunity.
- [33:08]
Kara Swisher
If you were doing that right now, would you say he's going to be successful? Because you can be incompetent and successful. You can also just break up. It could just break up. In terms of the pressures.
- [33:19]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, it goes back to what his mirrors are. Is he looking at the stock market? Does he care about that? Anymore. I don't know. So I don't know. This is where I really. My discipline and mantra is to not get too far ahead of the story. I think the warning was apt. I think he has successfully pursued all the paths that people like Tim Snyder and Ruth and others warned about. And I think the only question is how far does he get?
- [33:45]
Kara Swisher
And from right now, how do you look at it?
- [33:47]
Nicole Wallace
He's made a lot of progress. It's been five months. He's made a lot of progress now. It's resulted in something Rachel focuses on every week and every day when she was anchoring every night. The people are not behind it. They're taking to the streets in historic numbers. But he has successfully moved the country away from democratic norms quickly and efficiently and the only people really pushing back the cords.
- [34:14]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute.
- [34:28]
Charlie Sykes
Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall. You don't have time for self care rituals or getting some fresh, fresh air. So maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back, but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break, a tea break. And you can do that with pure leaf iced tea. Real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and refreshed, revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.
- [35:18]
Kara Swisher
When you open a Corona, you hear the sounds of wherever you are a little differently, a little more Corona.
- [35:31]
Nicole Wallace
And.
- [35:32]
Kara Swisher
You think to yourself, why am I just listening? Corona La Playa awaits. Relax Responsibly Corona Extra beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL. Go from game time to having a good time with Corona Premiere. It's the only lighter than light beer worthy of being called corona. 90 calories, 2.66 carbs and an undeniably crisp, refreshing taste that you can't help but share. Because with Corona Premier, the best play happens off the field. Welcome to the premier side of light Corona Premier Drink responsibly. Corona Premier beer imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois. For 12 fluid ounce serving average analysis, cows, 90 carbs, 2.6 grams protein, 0.7 grams fat, 0.0 grams. All right, let's talk a little bit. Finish up talking about the news business. Trump has been suing the news media, and he's had a lot of success. That's one of the norms. He has done rather well. Disney settled a winnable lawsuit over ABC News. Paramount is in an active settlement discussions with Trump over 60 Minutes. They did nothing wrong in a 60 Minutes lawsuit. Comcast, whom you work for, is planning to spin off its cable TV business along with digital offerings. So MSNBC will have a new corporate parent called Versant. I think they could have tried a little harder for the name. You don't have to comment. What do you think about the ability to withstand the potential pressure? Is that something you're thinking about? And is any publicly owned corporation a strong position to resist? Resist this.
- [36:58]
Nicole Wallace
What's funny is who is it. Is it Romney that says corporations are people?
- [37:03]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah, he did. Yeah.
- [37:05]
Nicole Wallace
Which I thought was a boneheaded political statement, but it's true in this context. We are all only as protected as the people for whom we work. And you and I talked about this before. I mean, I am fortunate to work for someone. And this has been tested. I said something viewed as controversial by the maga. Right. And they came for me in a minute. Trump attacked me in the Oval Office. This was at his sort of political apex. It was in March of this year. And Rebecca Tautler.
- [37:36]
Kara Swisher
Sorry, I don't.
- [37:37]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, it was his address. And he had this lovely young man who wanted to be a cop, and he was a cancer survivor. And it was a beautiful moment. And I sort of mixed up talking about how genuinely beautiful that moment was with a critique of Trump's treatment of the cops, which I shouldn't have mixed the two things. I. I regret doing it, but at the time, Trump and MAGA and the White House went crazy. They attacked me and Rachel, and I worked for a person who protected me, had me on the air feeling confident and as though my company would stand behind me. It's just a long way of saying, I think that I am ill suited to talk about the business side of the industry, but well suited to talk about my own experience coming under fire from Trump and MAGA at my company. And I think you all, there are currents and there are movements and they're all pushing against the media, no doubt. I mean, you can, on one hand, the news organizations that have withstood the pressure, and I think so far, we are one of them. And I would credit the leadership of our company.
- [38:42]
Kara Swisher
But you're now changing. It'll be interesting to see.
