Podcast Summary: "Put Your Phone Away: Yondr CEO on the Philosophy Behind Phone-Free Spaces"

Podcast Information:

• Title: On with Kara Swisher
• Host: Kara Swisher, Vox Media
• Episode: "Put Your Phone Away: Yondr CEO on the Philosophy Behind Phone-Free Spaces"
• Release Date: January 16, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of "On with Kara Swisher," award-winning journalist Kara Swisher delves into the pervasive issue of smartphone addiction and its societal impacts. Swisher is joined by Graham De Goney, the founder and CEO of Yondr, a company pioneering phone-free solutions through innovative pouches designed to lock away smartphones, ensuring they remain inaccessible during events such as concerts and within educational environments. The discussion explores the philosophical underpinnings, practical implementations, and future visions of creating phone-free spaces.

Origins of Yondr and Initial Motivations

Graham De Goney recounts the pivotal moment that inspired him to start Yondr. While attending a music festival in San Francisco in 2012, he observed someone recording a drunk individual without their consent:

[04:12] Graham De Goney: "I saw someone recording someone who was drunk and dancing, and they were posting it to the Internet without their knowledge. That was a crystallizing moment..."

This incident highlighted the growing privacy concerns exacerbated by ubiquitous smartphone use. De Goney's philosophical exploration of technology, influenced by thinkers like Kierkegaard and Heidegger, led him to envision a solution that counters the unintended consequences of constant connectivity.

Philosophy Behind Phone-Free Spaces

The conversation transitions to Yondr's core philosophy: creating spaces where individuals can engage without the distractions and invasions of privacy that smartphones often bring. De Goney emphasizes the need for constructive adaptation to technology rather than outright rejection:

[06:02] Graham De Goney: "It's about how we are going to move constructively into the future and incorporate these tools..."

He likens phone-free spaces to national parks within society, providing sanctuaries where people can experience life unmediated by digital devices.

Implementation in Schools and Concerts

Yondr's Pouches: The pouches produced by Yondr are designed to be user-friendly and secure. Users retain possession of their phones, which are locked in the pouch and can be unlocked at designated exit points using a proprietary magnetic key.

[08:11] Graham De Goney: "It's about meeting people where they're at and not trying to impose a punitive system."

Funding and Growth: De Goney shares the humble beginnings of Yondr, including personal financial sacrifices like selling his car to fund prototypes. Early adopters included educators and artists who recognized the value of undistracted audiences. Notably, comedian Dave Chappelle became an early investor, understanding the importance of a fully engaged audience for performance art.

[10:30] Graham De Goney: "Dave Chappelle came on as an investor. He understood the value for his art form..."

Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic

The pandemic presented both challenges and opportunities for Yondr. Initial disruptions led to a company-wide reset, but De Goney anticipated a surge in demand as schools and concert venues sought to reintegrate phone-free policies post-pandemic. The heightened awareness of online interactions during lockdowns underscored the need for such solutions.

[14:39] Graham De Goney: "As schools opened up, we had a huge inflow from parents and teachers concerned about increased online interactions."

Adoption and Policy in Educational Institutions

With over 19 states implementing phone bans or restrictions in schools, Yondr has become a cornerstone in educational policy development. De Goney explains that successful implementation requires a holistic approach, addressing not just the classroom but the entire school environment to sustain phone-free practices.

[24:45] Graham De Goney: "It's about taking a holistic approach to give benefits not just to students, but also to teachers..."

Cost and Accessibility: Schools invest approximately $30 per student for the Yondr program, which covers the pouches, setup, and ongoing support. By treating pouches like textbooks, schools ensure accessibility and continuity.

[25:05] Graham De Goney: "It's a purchase, not a recurring cost, and schools often buy a little extra to account for wear and tear."

Research and Outcomes

Yondr recently released a white paper demonstrating significant improvements in academic performance and reduction in behavioral issues among schools adopting phone-free policies. Anecdotal evidence from teachers corroborates these findings, with reports of decreased distractions, fewer fights, and enhanced teacher retention.

[27:17] Graham De Goney: "We've seen reductions in behavioral issues by up to 50% within weeks of implementation."

Additionally, surveys indicate that students, initially resistant, often grow to appreciate the phone-free environment, citing reduced anxiety and greater presence.

[28:14] Graham De Goney: "Students who initially didn't like it admit privately that they enjoy being in a phone-free school and feel less anxious."

