Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher

Episode: Pete Buttigieg on Biden, Trump, Gaza, and His 2028 Presidential Plans

Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Pete Buttigieg, former US Secretary of Transportation, former Mayor of South Bend, 2020 and likely 2028 Democratic presidential candidate

Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging live interview with Pete Buttigieg at the University of Michigan’s Ford School of Public Policy. Kara Swisher and Buttigieg explore the fractures and future of the Democratic Party post-2024, political violence in America, Big Tech’s relationship with politics, the Israeli-Gaza war, gerrymandering, and Buttigieg's own presidential ambitions for 2028. Throughout, Buttigieg balances humor and self-deprecation with pointed critiques and policy insights, frequently addressing tough questions around political courage, party credibility, and the challenge of leading a divided nation.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Violence & America’s State of Mind

• On Charlie Kirk's Assassination ([05:01])
  • Buttigieg emphasizes bipartisan condemnation for the killing, with leaders from both parties showing rare unity.
  • “A man was killed, a family was robbed of a father…that should never have happened…that’s the only sane place to begin.” — Pete Buttigieg ([05:41])
• White House & Republican Leadership Response ([08:01])
  • Buttigieg criticizes what he sees as partisan posturing, especially from Trump and Vance, who he argues are seeking to advance power rather than unify.
  • “Everything [this president] does is about consolidating his own power.” ([10:38])
• Liberal & Conservative Violence ([09:03])
  • Buttigieg points out how left-of-center figures have also been targets (eg. Melissa Hortman killed by a nationalist).
  • Swisher and Buttigieg discuss the selective application of "cancel culture" and how it undermines political consistency.

2. Social Media’s Role in Division and Violence

• Responsibility & Regulation ([13:02])
  • Buttigieg acknowledges both corporate and individual responsibilities, drawing an analogy to the fight against tobacco.
  • He points to unusual bipartisan support for social media regulation, but notes such consensus is largely driven by harm to children, not political dysfunction.
  • “We have some level of agency...what are all the things we could be doing at the same time that would make a difference?” — Pete Buttigieg ([13:02])
• Tech’s Political Alignments ([16:45], [18:10])
  • Swisher challenges Buttigieg: why have Silicon Valley leaders shifted from antipathy to Biden’s administration to support for Trump?
  • Buttigieg frames it as business self-interest overtaking commitment to civil freedoms and warns tech leaders they are “riding a tiger that sooner or later will eat you too.” ([18:41])

3. Threats to Liberal Democracy & Government Crackdowns

• Buttigieg expresses concern that the pretext of fighting "terror" on the American left could be weaponized against dissent, comparing it to crackdowns in Russia ([21:03]).
• He worries Americans don’t understand their own power to resist authoritarian moves—“Nobody's going to just come down and tell us, hey, you just had an authoritarian breakthrough. It's underway.” ([22:19])

4. The Democratic Party’s Crisis of Credibility

• Biden’s 2024 Run & Democratic Frustration ([27:22])
  • Swisher presses Buttigieg on why Democrats waited so long to challenge Biden’s decision to run.
  • Buttigieg insists Cabinet members weren’t consulted and were focused on beating Trump: "Not hard for me to know not just who I was going to vote for, but who I was going to do everything in my power to make sure won." ([28:45])
• Kamala Harris & The Mini-Primary ([31:57])
  • Guest question from Joe Manchin: Should there have been a short primary after Biden’s withdrawal?
  • Buttigieg: "In hindsight…had we invested those 30 days…[Harris] would have done so after consolidating the party. And had she been unable to do that…there would have been a stronger nominee." ([32:22])
• Democratic Cautiousness & Risk ([33:21])
  • Swisher critiques the party’s fecklessness; Buttigieg acknowledges many Democrats are risk-averse, but he personally embraces risk in engaging non-traditional venues (i.e., Fox News, hostile podcasts).

5. Gaza, Israel, and the Democratic Base Divide

• Evolving Policy Positions ([35:06])
  • Buttigieg clarifies support for recognizing a Palestinian state only as part of a credible two-state solution, endorses limiting US offensive weapons to Israel, and questions future military MOUs.
• What Would Stop Support for Israel? ([37:35])
  • He condemns “atrocities in Gaza” and is explicit: “We’re not going to let the Netanyahu government take American dollars [...] and use it to, for example, use starvation as a tool of war. This is wrong.” ([41:39])
  • On genocide: “I'm not going to jump into that semantic fight ... The important thing is that the killing must stop.” ([38:01])
• Winning Disenchanted Voters ([40:35])
  • Buttigieg says Democrats must frankly address the messy collision of truths regarding Gaza, listening to young and Arab voters, and follow Israel’s own candid internal debates.