- [38:44]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, it'll be. Yeah. And we'll see. We'll see. I mean, we'll see if that makes it harder or easier. I really don't know.
- [38:50]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. I don't work for anybody, so I.
- [38:52]
Nicole Wallace
Right, right, right.
- [38:53]
Kara Swisher
But Carol Swisher is the political pressure. Right.
- [38:56]
Nicole Wallace
And I think that's why you and, I mean, we could count them here. You, the Atlantic, the New York Times, stalwart. Yeah, right. I mean, there's, you can count on one hand the news organizations that have. And it's why independent media is flourishing. I would say this. I am attracted to all of the independent media. I think without Trump, it would still be where all this is going. Megyn Kelly did a. An interview with the New York Times and she was talking about the way the industry is, that if you're. And you're in the same position, that if you have this direct relationship with your viewer, your reader, your consumer, that in a lot of ways that's more pure. And I think that's right.
- [39:37]
Kara Swisher
I think she's right. Just so you know, Megyn Kelly doesn't like Kara Swisher, but at the time.
- [39:40]
Nicole Wallace
That happened, she doesn't like Nicole Wallace either.
- [39:43]
Kara Swisher
Let me just say at the time that happened, she called me and we had drinks and I talked to her about this, of how to do it. And just remember, Megan, I did help you.
- [39:51]
Nicole Wallace
She, I watched her every night at 9:00. I mean, she's one of the best to ever do cable, to ever do the news. And now I don't watch her anymore. But I thought her observations about where the industry are heading. Yeah, we're right.
- [40:08]
Kara Swisher
I think her content is terrible.
- [40:10]
Nicole Wallace
Her content is a confounding choice.
- [40:13]
Kara Swisher
A confounding. You're very nice. I think it's just terrible and angry.
- [40:17]
Nicole Wallace
Really angry, especially at women. She hates us more.
- [40:21]
Kara Swisher
She'll have a show on this soon. So, so good. Great to give you content, Megan, but when you have personality trumping accuracy, this is the way it was going anyway. Is that bad for a civic society? Although having that relationship is a good thing, right. Ultimately?
- [40:36]
Nicole Wallace
Well, it's another thing that depends on norms. Right. You depend on the character of the people that have trust with the audience. And this is, to me, the new moonshot. How do you make the content that goes around the world in a nanosecond, the content that doesn't tear the society apart?
- [40:51]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [40:52]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, you tell me, how do you do that?
- [40:54]
Kara Swisher
Well, you can go either way. It works both ways. If you do it well, it can work. It's worked for Me. But you can also be screamy. And it works. It also works because those are the people that want to. You know, it's like people who are in good relationships and bad. You know, lots of people in bad marriages, they work just fine. Right. Or they happen. But one of the things that screamy does work a little better, I Suspect, because, look, MSNBC's total viewership is down from May 2024, 33%. CNN's numbers have SL. Fox is up because they have a very committed group audience who likes this. Although Tucker Carlson just insulted them today. That was interesting saying this.
- [41:28]
Nicole Wallace
Why is he mad?
- [41:29]
Kara Swisher
He said it's manipulation for older people. I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. I have a mother. I know all about this for a long time. But during Trump's first term, news organizations saw a Trump bump. This time around, you're seeing the reverse. You've been on TV now for 10 years through these two things. What do you think will re engage?
- [41:48]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, I think. I think news engagement is up. I just think there are some. I just think it's spread out over more. I bet more people are paying attention and I bet more on social media. Right. On social. I'm listening to podcasts. I think that there are people that are getting their news from just you and not also watching you on CNN or just getting their news from the Bulwark podcast. They're not also watching. I think news consumption is probably at the same level or up. I just think it's spread out and I don't know. I don't think that's a bad thing.
- [42:21]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. It's actually spread out. It's just they're getting it in different ways. And then you have to re. Engage them in certain ways.
- [42:28]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And be in different ways. And I think, you know, that's why I'm here. That's why there's a podcast. And I think that even during the Bush years, which feels like forever ago, and there was no Twitter, but the late night shows were so. I mean, Letterman drove public opinion as powerfully as NBC Nightly News or the.
- [42:50]
Kara Swisher
SNL skit on Palin, you were right in the middle of that. You were there right after it happened.