Addressing Parental and Safety Concerns

Parental resistance has evolved as the cultural zeitgeist shifts towards recognizing the drawbacks of constant connectivity. De Goney discusses strategies to mitigate fears, particularly regarding safety during emergencies. Highlighting that students retain possession of their phones, Yondr ensures that devices can be accessed even in lockdowns or evacuations through structured unlocking mechanisms.

[31:07] Graham De Goney: "Students can unlock their phones in case of emergencies, and districts communicate these plans clearly to parents."

Challenges: Circumventing the Pouches

Despite Yondr's robust design, some students attempt to bypass restrictions by concealing phones or using alternative devices. De Goney acknowledges these challenges and emphasizes the importance of social pressure and community adherence to maintain the integrity of phone-free spaces.

[38:24] Graham De Goney: "We're moving quickly to improve the product's security, but social psychology plays a crucial role in encouraging compliance."

Expert Questions and Insights

Dr. Shamice Taylor's Question:

"How does Yondr balance the need for limiting distractions in schools with the importance of teaching students responsible and mindful technology use?"
De Goney's Response:
He underscores the importance of breaking physiological ties with constant phone use by creating physical separation through pouches. This method helps interrupt habitual phone-checking impulses, fostering new, healthier habits without brute prohibition.

Jonathan Haidt's Question:

"Yonder pouches clearly work, but some kids find ways to circumvent them. What is Yonder doing to improve security going forward?"
De Goney's Response:
He acknowledges the ingenuity of students in finding workarounds and explains that Yondr is continuously enhancing pouch durability and design. Additionally, fostering a culture of respect and collective responsibility is pivotal in reducing attempts to bypass restrictions.

Future Vision and Philosophical Reflections

De Goney shares his vision for a society where phone-free spaces become normalized across various environments, not just schools and concerts. He advocates for a cultural shift towards valuing focal activities—engagements that require physical presence and critical thinking, such as biking, gardening, and hiking.

[54:58] Graham De Goney: "We need to shift towards activities where the process is bound up with their meaning, grounding people in their lives."

He expresses skepticism towards the relentless pursuit of seamless technology, which he believes detracts from meaningful human interactions and critical faculties.

[55:04] Graham De Goney: "Making everything so easy violates human nature and doesn't contribute to genuine fulfillment."

Confronting Tech Industry Power

Addressing the immense influence of tech giants like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, De Goney emphasizes that Yondr's mission is not to confront these entities directly but to empower individuals and communities to make conscious choices about their technology use.

[56:56] Graham De Goney: "It's about giving people the choice to control their time and how their minds think, rather than being passive consumers of technology."

He envisions a future where cultural values prioritize simplicity, nature, and meaningful interactions over convenience and constant connectivity.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with De Goney's appreciation for the dialogue and the critical role of phone-free spaces in fostering healthier, more engaged communities. Kara Swisher underscores the broader implications of Yondr's work in shaping societal norms around technology use.

[58:27] Graham De Goney: "Thank you, Kara. I really enjoyed it."

Key Takeaways

• Privacy and Presence: Yondr's pouches aim to restore privacy and genuine presence in environments overwhelmed by smartphone use.
• Holistic Implementation: Successful phone-free policies require comprehensive strategies that encompass the entire environment, not just isolated settings.
• Cultural Shift: Encouraging societal values that prioritize meaningful interactions and critical thinking over constant connectivity.
• Continuous Improvement: Addressing challenges such as circumventing measures through product enhancements and fostering a culture of respect.
• Philosophical Basis: Grounding technological solutions in deep philosophical insights to navigate the complex relationship between humans and technology.

Notable Quotes:

• Graham De Goney [04:19]: "If you follow that, that line of thinking all the way through, I realized that it bumped up really strongly against this tech idea that everything was going to become more connected everywhere, all the time."
• Graham De Goney [06:02]: "It's about how we are going to move constructively into the future and incorporate these tools."
• Graham De Goney [27:17]: "We've seen reductions in behavioral issues by up to 50% within weeks of implementation."
• Graham De Goney [54:58]: "We need to shift towards activities where the process is bound up with their meaning, grounding people in their lives."
• Graham De Goney [56:56]: "It's about giving people the choice to control their time and how their minds think."

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the challenges and solutions surrounding smartphone use in society, highlighting Yondr's innovative approach to fostering phone-free environments and promoting healthier human interactions.