6. Government Shutdown & Congressional Response

• Shutdown Politics ([44:43])
  • Buttigieg: “If there is a shutdown, it will be because of Donald Trump and the Republicans... Not one to be taken lightly [because of] how many people will be hurt.”
  • He warns that Democrats shouldn’t expect Republicans will be easily blamed; GOP is effective at shifting blame due to media dominance.

7. Gerrymandering and Democratic Strategies

• Buttigieg calls the current state of gerrymandering "terrible" ([48:05]) and labels explicit Republican efforts in Indiana as “contempt for the voter.”
• He supports Democrats using every available tool, including partisan redistricting when necessary, but stresses the need for comprehensive reform: “Fewer than 1 in 10 [House districts] are competitive in a country that’s basically 50-50. That is nuts.” ([50:09])

8. Mayoral Races and the Importance of Respecting Voters

• Buttigieg distances himself from becoming formally involved in the New York City mayoral race, but says, “It’s not close” who he prefers compared to Cuomo and Adams, while praising Zoran’s focus on affordability and campaign tactics. ([55:03])

9. 2028 Presidential Ambitions

• Will He Run? ([59:33])
  • Swisher: “Does that mean you’re gonna run for president again in 2028?”
  • Buttigieg: “I don’t know.”
  • Swisher pushes: “That's not very long.”
  • Buttigieg: “Have you lived through the last nine months? Long.”
  • [Both laugh]
• Other Potential Democratic Candidates ([60:46])
  • He names rising Democratic leaders: Andy Kim, Alyssa Slotkin, Pat Ryan, Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, and Gabe Vasquez, but avoids listing top-tier 2028 contenders.
  • Swisher teases his reluctance to discuss likely competitors.

10. LGBTQ+ Identity and Right-wing Attacks

• Responding to Tucker Carlson’s “fake gay guy” smear ([63:35]):
  • Buttigieg: “First of all, I do not think I want to discuss anything with Tucker Carlson... I cannot think of a topic I would like to discuss less with Tucker Carlson than [gay sex].”
  • “I suppose it’s a sign of progress that their idea of a conspiracy is that I’m actually secretly straight.” ([64:40])

11. Rebuilding American Government & Institutions

• Buttigieg sees opportunity for fundamental reform in government post-Trump ([65:44]):
  • “If we’re going to have to start over, not it’s not okay that we do, but...there is an opportunity…to build a different way of doing things, socially, economically, politically, that actually supports your ability to live a life of your choosing and to have a good life."
• On priorities: “We should totally do [end the Electoral College, expand the Supreme Court, and end gerrymandering]. But...if we had to pick one, something that corrects the harm of Citizens United...” ([68:12])
• He endorses constitutional amendments as overdue and essential to American adaptability.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Everything [Trump] does is about consolidating his own power.” — Pete Buttigieg ([10:38])
• “Turns out they're against cancel culture selectively, which you just can't be. In the same way that you can't be against violence selectively. It's either right or it's wrong.” — Buttigieg ([12:14])
• “You're riding a tiger that sooner or later will eat you too.” — Buttigieg to Silicon Valley ([18:41])
• Swisher: “Do you think you're risk averse?” Buttigieg: “I think I'm less risk averse about that than others who wouldn't do [long-form podcasts].” ([35:00])
• On Gaza and Israel: "The next president needs to be more willing [than ever] to tell Israel: 'No, we won’t subsidize just anything.'" ([41:39])
• On talking to Tucker Carlson: "I do not think I want to discuss anything with Tucker Carlson. I cannot think of a topic I would like to discuss less ... Even though I admit some ... curiosity as to what in the hell he thinks his ... no, actually, no." ([64:07])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Political Violence & Trump’s Power: 04:58–12:24
• Social Media’s Role: 12:24–16:45
• Tech and Trump: 16:45–20:33
• Authoritarianism Fears: 20:33–22:48
• Democratic Party’s Credibility & Biden’s Withdrawal: 27:22–33:21
• Gaza & Israel Policy: 35:06–44:39
• Government Shutdown Scenario: 44:39–47:22
• Gerrymandering & Election Strategy: 47:22–50:46
• NYC Mayor Race & Voter Respect: 54:21–58:34
• 2028 Presidential Plans & Party Leadership: 59:17–63:35
• LGBTQ Attacks by Right-wing Media: 63:35–64:51
• Rebuilding Government Institutions: 65:24–69:14

Conclusion

Through incisive questioning and honest reflection, Kara Swisher and Pete Buttigieg dissect the perils and opportunities facing Democrats, the threats to American institutions, and the tension between idealism and realpolitik. Buttigieg walks a line between candid criticism—of his own party and of the Republicans—and strategic optimism, emphasizing the need for both courage and structural reform if the US is to recover and thrive post-Trump.