- [42:54]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, God, yes. I can see Russia from my house.
- [42:57]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. What did you think when you saw that? Oh, it's so great.
- [43:00]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I think whenever someone's using. Well, So, I mean, SNL, I worked for the Bushes. Who Bush 41 was dear, dear friends with Dana Carvey. I mean, there was a reason. Affinity for the And Will Ferrell had played w. And there was a real appreciation for the role of humor. I think Trump might be our first president who's enraged by all of it.
- [43:23]
Kara Swisher
Right, right. Palin was enraged, but they got her.
- [43:26]
Nicole Wallace
Palin was enraged. Yeah.
- [43:27]
Kara Swisher
You must have been, like, nailed it.
- [43:30]
Nicole Wallace
Well, it was. So there's just nothing left to say when they're using their own words. You're done.
- [43:35]
Kara Swisher
Right. So every episode, we get an expert to send us a question for our guest. Let's hear yours. Hi, this is Charlie Sykes. My question is this. How do we not become our own echo chamber? Do you worry that we. I mean, msnbc, this podcast, my podcast, are simply preaching to the converted? And if so, how do we break out of that silo to make sure that the people who will decide the next few elections get the information and the truth that they need to hear? Thanks. That's a good question.
- [44:05]
Nicole Wallace
He's so smart. Too smart. I think that's. That echo chamber is another word for community. And I actually think you have to lean into your community, and I think that you have to make your echo chamber, your community, more inviting. Like a baseball game you can order from your seat or like a spa. I just think you have to make your community more appealing, and you have to reach out and invite more people into it. I also think you should go visit other people's echo chambers. I don't think they should be so. I think they should be more porous. And so I think that echo chambers get a bad rap, But I actually think they're communities that people form to make sense of the world, and they have social implications, and I think they give people a lot of comfort. I think they became more hardened after Covid, when people were really isolated, and so their echo chambers became their communities online. And I think we have to break down some of the virtual elements to them, I think. I mean, you do a lot of live events. I think we should all be doing that. And I think we just have to make our change or our communities more inviting, pull more people in and visit other people's. Because I think the chamber itself is a comfort to some people, and it's probably a better use of our time to visit others.
- [45:22]
Kara Swisher
Absolutely.
- [45:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Bring a pie. Bring a ham.
- [45:26]
Kara Swisher
Bring a ham. I had a surprisingly interesting interview with Sarah McBride, who I think is de centering her trans status very well. It's really interesting. And one of the things she said was, we have to embrace imperfect allies, which I thought was exactly right. And she wants to talk. She says, I represent all the people of Delaware and they're different. So I'm not gonna center myself. This is just stupid for me to. Cause I don't work for me, I work for them, which was interesting.
- [45:52]
Nicole Wallace
And you talk to anyone under 20 and the whole fixation with identity is not where their heads are. No, they're soccer players, they're musicians, they're band members, and they include gay, straight, trans. You know, I mean, that de centering is also how the next generation views identity. It's almost a radical of our politics to get wrapped around stuff like that.
- [46:12]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I think it's quite effective, actually. Decenter. And the fact that she was doing it, who they try to drag into fight with Nancy Mays, she's like, I won't be doing that today. She doesn't take the bait ever. Which is really very strong. But in that vein, I have just two more questions. A lot of young people, as you said, are getting political filtered, say young men, especially through the manosphere social media feeds. Although that's changing. Several of them are turning on Trump, by the way. Today one of the more prominent ones turned on Trump again. Rogan seems to be in his slow headed way, moving that way. But they're not journalism necessarily. So put your political communications operative hat on. How do Democrats reach out to those voters or people that do not want an autocracy? How do you do that from your perspective?
- [46:54]
Nicole Wallace
Well, this is where I know I can speak with experience about everything that's happened to the Republican Party. The Republicans have said more awful things about Donald Trump than I've ever said on my show in nine years. You know, J.D. vance called him America's Hitler.
- [47:10]
Kara Swisher
I was at an event where he dinner where he did it. To me, it was like, calm down.
- [47:14]
Nicole Wallace
So it's like I understand what the Republicans have done to themselves. I don't understand the Democratic Party that way. I have voted with them enthusiastically in 16, 20 and 24, and I can't imagine supporting a Republican because the Republican Party has moved away from small D democracy. So I resist giving Democrats any advice. I am sort of a guest in their coalition because they are on the side of the democracy and there isn't another pro democracy democracy game in town. I am surprised that this is hard though, because I think if you're a normal person who lives a normal life, who's at the grocery store and there are some that are very good at this. I mean, I think Pete Buttigieg is very good at this. I think Amy Klobuchar is good at This. I think Gavin Newsom has had a very easy time communicating what is wrong with disappearing people off the streets and deploying the National Guard. I think they need to just do. And I think that people rail against consultants. I mean, consultants aren't the whole problem, but if you're relying on them to figure out how to just do, that's the problem. And you have to be everywhere. They should be everywhere. They should be in every podcast that will have them. Because to your point, if you win, you're going to represent everyone. I talked to folks close to Obama after the election, and they reminded me that Obama had immigration protesters outside the White House every day for eight years, and they only left when Trump won. I mean, you have to figure out how to appeal and excite a majority of the electorate and win before you can make policy, policies that are better than the ones that your opponent is pushing. And I think that the Democrats have. They've not come up way short, but they've come up short enough to, you know, to lose twice.
- [48:52]
Kara Swisher
Who's the most interesting character of that side for you that you're like, on the Democratic side?
- [48:59]
Nicole Wallace
It's funny, there are a lot that I'm not that interested in talking to when they call, and they're like, so and so is free. I'm like, I think I'd rather talk to Tim Miller. But look, I think that Josh Shapiro is a very interesting governor. Right. Like, I don't know that he's interested in stepping into the national political debate every day, but he's been and he won, I think, with the biggest bipartisan majorities in Pennsylvania, which is a big swing state. I think swing state elected officials are very interesting. Yeah. I mean, swing state elected Democrats have won. People that pick Trump. Trump twice, two or three times. Right. So I think Whitmer is interesting. I think Shapiro is interesting. And I find them more interesting than politicians from reliably blue states because they.
- [49:47]
Kara Swisher
Do centrist complaint on the law.
- [49:49]
Nicole Wallace
It's not even centrist. It's just. It's more about the governing. I mean, I think the stuff Shapiro did of just getting the bridge back, People in their lives view partisanship as a luxury in their lives. They want to be able to afford housing, school, higher education, if that's their kid's dream baseball uniform. I mean, it's why they're sort of.
- [50:08]
Kara Swisher
The Rahm Emanuel message right now, which is interesting. I saw Laura Kelly, who doesn't get as much attention at an event, and she said on her signs, someone's asking her it was a donor. And she said, I don't put my Democrat on my signs. And I also use red because I like the color red. And so they only know me as Laura Kelly. They don't know me as anything else. And I.
- [50:30]
Nicole Wallace
And I thought, huh, that's smart.
- [50:31]
Kara Swisher
You smart grandma. Cause she does the whole grandma thing. I'm like, oh, no, Grandma.
- [50:35]
Nicole Wallace
I love that.
- [50:36]
Kara Swisher
Grandma's a little bit mag, of course, uses partisanship as a cudgel. That's their game, their move there. All right, let's end by circling back to your new podcast, the Best People. In it, you ask guests to share lessons that listeners can use. So I'll ask you the same thing. We spent the last hour talking about some bleak circumstances that we're in, something you've reported on and done many shows on. For people who care about democracy and truth but feel overwhelmed. What's your advice? And how can they stay engaged without burning out?
- [51:09]
Nicole Wallace
I tell everybody, and I try to do this myself, to just stay close to your people, you know, check in on all your people. Everyone in our own orbits is going through something with a sick parent or a kid that's struggling or. Or a difficult transition, either kid going off to college. So just take care of your people. And then if you can sort of be sunshine to somebody or be the person that checks in with everybody, taking care of the things you can control is, to me what has been advice that I was given and that I give out and that I try to practice every day to make everything else feel less overwhelming.
- [51:51]
Kara Swisher
Overwhelming. And the feeling of overwhelming is I'm a little more tough love than whenever they want.
- [51:57]
Nicole Wallace
That's why. That's why you're gonna raise all the children.
- [51:59]
Kara Swisher
You know, Like, I know when you said, it could happen here, I'm like, it won't happen here. Stop it.
- [52:04]
Nicole Wallace
Just stop it.
- [52:05]
Kara Swisher
Like, stop whining and get.
- [52:06]
Nicole Wallace
I think that's right. I think it won't happen here, but.
- [52:08]
Kara Swisher
I think this is America.
- [52:10]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And I think it's. It's too big. And I think people are like, oh, come on. We don't want that. You know, we wanted Trump. We wanted the gold toilet and the hot wife and the, you know, I don't know, whatever else they think he had, but I don't think it'll happen here. But I do think we have to be vigilant. We don't have any more time to mess around.
- [52:26]
Kara Swisher
Right. Right. I'm often struck by. I'm always like, when people say, you're gonna leave America. I was like, why would I? It's my country.
- [52:32]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I'm not leaving.
- [52:33]
Kara Swisher
I'm not leaving. I used to argue with right wing people when they were talking about the elite. Visit Kansas or wherever. You know, that whole. That whole trope that was going on. I'm like, I've never seen anyone from Kansas in the Castro. They should come in, meet me. Like, why am I not normal either?
- [52:51]
Nicole Wallace
Well, which is. But the funny thing is, I mean, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area. There were tourists from all over the world there all the time. I live in New York. There are people from all over the. I mean, I see MAGA hats in Manhattan periodically. Not all the time, but the people in this country. I mean, this is the other thing with the podcast. I think it's a mistake to cleave politics out of our life and just put politics on one network 20 hours a day. I think politics in people's lives. If you're at a baseball game and you're watching the game and you're talking about, hey, where did you get catcher's gear? It was 20% more at dicks. And, oh, my God, did you see the sign there? I mean, people talk about politics in the context of all the other stuff. And so I think there is something false and indulgent about the way we do political news. And I don't know how to fix this, but I do understand why people are going to podcasts and going to places where it isn't all politics all the time.
- [53:48]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Well, welcome. You'll like it a lot. Absolutely.
- [53:52]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you for the warm up. Thank you for the support and the welcome.
- [53:55]
Kara Swisher
Anything, anything you need. I'm not going to help Megyn Kelly anymore, but I'm happy to help you.
- [54:00]
Nicole Wallace
I think she did. You're right about the content. I think she did something mean about me and Rachel on my first podcast. I think she. I don't. I don't. I don't know how to find her, but I'm sure it's there.
- [54:09]
Kara Swisher
Win by. Win by winning. That's what I say. Win by winning.
- [54:13]
Nicole Wallace
Be nice.
- [54:14]
Kara Swisher
You don't have to be nice. Nice. You're nice. I'm not so nice. Anyway, thank you so much. As usual, you're fantastic and we really. I like talking to you.
- [54:24]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you so much.
- [54:30]
Kara Swisher
On with Kara Swisher is produced by Kristen Castro Russell, Kateri Yocum, Megan Burney, Allison Rogers and Kalyn Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Special thanks to Eamon Whelan. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, Megan Kelly will take you out to drinks. She owes me one for goodness sake. If not, she'll attack you on her podcast. And thanks for that, Megan. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit Follow. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at on with Kara Swisher. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.
- [55:22]
Charlie Sykes
Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced Tea. It's real brewed tea made in a fruit variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced Tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf. Nobody knows your customers better than your team, so give them the power to make standout content with Adobe Brand kits make following design rules a breeze and Adobe quality templates make it easy to create pro looking flyers, social posts, presentations and more. You don't have to be a designer to edit campaigns, resize ads, and translate content. Anyone can in a click and collaboration tools put feedback right where you need it. See how you can turn your team into a content machine with Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn more@adobe.com Express Business.
- [56:32]
Kara Swisher
Thanks to Smartsheet for their support. No matter the challenge your team is trying to solve, no matter the innovation you're working to achieve, every team needs tools to help their workflow. Smartsheet is the innovative work management platform that allows teams to remove distractions, collaborate across projects, and efficiently solve whatever challenges come come their way. Real, innovative work needs a place to flourish and smartsheet is that place. Smartsheet Work with flow learn more@smartsheet.com Vox.